← The Amy Porterfield Show
The Amy Porterfield Show
More Peace, More Profit: The Power of Walking Away From the Wrong Goals with Morgan DeBaun
00:49:51
The Bold Reset You Didn't Know You Needed
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- [00:02]
A
Hey there. Welcome to the Amy Porterfield Show.
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B
This journey is a journey and you have to keep going. So in order to have endurance, to live the life that you want to live, you need to be okay. You need to learn to be okay with the season that you're in. And not just okay. You need to then learn how to enjoy it, to embrace it, to find those tiny joys, those tiny moments every single day in your routine that are enough have. Because if it's constantly this big flashy thing, you're going to get burned out.
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A
Hey, real quick. If you're serious about creating a digital course offer, not just brainstorming it, but actually getting it ready to sell, then you need real feedback from the people that you want to serve. And I created five templates to help you do just that quickly because I know you are beyond busy. So these templates are designed to help you validate your idea with future buyers, whether or not they're in your world already, which is pretty cool. And before you put the time, energy and money into the wrong thing. So you can unlock these free templates@amyporterfield.com courseidea and let's make sure it's a yes before you build. That's amyporterfield.com for forward slash course idea. It was 2012 when I first realized I have built a business that I hate. I was about two years into building the business I have today, and I looked around and I thought, hold on. I feel like I've been sold a lie because this is way harder than I thought it was going to be. Way more time, effort, work, stress, energy. And I, I didn't think it was supposed to be that way. And at that time, what I did is I learned the art of less is more. That was the year that I said, wait, instead of having all these different offers, instead of having my hands in a million different things, I'm going to do just a few things really well and again, do less. And crossing my fingers that I could actually make more. And it worked. That year, I did the least I've ever done since when I had started the business a few years before and I made more money and something clicked for me. I thought, holy cow, I gotta figure this out and continue this. And along my next, what, 14 years after that, I've done a good job of staying with less is more. Except sometimes I get off track and I'll find myself back in that moment where I'm like, whoa, I've added too much. This has gotten a little crazy. I'M starting to dip into working nights again, or in my case, working Fridays, because we don't hear. And so when I see that happening, I look around and I think, where did I fall into the more is more trap? And it's a big red flag for me, and I got to kind of pull myself back, clean some things up, reset, essentially. And so I've done that multiple times. I think if you're an achiever like me, you. You're going to vacillate between. Right on track. Less is more. You're in the zone. Things start to kind of take over, big opportunities come your way, and all of a sudden, more is more and you hate it. And then you got to kind of reset and come back. So if you can relate to any of this, I'm glad you're here today. Because if you're listening, you're likely building your own business online, and that means that you've stepped outside of the status quo. Like, right, we're. We're doing things that most people would never do. And you might even be building something that doesn't really make sense on paper, but it makes perfect sense in your gut. So you've dared to believe that success can look different than the traditional nine to five, and that's a big deal. The fact that you even have taken that leap and you're in it now, you are a very low percent of the population, right? You're special. I'm just going to say you're special. And it comes with a lot of special challenges that you have to navigate. So my guest today is Morgan Debon. And she isn't just rewriting her own rules for what success looks like. She's helping a whole generation of women to do the same. So she's built a media company that reaches over 100 million people every single month. And she's launched brands like afro tech and 2190 and traveling noir. And she's raised millions in funding, all while staying deeply grounded in her mission and in her values. And now her voice as an author. So her new book, Rewrite the Rules, is one of the most honest, practical, freeing guide that I've read in a very long time. It's not about hustling harder.
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B
It's about.
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A
It's about getting radically clear on what you're actually here to do and building a business in a life that honors that. It's just a different way to look at it. So if you've ever felt like you're maybe outgrowing the business that you initially built or that success was costing you way more than you were willing to pay for. If you've ever had that moment. I absolutely have. Then this episode is for you. It's that reset that you've been needing. So let's get to it. We were talking off camera that we both are in Tennessee from California. So, you know we're like, the total cliche, right?
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B
We are, yeah.
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A
Sometimes I don't tell people I'm from California in Tennessee, because they're like, you're the one who brought all the people over here. Thanks for nothing.
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B
Yes, we're sorry for bringing private equity with us.
- [05:54]
A
Exactly. So sorry. But I have been really looking forward to chatting with you because everything that your message is, everything that my audience absolutely will eat up and they need to hear. So I kind of wanted to start with talking about seasons of life, because you're in a beautiful season of life. You've got a new baby. You're newly married. You're a CEO now, the author of this incredible book, which is. Has been incredibly popular. Rewrite your rules. So we're going to talk about that. But talk to me about seasons of life. Why are they so important to pay attention to? And what does yours look like right now?
