#728: The marketing jobs market and AI's role in the job search with Sue Keith, Landrum Talent Solutions

Summary

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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström® — Episode #728 Summary

Episode Title

The marketing jobs market and AI's role in the job search with Sue Keith, Landrum Talent Solutions

Release Date

September 4, 2025

Guest

Sue Keith — Corporate Vice President, Landrum Talent Solutions

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Greg Kihlström sits down once again with Sue Keith, Corporate VP at Landrum Talent Solutions, for a practical and insightful look at the current state of the marketing jobs market. They explore shifts in hiring trends, challenges marketing professionals face, and how artificial intelligence is transforming both the search for candidates and the job-seeking process itself. The conversation covers actionable advice for both hiring managers and job seekers, especially through the lens of AI adoption, networking, and developing career agility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current State of the Marketing Jobs Market

Timestamps: 03:03 – 04:55

• Market Activity Is Increasing:

  • Sue reports a notable uptick in both full-time and contract job placements compared to earlier in the year.
  • “Our recruiting team is busier than with both full time placements and contract positions than we were earlier this year ... definitely seen a pickup in the market after what was a pretty slow first half of the year.” (03:32)

• Persistent Challenges, Especially for Senior Roles:

  • Despite the increased activity, hiring remains tough, especially at senior levels, due to macroeconomic uncertainty and company hesitation to invest.
  • The unemployment rate for higher-income corporate professionals is worsening, even as the broader unemployment rate stays favorable.
  • “The market for marketing jobs ... is still pretty challenging, especially at the more senior levels.” (04:04)

2. The “Application Avalanche” & Candidate Oversight

Timestamps: 05:12 – 06:51

• Volume Overwhelm:

  • Hundreds of applications per job have become common, overwhelming in-house recruiters who often aren’t marketing specialists.

  • The growing complexity of marketing roles increases the chance of quality candidates being overlooked.

  • Sue notes that specialized recruiting teams with marketing backgrounds (versus generic recruiters) are better positioned to match candidates accurately.

  • “For every job posted on LinkedIn, there are hundreds of applications submitted ... good candidates can simply be overlooked.” (05:12)

3. Senior Talent Hesitancy and Nontraditional Career Moves

Timestamps: 06:51 – 09:46

• Hiring Managers’ Reluctance:
  • There’s hesitance to hire “overqualified” or senior candidates for roles meant for less-accomplished professionals, partly due to fear of turnover or fit.
  • Many senior marketers are now prioritizing meaningful work and culture over title or pay, challenging prior assumptions.
  • Anecdote: A former VP took a lower-title position in retail, found greater satisfaction, and contributed strategic value right away.
  • “A good number of senior level marketers are more focused on doing meaningful work, working with good people ... than they are about climbing the corporate ladder ...” (07:16)

4. AI Expectations in Marketing Candidates

Timestamps: 09:52 – 10:58

• What Hiring Managers Seek:
  • Curiosity and proactive self-education in AI tools outweigh specific technology experience, given the rapid pace of change.
  • Sue’s advice for job descriptions: look for an "AI champion" — someone testing tools, taking classes, reading, and staying current.
  • “My recommendation is look for first curiosity ... someone who wants to serve as the AI champion on the marketing team. And in fact, I think that’s the bullet she should use.” (10:11)

5. The Reality of AI in Hiring Processes

Timestamps: 10:58 – 12:27

• AI-Powered Screening:
  • Resume screening and even initial “interviews” increasingly happen through AI-driven applicant tracking systems.
  • In some cases, candidates’ first-live interviews can be with advanced avatars, not people.
  • While the technology can be disconcerting, Sue predicts it will rapidly become standard.
  • “With many companies, your first interview — I’m doing air quotes — is with an algorithm... The avatar was pretty lifelike. But ... it can be really disconcerting ...” (11:05)

6. Actionable Advice for Job Seekers

Timestamps: 12:51 – 14:54

• Networking Is Essential:

  • Don’t rely on online applications alone; activate your network, even with people you haven't connected to in years.
  • Most people want to help if asked.
  • “Most people are uncomfortable asking others for help, but most people like to help others.” (12:51)

