← The Amy Porterfield Show
The Amy Porterfield Show
Design Like a Big Brand, on a Small Budget with Jen Olmstead
00:41:58
The Website Upgrade Your Business Has Been Waiting For
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- [00:02]
A
Hey there.
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B
Welcome to the Amy Porterfield Show.
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A
If you want to do something that's unlike anyone else, you are the only person that has the stories that you have to tell in your head. And so if you are trying to set yourself apart in your market, a great story is always going to be the thing that sets you apart.
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B
Many, many years ago, I found myself outside on the front lawn of this little condo I used to live in in Carlsbad, California, near San Diego. And I was out there in the grass, my bare feet and this top that I thought was super cute at the time. And I had hired a photographer off of Groupon. I don't know if Groupon is still around, but it was all the rage 15 years ago. And so I found this photographer on Groupon. She came over to my house and, and we shot some photos for headshots for my brand new website that didn't yet exist. And I had like plans that this website was going to be gorgeous. So we took these shots that looking back now, I cringe. And I thought the website was going to be great, but I forgot that I have zero design talent and really I'm not good at aesthetics. Like the house I live in now. I had to hire a designer or we'd be in big trouble. Like I really need help with making things look good. It's just not my expertise or, or even a skill I have, truly. So anyway, I decided why I thought I could create a great website. I don't know. But I put it together and it was horrendous. And I had that really ugly website for years. And I was the girl that didn't want anyone to go look at my website, which is great because back then social media wasn't as powerful as it is today. You needed people on your website more so than ever. And, and I didn't want to tell anyone. My website, like I literally was very ashamed. It's called website guilt. We've all been there, right? Well, these days you do not need to have website guilt or lead page guilt or sales page guilt because you can easily make all of those pages incredibly beautiful and just aesthetically pleasing to your brand. So why am I bringing this up today? Well, my guest today is the co founder and the lead designer. This is something I, I didn't know. I usually film my intros after I interview my guests. So I know what I really want to focus on just my process. So I just got done with this interview. I didn't realize she was the lead designer, which is really cool of Tonic site shop. So it's a brand known for its stunning customizable. That's the word. Customizable. Showit website templates and canva marketing templates. Marketing templates like opt in pages, sales pages. Thank you, pages, all that good stuff. So we're going to talk about templates today, but it's not the only thing we're going to get into. But I know many of you struggle with making these pages look good. No matter if you're just starting out, you've been at it for a while, it's a thing. So we're going to talk about templates and really how to get the most out of them. But also my guest today, she grew up on a 180 acre ostrich farm in Texas. We're going to talk about that for sure. Her name is Jen Olmstead and she learned the art of storytelling around around the family dinner table. Her dad often challenged her and her brother to retell their day in the most compelling way possible, sparking a lifelong passion for stories. She has an incredible newsletter. We're going to talk about that as well because, you know, I'm kind of obsessed with personal newsletters these days. And she launched her entrepreneurial journey by accident after starting in journalism and pivoting into design through wedding invitations and marketing projects. So Jen's work ultimately marries storytelling with strategic visual branding, helping thousands of business builders elevate their online presence, mine included. We're going to talk about where you will find Jen's talents in my world. So you've already seen them. I'll show you or I'll tell you about them as we get going. So she's a passionate advocate for designing your business to fit your life, often speaking about setting intentional boundaries and focusing on your zone of genius. Jen's weird. That's the word she uses. Marketing newsletter has a devoted following for its candid, humorous and actionable advice. You've got to check out her newsletter. It's exactly her personality. She's so fun. I wish I was best friends with her. We don't live near each other and she has the best hair on the Internet. It's true, she does. So if you don't watch this on YouTube, you gotta go check out YouTube today because this woman has the best hair ever. Okay, So I won't make you wait any longer. Let's go ahead and bring on my guest, Jen Olmstead. You've been on the show before and I want to kind of kick things off a little differently. So can we start by talking about the ostrich farms. Like, how do they relate to your life and the journey to entrepreneurship? Like, this is something we haven't talked about on the show before.
