← The Amy Porterfield Show
The Amy Porterfield Show
#748: Married To An Entrepreneur: A Sit Down With Hobie’s and My Relationship Coach
00:52:14
Getting real about relationship struggles, learning to communicate better, and finding balance as a female entrepreneur.
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- [00:00]
Amy Porterfield
You know, that's often true of women in business that not only are they, you know, reaching for the brass ring, but they're incredibly critical about what their work product looks like and they can tend to be perfectionist. And so if I can work with you to not be so hard on yourself, then you won't be bringing that into your relationship with Hobie. And that is going to make you a much more attractive and dynamic person to be in relationship with.
- [00:34]
Hobie Porterfield
I'm Amy Porterfield, ex corporate girl turned CEO of a multi seven figure business. But it wasn't all that long ago that I lacked the confidence, the budget and the time to focus on growing my small but mighty business. Fast forward past many failed attempts and lessons learned and you'll see the business I have today. One that changes lives and gives me more freedom than I ever thought possible. One that used to only exist as a daydream. I created the Online Marketing Made Easy podcast to give you simple, actionable, step by step strategies to help you do the same. If you're an ambitious entrepreneur or one in the making who's looking to create a business that makes an impact and a life you love, you're in the right place, friend. Let's get started.
- [01:31]
Sydney Ashland
Hey there.
- [01:32]
Amy Porterfield
Welcome back to another episode of Online Marketing Made Easy. I'm your host, Amy Porterfield, and today we're not talking about webinars, funnels, list building, digital courses or anything like that, but what we are talking about is equally, if not more important, and we're talking about relationships. So let me set the scene and I talk about this a little bit when I bring on my guest. But about six months ago, Hobie and I found ourselves really struggling with communicating with each other. Something was off. I couldn't figure out what the heck it was. And there were times we just didn't even like each other and it freaked me out. And with that, we decided to hire a relationship coach. And that is where my guest today comes into the picture. Her name is Sydney Ashland and again, we've been working with her for about six months and I thought it would be interesting if we had a conversation with Hobie and I as well as Sydney. So Hobie and I are here today and we're bringing on our relationship coach. Talk about freaking me out. It makes me a little bit nervous. And Hobie and I talked beforehand and I said, are you okay with me talking about this? Are you okay with me saying that? And we talked about all of that because we want to be vulnerable, we want to be honest and Share with you kind of what we went through and we also wanted Sid to be able to share what she does and how she works with couples. So that's what we're doing today. So a little background about Sydney. She's an accomplished entrepreneur, medical practice consultant and personal transformation expert. Expert with over 25 years of experience improving lives of individuals both personally and professionally. When she comes on, I'll let her talk more about her journey into coaching couples like Hobie and I. But here's what's interesting about her and what's special. So if you went to her website and we'll give her website at the end there is across the navigation bar, one of the options is power couple coaching. And she works with high earning female entrepreneurs, but also the couple in that relationship, both of them, whether it be husband and wife, wife and wife, whatever it is, the high earner and the other person in the relationship who is equally important but may not be the breadwinner. And if you are in that situation now, like if you. Well, a lot of people are, whether it's the man making the money or the female making the money, but especially if you are a female and you are the breadwinner in your relationship, the dynamics are tricky. Sometimes it's just different. So I think about, I was raised with a mom and dad that were married for about 25 years and my dad made all the money. My mom stayed home, she sometimes had some work that she did. But I remember most of my childhood my mom being home with me and they had very different roles. My dad didn't even wear a wedding ring, so I didn't even realize men wore wedding rings. Kind of weird fact, but like they are just very much his role and her role. And it was very clear. He was the boss, he called the shots, he made the money. And then it was my mom, me and my sister. So imagine my life today very different than that. And I still pull from things that I saw and learned as a child. So there's just things that I have to navigate in the situation I am in now. And there's things that Hobie has to navigate because he's in a situation where he's retired. So he retired from the fire department in San Diego about four years ago when we moved to Tennessee. It was great, great, great at the beginning and then it got weird. And that's where this kind of story starts today. But he's not used to not making money. He's not used to not being needed in a really important role like a firefighting role. And so things came up there which made our relationship tricky. So I just share this with you to say this is kind of where we're starting the conversation. But more importantly, I just don't want this conversation to be about me and Hobie and our issues and how we've worked through them. I want you to hear today, hopefully something that might be true to your relationship. Maybe you've been struggling, but you've been ignoring it. Maybe you know the dynamic is off in your relationship, but you don't want to address it. Maybe you know that your communication has broken down or it's just just not where you want it to be. I want you to pay attention today because coaching in my relationship was the best decision I've ever made and I will never, not not do it. Meaning every other Sunday we meet with Sydney as a couple and I want to do that for the rest of our lives. And that's a dramatic statement. I know. And maybe we'll go to once a month, a year from now or whatever, but I never noticed. Don't want a moment where Sydney or a coach like Sydney is not in our life because it's profoundly changed how we communicate, how we respect each other, how we love each other, how we do everything together and how we navigate apart from each other as well. And I just really think that if you are building a business, it is all consuming sometimes and it's important that you not only talk to somebody, but you check in on the relationships around you because I can promise you at one time or another, you can't go all in on your business and all in on your relationship all the time. One of them is going to suffer. I remember working with Tony Robbins and he always said there's nothing like 50 50, like personal and work balance doesn't even exist. So what if it gets way off track? What do you do? And that's where talking to somebody that knows you and your partner both is powerful. So we're going to talk about that today, so I won't make you wait any longer. Let's bring on our special guest, but also Hobie Porterfield is here with me today. But our special guest is Sydney Ashland.
