A (6:27)

I would love to, and it's. It's an honor to be here. I know I've been able to do this some with your mastermind women. So it's going to be fun to do it with your podcast community today.

B (6:34)

Yeah, you've been at the Millie Club twice now. They loved every minute of it. And so I thought, well, let's take it to the podcast. So are you cool if we just jump right in?

A (6:43)

Let's do it.

B (6:44)

All right. So a lot of my listeners are in a season where they're ready to scale, but they know doing more isn't the answer. They've already figured that out. It's not all about doing more. Now, you said you don't scale by doing more. You scale by being seen as more. I love that. So can you unpack what that really means and how we can start showing up in that way?

A (7:10)

Yeah. So for me, what this really means, and this came from my own revelation that I had, Amy, that I realized that the more that I kept trying to live for the likes and the applause of followers, the more that I would die slowly from the lack of it. And so I knew that I needed to get to a place where my value and my worth wasn't being constantly tied to what was happening on social media, which, if I'm Just being honest, at least from my experience and a lot of the women that I work with, that is hard. When your entire business and your entire quote unquote marketing machine and your message is on a social media platform, yes, it is really, really hard. And so I had to just get really honest with myself that we've been sold, we've been sold a few lies. But one of the lies was that scale really came from more of this tactical transactional output of visibility, more content, more funnels, more offers, more consistency of showing up. When the truth is, I don't think scaling comes from doing more. I think it comes from being seen as more. And what that means to me is that my audience doesn't buy my work. They mirror my truth and my worth. And the online space is already so saturated, I think, with women performing productivity, performing content, performing whatever it is that they think they need to perform to get the likes and to get the follows. Thinking that they're next level is just on the other side of that. But what I think actually scales us is that mirror messaging and what I mean by that is actually showing up and messaging and marketing and being seen from the true authenticity of who you are. Because when people feel that you are anchored and you are congruent and you are certain, they don't just trust you faster, but they buy faster and most importantly, they stay longer. But if we don't give them the opportunity to really know our truth and to really know who we are, it's going to actually dilute everything that we're putting out there. And so the real work is not about adding more strategy, it's really about subtracting anything and everything that dilutes that signal that you are putting out into the world.

B (9:34)

Okay, that, that's deep and I know we're going to get in even deeper with that. So. So you teach something called the Identity Elevation framework and it's where you guide entrepreneurs to recalibrate their messaging around three types of buyers. The former self buyer. This is fascinating to me. The former self buyer, the working self buyer, and the highest self buyer. So can you walk us through this framework and why it's such a game changer for scaling with clarity?

A (10:04)

Yes. Okay, so going back to kind of my own evolution of this when I really started to realize that I couldn't have so much of what I was doing and what I was seeing being dictated and tethered by followers and likes, and that I knew that if I really wanted to attract the women that I wanted to call in the women that I wanted to serve, that I needed to realign who I was speaking to and how I was speaking to them. And so this framework was really born from watching myself and so many brilliant women that I work with burn out. And it's not because of lacked skill, but really because they kept speaking to buyers, quote, unquote, who actually aren't buyers. They kept speaking to people that are not ready, mind, body and spirit to actually invest in their offers and services, because that was the safer way to show up and speak and share online and create content. And so what I know to be true now is that every message that you write, whether that's emails, sales pages, social media posts, every offer that you sell, every client that you attract, it has to mirror a version of the identity of the woman that you actually want to work with. And so this is where the buyer stages were created. So as you mentioned, what I uncovered from this is that there are three buyer stages that most of us, whether we're conscious to it or not, are actively showing up and selling to every single day. There's only one of them that really buys, two of them that one buys, one sometimes buys, and then there's one that never buys. And that's actually the one that most people are showing up and speaking to and trying to sell to every day.

B (11:43)

Okay, so right now then.

A (11:45)

Yes. So here they are. So the first one is who I call the former self buyer. The reason why I coined her former self buyer is because it came from this idea of this other lie that we were sold in online marketing. And I have to admit, I am kind of, you know, at fault for this myself. This goes back to very basic marketing, one on one. Who has ever told that we are here to serve a former version of ourselves and as long as we show up, we.

B (12:13)

I hear it all the time and I kind of believe it. So you're going to have to show me where I'm wrong here.