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B
Yeah. Seasons of life and understanding what season you're in and then accepting that is one of the best ways to manage your stress and to make sure that you feel joyful in whatever it is that you're doing in the present moment. You know, I think society tries to teach us that we should be constantly looking for the next thing. We should be constantly. You know, you have a baby and someone's like, when are you going to have another baby? You know, and you get married, when are you going to get pregnant? And it's a constant pressure to continue to get to the next milestone. And I think that for me, I learned I was. I was pretty successful early on. You know, I started my company when I was 24, and I really followed that advice. Like, it was just constant. Fundraise, raise money from venture capitalists, buy a company, buy another company. And it felt like I could never do enough to even satisfy myself. Right. Forget everybody else. Even for myself, I wasn't satisfied. It wasn't until I was able to actually slow down and say, hey, this journey is a journey, and you have to keep going. So in order to have endurance to live the life that you want to live, you need to be okay. You need to learn to be okay with the season that you're in. And not just okay. You need to Then learn how to enjoy it, to embrace it, to find those tiny joys, those tiny moments every single day in your routine that are enough. Because if it's constantly this big flashy thing, you're going to get burned out.
- [07:59]
A
Yes. We talk a lot about what is enough on the show. And do you mind sharing how old you are now?
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B
Yeah, I'm 35.
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A
35. And you started when you were what, 24.
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B
You said 11 years of business.
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A
So do you. And you've had a really cool trajectory to get to where you are. Tell us just like, quick snapshot about kind of what your trajectory looked like.
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B
Yeah, so I'm Midwest girly. I went to School in St. Louis. I'm from St. Louis, graduated, moved to Silicon Valley, worked there for two years, and very quickly realized, I gotta get out. Okay. I had to give my notice, as you say. Yes. And. But I loved the idea of Silicon Valley of like, building products for millions and billions of people and using technology to do that. No one was building that for me, and no one was building that for women and people of color. So that was the beginning of blavity. You know, over the course of 10 years, I raised over $12 million. You know, we've had as many as 150, 200 employees, huge, beautiful offices in downtown LA, acquired three companies and done M and A and flip those businesses to grow them and scale them. So I've done a lot, you know, then I said, enough is enough. I got to take care of me. And that's when I relocated to Tennessee and moved here to Nashville. You know, it has a slower pace of life, but still a lot of ambition in this city. And I've really enjoyed that transition. But I think I did have 10 years of momentum behind me in order to be able to switch seasons and slow down a bit.
- [09:29]
A
Okay, so that's what I want to talk about. Do you feel as though from 24 to where you are now, along the way, have you kind of figured out what your enough is? And if so, like, how did you get there?
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B
Yeah, my enough is I've got a few different definitions of enough for me. One is owning my time and how I spend it and who I spend it with. You know, when you're working in a corporate environment, you actually don't really own your time. You're trading your time for, you know, the transaction of this direct deposit that comes every two weeks, which is quite lovely, you know, for many, many people.
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A
Love the security.
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B
Yeah, yeah, we love the security. You know, I don't think everybody's made to be an entrepreneur, but that is a transact, that is a trade off, and you don't have the freedom, you know? And I became an entrepreneur because I wanted the freedom to build and spend the majority of my time building and putting things back into the world that I felt like were meaningful. There is a moment in an entrepreneur's life, though, Amy, where you then start taking on other roles as a CEO that you're like. And you've talked about this on the show before, where you're like, wait, payroll, HR legal. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't sign up for this, okay? Like, I signed up to be the visionary, the founder, the person creating all the cool things, you know, the hoorah, the cheerleader. I didn't sign up to be the bad guy, and I'm the bad guy. And there was, you know, many years that I felt like I was the only person who could make tough decisions for the company. It was my responsibility. And that was hard for me, you know, So I had to figure out a way to allow myself to be happy and joyous and to be able to get out of that mindset of, like, this is a burden, when actually it is a privilege to lead the company that I live. Leave.
- [11:16]
A
Yes, for sure. So when you kind of transition, like, wait a second, this is such a privilege, did it kind of get clear about, these are my goals and this is enough for me. And sure, I want a lot, but. But I don't need to keep grinding and hustling because the season of life you're in right now, grinding and hustling, it doesn't really go with that.
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B
No, not at all.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yes. I think that there's a lot of external things that I was, like, aiming for a number in the bank account, a certain valuation or thing that I wanted to raise money for. Being able to walk the red carpet in LA with all these celebrities and have this perception of photo shoots. You hired the photographer, the fake paparazzi person to take photos of you and all of this stuff. And what I realized was that that actually did not equate to joy and happiness for me. It might have made other people happy, but it didn't make me happy. What makes me happy is, like, waking up and having a cup of coffee and going for a walk. What makes me happy is being able to have dinner with my mom and dad, you know, and them being 10 minutes away instead of being hour flights away. Just the small things. And those are things that were actually more in my control. Right. And I think that it's going to be different for everybody else. I mean, that's why I wrote this book, was to help people figure out for themselves what is enough for them, what does success for them, what rules do they need to rewrite for themselves now, financially, Amy, it's been interesting because sometimes when you make these adjustments, you actually wind up making more money.
- [12:47]
A
Yeah.
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B
Is that crazy? It's crazy. I mean, it's the law of the universe. But, like, that's also has been true for me. When I took myself off the rat race and I actually made myself less available, I was able to demand higher prices for brand deals for our company, for all types of things, and that has been really rewarding as well.