• Optimize Your LinkedIn:

  • Treat your LinkedIn with the same care as your resume: use strong accomplishment bullets, add a professional photo, and update recommendations.
  • “Spend as much time on your LinkedIn profile as you do on your resume... In the end, it’s a reflection of your judgment...” (13:23)

7. AI Skills: Expectation and Preparation

Timestamps: 14:54 – 15:56

• Become “AI Conversant”:
  • Both job seekers and hiring managers should seek a working understanding — not necessarily mastery — of AI tools and developments.
  • Leverage free resources, newsletters, and bootcamps; proactively test tools, even while in transition.
  • “Do everything you can to become what I call AI Conversant. I didn’t say fluent ... but you should be able to talk intelligently about the technology and the tools.” (15:06)

8. Staying Agile & Trusted Advisory

Timestamps: 16:14 – 16:38

• Continuous Market Engagement:
  • Sue credits regular conversations with clients and candidates for keeping her guidance relevant and her approach agile.
  • “The goal of a service provider is to become the trusted advisor for your clients, and that's what I strive to be.” (16:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On current market dynamics:

  • “The market for marketing jobs ... is still pretty challenging, especially at the more senior levels.” — Sue Keith (04:04)

• On the paradox of too many applicants, but not enough matches:

  • “For every job posted on LinkedIn, there are hundreds of applications submitted ... good candidates can simply be overlooked.” — Sue Keith (05:12)

• On what matters for hiring AI-ready marketers:

  • “My recommendation is look for first curiosity ... someone who wants to serve as the AI champion on the marketing team.” — Sue Keith (10:11)

• On preparing for AI-driven hiring processes:

  • “With many companies, your first interview ... is with an algorithm. ... The avatar was pretty lifelike ... But ... it can be really disconcerting for the interviewee.” — Sue Keith (11:05)

• On standing out as a marketing job seeker:

  • “Spend as much time on your LinkedIn profile as you do on your resume.” — Sue Keith (13:23)

• On lifelong agility and advisory:

  • “The goal of a service provider is to become the trusted advisor for your clients, and that's what I strive to be.” — Sue Keith (16:14)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:03 — Start of discussion on current market trends.
• 04:55 — Layoffs, market tightness for senior candidates.
• 05:12 — Why hiring managers struggle to “find good talent.”
• 06:51 – 07:16 — Reluctance to hire senior/overqualified candidates and market consequences.
• 09:52 — What to look for in AI skillsets.
• 10:58 – 12:27 — AI’s place in resume screening and first-stage interviews.
• 12:51 – 14:54 — Networking and LinkedIn best practices for job seekers.
• 14:54 – 15:56 — Advice for becoming “AI Conversant.”
• 16:14 – 16:38 — On staying agile and a trusted advisor.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a candid, well-rounded view of today's challenging marketing jobs market, emphasizing resilience, strategic networking, and embracing AI—both as a technical upskilling priority and as a reality of modern recruitment. Sue Keith’s guidance for both job seekers and hiring managers is pragmatic: cultivate curiosity, build a standout professional presence, and accept that agility and ongoing learning are requirements for success—especially as artificial intelligence plays a growing role in all stages of marketing careers.

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Transcript

[Sue Keith]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Sue Keith]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Sue Keith]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Podcast Co-host]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty

[Sue Keith]

the Adjunct Brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Starting Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, E commerce, and whatever's next for the omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech AI and marketing operations. To make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. This episode is brought to you by Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions.

[Podcast Co-host]

My guest today has been keeping us up to date with the current state

[Greg Kilstrom]

of hiring for marketers on a quarterly basis, and there's surely never a dull moment. Today we're going to look at how

[Podcast Co-host]

marketing and communication execs are responding to

[Greg Kilstrom]

the latest developments, plus the role of

[Podcast Co-host]

AI in both hiring and job seeking.

[Greg Kilstrom]

To take a look at the latest

[Podcast Co-host]

here, I'd like to welcome back to the show Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions. Sue, welcome back to the show.

[Sue Keith]

Thanks, Greg.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, always.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Always good to talk with you.

[Podcast Co-host]

So welcome back here.