A (12:18)

But yeah, that we are just, we are best positioned to serve that person that we just used to be. And as long as we do that, we will never run out of clients. And what I learned through my journey and mind you, I have a major in journalism and communications with a minor in pr. I learned this in college. I remember learning this in college. This works for year zero of the business. Why? Because that's all you have. All you have is your origin story. All you have is your who you used to be and how you got to the other side of that. So of course it makes sense for you to to want to serve your former self, you don't really have anybody else to lend from. Where most people get mistaken and get caught up and really get stuck is that year two, year three, year five, year 10, they're still trying to serve this former self buyer, even though that's not who they are anymore. Even though they have a wealth of expertise and lived experience and frameworks and sophistication under their belt. And that's why they tend to get stuck. So this former self buyer, she is the buyer. She is the woman that is in survival mode. She buys to escape her pain. Or she's your window shopper or freebie finder that will download all those freebies to try to escape her pain. She needs constant reassurance. She needs step by step by step by step by step. And she needs so much structure. Not that any of this is bad, but if you stay speaking to her and your messaging and your marketing, your offers mainly go to her, you will always have to come from a place of convincing to sell to her. And that is so much harder and it takes so much time to do so. This is what I call your window shopper, your freebie finder. The person that needs a lot of convincing in order to make a buying decision. Then you go into the working self buyer. This is the type of buyer that is successful. This is why she's kind of. She can be a little sneaky because she's successful at what she does. She is smart, so there's more nuance to how she's approaching things. But she is still anchored in pain and over explaining that is the kind of messaging that she is attracted to. And so when we come from this kind of messaging, so this is the messaging that talks about step by steps and how tos and all of that sort of thing, you attract a lot of buyers who circle around a lot. They get really inspired and they sometimes buy, but most of the time they don't. And the reason why is because they are in that hustle mode. They are trying to do everything right, but they're feeling so misaligned. So even though they're showing up and they may be looking good on paper, they don't always have the right agency in that moment to convert at the level that you want them to convert at so you can really serve them at the greater level. So she's craving resonance, but what she's really attracted to is a lot of that step by step. And so the more content and messaging that you put out there that is highly over educational, that is over explaining oversharing, over teaching, the more that you're going to attract this type of buyer. And again, you can sell her but it takes a lot longer and it takes a lot harder to do so. So those are the first two questions about those two before we go to the highest self buyer.

B (15:44)

Are those two beginners? Could they be someone who's been in business for 10 years or someone who's been a mom for 10 years that wants to learn mom content or whatever? Where are they in their evolution to whatever you're trying to sell?

A (15:57)

Yes, great question. So I would say your former self buyer is typically in that year zero to year two of her business. Got it. You could have some have surpassed the quote unquote years on paper of their business, but they still have that what I call newbie energy. They're still coming and making decisions, including buying decisions from a very scarcity kind of beginner newbie space.

B (16:19)

But he said she's not in business but like one of my students will help you build a garden. So it's like she's never built a garden.

A (16:27)

She's never built a garden. She hasn't even gone to Ace Hardware to get the the plots to like build the garden. But she's expecting this bountiful, plentiful, abundant crop season. Right.

B (16:38)

Expectations, no experience whatsoever.

A (16:40)

Right. No experience to even like get herself to go to the place to get the tools together. Gotcha. Your working self buyer, she's probably gotten some of those tools. She's Ace Hardware. Maybe she did a little diy, you know, spring bountiful thing last year. She had some success with it. Maybe her cucumbers did really well, her strawberries didn't. So she feels like she's kind of doing all the things that she knows to do and maybe outside looking in it looks good, but she's still in that hustle mode and a lot of times that it's never enough mode. She thinks that she needs just another explanation, just another step by step. If I could just, you know, buy this course or maybe download this webinar or do this training or go to this retreat or you know, maybe pay for a one hour one on one with this person, then I'm going to have the answers to all of my problems and then I can make the next step. Both of these buyers too, they're still working in silos and again this just comes from their mindset and where their energy set point is. They're not looking for a true co collaborative experience. They're not looking to truly be expanded into their next level of evolution. Why? Well, it's a multitude of different things. Mindset, their nervous system probably isn't regulated. There's a lot of stuff happening emotionally and spiritually that they need to unlock and uncover. But coming just from the, the, the seller's perspective and kind of what I'm thinking of because my clients, they've got these amazing offers, they're trying to offer it to these amazing people, but because of how they're messaging, they keep calling in this former self and this working self buyer because of how they are either over teaching, oversharing, wanting to give away everything for free and they're not really using their messaging as the vehicle and the catalyst to call in what I call the highest self buyer. So this is the third buyer and what's important to know about this buyer is that she's not buying information. So if she's not buying information, then that obviously means that the content that you put out and the messaging that you put out does not need to be information first based. What she's buying is calibration. She's moving beyond tactics and she's investing in this platform place of proximity, alignment and power. She's wanting to really see how she can take her identity, her values and her resonance and really go to that next level that she's trying to go to. This is also the buyer who she doesn't need fixing and she doesn't need savings. So she's not going to be attracted to messaging like that. Be attracted to really premium, high level, even sometimes it feeling a little exclusive type of language to call her in because that's what she's looking for.

