Why Customers Buy When They Feel Like They Belong

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Amy Porterfield Show – "Why Customers Buy When They Feel Like They Belong"

Introduction

In the compelling episode titled "Why Customers Buy When They Feel Like They Belong," hosted by Amy Porterfield, listeners are introduced to the transformative concept of Identity Marketing. This episode delves deep into the shift from traditional transactional marketing to relationship-oriented strategies that foster a sense of belonging among customers. Amy engages in an insightful conversation with Veronica Romney, a pioneer in identity-driven marketing strategies, exploring how businesses can connect with their audiences on a profound, personal level to drive loyalty and sustainable growth.

Guest Introduction: Veronica Romney

Veronica Romney, affectionately known as "V" by her friends, is the guest of honor. As a former speaker and trainer for industry giants Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, Veronica brings a wealth of experience to the table. She is the author of the book "Identity Marketing: How to Create Loyal Lifelong Fans and a Legendary Brand," CEO of Rainmaker Residency, and host of the Rainmaker Podcast. Her expertise lies in helping business owners transition from handling all marketing tasks themselves to developing high-performing marketing teams that embody the brand's identity.

Understanding Identity Marketing

Identity Marketing is defined by Veronica as a strategy that connects a brand deeply with an individual's self-identity and aspirations. Unlike Brand Identity, which focuses on external differentiators like logos and colors, identity marketing taps into the internal self-concept of customers.

"Identity marketing is where you connect your brand so deeply with somebody's self-identity, their self-concept, the way they label themselves, who they are, but also importantly who they wish to become, that they will have a loyalty, a devotion equal to being buried in your brand."
(Veronica Romney, 13:25)

Veronica emphasizes the importance of shifting marketing messages from "buy this" to "be this," fostering a relationship-oriented approach rather than a purely transactional one.

Real-World Application: Talkbox Mom

To illustrate identity marketing, Veronica shares the story of Talkbox Mom, a company that empowers families to speak a new language within a day of purchasing their product. Originally perceived as a product targeting mothers, the identity marketing intensive revealed that customers were actually seeking to transform their entire family's identity.

"In the company name, it's Talkbox Mom. Literally, mom is the buyer. And that is 100% true. 99% of the time. However, what we realized was that they were buying it for the family's identity more than mom's identity."
(Veronica Romney, 22:36)

Through identity marketing, Talkbox Mom successfully reframed their message to speak to the "Fluency Family" identity, enabling deeper connections and opening new content opportunities.

The Identity Code Framework

Veronica introduces the Identity Code, a four-step framework designed to implement identity marketing effectively:

1. Find It: Conduct in-depth research to understand the language and self-concepts of your audience. This involves secret shopping your brand from the customer's perspective to uncover how they describe themselves.

   "You’re looking for language and sentiment around self-concept. So self-labels, how they talk to themselves externally, but also internally."
   (Veronica Romney, 28:42)

2. Prove It: Validate the identified identities through direct engagement, such as polls, surveys, and social media interactions. This ensures that the proposed identities resonate authentically with the audience.

   "You can use free social media as a microphone to validate your findings."
   (Veronica Romney, 28:42)

3. Tell Its Birth Story: Develop a compelling narrative around the identified identity, including non-negotiables, slogans, and the brand's mission. This step adds depth and context, making the identity meaningful and relatable.

   "What does it mean to be a posse? It's about more than just a name; it's a philosophy and a daily practice."
   (Veronica Romney, 33:29)

4. Dress It: Personify the identity through tangible elements like music, wardrobe, and other lifestyle facets. This step involves creating a visible and tangible representation of the identity, encouraging customers to embody it fully.

   "We're going to dress it, showcase your faith through what you wear and how you present yourself."
   (Veronica Romney, 35:08)

Rebranding and Audience Evolution

Amy shares her experience of rebranding her show from "Online Marketing Made Easy" to "The Amy Porterfield Show." Veronica highlights the critical aspect that audiences evolve, necessitating brands to adapt their identities accordingly.

"Our customers have made shifts. Their identities have changed, and so must our marketing strategies."
(Veronica Romney, 38:34)

Veronica recounts her personal journey, including her sister's battle with breast cancer, to illustrate how personal experiences can reshape one's identity and, consequently, their professional approach.

Implementing Identity Marketing Within Teams

Beyond customer-facing strategies, Veronica emphasizes the importance of internal identity within teams. She advocates for aligning team members' identities with the brand to ensure cohesive and empowered marketing efforts.

"Identity within the organization is everything. Empower your team to embody the brand's identity to drive authentic growth."
(Veronica Romney, 53:16)

Examples include renaming Slack channels to reflect the team’s identity, such as "Rainmakers" instead of "Marketing," fostering a sense of belonging and purpose among team members.

AI in Identity Marketing

Veronica is a strong proponent of leveraging Artificial Intelligence (AI) to enhance identity marketing. AI can help analyze vast amounts of data to identify prevalent language and sentiments, streamline the secret shopping process, and generate creative marketing ideas.

"AI can make sense of the mountain of findings and help you package that in an identity name, creating deeper meaning and context."
(Veronica Romney, 56:14)

She encourages business owners, especially solopreneurs, to utilize AI tools to handle multiple roles efficiently, from copywriting to social media management.

Urgency and Scarcity in Marketing: A Debate

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the effectiveness and ethics of using urgency and scarcity in marketing. While Amy acknowledges their traditional success, Veronica argues that overuse and misuse have led to buyer distrust and diminished effectiveness.

"Buyer discernment and buyer distrust is number one sentiment in society right now. People are desensitized to shock and awe in our marketing messaging."
(Veronica Romney, 65:00)

Veronica distinguishes between true urgency (authentic time-sensitive situations) and fabricated scarcity (fake timers and false promises), advocating for honesty to maintain trust and customer lifetime value.

Advice for Entrepreneurs

Veronica advises entrepreneurs to focus on authenticity, consistency, and building genuine relationships with their audience. Rather than relying on manipulative tactics, brands should position themselves as trustworthy partners committed to their customers' aspirations and identities.

"Hold out. As long as you remain consistent and don't yield to the gimmicks, I promise it will pay out."
(Veronica Romney, 61:07)

She underscores the importance of understanding and evolving with the changing identities of both the customers and the team, ensuring that marketing strategies remain relevant and effective.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Veronica promoting her book, "Identity Marketing," and encouraging listeners to implement the Identity Code framework within their businesses. Amy emphasizes the importance of building trust and fostering a sense of belonging among customers, reinforcing the episode's central theme.

"Identity Marketing will help you grow your email list so that you'll know exactly who you'll sell to when it's time to promote your offer."
(Amy Porterfield, 00:39)

Listeners are encouraged to connect with both Amy and Veronica on Instagram for additional resources and actionable prompts to kickstart their identity marketing journey.

Key Takeaways

• Identity Marketing focuses on aligning a brand with the customer's self-identity and aspirations, fostering deeper loyalty.
• The Identity Code Framework (Find It, Prove It, Tell Its Birth Story, Dress It) provides a structured approach to implementing identity marketing.
• Internal Identity within teams is crucial for authentic and cohesive marketing efforts.
• AI Tools can significantly enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of identity marketing strategies.
• While urgency and scarcity can drive quick sales, overuse leads to buyer distrust; authenticity and true urgency are essential for long-term success.

Notable Quotes

• "Identity marketing is where you connect your brand so deeply with somebody's self-identity... that they will have a loyalty, a devotion equal to being buried in your brand."
  (Veronica Romney, 13:25)

• "We're Rainmakers. We make it rain."
  (Veronica Romney, 53:16)

• "Buyer discernment and buyer distrust is number one sentiment in society right now."
  (Veronica Romney, 65:00)

• "Hold out. As long as you remain consistent and don't yield to the gimmicks, I promise it will pay out."
  (Veronica Romney, 61:07)

Resources Mentioned

• Book: Identity Marketing by Veronica Romney
• Instagram: Follow Amy Porterfield (@AmyPorterfield) and Veronica Romney (@Vivie) for additional resources and prompts.

For entrepreneurs looking to transform their marketing strategies and build enduring relationships with their audiences, this episode provides invaluable insights and practical frameworks to achieve sustainable growth through identity marketing.

Transcript

[Veronica Romney]

Hey there.

[Amy Porterfield]

Welcome to the Amy Porterfield show.