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A
Yeah, I love that. I want to actually talk about that, but I'm going to put a pin in that because I want you to. I want you to back us up a little bit. In your book, you talk about these six life pillars. So I was hoping you could walk us through each one of them and really what they represent and how someone might use them as a compass for making more aligned choices in their life and in their business.
- [13:31]
B
Yeah. So the six life pillars are basically pillars that I've created and that I've lived by to say, look, these are kind of the six fundamentals of life. You can only do three out of the six at any given point. So the six pillars, you know, you can't do everything, right. So the six pillars are wellness, passions, relationships, money, stability, and freedom. These are really important. So let's start with freedom and stability. So you want to work for yourself. Freedom. You want a direct deposit every two weeks. Stability. That's. That could be tough in the beginning. Those could be two tough pillars to pick in the beginning. So there's some pillars that don't make sense at different seasons of life, and you have to fluctuate them. I'm pregnant right now with my second child. So wellness is a pillar, whether I like it or not. This baby is coming. Okay, so she is on the way.
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A
Oh, it's a girl.
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B
It's a girl. We're so excited. So. So I have to do certain things. I have to go to a doctor's appointment every month. I have to make sure I'm eating well. I have to make sure that I'm working out. There are things that make this pillar one of the three, and if not, there will be consequences physically, mentally, and that's important to accept. Right. You can't fight some of the fundamentals of life in the seasons that you're in. And I think that for a lot of people, what happens is they say, I want it all, Amy. They say, I want all six pillars to be a 10 out of 10 in every single one of them. I want to be financially stable. I want to have the freedom to work on the beach and work remotely. I also want to have a bomb relationship with my partner. And then when they fall short, they're like, it feels like I'm trying really hard and I'm not able to make progress. And so what I recommend in the book and what I talk to people about is pick three at any point that you're working on. The other three can be a maintenance mode, but pick three that are your priority pillars right now and accept the season of life that you're in.
- [15:39]
A
So that reminds me something. When I used to work for Tony Robbins that he teaches is. And you might disagree with this, I want to know. He would say, sometimes when. Let's say you're thriving in business, it's pretty common that your personal life might be a little bit shaky, might be a little bit neglected, or when your marriage is so freaking good and you're madly in love, your health might be suffering just a little bit because you're cozy and those workouts aren't as important anymore because cuddling on the couches or whatever. With these pillars, do you see that sometimes happening? Where if you're focusing on these three, you might not be able to be strong in all areas because of the season of life you're in, or do you not look at it that way?
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B
I think that you can't necessarily improve the other pillars in the season of life that you're in. I think you can put them in maintenance mode. I have a beautiful relationship with my husband. I love him very much. But there are days where we just talk in the morning and we just talk at night because I'm not. I love him, but we're good. Like, everything is. Everything is cool. You know, we're. We're focused on the business. We're focused on, you know, our son. We're focused on whatever Afro tech or festival or thing that the business is launching right then. So I'm okay with something going on. Maintenance mode. The real question is, are you able to. Do you know when to switch pillars? Like, do you know when something's been in maintenance too long where it's. It's actually not advancing at all on its own? There's no compounding interest, no passive return from you putting It. Maintenance mode. I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, that's where they mess up. They. They take their eye off the ball for too long on some of the other pillars.
- [17:17]
A
Ooh, that's. That's good to know. I. I love that. I love that concept, maintenance mode. But don't. Don't ignore it. Don't let it go on too long. Okay, so something that I really love about your message is how you approach building a business with intention, especially when it comes to budgeting and cutting costs and staying scrappy in seasons of growth. So my audience will really eat this up because you've mastered the art of doing more with less. So can you share some of, like, the smartest, most impactful things that you've done financially or operationally? When money was tight, but the vision was big? Because you're talking to a lot of people right now where money is tight, but the vision is big.
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B
Right? So on the personal side, I think what's important is to understand the difference between being rich and being wealthy. Being rich means that you are accumulating cash, you're accumulating things, a lot of things that are external validators. Being wealthy means that you have the ability to use money as a tool to improve your life and to improve your joy every single day. And more people need to switch from being rich to being wealthy in order to actually maximize how they're using their discretionary income or their income at all. So, for example, I don't have a car. People think I'm nuts in Nashville. Really? In Nashville, in la, I did not have a car, Amy.
- [18:42]
A
Okay.
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B
Because the lack of freedom that I was going to have, having a car, having to drive around everywhere, sit in traffic all the time and energy, it would have allowed me to make choices about where I lived that was disconnected from work. So it was like, okay, well, you can live in the Valley or you can live in these places, but your office is here. You're losing all this time every day. And time was what I valued the most. So I moved two blocks, three blocks from the office. It had higher rent, but it also had a gym. So I didn't have a gym membership because I included it in my apartment. I walked every day, so I was super fit. You know, I could go to the grocery store and just pick up healthy food. I wasn't eating out as much as I would if I had lived out in the burbs and didn't have enough time to cook. So, you know, there's a way to look at your spending, whether you Have a lot of money or you don't, and figure out what are the things that actually bring you joy and what are the things that don't bring you joy. So I call this my wealth quadrant, basically. So it's high joy, low joy, high cost, low cost. Okay, so things that are high cost and high joy, you save for, that's your vacations, maybe it's your wedding. It could be, you know, all that stuff that, you know, you might need to pay, spend some money and save.
