← The Amy Porterfield Show
The Amy Porterfield Show
What's Working Now: Memberships That Scale Without Burnout with Stu McLaren
01:02:40
How to Build a Membership That Fuels Freedom, Stability, and Long-Term Growth
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- [00:02]
A
Hey, there.
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B
Welcome to the Amy Porterfield Show.
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A
So for everybody that's in the beginning stages, if you're like, I need to wait until this. I need to wait until that. Hear me when I say this. Stop waiting. Get out of your own way. Like, the best thing that you can do is to validate your idea as quickly as possible. The way you do that is, is you just float it out there to your audience.
- [00:35]
B
I remember, like, it was yesterday, the very first time somebody enrolled in my membership. Like, the very first person. So we're talking memberships today, and I want to take you back many, many years ago when I launched my membership momentum and I launched it at a live event. It had to have been 2019, because that was the last time I did a really big live event in San Diego. And we invited people to a special VIP lunch, people that qualified for my membership. And actually, Stu, my guest today, was on stage with me at this special. I think it was a breakfast, a special breakfast. And we got to talk about why I created it. And then we officially opened the doors. And I remember my very first member was Ann La Follette. Like, that was the very first person. I remember her walking over to the table, signing up. She was the very first person. We gave away these really cool blue journals at the time as a little. Just extra perk. And it felt so good, like, my membership had officially started. And if you're listening to this right now and you do not have a membership, whether you're a complete newbie or you're more advanced, you have a business, things are moving forward. You might even have a course or a different type of business model. But you've always been curious about a membership. There is something for everyone in this episode, and I specifically designed it for. For all different levels of business builders. So I promise you, there's something here for you today. And I've had Stu McLaren, that's my guest today. He has been on the show so many times on my old podcast, Online Marketing Made Easy, not on the new one. But we have talked about memberships over and over and over again. So one of the challenges is how do I talk about memberships in a different way, in a new way, so that my audience, who's been following us forever, they get a different take on things. And. And I think we nailed it because we're talking about the changing industry, what we're seeing change and how things have to change along with our marketing. And for the first time, we're talking about different strategies for marketing a membership that I have never tried. And one of them I'm absolutely doing this year. So I love this conversation. I kind of made it as much for me as for you because I have a membership, so I think you're going to find it valuable. Now, 99% of you know my friend Stuart, Stu McLaren, like you know him, you know he's a very good friend of mine, but some of you don't. And I want to give him like a proper intro. So bear with me here. If you already know Stu, but I think he has a pretty impressive bio anyway. So he is the pioneer, and I mean that word in all sincerity, the pioneer in the membership site industry. And he's the founder of the Membership Experience. It's a program that's helped over 19,000 people actually build recurring revenue in their business.
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A
So.
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B
So he teaches them how to create the membership and more importantly, how to launch it. He's the co founder of Membership IO. You all know that I love Membership IO. It's the platform I use for my courses and for my membership. So I love this tool. And he is the co founder and he's also the new author of the book Predictable Profits, which basically challenges traditional content heavy business models.
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A
And.
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B
And it prioritizes transformation, community and results, which are three things we are going to talk about today. And he really has taught people in all different niches around memberships, like people that want to create memberships in, let's say calligraphy or photography or dog training or leadership or so many different industries. If you think of an industry, he's helped them create a membership. That's how incredible his program has been. Or I think I love most about Stu is his approach. It's deeply rooted in creating connection and outcomes, not overwhelm. And he does a really good job of that. And like I said, he's been instrumental in helping me build my own membership. So I wanted to make this conversation more interesting, better than we've ever had. And I think we nailed it because I'm recording this intro after I got to talk to Stu. So my friend here, you're in for a treat. So here's something I typically don't do when I invite a guest on and let's say they have a free masterclass coming up, I usually introduce my guests, let them add massive value first. And once you're like, this is so good, I have them tell you about their free masterclass. I like that flow. I like to give before I tell you to go do something. But you know Stu and you know that Every year. Maybe you don't know this, but now you do. Every year he does a really incredible value packed promotion when he's going to open the doors to his program, the membership experience and it's that time of year. So we're getting into an incredible conversation whether you engage with Stu in his masterclass or not. But I'm just going to tell you about it right now. So he's got this free masterclass coming up. It's called the Membership Masterclass. Three secrets to turn what you already know, love and do into recurring revenue. Love the title. And so he is going to teach you exactly how to get started with the membership on the masterclass. Like you can take action right away and actually make a sell. Like now I know that sounds over the top. He'll talk about it later. So you'll absolutely see like, oh, this actually is doable. So amyporterfield.com forward/stu, that's where you want to go if you want to sign up for his free masterclass. But if you're like, I'm not sure, listen to this interview, it's so good. And then I think you're going to want to sign up, which I'll mention it at the end as well. So I won't make you wait any longer. Let's bring on my dear friend Stu. You know, you've been on the show too many times and so I was telling you before we went on Stu, we've talked about it all. Like what are we going to talk about that's new? I mean, you haven't actually. Stu, you haven't been on the Amy Porterfield show.
- [06:15]
A
That's true. That I am a rookie. I am an Amy Porterfield show rookie.
- [06:20]
B
Welcome to the magic. Because that's what's happening over here and it's a good time. So you are new to the show, but this topic you and I have been talking about for years together, which is really fun. So we're talking about memberships but at this time that we're recording, actually we do have to talk about what's changing. So we're just going to start right from the get go with courses and memberships. What are you seeing? Because Jenna and I just did a whole episode about this and Stu, I'm gonna have to take off these earrings. You. Even though they're very cute, they're hitting my headphones and my team is not going to like that. So we're just going to keep going. So what have you been seeing? Because Jenna and I did a whole episode about this. It was really well received. Other people are like, yes, totally agree with you, tell us more. Keep it coming. So they're hungry for this conversation. So talk to me.