B (19:24)

Okay, so I want to get really clear if she's not looking for more information and you're posting on social media to attract her, if you're not posting information, what are you posting?

A (19:36)

You're posting what I call mirror messaging. So if you're not over teaching, you're not posting information. What you're wanting to post and wanting to share is the desire and the transformation that she's looking for. That's really essentially what you're posting. The way that you do that is through mirror messaging, which is a framework I have that essentially you have got to mirror exactly what she is looking for from the place of transformation and desire. Not most of the time from the place of tactics which is working self buyer or from the place of pain which is former self buyer. So, and we'll, we'll take pain point marketing because that's one that people Relate to. A lot of times people will lead their messaging with pain. So I'll give you an example. Let's say that you are a weight loss coach and you will say something like, aren't you so tired of not being able to lose those last ten pounds just by saying that statement? That message is going to instantly attract someone who is tired of not being able to lose weight. Even though your offer is meant to help someone lose weight and be excited and propelled and be ready and willing to lose the weight, you're literally calling in people who are tired and not losing weight. So guess who you're going to get? A bunch of tired people who, who are not losing weight, who probably aren't committed to that belief system that they, that it's actually possible for them. Maybe they've tried other things and it didn't work. So that that's going to take so much longer to essentially poke that pain, to have that person go from the belief of this doesn't work. I'm overwhelmed, I'm tired, I'm burnout. Nothing ever works for me to, oh no, this is actually possible. Or if that was a working self buyer, let's say that you're messaging, if you were going to attract that person in, it would say something like, here are the five steps. Need to lose those last ten pounds. So who you're attracting is someone who's like, yes, just give me the other step. What's the tactic? I need to know what's the strategy, what's the other step? But a lot of times with this type of buyer, it's never enough. Those five steps are going to then need to lead to 10 steps, which are then going to need to lead to 25, 30, 50 steps. And they're always going to be in this kind of seeking phase, looking for the next hack or the next trick or the next thing that's going to really get them where they want to go versus your higher self buyer. They are coming from more of this idea of, okay, I know that I probably need some steps because I don't know what I don't know. And I know that I can't lose the last ten pounds doing what I've been doing. So I know that I'm kind of in this point of frustration. However, I am actively looking for ways to get out of this phase that I'm in. I'm not just sitting around saying, oh, I'm overwhelmed, I'm frustrated. I can't lose the last time £10. I'm saying to myself, I can't lose the last £10. Now, what can get me or who can get me to that place to support me in losing those last ten pounds?

B (22:27)

Okay. I'm loving this because I just had this exact experience and it's a little bit related to you. So you know our mutual friend, Pamela House of health. Pamelyn is a health coach and I just started working with her in a 16 week program. I talk about it on my newsletter, but it's all about food and lifting really heavy weights. But I came into it like, I am so ready. I want to take things to the next level. I don't know how to do that. I'm needing some help. Put me in coach. I'm ready and I'm really coachable and it's been the best experience ever. But I. Because I've struggled with my weight my whole life, I have been in many situations. Like I'm desperate. I don't know what will ever work. I don't even believe I could ever get a better body. And so I come in so defeated already and then nothing works.

A (23:14)

Yes. And so this is going to be fun because Pamelyn's an actual client of mine who has gone through my messaging framework.

B (23:21)

Well, she nailed it because she attracted me and a few of my friends just like that.

A (23:25)

Exactly. But here's the thing. So the reason why she attracted this version of Amy in 2025 is because she used very distinct messaging to really mirror not only who you are now, but where you want to go instead of just attacking you with all the pain that you're already feeling. Here's the thing. We already know that we're in pain. We don't need to be reminded of it 10,000 times. And in fact, I think a lot of times we are more adverse to pain. Even though it can be kind of a marketing hack and tactic, at our core, we're more psychologically averse to pain and we're more attracted to desire. So when Pam came in to work with me about a year ago, we worked on these frameworks to make sure because I knew she wanted to attract the Amy Porterfield type buyers. So in order to attract that kind of woman who is is running successful businesses, have, you know, huge lives and families and are doing all of these amazing things and impacting people in a really big way and don't have a lot of time, we've got to cut through all that clutter and all that noise. And Amy Porterfield, buyer for Pamelyn, is not going to be downloading freebies. So we don't need to be creating 10,000 of them. She's not going to be wanting to know the five steps for her to go into her gym and do this. She wants you to help her do it. If she needed five steps like a working self buyer, then Amy would go and find that herself. She's probably already done all of that which has brought her to this place and now she's ready to be transformed and up leveled in a whole new way. And so we actually worked with Pamelyn on just some really simple nuances to make sure that she wasn't talking to and creating offers for that former self buyer or that working self buyer and only speaking to what is her highest self buyer, which in this case would be a woman like you.

