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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#739: Doing Gen Z marketing right with Smita Wadhawan, Constant Contact
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VRBoCare/Strayer University Advertiser
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Liberty Mutual Advertiser
the Agile Brand.
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Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand, where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce, and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show Is your brand's marketing strategy feeling a little seasoned? In today's social media landscape, clinging to outdated tactics can mean clinging to what
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Co-host/Interviewer
was hot just last week. If you feel like it's time to
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Greg Kilstrom
inject some youthful energy into your approach,
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Co-host/Interviewer
how do you do it authentically?
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Greg Kilstrom
Agility requires a willingness to experiment, to learn, and to adapt quickly. It also demands a deep understanding of your audience and the platforms they engage with. Today we're going to talk about how SMBs can capture the lightning in a bottle energy of Gen Z marketing without looking like they're trying too hard. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Smita Vadawan, CMO at Constant Contact. Smita, welcome to the show.
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Smita Vadawan
Thank you. I appreciate being on the show. Looking forward to the conversation.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah, me too. Definitely looking forward to this topic. Before we dive in though, why don't
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Greg Kilstrom
you give a little background on yourself and your role at Constant Contact?
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Smita Vadawan
Absolutely happy to do that, I run marketing for Constant Contact. I've been in my role for two months. Before that, I was running marketing for a health tech company. Simple practice in between. I did have a stint at a sustainability company as well, but pretty much my entire background has been in tech marketing. The common thread was small business and consumer. A lot of it was small business. So Constant Contact is a perfect place where the marketing that we do actually helps small business owners market to their audiences. That's certainly some of the things that I'm really passionate about. So really, really looking forward to sharing some great tips with our small business owners today.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Great. Great.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Co-host/Interviewer
And so we're definitely going to talk about reaching and authentically reaching some of those audiences. And I want to start with one of the things I touched on in the intro and that's really authentically reaching and understanding the Gen Z approach. From your standpoint, what are some key elements that make Gen Z created content feel so native to platforms like TikTok and Instagram? You know, what are they doing differently than previous generations of marketers?
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Smita Vadawan
Yep. And as a, as a parent of a Gen Z, I can certainly tell you that authenticity is the way they think. They are all about platform first, original and garnished content as opposed to polished content. So I think one of the things that I've noticed as a pattern why Gen Z is creating more authentic content and doing it much differently than generations prior is because they're thinking platform first. They are thinking about who their core audience is, who are they reaching, and they are talking in a very human, first engaging style. They are not necessarily coming from the angle of marketing, which is why the content is so engaging, because it is coming from a true place of connection and true place of offering value to who they are going after. And to me as a marketer, that's what makes them stand out versus the previous generation.
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Co-host/Interviewer
And just to clarify there, when you say platform first, I mean to me that means really just focusing on the content that's going to be most engaging within. You know, like so TikTok, for instance, it's like really thinking about what the platform offers as well as what the users are looking for on it. Is that what you're meaning?
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Smita Vadawan
That's right. I mean, first and foremost, I think it's important to understand that when users are on a platform, they are seeking information, they're seeking something of value. So understanding and coming from a place of providing what they are seeking is the recipe that seems to be working well. So the idea is, let's give the audience what they are looking for versus trying to sell them something.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. And so, you know, beyond trends, you know, there's some things that we know work, you know, short form video, humor. What are some of the more nuanced aspects of Gen Z's content creation style that businesses should be paying attention to?
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Smita Vadawan
Yep. I would, I would say a few patterns that we notice with this. The generation is. There is definitely the unvarnished approach which makes it really human. Whereas if you think about a lot of brands, the way we are used to doing marketing is we believe in perfectly curated marketing and perfectly curated advertising. Whereas if you think about the way Gen Z approaches these channels, it is about authentic storytelling, it's about engagement. The other thing that is they're really big on is they truly understand the audience. They involve the audience a lot more. Even if you look at creators on some of these platforms, they are seeking feedback from the audiences. They are doing constant polls and surveys. When they have merch drops, they are engaging the audience and deciding what time should the merch drop be. So it's the most effective. So I would say just co creating and keeping your audience context and listening to your audience, responding to your audience on social media channels in a very authentic way creates that connection. And it doesn't feel like it's a brand to, it's a brand doing marketing. It feels like it's a very authentic way of connecting with your audience.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah. And of course this is sometimes easier said than done. Right. I mean you can, a brand can spend effort and time doing something that seems authentic and yet it's, there's the fine line, in other words, between authenticity and imitation. Right. How can small businesses, or really any brand, but you know, how can small businesses find that balance between embracing trends and maintaining their own authenticity? And again, you know, just trying to, trying to balance that line between imitation, inspiration, things like that.