- [07:11]
A
Yeah, well, I think, you know, in the past we've always put the emphasis in our courses and in our memberships on the information that we're providing. So it's always about like, hey, you are here, you want to get to here. And I've got the step by step process to help you do that in my courses, in my lessons and modules, in my membership, et cetera. But today more than ever, you and I both know information is not anywhere near as valuable as it once was. And AI today has like just dropped the ceiling, so to speak, in, in terms of the value. Now anybody can just go to ChatGPT and they can say, hey, give me a step by step process for xyz and it's going to spit it all out. So what does that mean for you and I as course creators and membership site owners? Does that mean that the world is coming to an end and our businesses are going to disappear overnight? No, because here's the harsh reality that everybody needs to realize. Yes, people are coming in at one point and they're wanting to get to another point in their life and they'll learn what to do and how to do it, either in your course, in your membership, or online, in through AI, YouTube, whatever. But there's a huge gap, huge gap between knowing what to do and how to do it and actually getting the result.
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B
Amen. Say it one more time. I think this is so important. There's a huge gap, say one more time.
- [08:39]
A
There's a huge gap between knowing what to do and how to do it and actually getting the result. Let me give you a real world example. Let's say that I want to become an elite swimmer. So I go on YouTube and I start watching YouTube videos about how to be a great swimmer. Does that now mean that I'm a great swimmer? No, not until I get in the pool and I actually start trying to put the things into practice. And even then I need somebody to say, hey, Stu, I. Your butt is up a little too high. You need to push that down. Hey, Stu, you need to reach further in your stroke. Hey, Stu, keep your head down. Like that is where the magic really happens. And so when you start to internalize that, as course creators and membership site owners, you realize that the reason people join our courses and our memberships is not so much for the information, but it's how we Support them in the implementation. And that's the magic difference.
- [09:31]
B
Okay, so if AI is on the scene now and people are thinking information is actually less valuable, at least it feels less valuable, and you're talking about getting people transformations, getting them the results, then where do you come in? Where do I come in? Where do all of our course creators come in? Where do all of our membership owners come in at a time of AI?
- [09:59]
A
I think our job and our role as course creators and as membership site owners is to think through the experience as much as we think through the information. So when I talk about thinking through the experience, I'm talking about, like, identifying where are people getting stuck? And then using your own creativity and innovation to ask, okay, what could we create to support people in getting through that so that they can implement easier, faster and get results quicker? I'll give you an example of what we're doing in our course this year. So we were looking at all of the numbers and we were looking at how much are people consuming and where are they dropping off, and we started to notice trends. And you probably know this too, Amy, being in the, you know, the queen of all courses, but the enthusiasm is highest in the beginning. So you're going to see the most consumption in module one, lesson one, as an example, versus module seven, lesson eight. Right. So we then need to think about is how do we carry the enthusiasm from module one, lesson one, all the way through the course material and get people through? And one of the top objections that we saw was just people said, I just don't have time. I love this. I'm learning lots. I just don't have time. And when we take a step back and think about people's lives like, they've got kids, they've got careers, they've got things they're doing, and they're trying to squeeze learning time and implementation time in amidst all the other commitments of life. So one of the changes we did this year was we created what we call the core four. So traditionally, each module in our course has had seven to 10 lessons. What we did this year was we identified the four lessons in each module that we're calling the core four that are the 20% that will get 80% of the result.
- [11:54]
B
Whoa, this is good, Stu. Keep going.
- [11:56]
A
Yeah. So now what I can say to people is like, listen, if you want to get this result, in our case, we help people launch thriving membership businesses. If you want to go as quickly as possible from zero to a thriving membership business, but you don't have time, we got you covered because in each module there's four lessons, four less than 30 minutes a week. That will give you the 20% that will get you 80% of the results. So if you just want to blitz through the material, just focus on the Core 4. Now, if you're the kind of person that wants to go deeper, good news is that we have deep dive lessons for you in each module. But if you're strapped for time, just focus on the Core 4. You'll get the essence and the result that you're after timeout. So that is an example of where we're paying as much attention to the experience as we are the information. And what's ultimately going to happen is it's going to pull people through that material so much easier, faster, and they're going to get better results.
- [12:55]
B
I love that information, content, experience. You've got to look at it all. But I do think where we are different than what AI can give us is that we are creating these experiences. We are bringing ourselves to the table, whether it be through a course or a membership. And if you can figure out how that is unique and different and gets people results, you literally are winning in the game. And it's such a big deal. Now you're here because we're talking memberships and I'm just curious. The world seems a little chaotic right now. There's a lot going on and. And so when you think about recurring revenue, which is literally the result of a thriving membership, when you think of recurring revenue, why do you think it's more critical now than ever? Or is it.
- [13:45]
A
Well, it 100% is because there's so much uncertainty. So, you know, people are concerned about launches not performing as well. They're concerned about ad costs like skyrocketing, and they're concerned that, oh my gosh, like, what am I going to do if a promotion next month doesn't pan out and we've got all these increase in costs. And when you think and layer on for all the advanced people, you think of like the cost of team, like all of that, all of that is going up and there's a lot of pressure on us as business owners. But the thing that removes that pressure and eliminates stress is when you know at the beginning of the month, you are automatically going to have a whole lot of sales coming in, regardless of whether you do a new promotion or not. Now that is like a massive stress reliever. The other thing about that, for the advanced people especially, is that if you ever anticipate selling your business down the Road, the business that has recurring revenue on average is valued eight times higher than. Than the business that does not. They can sell the exact same thing. But if one business has recurring revenue and the other does not, it is on average valued eight times higher. So in all facets, adding recurring revenue into your business is a must have because, number one, it relieves stress for you as the business owner. It creates certainty and predictability. It creates confidence that you can invest in your marketing and in your team because you know the money's going to be there. And if you ever anticipate selling the business, on average, it's going to be valued eight times higher. So those are all reasons for us to be thinking about adding recurring revenue. And don't even get me started on the uncertainty of the creator economy with things like, oh, TikTok's going to be shut down tomorrow. What? Like, there were millions of creators. Like, what do I do? Like, the drama.
- [15:40]
B
The drama. I watched it all, Stu. I watched it all till my phone didn't work on TikTok anymore that night, like, there was a lot of drama.
