The Ancients: Woolly Mammoths

Podcast: The Ancients (History Hit)
Host: Tristan Hughes
Guests: Professor Adrian Lister (Natural History Museum), Professor David Meltzer (Southern Methodist University)
Release Date: February 2, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode launches The Ancients’ mini-series on the Ice Age, focusing in-depth on the woolly mammoth—an icon of prehistoric megafauna. Host Tristan Hughes is joined first by Professor Adrian Lister, who explores the woolly mammoth’s origins, biological adaptations, and Ice Age ecosystem. Then, Professor David Meltzer discusses the mammoth’s history in North America, human-mammoth interactions, extinction theories, and recent breakthroughs in ancient DNA research.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evolution, Adaptations, and Physiology of the Woolly Mammoth

Featuring: Professor Adrian Lister
[04:26–33:10]

• Origins in the Elephant Family:

  • Mammoths arose in Africa 5–7 million years ago, diverging from the same family as modern elephants ([06:00]).
  • Mammoths began as tropical species and only later adapted to the cold of the Ice Age, with evolutionary steps that mirrored the branching "bush" of human evolution ([08:37–10:03]).
  • “It is more like a branching bush with, you know, less successful species dying out. ... You end up with the most strongly adapted species kind of at the top.” —Lister [10:03]

• Major Adaptations for Cold Climates:

  • Short tails and small ears minimized heat loss and prevented frostbite, a contrast to modern elephants ([11:49–13:50]).
  • "The ear and the tail are part of the same story of reducing the area of small, thin organs outside the body. In a cold environment, you don’t want to lose heat through them..." —Lister [13:50]
  • Thick fur (outer hairs up to 1 meter, much thicker than a human strand), underlying “underwool,” and a substantial fat layer provided insulation ([20:46–21:48]).
  • Cave art (Lascaux, Chauvet) consistently depicts sloped-back mammoths with high shoulder humps ([19:19–20:46]).

• Specialized Tusk and Teeth Structure:

  • Spiral-shaped tusks, up to 11 feet, used for fighting and display ([14:40–15:56]).
  • Mammoths had high-crowned molars to withstand the abrasion from a mostly grass diet, often eating 18–20 hours per day to intake enough nutrients ([17:42–18:23]).

• Molecular and Coloration Insights:

  • Mammoth hemoglobin was uniquely adapted to work at low temperatures (as low as 5°C), enabling oxygen delivery to extremities ([21:48–24:07]).
  • “We’re learning about these animals now goes beyond what traditional study of bones and even soft tissues to the molecular level.” —Lister [24:07]
  • DNA evidence points to a chocolate-brown fur color, requiring a correction to the popular image of orange mammoths ([24:45–25:58]).

• Range, Numbers, and Social Life:

  • At their height, woolly mammoths roamed from Western Europe to North America, via land bridges, possibly exceeding 10 million individuals ([31:11–32:44]).
  • Tusks growth rings (annual), much like trees, suggest lifespans similar to modern elephants (up to 60–70 years, with confirmed examples of at least 47 years) ([29:47–30:59]).

2. The Mammoth in North America and Human Interactions

Featuring: Professor David Meltzer
[34:03–67:21]

• Mammoths as "Charismatic" and "Keystone" Megafauna:

  • “You can't stop thinking about the damn things. They're so big, they're so interesting and, and they're so gone.” —Meltzer [34:29]
  • Mammoths (and other proboscideans) profoundly shaped ecosystems, altering plant succession, nutrient cycles, and habitats ([36:21–38:15]).

• The Archaeological Record:

  • In addition to bones and tusks, freeze-dried mammoth carcasses, coprolites (fossilized dung), and ancient DNA reveal their movements and extinction processes ([38:15–40:22]).
  • “One time professor of mine ... said Siberian fur trappers would feed mammoth meat to their dogs just because it was a handy source of protein for their animals. Would I want a mammoth steak that had been sort of freeze dried for 30,000 years? I'd try it. Whether I like it is a different issue.” —Meltzer [39:02]

• Beringia and the ‘Mammoth Steppe’:

  • Mammoth territory stretched from Atlantic Europe throughout Asia and across the Bering land bridge to the Americas, forming a continuous steppe dominated by grazing megafauna ([41:21]).
  • “They call it the mammoth steppe ... because it was the most prominent animal in the landscape.” —Meltzer [41:21]

• Arrival and Expansion in the Americas:

  • Mammoths moved south of the Arctic into North America around 1.35 million years ago ([42:10]).
  • Two main mammoth species in the Americas: woolly mammoths in the north, Columbian mammoths further south ([45:03–45:16]).