[Greg Kilstrom]

And for those that haven't caught you

[Podcast Co-host]

on the show before, why don't we start with you giving a little background on yourself and what you're currently doing.

[Sue Keith]

Sure. So I like to say I have a bit of a weird career journey. I have a dual degree in accounting and French even. That's weird. Started my career in audit at Deloitte, then I stumbled into marketing for quite a few years and Then for the last 12 or so years I've been with Landrum Talent, as you just said, formerly serious talent. For Those in the D.C. area who might recognize our former company. As you said, we're a national recruiting firm that specializes in two functional areas, HR and marketing. Marketing is the one, the practice I lead and marketing is a really big category. So the way we break it up is to into four buckets of marketing, communications, product and creative. And we place full time contract and fractional positions within those areas.

[Podcast Co-host]

Great. So yeah, we're as, as usual we're going to talk a little bit about what, what's going on. You know, every time I, I check back in with you, it's, you know, some things are maybe similar but there's always some, some changes and some, some variations. So let's start by talking about the state of hiring for marketers today. Where do things stand and what's changed from a marketing hiring manager or leader's perspective since we last spoke a few months ago. Why don't we start with the good news?

[Sue Keith]

Yes, and in fact, let's start with the good news. I feel like I've been a bit of the voice of doom during our last few conversations. So the good news is our team, our recruiting team is busier than with both full time placements and contract positions than we were earlier this year. So that's good news. One, two is candidates are telling us they're seeing more activity in response to their job applications. So that's good news number two. So definitely seen a pickup in the market after what was a pretty slow first half of the year.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah. So now what about the not so good news?

[Sue Keith]

So this is where the voice of doom comes back. So we've, like I said, we've seen an increase in activity but the market for marketing jobs and marketing in particular is still pretty challenging, especially at the more senior levels. Got the ongoing uncertainty caused by tariffs, other government stuff going on and it's meant companies, they're remaining on the sidelines, you know, hesitant invest in anything from technology to assets to people. I should mention we're seeing this across all function areas, not just marketing, but marketing seems to have been particularly affected. I heard this really interesting stat on CNBC last week. So I'm sure you know the unemployment rate is holding steady of about 4.2% which is what the, the Goldilocks number. Right. That's where we want it to be. But that unemployment rate is actually accelerating for higher income workers versus lower income employees. So while the national average still looks really good if you dig into the numbers. It's getting worse for corporate workers.

[Podcast Co-host]

Got it, got it. Okay. And so, you know, if there's a lot of marketers looking for a job, then, you know, I hear, and I know you talk with a lot of hiring managers as well, you know, why is it so hard to find good candidates?

[Sue Keith]

Yeah, we hear this question a lot from both the hiring managers and the in house recruiters we work with. And there are a few things driving this paradox. So first is the sheer volume of applications, what we're calling the application avalanche. For every job posted on LinkedIn, there are hundreds of applications submitted. And so if you think about it, if you're a recruiter who works for a company and you're working on say three to five open recs across the business at any time, that means you have thousands of resumes to sort through and it's just overwhelming. And so good candidates can simply be overlooked. Another factor is those same internal recruiters I was talking about. They're generalists. They have to fill every position within the company. So from finance to marketing to ops to hr. So as marketing roles have become more complex over the years, and they really have, the jobs have become harder for a non marketing person to really understand the role. And we actually learned this firsthand ourselves many years ago. The first recruiter, Kathy, my business partner I ever hired, came from the accounting staffing industry. And we thought, hey, we need someone who really understands recruiting. We can teach them about marketing and communications positions. Because quite frankly, she and I really didn't know anything about recruiting at that point. But every job our new recruiter worked on was a completely new function for her and she had to start from scratch every time. So if you think about it, there's very little overlap between say a PR manager, a director of marketing ops and a product marketing role. So that's why we flipped the script. And now we, our current team of recruiters, and this has been for quite a while, are all former marketers. So we hire the people who bring the marketing domain experience and then we teach them recruiting.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah, got it. And so you mentioned the job market for more senior positions is particularly challenging right now. What about candidates that you know, from the hiring manager perspective, you know, what about those candidates that you know, they have the right components, but they have a little more experience than a hiring manager is looking for.