- [07:44]
Sydney Ashland
Hey there, Sid. Welcome to the show.
- [07:45]
Hobie Porterfield
Hi, Sid.
- [07:46]
Amy Porterfield
Thank you. It's great to see you both.
- [07:48]
Sydney Ashland
Is really awkward to be here with you in this capacity because I'm used to being with you, talking all about our relationship in private, but we're taking it public today.
- [07:58]
Hobie Porterfield
Oh, boy.
- [08:00]
Sydney Ashland
So I set this all up in the intro, but I really wanted people to Hear how Hobie and I have worked with you personally and why it's meant so much to us. And I wanted people to hear from Hobie personally, his own perspective, and then, of course, mine. But more importantly, this isn't about Hobie and I. This is really about the important work you do with couples like us. So let's just start from the beginning. What did your journey look like? And actually, you're going to surprise me. I don't know all of this. So what did your journey look like to get to where you are today? What is your official title? What do you go by and talk about the work that you do?
- [08:36]
Amy Porterfield
Okay, thank you. Well, originally, this work started in the health care realm. I worked with physician as an executive consultant coach, helping them move from really large clinic settings and large hospital settings to more manageable settings that worked for them. And I love that work. And as I was initially more in the business side of things, more and more of the personal started coming up. Either personal relationships at home or even personal relationships at work and how to navigate that, until I found that more and more and more, I was working in that realm, not just with the men and women who were leaders in the medical care industry, but also with sometimes their families and then more personally with themselves in relationship. So that's how it started and morphed into more working with highly successful people, entrepreneurs and physicians.
- [09:46]
Sydney Ashland
Got it. Okay. And you are, to be clear, you're a coach, not a therapist.
- [09:51]
Amy Porterfield
I am a coach, not a therapist.
- [09:53]
Sydney Ashland
Yes. And actually, I love that it's been a unique experience with you putting your coaching hat on. I mean, sometimes it feels like therapy. I know you say it's not, but it feels like therapy. But also the coaching side, I'm used to working with coaches, so the coaching side of things has been really valuable for me as well. I just feel the difference. So I love that. I feel like we get a little bit of both, but let's. Okay, so let's back up a little bit with Hobie and I and talk about why we first started working with you. And then I want to talk about some of the main themes that come up in our coaching, but also I'm assuming in other people that you coach. So, first of all, I found you through my good friend Jill Staton. And she. I have to tell you something funny. She told me, I said, I'm going to have Sid on the podcast. And she said, the one thing I told you is if I tell you about Sid, don't tell anybody else about her. She Said, she's our little secret. I don't want the whole world to know about her because she's so amazing. And so I'm sorry, Jill, because here we are. Because I couldn't. I couldn't keep it contained. But I was telling Jill that Hobie and I were struggling. And I'll tell a little bit why I thought we were struggling. And then. You want to say your side?
- [11:02]
Hobie Porterfield
Sure.
- [11:03]
Sydney Ashland
Okay. We came to a point in about six months ago or so where our communication had fully broken down, and I didn't know what was going on. But where I first sensed it was, I would go out and meet with my girlfriends or go to a meeting outside of the house, and Hobie would say, what are you doing? Where are you going?
- [11:20]
Amy Porterfield
Who are you going with?
- [11:21]
Sydney Ashland
What's going on? And it was like, whoa, what?
- [11:24]
Amy Porterfield
Where's that coming from?
- [11:25]
Sydney Ashland
And it happened over and over again. And finally I said, what is going on? And why do you seem so agitated? And we can't even talk about things anymore? And so I was clueless. And in that moment, the conversation went on a little bit more, was like this. I remember exactly where we were standing. And he said, I am nobody's priority.
- [11:46]
Amy Porterfield
And I was like, what?
- [11:49]
Sydney Ashland
Because in my life, he's my number one priority. But if my husband just told me he feels like he is nobody's priority anymore, and especially mine, I'm doing something wrong. Something is broken for sure. And it scared me so much. It was the first time in my relationship, I thought, are we, like, having a problem? Like. And of course, I go right to, are we gonna get a divorce? Like, is this marriage not working? I went totally to the horrible side of it. And so right away, I thought, we need to do something in that moment. What did it look like for you?
- [12:20]
Hobie Porterfield
I was going through a few transitions at the time. We were now coming up on a little over six months with my mom passing. I don't think I realized the full impact of that until a good half year later. She was somebody that. When we moved to Tennessee, she was close enough that I was talking to her every day, like. And I. I. My mom's been my number one my whole life, but then also, our son's at college. He's pretty much on his course. Like, he's doing great, so. And you're doing great. But I'm now in this new phase of retirement where I don't know what that looks like, and I don't really. I didn't have anybody to really talk to about it or that I could talk to because I didn't know what I was talking about. I just knew I was in an. An uncomfortable place where I didn't have any confidence. For the first time, I just felt like I had no confidence, no direction, and it was daunting to me. So I just didn't. I. I'm not used to not having confidence. Things don't bother me. Everything bothered.