[Veronica Romney]

Identity marketing is making the argument instead of pitch slapping your way into getting people to purchase from you, what if you just extended the invitation for them to be and to become? That feels very different. I think buy this energy is very transactional and be this energy is very relationship oriented. Relationship marketing, which is my favorite form of marketing. And that's the contest.

[Amy Porterfield]

Hey, before we get going today, I have some exciting news. My live bootcamp subskribed is back and better than ever. Subscribe 2025 is focused on helping you attract your first 100 email subscribers who will become your first online buyers. If you dream of quitting your 9 to 5, but you need proof that you can make money first. Subscribed will help you grow your email list so that you'll know exactly who you'll sell to when it's time to promote your offer. Now I do this with four easy to follow live trainings. A private community to ask questions and pitch and catch ideas. Accountability if you find yourself procrastination scrolling more often than you'd like to admit. All in a clear beginner friendly first this, then that kind of framework that you can easily follow inside the bootcamp over a week, all for just $37. Now I only offer this once a year, so I want you to go to amyporterfield.comsubscribed right now. Don't wait amyporterfield.comsubscribed and I'll see you inside. Foreign let's talk about my dog, scout. Scout is 8 years old, he's a labradoodle and he's the goodest boy in all the land. And I bring this up to tell you that I identify as a dog mom. I mean to my core I'm so obnoxious that I've been known to say to Hobie, well, obviously, you know, I've given birth to this dog, so of course he wants to be with me every minute. And Hobie reminds me you feed him, so that's why he wants to be with you. And I find that offensive. And I just love dogs. And the funny thing is Hobie's ex wife is my really good friend and years and years ago she said, amy, remember before you had a dog, you did not like any animals. Like she'd bring her dog over to my house and I'd be a little slightly offended. Like, please don't bring that animal in my house. Yeah, I used to be this kind of girl. And the reason for that is because I was raised with A dad who he was raised on a farm, so he believed that all animals belonged on a farm or nowhere else. So you can bet I did not have pets growing up of any kind. And so when I got older, I got my first dog, fell madly in love, and realized, where has this been all my life? And so now I just am a huge, huge fan. And anytime I meet another dog owner, it's the first thing I love to talk about. So there's really two identities I have. Number one, dog mom, two, business owner. And I think that ego is tied into identity. I'd be curious what my guest today would say to that, but I already did the interview. I always do my intros after because I'm thinking I have a big ego around how proud I am of my dog scout, and I have an ego around how proud I am of the business I've built and the work that I do. And so I. I'm guessing ego ties into identity, but I'm really, really proud to talk about these two things and be deeply involved in both. And so I was thinking, how do. How do you know what you identify with? Like, how do you know? Like, oh, my identity is xyz. I think one little indicator is, can you talk about it morning, noon, and night? Are you sometimes embarrassed that you think about it and talk about it way too much and you think everybody else wants to talk about dogs in business? Duh. Right. I think it's a good indicator of your identity. So I'm curious what your different identities are. You got to DM me at Amy Porterfield. I'm just at Amy Porterfield on Instagram. Really would like to know. So why are we talking about this? Well, my guest today is an expert. She's actually the pioneer of identity driven marketing strategies, and her name is Veronica Romney. Maybe I should start there. Her friends call her V, so naturally I'm calling her V. And what I love about these strategies that she has pioneered is that essentially she's helping you shift your marketing messages from buy this to be this. So she's changing your marketing messaging. If you really can adopt the strategies that we're going to talk about here. Now, this is a longer episode. I typically don't go this long. I couldn't help myself. I literally needed to ask her every single question because here's how I feel if I'm loving it and deeply into it, feeling like, wait a second, this could make my business better. This could help me boost my revenue. This can help me connect with my audience at a deeper level. In my mind, I'm thinking, oh, my listeners are feeling the same way. Like, we're very similar, my friend, you and me. And so I thought, if I'm loving it and getting an education, it felt like a college education, like a college course. This episode, I'm thinking you're going to love it as well. So a little bit more about our guest. Like I said, her name is Veronica Romney, and one thing we have in common is she's a former speaker and trainer for Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi. So when they partnered up, she worked with them, which I thought was really cool, since obviously my background with Tony Robbins. She's also the author of the book Identity Marketing how to Create Loyal Lifelong Fans and a Legendary Brand. No matter what you sell or the size of your budget, we're all small businesses. I think that speaks to us. She's also the CEO of Rainmaker Residency, where she helps business owners step out of the marketing seat and develop a high performing marketing team. I know some of you are intrigued just to hear that. And also she's the host of the Rainmaker podcast and there she shares the no bs Real world marketing strategies to help entrepreneurs scale skill effectively. So we get into a lot in this episode, so I won't keep you any longer. But I'll tell you this, there was a part of this episode that I wanted to cut. The minute it came out of her mouth, I thought, oh, this is so against what I teach or how I believe I'm just going to take this part out. And then I thought, you know, I. I'm always the nice girl, right? I want to be polite and considerate to my guest and I don't want to ruffle feathers. But I thought, I think Veronica, my new friend V, I think, I think she'd like this banter. So I said, okay, I don't agree essentially with what you just said. Here's how I think about it. You know, share with me your thoughts. And then she said something else. She's like, tell me I'm wrong. And it was a great conversation. I think she kind of saw what I was saying. I absolutely saw what she was saying, and I think it was healthy. We might not be on the exact same page, but it was great to have the conversation. So it's kind of near the end.

[Veronica Romney]

We.

[Amy Porterfield]

We kind of go back and forth a little bit, so I thought it was interesting. All right, my friend, I won't make you wait any longer. Let's jump in. I told you this off camera, but I was reviewing my questions and I'm like, dang, these questions are good. And not because I wrote them, but because I really want to know every single answer for myself. That's when you know it's going to be a good interview. So are you ready to jump in?

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah. You can be my hype woman whenever you want. That was really good.

[Amy Porterfield]

I will, because I have been looking forward to this and I want to start kind of at a weird place because as I was researching you, I realized that both of your parents were entrepreneurs, and I didn't have that experience. Mine were blue collar to the bone. So I'm so curious. What are some of the big lessons that you learned from being raised by two entrepreneurs?

[Veronica Romney]

Oh, I really appreciate that because I. We talk about identity a lot more on this podcast. But my identity as the eldest daughter of two Cuban immigrant parents is very important to me because I've always had that mantle or that responsibility to make their sacrifices worth it. And I know my therapist has told me that's not true, but I'm just telling you, I do, I carry that because they went through a lot and they started a company out of necessity. Like, my mom was in medical school, her first year of medical school in the University of Havana. And then my dad was a national trainer for a handball team. And so when they came over, all of that ceases to exist. None of that is recognized. You start over, not just in language, in education and everything. And so two Cuban immigrants in South Florida, like, what's a necessity in South Florida? It's raging hot and humid. People need air conditioning. We're going to go into trade. You don't need, you know, you don't need a diploma for trade school. And so they started an air conditioning company. And I'm old enough that I sat front row to that experience. Like, I saw the years where dad and mom both got a brand new car. And then I also personally remember them moving their office back into the garage and pulling out a second mortgage to float because somebody had stolen money from them. And like, just some really crazy things that 14, 15 year old me really distinctly remembers, you know, the contention, the fights, all the things, because it's so stressful. So, yeah, I, I personally have grown up and in the shadows of entrepreneurs, I always knew that it would be very difficult once I decided to, like, answer the call of the wild myself, which happened after I had my first son. But I didn't know how gritty and resourceful my parents had to be until I had to be in those moments. And you don't know how much you don't know until you're in it.

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, yeah.

[Veronica Romney]

Oh, man.

[Amy Porterfield]

It's a wild ride. And I think if you did know what it wouldn't.

[Veronica Romney]

You wouldn't do it.

[Amy Porterfield]

You would do it. Yeah. So I'm so glad I was, I was clueless.

[Veronica Romney]

It's like having kids. If I knew what I knew, I wouldn't have them.

[Amy Porterfield]

Exactly. So. But then a beautiful thing comes from it.

[Veronica Romney]

And I'm really proud of my parents. They just recently retired after 33 years and it's like the definition of the American dream. They retired in St. Augustine, Florida, in a beach house. And like, couldn't be prouder for them. And what it has done for me, an example. And then obviously I get to bring that to my children now. They get to have multi generational examples.