B (25:07)

Wow, that is so cool. Okay, so for my listeners, I'm going to link to two things. I'm going to link to Pamelyn's Instagram and I'm going to link to Julie's Instagram because both of them are doing what Julie is teaching right now on the podcast. Julie, what is your Instagram? If someone's listening right now and they're like, I just want to go see it right now.

A (25:25)

Yes. So it's at Jules J U L S Solomon S O L O M O N. And I'll leave you with a, with a quick takeaway because, I mean I have a whole training on this because we really kind of go deep, got to go deep in it. I'm kind of giving you a quick bird's eye view. But for those of you right now, something just tangible that you can take away with as you're listening to this conversation is that I want you to kind of do a self audit. I want you to go and I want you to look at your five last five pieces of content. It can be a social post, it can be an email, it can be a sales page, whatever it is. And I want you to ask yourself if you're really being honest, who are you speaking to? Whether you meant to or not, who are you speaking to in that piece of content? Are you speaking to a former self buyer? Meaning the buyer that is in origin story mode, survival mode. She loves pain point marketing. She needs constant reassurance, she needs steps, she needs structure, she needs hype. She's that cheerleader that's always going to be like, you're so inspiring, but she never buys. Are you speaking to her or are you speaking to that working self buyer? Meaning are you giving her all the tips and tricks under the sun? All the hacks, all the teaching, but yet it's harder to get that person to say yes faster. Or are you talking to your highest self buyer? The buyer that doesn't want a ton of information. She wants that mirror, she wants that resonance, and she wants that transformation as quickly and as easily as possible. And you are able to get her to that with the calibration that your offers create. And so I just want you to kind of look through that and some of you may get stuck of like, well, I don't know who my highest self buyer is. And so if that's the case, at least you're going to start getting more clarity of like, oh, well, maybe I'm not speaking to my highest self buyer because I haven't gotten fully clear on who that is, but I now know that I'm speaking to my former self buyer and I definitely don't want to be speaking to her anymore.

B (27:08)

Okay, before we continue, quick break. I've got to say that if you've ever created a course or membership or mastermind, you already know the hardest part isn't the tech or even the content. It's the audience. Because without people who trust you enough to say yes, sales just don't happen. Right? That's why a podcast is such a powerful tool. It builds a warm, engaged audience who already knows, likes and trusts you. And by the time you launch any program, product or service, selling feels natural instead of forced. And the revenue comes in much easier. So this week, my friend Jenna Kutcher is hosting a free masterclass live. It's called podcasting 101. She'll show you how to create a podcast that not only grows your audience, but also fuels your revenue, even if you're starting from scratch. So save your seat@amyporterfield.com lab amyporterfield.com lab and let her walk you through everything from recording your first episode to making your first dollar with your podcast. If you've ever thought about podcasting, do not miss the this free live masterclass with my dear friend Jenna Kutcher. Amyporterfield.com lab okay, let's get back to the episode. We're going to keep going because I've got more. I want to really dig into this. So the way we sell online is shifting, and I think it's important to name that. You and I have seen major shifts. We went on a walk not too long ago. We talked about all the shifts that we're seeing. So selling online is different today. So you've shared a powerful distinction between speaking to non buyer energy and the ready now buyer. So can you break that down and how someone can start shifting their content to attract the right energy?

A (28:58)

Yes. And so I have to first share a story of how this came about because it was gut wrenching, but honestly, the best thing that could have happened to me. So several years ago, I was creating content and there was this one person in my world that she responded on everything that I posted. She opened every single email that we had. She showed up to every free training that I did, she downloaded every freebie. She was my biggest cheerleader, she was my biggest, you know, inspirer. And after a while of just kind of seeing her constantly show up and show up and show up and never buy, I finally just simply asked her because I was curious, like, hey, Renee, you know, I noticed that you've been constantly showing up in my world over the last few years, but you've never really like gone to the next phase. Is there something that's kind of keeping you from making that buying decision? And she simply said to me, well, Julie, I don't need to buy. You give me everything that I need for free and all of your content.

B (29:55)

Oh, the worst thing.