- [15:48]
A
And it's scary because, like, there are legit, like, creators who've built these incredible businesses on that platform and then to have, like, the threat of it disappear overnight and then it's back on and. And that's just like, crazy for the emotions. And so I just want to employ. Is that the word employ? I don't even.
- [16:10]
B
I like them both. I like them both.
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A
I just want to employ and implore everybody, like, get as much recurring revenue in your business as possible. We're looking to try to add as many streams of recurring revenue. Right now we are at 1, 2, 3, 4 recurring revenue streams in our business. The more we can add, the better.
- [16:30]
B
I 100% agree with you. Now when we're talking memberships, like, you and I have literally talked about memberships for years and years. You just sent me a video where? Many years ago, when I lived in Carlsbad in Southern California, we did an ad where I pushed you in the pool. We should probably use that again because it worked really, really well. But just know when you promote Digital Course Academy, I'm never doing that. You're never throwing me in the pool.
- [16:55]
A
My creative ideas get squashed real fast when it comes to your promotion, they do.
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B
But for yours, they're super fun. And so we've been just talking about memberships forever, and I'm curious over the last year and I actually don't know the answer to this, so you might be like, Amy, take this one out because the answer is there's no change. But have you seen changes in memberships? How you create them, how you promote them, how people manage them, how you grow them? Have you seen changes over the last year or two?
- [17:22]
A
I definitely have, certainly with promotion. Like here's an example. I had a conversation last night with Scott. He's in our community and you know, he's grown his membership site to more than 6,000 plus members in the nonprofit space. It's called Nonprofit Leadership Lab. And anyways, what we were talking about was just the different phases of growth in a membership. So in the beginning, the fastest way to grow a membership is through launches. You know, in a single launch you can add thousands of members. Like Ali Kay, who's here with us this week. She has a painting membership and she was trying to do it the using the open marketing model, which has meant anybody could come to her website at any time and, and sign up. And you know, to her credit, she had grown that membership to 1400 members over a two year period which, hey, that's a lot of members. Like it is, that's a six figure a year membership. But then she came into our world and one of the things that I teach is like the fastest way to grow a membership is by closing the doors. And that I know that seems ludicrous, which is like, wait a minute, you're telling me to not let people buy and yeah, that's exactly what I'm telling you to do. Don't let people buy. And except for a few times a year. And what that does is it creates this pent up demand and it creates a scenario where people then say yes to themselves because they know it's not going to be always available. And so when you're growing in the beginning, the closed marketing model is most effective, meaning you close the doors you only open a few times a year. And in Ali's case, the very first time that she did it, she welcomed more than 3,000 members in a single promotion.
- [19:05]
B
That's a lot of members members.
- [19:08]
A
She went from a six figure to a seven figure business like that with one single promotion. So it took her two years to welcome 1400 members using the open model. With the closed model, she welcomed 3,000 in a single promotion. Now that works to a point. Once you get to several thousand members, you need to shift gears again. And so this is like another shift and another evolution in terms of the marketing. Now it becomes a combination of not just a closed marketing model, but an open marketing model as well. But the way in which you do it is really important. When people come to your website again, you don't want them being able to just, like, click and join. Because most people, what they do is they'll come to the site and they'll be like, oh, this looks good. I'll save this for later. And then they never.
- [20:00]
B
Words no marketer ever wants to hear. I'll save this for later.
- [20:04]
A
Never want to hear that. So we got to give people a reason to buy. So I take a page out of, like, one of our students, Levi. They've grown their guitar membership to more than 12,000 members. When you go to their site, you can't just sign up. You can sign up for a training, a free webinar training. And at the end of the free webinar training, that's when they offer their membership. And the people that come through the training, they have a window upon which they can get a special deal after viewing the webinar. So it creates a natural sense of urgency. It's rewarded to the people who view the webinar. But if you don't view the webinar, you don't see the deal and you can't join the membership. And so now this creates a combination of both a closed and an open model that allows the membership to grow in perpetuity. And so, yes, things have changed and shifted, both with the marketing, both with how we deliver content, and so much more. But we just got to stay on top of it in order to help our people get the best result and to grow our business.
- [21:05]
B
So there's a lot of different ways to market courses and market memberships. And know I talk about doing boot camps. I think you could do a boot camp into the launch of your membership. Absolutely. You can do webinars, master classes, all of that, but you have a student. And I don't want to give all her strategies away. I just want to kind of wet people's whistle. When was the last time you said wet your whistle?
- [21:29]
A
I employ. I mean, implore you to keep saying that.
- [21:32]
B
I want to take that out so bad, and I'm not going to. But Sarah, Sarah, Sarah wets their whistle with what she. I think it's Sarah. She calls it coach week or coaching week. Do I have that right?
- [21:45]
A
Yeah.
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B
Okay. Do you think she'd allow us to, like, give a little hint of that today? I thought that was a really cool strategy.
- [21:50]
A
For sure. There's a whole number of students in our community that are doing some really innovative things. We'll talk about Sarah and we can also talk about Tara, Sarah and Tara. So Sarah does a coaching week. Now, I gotta give her full credit. She 100% innovated on this herself. And it came from a conversation that we had. She said, stu, I just want to get more people into my membership. And we were at a mastermind. And I said to her, I said, well, what do you think is the highest converting piece? She said, if I just interact with people, like, they will join the membership because through the interaction, they see the value and then they join. I said, so how can you give them more of you in a promotion? And that was the seed that then sparked her idea for coaching week. And her coaching week is essentially for one week. It's five days. She shows up full tilt. So she is available. And she does these different coaching. She's walking people through different elements. In her case, she's teaching people how to launch a subscription box business. And so one day she's talking and walking people through exercises of brainstorming different subscription box ideas, the next she's talking about where to source items. So she's teaching this whole week, but she's also talking about the membership every single day. So unlike a traditional launch where you wait to the end to talk about it, she's talking about it from day one. From day one, she's talking about it. And she hosts these special intimate Q and A sessions for anybody that signs up during that particular day. So she'll host those in the evenings, and she'll welcome hundreds and hundreds of new members all throughout the week. Because not only are they getting value from the experience they're having with her during coaching week, but they're also seeing how she coaches and how she helps people and the way in which she provides resources, all of which are demonstrations of the value that they get by joining the membership. And so she helps them experience progress. They then now have momentum on their side. They see and experience the incredible coaching that she provides, and they experience her resources and they just want more. And that's why she welcomes hundreds and hundreds of members in a single promotion.
