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- [00:00]
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- [01:30]
Podcast Host (Ancients)
Hey guys, I hope you're doing well. Welcome to this special episode of the Ancients, where once again, as we do every so often, we're out in the field. We are in Norfolk today exploring the story of Boudicca's tribe, the Acani. What do we know about these people both before Boudicca's revolt and afterwards after the Romans defeated Boudicca? It's a really interesting story that archaeology is helping us learn so much more about now. A quick note from me before we get into it. I would usually say iceni. I must admit that's what I've said in the past. However, the experts out there, who we interviewed and all the team out there, they say ekeni. So to avoid making this episode more confusing than it needs to be, we are going to be saying Ikeni throughout when talking about this tribe. But at the end of the day, at least in my opinion, tomato, tomato. You say it however you'd like we're going a cany today. I hope you enjoy.
- [02:24]
Podcast Narrator / Host
Let's go. In the rolling mists of ancient Norfolk, where the river Tass threads between green fields and reedy marshes, stood Venta Ice Norum, the market town and heart of the Iceni tribe. Imagine a morning by the river in the first centuries after Rome's conquest. The settlement is alive with clatter, chatter and the earthy perfume of livestock, pottery and freshly baked bread. Horses nibble on dew wet grass, watched by children whose faces are streaked with dirt and laughter. This was daily life for the Achania Deventer Icanorum, a people long rooted in these lowlands. The Achenae had occupied these lands since before the shadow of Rome fell upon Britain. They traced descent from Iron Age Britons who had built great roundhouses and eked a fierce independence from earth and animal. For centuries. Their ancestry was carried in their bronze armorings and in the famous Nettersham hoard, jewelry masterpieces of spiralled gold and silver. These treasures glimmered on the necks and arms of Iceni women and chieftains alike. The mighty Queen Boudicca may herself have worn such finery before her fateful revolt. Though Rome's legions crushed the Achane in the bitter aftermath of Boudicca's rebellion in 60 and 61 AD, the tribe endured, battered but not obliterated. Venta Icenorum developed in the changing world that emerged after the Boudican revolt. It was a symbol of the ruling Roman power, but one that was inhabited by the Iceni and that reflected their interests and aspirations as well as those of Rome. The town name and all bore witness to its inhabitants history. The Achanes memory lived on in the very map of Roman power. Let me introduce William Bowden, professor of Roman archaeology at the University of Nottingham, who leads the Quaestor Roman Project.
- [04:55]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, it is such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me to the site.
- [04:59]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
A pleasure to have you.
- [05:00]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And it is quite an extensive operation, isn't it? So where are we standing if we go back almost 2,000 years ago?
- [05:08]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Well, almost 2,000 years ago we would have been just inside the boundaries of the Roman town of ventricinorum in the SEC we're talking about the 2nd century AD. Really? The name means the market of the Achene. And when you visit the Roman town today, which stands just to the south of Norwich, you'll see an area, a walled area. The city walls are perhaps the most visible part of the site. But what you see is actually only quite a small part of the Roman town. And so where we are now is quite a long. We're about 300 meters to the northeast of the city site that people visit as coastal Roman town. But actually, although it feels like we're in a random field, we're actually still within the boundaries of the town as it was in the second century.
- [06:03]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And you're certainly still digging some amazing things up. I mean, how long have you been doing archaeological work here? How long has the Caesta Roman Project been going on?
- [06:11]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Well, I started working here in 2006, and we started doing geophysical survey at the main town site and followed that up with seasons of excavation from about 2009 onwards. But we always wanted to have it as a. I started it as a university project, but I always wanted to have a really strong community element to what we were doing here. So we set up this, the charity Caesta Roman project in 2009 and used that to support community and volunteer activity in archaeology. And now it's very much been taken over by the community. The community manage the project, they do most of the work. And so our members really lead the activity here.