A (29:56)

That's why I love you so much, Julie. You're so inspiring, you're so helpful. You're my mentor that I don't have to pay for. And I was like, oh. And that was when I saw in myself and then I started to see it in a lot of women online. And then some of the clients that I started to work with was like, oh, this is the biggest mistake is that we keep speaking to non buyer energy. So non buyer energy sounds like you're so inspiring. You're on my vision board to work with one day. It's very hypey, it's very cheerleadery. But at the end of the day, they're not ready to buy because in order for them to actually get into a place of making a buying decision, they would need a lot of, again, proving, explaining, convincing and teaching. And that's what was happening with this one person. She was showing up to everything. There was nothing left that I could have explained to her or taught her or convinced her she was a non buyer. So it didn't matter what I did or said. She was not in a place to buy. I can't control that. That's the beauty of buying decisions. Most of the time people are not going to buy from you, but some of the time people are going to buy from you and they'll buy from you. Over and over and over again if you give them a great experience and great transformation. And so I knew at that point I was like, instead of wasting all of this time and all of this energy and all of this content speaking to people that have non buyer energy, why don't I just. Because I can't control that. But what I can control is really being so intentional and specific to only speak to what I call that ready now buyer energy. And to me, that feels like authority, conviction, clarity, really getting and owning audaciously what it is that you do best, really rooting into the specialization of that and letting that lead and again, letting people see who you really are. It is so easy to hide behind tactics and webinars and podcast episodes and tips and tricks and steps. But when you really decide to draw a line in the sand and start speaking out and speaking to the things that really matter to you when it comes to your work and the transformation that you offer, the things that really move you, move your clients, really coming from that place of conviction, I promise you, you will start attracting a different type of person. When you're speaking to non buyers. Your content becomes very nurturing instead of activating. And that's really what we need. In order for someone to make a buying decision, they have to be activated. And so you're actually babysitting resistance instead of mirroring possibility when you keep speaking to that non buyer energy. So the shift will come when you stop asking, how do I get this person to buy? Or what can I say to get more sales? And you start asking, who do I show up as, who I truly am so that my most premium buyer recognizes me as the answer that she's been waiting for. That is a question that will give you a lot of clarity because. Because ready now buyers, they don't need to be sold into your methodology or into your offer. They just need to see themselves in the transformation that you provide.

B (33:26)

Okay, I have a question about this. So are you saying though, that the ready to buy buyers that were or that ready to buy energy that you want to attract, do you need to be polarizing? Do you need to ruffle feathers? Do you need to make them feel like, ooh, that's stung a little, but she's right kind of feeling? Is that the way you do it?

A (33:46)

You don't need to force it, because again, that's going to be performative. So I'm not saying like start to go and create this really polarizing content if that's not who you are, but I think it's about really coming at it from a place of truth and conviction for you. And if that's polarizing for some, then that's fine. Because really, at the end of the day, if you are afraid to show up and to share what is your truth and to share what is on your mind, because you think that you're going to lose followers, or you think that people aren't going to like you, or you think that you're not going to make any more sales. You don't have followers. You just have fragile spectators that are sitting around watching you all day. And to me, Julie, a fragile spectator is never going to buy. So I need to show up as myself and I'll give you an example of how I did this, like last week. So I was on a call with a client of mine, or actually we were, we were kind of going back and forth in our slack channel and I could tell that she was spinning out. She was about to go into a launch. She was getting way too in her head. She was having this moment of friction. And so I offered her. I said, do you want to get on an SOS call? Because inside my accelerator container we offer. It's not publicized or marketed, but we internally offer what we call these SOS calls. And they're 10 to 20 minute calls that I will get on a call with my client on the phone, one on one, and just kind of give them this moment for this sos. So we'll call this woman, Barbara. She was having a freak out moment. So I reached out to my team and I said, emily, we need to get Barbara on an SOS call. So we scheduled a call for a few days later. I get on the call with her, I'm talking to her for 20 minutes while I'm literally making my bowl of yogurt, just reframing, mirroring, helping her, supporting her. And at the end of the call, she said, julie, I just want you to know that I have been doing this for six years. I have invested in so many different programs and containers and I've never once had a coach offer just to get on the phone with me and talk through this with me. When we got off of the call, that sprung something in my head. I was like, there's a message here, there's a piece of content here. So a couple hours later after work, I picked up my phone and I just did a talking head reel where I talked about how it's so interesting to me that people in the coaching industry and I put myself into this too, but they will have the audacity to charge tens of thousands of dollars to be in a container, but won't even have just the human experience of saying, hey, I'll get on the phone with you or somebody on my team will get on the phone with you to have this human, human connection because that's what you need in this moment. And so I just talked about how we as a coaching industry, if we don't see that part of being a coach and part of having this gift of doing what we do is to be in this shared human experience, we're missing the entire point. And I posted it and it went crazy. And it's not that it was polarizing, but it was because I was taking it from an angle that was, oh, she said most coaches won't do this. So let me share from that perspective. Doesn't make me better, doesn't make other coaches bad, but let me share from this different angle and this different lens that my client is experiencing. This is kind of how I'm mirroring, mirroring her experience in this moment. I turn that mirror moment into a piece of messaging and content, knowing that if that attracted her, then that's going to attract the other women like her.