- [23:59]
B
Okay, so I have some questions about that. Then we're going to talk about Tara, because Tara's strategy is a little different than that.
- [24:05]
A
Yes, totally.
- [24:06]
B
Okay, good. Okay. So for Sarah, when. So Bonnie, Christine was just at my house. We had a girls sleepover. I don't know why I had to say it was a girls. Well, Hobie wasn't here. He went to the lake. So it was a girl sleepover. And I wish so bad I Could tell the story of what happened via text with you, but I think it might be a little inappropriate. But I just want you all to know Stu doesn't know anything about women's feminine products. That's all I have to say.
- [24:29]
A
Oh, God.
- [24:30]
B
I think we have to tell it. I think we have to tell it. So cringe. No, I have to tell it. So Stu sent a text message, and he said, I saw that all the girls are over at your house. And just for the record, we spoke at an event. So a bunch of my girlfriends happened to be in Nashville, and we got together for a day because we all were here.
- [24:47]
A
St didn't get an invite, dude.
- [24:49]
B
He wasn't at the event, so he didn't get to come to my house. So he's like, thanks, girls. You left me out. And I said, well, you probably wouldn't want to be here anyway. For some reason that day, we were talking about tampons a lot. I don't know, it just was a topic that kept coming up, as happens when you get a bunch of women together. And Stu wrote back, ladies, you need to pay attention right now. Stu wrote back, oh, well, I say this. Stu, stop. Ste wrote back and said, I like the kind with the flower lapse. This is what Stu said after I said, we're talking about tampons. So I said, stu, you need to go show that text message to your wife right now. Just go show her it. And he immediately wrote back. She immediately told me I was wrong about that. Obviously, Stu doesn't really understand because he's a man, but I would. We laughed so hard, Stu. Like, really hard. Like you.
- [25:37]
A
I, I, I am not good at tampon talk, but I will definitely bring the giggles. That's for sure.
- [25:42]
B
You will. You made us laugh like, an hour later. And then I, like, had to tell someone else about the story. Now I'm telling everyone. So I just fully.
- [25:49]
A
I appreciate you telling the world about my inability to understand feminine products. I apologize to all women worldwide.
- [25:58]
B
I wanted to copy and paste it and post it on stories, but I didn't. It was just too funny to me. I just. I couldn't handle it. Okay, so wait. Getting back. Getting back.
- [26:09]
A
So.
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B
So, Bonnie, Christine was here, and she had mentioned about this really cool coaching week, and she said that Sarah. At least I thought she said this. Bonnie, if you're hearing this and I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I thought she said that Sarah takes, like, a month of the deliverables she has in her membership. Let's say she has every week you get something new in her membership. She takes those deliverables and she teaches them over five days so you get the full experience of what a month in the membership could look like. Am I wrong?
- [26:38]
A
No, you're spot on. That's exactly it.
- [26:39]
B
I love that.
- [26:40]
A
So each day is a demonstration of the kinds of things that are delivered inside the membership. And so it is a great way for people to experience the value of that membership in a condensed timeframe. But what it does is it just foreshadows the value they get by joining, and it just creates an amazing experience. They get more of Sarah. They see the value of her and her coaching. They see the value of the. The kinds of resources and lessons that will be provided in the membership. And it just makes a smooth and easy way for her to talk about the membership all week long. Because it's like, hey, if you liked this, we got a whole lot more of this inside the membership. It is one of the core deliverables. And so, yeah, it's a great way to demonstrate and for people to experience the value of the membership.
- [27:26]
B
I mean, that's the word. You said it earlier. You said it again. She created an experience. This is what it feels like to be in my membership.
- [27:34]
A
To.
- [27:35]
B
These are the actual, real things that you get every single month. I thought it was brilliant. I know it's high energy. I know it's like she's fully in for that week, but it's just a week. So I thought that was a really cool way to launch or promote a membership. So tell me now about Tara. Cause I don't know anything about Tara.
- [27:51]
A
Well, first off, I want to apologize again to all women for my inability to understand tampon talk.
- [27:58]
B
But you hang with the ladies really well. Even though you don't understand that. You're pretty good with the ladies.
- [28:03]
A
Yeah. Okay, so, okay. Now moving on to Tara. She's incredible as well. She's an educator, was in the classroom for 25 years, specifically working with kids with autism. So over that time, she developed resources to make the experience with the kids much easier, help them learn faster, all that kind of stuff. Then she had this aha moment, which is like, oh, this is valuable. Like, other educators could benefit from all these resources that I created. Long story short, she launches a membership. So last year, her biggest launch to date had been a $30,000 launch, and she decided to host a summit. So she went out and she invited some other speakers to come to be part of this summit. They each gave a 45 minute presentation. These were all pre recorded so she didn't do it live. So she pre recorded all of the presentations and then she ran ads to the summit. Now we have this little funny saying in our community because we have a spreadsheet that tracks the performance of ads. And my simple stu brain is like if this column is bigger than that column, spend more money. Meaning like if this column where your, your revenue is bigger than your expenses, spend, spend more money to get more people in. So as I said, Tara up to that point had never had a launch bigger than $31,000. She was texting me via Instagram dms and keeping me updated and like day like right out of the gate she was already like right close to her biggest launch in terms of revenue. So she charges she has a VIP upsell for. I forget how much it was, but she has a VIP upsell. I think it was like 15 or 20, something like that. And anyways time goes on and she has now surpassed her biggest launch. Then it goes to 70,000, then it's like over a hundred thousand, then it's over 200,000, then it's over $300,000. This is just from summit revenue. Just from. So she more than 10x for now. Here's the crazy part. She ended up welcoming over 33,000 registrants to her summit. 33,000 register. Then she gets very creative and innovative because she said, you know what, I would love to like give away some toys and things like that like that they use in the classroom. I said, well why don't you reach out to the companies? She reaches out to the companies. She said, hey, we've got this sum. We've got 33,000 plus people. They're like give, they give her like thousands, tens of thousands of dollars of toys to be able to give away. So she's just, it was momentum, momentum, momentum. Then she offers her membership at the end of the summit. Here's the crazy thing, Amy. She ended up welcoming 1600 new members into her membership last year. She crossed the seven figure mark in her business and it was largely due to this one promotion that she ran, which was a summit. So she's doing it again this year. She's biggie sizing it again. She's got like more speakers coming in, she's got more sponsors who want to be a part of it. It's, it's just like now she's got this tremendous momentum and anybody can do this, you know, because she interviewed these experts, they saved the recordings ahead of time. They put it into A page. The page was only available. Those recordings were only available for 24 hours for each day of the summit. And then if people wanted the recordings, they paid for vip. And then she offered her membership at the end. And it was a huge home run, success.