- [07:07]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
This is also an amazing site, isn't it? Because sometimes we get into this bipolar world of either a site is Iron Age pre Roman or it's Roman in Britain. But this site allows you to show how much more permeable it was. You get to see the Iron Age and Roman stuff together at this site.
- [07:26]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
That's right. And I think that's one of the. It's one of the key things that we have at this site. That kind of binary opposition between, you know, the Romans and native Iron Age people is, I think, a. A big problem actually, in how people still conceptualize the Roman period in Britain. Because I think when people think about the Romans, they think about, you know, a bunch of soldiers coming over from Italy doing Roman stuff and then. And everyone else goes away making their roads and aqueducts. Making roads and aqueducts, you know, drinking wine, wearing togas or whatever. And actually, as we know, most of the people living in Britain at that time are the descendants of the Iron Age population. You've perhaps got an immigrant population of maybe 5%, perhaps a little higher in cities, but the people living in this area are still the Aceni.
- [08:28]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So my next question was going to be how do we pronounce the name? But you said it there. So it's Iceni, not Iceni, is it?
- [08:35]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, that's right. It always used to be, you know, Boadicea and the Iceni. But the correct pronunciation, according to the people who study ancient Celtic languages is Boudicca and the Icene. Boadicea arrives effectively from a medieval typo, a slight miscopying of Tacitus and that's where Boadicea comes from. And the name becomes tremendously popular, particularly from the Victorian period. But yeah, it's Boudicca and the Echene.
- [09:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So if we focus on the Echene before the Roman takeover, let's say before the Boudican revolt. First of all, this always feels a tricky question to ask, but do we have any idea when the people here start labeling themselves as Iceni, if they even ever did?
- [09:27]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
So yeah, that's a really good question. And the obviously all the names that we have for peoples in pre Roman Britain come from Roman sources. And so we've got Roman sources, particularly Caesar, talking about describing the sort of ethnic makeup, if you like, of Britain and they do it from a very particular point of view. So we certainly have coins in the very late Iron Age. So after, really after the period of Caesar's of contact with the Romans, we have coins with the term Echen on which people tend to think probably is referring to the Achena. But these sorts of labels, it's a really interesting aspect with, when labels applied by others almost start to become also modes of self identification, people take on those labels as well. So I think paradoxically it may have been the Romans christening or sort of labeling this region as the Acheni that perhaps may have given people more of a sense of a cohesive identity that they might not have had before that. So I do think it's a two.
- [10:49]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Way process and just a bit of context. So Julius Caesar, 55, 54 BC, his two invasions of Britain and that early contact. And has the archaeology here revealed much about the nature of the Iceni settlement that was here before the Romans takeover? Do we know much about that?
- [11:07]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
In this particular site we don't actually have much in the way of actual settlement evidence. What we have is a sort of halo, if you like, around the site of Iron Age pottery, metalwork and coins. Generally in the territory of the Acaine, which seems to be current Norfolk and bits of Cambridgeshire and Suffolk, the general settlement pattern seems to be fairly small enclosed settlements with small groups of round houses. We don't really have the sense of large central places that we have at places like St Albans, Colchester, Silchester, these big so called Oppida where they're almost sort of proto towns. People argue about, people argue about that sort of, that sort of terminology, but certainly there Are groups coalescing and craft specialisations and large systems of defences. There's not so much of that in the territory of the Iceni. There's some interesting, quite large monuments. But the jury is still out, really, on whether the equivalents of those sorts of oppida really existed in this area.
- [12:34]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So should we be thinking that most ecenae groups were living in smallish settlements, you know, with a few round houses? They're farmers, they're living off the land. Maybe extended family groups as well?