- [20:03]
A
For, that's high cost, high joy.
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B
Okay, we spent a lot of time thinking about that bucket. Right? Like, that's what makes it to Instagram.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
Then there's high cost, low joy. That's potentially your mortgage. That's potentially your car. That's potentially the graduate degree you got 10 years ago that you don't use. Okay. That bucket, we got to minimize that bucket. And we should look at it. We should look at it and say, hey, should I get an apartment? Should I. This house that I bought that I actually don't even enjoy, Should I rent my house and live in an apartment? You know, like, it's when you really start to question the things that society might say, well, that's weird. Why did she do that? Okay, then you have my favorite bucket, which is high joy, low cost.
- [20:50]
A
Yes. I want what's in that one. I want that one.
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B
There's so many things. My very mediocre garden in the backyard right now. I've got one side is thriving because the sprinkler can reach it, and another side that's like, quite.
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A
Sounds like what would be at my house.
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B
Yeah, yeah, but like my basil, my thyme. You know, I have lemon mint leaves that I'm growing and I make my own tea. And like my little dehydrator, air fryer situation. So much joy, very low cost.
- [21:19]
A
Okay, I like that. I feel as though if we had a lot of those, our life would be wonderful.
- [21:24]
B
Yeah. And I think for more people, we chase the high joy, high cost bucket. Agree. And we get drained by the high cost, low joy bucket. And I would just encourage people to. To. It's not about making more money necessarily, but it is about using the money that you do have in a way that is a reflection of the life and the values that you have, not how you're being perceived by everybody else.
- [21:49]
A
You know, that reminds me so often, I don't know if we really know what we really want, because if we really sat down and I've done this exercise recently, like, what do you want to create a beautiful life. It's actually probably less than I even thought I needed to get there, especially just as the world seems crazy and I just want to slow down. And I was telling you how we. We bought this property in Nashville. I hope I don't become a hermit, because I could also see myself going on property and never coming off of it. So I know we never know, but I really do think anyone listening, taking, like, the next time you journal, taking 20 minutes and just being like, what do I want? And it might mean that you don't need to work as hard to get, that you don't need to do all the hustling. You don't need to be chasing millions and millions of dollars in your business. And that is a beautiful thing.
- [22:41]
B
That's the most. That's the definition of freedom. Amy is like, that's it.
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A
Oh, my gosh.
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B
I don't need. Like, why was I aiming for this thing? You know, at one point, I was, like, really focused on selling the company. I write this in the last chapter of the book. I was like, you know, I was crying, I was stressed. I had my first panic attack because it was so counterintuitive to what my body wanted to do. But it was like the next natural thing. It was the only way that I could figure out how to get out of this burnout and this responsibility that I had. And as I went through the process, which took way too long, I realized, wait, I can keep this company. I can still be the leader of this company and do it under my own rules. And why am I. I'm trying to sell this thing? Because that's what we're taught in Silicon Valley, that, you know, you build a company for five to seven years and then you sell it, you give your money back to the investors. That's what we're trained to do. I'm like, but why? Why must I do that? Yes.
- [23:41]
A
Why can't I just create it on my terms and keep it going the way I want it to go? Yeah, there's power in that. Hey, real quick, before we continue, a quick word about our sponsor. I've got to tell you about a really cool model that I'm a little bit obsessed with right now. So it's called the working genius model. And I'm telling you, it's going to transform your work, your team, and your life. And really, it will do so by leveraging your natural gifts. So it's an assessment that I recently took. It takes, like 10 minutes, and the results, you can Apply immediately. You're going to discover how to increase joy and energy at work by understanding what your geniuses are. And it kind of blew my mind because I thought, this makes sense why I do some things and I hate doing them, and then I do some other things, and it fully lights me up. And it actually gave me permission to stop doing the things that totally drain me because now I understand why they drain me. So it's really good. So essentially, you're going to get more done in less time with more energy and joy. Yes, please. Right. So you can get 20% off a $25 Working Genius assessment if you go to working genius.com and just enter the code marketing at checkout. So you're going to get 20% off. It's 25 bucks. It's worth every penny, but you'll get a discount. Go to working genius.com and enter the promo code marketing at checkout. Okay, let's get back to the episode. So I told some of my students that I'd be interviewing you, and one of them had a question that she's like, please, please, please ask this one. So I'm going to read it to you. Okay. She says, when you were scaling from startup to an established, established business, how did you figure out which revenue streams were worth doubling down on and which ones to cut? I'm seeing multiple opportunities but have limited bandwidth. And I thought this was such a smart question. I think a lot of my listeners, they have a lot of opportunities coming their way, but they just aren't sure what to double down on and what to cut bait on. So what would you say to that?