- [31:41]
B
I have a few questions. I always like to think, okay, am I the one who's not fully understanding? But then I think if I have questions, my listeners have questions. The first one is when you say summit and I. You might have said this and I missed it. Does that mean that she brought, like, a lot of people on to speak during those days? She wasn't the only one. Is that. That's how I see, like an online summit, Is that right?
- [32:03]
A
Correct. So she definitely gave her own presentation each day, which is important because you want to establish your authority and you also want to build your connection with your audience. But she also had other speakers came as well that spoke on different topics. And so in a given day, there would be, I think, five or six presentations that were available for 24 hours, and then those presentations would be taken down and the next day's presentations would be made available.
- [32:31]
B
Okay, gotcha. And then this might be a little too detailed and you might not know, but do you know if those speakers were allowed to promote and get, like, an affiliate link? And so if she sold anything in the summit, they got a cut of it?
- [32:44]
A
They. Yes, they did. That wasn't a big driver for her market. Not many of them really went out of their way to promote. The lion's share of the registrations came from her audience, but also mainly from the ads that she was running.
- [32:58]
B
Got it. Okay. And then, to be really clear, she pitched her membership. Do you know if she did it every day or just the last day?
- [33:07]
A
She talked about it, so she talked about it throughout. But the big push came toward the end, so she didn't shy away from talking about it. She certainly hinted and brought it up. But the big push for it came certainly at the end. And what I would just say that I. I just want to make sure that everybody captures this. Most people traditionally think of list building as this thing that we're just. We're doing on an ongoing basis, and we have leads that trickle in, trickle in, trickle in. Here's what I want to do. I want to challenge people to think about their list building a little bit differently. What if throughout the year you had a few events where you could spend money and liquidate the ad spend to build your list in a big way in a very short period of time? Just like Tara did. So, yes, she welcomed 1600 members into her membership, which is phenomenal. And, yes, she generated over $300,000 from summit registrations and VIP sales, but she also added 33,000 people to her email list. So let's not lose sight of the fact that not only did she generate revenue upfront, not only did she generate tens of thousands of dollars in recurring revenue from one single promotion, but she also added 33,000 people to her email list, which is a huge deal. So my encouragement to everybody is to start thinking about events that you can do throughout the year, that even if you didn't make any money, you just broke even. They just dramatically increase your list size.
- [34:47]
B
I absolutely love that. Like, I would do that. I'm considering something this summer where we're going to charge to get in it. We're actually not even selling anything inside of it. I do believe when people pay, they pay attention, but we just want to cut our ad spend. So let's say if we spend. If we make $100,000, people getting into my Summit or whatever it is, I'm willing to spend $100,000 to get them in there, because now I can nurture those leads and add value. So I love that you brought that up.
- [35:14]
A
Yeah. And, I mean, we. We obsess about it in our business, too. It's just like, how can we pay for the ads as quickly as possible? And the sooner that you can pay for the ads, the more confidence you have to be able to spend on ads. You know, the worst thing is, like, when you're spending money on ads, and then you. You have a promotion coming up, but there's like, this gap in between the spend and the revenue, and it's just like, fingers crossed. Hope we make it. Like, let's try to make it right up front. And then that relieves the tension. It also gives you confidence to be able to spend more. So the reason that in this case, Tara was willing to spend a lot more than she's ever spent before was because she had the confidence of knowing this column is bigger than that column. So keep going.
- [35:54]
B
Yes, I love that. Absolutely. Okay. I want to switch gears just a little bit. Some people are listening right now. Stu, let's talk to the people who do not have a membership, but they're thinking about one. Okay. And I have people that are just starting out, but I also have a big group of people that already have a business already making money, but they don't yet have a membership in their business. And I want to address Both of them right now. But before we do that, I want to address anyone who is doing one on one work. Either coaching, consulting, service based work. It's one on one. And we all know that they're always going to hit a ceiling. There's only so many hours in a day and so many clients they could take. So they're starting to think membership. But it's a really big jump for some people to go from one on one. I get this, I know this. I know how to get you results to one to many for a course or a membership. But let's talk membership. What would you say to them? How do they do that?
- [36:46]
A
Well, okay, let me throw it back to you for a second. Why do you think that it's a.
- [36:50]
B
This is my show, Stu. This is my show. I don't answer questions. Okay. Just joking. What did you say?
- [36:57]
A
I was going to say I need to be able to have the ability to say, no, I will not answer your question about tampons.
- [37:03]
B
It's not happening. It's not happening.
- [37:06]
A
Okay, okay.
- [37:07]
B
Throw it back to me. What do you got?
- [37:08]
A
Why do you think it's a big jump for people?
- [37:11]
B
Because I know for a fact when I talk courses to one on one service providers or consultants, they think that I have to pitch and catch. They tell me something, I give them specialized personalized feedback for their unique situation and that's how I'm able to get them results. So. So, you know, we're talking two different things. A coach consultant working one on one is different than a service based business doing the work for them. So right now let's just talk about the one on one coach consultant kind of thing. That's why they get stuck in their tracks.