• Evidence of Human-Mammoth Interaction:

  • Direct hunting was rare; most evidence points to scavenging already-dead mammoths, particularly near water sources (“low risk hunting”) ([45:43–48:51]).
  • Sites like the Colby site (Wyoming) show possible caching of mammoth meat for later use ([53:15–55:59]).
  • “Hunter-gatherers ... like to reduce the risk of coming home empty handed, and the other is reducing the risk of coming home dead. And so having an elephant die for you. Very convenient.” —Meltzer [48:56]

• Extinction Debates – Climate or Humans?:

  • Over 38 genera (not just mammoth) disappear at the end of the Pleistocene; causes are complex: climate, shrinking suitable habitat, and possible but limited human impact ([56:20–58:33]).
  • “It’s been challenging in part because for so many years, we didn’t have the tools. ... With ancient DNA ... we’re finally in a position to get past the impasse that has prevented us from really getting a good handle on the why question and linking cause and effect.” —Meltzer [58:33–61:03]

• Survival in Arctic Enclaves:

  • Some mammoth populations survived until as late as 4,000 years ago in northern Siberia, even as humans were present; climate-driven vegetation changes, not hunting, were key factors ([62:18–65:46]).
  • “There was a terrible, terrible movie about mammoths building the pyramids ... In every terrible movie, maybe there’s just a little grain, a little nugget of truth that mammoths were around at the time the pyramids were being built.” —Meltzer [65:30]

• Could We Bring Mammoths Back?

  • Genetic engineering may allow limited hybridization with Asian elephants, but a true revival of the woolly mammoth is impossible: “No, I mean, we don’t have living cells. We can’t clone them. ... Sorry to disappoint your listeners, but they’re not coming back. They're gone and they ain't coming back.” —Meltzer [66:12]

Notable Quotes and Moments

• The beauty of the mammoth’s adaptation:
  • “The hemoglobin of the mammoth was adapted to be able to [carry oxygen] even in virtually zero temperatures.” —Lister [23:38]
• On human-mammoth encounters:
  • “It must have really been something to come around the corner and see one of these sort of aircraft carriers of the animal kingdom lumbering by. I mean, what a sight.” —Meltzer [35:09]
• The humbling reality of extinction:
  • “Mammoths were simply one of over three dozen animals that go extinct at the end of the Pleistocene ... It's not entirely clear which way are the causal arrows pointing... in my view, more likely, are we looking at climatic and environmental change playing a role?” —Meltzer [45:43–47:10]
• On frozen mammoth meat:
  • “Would I want a mammoth steak that had been sort of freeze dried for 30,000 years? I'd try it. Whether I like it is a different issue.” —Meltzer [39:02]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:19] Introduction to the woolly mammoth and episode scope
• [04:29–33:10] Prof. Adrian Lister: Evolution, adaptations, spread, and biology
• [29:47] Aging mammoths via tusk growth rings
• [31:11] Mammoth population and range at their peak
• [34:03–67:21] Prof. David Meltzer: Mammoths in North America, human interaction, and extinction
• [40:43] Beringia and the mammoth steppe
• [42:10] Mammoth arrival in North America
• [45:43] Human hunting vs. climate factors in extinction
• [53:15] Butchering and using mammoth carcasses
• [56:20] Extinction patterns and the complexity of causes
• [62:18] Ancient DNA and survival in Arctic enclaves
• [65:55] Will mammoths ever come back?
• [66:51] “First Peoples in a New World” – Prof. Meltzer’s book recommendation

Summary Takeaways

Woolly mammoths, iconic for their size and adaptation to Ice Age climates, were part of a rich, branching family history and an ancient ecosystem fundamentally different from today's. Their biological innovations—thick fur, special hemoglobin, unique teeth and tusks—enabled them to thrive in harsh environments.

Coexisting with early humans, mammoths were sometimes hunted but more often scavenged; their final extinction was mostly driven by rapid climate and habitat change rather than over-hunting. Ancient DNA revolutionizes our understanding of these extinctions and reveals that populations survived into the relatively recent past in isolated Arctic enclaves.

Despite modern fascination and sci-fi hopes, true “de-extinction” is impossible. The mammoth’s story is ultimately about adaptation, environmental fragility, and the constant interplay between people and their changing world.

Next up in the series: Ice Age Australia—killer wombats, giant kangaroos, and more megafauna legends.