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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#787: Tray.ai's Stephen Stouffer on AI adoption and why marketers should care about the integration layer
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- [00:01]
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Carvana Customer
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Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce, and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And now onto the show. Why are so many companies spending billions on AI only to see their most ambitious projects stall out before they ever impact the customer? Experience Agility requires more than just a fast moving marketing team. It requires the foundational ability to connect disparate systems and data sources, allowing new technologies like AI to be implemented and scaled, not just piloted. Today we're going to talk about the single biggest and often overlooked blocker to enterprise AI adoption, the integration layer. While everyone is focused on the models and the applications, the legacy infrastructure underneath is preventing companies from moving beyond small scale experiments. We're going to explore why a modern integration first approach is no longer A nice to have for it, but a strategic imperative for any brand that wants to turn AI hype into a real competitive advantage. Tell me discuss this topic. I'd like to welcome Steven Stouffer, Director of Automation solutions at Trade AI. Steven, welcome to the show.
- [03:08]
Steven Stouffer
Hey, thank you for having me.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this topic. Definitely curious myself here. So, but before we dive in, why don't you give a little background on yourself and your role Trey AI?
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Steven Stouffer
Sure, yeah. So my background started over a decade ago back when RevOps marketing ops was just email marketing and then that turned into marketing automation and then turned into marketing operations and now we've got Rev Ops flying around and AIOps. So yeah, so back in the day started my roots in email marketing and now I sit kind of in the integration space. So here at Trey, I help the pre sales team work with different prospects, mapping out different solutions, figuring out how it can fit and then I also work on the post sales side too with our customers, you know, wireframing up concepts to production type of work, which is exciting.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, well, and for those a little less familiar, can you tell us what does Trey AI do and you know, what specific problems you solve and who are typical customers?
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Steven Stouffer
Sure, yeah. So our customer base spans from ops teams and you know, ops within marketing, ops within sales, ops within it. We sell a lot into it. It's a big target demographic for us. But Trey as a whole is a workflow orchestration and an AI orchestration platform. So whether or not you're doing traditional pushing and pulling of data through the workflow side of the house, or with our AIR offering being able to build agents that sits on top of your existing tech stack. So think a one stop shop to build AI agents versus trying to like manage the sprawl that you would have if you'd used all the in app agents or point solutions that are out there.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's becoming, it's becoming an issue. Right. So yeah, well, so yeah, let's, let's start here with the strategic aspect of this maybe. And also lot of leaders are very focused on acquiring the best AI tools kind of to your, to your earlier point. But you know, one of the real bottlenecks to adoption is legacy infrastructure that they're built on. You know, from your perspective, how does this integration blind spot manifest in large organizations and what are the typical symptoms of a company that might be hitting this wall?
- [05:41]
Steven Stouffer
Sure, yeah. So I mean a lot of these old legacy systems who are kind of pivoting to try to adopt, you know, the AI infrastructure. The issue isn't their first use case. It's typically the point solutions do a really good job about that first initial use case that the entire platform is kind of baked around. The problem really comes with the second, the third, the fourth use case. A neighboring department sees that you're doing something and then they want to do it, but their tech stack is just a little bit different. And before you, you know it, the one solution that it did really well suddenly can't do, you know, everything that everyone else wants to do. So it's almost like the point solutions kind of get promoted into incompetency. It's like, it's like it did it. It started so good and then it kind of became a problem. So I think that's where Trey fits really nicely within the market, is we're platform agnostic. We don't care whether or not you have a salesforce first approach for your CRM or if you work with Eloqua. Right. So under the hood, everything is APIs and we are the orchestration layer that sits on top of that. So you can build and deploy at scale. So whether or not one department uses one tool set versus another department, they can have completely different ecosystems and still build on the trade platform.
- [07:00]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah. So what does this look like in, you know, in practice? So an integration first mindset, as you've called it before, you know, what does that practically mean for. And we'll focus primarily on the marketing and the CX part of the house here. But how does this approach change how they should evaluate, select, and even budget for new technologies?