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Smita Vadawan
Yeah, no, great question. It is very easy to hop onto the next trend and feel unless you, you know, it's like you feel like you're missing out if you don't do that. I think to your point, the, the idea is that not every trend is what you should engage in. Right. So being very mindful and thoughtful about what is a trend that you want to engage in. And I would probably start from the perspective of what is true to my brand as a first and foremost way to think, what, what do I, what am I looking to achieve? Right. And how does this trend connect authentically with my story? And if the answer is yes, there is authenticity and it aligns with my brand, it aligns with my strategy and what I have to offer as an organization or as a small business owner, then certainly participating in that trend authentically would be something that we would recommend. But if the answer is it is just a trend for trend sake, and there is no authentic angle that I can offer as a small business owner or any organization, then staying away is probably the best strategy. Because if you are trend hopping all the time, you lose connection and it actually hurts you in the long run because your audience sees through it and they know that you are just doing it for the sake of being in the conversation as opposed to truly offering something of value.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah. And I think that's where, and rightfully so, to your point, there's a lot of fear of coming across as cringy, you know, when trying to jump on these, these trends. And even, you know, I would imagine it, some businesses may be steering clear altogether when, when there is an authentic way that they could tap into some of these things. I, I know you kind of just touched on this, but, you know, what advice would you have for a business that's maybe they do have something authentic there, but there's still some, you know, some trepidation there as, as far as they don't want to be cringe, you know, how do they walk that line?
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Smita Vadawan
Yeah, yeah, no, great point. So as a marketer, one thing that we constantly do is test. So what I would say is oftentimes you have a gut, you know your audience, right. As a small business owner, your gut tells you this is the right thing to do, data supports it, you've spoken to your customers and your audience and you know this is the right thing to do. But still you don't know if it's going to work or not. Rather than spending tons of money and realizing that this was the wrong thing to do, our recommendation would be to start small, test into it. Whether it's a TikTok reel that you create or some Instagram story, right. Or YouTube shorts, but start with something really small. See how your audience engages, how your audience responds, listen to their feedback. So that's like one important element when you do a test and you get feedback, then listen to their feedback and respond and iterate according to it. Because the last thing you want to do is test something and not you receive that feedback and then do nothing with it. Right. Or still do what you are doing. So I would say that being very tuned in to, towards the data that comes back when you test and acting on the test with all the, all the honesty and integrity is a good way to kind of stay, stay in the moment, know that it's working, while also making sure that your audience is reacting positively to how you're thinking about things.
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Co-host/Interviewer
I want to talk more about measurement in general and so, you know, definitely agree testing is, is vital and, and can obviously tell you a lot more about where to steer things to go beyond that as well. You know, there's, there's a lot of businesses that are, you know, sometimes what you see is what you end up paying attention to. Right. So, you know, views and likes are,
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Greg Kilstrom
are front and center on a lot
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Co-host/Interviewer
of these platforms, but they don't always trans real tangible business outcomes. How should these companies be measuring ROI of some of these, you know, Gen Z inspired marketing campaigns? So they can really have long term, long term success?
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Smita Vadawan
Yep, yep. I mean those metrics are certainly important because they help you understand whether things are resonating or not. Yeah, but in marketing we call them just vanity metrics.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Right?
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Smita Vadawan
They are important, but they are not the end of the story. Just because somebody engages with your brand does not mean that they will take action and buy from you. So at the end of the day, whatever is ultimately the reason why your business exists. Right. So if the reason is to help somebody buy from you or create loyal customers, right. Or repeat behavior, that's what you are ultimately looking for. And I would probably say that, yes, look at the vanity metrics, optimize your creative based on those metrics, but ultimately make sure that you measure all the way into the success of the program. So if you create a campaign that is social first, which starts with say YouTube shots as your main creative execution element, look at the engagement, look at the views, but also then see what did that lead into? Did that audience ultimately buy from you, if that's what you were looking for? Or if they were your current customers, are they talking positively about you? Are they referring new customers, are they retaining, are they retained customers? So I would look at ultimately what your business is responsible for as the final metric of measurement.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah. So I mean that, that brings, that brings it back to like the KPI, you know, key performance indicators and, and really trying to tie those. And so, you know, based on that, it sounds like what you're saying as well is again, get, get the views, the likes, the vanity metrics, it's important.
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Greg Kilstrom
They're ind. They're indicators.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Right. They're leading indicators in some cases. But you know, I, I do think a lot of businesses Small businesses as well as larger ones have, have a hard time keeping some of those, those larger KPIs in mind. But you know, to use the, use an example of a retailer, let's say, because you know, business goals can vary greatly. But you know, let's say you're, you're a retailer, how effectively have you seen an organization really tie those like long term KPIs into some of these shorter term metrics, like what's realistic, I guess, to expect there?