- [12:45]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, I think that's. I think that's right. That's certainly what the sort of limited evidence of Ekeni settlement is, you know, is telling us. Telling us. So I think we can envisage families, perhaps extended kin groups coming together, perhaps in times of conflict. One of the best sources for the structure, the social structure of the Iceni is the coin evidence. The Iceni are making coins really in the sort of 1st century BC into the 1st century AD, so quite late in their history. But what we're seeing is that there are several different centres minting coins at the same time. So the idea of a sort of single king or single queen of the acne is not reflected in the coin evidence. What we've probably got are a range of different groups and as I say, at least four or five of them are minting coins at any one time. So we can imagine perhaps several important groups or leaders.
- [13:53]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
But do we think. I mean, because I immediately think of the Boudican revolt and the figure of Boudicca and her husband Prasutagus.
- [14:00]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Or.
- [14:00]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Prasutagus.
- [14:01]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Prasutagus.
- [14:03]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [14:04]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
As you like, really.
- [14:05]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
But the Romans labeled him almost as like the king.
- [14:08]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
So do we get.
- [14:09]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Could there potentially have been a hierarchy of chieftains as well? Or any idea around that?
- [14:14]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
There could have been. We certainly don't see. See that in the. We certainly don't see that really in the archaeology. And I think the importance of Prasutagus and. And Boudicca is perhaps more to do with the. The Roman narrative of the. Of the revolt, rather than the actual situation as it might have been on the ground.
- [14:37]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
They're the big figures for the great narrative story of how they overcome this massive.
- [14:41]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Absolutely, yes.
- [14:43]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
I must also ask, before we go post Boudicca, Ikeni, another amazing part of the Ikeni story, which is the beautiful treasures, the art that has survived from Ikenna lands, like those beautiful talks, isn't it? And other works of art. Talk to us about these beautiful works of Acanna art because they are stunning.
- [15:05]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, I mean, one of the amazing things that we do get is in this region are some of the extraordinary treasures, particularly the Snetisham torks, which are these wonderful huge gold objects.
- [15:17]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
They're very heavy, aren't they?
- [15:18]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
They're very, very heavy. There's a lot of metal in those and they're being put into the ground for particular, particular, possibly ritual reasons. But it's something that I think is a characteristic of the Ikene. Probably power and status is reflected in portable wealth and also probably in things like livestock, large herds and this sort of thing. And I think that's something that we actually see carrying on into the Roman period. I think part of how the Acheni view wealth and style status is reflected subsequently in how they respond to the new material coming in from the rest of the Roman world.
- [16:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Can we say that they are a warrior society, a warrior culture?
- [16:16]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
I think I would say no more so than any other Iron Age people. I mean, they certainly revolt first against Rome, apparently, on the grounds, you know, they are. Their weapons are removed. And this is the first, you know, the first revolt.
- [16:32]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
This is pre Boudicca, isn't it?
- [16:33]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
This is another one. This is pre Boudicca. And yeah, we know that it's a very equine focused society. There's a lot of horses, a lot of the metalwork is about decorated, you know, horse decoration and also chariot fitments. So the idea of the acania and chariots is at least reflected to some extent in the archaeology.
- [16:56]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And you see that elsewhere as well, don't you? The recently unearthed Melzenby hoard and the like, the amount of beautiful chariot gear there. I'd also like to ask a bit about Iceni death and burial and religion, because I know in other Iron Age groups a lot of the information about the people themselves comes from burials and how they were buried and so on. Do we know much about that with. In regards to the Yakni?
- [17:20]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah. It's a real problem in that we have very little in the way of burial from the Iron Age. I mean, the numbers might have gone up now, but I think for the entirety of the sort of 800 year history of Iron Age Norfolk, we've probably got around 100 individuals. So what's happening is that they are certainly disposing of the dead in a way that is not leaving much in the way of archaeological traces. Whether that is excarnation, sort of laying the bodies out to nature or to wild animals, we don't really know. But whatever they're doing, we're not really finding it.
- [18:03]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So we get to the big year of 60 or 61.
- [18:08]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Is it 60, 60, 61. It's debated. The debate sort of ranges around how long the events depicted in the revolt should have taken, how long it gets people to go from one part of the country to another. So the revolt sort of gets rather telescoped in the sources, but some people would argue it goes on longer.