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A
We have not talked about this. Yeah. So lead with what makes you different. Right? Yeah. So I was raised on a 280 acre ostrich ranch in the middle of nowhere in central Texas. And my dad is like the quintessential visionary entrepreneur. And so he has this idea of like, you know what, the wave of the future. Not cows, ostrich. And the great thing about ostrich. Well, there are a lot of great things about ostrich, Amy, but like, they have, who knows every part of an ostrich. They have ostrich feathers. You can use the leather. You can. The meat is actually quite good. And so what could go wrong, right? Because a cow, cow can only have one baby a year. Ostriches have like tons of chicks. Now. There are like demonstrable problems with all of this because an ostrich's brain is actually smaller than its eyeball. And so it's Basically this like 500 pound creature filled with rage because it can't fly with a brain the size of an almond. And so that as a recipe for disaster. Whereas cows are like docile. Right. Like an ostrich can kill a lion. And so I grew up in this very entrepreneurial space where my dad was like bringing ostriches to the people. He had an ostrich newsletter that he sent out, Ostrich Monthly. I know. And I'm like, the parallels. Crazy.
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B
Love him.
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A
Yeah. So you can still find like articles about my dad who was like leading the package of ostriches. And if ostriches had turned out to be a great idea, then I think he would have been very successful. Unfortunately, the odds were really stacked against ostriches. And so I don't even remember what happened to the ostriches. I think they were like sadly sold off one by one and like the ostrich boom was over. But that was like the incubator for my little entrepreneurial brain of like, why not? Like, why not ostriches? Why not templates? Why not? You can, you can do this thing. If you're good enough at selling something, you can sell a large feathered creature that can't fly.
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B
I mean, if you can sell a large feathered creature who cannot fly, you can sell website templates customized at that. You could do that. So I love the parallels. Makes perfect sense. Also, I have seen those Tick Tock videos where those ostriches start going like a beeline toward their. Their owners, and it scares me. So has that ever happened to you?
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A
Yeah. So we saw an ostrich kick through the side of our friend's F150. Like, just.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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A
I mean, they're really quite scary. So it's one of those things where people are like, oh, that's so cute. You had ostriches. Like, I saw Swiss Family Robinson. Did you ride on them? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I did. You know, I grew up with, like, giving school kids tours of our house and, like, our ranch. And so it was just this, like, super unique existence that now when people are like, what's your fun fact? I'm like, I have it locked and loaded. Like, I am the only one in the room that has this story to tell. So I'm going to get as much mileage out of it as I can.
- [08:12]
B
As you should. I love that. And talking about getting mileage out out of that story, actually, it's perfect. For my next question, I want to talk to you about storytelling. So it's a huge goal of mine to get better at storytelling. I try to try to start each podcast with the story, which is maybe the hardest thing I've ever decided to do. But I've read all the statistics out there that says, like, have you ever heard that people only retain, like, 5 or 10% of information when it's facts, but when it's a story, they remember, like, 65%, 70% of it, which I love that stat. So I want to hear your take on this. How do you think about using storytelling in your marketing and content? And do you have any tips for making it feel natural and not forced? Because I'll take all the tips.
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A
Yeah. So I definitely grew up, like, telling stories around our kitchen table. And you did not say anything unless you had a good story to tell. And a good story had to keep people's attention because I had three brothers. And so it was like your floor was gone if you did not captivate your audience very quickly. So I very quickly learned, and my background is in journalism, and so I very quickly learned, like, wait a second. People will pay attention to a great story told well. And that's the case in design. That's the case in marketing. If it's a great story, people pay attention. It actually releases dopamine. It creates this loop in your brain where you're like, I have to know how it ends. And that's why, like, you'll End up watching a terrible Netflix show for 11 hours because you're like, well, I'm invested now. Like, this is it. So if a brand, if a creator can harness that same power, they get the same level of appointment television, right? Of like, I am sat. I am hooked up. I want to know how this ends. And so I think that's why storytelling is so vital to learn in your business. But I think storytelling has become kind of a keyword. You know, we all know, oh, we're supposed to be telling great stories. Right. Storytelling is what matters in our marketing. But very few people are like, well, and here is how you actually do that. But I think, like you just said, that's one of my favorite stats. Because when people hear a story, it actually releases dopamine and it releases oxytocin. So whatever it does, it bonds you to whoever is telling the story. And so that's why it. Every politician ever is like, little Susie in the cornfield. You know, that's what they use to make their point, is they tell a great story. It's also the reason you, like, find yourself watching that terrible Netflix show 11 hours in, because you're like, well, I'm invested now.
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B
And so I think it's called Ransom Canyon, for the record, on Netflix. It's horrible, and I watch it all. So, yeah, I get it. Yeah.