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Smita Vadawan
Yeah. So I think where you're coming from is sometimes it's not always easy to measure all the way. Right. From the first touch point into whether the customer took action or not. And I think that's absolutely right. And given all the complexity around measurement today and how customer journeys are. Right. It is getting harder and harder, especially in the kind of world that we live in where cookies are going away. So measurement is never going to be perfect. Right. And as a marketer or as a small business owner or an organization of any size, we all need to feel comfortable with the fact that measurement will have some gray areas. It is just about feeling comfortable and saying that to this degree this is a risk involved in the measurement. But to this degree I'm ready to take that risk and feel confident in what I'm doing. So I would say that as much as possible, instrument any campaign or any work that you do more in an end to end way, so that you are looking at the engagement metrics and the clicks and the opens and all those things, but ultimately you are able to measure if that led to a conversion. Now whether that conversion is going to be a hundred percent accurate or not is probably not as important. But to get some read on, yes, this is leading to conversion and therefore this spend that I'm deploying towards a strategy seems to be going in the right direction. So I would just say that getting comfortable, the data will never be 100% and measurement will never be 100%. That's why marketing is both an art and a science. Right. So that's, that's the balance that I would probably suggest striking.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And to your point to, to always keep the long term in mind, even when, you know, even when it's challenging, at least it's, it's keeping it front and center. And you're not just doing a campaign, a one off campaign that is, is pure, you know, vanity metrics. And you're, you're always learning from everything that you do, you know, and learning maybe the influence that it has on some of those larger KPIs.
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Smita Vadawan
That's right, yep.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah. So as, as we wrap up here, a couple things for you. You know, first, I know we've, we've talked about a few different aspects of, you know, creating the content, delivering the content, measuring the content for those small and medium businesses out there with limited resources. What's some advice that you would have as far as practical steps that they can take to incorporate. We've been talking a lot about the Gen Z aspect, so incorporating some of the Gen Z flair into their marketing efforts without either breaking the bank or requiring a full overhaul of their efforts.
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Smita Vadawan
Yeah. So I would probably say that start small, don't spend too much money. The good thing about any Gen Z trend is that it does not need polished videos, it does not need polished creative, it doesn't have to have the best production. Starting something with say even if it's a micro influencer. Right. Or starting something with somebody who has a good enough audience that resonates with your brand and asking them to do a little bit of marketing as a small test for you is a good way to get started. And a lot of these what we call UGC or user generated content. Right. It's not very expensive because the entire idea is authentic storytelling and it's not world class production and the kind of budget that is synonymous with Madison Avenue. So I would say the cost of entry is not that high anymore and it kind of does allow you to democratize marketing to a large extent. But start small, see if it tests, see if it resonates. And it is also a good way to contain your cost and manage your budget without really, as you, as you're saying, breaking the bank.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah. Love it. Well, Smita, thanks so much for joining today. One last question for you before we wrap up. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
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Smita Vadawan
Yep. So first of all, thank you. It's been a pleasure being on the show and I really enjoyed the conversation. What do I do to stay in the know? So marketing is a very, very evolving discipline. It was always pretty evolving and rapidly changing with AI. Now things are even more changing at a rapid pace. Sometimes it could be overwhelming and I'll be honest with you, it does tend to get overwhelming. I think the key is to, to learn a lot from your peers so where you can actually curtail your learning cycle drastically. If you are learning from your peers, what's working for them, what's not working. People are pretty generous and they and if you spend enough time on LinkedIn and listen to podcasts, people are pretty generous with sharing what they've experimented with and what's failed. Learning very easily from those mistakes and kind of thinking about those in context of your brand is a good way to curtail the learning cycle while being in the know. That's one of the things that I I do a lot. I listen to podcasts such as probably your podcast as well. Listen to podcasts, stay in the know and then try and learn from our peers so we are not reinventing the same thing.
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Co-host/Interviewer
Yeah, I love it. Love it. Well again I'd like to thank Smita Vadawan CMO at Constant Contact for joining the show.
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Greg Kilstrom
You can learn more about Smita and Constant Contact by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's the agile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event. Go to www.greg kilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
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Smita Vadawan
The agile brand.
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Liberty Mutual Advertiser
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VRBoCare/Strayer University Advertiser
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Co-host/Interviewer
What is this, your first date?
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Liberty Mutual Advertiser
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Smita Vadawan
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
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Liberty Mutual Advertiser
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Smita Vadawan
Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty.
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