- [18:33]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And can you explain briefly, we've done whole podcast episodes on Boudicca's revolution and the battles, but why this revolt is so important and intertwined with the story of the Achenae and what happens to them?
- [18:45]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, I mean, a lot of the time we see the Iceni through the lens of the Budokan Revolt, this famous episode when the Achenae under Boudicca revolt against Rome burning Colchester, London, St. Albans, before apparently being defeated at an unknown location, so called Watling street, the so called Battle of Watling street, which is a whole other wormhole that we probably won't go down right now.
- [19:18]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
But what are the consequences of the failed revolt? Because isn't it. I know Romans do exaggerate it in the sources. Over 100,000 people, presumably lots from the area of the Achaena. But what are the consequences for the Aceni people being the losers of this revolt?
- [19:35]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, this is a really tricky question. We have the sources which tell us of huge casualty numbers. I would say that is a very, very typical thing of Roman battle descriptions. The victory against overwhelming odds with very minimal casualties on the Roman side and huge casualties is. It's a really. It's a standard part of what Roman audiences would expect from a battle narrative. We also have Tacitus telling us that, you know, following the revolt, there was retribution against the Ice. They were, you know, the. The harried with fire and sword, and that the Iceni suffered from famine because they had failed to plant their crops before the. Before the revolt. Now, I would say that none of this is really reflected archaeologically, the aftermath of the revolt, the effect of the revolt. I would go so far as to say if we didn't have those textual sources, we would not see the effect of the revolt in the territory of the academic. It is not archaeologically visible.
- [20:49]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So it is not showing at a site like this that there was severe stress on crops or famine or anything at that time. That's amazing.
- [20:56]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
No, there's very little in the way of a Roman military presence in the territory of the Acania after the revolt. And in terms of material culture, the sorts of things that the Achena are wearing and where they are, we see enormous continuity. There is no sign of a great sort of discontinuity in the area following the revolt.
- [21:26]
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- [21:30]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
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- [21:33]
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- [21:37]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
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- [21:38]
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- [21:45]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Wait, no subscription?
- [21:46]
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- [21:56]
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- [22:26]
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- [22:57]
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- [23:38]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
So.
- [23:38]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
What does the archaeology show? What happens in this area of Britain in those decades after the Budokan revolt? What seems to happen to the Aceni?
- [23:47]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Well, as far as we can tell, they carry on and a lot of the things that we see in the pre Roman period. So an interest in portable material culture, a lack of interest in imported Materials from other parts of the Roman world. We see that carrying on into the Roman period before the revolt, the Iceni are picking and choosing the aspects of the Roman world that they're interested in. So coins coming from the Roman world. Absolutely. The Achena will have those wine as well. Wine lessons, though the Aceni aren't really into. We don't get much in the way of consumption of wine or olive oil actually at this site. And whereas other places like the Oppida at St Albans, Colchester, Silchester, those are people who are sort of really fully engaging with the Roman world as it exists in Gaul. So it's importing wine, shiny red pottery, this sort of thing, that kind of engagement with the Roman world we don't really see in the pre Roman period. And so in many ways it's not surprising that we don't get very much of it in the post revolt period at Venterae Cinorum. So the town which is the only major town in the territory of the Akanian, it seems to be their sort of regional capital, founded in the post revolt period principally for the collection of tax, because that's what the Romans were ultimately interested in. That town is quite small. It's one of the smallest regional capitals in Roman Britain. Its Forum is one of the smallest in Roman Britain. And for a long time it was thought that this is because the Iceni are impoverished after the Budokan revolt. They have an impoverished local elite who cannot afford to put up big buildings and this sort of thing. Whereas when we sort of get under the surface of that, to my mind, it's actually not that they couldn't afford it, but they simply weren't very interested in doing those sorts of. In creating that sort of urban environment.