B (37:23)

Spot on. So good. And I love that you just did it in the moment, Scrappy. You didn't script it. You're just like, here's a thought I just had. And I see you do that a lot. I have seen a major transformation in how you show up over the last few years. And I always thought you were brilliant back then, but you are owning. You walk the talk, what you're teaching right now, you do all of this, which is really cool to see. Okay. Also, I want you to talk about transformation versus transaction because you teach women to position themselves for transformation instead of positioning themselves for transaction. So what's the difference and how does that shift change the way we talk about our offers?

A (38:04)

Yes. Okay. So transactional marketing sells a product and transactional messaging sells a product. Transformational marketing and messaging selling sells an identity. So when you position yourself for transaction, you talk about the process. Again, we're going back to. This is very, this is going to attract that former self, working self buyer. We're talking about the process, we're talking about the step by steps, we're talking about our accreditations, we're honestly talking about a lot of things that don't actually matter to the transformation that they want to get. At the end of the day, it does not matter that I got a journalism degree in 2007 to help the person in 2025, 2026 that I'm helping get a transformation. And I think a lot of times we will want to either hide behind that or even as a buyer, I see a lot of potential buyers use things like that as an excuse to not invest. Well, you know, does this person have a master's here? Or what did they do do here? You know, do they have this accredited interest? It's like that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how many accreditations they have. Have they actually been in the field? Have they gotten their hands dirty and doing what it is that you're trying to do and getting you where you want to go. And so that's really where I talk about the process. We can get so lost in the process of things. And really, I think a lot of us use it as a way to kind of hide behind and stay small. Whereas when you position yourself for transformation, you start talking about the becoming and the refinement of. Of that. And that's why I always say you have to stop trying to convince people of what you do, and you have to start mirroring who they're meant to be. So, for example, I'll go back to that post that I made, the reason why I created that post, which might have been polarizing for some because I was calling out the very industry that I'm in. I'm calling out, you know, coaches that don't have the courage or the kindness just to get on a phone call. But at the same time, I'm also wanting to mirror who I want my clients to be, who I want myself to be. I want to hold myself to that caliber. I want to hold myself to that level. Now, yes, it's not going to be completely realistic for all of us to get on SOS calls with our clients all day and every day. That's not what I'm saying. But if I'm wanting to hold my clients and my industry and myself to this next level, I have to start mirroring that. So it's not about convincing people of what I do or that I'm the best at what I do, but it's about mirroring who they're meant to be, who I'm meant to be, who this industry is meant to be. Because when your brand and your messaging becomes a mirror instead of a megaphone, your clients don't need the convincing. They actually recognize themselves and self select themselves into what it is that you're offering. And it's, I think, too, it's kind of like the same Reason why you see a lot of really good tech talks or thought leaders that speak or even sermons in churches work better than strategies because truth will always bypass resistance.

B (41:11)

Yes. Amen to that. Amen. That's so good. Okay, so we started out this episode talking about scale, and I want to come back to that because you're the person who inspired me to scale differently this year by evolving my ideal customer avatar to grow with me and my offers. So I've talked about you on the show when you haven't been here, Julie, because I shared if anyone is an OG or they just listen to all my episodes. My avatar, her name is Hank, and I have Hank 1, 2, 3, and 4, and Hank 1, 2, 3, And 4. She's in different areas of growth in her business because I teach business. So it's really funny, Julie. This is how well this is working. When I'm in my Millie club or my made to scale mastermind, one of my members will come up to me and she'll say, okay, so Amy, my Hank too does da da da da da. She's just using it like it's a real thing. And it makes me so happy. So it's kind of really caught on with my community as well. But you taught me this. So before I give it all away, can you talk about what that actually looks like in practice?

A (42:15)

Yeah. So I think that what most people don't realize is that scaling isn't just about reaching more people. It's not just about volume. It is, but it's also about refining who you're speaking to. And the truth is, and this is kind of what you're. You're touching on, you will outgrow your messaging faster than your audience will outgrow you.

B (42:38)

Okay, say that one more time.

A (42:39)

You will outgrow your messaging faster than your audience will outgrow you.

B (42:46)

What does that mean?

A (42:47)