[Amy Porterfield]

Of entrepreneurship in their lives, which is fantastic. I mean, I love that my son has been raised by two parents, his mom and I'm his stepmom, both entrepreneurs. And I think. And I love that he sees strong women and women going after what they want. And so it just makes me really happy. Well, let's talk about why you're here today, because I love your message. Just overall, I love how you encourage brands to shift their messaging from buy this to be this, something that you call identity marketing. So can you break down what that means and why it's such a powerful shift and really where you see businesses getting it wrong? I know that's a loaded questions, but talk to me about it all.

[Veronica Romney]

It's a great question. And so let's start with just even defining what identity marketing is. If you've never heard of this concept because it's newer. So. So identity marketing, the way that I define it is where you connect your brand so deeply with somebody's self identity, their self concept, the way they label themselves, who they are, but also importantly who they wish to become, that they will have a loyalty, a devotion equal to being buried in your brand, which we have fun stories that we'll get into. Now. Your audience, the people that you mentor and teach, are super smart. So I also want to take a pause and differentiate what I mean mean by identity marketing versus brand identity, because both are so important. Not one replaces the other. I'm making the argument that maybe one should come before the other though. So brand identity is like everything in my control to differentiate myself in the marketplace. It's why I chose my rust color, red. It's my favorite color. It's why I have the logo or the typography or their brand voice. Like, it's my gift wrapping. I get to gift wrap my brand. I get to gift wrap my services, my offers. I get to differentiate and showcase to the world why this and why you want to open this and have this under your tree, so to speak. That's brand identity. And like, there are some iconic brands like Harley Davidson that you know, Harley, like, it is such an icon, American brand, beloved. Oof. But then identity marketing is not an external differentiation. It's an internal way of being and defining yourself. So identity marking, when I say you're connecting your brand with somebody's identity, it's I identify not as a Harley Davidson buyer, I identify as a Harley Davidson hog. And I will then be buried in a custom Harley Davidson casket that my family will personally commission so that I am being buried and remembered for time and all eternity as a hog.

[Amy Porterfield]

Amen. The tattoo on your arm. When I worked there, I just kept thinking, I'm working for a brand that people put this on their body.

[Veronica Romney]

Yes, literally. Yes, literally. So that's, that's really what I'm saying. And so for me, the marketing, I love marketing. I've been a marketer for almost two decades. Like, this is all that I know other than like my 15 year marriage. Like, this is the longest relationship I have ever been in. And I still get the goosies, I still get goosebumps, and I'm still just enamored with this craft. But a lot of marketing is very masculine energy. It's very outcome based. Buy this, to have this, do this, achieve this, think about, like just how I even I'm expressing it, it feels a particular way in executing it and being the recipient of it. Identity marketing is making the argument, instead of pitch slapping your way into getting people to purchase from you, what if you just extended the invitation for them to be and to become? That feels very different. I think buy this energy is very transactional and be this energy is very relationship oriented. Relationship marketing, which is my favorite form of marketing. And that's the contest, that's the argument of the book.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, so there's two quotes that I love. One, marketing isn't about getting people to buy, it's about getting them to belong. I thought that was really powerful. And then my other people don't buy products, they buy a version. This one's powerful. They buy a version of themselves they want to be. Can you kind of drill down in that a little bit? A version of themselves they want to be? Because all I can think of as A marketer is dang. As a marketer, I've got some work to do to make someone, you know, realize I want to be a version of this. So can you kind of elaborate on that?

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah. I mean, as human beings, the psychology of just who we are, we're always seeking to improve. I mean, whether we're seeking new food sources, new mating partners, like we are always seeking in the pursuit of gain, gain of possession of things for our survival, but also gain of our. Of our highest selves. Right. Like, we're always in that pursuit. I know that I am and everybody that I speak to, like, we are wanting to be better tomorrow than we were today and obviously better than yesterday. So when you're asking people to belong, to be, to become, you're asking them to not be apologetic for being a different version of who they are today. That's really, really powerful. Because oftentimes, like, there's scarcity and there's fear in that. If I were to change, would I not be loved by my family or my spouse? If I were to change, would I alienate my friends if I were like. Right, but. But that's contra. Like, that's counterproductive because we want to be somebody better. And I genuinely believe that brands that can speak to that aspirational reach and can facilitate that transformation and speak to that clearly in their marketing messaging, those are the ones that will win the long game. Not the short game of transactions, but the long game of relational marketing and relational business practices. And so, like, for me, I buy a lot of athletic wear. Like, I. I have the Amazon sports bras, and then I bought the $180.

[Amy Porterfield]

Amen. I got it. I actually wore it this morning. The one with your posture.

[Veronica Romney]

Yes, yes.

[Amy Porterfield]

Most expensive thing in the world.

[Veronica Romney]

180 is stupid. It's $180 sports bra that fixed your posture. Why did I do that? Because I realized that I'm hindering my progress at the gym because I have horrific structure. Like, I have really bad. I hunch my shoulders. I tend to work on a computer. Like I'm stunting the person I wish to become, which is this baddie at the gym that can lift heavier than I do presently, but I'm always coming out with neck pain or something. So I literally bought $180 sports bar. Not because it's a better bra than the 20something dollar on Amazon, but because that would help me become the woman I desire to become when I stand in the mirror at the time gym.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, that. That paints a really good Picture I did the exact same thing. So I'm subscribing to this. So a lot of times when I teach something, I love to bring it to life with stories. Like real stories or real people, especially businesses that might not be the biggest of the biggest, but they're able to make it happen because my listeners don't have the huge businesses, but they're doing big things. And, and so with that, can you share some stories of people you've worked with, businesses you've worked with that have been able to use identity marketing and really make a difference and make a movement with their brand?

[Veronica Romney]

Oh, gosh. So this is, this is the best part. I mean, you know this because you wrote a book. And by the way, it's the hardest freaking thing I've ever done in my life. Oh my God.

[Amy Porterfield]

Before she came on, we were talking about her book just came out. I'm like, oh, give it six months till you feel normal again.

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah, my nervous system is still not a hundred percent like, truth be told. So yes, I appreciate that permission. Like it's going to take you a couple more months. I'm like, okay, it will. But the fun thing about that, you know, as opposed to writing an identity marketing keynote speech, which is like a 60 minute product on stage, the container that is a book gives you so much space for really great stories. So we have really juicy stories of Harley Davidson, Taylor Swift, Swifties. I mean, come on, Barbie, her comeback, like there's just a lot of fun stuff. But you and I know that as soon as I go out and say, oh, Harley this and Barbie this and Taylor this, the small business owner, who I am, who my parents are, right. And were like, we're going to disqualify ourselves immediately because we're like, well, I'm not 120 year history of Harley Davidson. I'm not famous like Taylor Swift and I don't have, I don't have the budget, the marketing budget of Barbie and Mattel. Are you joking? I'm a small business owner. I'm a solopreneur. I eat what I hunt. So can I leverage the psychology of identity? That was the really fun part about this container having in a book. Putting that framework in the book is that, yes, it teaches you at any stage, at any size that anyone can leverage the psychology of identity, which I'm very proud of. And we have lots of fun stories in the book and we have a section called Identity Marketing Legends of more small business owners that got to use this and put it into practice. So one of my favorite stories is a company called Talkbox Mom. She's now, at this point, when you work with me, you might just become my best friend. Like, this is just a problem that I might have. So she was a former client who now has become like a beloved friend. And we've even gone on family trips together at this point.

[Amy Porterfield]

That's like, oh, so you're not messing around?

[Veronica Romney]

Oh, no, no, I'm not messing around. I swim in the deep end of relationships. Right. But she and her whole crew came through one of our identity marketing intensives, which is like a two day workshop through our framework. Right. And the company name. So let's think about the company name. It's called Talkbox Mom. So who's the buyer? Mom. Moms, literally mom. And what they do is they help families speak a foreign language the same day that they buy their boxes. A Spanish box, a French box, a German box. Like, which is a very bold promise, especially when you're standing against the Rosetta Stones. If you're OG like me or, you know, the duolingos of the world. This is a very competitive, oversaturated space of foreign teaching foreign language. Right. But they are bold and they tell people, you buy from us and you will be speaking within the day that you buy. Because what we focus on isn't grammatical correction or even like, it's not about reading and writing. It's how little kids actually learn foreign languages is by repetition and just talking. So they make talking really fun. Like, you know, if you say I'm hungry in Spanish, tango amedex. But they'll be like, say it like a pirate Tango ombre. And like, the kids just eat that stuff up. It's fun, right?

[Amy Porterfield]

Yeah.