- [37:41]
A
Fair enough. Okay. This is the world that I actually came from. This is like why I started a membership site, you know, way back in 2008. And the reason was because Amy and I had just gotten married the year before and we were talking about having kids.
- [37:58]
B
Okay, everyone, if you're new here, it's not me. His wife's name is Amy. We have to remember, I have some new listeners. Stu. His wife's name is Amy. So I'm Amy too.
- [38:08]
A
Yes, right, Amy one and I had just gotten married and we're talking about having kids. And every time that we would have this conversation, I would feel like this pit in my stomach. And you know, Amy too, that I love kids.
- [38:28]
B
Like you were meant to have a hundred for the.
- [38:30]
A
I just wanted to be a dad. Like there was nothing more that I wanted Like I wanted to be a dad, I wanted to be an all in dad. But that was the problem. I knew that if I wanted to be a present father, I could not do it with the business model that I had because I was working late, I was up early, I had a client roster. I was very proud of the client roster. We were doing incredible work, but I was working a lot. And so the only way to grow that business was to give more time. And I didn't have any more time to give. And now we're talking about starting a family, like that's who I want to spend time with. So that's when I had the aha moment that like I had a great business, but I had a terrible business model. And that was when I started the journey of exploring a membership. And a mentor of mine said to me, stu, look, you are helping clients with a particular, you know, set of skills. The same thing that you're doing for the clients. You could now teach a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand plus people where you teach the lesson once and they all benefit at the same time. And it was like one of those, like, duh, why have I not thought of this before? And a lot of it sometimes is ego aim. Like I'll just be straight up. It's like, no, my clients need me to be hands on. They need my specific. Here's the reality. No, they don't. They just need the next steps and they need the guidance. Sure, there's always going to be some people that are wanting to pay a premium for you just to do it for them. There's always going to be that group of people. But the vast majority of people, they just want guidance on the next steps from a trusted source. You are that trusted source and it is now time for you to expand your impact and your reach. And that's exactly what a course and a membership does. And so I would just start paying attention to your own process because sometimes that process is a unconscious competence. You don't even realize what you're doing, but you're just doing it naturally. And so you've got to break that process down so that you can then share it with others. And so I think sometimes it's ego aim. I think sometimes it's an unconscious competence. They maybe have not thought through how to what they're doing and how they're doing it to be able to teach it to others. But it's the greatest opportunity for people like us who really want to help and serve and be able to reach more and impact more people.
- [40:56]
B
Absolutely. Totally agree. Okay, so let's talk to the beginner and then let's talk to my more intermediate advanced marketer who doesn't have a membership. Someone who's just starting out. Stu, they don't have an offer yet. They don't have a big idea. They don't have an email list. Could they even consider starting with a membership? Or is that like, no way. This is too big for them?
- [41:20]
A
No, not at all. Like, we. I used to think that. I'll be straight up. I used to think that. But it's our community that has proven me wrong.
- [41:27]
B
Like, I agree, your community is insane. You'd give free stuff away in your boot camp style series. And people are already getting results before they paid you a penny.
- [41:37]
A
They're launching like in the midst of a free workshop. Yeah. And they're launching without audience of tens of thousands or thousands. They're aud. They're launching with like, audience of just a couple hundred people. So for everybody, that's in the beginning stages, if you're like, oh, I need to wait. I need to wait until this, I need to wait until that. Hear me when I say this, stop waiting. Get out of your own way. Like, the best thing that you can do is to validate your idea as quickly as possible. The way you do that is you just float it out there to your audience. And that audience might be on Facebook, you might have a few hundred followers on Instagram, or maybe you've got a few hundred followers on YouTube or a podcast, whatever it might be. Wherever you communicate with your audience, you don't need tens of thousands or thousands, you just need a couple hundred. Then it's about floating the idea out. And it's. You're saying, hey, listen, I was listening to the great Amy Porterfield and this crazy Canadian who was talking about tampons on a podcast.
- [42:39]
B
And then for the record, I think Stu has said the word tampons more than I have more in my life.
- [42:45]
A
Okay, but. But they were also, they were talking about community. And it got me thinking about you. And it got me thinking about, like, what it might be like to create a tight knit community for people like us who are on this journey of xyz. And so you're talking about what the idea is and where it came from, and then you cast the vision for it, but you're doing this in a message and you're floating the idea out and then you're inviting people to come and join as founding members and the benefit they'll get is the lowest Price possible. They'll also get that lowest price for as long as they remain a member. So when you raise the price and launch it to the general public, their price is going to stay low. And they also get the benefit of being in on the ground floor, which a lot of people love, by the way. And you're doing this before you create anything. Now, I know there's perfectionists watching, listening, who are going to be like this, he's been sucking back a lot of maple syrup. Because there is no way that I would ever launch anything and ask people to pay me before I've created anything. But here's the thing that I want to challenge you on. When you ask people to join, that is the moment when you know if you are in alignment with what the market wants. We never know until it's time for people to actually, actually pay. And if you're in alignment, they will pay. If you're out of alignment, they will not. And worst case scenario, nobody signs up. That could be a reality. Nobody signs up. But here's the other side of that coin. Nobody signs up. However, you didn't spend a whole lot of time, energy, effort and money in creating something that the market doesn't want. But you, you have made massive progress because you've learned in that moment what you were going to offer is not what the market wants. And isn't it better to learn that before you go spend all that time, energy and money and wait and wait and wait. But the best case scenario, which happens way more than people realize, is that you do welcome paying members and now you're being paid before you've gone and created anything. And how amazing is that? And you validated the idea so that you know you are on the right track and that you can and should invest more time, energy and effort in this area. Because people are raising their hand saying, yes, I want in on that. So for me and for everybody that I coach and support, I want them to go from idea to validation as quickly as possible.
- [45:23]
B
Yes. And that's how you do it. I mean, you teach this, this is how you get, you know, start out with people, which is really cool. Meaning, like, this is how you kick things off in a really big way. Okay, so let's talk to the person listening that they have an established business, let's say they're making at least 100k a year, if not a whole lot more, and they might even have a course, but maybe not. So what do you say to them? Why should they add a membership to their existing business? And then if they have a course, we just have to touch on front end, back end. It's all always a topic that comes up when I talk about memberships and courses. So talk to me about the more established marketer.