- [13:22]
Sydney Ashland
It was the first time in our whole marriage, we've been married almost 16 years that I realized my husband has lost his confidence. And he's like alpha male. So retired Navy seal, retired firefighter, always like in those types of jobs, helping people, serving people. Now he's retired. And Sid, you can talk a little bit to this because you really identified it. His whole world had changed and it came crashing on us and we weren't ready. And so anyone listening? Now you all have heard our journey of moving to Tennessee. Hobie retiring, so excited. In the beginning, it was so great. And a few years in and after your mom died, something changed. So that's where we called Sid.
- [13:58]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah. And that was the, the identity. I didn't have an identity. I could always identify whatever my profession was at the time. And, and I was fortunate enough that most of my professions have been something that everyone knows what it is, so I didn't have to explain it. I could just say what I was. And it was like, that's all I needed to say. Now I'm like, I'm retired. And people go, what do you do when you're retired?
- [14:22]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah, I don't know. We'd get up in the morning and I'd try to be loving and say, like, what does your day look like? And he'd get really defensive, like, oh my gosh, I just asking you, but in your mind, I was saying, like, you're doing nothing today. So there is this dynamic. I'm the breadwinner now. Hobie's retired and it affected us. So Sid, this is where Sid came in. So the first thing I would love for you to talk about is you work. You. Part of your work is working with high earning female entrepreneurs, correct?
- [14:49]
Amy Porterfield
Correct.
- [14:50]
Sydney Ashland
Why? Let's first talk about why them. Why us?
- [14:54]
Amy Porterfield
Well, I think because, you know, we've spent decades now focusing on equality and women are common in the workplace, but we still aren't always clear about our gender and societal norms. Even regardless of the genders in the relationship, there are always issues around that with regard to prioritization of work, united financial goals, feeling like there's equality and honoring of preferences and distribution of responsibilities. Because, you know, when a woman takes that role as high performer, entrepreneur, successful physician, it can be daunting to balance everything that they want and that you want in your life, because you want to have not only your career, but you want it all. You want, you know, the person on your arm. You want children, perhaps you want work, life, balance. And how do you do that?
- [15:56]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah, makes sense. So when coaching Hobie and I, and please be brutally honest, I told Sid she could say whatever she wants, and if I don't like it, I'll edit it out, let's be honest. But I want to be very vulnerable and very open. Sid, my audience knows me well, and I talk about Hobie so much. Can you offer a little insight as to what you saw with Hobie and I when we came to you? And is it. What do you typically see in these kind of situations? And you can speak privately about us, too. I know you'll do it respectfully, but.
- [16:29]
Amy Porterfield
What did you see?
- [16:30]
What I saw was something that isn't so unusual, which is the high performer, the woman who wants to be sensitive and caring and help support their partner, but does so by leaning in just a little too much, trying just a little too hard, almost taking on the role of coach yourself, you know, or the one who motivates and inspires. And then, you know, looks to see, is it working? You know, what's happening? And then, you know, the. Your partner in this case hopefully sort of feels a ton of pressure, you know, a whole different type of performance anxiety. Like, this woman is looking at me, and she's, you know, expecting something that she's not seeing. And I'm feeling a little bit off or a little bit uncomfortable with this place I am in. In my life. I'm in transition. And am I to interpret this as I need to get there faster, quicker, sooner? Am I to interpret this that I'm a disappointment? Am I at risk? Is she going to start looking somewhere else because I'm not filling her needs? So it creates more insecurity, and then the woman is confused.
- [17:54]
Sydney Ashland
Okay, absolutely.
- [17:56]
Hobie Porterfield
She.
- [17:56]
Sydney Ashland
I think she pegged us. Would you add anything to that?
- [17:58]
Hobie Porterfield
No.
- [17:59]
Sydney Ashland
No, that was. That was good.
- [18:00]
Amy Porterfield
That was good.
- [18:00]
Sydney Ashland
Sid, you know us well. So one thing that you said about leaning in. So one thing that's unique about your practice is when you met with us, you said, I'd like to meet with both of you, but I'd like to meet with each of you separately. And so we did that multiple times. And I continue to meet with you, I'd like to meet, like, once a month, but Hobie is meeting with you every single week. And the only reason I'm not is because I have different coaches. But Hobie is meeting with you every single week. And I just want to pause and say, my mom and dad got divorced at 25 years in because essentially, my dad refused to go to therapy and refused to do the work. So to know I'm married to a man that agreed to go to therapy the minute I suggested it and then continues to work with you week after week, I feel so very fortunate. So just. I know. I know.
- [18:47]
Amy Porterfield
That's a big deal.
- [18:48]
Sydney Ashland
So you two meet week after week, and we've met multiple times. And one thing that you told me is I said, okay, well, you know, Hobie, if he's looking for a passion or side work or he doesn't need to get a job, but if he's looking for something, I have this idea for him, and I know this person, and I've introduced him to this person. And one day you said, amy, I've got it. I've got it. Hobie and I will work on this together. And it was very foreign to me because you're right.
- [19:14]
Amy Porterfield
I wanted to.
- [19:15]
Sydney Ashland
You were being nice, but I wanted to control it all, and I did expect him to take my advice and do something with it. And that's demasculating. Is that the word? Is that a word?
- [19:24]
Amy Porterfield
Yes. Yes.
- [19:25]
Sydney Ashland
Would you say it is? I don't want to talk for you.
- [19:28]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah. The worth. It was a worth issue for me.
- [19:31]
Amy Porterfield
Yeah.
- [19:31]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah.
- [19:32]
Sydney Ashland
So what does it feel like for me to step out and you and Sid to work on it?