[Veronica Romney]

So in the company name, it's Talkbox Mom. Literally, mom is the buyer. And That's. That is 100% true. 99% of the time. It is the female figure in the household who is making the purchasing decision. However, when going through the framework, when going through our experience of the workshop, she brought her whole team. What they realized, even in the first step, which is the find it step, was as they were kind of secret shopping with this new identity lens. It wasn't that mom was buying the box because she, on her own, independently desired to speak Spanish. She was buying it for the identity of, not her aspirational. You know, after she was buying it for the family's identity, she wanted the family to be Spanish speaking because they had a trip to Mexico in a couple months. So how great would it be as a Family. If we all got to speak French before we go to Paris or speak German before we go to, like, Berlin. Right? And so as we were going through this exercise, it was like this big epiphany that was like, yes, mom is the buyer. But when we're talking about leveraging identity in our marketing, it was really speaking to the family's identity more than even mom's identity.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

And then because again, we're marketers, we do all this fun stuff, and we get the validation that we need to move on to our marketing assets. Fluency Family, that identity came forward, that identity was adopted and, like, brought. And now there could be a family fluency podcast. There could be even more content opportunities or brand collaborations, because how many other great companies are in the pursuit of serving the family, not just mom? So that's one of my favorite examples of a super saturated market, but they've had enormous success because they are literally elevating the identity of the family, even though the buyer is singular.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, so let's get really specific here. Tell me, because sometimes it's. I take a little longer to understand, like, truly. And so I got to dig down a little deeper. So family fluency. So that was. That's what they're going after. Like, what's one way that they did that? How did they show up in marketing that way?

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah, so it's so funny. I just did a training for them, because one of the big ways that they sell is they hit these conferences, these summer conferences real hard. Like, you have these homeschooling conferences, you have these education conferences that a lot of these families and mothers buying mothers will come to to buy supplies for their families. And so they were. We were going through, like, how do we incorporate this fluency family identity in our sales conversation, in our marketing pitches, in some of the collateral? How do we speak to that? How do we bring that forward? And so we did an entire training where we took some of those atypical kind of sales qualifying questions that you would ask in the booth, and we reframed them by asking the mom, or even the parental figure doesn't always have to be mom, but, like, even just that parental figure who's standing in front of this person, right? This representative from the company, getting her or him to speak of her family. Okay, and what is your family life now? What would you like your family to be like? Well, we want to be closer. Well, how. What? A more connecting, bonding experience and all learning a foreign language together at the same starting place. Like, just asking the questions really for the person that she's buying for, which is the family's identity.

[Amy Porterfield]

Got it. So once you figure out that identity, and we're going to talk a little bit more about how to figure that out, but once you do, then you start thinking, how do I talk about this, how do I communicate? How do I connect with this very specific identity? Okay. So I could see it really coming to life.

[Veronica Romney]

But this is why I go back to brand identity versus identity marketing. Because oftentimes when companies are struggling, right, it's a tighter economy, there's a lot of buyer encroachment. Like, you know, things have been 2024, 2025. So what happens in the pinch is I think companies, I mean, certainly for me, when I go and speak on stages and I'm in these like conferences or association stages, a lot of people are talking about rebrands, rebrands, rebrands. But to me it's a miss. Because unless you do the work of identity marketing first, then how do you know how to integrate the truest identity in the company's rebrand, in the new marketing collateral, in the new copy of the website, in the new sales scripts, Unless you really, you know, discover the truest identity of who your person's buying for and who they seek to become?

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, so how do you discover that? What, what are we doing here? Because I know tons of people are listening that are their own marketers in their own business. So like, where do I even start with something like that? Because I know that most of those that are listening, they're like me. I would love to stop saying buy this, instead saying be this. But how do you even get there?

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah. So in the, in the book we have this four part framework. We call it the identity code. Because, you know, I'm a marketer.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yes. Give me that code. I want it.

[Veronica Romney]

The code, right? And it's, it's four steps. Because I'm like, I'm not going to give you a 15 step process.

[Amy Porterfield]

And I love a good step by step, walk me through it.

[Veronica Romney]

Like, it's just, you can't make it too hard to even get off the pedal. Right? So anyway, so step one is we find it. And when I say find it, it's basically the practice of what corporations spend millions of dollars doing, which is secret shopping themselves.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

But oftentimes when shop our web assets, our online presence, you're doing it from a place. I'm saying this lovingly, but we do it from a place of ego. Like, what are people saying about me? What are like, how do they feel towards me? How do I look? Is that picture dated? Oh, my gosh, I'm no longer blonde. Like, those are the things that we go through when we're going through our social media profiles and it's like, been a minute. Or we go through our website assets. Right. I teach you in the book. But also like, the reframe is that I want you to secret shop your brand. And if you don't have a brand, let's say you're like starting from scratch, you can certainly secret shop people who have done a great job at trying to attract the same buyer that you seek to attract, to sell, to serve. Okay, so we're going to secret shop, but you're going to do it with an identity pair of glasses. You're not looking at what they think about you. You go aside. What you're actually looking for, deeply looking for, is what they're saying about themselves, positive or negative. Okay, so if in the comments, people are like, I'm a bad mom, I'm a good mom, I'm a bad business owner. I'm a great. Like, what? And again, before we can tell them the words that they should use for themselves, like before we say imposter syndrome, I remember when I started my business, I didn't know what the hell that meant. I didn't know what imposter syndrome was. And then you become an entrepreneur, everyone says you're like, oh, I have that now. I'm like diagnosing myself.

[Amy Porterfield]

Right, right, right.

[Veronica Romney]

But before we give them our language, what you're really looking for when you secret shop yourself is what are they saying about themselves with their own language? Not our fancy stuff with their language. How are they referencing themselves? Who do they seek to become? Because it's not going to be always so easy. It's not gonna be like swifties, you know, like, they're not gonna just say things like that. So what you're looking for is language and sentiment around self concept. So self labels, how they talk to themselves externally, but also internally.

[Amy Porterfield]

So that means we have to listen more than we talk.

[Veronica Romney]

100%. Okay, got it. And. And you're going to be sitting on top of a mountain of stuff. Because, like, oftentimes when you're doing independently, you're going through all these different, like, online, you know, areas, corners of the Internet as a team. You can divide and conquer. So somebody has the Reddit thread, somebody has the YouTube comments, somebody has the Facebook group or the Instagram comments or the hashtags. Like, everybody kind of it depends on how big or small your team is. But you're basically scouring and you're pulling and you're. It's. You should be sitting on top of a mountain of language, which is where the AI stuff can really help you. Then start to bring it. And like the word cloud technology can be like, okay, which words are the most frequently used? How are they referencing themselves? But that's really the first step.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, step two.

[Veronica Romney]

Okay, so using talkbox mom, they found, you know, bilingual came up a lot, Talking came a lot. Fluent fluency, family. A lot of that language started come up and stuff. One, step two, because this is what happens. We are as business owners and I, and I say this as a Cuban woman, I am the most impatient business owner you will meet. Like, I want to execute so fast. But we have to prove it. There's some fun examples in the book where like even like the Budweisers and the Googles and these jug. Microsoft, these juggernaut companies, Pepsi, Pepsi tried to call us the Pepsi generation. We were like, we are not your generation. Thank you very much. Like, there are examples where even the biggest brands with the biggest budgets get a identity wrong. So we can't skip the step of validation and proving it. The fun thing with proving it is like, you don't need these expensive focus groups because again, I don't have that money. All you need is to think of yourself a little bit like a comedian. Because here's the beautiful thing about comedians, or just like the work of improv is like, before we ever see Kevin Hart or any of these, like huge personalities in their Netflix specials, they were testing their material and their jokes and their timing in like these dirty little clubs in the middle of bloody nowhere, like little holes in the wall where everyone's smoking. You're like, what's happening? Where's the fire code? Like, right, that. That's how comedians workshop their material and that's how they get the validation for their jokes before we ever see it in prime time. The cool thing is I'm not telling you to go into a dirty club.

[Amy Porterfield]

Thank you.

[Veronica Romney]

Please don't do that. That would be dangerous. I'm telling you that you have free social media as a microphone for you to be a comedian. You get to find what you found in step one. You get to kind of put out in some polls and surveys and social 24 hour expiring stories, and you get to use these digital assets that are free to get validation. So, for example, in the first one, talk and talking, those two words Came up a ton. And a clever marketer would be like, ooh, talk tribe. Let's call them the talk tribe. That's really cool. Okay, well, hold on a minute. Because when we put that on stories, tribe is a controversial word that can. That can be cultural appropriation. So even though it's tnt and who doesn't love a good alliteration?