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, so that quadrant I just walked through, high joy, low joy, turn it to high profit. Low profit, high effort, low effort. Okay, so in the beginning of your business, when you don't have that much time because you are the CEO, the administrator, you're everything. Okay. That you have to figure out what is low effort but high profit. And that then allows you to reinvest that profit in the things that you want to continue to do that maybe take a little bit longer to get off the ground, that have a longer, maybe return on investment over time, but it requires investment along the way. I think a lot of people want to jump straight to, well, we're going to be this big thing and let me build that big product. But you spend a lot of time and effort and energy and money getting there. And so it feels like you're just treading water. And when I talk to entrepreneurs and I look at their finances and I say, okay, well, walk me through which product makes the most and which one's the easiest for you to do. It is always the boring thing that they don't want to do that's not sexy. It's not the thing that, you know, they got out of bed to say that they were going to do that day. And I'm like, okay, let's do that for a little bit. Let's stack the bank account and let's use those profits to reinvest in something else that buys your time back so that you can continue to build your business.
- [27:09]
A
Okay. I love that you said this because, as you know, I teach people how to create and launch courses. And it's not just about that. My model really is. You take that course, you launch it again and again and again, and you get better each time, but you're doing the same thing. You're a dog with a bone again and again and again. And I know that's not super sexy. And when you're talking to a creative, they can get bored easily. But, dang, it works. And it's allowed me to do some pretty amazing things beyond that, because the money was there.
- [27:39]
B
Absolutely. So. And you know, Amy, I have to tell you, I've been listening to your podcast for. Since, like, the beginning.
- [27:44]
A
Like, oh, my gosh, love it long time.
- [27:48]
B
And I have a course, you know, I followed. Followed your world. I had a course and I built a membership. And then, you know, now I have a Patreon version of it. And I do completely agree with, like, you've got that thing, you've got that cow. You milk it, you know, because then you can refine it every single day. You can refine it every time you talk to someone. If you're constantly changing products, there's a learning curve every time you launch a new product. I see this in my business when Afro Tech, which is huge, you know, 35, 40,000 people at Afro Tech, when we switch cities, we lose money because we make mistakes. We're in a new city. You're learning a new city, you're learning new. You're making new relationships with politicians. You're making new relationships with the convention center. You have new vendors, you have new costs that are unexpected. So moving every year is a bad business decision. Even though if we feel like it's boring, it's like, no, we're going to stay in this city. We're in Houston right now. We're going to stay in Houston for a bit because it is good for business. It then allows everyone who Says, okay, well, I know the roadmap of this. Now I can go focus on something else. But if every year we're burning all that learning energy on the same thing, how does the business move forward?
- [29:02]
A
Amen. I'm totally with you there. One of the lessons I learned early on is if you continue to reinvent the wheel, everything you're doing in your business feels like you're starting over. Like, talking to the new politicians and the new city council and all of that, you are slowing yourself down. And so I do think it's not as fun all the time, but you know what is fun? Freedom and being able. Yeah, cash is fun. So, yeah, it's just a little tweak in your mindset. So I think someone needed to hear that today. Like, wait a second. Go back to the basics of what really works and spend more time there. Yes. I think you and I are both a great example of that. Talk to me about Patreon, though, because that's not something I teach, nor do I know a lot about it, but I actually subscribe to two of them. So why did you go there, and what does that look like? Like, tell my audience kind of what you've got there.
- [29:50]
B
Yeah, let me tell you my journey, because I think it's helpful. So I started with the course. Very much used your framework, where I just, like, DM'd people and said, hey, I'm going to run a group coaching call, like, once a week over a period of time. And this is the PayPal link. Like, sign up. You know, Cool.
- [30:09]
A
Scrappy. I like it.
- [30:10]
B
Yeah. Mvp. Everybody signed up. And then I recorded the calls, you know, took all the questions and all my answers. And that was, like, the baseline of my curriculum, which I call work smart. And I had so much fun doing it. Like, it was so much fun. I learned so much. Then Cohort 2, I said, okay, now we've got the landing page. We're on Kajabi. You know, we ran the funnels. This was still back in the day when Facebook ads were, like, fantastic, and it was kind of easy to launch. I think it's much harder to launch today than it was back then. And then fast forward, it grew a lot. My wait list was getting really long. And so I was like, you know what? One of the things that I'm noticing is that people are learning a lot from each other in these group coaching calls. I would love to facilitate that more. So we moved to Circle, and we built out our community in Circle, and I had a amazing program manager, Jasmine, who Did office hours every week and I did a call every two weeks. And it was great. But it felt like they really just wanted me. And at the time of the business, I didn't have enough time to give them what they needed. I also felt like a broken record. Like, I felt like I was saying the same thing over and over again and that I wasn't able to spend enough time with them for them to actually, like, grasp and apply the concepts. They could grasp it, but applying it was really difficult.
- [31:29]
A
Yeah.