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A
Wait, that's the Minka, Kelly and Josh. That's like Yellowstone, right?
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B
Oh, someone said it. Wait, someone called it a poor man's Yellowstone. Yeah. That is so good. Yeah.
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A
Yeah, it definitely. I'm like, oh, somewhere out there, Yellowstone is like, that's adorable. Netflix. Like, nice.
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B
So true.
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A
Very cute. But. But you're invested because there's a story, and it's being told maybe well, not even that well. And that's the great thing is, like, you don't even have to be amazing at storytelling for this to be effective. And so my best tips for storytelling, number one is, is that basically, you have to think like a writer. And so you have to think like, what do fiction writers do? They do not intro their stories. They're not like, on a spring day, I think it was October 26th, but maybe it was 27th. It was a Thursday. They start with a dead body, right? There is a dead body floating in the pool. In video, you call this the Pope in the pool. Like, there's something that happened, and you immediately plunge into the story. And so every Friday when I write my weekly newsletter, I always start with, like, I put my foot into the carpet, and it was squishy. And like, the first line of the story has to make people want to read more, right? If the first line is like, it was October 13th, no one cares, right? So that information gap is what you want to create. You. I refer to it as opening a loop. So you're opening a loop in your customer's brain or your reader's brain or your listener's brain that says, something is happening. And now I won't be satisfied until my brain can close the loop. And so if you're just getting started with storytelling, that's one of my favorite ways to start, is just open a loop. Start in the middle of the story, delete your introduction. And you start with like, I couldn't believe this was happening again. There I was, soaking wet in a parking garage. You know, like, whatever it is, like, you're like, oh, what is happening? Like, I am investing, so delete your introduction. That's the best advice that I was ever given is just delete your introduction. Start with the dead body, start with the pope in the pool, and then go from there. And I think that helps it feel a lot more interesting. And that's what any good television show or any good writer is doing in their stories. One more thing about storytelling that I think is so important in this specific moment where AI is kind of taking over the world is that AI can copy your style all day long, right? AI can copy your design, it can copy your voice. It cannot tell your story for you. It does not know your story. And so your competitors, no one can steal the stories that you have. You're the only one who knows them. And so if you want to do something that's unlike anyone else, you are the only person that has the stories that you have to tell in your head. And so if you are trying to set yourself apart in your market, a great story is always going to be the thing that sets you apart. And so if you're not sure what to share, start telling your story over and over and over in a way that other people can repeat. AI can't touch that. AI can't replace that, and no one else can either.
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B
I love that you brought up your newsletter, because I have a brand new newsletter and you can bet I'm going back to every first sentence just to make sure it's juicy like that. So I'm going to take that with me for sure. But on your newsletter opt in page, you invite people to get get our famous weird marketing emails, which I love. So your newsletter feels really personal, like, I love it. And it's so true to you. So I want you to unpack this a little bit, because we've been talking about personal newsletters on the show, episode eight. So amyporterfield.com forward/8, if you're looking for this. We talked all about why a personal newsletter and how it's different from a traditional one. So I love that you're, like, a great example of this. But what did it take for you to stop writing what you thought you should write, which I did forever, and start showing up exactly as yourself? Like, how did that shift impact the effectiveness of your newsletter? And how did you get the courage to do it?
- [14:38]
A
I mean, it really started with me not writing my newsletter, really, Because I was, like, dreading every week. I know I have to write my newsletter. I know I have to send emails. The ghost of Amy Porterfield and Jenna Kutcher will haunt me forever if I do not pour into my email list. I knew, like, I knew that I had to do it. And so many small business owners we know, like, oh, the money's in the email list. Like, okay, like, here we go. But then what, right? You have an email list. Like, you have 12 people who've been like, yes, I want to hear from you. What do you do? And so I sat there and I was churning out the kind of emails that I knew that I was supposed to do. Like, here are top 10 templates. Or like, here are three tips for your websites. And I realized at one point no one had a gun to my head saying, send out another three tips about website design. Like, I.
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B
Are you sure? Because it feels like they do. But, yeah, I get it too.
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A
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, wait a second. I am. I'm a writer. I love to write. I've always loved to write. What do I do? On a weekly basis, I tell my friends about the crazy things that have happened in that week or the thing that I'm obsessed with that I just found out about, or the crazy story. So I was like, wait a second. What if I just start sending the kind of emails I would actually want to read? And that sounds really simple, right? Oh, like, I should want to read this. But that's become a rubric of like, wait a second. If I don't want to read this, why would anyone else, right? Why? If I don't think this is interesting, why would anyone else think this was interesting?