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, love it.

[Veronica Romney]

Love didn't validate. In fact, it got a negative response. So good freaking thing. We took a beat just to make sure that we could prove some of the language or some of the names that we had come up with. Step one. So that's the prove it step. And we can do that again for zero money because of the gift of the Internet. The third step is now that we're like, okay, Swifties, hogs, Fluency, family, smash, army, whatever. Right now it's like, why? What does that even mean? Like, Alex Cotone is another phenomenal example where she calls him the Copy Posse. Like, you're not just a copywriter, you are a posse member. But what does that mean? Like, when. Like, I remember when I had my kids and I, you know, Miles and James. Like, I remember my family, everyone that I knew, like, well, why'd you name them Miles? Why did you name them James? Like, we desperately want to know meaning behind names. Like, why did I name the dog Kaya? I'm like, because it's crawdads. We're the crawdads. I was going to say.

[Amy Porterfield]

Of course you did.

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah. She's a North Carolina girl. Of course she's Kaya and her middle name is Playa. Because I'm so clever. Like, it's just a thing. So in the third step, we're giving deep context and meaning. So because Amy, the last thing I was going to bloody do is put together another strategy that would be gimmicky and shallow. No, absolutely not. So I wasn't going to empower everybody just to start calling people stuff. What does it mean to be a part of the posse? Like, if you literally go to Copy Posse's website, which I encourage everybody to do, it's phenomenal. It's like identity marketing, like, in real life.

[Amy Porterfield]

So true. And I love Alex. She's been on the show.

[Veronica Romney]

She's fantastic. But you will see that they have a posse philosophy. They have non negotiables. They have. I mean, it goes beyond just a mission statement and value. Like, what does it mean to be posse? What does it mean if I literally tattoo the word posse and mark myself for life? What does it mean.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yeah, I love that.

[Veronica Romney]

Okay, so that's the third step is we're going to tell its birth story. We're going to tell. We're going to have our non negotiables. We're going to have a slogan. You want to talk about identity marketing? We won't even get into politics. It's one of the best plays of identity marketing I've ever seen. Okay, we won't do that anyway.

[Amy Porterfield]

Please, please, I beg you.

[Veronica Romney]

No. And the fourth step, the final step of the code is where we get to dress it. And so this is the personification. This is where you take an intangible and you make it feel tangible, because to be a swifty or to be a hog or a posse member, like, you showcase your faith. We do it when we wear a cross. We do it by what we wear, what we put on our, you know, where we live. And so we want to help people personify this identity. And so that does take on the nature of swag. And, like, you know, when a rainmaker walks in the room, she has a very particular playlist because, like, you know, when Kobe Bryant would turn into the black Mamba, he did it through music. Same thing with Beyonce to Sasha Fierce or, you know, Dwayne Johnson into the Rock. They literally will put music on to, like, take on this identity. It's. It's a. It's an authentic identity. It's a part of them. So we go through this exercise of music and wardrobe and a space, and we bring the identity to life. So it's as if it was a walking, talking thing. You would feel what it is to be that those are the four steps.

[Amy Porterfield]

Would the Fluency Family, are they using that in their marketing, or is it just a feeling?

[Veronica Romney]

No, they are, absolutely. And this is where it gets really fun, because this is now. This is like, you know, marketing 102. So now we're taking it up a notch because there's the aspirational identity when you're still yet a prospect. So a prospect is somebody who's never purchased from you. Like, they're in that zero to $1 courtship phase where, like, they follow you, but they haven't purchased from you, but they maybe want to, but I don't know, like, it's very much this, like, cat and mouse kind of courtship that you go through prospect land, right? Like you're courting somebody to then become hopefully a customer and join us in customer land. Fluency family is a phenomenal, aspirational identity for somebody who is yet to Buy. If I buy from Talkbox Mom, I would love to become a fluency family.

[Amy Porterfield]

Gotcha.

[Veronica Romney]

Now what's really cool is once they purchase and they've joined us on customer land, how does a fluency family remain fluent? Well, you got to keep going, you got to keep using it. So you could possibly join our membership called the Consistency Crew. Okay, so do you see how identity actually its it's fun because you can embed it in the front end of your marketing for prospects who have never purchased from you, but you can also leverage it in the customer world. And now we stretch that $1 to 2, 3, 4, 5.

[Amy Porterfield]

Real quick. Before we continue, I've got some exciting news. My live Bootcamp subskribed is back and better than ever. Subscribe 2025 is focused on helping you attract your first 100 email subscribers who will become your first online buyers. If you dream of quitting your 9 to 5. But you need proof that you can make money first. Subscribed will help you grow your email list so that you'll know exactly who you'll sell to when it's time to promote your offer. Now I do this with four easy to follow live trainings. A private community to ask questions and pitch and catch ideas. Accountability if you find yourself procrastination scrolling more often than you'd like to admit. All in a clear beginner friendly first this, then that kind of framework that you can easily follow inside the bootcamp over a week all for just $37. Now I only offer this once a year so I want you to go to amyporterfield.com subscribed right now. Don't wait amyporterfield.com forward/subscribed and I'll see you inside. This is great. I'm so glad you walked through the step four steps because I didn't even have that in my interview question. And as you started talking I was like, hold on, I need to understand this better. So you had mentioned rebranding a little earlier and I want to touch on that. So I recently rebranded the Amy Porterfield Show. Thank you. And it was a really big decision because online marketing made easy was my identity and had been around since 2013 and it did well. So some people started to say why would you ever do that? And then I started freaking out in my head, oh my gosh, am I making a huge mistake? But I've often said that one of the reasons I rebranded the Amy Porterfield show is that my audience, they have changed, they have grown, they are different.

[Veronica Romney]

So glad you bring us up.

[Amy Porterfield]

So when I saw it in your book, I'm like, hold on a second. Because you've talked about, you know, rebranding and the fact that a lot of us want to rebrand because we want to rebrand our businesses, but the truth is, our customers, they've made shifts. So talk about why that's so important.

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah. Okay, so this gets me again. I get feisty, so I get really frustrated. I. Company rebrands are super fun. As a marketer, I love, love participating in them. I love consulting private clients around on their rebrands. It is such a fun project. However, in the pursuit of our own individual greatness, we focus a lot on the fact that our identity has changed. And I completely and empathetically understand that. I can tell you for a fact that I am a radically different human being today than I was a year ago, a year and a half ago. Right. Like, I've gone through some personal stuff with my sister and everything. Now, with that said, if I'm going through a rebrand, what makes you think that your buyer is not going through their own radical rebrand? Of course we are. And this is either going to be because life is life, like my sister getting sick. Life is life. Or it's because collectively, we've been pushed into a collective rebrand because of a pandemic, because of a stifling political atmosphere that asked way more than just who you were voting for. More, like, I think about AI, I think about the cost of life. I think about my children never being able to afford a house. Like, what's happening? Like, there's just a lot that we, as a society globally, have been forced through that have all called to question, who am I? And I just find it frustrating that when people come to me, and they are, and again, I hold space for venting, I vent to it. Feels great. But, like, when I get the V signal, the bat signal in the air, like, help. I call it the V signal, right? When I get those distress boxes, and they're like, you know, my marketing messaging has worked for years. Isn't working anymore. I'm like, yeah, because the buyer who you speak to isn't the same person that you were serving a year ago, five years ago, Sister, hello.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yes. You don't even know. That is so powerful. I have been hearing how many people are saying, oh, my gosh, my launching isn't working like it used to. My evergreen, my live, my social media isn't converting anymore. And what if it's the fact that your audience has evolved or changed.

[Veronica Romney]

It has to. It has to, it has to. And, and so, like, I'm such a proponent of, like, great, you know, ideal customer avatar work. And I've done all the worksheets and I love the Persona stuff. Like, it's all great, but if you haven't touched that in a minute, you might want to have that on the first thing on your list because again, I'll give you a personal story. So my sister, in October 2023, was diagnosed with breast cancer. And she's young, she's 32, and had already spread from breast tissue to the lymphatic system, which is not good. Not good. Anybody who's familiar with the cancer journey situation. Now let me, before anybody freaks out, my sister is today a breast cancer survivor.

[Amy Porterfield]

Thank God. I was hoping you guessed that.