- [31:30]
B
And so I felt like, okay, this is where I actually started to doubt myself. I was like, well, maybe the curriculum isn't right. Like, maybe these, these frameworks aren't the right frameworks. Like, you know, so I paused. I was like, let me just be done. If I can't get the results for these people that I want, like, I'm going to be out for a bit. Then everyone was like, when are you opening back up? I was like, oh, no, these guys are killing me. And then I heard you and Stu, you know, and I was like, okay, all right. I gotta figure out a model that makes this work for me. So we moved to Patreon. And I've really enjoyed Patreon because it's not a community, like circle, where there is a lot of all this community elements that you have to do and really try to upkeep all of this chatter and which I didn't have the capacity and I don't have the capacity to do it. But it does allow for a more simple framework where I just post information. So I'll say, hey, here's five grants that I've found that are good for entrepreneurs. Or hey, we just went to Blavity Fest. Here's the behind the scenes video. Or, hey, here's some stocks that I'm rebalancing. My portfolio, it seems like. And it feels like it's more of a reflection of. It doesn't have to be a structured. Like, on Tuesdays we do this. On Wednesdays we do this. No, we still have our monthly call and it's so fun. I call it all hands. But it has given me a lot more freedom to not feel as much pressure of the structure of the community, which I think some of the other membership platforms really require for it to be lively and energetic. The only thing I will say is that Patreon is adding a lot of features. So they're adding lives and different things. I'm not quite sure how much they're going to be able to keep up because Substack's also growing quite a bit. So that's my only other thing that's like, on. On my horizon is like, should we move to substack?
- [33:23]
A
How much do people pay you?
- [33:25]
B
They pay me $30 a month if they want the monthly call, and then a lower tier, like 4.99 if they just want the community. And we have over a thousand members.
- [33:34]
A
That's great. Remind everybody what you're teaching in that.
- [33:38]
B
So I'm teaching them the work smart principles, so, which is very much in my book. So, like, how to optimize your life. We talk a lot about AI. I show them all my tech stacks. We talk about business and how to grow your business, your income. And it is effectively how to rewrite your rules of your life using the different frameworks that are in your book but applied every single day.
- [34:00]
A
Fascinating. There's just so many different ways to get your digital programs of however they are out there in the world. So I'm glad you talked about that. We've never talked about Patreon here, so people might want to just go check it out and see if that's something. And substack, you're right, is totally growing quickly, so there's a lot of options there. Okay, I want to take a little bit of a turn, because another area that my audience is asking questions about a lot is how do I find a coach? How do I find a mentor? And so I would love for you to share how you've intentionally built support in the form of mentors and coaches and advisors around you and what you look for when you're deciding on who gets a seat at your table. You may be paying them or whatever, but you're choosing who's there.
- [34:44]
B
Yeah. There's a big difference between a coach, a mentor, and an advisor. And I think that a lot of people need to break that down. Break. Yeah. They need to understand that in order to make a decision on what's best for them in their situation. So most women and people of color are over mentored. Amy, like, we don't have a problem. We've got the person that we went to high school with and our college teacher and our pastor and all these mentors who want to give us advice. Mentors are great. Mentors are like emotional support people. Right. Like, you can call them, they listen. They maybe don't have any expertise in what you're asking about, but they're a good person to call for a stability conversation.
- [35:24]
A
Good sounding board.
- [35:25]
B
Great sounding board. However, they aren't qualified to give the advice that they're giving, they make you feel better. Right? Right.
- [35:33]
A
That's a good point. Yes.
- [35:34]
B
This is critical. Okay? A advisor and a coach, these are people who have experience doing and getting to the level that you want to get to. And these people are the ones who are actually going to be able to change your life in a way that allows you to accomplish your goal and your dream. I think more people need to find the advisors and coaches in their lives for all functions. So this could be wellness. This could be attached to any of the pillars, money, wellness, stability. You know, this could be your therapist that is a certified advisor. Right? You are a certified advisor. And for me, I have really sought to find more advisors because what has happened is that when I find someone who has already done what I want to do, for me, it feels huge. It feels like this big, hairy, audacious goal, this thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around. I'm like, I want to get to this in outcome, but it feels overwhelming. And no one in my peer group or my friend group has been there, so it's not like I can go ask them. None of my mentors even know what the heck I'm talking about. And then you go to this advisor, this coach, and they're like, oh, yeah, like that's normal. Because for them, they've seen it a hundred times over. And I'm sure this happens to you all the time when someone's like, of course. This feels so overwhelming. And you're like, no, not overwhelming. I do this every day.
- [37:05]
A
So true.
- [37:05]
B
The one that was really eye opening for me that I write about in the book is my financial advisor. I thought that I was doing really, really well. You know, I had kind of hit these milestones in my personal life and as a single entrepreneur. And I went to my financial advisor with like a pretty big ego. I was like, here are my results. What do I. Give me.
- [37:24]
A
Yes.
- [37:24]
B
Like, give me a pat on the back. And he was like, this is okay, but like, this is the beginning of a bigger stepping stone. And like, here's what this next phase of your life looks like and here's the things that you need to do. He was the person who helped me figure out how to get a mortgage as an entrepreneur, which is really difficult to do.