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B
And so, amen.
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A
It made a huge difference of like, okay, I'm probably not going to write the kind of email that Everyone wants to write because I'm a weirdo, right? Of, like, they may not want to read what I want to read. But I love a good long story, right? That's what I love, is, like a good long story long. And so I started. I will never forget, my first weird newsletter was about procrastinating and then seeing my email signature and realizing, like, I have to fix this immediately. And then mostly it was about Nick Miller from New Girl. And it was like, talking about how, like, I had such a weird crush on Nick Miller from New Girl and I didn't feel great about it. Cause it's like, wow, he's a scientist. Slacker. What is happening? And that newsletter got like 50 replies.
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B
And I was like, oh, I'm on to something.
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A
Wait a second. And so it just became. It became this thing where I got so excited every week to send out my newsletter because it was something I actually enjoy doing. And spoiler alert, we don't do what we hate doing. And so if you hate email marketing, there's probably a way to do it that feels great to you. Maybe it's like, hey, here are 10 things I found interesting this week. That's it. Here's my favorite meme. Here's a business tip. Here's like, one thing I've learned, or here's a crazy story. If you're like, to write like me, here's a crazy story and something that I learned from it. But whatever it is, make it something you would actually want to open on Friday. And chances are other people will look forward to opening it. And that is, like, the biggest piece of feedback I get almost every week is like, jen. Every Friday is like, jen, email day. Like, I know you're going to email me. I'm so excited. And like, if I can make someone excited about opening an email, I. I will die happy. Like, that's a great yes.
- [17:52]
B
I love that. Okay, so I want everyone to hear that. As soon as you just started sharing what you wanted to hear, that's when people started to reply. And the replies are my most favorite thing ever. So we did this thing in my very first newsletter where I talked about how my cmo, she shared that she wears jeans when she works from home. And she's so funny because I'm like, why? And she's like, it keeps me alert. It keeps me in the game. I'm like, you, like, torture yourself. So anyway, I asked my audience. 99% of my audience says, yes, she's a serial killer. Like, don't trust her because who does that?
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A
Fire her immediately.
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B
Yeah, right. And it was just such a funny exchange. I got so many replies, but I asked for the replies. That's another thing you gotta say, like, let me know. Hit reply. I want to hear. And I want to say one more thing about that. Some of my students, because they're very literal like I am, and they'll say, but, Amy, who cares if they're replying about jeans? They're not buying your digital course. They're connecting with me. So when I start talking about my course, they know we have a relationship and that we're kind of on the same page and we have a friendship. That's what matters. So that's. I never understood that, Jen. Yes. Talk about that a little bit more.
- [19:07]
A
That's the capital of, like, when people think about website, their friend needs a website. They started a business, who were they going to think about? Oh, their friend Jen, who emails them every week. And we've responded back and forth and had conversations are going to be like, oh, wait a second, you should beat my friend Jen. She had this crazy situation where her husband tried to assemble a robot from Target a couple weeks ago when it almost ended their marriage. Like, you know, it's so great. But that is what I hear all the time of, like, oh, I've actually been reading your emails for two years and I finally just saved up and bought a website template. Or, hey, by the way, like, my friend is just checking you out. I told her to read your emails. She's just bought a website from you. And it's because they feel like we've cultivated this relationship over time. We've built that trust. They know that I can be trustworthy because they've showed up in their inbox every Friday. I'm not asking them for anything. And that's one of the realities is, like, I seldom have a pitch at the end of these emails. It's just me writing to them. And people get that, they go like, oh, wow, like, this is just a gift. Like, this is just you connecting. And so then when I do pitch, and I'm like, hey, by the way, if you remember, here are our new website templates. You should buy them. They do. They're like, oh, thank you so much. You've cultivated this relationship. You've cared enough to respond to my emails. Like, you're the person that I'm going to invest with.
