Podcast Summary: The American West (MeatEater)

Ep. 21 – How You Create a New West, and a New America

Host: MeatEater | Guest/Narrator: Dan Flores
Original Release: February 10, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the pivotal role Theodore Roosevelt played in shaping not just the American West, but the nation's relationship with its wildlife, wilderness, and public lands. Historian and writer Dan Flores draws parallels between Roosevelt and Thomas Jefferson, focusing on Roosevelt’s transformation from an eager young hunter to a foundational conservationist whose policies defined modern environmentalism in the U.S. Along the way, the episode explores Roosevelt's personal journey, the birth of the Progressive Movement, the beginnings of conservation law, and the complexities of Roosevelt as both a product and shaper of his times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Theodore Roosevelt: The Adventurer and Early Life

• Roosevelt’s Formative Influences: Born to an elite New York family with strong scientific leanings—his father was a Darwin disciple and museum founder—Roosevelt’s childhood was marked by travel, collecting, and a fascination with wild animals.
  • "[Roosevelt] wanted to train as a naturalist..." (6:30)
• First Encounters With the West: Although an accomplished hunter in the East and abroad, Roosevelt’s perception of the West as the ultimate frontier led him, at 25, to seek out and hunt what remained of the dwindling bison herds in the Dakota Territory (1883).
  • "To Roosevelt, cultured men looked to Europe, but manly men looked to the west for their inspiration." (7:57)
• Man of Energy and Privilege: Roosevelt channeled his patrician privileges into a life of action, aspiring to emulate heroes like Audubon and Humboldt through both exploration and naturalist writing.
  • "He can do anything he wants to do. And what he decides...is he wants to be a naturalist." (40:57)

2. Conservation Epiphany and the Crisis of West

• The Disappearance of Wildlife: Roosevelt’s romantic ideals collide with reality as he witnesses the near extinction of buffalo and rapidly declining game.
  • "In fact there is not much game. Buffalo were gone. Elk and deer and grizzlies weren't far behind." (13:08)
• Catalyst for Awareness: Encounters with progressive contemporaries, notably George Bird Grinnell, propel Roosevelt toward deeper environmental thinking.
  • "With Grinnell's coaching and friendship...Roosevelt launched the intellectual journey that would ultimately transform America..." (16:26)
• From Hunter to Conservationist: Direct experience of loss—both ecological and personal (the deaths of his mother and wife)—fuels Roosevelt’s passion for protective measures and writing.

3. The Progressive Era and Conservation Law

• Progressive Backdrop: Roosevelt’s conservationism was a core part of a wider Progressive Era response, which advocated that government should regulate corporate and capitalist excesses for the public good.
  • "Progressivism...was a movement...that prevailed in both parties...that capitalism...was a scary force...and it needed to be corralled and reined in some." (41:52)
• Birth of Federal Wildlife Protection: Via the efforts of John Lacey and landmark laws like the Lacey Act, the federal government began its regulatory role in protecting wildlife and curbing market hunting.
  • "At long last, a federal law stopped the shipping of slain birds, animals and their body parts..." (21:40)
• Roosevelt as President: Upon McKinley’s assassination in 1901, Roosevelt became president at 42—the youngest ever—a crucial point for conservation policy.
  • "If celebrated, individual freedom was...the very cause of the destruction of America’s animals...then expanding government power...was the only course..." (23:03)

4. Roosevelt’s Policy Revolution

• Building the Public Lands System: Roosevelt massively expanded national parks, forests, monuments, and wildlife refuges—over 230 million acres of public lands.
  • "Eight years, Roosevelt removed more than 230 million acres...and transforming the future of the country..." (27:18)
  • Notable Numbers: Six new national parks, 172 million acres of national forests, 18 national monuments, 51 wildlife refuges.
• Key Motivations: To save the creatures and landscapes that he believed were formative to American identity.
• "Conservation for the Greatest Good": Roosevelt envisioned conservation as a democratic good—public lands for the greatest number, for the longest time.
  • "He would develop programs wherein the federal government would conserve American nature for what he called the greatest good, for the greatest number, and for the longest period of time." (17:40)