- [46:02]
A
Well, for the more established person, I'm kind of lost for words sometimes, Amy, because I'm baffled that more people who have established businesses and established audiences are not running membership.
- [46:13]
B
I agree. Like, it's such a no brainer in my head.
- [46:16]
A
It is such a no brainer. And the momentum that they will gain will be so fast and so quick. Like I. Yeah, for somebody who's already got an established audience, established business, it is crazy that you are not thinking about. And here's the thing, like, let's just do some simple math, Amy. Let's say that somebody launches their membership and they welcome 20 founding members at $50 a month. That's that right out of the gate. Just 20 members at $50 a month, that's $1,000 a month. That's $12,000 a year with just 20 members. So somebody watching and listening, who's got an established audience, you know that you're going to welcome a lot more than 20 members, 40 members, that's $2,000 a month. Right. Like, we start to see the stacking ability and the compounding ability of a membership. And so for somebody who's got an established audience, here's what I would say. You're helping them with something already. You're clear on who you serve, you're clear on how you help. And you might be delivering that help via a course, you might be delivering that help in other means. But as we talked about at the beginning of the show, the gap is what a membership helps bridge between knowing what to do and how to do it and actually getting the result. And so if you want to help people get the best result, then build the bridge between the information and the implementation. Build the bridge between knowing what to do and how to do it, and the result that they will actually get that bridge is the membership. And so not only do you benefit as a business owner by having more stability and predictability and, and compounding recurring revenue in your business, but you're also able to help impact more people's lives by building that bridge in getting them to the actual result. So for people who want to make more and have more impact, a membership is absolutely the vehicle. And you're already poised for it because you've already got the audience, you've already demonstrated that you can help them. This just makes it Easier to help them get the result faster.
- [48:32]
B
Okay, so for all my course creators out there, and they're thinking, okay, Stu, do I do a front end membership or a backend membership? How do they figure that out?
- [48:42]
A
If you've already got a course, I would start with a backend membership. It is the fastest, easiest way because you've already in the course, demonstrated the value that you can provide, and you've taught them what to do and how to do it. But now they're like, well, wait a minute, the course is over. Where do I get support? Like what? Wait a minute, Amy, I got questions. How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I implement this for me, for mine? And so they get all caught up in the questions and that prevents them from implementing. And so the natural next step is, hey, you've made incredible progress during the course. Let's keep this momentum going. Come join us in the membership and what you'll see. Anybody who has a course that then offers a membership, the conversion rate is ridiculously high because they naturally want to keep that momentum going. So if you got a course, I'd start right off the bat with a back end membership.
- [49:33]
B
And you all know Stu taught me how to create my back end membership, which is momentum. You just said the name many years ago. It has brought in millions of dollars for me and my team and we literally followed everything he teaches in his membership program. So I just want to let you know, like, I literally am a testimonial for stuff. So, Stu, I have two more questions for you, and the last one is so good. So get ready.
- [49:59]
A
I get nervous, you get this cheeky.
- [50:01]
B
Grin on your face, and I'm like, oh, okay. So the next question is the number one. If you had to only choose one, the number one best retention strategy you have. So people get into your membership, you've got to keep them there. That's where the impact and the revenue comes from. So, number one tip for retention in a membership.
- [50:25]
A
Okay, here's the number one stat I want everybody to pay attention to. If you're running a membership, you will on average triple triple the lifetime value of a customer if they have a positive experience in the first 30 days. So for everybody watching and listening, that first 30 days is the most important window. So then the question becomes, okay, well, how can we create a positive experience? There are three ways. Number one, clarity. Meaning, people are coming into your membership because they're wanting to learn something. They're wanting to make progress in some area of their life. What we've got to do is we've got to provide them clarity about where they are in this journey and where they should put their energy and focus. Because fact of the matter is, not everybody's equal. And unfortunately, most people in a membership are treated the same. It's like a one size fits all experience. But somebody who is in the beginning stages of that journey, they're going to have a different focus than somebody who is more advanced. And so in our membership, the very first thing that we can do to help create a positive experience is give people clarity. Where are they in this journey and what should their focus be? Right now, the second thing is connection. So I like to demonstrate this with a quick story, because few years ago, my family and I, we moved to a new area, which meant our kids were going to a new school. And for all the parents watching, listening, you know, like, as parents, the only thing that you want is for your kids to feel settled. And so I remember we took the kids to school, we dropped them off, and Amy and I crossed our fingers. We're just like, please let this be a good day. We come back and we pick them up, and I'm waiting and I'm watching for the kids. And Marla comes running out first, and she's got this big smile on her face. And so I'm like. So she comes up. I said, marla, how was the day? She's like, dad, this is the best school ever. I'm like, really? I'm like, tell me why. She's like, okay, well, you know how I used to go to a Montessori school? I said, yeah. She said, there's a girl in my class that used to go to Montessori school, too. I'm like, that's amazing. She said, yeah, but it gets better. I said, how? She said, well, you know how I love riding horses? I said, well, yeah, of course I do. She said, well, she loves riding horses, too. I'm like, what? And she said, and the new stable that I'm riding at, her mom owns the stable. I'm like, what? I'm like, that is crazy. She's like, dad, this is the best school ever. Time out. Her whole framing that this was the best school ever was because she made one meaningful connection. If we can do the same inside of our memberships, connect our members to one other person, it can frame up the entire experience that they have. Remember, in a community, it's not just about the content. I say this all the time. People come for the content, but they stay for the community. So you gotta be intentional about connecting your members, and there's all kinds of strategies around that, but I'll just leave it there. The third to create a positive experience is you help your members achieve a quick win in that first 30 days. And sometimes more often than not, we think it's gotta be this gigantic win. It doesn't. It just needs to be progress. So we need to measure where they are when they start, and we need to help them experience some progress in that first 30 days. And then we reflect back to them. Oh, my gosh, Amy, look where you were when you joined and look at the progress you've made. Like, boom, high five to you. That creates momentum, it creates confidence, and that creates that positive experience that we're talking about. So at the end of the day, if you only focus on your onboarding, it will, on average, triple the lifetime value of your member. Focus on giving them clarity, connecting them, and helping them get a quick win.