- [19:37]
Hobie Porterfield
I think it's been huge because it's like, without the dynamic of you and I, husband, wife, best friends, lovers. Lovers. Everything with Sid and I, it feels like I'm not trying to think my thoughts through as much. I'm just putting out there what I'm really feeling. And that's easier for her from an outside. This is me speaking for her, but from an outside perspective to be able to go, okay, let's take a look at that. We always make a joke, Sid, all the time about now in our. When we're having conversations, aim and I'll look at her and go, let's look at that.
- [20:10]
Sydney Ashland
He does do that a lot.
- [20:12]
Hobie Porterfield
That's it. That's my interpretation.
- [20:15]
Sydney Ashland
Let's look at that.
- [20:16]
Hobie Porterfield
Right, like, oh, crap. All right, I got something to work on.
- [20:20]
Sydney Ashland
Yes. So that. That's been a big one where Sid has guided me to say, like, step.
- [20:25]
Amy Porterfield
Out of it and.
- [20:26]
Sydney Ashland
And let's see if Hobie and I can work on this. And that has changed so much, but also what has changed in our relationship. And I want to be clear. Hobie and I talked before this. It is my podcast, so I'm running the show right now. But I don't mean to be super bossy, but we wanted to talk about the communication because our communication has improved. One million.
- [20:48]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah. You couldn't put a number on.
- [20:50]
Sydney Ashland
We're more respectful. We're more compassionate. What else?
- [20:54]
Hobie Porterfield
I mean, compassion is the biggest thing.
- [20:56]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah.
- [20:56]
Hobie Porterfield
We're now starting to see where you. I see where you're coming from before I turn it into what I think I saw coming from.
- [21:04]
Sydney Ashland
Yes, for sure. So, Sid, talk to me about what you've seen. Not just Hobie and I, with couples like us in the breakdown in communication. And based on your expertise, what do you see? And maybe some tips about what could help some people with that.
- [21:17]
Amy Porterfield
Okay, so I want to go back to something you mentioned, which is I sort of uniquely like to work with individuals as well as the couple in the relationship, because otherwise, I have found that it's just really too easy to get sucked into the dysfunctional dynamics, you know, because if you. If I don't really understand your point of view, Amy, and your internal experience, and I don't understand yours, Hobie, then I'm, you know, trying to play catch up in the session, and I often, you know, find myself entering the dynamic. So it's true that communication is one of the number one issues where things start to break down. And often that happens because people are tired. You know, especially the high performer feels like they're talking all day. They're making decisions all day. They're. They're just barely staying ahead of the. The game. And so, you know, talking it out or needing to listen and take time feels like it takes a lot of effort. But if we work individually first, and you feel heard, and I spend time reframing, asking questions, helping you to look at it from a different perspective, then when you see Hobie later, it doesn't feel as daunting. In fact, you might even look forward to it, because now you want him to hear what you just really discovered. And it's a new way of communicating. It's not the old way of assuming and presuming, which is what people mostly do, make huge assumptions based on habituated patterns. And that's what really takes away the dynamism in a relationship, is these habituated patterns, which then lead to disappointment because expectations aren't met. We still show up with the same expectations, playing out the same roles over and over. So I think the number one thing is to pause when you're communicating rather than thinking about what you're going to say next and trying to position yourself to insert that. Because when you do that, you're not really listening. So listening is a huge part of it. Secondly, to really try and focus on what the other person is saying that you can either empathize with or agree with. You may disagree, but you can often still find empathy. And if, if you find empathy, then often you can find those places of agreement. And that makes a huge difference because then you're not coming from polarized positions, you're coming from closer to the middle.
- [24:12]
Yes.
- [24:13]
The other thing that I find in relationship is that relationships are really focused on co regulation, even though we don't talk about that very much. CO regulation is finding that middle set point where we're able to communicate and engage with each other without either going to the top of the scale where we're activated or the bottom of the scale where we're shutting down. And it sounds a bit stereotypical, I know, but often women will go up the scale and become activated and men will begin to go down the scale and shut down a million percent.
- [24:51]
Sydney Ashland
That's us.
- [24:52]
Amy Porterfield
And when that happens, it's really, really hard to communicate, make agreements, step out of the habituated pattern. But if you become aware, oh, I'm moving up the scale, and then your partner invites you to come back down and move down through, you know, an invitation that makes a huge difference, or if you noticed Hobie starting to shut down, for you to say, Hobie, I realize I've just said a lot of words. In fact, maybe I've over talked. So I'm going to pause here and want to invite you to just tell me what you're noticing. Then he pauses. He doesn't continue to go down the scale, and in fact, in spite of himself, starts to move up a little bit. And before you know it, you're in the middle. That's a huge tool that couples can use. Those.
- [25:43]
Sydney Ashland
Okay, that, that's good because I. That's definitely us. Okay. Two things I don't want to forget. I want you to talk about what Sydney taught us about when I feel like I repeat myself a million times to you.
- [25:58]
Amy Porterfield
Like, you don't listen.
- [25:59]
Sydney Ashland
Like, Scout has an appointment tomorrow at the vet and you're like, oh, you didn't tell me. I'm like, I Told you five times. So do you remember what she taught us there?
- [26:07]
Amy Porterfield
But hold on.
- [26:07]
Sydney Ashland
Hold that thought. And then. But before I get there, one second, back to something that's so important that you said you kind of touched on it. Now I have to touch on it again. What is unique about your coaching in. And this makes me want to have.