[Sue Keith]

Right. I'm really glad we're talking about this. So hiring managers tend to be reluctant to consider more senior talent for both contract and permanent Roles, we see it all the time. You know, people are worried they're too experienced, too expensive, have been at the place too long, the same, same place too long. Or if it's a contract job, maybe that candidate will leave as soon as they land a full time position. And I get it. You know, there are a lot of people who've been looking for a job for quite a while now and they're willing to take a lower title and or lower salary to land somewhere. And it is possible that some of them may be a flight risk when the market picks up. But the current market is telling us that a good number of senior level marketers are more focused on doing meaningful work, working with good people, working for companies that do interesting things than they are about climb. You know, no longer really focused on climbing the corporate ladder or even, you know, making top compensation. And it's so funny, we were, I was talking with my team about this and then I had a conversation last week with a woman I know who just told me she'd gotten a new job and she had been looking for a job for quite a while. I think she had in our last job been a director, senior director maybe. And she'd been looking for a job for quite a while. She was able to get some consulting work which was good. But she decided to take a first part time job in a retail store, a women's clothing line. And she did it mostly just get out of her house, get out of her head. And while she was there she realized I really like retail. So she went out of her way and she went, did a focused campaign, we'll call it, to go find a position with a retail brand. And that's what she did. Now what she also did was take a senior manager title and she thought, you know what, I'm going to take title out of the equation. I'm just going to focus on what I want to do and the industry that's really interesting to me. So that's what she did. And she's doing really cool work and she's getting great visibility despite that title. She met with a CEO twice in her first two days. So in the end the company she joined got a really talented marketer who will definitely not need much ramp time. She's going to be more strategic than probably someone who was at that level and will likely work really efficiently. So you know, and all at the same title and salary that company had budgeted for.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And get, and, and her branching out a little bit and trying something even if it was intended originally to be temporary or something. Kind of expanded her horizons as well. So it's kind of a. Yeah, kind of a win. Win all around.

[Sue Keith]

Exactly.

[Podcast Co-host]

Certainly we're hearing a lot about AI in relation to, you know, everything from AI taking people's jobs to all. All manner of other things. In terms of AI capabilities, what are hiring managers looking for in regards to candidates, you know, familiarity as well as their capabilities?

[Sue Keith]

Sure. This is definitely a topic I could spend hours on, but I won't. I actually had. It's funny, I was thinking about this question and I had a client call me this week that ask, how are your manager incorporating AI requirements into job description? She's writing a job description and wanted to know what the bullet should say. And I said, well, unless you have a really specific use case for AI that you want someone to absolutely have experience in doing that or maybe using that tool, since the technology and the tools are evolving so quickly, my recommendation is look for first curiosity, someone who has tested a bunch of AI tools who is doing, I'll call it AI research through taking free classes, reading all the newsletters. Basically someone who wants to serve as the AI champion on the marketing team. And in fact, I think that's the bullet she should use.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah. What about using AI in the hiring process itself?

[Sue Keith]

So it's big right now. I'm sorry, it's crazy, but with many companies, your first interview I'm doing air quotes is with an algorithm. So what I mean by that is companies use what are called applicant tracking systems to receive applications and, you know, process candidates through the interview process. And so all those applicant tracking systems now have AI technology built into them. And so what that means is the technology is scanning each resume in seconds. It's actually scoring the applicant against others based on, say, keywords, formatting or what other filters the hiring company has put in. And if you pass the bot, then you may get to a human, and then I know, sure, everyone's right about this. You know, many companies, especially the large ones that hire in volume, think, you know, fast food chains, call centers, those candidates are doing their first live interviews with bots. So you're literally having an interview with an avatar, not a human. I actually saw a demo of this not long ago by one of the vendors who provides this, and it's pretty wild. I mean, the avatar was pretty lifelike. But I would also imagine it can be really disconcerting for the interviewee to know, like, I'm having this, what feels like a human conversation, but it's Not a human.

[Podcast Co-host]

Right.