- [54:22]
B
Oh, so good. I'm so glad I asked that question. Okay, so final question for you, and then I want to tell everybody what to do next after this episode, because what to do next is important. And so good. But my final question. I was thinking I'll ask you this question today, and then you know how in the fall I promote Digital Course Academy, and I'm all about courses. You're all about memberships. I get to answer this question when you interview me. Deal.
- [54:49]
A
Okay.
- [54:50]
B
You don't even know the question yet. I love that you said yes.
- [54:52]
A
Well, my question is, I'm open to it, because if I can. If I can throw it back to.
- [54:56]
B
You, you get to.
- [54:57]
A
Then I feel safe in that. Yeah. I've already been ambushed with the, you.
- [55:01]
B
Know, the other thing, the T word. Okay, so my question is, you have to argue this. You can't say it's not, why are memberships better than courses? And for the record, I get to answer, why are courses better than memberships in the fall? Deal. Okay.
- [55:19]
A
Okay.
- [55:19]
B
So I'm not going to argue with him. I'm not going to agree with everything he says. I want you all to know I'm not going to argue with him. I'm going to let him plead his case, and I'm going to leave it there. Since this episode is about memberships, why are memberships better than courses?
- [55:35]
A
Okay. The Canadian in me does not want a confrontation.
- [55:38]
B
I knew you didn't, but I promise I'm not going to fight it. I'm just going to say, okay.
- [55:42]
A
I know. Okay. But I actually. I don't know.
- [55:45]
B
You can't. You have to say why.
- [55:47]
A
Okay, I will give you a reason why. I lean a lean toward membership.
- [55:54]
B
Spoken like a true Canadian. I love it. Okay, why are we leaning toward this? Okay, you and I, we're just gonna say I'm gonna. I'm gonna break the rules. We firmly believe you need both. We firmly believe they go together. Peanut butter and jelly. Chocolate and peanut butter. We've said that for years, Stu. So that's why I want to have a little fun with a. Okay, but what if it wasn't peanut butter and chocolate? Why memberships are the best.
- [56:17]
A
Okay, point blank. It's because of stability. And there is nothing that creates stability more than recurring revenue. See, the downside to courses is that you need to continuously promote that course and it creates that up and down cycle of income. I love it because it creates that cash injection. But if you don't promote the course now, the income comes back down. And that's where a membership provides that steady, even keel predictability. So I love courses for the cash flow and the cash injection. I love memberships for the stability and the predictability.
- [57:02]
B
I have things to say about that, but I will save it to when you interview me about courses. So my friends, stay tuned. Okay, so now we got to tell people what's next because you have something really, really exciting that I want to talk about. So essentially, you have a free masterclass coming up. I want you to tell everybody what is the masterclass all about? And then I'll give everybody the URL and where to go.
- [57:30]
A
So it's real simple. The whole goal is to help you validate your idea, launch your membership, and welcome your first paying member.
- [57:42]
B
And I know in a masterclass. Wait, wait, wait. Seriously, I'm not even like playing. That is a lot. Like, that's huge.
- [57:49]
A
It's ambitious.
- [57:50]
B
Say it one more time. No. And it's good though. So if they get on this free masterclass, you're going to teach them how to say it one more time, validate their idea.
- [57:58]
A
So, like, you might be in a market and you might be thinking, is my market a good market for a membership? Well, there are three indicators of a great market for a membership. I'll tell you what they are and immediately you'll know whether your market is a good fit for a membership. So that's the first thing. Validate the idea. Second thing is I'm going to give you the word for word script for doing your founding member launch. And so I'm going to walk you through exactly what to say, how to say it so that you can put that message out and begin welcoming your first paying member. Then after you have got that first paying member. Now, obviously not everybody's going to be able to implement that during the call, but you'll know exactly what to do is what I'm walking you through. Then we'll talk about, like, what do you actually do inside of your membership to begin serving them ongoing. So we're going to validate the idea. I'm going to give you the script to launch your. Your membership, and then we're going to talk about the membership fundamentals to be able to grow that. So my hope is that by the end of that masterclass, people will know, yes, my market is good market for a membership number two. I know exactly what to say. In fact, I've got the script. I can go do this now. It's literally a email or a message that you're going to post. Like, that's why I'm saying, like, people will be able to do it by the end of the day. And then you'll have paying members. Like, how amazing is that? That's all going to be in the master class.
- [59:22]
B
If you're listening and you're like, there's no way that I could have pain members that fast. I promise you. I've seen Stu create this magic over and over and over again. Like, it's. He has major proof and he'll share it. He's really good at sharing a lot of case studies, a lot of stories of people just like you. Do not miss it. Totally free. Master class. Go to amyporterfield.com forward/Stew. Easy as that. Amyporterfield.com forward/stuff. Stu. So, Stu, thank you so much for being here. I have to say, dare I say it, I think this might have been my very favorite conversation around memberships because we went in so many different places. But at the end of the day, you really helped us understand recurring revenue is where it's at for your business. And I think that you just did an incredible job of explaining that. So thank you so very much for being on the show.
- [60:10]
A
Well, always. You know, I will be happy to talk about memberships and help you and your audience anytime, but I think one of the other reasons that you enjoyed it is because you like making me blush and squirm.
- [60:21]
B
Favorite thing, Favorite thing in the world. This might be my favorite episode because I got to tell that story.
- [60:26]
A
Yeah, it's great.
- [60:27]
B
Thank you.
- [60:27]
A
That is now on recording.
- [60:29]
B
You're so very welcome I'll take that. Turn it into a real. That one little part. So. Just joking. Stu, I love you to the moon and back. I'm so very glad that we get to talk about memberships and courses over and over and over again to help people grow their businesses. Thank you for being here. I can't wait for people to start growing their membership.
- [60:47]
A
Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you. Thanks, everybody.