And what that means is that as you grow and evolve as a business leader and we can think about it in terms of the buyer, you're going to outgrow the message that you have been sharing that usually goes to that former self buyer or that working self buyer faster than the audience will actually catch up to that and outgrow you. So a lot of times we've evolved to this certain level, but then we're sitting around getting frustrated and resentful that the audience hasn't caught up. And it's like, well, we have to remember we're going to evolve our messaging, our business, our offers faster than the audience will catch up and evolve or outgrow that as well. And so if your ideal client never evolves, then you are going to stay trapped in a business that no longer reflects who you are now and where it is that you're going. So as you evolve, your content, your offers, your language, your messaging, your brand, your visuals, all of that, everything has to rise to meet that new level. And so it's not that you outgrow your audience, you just outgrow your old identity. And so what I mean by that is that the moment that you align the external message with, with whatever's happening inside the business, inside you, whatever that is, you're going to start being able to sell more with ease. Now, the way that I do that and the way that Amy does that, and how I was explaining with Amy is that you could have this same avatar, but you have to remember that she may be in different phases of her career. So, for example, you don't create low ticket offers for people that buy low ticket things and mid ticket offers for people that buy mid ticket things and high ticket offers for people that buy high ticket things. You create offers for the same avatar. She's just at a different stage and level of her business. This is what allows you that even though you're outgrowing or evolving your messaging, it's going to allow your audience to, to stay with you and evolve with you. So I believe that you could have an offer for Hank version one. Now, where is Hank one? What's going on? What's her problems, what's her challenges and what transformation is happening there? In order to turn Hank 1 into a Hank 2 or to get Hank 1 to Hank 2 and then in order to get Hank 2 to Hank 3 and so on and so forth, every person's business is going to be different and ICA obviously is going to be different based on your offers. But I really like to think of it like a dimension diamond. If you ever look at a diamond, there's going to be so many different facets to the diamond. And it's not that someone has to relate or buy into or buy every facet of your business or offer. They just have to relate to one facet of it to see that, oh, this is the right thing for me at this stage. Let me dive into it. So that's how I explain it. But you may also want to share how you were able to take it from the other end and use it in your business as well.

B (45:42)

Yes. So when you first share this concept, I think at the Milli Club. Yeah, the first Milli club I did. You explained this. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait. I used to have about four different avatars in my business, and she had different names and different Personas and different areas of where her growth was in her business. And I could never remember who they were and I could never remember their story. So when you said you can have one avatar and that avatar can evolve in inside your business, I'm like, wait a second. For those of you don't know, Hank's just a funny name my team calls me. So we ended up calling her Hank. But Hank1 is someone who's just a beginner, hasn't left her 9 to 5 job, isn't making money online. But she's so curious about all of this, all the way to Hank 2, 3, 4. Hank 4. She's making a million dollars a year or more in her business. So hang 2 and 3 are somewhere in the middle. But I can speak to each of these in a different way with, without polarizing another, because they all have something in common. They all want to grow their business and they all struggle in different ways with imposter syndrome or not feeling enough or just not sure if they have the answers or whatever. But they're in different phases and so they can instantly say, she's talking about me. And I usually. So just to be clear, I might have four Hanks, but I usually focus on Hank too. She's making about 200k in her business. She's already started. She's got an email list, she has an offer. Everything's messy and chaotic as it usually is in the first years of business. So a lot of my messaging goes to one of those Hanks, but there's also like surrounding messaging that will also hit the different ones as well. It has been a game changer for us because you should see Julie, my team, everyone knows Hank. They know every facet of Hank. They know every journey she's been on. We can talk about her like she's our best friend. I've never seen that in my team before. So that's been a really cool thing. Now, those of you listening, many of my students do not teach people how to build businesses and make money. That's what I do. Julie does a similar kind of in a different way. But a lot of my students are, you know, health related or helping someone with mental health or helping someone buy a house. But there's always different phases of your avatar you can identify and you can ask yourself, do I want to serve these different phases or not? And if the answer is yes. What Julie's teaching here and what she teaches in Growth Collective and beyond is really, really valuable. So, Julie, I know we're running out of time, but I want you to talk about Growth Collective. It's a membership. I love everything about it, and I think my audience will love it. So before we wrap up, can you tell us a little bit about the membership? Who is it for? How do you know you're ready for it? Let's talk about it.

A (48:18)

Yes. And then I want to go back quickly to the buyer journey really quick because I want to just really implore those that are listening, especially if you're someone who has a multitude of different avatars. That is so exhausting. It is so exhausting and overwhelming to try to keep up with that.

B (48:33)

Yes.

A (48:34)

And so if you can just have one avatar, but you know that she is going to be at different facets, if you think about the diamond, different facets and phases of her buying journey, and you get to decide if and where you meet her. I have some clients that even though they have a, you know, Jessica 1, they don't serve Jessica 1. They serve Jessica 2 and 3. But they at least understand who Jessica 1 is, where she's coming from and where she's going. And that also allows me, like, my. My woman's name is Ava. So there's. There's three AVAs. And but what has also happened is that as I've gone to refine my messaging, I always still try to speak as If Ava is Ava 3, even if she's Ava 1, because what I've noticed is that it will call that more aspirational and ready Ava1 Ava to come up into the other offers. And so that's the other thing that if someone's like, okay, Julie, but if I'm serving a Hank one, how do I speak to Hank one if I don't want to speak to these former self buyers? Will you speak to Hank one from that highest self buyer lens? From that highest self buyer messaging? So I just want to be, like, really clear on that.