[Veronica Romney]

Yes.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

Now, watching her identity change, obviously she didn't identify as a cancer anything, and now she's not only a cancer patient, but she's a part of the breast cancer community, which is its own identity. I mean, you go through these airports or these grocery stores and they ask you to donate a dollar or round up your bill and you're like, no. And then all of a sudden it really impacts you very closely right. Now, I have always identified, always, like, literally my nickname is a little girl, which I don't know if this is a good thing either, but, like, was Flocka, which is skinny.

[Amy Porterfield]

I've never been called that. V. So what's that like?

[Veronica Romney]

Well, it's at 37, when you're not so Flocka anymore, it's hard. So I think I'm going through that too. But it's just really interesting because that was like literally a pet nickname as a little girl. And so I've always identified as a fit person. Literally, my family would call me those type of names. And if I'm being really honest, I would pursue that identity with vanity driving that pursuit. Vanity was driving it. Vanity was holding the wheel. You know what I mean? Now my sister gets diagnosed with possibly a life altering, life ending type of scenario. And like, we go all in as a family, and it's like the most aggressive possible plan you could go through. Nobody should witness that. It's really hard. In addition to witnessing her identity and our family's identity change, as we figure out how who we are around this thing, what I started to notice again, not at first, very obviously, but subconsciously and then more mindfully to the front of my awareness, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, my identity is changing. But it's interesting. I've always, and I still to this day would tell you that I identify as a fit person person, but the source of my identity has changed. If vanity drove those behaviors that affirmed my identity pre cancer diagnosis, what drives my eating and working out and sauna and cold plunge. And I have an app on my phone that literally scans barcodes of food labels to tell me if it's carcinogenic. I'm a psycho now. I've gone crazy. But that behavior that affirms same identity, but the source is longevity. I don't care. But I actually threw out the weight in my house. Like, I don't weigh myself. I want to live to a hundred. I want my children to never witness me going through that same chemo journey that I watched Valerie go through. Like, I'm still a fit person, but the source and the why behind my identity is so much deeper and meaningful. So if you're telling me, like, if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, well, I still serve a small business owner, I still serve entrepreneurs, or I still serve enter whatever your audience name is, that's true. I still identify as a fit person. I would still be your perfect buyer if you were trying to like, attract me into your gym or your services. But if you're not speaking to how my why and the source of my identity has changed, you've missed the boat. And that is what everyone has gone through.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yes, absolutely. And so this might be a loaded question, but let's say you are the gym owner. Okay? You're the gym owner and you have people here that just want to be thin. They want to, they want to look good. It's all vanity. So many of us been there. I have. And then they have you. So are these two different marketing messages for the same company? And is that okay? Because they still two. Both of you still exist. You're different, but maybe someone else isn't.

[Veronica Romney]

And this is why. Like, again, not to bring up politics, but this is where you'll see that scenario amplified at the highest level possible because a politician, whether locally or presidentially, has to attract one of the most diverse voter or buyer base possible. I want everybody to vote for me. But what's really interesting is in, in spite of the fact that they want to be attractive to all their messaging, it's almost like they're talking to a singular person. It's fascinating to watch. Like, I think of the Duck Dynasty guy, but like, I do, I, I, it's, it's really interesting to Me how, Like, they don't deviate from script. They are super crystal clear of where they stand and who they seek to serve. And even like, for example, if I'm the Longevity Gym customer and you're having a Longevity identity play as part of your primary marketing messaging, you're going to speak to me 100%. Like, I'm 100% locked in. But even former Veronica and her vanity would still align myself with that messaging. Maybe at 70%.

[Amy Porterfield]

Right. Okay, I hear you.

[Veronica Romney]

I recently, Amy, I was so sweaty and when I did this podcast interview, but I recently had Seth Godin on my podcast and I was freaking out.

[Amy Porterfield]

The legend.

[Veronica Romney]

No, no, I was total fangirling. It was bad. It was bad. Like, keep it cool. But the one thing that he said on the podcast I thought was so freaking brilliant was he was like, consistency. He even said consistency more than authenticity. It's a great clip. I was like, woo, controversial. But his whole thing was, it's up to us to be consistent. And so I would say that, like, yes, I understand that you would like to appeal to the Longevity Veronica at the gym and the Vanity Veronica at the gym, but where you dilute your messaging, you're going to dilute your impact for both of us.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, I'm so. I didn't know how you're going to answer that. I'm so glad you said it that way, because in my business, for this podcast, we want to attract the entrepreneur that's been in business for a few years or beyond making some money, but wants to elevate and optimize. And we want to talk about strategies that are beyond how to start an email list or how to start a website or whatever. And I've made that really clear with this new show. However, I am well aware that there are people listening right now who are still in a 9 to 5. They've got a side hustle and they want to get to that place. And I love if that's you. I love that you're here because you might not be able to implement everything that I'm teaching, but it's aspirational. You know what's coming and it gets you fired up. So I could see what you're saying. That one message might not be perfectly a fit, but they can get on board. They get 100% feel it.

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay. I love that.

[Veronica Romney]

I think what you're. I think it's fascinating what you're doing, and I'm such a proponent of what you're doing because who you seek to serve next, their Awareness of entrepreneurship is magnified. Like, I remember pre entrepreneur, I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. It's gonna be great.

[Amy Porterfield]

Right?

[Veronica Romney]

And then I get into, like, this is really hard. Why did I do this? Like, you know, it's your awareness change. Your. The. You realize the grass is greener. Is it greener or just a different grass? Like, you realize some things, like your bubble, your. The ignorance has popped. Right. But with that said, just because you as a brand, seek to align your message with an aspirational identity that might be, you know, a little bit further out of my reach, it doesn't mean that I, as a highly ambitious person, don't want to eventually get there.

[Amy Porterfield]

Exactly. And those are the people I want to attract. Highly ambitious entrepreneurs that are willing to do whatever it takes. So wherever you are in your journey, you're welcome. Okay. I love that. That's so valuable for me. Thank you for that. Okay, so I want to talk about how do we implement this on our teams? So let's say that we have a marketing manager, marketing director, cmo, whoever it is, how do we help them truly understand what identity marketing is, beyond reading your book, which we're going to highly recommend. But how do you train your team to do this in a way that they're not just, like, completing tasks, but they're actually driving growth with it?

[Veronica Romney]

Okay. Yeah.

[Amy Porterfield]

How does this look?

[Veronica Romney]

This is not the answer. You're going that you're.

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, no.

[Veronica Romney]

But it's good, I promise. Okay. So it's very difficult to empower anyone on your team at any level in doing something that they don't identify with.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

So it's so funny because I literally. Amy, got advised not to do this, but I'll be damned. So in the book, it's all marketing, marketing, marketing. And then, however, I had to write that final part four that was like, identity beyond marketing and sales, which is identity within teams, companies, and cultures. I can't tell you, as someone who has mentored so many marketers, helping them become rainmakers in some of my former programs and even CEOs becoming visionaries. Right. Like, I can't even tell you how many times some of the baddest marketers I've ever worked with don't look at themselves in the mirror. The way that it's so obvious to me, like, badass. Yes.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

Like, they still doubt, downplay their own identity. It's wild. I. And I. I also do corporate work. So, like, I will literally go and do a workshop, private workshop. For, like, Burger King or indeed or whatever. And I always ask the same question on the top of any private or public workshop that I do. I ask the room who literally have marketing in their job titles, and they report to the marketing department, and they are paid through the marketing department. I will ask the room, how many of you identify as a marketer. I just. I won't name who, but I just did it with a very big company, and less than 35% of the room raised their hand. And yet they were only there invited because they were part of the marketing department.

[Amy Porterfield]

Whoa.

[Veronica Romney]

What? What.

[Amy Porterfield]

What is that?

[Veronica Romney]

It's crazy. So in the back of the book, we talk about, like, identity within the organization is everything. And so, like, even when I in different jobs that I've had as chief of staff or just being a leader amongst departments or whatever, one of the things that I do is I try to bring identity to the group, especially if the group has gone through some stuff. This is happening right now everywhere. Like, my husband still works for corporations. He works for $100 million software company. Everyone's going through layoffs. You hear it in the news, like. And so everyone's kind of wrestling with, well, where am I in this company and who am I to this company? And, like, it's really interesting what's happening even in the 9 to 5 situation in their identity crisis. Right? So usually when I come into a leadership position, one of the things that I'll notice is I'll get a sentiment again, more listening than talking as a leader. Like, how are they feeling about their role themselves, their own identities? And, like, I will give teams identities. Like, I remember the way Rainmaker comes from our Slack Channel when I was chief of staff at Boss Babe.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

Because I was. I. Yeah, that marketing group had gone through so much, right. Just turn. And so I was like, well, how do I get everybody to, like, feel good and empowered again? And so I'm like, we're Rainmakers. We make it rain. And so we literally renamed the Slack channel from, like, marketing to rainmakers. And you'll see this with some of the biggest leadership groups. They'll call themselves Purple Unicorns, you know, zebras, tigers. Like, it's really fascinating even in the book. Some of the most devout Nike employees will literally tattoo the swish on their skin, and they call themselves Ekins, which is Nike spelled backwards.