- [26:20]
Amy Porterfield
More sessions with you.
- [26:21]
Sydney Ashland
So you see my side of it, too. That knowing us individually and then having us come together because. And this is. I want everyone to hear this. Who has ever thought about working with their partner, with a coach? When I go to Sydney and we have an hour long session and I can complain about Hobie, I could say, these are the things I'm frustrated with him about. This is what I don't understand. This is what's going on with me. And I could be fully honest. Sid does never. She said this from the beginning. She never goes back to Hobie and mentions anything that I said. But you know, the themes and the patterns that came out of our call. And you know me well. So when you're talking to Hobie alone, you have both sides. And you know.
- [27:00]
Amy Porterfield
Exactly.
- [27:01]
Sydney Ashland
That's huge because so many people listening right now, they go to a coach or a therapist. That coach or therapist has no idea who their partner is.
- [27:09]
Amy Porterfield
Right.
- [27:09]
Sydney Ashland
Right. No idea that other side of the story. And still that could be very effective. But this is unique. This is different. And I feel that that's why I was like, you have to come on the podcast. That's so very special about what you do. Okay. But do you remember what she taught us about when I think that you don't listen to me?
- [27:25]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah.
- [27:25]
Sydney Ashland
What did she say to do?
- [27:27]
Hobie Porterfield
Hey, can I talk to you for a minute?
- [27:29]
Sydney Ashland
I love that. And Hobie brings us up a lot.
- [27:31]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah. Because most of the time we're in passing. I'm in the middle of something. You're in the middle of something, and you'll say it to get it off of your list. And I'm not listening.
- [27:41]
Sydney Ashland
Like, he's busy.
- [27:42]
Hobie Porterfield
I'm doing something, so you'll tell me something that's like a descriptive thing. And I've forgotten before I even get out of the room because I really didn't hear what you said.
- [27:51]
Sydney Ashland
So, like, this whole thing of. Hey, Hobie, do you have a second? Can you. Can I tell you something? Really?
- [27:55]
Hobie Porterfield
That was a game changer for us.
- [27:57]
Sydney Ashland
We do it all the time. I mean, I do it a lot.
- [28:00]
Hobie Porterfield
Well, I think one of the things that I wanted to say about Sid that is awesome is so when Sid and I meet, when we meet individually, Sid, it's usually an hour. You are maybe five minutes of that, 55 minutes.
- [28:13]
Sydney Ashland
Oh, wait, what? I figured. You talked about me the whole time.
- [28:16]
Hobie Porterfield
That's why I'm sitting here. And from my perspective, what I like about it is we're talking about the stuff that I need to work on. So I'll bring up something that's bothering me, and even if it's you, it's more, why is it bothering me that I think about. But when Sid and I talk, we're not talking about you. We're talking about things I need to improve on. And for me, coach wise, when you say coach to me, like, having not had a lot of therapy and different things in my life, short of, like, my recovery in sobriety, but I look at Sid, and I'm like, she's a coach. Like, I think of her as a sports coach, where I'm like, hey, coach, how can I improve on this? This is what I just did. What can you do for me? And from my perspective, that opens up my window, because she's like, all right, listen, you know, you're doing this. You. You could try this. What's your perspective? What you're reading? I'm like. We're like, it's weird. I. To me, I love it, Sid, because we're not talking about. I'm not just on a call with you to complain about something that Amy does. No, I want to call to be like, hey, why does this bother me?
- [29:18]
Amy Porterfield
Right? And. And, you know, sorry for interrupting, but the one thing I would say there is one of the things that I feel like I'm. I'm pretty good at and I enjoy doing is identifying patterns. So if I can identify a pattern with you, Hobie, that you want to shift or change or that you're uncomfortable with, I know that if we get you to a place where you have internalized a better pattern, you're going to bring that pattern to the relationship, and then it's a win win. Then the relationship changes, because Amy cannot continue to show up the same way she already has or always has if you show up differently. People say that to me all the time. Well, I can only change me. So how is this going to change the relationship? Because if you show up differently and you've changed, the other person cannot possibly show up different the same way.
- [30:11]
Sydney Ashland
That's powerful. That's huge for us, huh?
- [30:14]
Hobie Porterfield
And that's what with us talking, the things that have been changing in our marriage is a byproduct. Of your and I coaching session. That's how I see it. It's not. We're working on our. On the relationship with Amy and I. We're changing certain things with me and.
- [30:29]
Sydney Ashland
Me, I. I've worked with her, and I feel like I've changed, too. It's not just you.
- [30:33]
Hobie Porterfield
Oh, yeah.
- [30:33]
Amy Porterfield
Like, I'm not putting it on.
- [30:34]
Hobie Porterfield
I'm just speaking.
- [30:35]
Sydney Ashland
A lot of women work to do.
- [30:36]
Hobie Porterfield
Mr. Well, I'm just speaking from my perspective with it's me.
- [30:39]
Sydney Ashland
It's me. It's all me. Yeah. So I love that you said that, Hobie, that I mean, that the session isn't. I don't only talk to Sid about you, and you don't only talk to Sid about me. That's so true. It's the things in our life. And I've actually have sessions with Sid where I talked about my insecurities, challenges with work, wanting to always be the best, but then being tired and sick of striving every minute and all this stuff. Like, we talk about that, but that all bleeds into our marriage. Like, it shows up very clearly. And so have you seen that, Sid?