B (49:46)

So good, Julie. It's aspirational, and I love that. And yes, you don't have to serve all facets of your avatar if that's not what you want to do. But I've never heard you say that before. And it's how we navigate too. But identify who she is. You may not be speaking to her or serving, even serving her, but just know she's there because she might creep up into some other things you're doing. And you just need to be aware of how. How to navigate that.

A (50:11)

Yes. Yeah. And then that leads me to the Growth Collective. Yeah. So the Growth Collective. I'm so excited about this. I decided to launch this last year and I'll explain why once I kind of dive into this. So this is the place where women come. And I work with a multitude of different types of female entrepreneurs, like Amy. I've got a lot of health coaches, I've got a lot of business coaches, I've got a lot of service providers. But it's. It's women in the entrepreneurial space that want to simplify the strategy so they can amplify their results. And this is really for that. Ava, too, that is successful, but she's exhausted and she's doing all the right things, but her content and her messaging, they're just not converting at the level that they should based on the output that she is putting in. So she doesn't need another course. She's already done all of that. But she needs clarity and she needs support. So inside the Growth Collective, we take her from messaging confusion and chaos to content that really sells. And we do it in about an hour a week. I built this membership because I kept seeing a lot of brilliant women over posting and under converting. And even though their content might have looked great and pretty, it wasn't doing great. And the truth is, most entrepreneurs, even though they think they have a content problem, they don't. They have a messaging problem and they're creating content that sounds quote unquote, right, but it's not actually resonating. And so inside the Growth Collective, we fix that. We use all of my frameworks, the same ones that I teach inside my $10,000 plus accelerator programs, but in a very simplified way through coaching, through custom AI tools called the Content Catalyst that's in there. And we use a lot of my proven frameworks. We use my power and pleasure content, the mirror messaging that I talked about today, my Trojan horse content, to really help you write captions, stories, posts, really things that are going to stop the scroll and start conversations without spinning hours, creating content. And there's a four stage success path in it, and each stage builds on the last. So we have stage one that builds trust and authority. Stage two, that turns your stories into sales. Stage three really expands on reach and repurposing. And then stage four, we move you into that true authority positioning. And it's all supported through the frameworks. A live monthly call with me each month so you're not just lost in a portal. But you're really getting that proximity. And our Content Catalyst AI tool is completely custom. We have created it so it literally matches all of these frameworks because I want you to be able to plug and play as much as you can. So that does about 80% of the heavy lifting. And it really just, it's rooted and it creates the psychological things that need to happen in terms of conversion as it relates to messaging. So it's not generic AI fluff, it just means that you can open your laptop, type in a few prompts and in minutes you're going to have the posts and the stories and the emails all in your voice, aligned with your biology based on the frameworks that I typically reserve for my higher level clients. So that's why I wanted to create the membership, just to give people that either they're new to my world or they're not ready for that level of support and investment. They can still get access to these frameworks and really have a momentum machine at their fingertips.

B (53:37)

So good. So good. Okay, so you have a special deal. First of all, if you guys are interested, amyporterfield.com forward slash Julie, as simple as that. Amyporterfield.com Julie But Julie, you have a special offer. What is it?

A (53:51)

It is and it's insane. Okay, so usually the membership is $97 a month. You can month to month, no commitment, or you can buy a six month package and save some money. But just for your listeners today we are going to give them access to join for an entire week for just $1 so they can come in, check it out, check out the AI tool, hopefully get a coaching call in with me. Depending on when they check out, they can watch archive viewings of coaching calls and if they want to stay, great, they can kick off and stay with us. And it's an amazing community. I love getting in there and seeing how the frameworks work. No matter what industry you're in or, or you know what your offers are, this is really about meeting you where you are. And again, this is all about messaging. And so anything that I can do to help you refine the messaging so you can really start to see the sales that you want. That is what this membership is intended to do. So $1 come hang out with us for a week, see if you love it and then I hope you stay.

B (54:47)

I love it and you're all going to love it. I know so many of my listeners. The reason I wanted you to come on Julie and why I wanted you to make this offer is that messaging is the missing piece for so many of my students and listeners here. And you unlock this one piece and it all gets easier. And so that's why I'm just such a fan of you. You're such a dear friend. You're one of my very first Tennessee friends. When I moved here, we were already friends, but you took me into your community and I'm ever forever grateful. But also just watching you shine in what you do and learning so much from you has been such a gift. So my sweet friend Julie, thank you so much for being here. All my listeners. Amyporterfield.com forward/julie, go check out the Growth Collective membership one buck and you can use her AI tools to see how they work for you. I mean, don't even miss out. Just that alone is worth so much more money. So again, Julie, thank you so much for being here.

A (55:39)

Thank you for having me.