- [37:45]
A
It is, yes, very. So true.
- [37:48]
B
He helped me figure out, okay, like, you don't have a trust. What are you doing? Like, you have. You don't have these llcs set up, right? So I thought I was walking in because to my peer group I'm a star, but I'm like the brokest person that he manages, so. And you want that.
- [38:07]
A
Yeah.
- [38:07]
B
You want to be the broken person or you want to be the weakest link of your advisor or your coach, because it means that the capacity for learning and getting you to the next level is that much greater.
- [38:18]
A
Yes. So true. I'm all about the advisors and coaches. I want to touch back a little bit about women tend to have enough or maybe too many mentors. You said that. And I was like, huh? Like, oh, yeah. Especially when I was in my 20s and 30s, with less confidence, I let everybody mentor me. And so what have you seen? And what's like a red flag that maybe women's especially should look out for around all these people speaking into your life?
- [38:48]
B
You know, mentors have a special place, but sometimes mentors are just a mirror. They're just reflecting you back what you want to see. And again, at times that might be okay, but more often than not, if you're looking to make a change in your life, you need someone who's going to tell you the truth. The not just something that's going to make you feel better about yourself, and it's a personality. You know, some people don't want that tough feedback. Some people do just want a warm hug, and I love that for them. But if you're listening to this podcast, that's probably not you. Yeah, you probably want to keep growing. You want that tough love. You want somebody to say, hey, I see a lot of effort here. I think you're doing a great job. But here's the gaps that I see, and here's some ways. Let's walk through how to get to the next level that is really, really important. A mentor. They're not incentivized to do that at all. They're incentivized to have a long relationship with you where everybody feels good about that relationship.
- [39:43]
A
Yeah. I want everyone listening, men and women, to ask yourself, do you have guidance in your life right now where someone will call you out on your BS or someone will say, like, yeah, I see you made effort here, but this isn't good enough. If you want to get here, let me tell you the things that you need to do. Kind of like your financial advisor, and more than likely, you're paying for this coach or this Advisor. And so 99% of the time, you are. And I notice, I know that many of my listeners aren't ready to invest at that level, but it is something to keep in your back pocket because it's one of the best investments you could ever make is to find an advisor or a coach. And it doesn't always have to be one on one, especially when you're kind of easing into it and starting to make money. But I love that you just point that out. Because I bring it up, Morgan, because I think I'm a people pleaser and I respect a lot of people's opinions. And my husband will sometimes say, like, we'll be at dinner and this wackadoo is giving you all this advice. You make way more than him. You're sitting there, you're just like, huh, huh. And he's like, this is kind of probably about 10 years ago. But he's like, I see it all the time. I mean, it's driving me crazy. And I thought, huh, that's interesting, where I let everyone kind of just speak into me versus being really selective of who I invite to my table to give me the advising.
- [41:01]
B
That's right. And if you're in a season or a situation where you aren't, you don't have that discretionary income to hire that advisor or that coach. You know, I don't think you can underestimate the Rolodex that we have a lot of people in our lives. We've. We went to high school, we went to college with them, and we look at them a certain way because we're like, that's Jimmy from college 10 years ago. But Jimmy's a senior director at the company that he works at in paid marketing. So maybe there's a way that you can barter with your friend Jimmy and say, hey, Jimmy, can you give me some advisorship for, you know, just a few weeks? I'm trying to solve this problem, and in exchange, you're going to get this amazing sourdough bread. Yes.
- [41:41]
A
There you go.
- [41:43]
B
Or whatever offering you have. Okay. I remember when I was too broke, this was back when the Facebook ads thing was, like, really, really doing well. And I was like, I just couldn't figure out the, like, the cash flow of the Facebook ads to the courses. And I have a girlfriend. And I said, hey, can you run these ads for me? But you can be in the cohort. Because she was trying to figure out how to grow her agency and her business. It was a great trade.
- [42:08]
A
Yes. I love that they're absolutely. Look for the trades, because there are many of them out there. I love that. Okay. I want to ask you about your sabbatical, because I know you took a sabbatical, and that's where you realize that success was costing more than it was giving you. So talk to me about why you decided to take the sabbatical. What did it look like and what did you realize?
- [42:31]
B
I recommend that everybody try to find a time to take a sabbatical if they can. How.
- [42:36]
A
How long? What. What kind of length are we talking?
- [42:38]
B
You know, I think it depends on people, but ideally two weeks. If at a minimum. I did a 30 day sabbatical, but two weeks would be my minimum because the first week you're still working, so you need at least a one week to rest.
- [42:52]
A
Agree, agree.
- [42:53]
B
A sabbatical is different than a vacation. So I want to make that clarification because people are like, I'm on vacation for two weeks all the time. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about filling it up with, you know, selfies on a beach. That's not what we're talking about. A sabbatical is a period of time where you are resting and relaxing so that you can think and dream up the next phase of your life that's very different, creative. It's very, very different. And it inspires you. You know, it doesn't just recharge you. It inspires you to the next level of whatever your life is going to be. And you don't go into it saying, I'm going to spend 30 days writing my book. That's not a sabbatical. Okay, so true. Because we're all high achievers here. So we'll be like, this is my plan for my sabbatical, week one. No.