- [31:12]
Amy Porterfield
Yeah, I have. And those are the really powerful parts of Amy. But then I'll bring another part, which is you're really hard on yourself.
- [31:20]
Sydney Ashland
Yes.
- [31:21]
Amy Porterfield
And so, you know, that's often true of women in business, that not only are they, you know, reaching for the brass ring, but they're incredibly critical about what their work product looks like, and they can tend to be perfectionist. And so if I can work with you to not be so hard on yourself, then you won't be bringing that into your relationship with Hobie. And that is going to make you a much more attractive and dynamic person to be in relationship with with.
- [31:56]
Sydney Ashland
So true.
- [31:56]
Amy Porterfield
And that reminds me, you and I.
- [31:58]
Sydney Ashland
Have had conversations of stuff that maybe I would have taken to Hobie to complain about. Like, I'm so frustrated with this, or this isn't working, or I feel insecure here. And although he is definitely someone that I go to a lot, if I could go to Sid, I feel like it saves us that we don't have to always talk about all my problems all the time. Would you agree? Yeah.
- [32:19]
Hobie Porterfield
I mean, for you, I would say yeah.
- [32:23]
Sydney Ashland
What do you mean? Why do you say it like that?
- [32:24]
Hobie Porterfield
That'll be another session for you. And I said you came to me.
- [32:30]
Amy Porterfield
And where I would go is that's where you're very different. For Amy, I think, yes. To have some place where she can use me as A sounding board and a reality check help so that she isn't feeling like she's bringing all the minutia to you and talking so much that you aren't really able to hear. Hear the important pieces. For you, Hobie, and for many men, it's the opposite. You need to bring more to Amy. You need to feel comfortable talking more. And so that's where that sort of inversion of. Of each other.
- [33:06]
Sydney Ashland
Talk a little bit more about that. And then, because that little exchange we just had.
- [33:10]
Amy Porterfield
I want to talk about codependence, Obie.
- [33:12]
Sydney Ashland
And I need a little extra help in that area. But. And I think some people listening too, as well. But. So you're saying a lot of the times, and tell me if I got this wrong. The women that you've coached, they're bringing so much and they want to talk about it. They're. They have this issue, that issue.
- [33:27]
Amy Porterfield
Talk, talk, talk.
- [33:28]
Sydney Ashland
And the men sometimes, or. And I know you do, same sex marriage.
- [33:32]
Amy Porterfield
I do, yes. Right.
- [33:34]
Sydney Ashland
But the other partner, I should say, is the one who's not bringing. What could really go wrong with that? I mean, I could guess. But what do you see as a coach?
- [33:41]
Amy Porterfield
Well, what I see as a coach is that one person then sort of has listening fatigue, you know, because they're the one that's listening all the time, trying to be the support. And over time can start to sort of tune out the relational pieces of it because they're listening to the work pieces. And so that's a slippery slope and one where I can really work with people to. To feel like communication is really powerful, not just talking. There's a difference between talking and hearing someone and communicating and listening.
- [34:21]
Sydney Ashland
Yes.
- [34:22]
Amy Porterfield
And it's.
- [34:23]
Sydney Ashland
It's been so interesting for. Hobie speaks up more. He tells me what he needs and wants more. And, you know, I'll be really vulnerable here. When we first started working together, do you remember the session where I was crying and I. You started speaking up more. You started to be not demanding in a bad way, but like, this is what I need, this is what I want. And I. We were in a session and I started crying and I said, I miss my husband.
- [34:46]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Amy Porterfield
Do you remember that?
- [34:47]
Sydney Ashland
I felt like Hobie was changing dramatically because now he had a bigger voice. He. He spoke up more. He almost like pushed on me a little bit where he used to let me just kind of, kind of run the show sometimes when it mattered. I know when you got sick of it, you'd put your hand up, but. And then all of a sudden you were different.
- [35:07]
Amy Porterfield
And I freaked out.
- [35:08]
Sydney Ashland
I thought, this Sid woman needs to take a hike. She's going to change my husband and I'm not going to be the center of attention anymore because he's putting his needs in front of mine. No, but that I was selfish very much. And I see that now, but that so much has changed since then, huh?
- [35:25]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah, it's been dramatic and I think a big part of it, too. One thing you're phenomenal at, Sydney, is I've never felt judged on anything I've ever said to you. I would say that my thought on any kind of coaching or anything like that, I always had that. The contempt prior to investigation with it. And I would always think, oh, I'm just going to get judged. They're going to tell me, I got this. This issue or that issue. And you've. You're better than anyone I've ever met in my life at being able to. You're listening. I've never felt judged, no matter what. That's pretty powerful. That, to me, is a big contributing factor to your success.
- [36:04]
Amy Porterfield
And thank you for that. One of the things I want to interject here is I also understand that people have very complex problems. And so I've dealt with couples where pornography addiction is an issue, where there are sexual issues, where the power dynamics have gotten really dysfunctional to the point of almost toxic. And it's really important for me to be able to lean in, listen carefully, and start to understand the wounding that's taken place so that we can sort of unravel that energy and get to a place where change is more possible, where, you know, you're not enmeshed or sort of tied up in all of the complexities.
- [36:55]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah. Yeah. You definitely have probably seen it all with couples. So I'm glad that you said that because some people are listening, might be.
- [37:03]
Amy Porterfield
Like, okay, but I've got a bigger.