- [20:25]
B
Hey, real quick, before we continue, I've got to tell you about one of my most favorite resources. If you've ever thought, I just want My marketing to look as legit as my business actually is. Well then, welcome to Tonic. So Tonic has completely customizable showit website templates and Canva marketing templates that are built to make you look elevated and modern and, and like you seriously have your stuff together, even if you're still trying to figure it out behind the scenes. So I use Tonic for my book launch of two weeks notice and of my podcast launch of the Amy Porterfield Show. So the Amy Porterfield show. If you go to my website, that is a Tonic template, the one where I'm all in blue and it's all brand new, that's a Tonic template. So if I had the bandwidth, I would use their templates to redo my entire website. That's how much I love their design. Because their designs are, are not just stunning, they're strategic and they convert. So if you want your online presence to feel polished and professional and just like you without hiring a full time design team, Tonic is your new best friend. So to check out their templates and get a special discount just for my listeners, go to tonicsiteshop.com amy and you're going to find two exclusive templates that we created together. So that is tonicsiteshop.com forward slash amy. Okay, let's get back to the episode. Okay, so you don't have to get into details yet because I have a question around this, but true or false, the online marketing world feels different this year.
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A
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Could not feel more.
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B
I was like, okay. I was like, what if she says false and this whole thing is falling apart? Why do I do that to myself?
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A
What?
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B
But right, like things feel different. So we've got to talk about that. So what are some of the, the most effective strategies that you're seeing right now that are boosting conversion on like, let's say opt in pages, because you've seen some shifts. Like, talk about some of the shifts you've seen and what are some things we could do, especially when it comes to websites? Opt in pages, which you have the most beautiful templates for. Opt in pages. All of my list builders, which should be everyone. This is something I want you to check out for sure. So when it comes to turning visitors into email subscribers, what are you seeing has changed and what do people need to do?
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A
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing that I would say is I feel like the marketing funnel is dead. Right. People are aware of what we've been doing for the past 10 years. They're like, okay, here we go. So here's the free lead magnet. And then it's going to go to the email and then there's going to be a webinar and, and then you're going to ask for my money. And I know what's coming. And I think brands have been allowed to pay a short game for a long time of like, okay, come in, get inside my funnel, slide down like great, like here we go. And I think the problem with that is that it's also very difficult for most small businesses to keep up with. You have to have like a top of funnel strategy, a mid funnel strategy, a bottom of funnel strategy. And all of a sudden you're trying to spin all of these plates to get people to convert. And I think the biggest thing that people has changed is that the buyer conversion has gotten longer. And so there's been this time of like people would like find out about something, do a little bit of research and convert. And now we've stretched that out into a longer process where they're staying in that consideration phase for much longer. They're wanting to build trust and relationship over time because they're not going to so easily point with their money. They've been burned before. They, they bought courses, they bought products, they bought things that didn't work. And now they're saying I need to make a decision based on trust and based on relationship. And so where that comes in is having to create consistency. It's really having like the audacity to start saying the same things over and over until you are known for something. And an example I always use for this is Nike because Nike didn't say just do it one time, you know, and go like, okay, that went pretty well. Like let's go like let's go figure out our new thing. Right, let's do that. No, no, no. Every single campaign was tied. Just do it, just do it, just do it, just do it. And so when you think of Nike, what do you think of? You're like this is eponymous with this thing that consistency is now what's being created. And so I think there's this sense of like, okay, all of these multi passionate entrepreneurs that are doing so, so many things. People are just want to know like what can you do for me? Can you say it clearly? Can you say it over and over and over again in creative ways that make me go as soon as I need that I know where to go, I know who to trust and I know that I've built this relationship with a brand over time. And so I think where, where templates come in is we're allowing you to creatively be consistent and say those same things over and over in creative ways. And I think that's one of the biggest things that brands need to know right now is it's not going to be this short game of like, okay, you've read this thing, now buy our stuff. That's really not happening to the same degree. And that's, I think, the big shift that you're talking about. You have to stay consistent and you're going to need beautiful ways to do that over time.
- [25:41]
B
Okay, let's talk about those beautiful ways. Because you're the co owner of Tonic and your team creates the industry leading completely customizable website and marketing templates. Completely customizable is the key here. That is a real truth. They are so gorgeous. So let's talk templates. Can you share how templates can help entrepreneurs increase their conversions and step into a bigger identity and really own their brand, which is all the things that you've done. So why do templates do that? Or how do they do that?