- [43:39]
A
Oh, yeah. Totally. In my audience for sure. And me, yes.
- [43:43]
B
It needs to be an open space of play and creativity and freedom. So during COVID when I was, you know, I just made it through one of the hardest years of pivoting the business. I called myself a wartime CEO because we were really at war with the economy. And then George Floyd was murdered. So then my business took a bit of a tailspin because of it was, you know, the world was crashing around us with COVID and there was this kind of heightened focus on equity and black audiences. So we had our best quarter ever in Q3, but our worst quarter ever in Q2, crazy time. And so we made it through that. And so in November, I said, your girl is out. I'm done. I'm tapped out. I'm done. I need to. I need to rest. I need to reimagine what this life is going to look like, because I did not enjoy that phase. And this was when I started to say, I'm out, you guys. I did it. It's done. I'm proving this to no one. You can have this company. So I went on sabbatical with two of my girlfriends to Costa Rica. And we spent 30 days just playing existing. I remember we went out to dinner in this cute little restaurant in the town. And the guy was just him and his dad and they were like, we caught this fish this morning and I said, oh, oh, can I go fishing with you tomorrow? And he said, yeah. So we went out on a fishing boat and caught our dinner and all this tuna. And I get so sick. Yeah. So fun, you know, just really. Just time to. To rethink what I wanted to do. And I journaled every day. And as a part of that experience, I realized this was when I needed to make a change. So I broke my lease in la. I was living at Hermosa beach. And I moved right after that sabbatical. I moved into my parents house and worked from their closet for a few.
- [45:31]
A
Weeks, few months, oh my gosh.
- [45:33]
B
While I was trying to figure out what I was doing in Nashville. And I just completely rewrote all of the rules of what I was living by. I wanted to have a family. I wanted to, you know, put myself in a position to meet a man where I could live a life that. With someone else. And I didn't feel like California or LA was that place for me. So, you know, a sabbatical sometimes tells you things you weren't expecting. I did not go into my sabbatical thinking I'm moving and leaving California.
- [46:02]
A
Isn't that wild? Your life is so different. You moved just a few years ago. You've got this new, amazing man son, a baby on the way, a new book, a thriving business. It is kind of crazy how life, how life can change so quickly. In the most beautiful way, it's a beautiful thing.
- [46:19]
B
I mean, that is how life works. If you let it.
- [46:21]
A
If you let it. That's what I was just gonna say. If you let it. So some. Someone's listening right now and they're. They're white knuckling everything they're doing, every decision they're making, and instead you let go. You took 30 days to just be. And look what happened. Like so many different things happened in your life. So I love that you mentioned that. I love that you talk about it in your book, because I think it's so incredibly important. So thank you for that. I do have one final question before we wrap up though. Okay. So if you could whisper just one thing into the ear of every high functioning, or I should say over functioning entrepreneur, probably mostly women, but over functioning entrepreneur listening right now. What would you say?
- [47:06]
B
I'd say everybody doesn't care as much as you think they do.
- [47:10]
A
Oh, tell me more about that. You're so, so right.
- [47:14]
B
You know, I think that again, I've said it a few times during this show. In this episode, we have become obsessed mentally with being perceived and how it looks and we think everyone is watching. No one is watching. No one.
- [47:30]
A
They don't care. They're thinking of themselves.
- [47:33]
B
Yes. Yeah, they are thinking. They're thinking in relation to themselves. They're projecting their thoughts as it relates to them. Not necessarily you. So really, really seek to understand what you want. And it sounds simple, but it is not easy. It sounds simple, but it is not easy to truly be someone who lives in peace with your own choices and lives your life for your own rules. And I would just really whisper in your ear and be that person on your shoulder and say, nobody cares.
- [48:10]
A
Nobody cares.
- [48:12]
B
Just, just, just.
- [48:13]
A
Do you? No one cares. And if they do, I love that you said through their own lens. So it's totally swayed anyway. So you're never going to get that 100% honest just about what they think about you. So don't worry about it. I love, I love that's, that's what your message is because it's so very important. Morgan, I'm so glad you came on the show and I'm very, very glad you wrote this book. Rewrite the rules. So tell everybody. Where should they go one to learn more about you, your podcast, where to find the book, all the good stuff.
- [48:42]
B
Yeah, you can go to morgandobond.com to connect with me to join the community if you'd like. I'd love to hear from you, hear what you're working on and see how we can help you. And you can get the book anywhere you listen or read books. Rewrite your rules.
- [48:55]
A
So morgandebon.com tell everyone how to spell your last name.
- [48:58]
B
D E B as in boy. A U n dot com.
- [49:02]
A
Perfect. I'll put it in my show notes as well. Thank you so very much for being here and congratulations on the success of the book.
- [49:09]
B
Thanks, Amy. Thanks for having me. Bye, everybody.