[Sue Keith]

But I also predict this is, I think this whole first interview is with an avatar sort of thing, is going to become a more normal part of the interview process. And I think ultimately candidates will eventually know to expect it.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, I can't imagine it going away. Right. So, yeah. So, you know, as, as we wrap up here, a couple, couple questions from kind of both, both perspectives here. What advice would you have for job seekers that are looking for a marketing position? Knowing, you know, knowing everything we just talked about, you know, what, what should they be doing?

[Sue Keith]

Well, there's a reason you always hear network, network, network, because it works. You have to do that in addition to applying for jobs. It's just, it's highly unlikely if you don't do some work beyond a, you know, hitting submit now on LinkedIn, it's going to go anywhere, you know, and one of these things and talking to so many people in between jobs over the last couple of years, it's occurred to me that, you know, most people are uncomfortable asking others for help, but most people like to help others. So I remind candidates of this all the time. Reach out to your contacts. Even it's someone you haven't talked to in 10 years, they'll, it'll be okay. They'll know. You can tell them why you're contacting them and you never know who could connect you with the right person or, you know, so I don't know, flap a butterfly, win somewhere. But I also say don't give up on other channels like LinkedIn. So if you were to ask me for a lightning round piece of advice, which you didn't, but I'm going to, I would say spend as much time on your LinkedIn profile profile as you do on your resume. And I say this because for many reasons, but primarily so if you've got a recruiter who's on LinkedIn searching for potential candidates for a position they're working on, they're only going to see your LinkedIn profile. There's no resume there. So you want to make sure your, your LinkedIn profile is robust, you know, with the bullets from your resume. You know, for example, I just reviewed a candidate's really good resume. She had great, like, beefy bullets. But none of those great bullets were on her LinkedIn profile. She just had her titles. Make sure you have a professional profile picture. I don't mean you have to go pay a photographer for a fancy headshot, just something that's professional. I can't tell you the number of LinkedIn photos I've seen that leave you scratching your head. And in the end, it's a reflection of your judgment that you put that up there.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sue Keith]

And also the last thing I'd say is I also recommend having current, I stress current recommendations on your LinkedIn profile. It can be a tipping point. What I mean by that, you know, there have been numerous times when our team's been on the fence about a candidate for a position we're sourcing, and then we look at their LinkedIn recommendations and say, oh, wow, all these people said these great things. And hey, that actually, that particular recommendation told me this person can do what I was hoping they'd be able to do. So we've, we've talked to them.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, to, I guess back to the AI part of this conversation. What, what advice would you give to job seekers related to AI in their next job?

[Sue Keith]

I would actually give this advice to both job seekers and hiring managers and everyone in between. Do everything you can to become what I call AI Conversant. I didn't say fluent. I don't think no one is an expert, even the people who say they are, but you should be able to talk intelligently about the technology and the tools. So subscribe to AI newsletters. Take free boot camps. There are a ton of them out there and they are free. I mean, some are paid, but you can really find a lot of free ones. And I would say test and use a bunch of the AI tools. So even if you're not current, currently employed using AI, during an interview, you can speak to the tools you've tested and the various use cases that marketers are employing to do their jobs better. We host a monthly Zoom call for marketing directors and above or in between business cards, as we like to say. And we just did our monthly one last week. And as one participant pointed out, if you're not working, the silver lining is you have plenty of time to dig into AI.

[Podcast Co-host]

Right? Right. Yeah, good. Good point. Well, sue, thanks as always for sharing your ideas and insights. One last question. I know I've asked it to you a couple times now, but going to ask it again. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Sue Keith]

Sure. You know, I love this question. I talk to people, I talk to marketing leaders, I talk to job seekers, I talk to people who sell to the same buyers we do. It gives me a really good sense of the market and it gives me what I hope is, you know, it enables me to give helpful guidance to our clients and candidates. Years ago, someone said the goal of a service provider is to become the trusted advisor for your clients, and that's what I strive to be.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah, yeah. Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions, for coming back to the show.

[Greg Kilstrom]

And thanks to our sponsor, Landrum Talent

[Podcast Co-host]

Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions. You can learn more about sue and

[Greg Kilstrom]

Landrum Talent Solutions by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagile brand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co. Op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.

[Sue Keith]

The Agile brand,

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