- [26:13]
A
Yeah, I, I just believe that in this market you need to be able to move as quickly as your idea. Right. And most entrepreneurs are held back by their own design and marketing skill sets. Right? They have an idea, they have a great idea, they're building the idea, and then all of a sudden, at the very end of this idea, they're like, oh, crap, now I have to sell this thing right now. I have to, like, tell people about it. So that's where basically you need a design agency in your pocket to come in and say, hey, by the way, like, we've been doing this for 15 years. We know what's going to get someone's attention in a feed. We know what's going to make them convert on a lead page. We know what a sales page needs to have on it. You don't have to be an expert at that. You just get to have your idea. And so we've done. All you have to do is plug and play your content in. Let us take this one thing off your plate so that you can go from idea to execution so much faster, so that you can pivot and go like, actually, this messaging isn't quite working. I have great templates. I can change this messaging within seconds. Republish. Oh, wait, now the conversion is going up to 20%. Those are the stories that we hear over and over of like, hey, I had an idea Last night at 2am today it's on my sales page and you go like, yes. Like, that's what we need.
- [27:34]
B
That is so big. I know I'm dating myself, but I remember the days that I had to call my website developer and. And be like, I need to change this one typo. This is very true. I need to change this one typo on this one page. I had no idea how to do it. It's so crazy how easy it's become to just pivot quickly and make those changes and test things out. And these templates allow you to do that now. You and I recently got to work together. I felt so lucky. Okay, I gotta tell you all a story. So when my new podcast came out, the Amy Porterfield Show, I was looking for a new designer to help me brand this new show. And.
- [28:13]
A
Cool.
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B
Quite honestly, I want to brand my entire website. I just don't have the bandwidth yet. I have to stay focused on my projects. But I'm like, well, I'm not creating something that I don't love. So we're gonna just. We call it a sub brand because it's totally different than my major branding, but we're calling it a sub brand. So I called Jenna and I was like, who do you know? Who should I get? And she, of course, said, well, you know, we love Jen. And so I was like, I know, but Jen's. I can't hire Jen for this. I know you don't take on tons of projects. So I, like, hinted, like, so. So, Jen, who do you know who could do xyz? Crossing my fingers the whole time that she's like, me, I can do it well, because we have a good friendship, and you're so good to me. You said, okay, Amy, I'll do it. So I got to hire Jen to do it. And it's incredible. It's my most favorite ever. I'm so proud of the branding for Amy Porterfield Show. So if you're wondering who did that, this is the woman. Jen did all of that, and I just really love it. But the reason I bring this up is I was ready to evolve. I created the Amy Porterfield show because I want my conversation to evolve. I've been in this 16 years in online marketing made easy. I want to move on from that. And so I want to talk about evolving, because how do business owners make sure that their branding actually evolves with them as they grow?
- [29:31]
A
Oh, Amy. The number one thing that I hear when I meet people that makes me want to just stop and weep is, oh, Jen, please don't go to my website. Like, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. We've had conversation for 10 minutes. This person is clearly brilliant, talented, awesome. They're crushing it. You look at Instagram, they're crushing my Instagram. And then they're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, please, please don't go to my website. And I'm like, what? What's going on? And usually what's in this breaks my heart. Yes, it breaks my heart. And they have the sense of like, I mean, it's. I actually shame, right? Of like, oh, this isn't as good as it needs to be. And when you have, when you're carrying that amount of shame of like, oh, I know this isn't good, you don't show up the way that you do when you can be confident in how you look online. And so I've seen the difference of entrepreneurs who are, like, crushing it. And they're like, go to my website, right? Like, they're telling the grocery store checkout guy, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's gentlemen said dot com. Like, go to no go right now. Like, please just. I'll sit here and wait. When they have that confidence in how they're showing up online, when they have a brand that can evolve with them instead of one they have to, like, set fire to and burn down every five years, they have this ability to grow and have a website that represents not only where they've been, but where they're going. And I think that's really the goal is you don't want your website to feel like the you you were 10 years ago or five years ago, or, you know, it has your, your work that you really liked three years ago, or that font you really liked five years ago, or, you know, it has the review from your aunt you. Because you didn't have any real clients that five years ago. Like, that's usually what happens is our website goes into the kind of the state of disrepair. And I, I refer to it almost as like a game of toddler hide and seek, where we think if just because we're not looking at our website, no one else is, you know, like, no, no, I can't see it. Like, maybe it doesn't even exist. And. And the reality is, like, what do people do when they fall in love with you on Instagram? What do the people do when they read your email? The next click is to your website. That's where they're going to make a buying decision. That's where you're going to compare Amy Porterfield versus this course. Versus this course. They're going to your website. And so that's where I'm like, no, no, this can't reflect you. You were 10 years ago. This needs to be a reflection of what you're doing now, how you're evolving, how you want your brand to be portrayed in this marketplace. And that's again, where I think templates can come in, is like, when you can go in and say, okay, I have new headshots. They're on my website. I worked with this new client. It's on my website. I have this great idea. It's on my website. You have that currency of confidence of, like, this is who I am. I'm showing up proudly and confidently and saying, this brand truly reflects where I'm going. And I think that that was the case with your podcast page too. It was like, oh, wait, this is significant of like, this is a new era for Amy and how do we want it to be portrayed? That was such an exciting challenge to go. Like, this needs to not feel like everything you've done before. It needs to feel like something new.