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, okay.

[Veronica Romney]

Right. So, like, can you leverage identity in your marketing without having a team? Of course you can. But if you're a leader listening to this and you have a team, may I strongly encourage you to consider the identity of your team first so that they are the most empowered to do identity for your customers.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay. I feel like that's the most important part of your book. I can't even believe you were advised against it.

[Veronica Romney]

I was advised. Yeah. Stay away from that.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, That's. I can't wait for my team to listen to this. I can't wait. I really love a good name, so I can't wait till we figure out ours and maybe each department will have it. Have their own. Actually, this is a must if my team's listening. Let's get on it.

[Veronica Romney]

But especially for your podcast, your new pod. Like, I think about, like, call her Daddy and, like, the Daddy gang or the 92 percenters for the new heights. Even Kylie. Kelsey just started to name hers, and she's like, I changed the name. Like, it's just fascinating. We're watching this play out in real life. And so with your new podcast, I'm really excited for you guys to do this too.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yeah, we got to figure it out. Okay, so podcast listeners, DM me. What. What are we calling ourselves? What is this going to be? And if I choose. Choose yours. You get a prize. You get a prize.

[Veronica Romney]

I like it.

[Amy Porterfield]

So, dme, what. What are we calling ourselves over here? But that's fun. I love. I love that you brought that up. You also mentioned something earlier I didn't touch on yet, which is AI. So everything you're teaching us today. How do we use AI to, like, bring our identity marketing to life on our. In our company?

[Veronica Romney]

So I. Let me just. Let me just state where I stand on AI. I am a big fan of AI I use it every single day. Love it. It's not coming for my job, so. No, no, no, stop. Like, we don't have to fear it. We control the machine.

[Amy Porterfield]

Yes. Amen.

[Veronica Romney]

So that's where I personally stand as a marketer. I love AI. In fact, we give AI prompts throughout our. As one of the collaterals for our workshops, we're giving away so many AI prompts and so many different things. Right? So massive fan. Like, as much as I. I identify as a marketer, I'm not the best copywriter. That's where, like, AI is so, such a gift. Because not only in. Especially in part one, when you're sitting on top of a mountain of secret shopping findings, can AI make sense of it, then you can be like, well, AI, like, can you give me some creative ways to then, like, package that in an identity name? And it's like, ooh. And it comes up with some really. That you never would have thought of when you're giving deeper meaning and context to whatever listeners of the Amy Porterfield show end up calling themselves. Like, what's our slogan? What's our customer's transformation? What are the bursts? Like, that's where AI can take information and wow and delight and surprise you. So that especially if you're a solopreneur and you are the copywriter and the marketer and the social media manager and Alexa customer service, this is where AI can really benefit us tremendously. So I'm a massive proponent of AI.

[Amy Porterfield]

Do you think you would give me two to three AI prompts that the day your episode comes out, I can post on Instagram for people? Okay, cool.

[Veronica Romney]

I'm happy to give you all of. I have so many. We have so many resources. I'm happy to give you some.

[Amy Porterfield]

Ah, I would love that. Okay, so for those of you listening when this comes out, go to Instagram. I'm just at Amy Porterfield, and I'll have some prompts. What are you on Instagram?

[Veronica Romney]

Vivie.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, so I'm going to tag Veronica as well, and we're going to give you some prompts to get going with your identity marketing. So I love to make it actionable. So that's fantastic. Okay, good. So you're totally in support of AI. We can use it to move forward 100.

[Veronica Romney]

I did a private workshop for the University of Utah. This is one of my favorite stories because they're continuing education department, which is not main campus. This is like all the, you know, they teach people how to speak English for the first time. And they teach people who have discretionary income to go do photography in Thailand. Like, they literally told me when I walked in the door. We have eight programs. None of us can agree on one cohesive brand. And our buyers are ages 5 to 105. Good luck, sister. For two days, I'm like, whoa, thanks. Okay. But we did it with identity marketing, and it was really, really fun because. Because it was actually because one of the results of the AI prompts that was the breakthrough of breakthroughs, because nobody could agree. And then again, I won't spoil it because illegally, I can't until they, you know, formally announce it. It is so good. It's like, as good as Nike. Just do it. Good.

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, wow. Okay. When will it come out? When will we know?

[Veronica Romney]

Well, I have the case study that I can always share, but, like, they're working. Literally, they're updating all of their Marketing assets as we speak.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, cool, cool. Well, hopefully you're going to announce it on your ig, so then we'll all know. Okay. So I want to talk about something and this might be where we wrap up, but I think it's a cool place to do it. So it could be so easy to focus on what we need to do to grow our business. And I talk about this a lot. What is needed to scale, what is needed to grow, especially on this new podcast. We're going deep, but I love that I've heard you talk about what we need to let go of. So from everything that you've seen, what are like the biggest beliefs or habits or strategies that entrepreneurs are doing that actually are holding them back from actually stepping into identity marketing with their audience?

[Veronica Romney]

It's a really good question. Um, actually I learned this from when I worked with Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins. He had like a not to do list. It was one of my favorite exercises that he would do with his KBB initiative a couple years ago now at this point. But it's so true because I think, especially as female entrepreneurs, I think that we have more of a tendency to constantly be adding to our list and taking away from our list. So I think it's a fair question. Like if I, knowing what I know now and obviously making the contest that a lot of our marketing is so masculine and outcomes based messaging, that it's really like repelling more in this tight economy than it is inviting people to be curious about what we have to offer. I think the thing that I would love to see people put down and this is just, I'm just gonna say it, I am over the urgency and the scarcity and the fear mongering and like, I'm just kind of done with that. Like the fake webinar timers. It's interesting because I remember when I first got into online entrepreneurship, when I left corporate, all of that stuff was new and it was super effective because I'm like, wow. Yeah, I only got 15 minutes to act like, this is so fantastic. Watching my little boys respond to marketing like that. It's also amazing to watch it in their eyes because they're only 8 and 11 now. But fast forward, people aren't buying courses for the first time. A lot of people have already bought a ton of courses and they have a graveyard of courses. A lot of us have already gone through webinars. And so, like, unfortunately that lure of never having seen something is now gone. And I think that we as providers, especially us who've been doing this for a minute. I think we have to remember that, yes, there's always going to be new customers, but if our existing customers and our existing audience, even if they've never purchased from us, can't speak well of us because they see us doing some of these gimmicks that those, that if they didn't make money, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing, that's going to be a problem in the next iteration. I do think that we are going to see a weeding out as we pursue because it's just going to get harder. And so I just want those who are frustrated because they're like, man, I promise you, if you buy from me, I'm one of the good ones. I will really help you get the results. I'm not one of these ones that are just shinier and bigger and fancier. I get those type of tears quite a bit. I just want to, like, hold out. Hold out. As long as you remain consistent and don't, don't yield to the gimmicks, I promise it will pay out. I do.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay, so I'm going to be devil's advocate here because I'm a big fan of urgency and frequency. Why do I want to say frequency a lot on this episode? I said it earlier, too. It's on my mind. Urgency and scarcity, human brain or the way humans work, is that it's very common to wait till the very last minute to make a decision. Especially something that you might be a little bit nervous to do. It might be a little new. You're taking a risk. So if you're not going to. Now, I'm all about. I hate fake urgency, I hate the fake timers, all of that. But I do like urgency and scarcity. So I believe it works. Is there any way to do it? Or is there a substitute for it? Because if here's the crazy thing. If I don't say, okay, if you don't buy by this time, you're going to miss out on that bonus. And I know, okay, this is the thing, V. I know in my gut I could get them results. I know my programs are good. So I'm coming from a place of full integrity. You need this. I know you need this. And so I'm going to give you this special bonus. It's going away in 48 hours. You're going to miss out. So if you don't like those tactics, what do you replace them with? Because people will sit and not make a decision.

[Veronica Romney]

Yes. Okay, couple Things I'm really passionate. I got a couple of things. And by the way, I love this.

[Amy Porterfield]

Me too. Me too.