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Steven Stouffer
Sure. So, I mean, if you listen to other podcasts or AI influencers that are out there, they always say garbage in, garbage out. Right. So if you not only have bad data, or even if you have really good data, but the data is not connected and your agents don't have access to that data, then they're only as good as the data that they have and the connectedness that they have within the platform. So that's why having an integration first approach, where making sure your tech stack just at a fundamental layer is connected before you even think about building, you know, agents or automation that sits on top of that. So, yeah, it's. And I think that's why Trey is so poised within the market when it comes to AI, is because. Because our roots is an iPass. It's connecting other systems together so super impactful. Otherwise you start deploying agents and then realizing that you have to connect the data and clean the data and then you're kind of back to square one. So, yeah, very important.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of a different, it's silos, but just in a different way, I think, than most people are thinking about. Right. Because the point of agents is to connect things. So you're connecting things, but you're still running into limitations with some of those, those very focused tools. Is that safe to say?
- [08:48]
Steven Stouffer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, especially if you use a point solution. It's like that point solution is really good about keeping you locked in their ecosystem where the data lives. But then it's like, okay, maybe you migrate your CRM or you adopt a new tool and then suddenly that data is inaccessible to you because maybe that new platform doesn't have a native integration with, you know, your CRM, your market automation platform, your email marketing platform. So yeah, having that integration first approach is key not only to keeping the sanity within your team, but also when you start thinking about deploying agents at scale.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. And so I believe one of your customers is yext. And reading through the case study, they managed to build over a hundred integrations in a handful in just three months. Knowing what it takes in Fortune, you know, very large companies, let's just say to do one integration, that's a pretty, you know, phenomenal rate of, of speed and, and integration. Can you walk us through what was required to move from building integrations? I mean, if we're talking 100 integrations in three months, we're talking not weeks, we're talking days or hours. Hours, right?
- [10:06]
Steven Stouffer
Yeah. I mean, every use case is a little bit different, but with, with yext, their big thing was their IT team was just completely bogged down, which, just some of those common issues, password resets, access control. They're so busy doing that work and they couldn't actually start working on more impactful work, like thinking about where is the business moving, working on infrastructure. So what they did was they built a series of agents that, that sat in front and, and in front of the IT team to do the case deflection. So answering those common questions, they loaded it with knowledge and gave it a set of tools where the agent could even take actions so the IT team could focus on more impactful parts of the business. So yeah, I mean, they're, they're, they're definitely a big customer. But you know, some customers start small, which is a couple of agents or a single agent use case scene and realizing the ROI from that and then moving up. Or you can be like yext or Your enterprise business, where you just have to move fast, where, you know, our front end interface makes it very friendly to build at scale, which I think was key for them to, you know, build hundreds of integrations. You can't do that with just code. You have to have a scalable infrastructure, which Trey definitely has.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, well. And I think definitely to your point, to do that many things at scale and do it well, you also need that mindset of, you know, here's how we want to approach and good use cases. So, you know, I would imagine to your point, there's, there's a lot of organizations that may start off with a few pilots use cases or something like that. Right. And, and then kind of build from there.
- [11:42]
Steven Stouffer
Yeah, yeah. It, it, you know, it's interesting. Some departments, the way that I've kind of approached it was, you know, meet with your team, document those repetitive tasks that are just kind of bogging everybody down or kind of draining them from their energy day to day. And then you can get a lot of buy in when you start to like, be like, hey, we, we can remove that from your plate. Like that thing that's bogging you down, like we can just build an agent on it. Like that's a very approachable and easy way to like get everyone bought in on it. And then depending on the use case, you can directly tie it to revenue. So whether or not it's a sales ops, marketing ops use case, or it's, it's, you know, from open to closed case deflection, you can start to get those real ROI numbers and bring that up to your executive team and then, you know, identify the next use case after you've kind of shaved off that, that first bit.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, and speaking of that, I know the case study for Yext, they saw a 60% reduction in integration costs. So pretty phenomenal savings there. Speaking of ROI and things like that, some organizations may not again do that extensive amount of things, but still are looking for roi. And what are some of the metrics that can be used to, to start telling the story? Because I would imagine this is also, it's a change and any change, you know, it requires humans to be okay with that also. So you kind of need to win, you know, hearts and minds, however you want to say it to do that. So what are some of the other metrics used to kind of sell this in?