- [32:35]
B
Yes. And it does. I'm so proud of it. It looks so incredible, and I can't believe you were able to put that together so quickly, but of course you were. That's your expertise with your templates that are customizable. So I love it. Okay, fill in the blank here. This is going to be a little weird, but I know you could do this. So if you think about all the entrepreneurs you work with, the people that want to build beautiful websites and opt in pages and sales pages and all this stuff, and if you were talking to someone and you said, okay, stop struggling, worrying, obsessing about X, and instead start focusing on why. Based on what you do and what you know and who you work with, what should people stop obsessing about and instead focus on, yeah, they should stop.
- [33:15]
A
Obsessing with all of their competitors in the market and. And then they should start focusing on what is the unique thing that they have to offer. That is the number one place where I feel that people get trapped is looking in the marketplace to see what is everyone else doing, especially in their own niche. And that's one of the things that we feel very passionate about. When I'm looking for website design, I am not looking in our market. I'm not looking at other designers who are doing what we do at other template shops. I am looking in the corporate space where for people who have websites and they have marketing teams that have budgets that begin with a B, Right. They are spending serious money I am saying, like, okay, let's look at what Nike is doing. Let's look at what Sweet Green is doing. Let's look at what Liquid Death is doing. Let's say, like, wait a second, these brands probably know what they're talking about, so how can I look at what they're doing, not my immediate competitors? And then what's our version of that? Right? Why do people come to tonic? What's our unique value proposition? What is the thing that we do when it comes to templates that no one else does? And I'm sure you do this with courses is like, there are other course creators out there, but you have to know, where is my unique market? Where is my customer? What do they need that they're not finding anywhere else? And when you can start saying that consistently over and over again of like, hey, we're the people who make templates that you can evolve with and that they are designed with the same level of strategy as brands with budgets that start with a B. That's our consistent thing is like, you know that you can expect that kind of top tier quality from our templates. That's what you won't find anywhere else. If we can say that over and over again instead of focusing on like, well, how's our design matching our competitors? Like, what does our content look like versus our competitors? Then I think people begin to see like, oh, you're, you're different. Right. That difference is. Is translated.
- [35:07]
B
H. So true. I love that. You know, I know you don't create all of your templates. You have a team. Right. But you've definitely had your hands in a lot of them. So I want you to tell me when we were, we were at an event together. What. Where were we recently when we were in that. Yes, that's right. I was like, where was I? And I remember we were talking about some creative ways that you've gotten ideas. What's kind of the creator craziest thing that's happened that's led to a design of one of your templates? Like, was it wallpaper you saw in a bathroom somewhere or on vacation? Do you have any of those stories? Because you're super creative.
- [35:44]
A
So many stories. I mean. Well, first of all, I do design the vast amount of the templates and that's something. Don't know. Yeah. Is that I am still like, that's what I was doing before I got on this call as I'm designing our new website template coming in June. So. So I, I am like, very high touch on every single Template that we create.
- [36:03]
B
Um, so I've not created why they're so great.
- [36:05]
A
So, anyway, I'm just. I love. That's what I love. And so at one point in my work, I was starting to not do as much of the design, and I'm like, but this is what I love to do. If I'm not doing that, what am I doing? But as far as inspiration goes, I'm. One of my favorite ones is I designed an entire website template based on an inflight magazine coming back from Greece. There was, like, this beautiful, random inflight magazine, and I was like, I want a template that feels like this. So I just took screenshots, and then by the time the flight landed, I had most of the template designed, because I was just.
- [36:37]
B
No way. Yeah.
- [36:38]
A
I mean. But also, tell me if you're the same way. I have never worked more productively than am I on a plane. Plane Jen is a different creature. Like, plane Jen is. Can do anything.