5. The “Nature Faker” Controversy & Darwinism

• Debates on Animal Intelligence: Roosevelt clashed with writers like Seton and London, who depicted animals as sentient, reasoning beings.
  • "Simply enough, the nature fakers were misleading their readers, he told the public..." (32:11)
• Limits of Progressivism: Despite absorbing Darwin’s scientific principles, Roosevelt resisted fully acknowledging the kinship between humans and animals (and different human cultures).
  • "Roosevelt believed the resonances...between animals and humanity...did not really apply to modern First World humans, only to tribal indigenous peoples..." (33:03)

6. Roosevelt’s Complex Legacy

• Complicated Heroism: While Roosevelt’s conservation achievements are extraordinary, he was also a man of his time—capable of views and endorsements now seen as problematic, notably on race and eugenics (e.g., his support for Madison Grant).
  • "He did do the Madison Grant thing, and he did say some unfortunate things...So I think that you can be critical and understand somebody in the past, but also try not to...just completely dismiss them." (52:39)
• Historical Judgment: Flores and the interviewer discuss the importance of contextualizing historical figures and avoiding presentist judgments.
  • "You have to think about people in terms of the times they live in...I have a difficult time...divorcing them from their time." (52:11)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Roosevelt as Action Hero
  • "Few things Teddy Roosevelt ever did were easy. Maybe that is why he gloried so in challenge. By sheer force of will, he turned himself from a weak, sickly adolescent into a hardy and robust Harvard undergraduate..." — Dan Flores (2:35)
• The Shifting Ethos
  • "In a violation of his western fantasies, Roosevelt was discovering that in fact there is not much game...He knew full well that it was, as he put it, part of the last remnant of a doomed and nearly vanished race." — Dan Flores (14:16)
• Conservation as Progressivism
  • "He would develop programs wherein the federal government would conserve American nature for what he called the greatest good, for the greatest number, and for the longest period of time." — Dan Flores (17:40)
• Roosevelt’s View on Animals and Evolution
  • "I believe the higher mammals and birds have reasoning powers which differ in degree rather than kind from those of humans. But...different in degree from the lower reasoning powers of...the lower savages." — Dan Flores, quoting Roosevelt (32:30)
• Modern Perspective
  • "You have to think about people in terms of the times they live in...I have a difficult time...divorcing them from their time." — Dan Flores (52:11)
• On Roosevelt’s Youthful Energy
  • "He’s less than 30 years old when he establishes [the Boone and Crockett Club]... how active he was from finishing at Harvard up until, you know, his early 30s." — Interviewer (38:55)
• Muir’s Stinging Question
  • "Mr. Roosevelt, when are you going to get beyond the boyishness of killing things?" — John Muir, quoted by Dan Flores (36:10)
• Authorial Reflection
  • "But Teddy Roosevelt still works for me. As an American hero." — Dan Flores (37:20)

Notable Segment Time Stamps

• Roosevelt’s Early Life & Motivation: 1:30–7:57
• Buffalo Hunt & Conservation Realization: 8:47–14:35
• Rise of Federal Wildlife Protection: 17:01–22:30
• Roosevelt’s Transformative Presidency: 24:17–27:18
• Nature Faker Controversy & Darwinism: 28:55–36:47
• Discussion: Roosevelt’s Character & Legacy: 38:19–54:06

Conclusion

This episode presents a nuanced portrait of Theodore Roosevelt as both an emblematic figure of Western adventure and the architect of American conservation, highlighting the messy, energetic, and often contradictory nature of his accomplishments and ideas. Flores frames Roosevelt’s legacy as foundational—linking reverence for wild places to the birth of federal environmental stewardship—while also urging listeners to understand even great heroes within the context of their times.

[End of Summary]