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Steven Stouffer
Yeah, it depends on the team and the use case, but I'll kind of just give you a few examples. So it of course like open, like how long a ticket is open to when it can be resolved is like a key, a key metric or the number of, you know, tickets that are resolved. So that's kind of a good IT example. On the marketing side, it could be from, you know, when you lead capture to getting it into the sales pipeline. Right. So you go to an event and you get that CSV and then you have to manually clean it and then send it off to the Salesforce team to do imports, check to see if there's a lead existing and then update that. You know, all of that could be automated. So like another customer I worked with, from getting a lead into the system to getting it in the hands of sales, like took over a week when you could just automate that and have it done enrichment, routing, all that done just within minutes. So there's, you know, tons of different metrics out there for like the value of getting to that lead record as quickly as possible and that impacts whether or not they pick up the phone and ultimately become a customer. So like that's a marketing use case and then from like an HR use case, like employee onboarding, like getting them onboarded as quickly and efficiently as possible so you can start getting value from that employee and having them start to do the work that you hired them to do. So different use cases across the board. But I mean, those are just a few examples.
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Greg Kilstrom
So I also want to talk about the let's call it future ready aspect of this as well, because, you know, there's several. Obviously change is. Is the only constant, right. So not only are new things popping up, but an organization may shift platform. You know, they may be on, you know, Salesforce one day and, and something else. The, you know, maybe not the next day. But you know what I mean, these, sure, they, they're gonna change.
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Steven Stouffer
I don't know. You say that, but I mean, it seems to happen that way.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, fair. Fair enough. Yeah. And, and so this idea of being, you know, this, this integration first kind of mindset, it. It also keeps you ready for again, not only those things that we don't even know what's coming three years down the, down the road, but also those, those platform switches which are costly and, and time consuming and everything like that. I guess maybe talk about the mindset part of it first because it does require. I talk about agility a lot on the show, obviously, but it requires thinking very agile and flexible and knowing that, okay, we're using X tool today, we're probably going to be using Y tool in three years.
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Steven Stouffer
Sure.
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Greg Kilstrom
What does that kind of Thinking require?
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Steven Stouffer
Yeah. So I mean, within our platform we have something called a callable workflow. And that's just a really fancy way of saying it's a narrowly scoped piece of automation or you know, it could be an agent to complete a task. And that callable workflow can be plugged into any process that you might have. So a good example of this might be something like lead enrichment. Whenever you want to enrich a lead, you pass this callable workflow and email address. It enriches the lead and it passes you back the enrichment data. So regardless of the use case spanning from like marketing, sales, rev ops, any of those teams can use this callable workflow. It'll enrich the data and get it back to them and be used in let's say 50 different automation processes. The scalable piece is, this is just one workflow. So let's say you change your enrichment provider from something like Clearbit to Zoom Info instead of having to go into those 50 different automations and update it from Clearbit to ZoomInfo 50 different times and handling all these different auths and it can just become a mess. So because Trace infrastructure supports callable workflows, we have that composable architecture where you're only changing that, that process one time in one workflow. Marketing, sales, rev ops, all those teams can continue to use that same callable workflow. They don't even realize under the hood that you've actually changed something so their, their processes aren't broken. There's a lot of continuity and you can kind of grow your business in that way. Same, you know, the same thing is, like I mentioned earlier, Trey is a platform agnostic. We don't care if you're plugging, you know, an agent or a workflow directly into Salesforce or Eloqua or Sugar or you know, fill in the blank CRM. You can flip those out very easily within the platform. So from a scalability perspective, I think we have that in spades. And then from an agent perspective, you have like OpenAI coming out like every month with a new model. So like our agents can run on top of of Gemini, OpenAI AWS bedrock. We don't care where we're agnostic in that manner. And you can deploy the newest model or change models just on the fly.