- [36:50]
B
No, I would like to tell you plain Amy is the same way. I have motion sickness, and so usually I just have to close my eyes, and if I'm not feeling nauseous, I just feel tired. It's the worst. Now I forced myself to work because it's like working on a Friday, right? I should be working on Friday, but once in a while, I do because it's so quiet. That's a plane. I'm so jealous of when people get off a plane and they're like, oh, my gosh, I just work for two and a half hours. I'm like, shut up. I'm so jealous. So, yeah, I'll stop bragging.
- [37:21]
A
I mean, stop it. My team has threatened to, like, just, like, get a. Get a plane seat and a sound machine and, like, trap me in a closet when I'm on a deadline and just like, okay. Like, you just go, yeah.
- [37:32]
B
It's so true. Okay, I want to know, are you plain? Are you a plain, effective worker or not? DM me. I'm at. At Amy Porterfield. I got to know. I'm pretty sure most people are like you. Yes. I just. Jealous, jealous, jealous. Okay, so we've covered a lot. I'm so glad. We talk about storytelling and branding and evolving and email marketing in general. Newsletters. Like, I'm so glad I wanted to talk about all of that with you, because, sure, you're a master designer, but you also should get paid billions for your copywriting. For the record, like, your website is so beautifully copywritten, and you have so many talents, and you're Doing so much right. So I wanted to cover it all, but we got to take it back to these templates. So I know you've created some incredible templates that make it so much easier for entrepreneurs to show up online. And you've even put together a few just for the listeners of the Amy Porterfield Show. And this is really fun. We got this idea when you and I were working together on my podcast. So can you walk us through why you created these specific templates for my listeners and what people can find if they go check them out? And I'll give you guys all. We're going to give you an URL. But talk about why this is so special.
- [38:41]
A
Absolutely. So this is the first time we've done a co created template of any kind. So this is like.
- [38:48]
B
I didn't know that.
- [38:49]
A
It's our first one. You're the first. We are the first. Um, yeah.
- [38:52]
B
I feel like such an influencer. You know how like an influencer, like works with like poppy. And then the name, like I'm tonic. And then my name, this is a.
- [39:01]
A
Big Amy Porterfield for Adidas is like, yeah, that's next for sure.
- [39:04]
B
Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah.
- [39:06]
A
So when we were working together, we definitely had this moment of like, oh man, so many people need a template like this. Your podcast page specifically. And so many people were just pouring in, being like, where do I get a template like this? Where do I get a podcast page like this? And we were like, well, actually we don't. We don't have that. And so we wanted to create a template that had the same general vibe. That's not your exact website. I'm not just going to like give away your intellectual property, however, it has all the same. It has the bells and whistles, it has the dynamics, all of that feeling of like, this is alive and scrollable and feels like a story. Story that you're scrolling. It definitely has that vibe. So that's the first template and then the next one. Since I knew that we were going to be talking about email marketing, the biggest thing that people struggle with so often is like, well, how do I even get people on our list? And so you are the queen of the lead magnet. That's something that we have worked together on. And so we created a freebie that says, how do you create your first lead magnet at 15 minutes or less? And that's your best tips and our best tips. It has a billion, billion ideas of like, here's what it could be. Here are a bunch of different titles to get you brainstormed, ready and so you can find all of that plus a really awesome discount on our templates if you go to tonicsiteshop.com forward/amy. So if you have a podcast, you're thinking about starting a podcast, you're forever being told you should have a podcast. This is a great template for you and you can find all of that and a little discount code just for the Amy Porterfield podcast listener.
- [40:34]
B
It she talks really fast about the website. So it's tonic site, shop.com forward/amy. It's obvious you said Tonic site shop a lot, so just wanted to make sure everyone knows tonicsite, shop.com forward slash amy. That's where you're going to find all the goodness. And look at all the other templates, the list building templates, the website templates. I know many of you want to upload your website. Do not do it without a template. And get it from Tonic. And she mentioned Show It. That's what we use. So if you guys are all wondering if we use show it, we do and we love it. And if you followed my book launch two weeks notice, all of that was built on Tonic and Show it just for the record. So just wanted to shout that out as well. Okay. So Jen, thank you so much for being here. This was an incredibly valuable episode. I so appreciate it. And I know those are listening. They're like, oh, okay, I'm ready to uplevel. I want to look the part. So they're going to go check it out. But thanks again for being here.
- [41:33]
A
Oh, so glad to be here. Thanks so much for having me.