[Veronica Romney]

Let us, let us as two smart, intelligent human beings, let us go through this and what I call like a mental ping pong. I'm going to ping to your pong. All right. Let's ping to the pong.

[Amy Porterfield]

Let's go.

[Veronica Romney]

Urgency and scarcity is forever ingredients that absolutely do work. I'm not, there's no behavioral scientists will back that up. This is not a thing for me. Right. So yes, it does work and you are correct. Like I went to the Taylor Swift concert in Toronto. Why did I go to Toronto? Because it was right at the end. Like this is it. She only has Toronto and Vancouver. I'm one of the last people to go away. I'm going to sell a spleen. I'm doing it. I'm doing it right. And we did, me and my friend, we went and it was phenomenal. And I know another friend who literally got on a plane Saturday, the day of the concert with her and her daughter and stood outside the concert is now starting and grabbed last minute tickets and like made that decision. So are there these last minute humans that just, gosh, just lovingly need the tap to go 100% okay.

[Amy Porterfield]

I love that. Loving the tap.

[Veronica Romney]

Yes, 100%.

[Amy Porterfield]

Okay.

[Veronica Romney]

But I, there's a couple of things we need to differentiate. Is it true urgency and scarcity or is it fabricated and false?

[Amy Porterfield]

Is it true if I'm closing the cart for an entire year, does that, is that true to you? Like if I really am.

[Veronica Romney]

Right. And that's, that's the thing with, with you because. Well, especially with providers like yourself, like you have a reputation for like actually saying what it is that you're. You were going to do, right? So like doing what you said. So. But that doesn't always like we. How many providers that you and I can count that don't they say it. But then they'll get you in the next door if they really want it. Like, you know what I mean? So, so that's. Unfortunately it's because of those humans that make people question when we say it.

[Amy Porterfield]

So let's, I can get on board with that.

[Veronica Romney]

Let's be fair with that. Right? So that's why I think buyer discernment and buyer distrust is number one sentiment in society right now. Literally people will filter lowest reviews before highest reviews. When I go to Airbnb or restaurants, I will literally filter lowest reviews to see the real stuff. Because I call to question what's actually being said in the five stars. That's a fact. So if you have real urgency and scarcity, like using Taylor Swift, like she's really only going to be in Toronto for three nights like that. Like it is what it is. She really is ending her tour. She really is doing these things. Like that is true. Or the comedian is really like, Nate Berghesi is really coming to, you know, North Carolina on this date.

[Amy Porterfield]

Don't get me started on Nate. Love him.

[Veronica Romney]

We're gonna go see him later.

[Amy Porterfield]

Oh, he's the best in concert.

[Veronica Romney]

So excited.

[Amy Porterfield]

Or in person.

[Veronica Romney]

Like, but is that true that this is a time sensitive, time based situation? And I, and I'm like, hey, like, I really need you to understand. Like this is. Yes, those are true things. And everybody can get behind now with that said. And I don't, I don't hear about this and maybe it's just because it's like too trade secret. Y. But. And I can't disclose but like being who but being behind the scenes of so many brands myself and having worked with so many humans and so many bigger personalities. When you analyze the buyers who bought from you not in that urgency and scarcity window compared to the buyers who bought in the last hour, 24 hours, whatever, argue with me that they're different, that they're not different.

[Amy Porterfield]

Well, I just have proof. And so I might be coming from a different place, but I actually have one specific story and it's only one. One of my best students ever, Dineira. She's my caramel candy apple queen. She told me, amy, I bought like the last five minutes. I was too scared, too freaked out. First launch, $60,000. So I'm just, I hear stories like that and I'm a believer. But you're saying, and I'd be willing to look into this, you're saying those that bought without the urgency, they just in their heart, I want it. They're ready. They could be navigating, let's say through my courses differently than last minute. I'm so scared. I don't know. What if this never works? Fine, I'm just going to.

[Veronica Romney]

Here's what I'm saying.

[Amy Porterfield]

And this is, I could maybe get behind this.

[Veronica Romney]

This is where data wins the tale. I have seen. I've been privy to subset of data that was very conclusive that showed that those that made the decisions in the fear of missing out in the urgency and the scarcity of the final 10 spots left, 10 hours left in those moments versus those that bought without that because they Were primed, ready to go. We saw the most refunds request and I would say self sabotage behavior.

[Amy Porterfield]

Interesting.

[Veronica Romney]

Okay, again, this is where it gets, this is where data gets to tell us the tale. Because will there be the outliers? For sure. I love that story. And you're such a phenomenal provider that just because of one you'll risk it. And I think that's really like I hear, I see your heart and I hear what you're saying. But one of my cautions for newer business owners is if the bulk of your new customers and you're still not an established brand is buying from you in those windows of fear, urgency and scarcity, you're setting these brand new buyers to your business and brand for buyer's remorse which then ends up hurting you in customer lifetime value because then they're not going to tell other people to buy from you because they're still second guessing their purchase. So that's where I just get more protective of newer people whose brands are not don't have the flexibility fair.

[Amy Porterfield]

In our company we have four values and one of them is data into impact. And so I just wrote a note, I want to do this research, I want to find out those that actually went through the program did not return early. That's another thing. If they're asking for a return, when did they buy? I want to map it out. And this could be a really great podcast episode. One thing we're seeing, V, this is so fascinating with course creators is that for years, I mean for 14 years of me doing this, cart close was our biggest day. We would see maybe like 50% of all sales come in at cart close. Anyone who's launched courses for a while, you know the beauty of a cart close, we are now seeing that dramatically decline where we're now seeing maybe 20, 25% of sales come in on cart close day. Which in my opinion means that the marketing is changing for sure and that people are less triggered by, by now it's going away because of exactly what you said, I think is it really? Can I really trust you? And so people that are not honest online are screwing me because yeah, mine really is going away. But it doesn't matter if I'm honest or not. It all is effective.

[Veronica Romney]

Yeah, people are desensitized, right? Just like we get desensitized to violence in movies. If we've all we see is just violence in movies or the F word. Like we just get, I mean the movie that just won best picture had over 400 plus F bombs like don't get me started.

[Amy Porterfield]

That movie was so chaotic. What was it called? Or Nora. I had to pause the movie because it was the most chaotic movie I've ever seen in my nervous system. Couldn't handle it.

[Veronica Romney]

So it's interesting. Yes. So people are desensitized to shock and awe in almost every quadrant, whether it's entertainment in our marketing, messaging. That's what I'm saying. The buyer is smarter and they're discerning is kind. They are distrusting as hell. Like they are. We are distrusting at this point. And so like knowing that that buyer sentiment and the emotional palette of where they're starting, should we not then adjust our marketing to. And just like, hey, I know you don't trust. Like, I want to see more marketers and more providers go, hey, I know you don't trust me. And I. Here, let me validate you. I don't blame you. You bought the course that was supposed to change your life for two grand on a credit card. Didn't do it. You did this. Can we just level? And I think that's the thing. Like when the bigger and I, and I. I'm a victim to this. I've been doing it for a really long time. And like when you have a public Persona of any size like you do, you try to make sure that you're still attractive and also like available for all. But like I think at this moment, what people really appreciate is just someone bloody leveling with them. Like, I'm gonna level with you. I know that you've been screwed. I know that you bought things with the highest hopes and then your family second guessing why you did it and they would like to remind you that you bought that thing that didn't work out. And now you're asking them if they could support you on this. I see it. I get it. Like just having. If you were in a con, if we were having a conversation at dinner, we talk like this. But we don't do that in our, in our social media channels because we yield off.

[Amy Porterfield]

So true. And I'm all about it. Just call it out. I think I, I subscribe to that. I love it. Let's do it more because we're in a trust recession and it's. It is time to start building that trust one company at a time. So I'm on board, 100%. Veronica. This was a great conversation. I was deep into it. I'm like, I'm learning here. I feel like I just took a college course. So where can every first of all what's the name of your book?

[Veronica Romney]

Identity marketing. Identity marketing. Book.com is where they can go easy.

[Amy Porterfield]

Identity marketing. Book.com. grab it for yourself and for those on your team, if you come up with different names, identities for internally, we want to hear dm, both of us on Instagram. We'll make sure that the day this episode comes out, we've got some prompts for you. So meet me over on Instagram. But thank you so very much for being here. This is a fantastic, valuable conversation.

[Veronica Romney]

You are, like, the loveliest. So thank you for having me.

[Amy Porterfield]

Thank you, my friend. Take care.