- [18:08]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, and so you mentioned, and I'm certainly seeing this as well, is every platform out there has the agentic. It was Genai two years ago or maybe even a year ago for the later adopters. But now almost every platform has some Kind of agentic component to it. How does one of those platforms live in a world with an organization that's adopted Trey? You know, how can they coexist? Or like what's the, what's the optimal solution there?
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Steven Stouffer
Yeah, so we see this sometimes with Glean. There's kind of a better together story there where Glean does some search capabilities. We do search capabilities. But let's say a company has already adopted Glean. Like that could be baked into our processes. So as long, long as whatever tool you're using has an API and it can be invoked via like a rest, you know, interface, then yeah, we definitely have seen customers integrate with some other AI tools that do things really, really well. But we're finding that you still need some sort of constant orchestration layer where you have a lot of observability, you have access control. For an example, a lot of these kind of pop up AI solutions like they're not HIPAA compliant, they're not GDPR compliant, they don't do regional host hosting. So it's like you got to be careful that, of what data you pass these, especially when we live in such like a compliant first environment. So I think that's where even if you have those, you still need those access controls that an orchestration platform like Trey offers. Still in the mix.
- [19:47]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. So for those execs out there, marketing execs listening to this and they're, you know, they're hearing some of the symptoms of, hey, I should probably be looking into something like this. What's the, you know, where, where do these conversations kind of start internally? Like somebody's identified an issue, but like where's the best place to start for them?
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Steven Stouffer
Yeah, so I think the first area is to just identify the use cases amongst your team. If you're a marketing executive, I would challenge you to go to your team and just ask them how long it takes for let's say an events lead record to get into sales arms. And if you know it's in days, you've probably got a problem and you definitely need, need to fix that. But you know, if you pull the, the, the, the marketing team or the marketing ops team, they likely know where the problems are. So it's just giving them the latitude to kind of dig a little bit deeper and then build out maybe a mvp, like a minimal viable product of, of what a use case could be and then bring that to some, someone like me here at Trey. Challenge us here, here at Trey and be like, hey, here's our use Case. Here's our pain point. Let's get into like a proof of concepts, start to build that out, see the value, and then adopt a platform like the Trey platform to help solve it. Not only just that, that first initial use case, but then once that's taken care of, move on to the next use case and the next use case. And then before you know it, you know you have a fully kind of orchestrated layer to handle your automation and your agents within your business.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Well, as we wrap up here, a couple last questions for you. If we were to have this interview one year from today, what's one thing that we would definitely be talking about
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Steven Stouffer
one year from today? Probably about that. The content on the Internet with AI and stuff out there, it's becoming, it used to be very clearly, you know, AI and then it kind of shifted into like, okay, there's not six fingers anymore, but, but it's a little blurry and a little confusing. But it's getting so good and it's going to be, we're going to be living in a world in a couple of years, I think, where you're not going to be able to tell the difference. Even, you know, folks like me who are like in AI every day and there's something there. They like, there's some controls that I think that we need to be putting in place. So when I talk about we live in a world of a compliant first standpoint, so GDPR, making sure that you're like SOC 2 certified, I think there's going to be something else there that businesses are going to need to adhere to when it comes to AI or at least letting users know that they're interfacing with AI. So I, I think that's coming and I'm very curious to see what that looks like. But that's probably going to be the next phase in the evolution.
- [22:39]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, that's, I'm, I'm, I'm waiting for that too. So. Yeah, that, yeah, makes sense. Well, Stephen, thanks so much for joining today. Last question for you. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
- [22:54]
Steven Stouffer
Yeah, I drink lots and lots of coffee. No, I say yes when I want to say no. I found that that's probably the best thing that helped me out. It's like things are very scary. There's a lot of asks out there that I'm just like, I don't know, I've never done that before. Have any of us done this before? This is all new stuff. So lots of coffee and say yes instead of now.
- [23:18]
Greg Kilstrom
Nice. Love it. Well again, I'd like to thank Steven Stouffer, Director of Automation Solutions at Trey AI, for joining the show. You can learn more about Steven and Trey AI by following the links in the show notes thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co. Op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
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