- [37:05]
Sydney Ashland
Issue than you guys have right now. And so I know that you definitely have dealt with a lot of those. I'm so glad you brought that up. I wanted to talk about codependence.
- [37:13]
Amy Porterfield
Yes.
- [37:13]
Sydney Ashland
And we're going to be students here because we're still very confused. So you know how students. Hobie joked, like, no, I. I want you. I want to be the person you come to with everything. And we're together all the time, and we. I don't know, I just feel like we have some codependence. But he thinks it's great, and I know that it's not. Right. So can you please talk about what is codependence and why is it not. I'm guessing it's not a good thing in a marriage.
- [37:38]
Amy Porterfield
Right. I think that, you know, codependence, without getting into some big elaborate definition, and for me is sort of beginning to lose track of where you begin and end and where the other person begins and ends. It's bringing those dominant or submissive characteristics that are required in any relationship in sports, even, you know, we. We have to bring those energies. But what we really want is for there to be that place in the middle where we're interdependent, not codependent. So where it's not aggression or passivity, but it's assertiveness, where it's not controlling versus scattered, but it's confidence. And I have, you know, a whole list of characteristics that really help people begin to identify when they show up in the relationship in a more dominant way and when they show up in a. A more submissive way. So often going back to the communication dynamic, where there's a situation where the woman is talking, talking, talking, talking at the partner and the partner starts tuning it out, you know, then there's a certain level of passivity that creeps into the relationship, and then that's a big turn off. I'm not attracted to someone who's so passive. You know, have an opinion, make a decision here. And it's like the other person who has felt the control or the dominance sort of shrugs and says, well, I don't think there's space for that, or I don't think there's space for me. And so sort of baby stepping people again, to the middle, where you can be interdependent rather than codependent. And codependence at its worst becomes enmeshment, where, you know, the outside world is less and less welcome within your relationship, and you have very set ways of relating to each other that are easily threatened when any external source comes into the picture.
- [39:47]
Okay, so tell me this.
- [39:49]
Sydney Ashland
With codependence, does it have anything to do with, like, if I have my own things outside of our relationship, so I've got my girlfriends or I've got a hobby outside of Hobie, and I, and Hobie's got his things outside of me. Is that part of a healthy relationship that helps with keeping codependence out of it?
- [40:08]
Amy Porterfield
Yes, that creates interdependence. Got it. And where you rely on each other while also being highly independent. But if one person is, you know, has the social calendar and a lot of activity, and the other person you know, often it can even start with extroversion and introversion. One person is more of an extrovert, the other person is more of an introvert. And so we start then moving from that interdependent way where we appreciate the introverted's perspective and that they're more thoughtful and we give them time to speak. And the introvert really appreciates the extrovert who explains, exposes them to so many other experiences they wouldn't otherwise have. But if we get in competition, if we start shutting each other down and creating conflict around it, then we're more likely to create a codependent relationship that doesn't allow for that freedom of expression.
- [41:11]
Sydney Ashland
So good.
- [41:11]
Hobie Porterfield
And I want interdependence.
- [41:13]
Amy Porterfield
Okay, all right.
- [41:15]
Sydney Ashland
You got you.
- [41:15]
Hobie Porterfield
I keep saying codependence, but I'm like, no, Interdependence.
- [41:18]
Sydney Ashland
Is that what's called interdependence?
- [41:19]
Amy Porterfield
Yes, interdependence.
- [41:21]
Sydney Ashland
Okay.
- [41:22]
Amy Porterfield
You know, healthy. We want that healthy.
- [41:24]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah. And with us, Hobie and I do need to have hobbies outside of each other. It's interesting. Hobie's retired, and I know everyone listening. Most of you. Your other partner is not retired. So we have a different situation. But I have a very busy schedule. Most of it work, but a lot of it work, girlfriends. And we do fun things together, but it's work, and he doesn't have as much of that. So, one, we have to be careful with that. And that's probably why you didn't feel like a priority when I leaned too much into that. But also, you've been encouraging us to find things that we love to do together beyond watching Netflix. Right, Right. This bad habit of 6:00, 5:30, 6:00, I'm done working. I go downstairs, we make dinner, we watch tv, we go to bed, and that's like four days a week. And then on the weekends, if we don't plan anything, we're around the house, we enjoy each other's company. But you've really encouraged us to find things that we like to do together. Why do you think that's so important? We're together, we love each other, we're spending time, we're intimate with each other. Why is it important that we find things outside of our marriage or outside of the house?
- [42:29]
Amy Porterfield
Right. Because speaking to how you introduced some of the dynamics between you and Hobie, one of the dynamics was you were very active. And then when you were going out in the evening or doing things, you felt like you were answering 100 questions about where you were going and why. And so sometimes when women experience that, then what they, they do is feel bad, they feel guilty, and then they say to themselves, oh, I'm gone all day. I'm doing all these high powered things, I make more than he does. And so therefore, I need to be good and stay home and just join him in whatever it is he wants to do. And so it becomes this very codependent relationship where you're not really being the truth of who you are. And the other person often becomes sort of more passive aggressive in terms of then wanting you home more and more and more. And then it can start leeching into even your professional life. And, and that's why you need to hit, hit, pause, hit the brakes and be able to say, okay, Amy, you. You don't need to stop doing what you're doing out there. And Hobie, what would you like the relationship to look like? And Hobie might say, well, I'm not the extrovert that Amy is, but I really wish she joined me in some of the things I'm interested in doing. And there's the opportunity to say, oh, well, what about an invitation? What about exploring that? And then again, you join in more of that interdependent relationship versus staying in more of a codependent, resentful, passive aggressive place.
