Podcast Summary: The Al Franken Podcast
Episode: Mark Leibovich on Hegseth, Trump, & More!
Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Al Franken
Guest: Mark Leibovich, Staff Writer at The Atlantic
Overview of Episode
In this wide-ranging discussion, Al Franken welcomes Mark Leibovich to dissect recent political scandals, the ethics and state of the Trump administration, American autocracy, media norms, and political shifts. The episode blends sharp political critique with moments of dark humor, providing both critical analysis and a view of Washington’s surreal current state.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. "Signal Gate" and National Security Negligence
- Description:
The episode opens with a recap of the so-called "Signal Gate" scandal, where a supposedly private, encrypted signal chat involving high-level national security officials accidentally included The Atlantic’s editor, Jeff Goldberg. - What Happened:
Goldberg received real-time updates intended for national security figures during an operation in Yemen. The Pentagon reviewed and confirmed the seriousness. - Leibovich Explains:
"There are even far many more layers of encryption that high level national security… are availed of… this is not something they would have wanted the editor of the Atlantic to be part of, especially since it was on the record." (08:11)
2. Hegseth’s Orders and the Ethics of Warfare
- Allegations:
Pete Hegseth, a member of the administration, is reported to have ordered the killing of two survivors of a (possibly illegal) drug boat strike in the Caribbean. - Debate on Legality:
Franken questions the military necessity and legality, calling the first strike questionable and the second a "war crime" (02:48). - Congressional Action:
Congressional Republicans and the Pentagon appear rattled; investigations are ongoing. - Trump’s Response:
Trump denies supporting the killings if defenseless; Hegseth denies the order."Trump said that he would not have endorsed killing…if they were in fact defenseless…we'll see where that goes." (11:32)
3. Trump’s Pardons and Apparent Contradictions
- Details:
Trump pardons drug traffickers but also the notorious ex-Honduran president Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was convicted for flooding the US with cocaine. He also pardoned Democratic Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas, accused of bribery. - Underlying Theme:
Trump seems to profit politically and financially from pardons, blurring ethical boundaries further."He's made a lot of money on pardons...the Trump family has made...it was $4 billion." (19:58)
- Notable Quote:
Mark Leibovich: "Who among us, Al, who among us?" (18:21)
4. Corruption, Autocracy, and Profiteering
- Corruption as the New Normal:
Leibovich and Franken discuss how Trump’s personal profit-making eclipses past scandals. The Blagojevich scandal is referenced as "quaint" by comparison (20:18). - Autocratic Tendencies:
They explicitly lay out Trump’s autocratic leanings:- Profiting from office, cronyism, abusing power, targeting political enemies, ignoring court rulings, and manipulating elections (23:09 – 24:26).
Leibovich: "What categories we're missing in autocracy? The profiting we have, cronyism we have, just the whole Dear Leader thing..." (24:11)
5. Trump’s Racist Rhetoric and Immigration Crackdowns
- Minnesota Somalis & Other Immigrants:
Trump attacks Somalis in Minnesota, calling them “garbage," and moves to halt visas for Afghan allies and other "Third World" immigrants post-National Guard shooting. - Community Response:
Franken defends his Somali constituents; Leibovich notes the lack of widespread GOP condemnation. - Notable Quote:
Trump (clip, as played by Franken): "We don't want them in our country. Their country stinks... If we keep taking in garbage... Ilhan Omar is garbage. Her friends are garbage." (28:28) - Franken counters:
"They are our neighbors, our friends, and they were my supporters. Trump is a detestable racist and has been his entire life." (02:48)
6. Ukraine and U.S. Foreign Policy
- U.S. Withdrawing Support:
Trump administration appears to be “bailing” on Ukraine, with secret talks involving Jared Kushner and even business-like “deals” with Russians."It sounds like they're making business deals or something...Ukraine does not seem to be involved in these negotiations." (31:58 – 32:56)
7. Media Exclusion and Government Secrecy
- Press Banned from Pentagon
The administration’s exclusion of the press is flagged as another sign of autocratic governance. (25:12)
8. Cabinet Loyalty and Absurdity
- Marco Rubio’s Praise:
Rubio effusively flatters Trump at a Cabinet meeting while Trump appears to be sleeping through it. - Clip Played:
Rubio: "He's the only leader in the world...tremendous credit for the transformational aspect of our foreign policy..." (39:11) - Franken cracks:
"He was asleep the whole time." (39:48)
9. 2026 Midterms Outlook
- Democratic Optimism:
With Trump at record-low approval (36%) and Democrats’ overperformance in off-year elections, the outlook is described as historically favorable for Democrats—unless, as Leibovich jokes, "they sabotage themselves." (42:37)
10. Reflections on Dick Cheney and Past Republicanism
- Cheney’s Funeral:
Leibovich attended the memorial, noting the odd political bedfellows—liberals and anti-Trump Republicans united. - Cheney’s Anti-Trump Stance:
Dick and Liz Cheney are highlighted as rare anti-Trump Republicans—Liz even campaigned with Kamala Harris. - Leibovich’s Assessment:
Despite Cheney’s divisive record, Leibovich paints him as principled compared to Trump’s “cartoon version of a tin pot dictator.” (51:47 – 54:04)"Say what you will about him...he did not care at all what anyone thought of him...didn't pretend to be anyone he wasn't." (54:04)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Hegseth and War Crimes:
Al Franken: "I think the first strike was illegal...the second strike, that just seems to me to be a war crime." (02:48) -
On Autocracy:
Mark Leibovich: "One is profiting from office. Check. One is cronyism...Check. Prosecuting or going after political enemies...Check...What categories we're missing in autocracy?" (23:09 – 24:11) -
On Pardons:
Al Franken: "He's made a lot of money on pardons...it was $4 billion." (19:58) -
On Trump’s Rhetoric:
Trump (audio clip): "Ilhan Omar is garbage. Her friends are garbage." (28:28)
Franken: "Trump is a detestable racist and has been his entire life." (02:48) -
On Cheney:
Mark Leibovich: "He struck me in an odd way as a real stand-up guy...didn't pretend to be anyone he wasn't...he had a shtick...it always killed." (54:04)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:31 – Show opens, recent scandals overview
- 07:09 – Hegseth and Signal Gate
- 08:40 – Yemen operation, national security breach
- 12:30 – Drug boat strike, legality, ongoing inquiry
- 17:42 – Trump’s pardons: Hernandez, Cuellar
- 19:58 – Financial profits from pardons
- 23:09 – Corruption and autocratic traits
- 28:28 – Trump’s attack on Somali immigrants (audio played)
- 31:29 – Ukraine negotiations, foreign policy doubts
- 39:07 – Rubio’s Cabinet praise, Trump sleeps through it
- 41:02 – 2026 midterms preview
- 46:41 – Cheney’s legacy, funeral, and impact
Conclusion & Closing Remarks
In classic Al Franken style, the episode takes listeners on a fast-paced and sometimes gallows-humorous tour through America’s shifting political landscape. The discussion spotlights the alarming normalization of corruption and authoritarian behavior under Trump, the complicity and confusion inside the Republican Party, and the sense of surrealism enveloping Washington. Mark Leibovich’s firsthand reporting brings humor and perspective, while Franken’s unique voice—blunt, sardonic, and dedicated to public service—grounds the show in a mix of outrage and hope.
For listeners: This episode is a sharp, entertaining, and illuminating deep dive for anyone looking to stay informed—and both amused and appalled—about the state of US politics in late 2025.