- [44:09]
Sydney Ashland
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:10]
Hobie Porterfield
And I feel like that was a place where we got stuck. We couldn't figure out what were the things we like to do together because it wasn't just like, the only reason we stayed at home and did nothing was we had different things that we like to do. So it was like we would both just go, well, she doesn't like doing that. Well, he doesn't like doing this. So we would get stuck. And then I think having a coach, it's weird how simple it is to have someone that's not in the equation look at you and go, all right, well, let's look at potential things you could do together. What about a concert? And we're like, oh, yeah, I never even thought of that. Like a simple idea. Like, well, what about going and doing this? And it was, it was like, well, that was helpful. Yeah, those are really simple ideas. But we were so knee deep in the problem that we just didn't. We weren't able to see what solutions were so true.
- [44:59]
Sydney Ashland
Because one time Hobie took me on a date to go curling, which is, if anyone doesn't know, a sport on ice that I hated. And we got in a fight afterwards. And I wish I could be the kind of Wife that's like. And I should have been. He's trying. He wanted to find something new, knew he got us out of the house. And I was frustrated. I'm like, I don't want to go curling. Like, take me to a nice restaurant, wine and dine me. And so you've helped us kind of find our middle ground for sure, which is wonderful. Sid, as we come to an end, I wanted to ask you, you know, we've talked a lot about Hobie and I, and I did want to share some. Some challenges we've gone through and the beautiful place we are and now. Would you agree with. Yes. Where we are now. And I always talk about Sid, when I share things. I tend to not share the oozy open wound situation when I'm in it, but I really love to share when it feels more like a scar. So we've kind of gone through it, and I feel like we have so much more to learn, but we've gone through a lot. It feels more like a scar, what happened six months ago and where we were. And so I felt comfortable sharing now. But you are a wealth of knowledge. You've worked with so many people, whether it be couples or individuals. I know I haven't asked everything. And is there anything else that the people that are listening, Lots of women that are building their businesses, but there's gentlemen listening as well. What would you say if they're struggling in their relationship right now and just really frustrated and not sure what to do?
- [46:28]
Amy Porterfield
Well, I think first of all, to tell yourself that vulnerability is the first step. And that vulnerability is acknowledging that you need help or that you need a different strategy. I mean, entrepreneurs, physicians, high profile individuals are used to identifying problems and moving in that direction. You can do the same thing in your relationship where you know, and in order to do that, you have to be vulnerable. You have to be willing to say, my business isn't hitting the targets that I want it to. You know, my medical practice isn't where I want it to be. And so the way to deal with that first is through vulnerability. And once you acknowledge there's a problem, then beginning to approach your partner and in vulnerability, express that you have concerns that this is what's going on. And be willing to listen to their perspective and their concern and what they might be willing to do with you. The other thing I want to insert here is there are many things that affect our relationships. And, you know, most people have had a lot of stress in their businesses. There's traumas that they have in Their past that they bring to the relationship. There's past relationship baggage that they haven't unpacked and gotten rid of. And so there are many sources for your conflict. It's not just that you're a bad person or that you're not good in relationship. There's hope. So get vulnerable first. Talk to your partner in that vulnerable space. Ask them for what they're willing to do with you and then look for resources.
- [48:15]
Sydney Ashland
Resources. And Sydney is one of those. So, Sydney, some people are going to want to talk to you. So where could they go to learn more about you and if they want to, to connect with you, where they.
- [48:27]
Amy Porterfield
Can go is my website, sydney ashland.com.
- [48:30]
Sydney Ashland
I encourage those of you who are listening that you're like, I need to talk to somebody. Believe me, it was not anything we wanted to do. It wasn't something that was on our list last year to this will be fun. But it was the best decision I've ever made. I think our relationship is stronger than it's ever been in all areas is.
- [48:48]
Hobie Porterfield
Yeah.
- [48:49]
Sydney Ashland
Would you agree?
- [48:49]
Hobie Porterfield
Agree.
- [48:51]
Amy Porterfield
We love you, Sydney.
- [48:52]
Sydney Ashland
We thank you so much for our marriage. And I hope that if anyone is in need, they'll reach out to you as well.
- [48:58]
Amy Porterfield
Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful to be here.
- [49:00]
Hobie Porterfield
Talk to you Tuesday.
- [49:03]
Sydney Ashland
Bye.
- [49:03]
Amy Porterfield
Bye.
- [49:04]
So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this episode. A little bit different than talking webinars, digital courses and list building. But I think it's just so very important to have these conversations. And although it's really awkward for me taking you behind the scenes and sharing my own experience, I want to do that because when others do it for me, when my mentors, my coaches, my peers share with me what they're dealing with on the side that is not social media, the things that you don't see, but the honest, tough parts of this, it makes me feel less alone and more normal, to be quite honest. So if you're struggling, I hope you know that you're not alone. And I hope you actually do something about it, whether it's reach out to Sid or reach out to anyone to get the support, anyone, meaning anyone you think would be a really great resource for you to get the support you need. You deserve it. You deserve it. Your relationship deserves it. And I promise you, you'll look back and think, thank goodness that I did that. All right, my friend. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next week. Bye for now.