- [26:09]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Do the Romans still see this part? Part of Britain is very much on the periphery. It's in the east far northeast, you know, in the. In East Anglia. Do you think there's just not much interest in building a lot of Roman towns in the area, even after the Buddhican revolt.
- [26:24]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
It's an interesting aspect, this idea of, you know, it being on the edge, you know, in the east, a long way away. And I think to some extent that's a, that's a modern, a modern conception of, of Norfolk. And for a long time I sort of fell into that trap. I think of thinking about, you know, what's going on in Norfolk, thinking about what's going on at Venta in relation to what's going on in the southeast in London and Colchester, but actually I think for Much of the Roman period, the important focus for Venter is looking eastwards towards the North Sea, towards the Wash, towards maritime connections ultimately going across to the, in the late Roman period, certainly going across to the Rhineland and up to the, up to the northern frontiers.
- [27:15]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So what is your research here? What has it revealed actually about you know, the topography, the climate that was this area of Britain back in, in the first, second, third centuries A.D. certainly.
- [27:25]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
The landscape around here was quite different. The riverine system of Norfolk was much more open. We have this so called great estuary whereby the sea I suppose came much the Yarmouth sandbar didn't really didn't exist. So Great Yarmouth is not there and you could sail large vessels sort of much further into Norfolk that silts up really in the post Roman period period and becomes peat deposits which are then subsequently quarried out and that's what creates Norfolk Broads. So the Norfolk Broads are a sort of relic of this estuary system but largely a result of peat quarry. But we are in an area which is much more open to the sea. Our work here suggests that you certainly couldn't sail your ocean going vessel as far as Venterijk in Orem. It's on the river, it's on the river Taz but probably good to being transshipped further upriver and then possibly moved down to Caister on small flat bottomed vessels. But it's definitely I think a landscape which is looking out towards the sea. And as I say we certainly really see that in the late Roman period.
- [28:45]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Does that.
- [28:45]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Oh, because I was going to ask if that feels unusual then as a position for the Romans to build their only kind of Roman looking town in this region that it is not right next to a navigable river which normally seems one of the biggest priorities on their list when looking for a new place to found a town.
- [29:02]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, I think it's perhaps the fundamental thing about Venterreichenorum is it's in the wrong place. A more obvious place for a town is where present day Norwich. It does have better riverine communications and that's almost certainly why Caestus stops or Venter Icinorum stops being a political center in the mid Saxon period. And it's why the Roman town is now an open field with sheep in it which gives us the chance to investigate it as we can. But the reason for the town being here is I think something that we've puzzled over for since the project started and I think it really reflects what was here before. We're now fairly certain that there is an iron Age cult centre not underneath the present Roman town, but at a large temple site fairly, fairly close by. And I think that is why the town is founded here, because it was an important place for the Acaenae.
- [30:09]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So the Romans are basically, even though they're not building towns everywhere, they're just doing it here, but they're building it in a place that they know is important to the Aceni people. And so is it effectively the Romans showing their overlordship, their supremacy, that they've, they're putting their mark, they're stamping their authority on this important area of the Acani?
- [30:29]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Potentially, I'm always a little bit worried, wary of the Roman boot founding towns as a sort of ideological statement. I mean, certainly that happened, but I think the fact the town is founded adjacent to this cult site rather than on top of it, and the major cult site clearly continues in the Roman period, is monumentalized in the Roman period, and becomes clearly continues as a major cult centre in the Roman period. So I think it is less of the Roman boot than perhaps a pragmatic acknowledgement that this is a place of power for the Acheni, and so it's a sensible place to have a Center.
- [31:22]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So IKenny believes the archaeological suggests from that site nearby certainly do seem to continue into the Roman period. Do they?
- [31:29]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Absolutely. And I think there's no reason to imagine that they shouldn't. Generally, the Romans weren't that bothered about what belief systems were adopted and could be most of these belief systems, you know, gods, gods, goddesses are highly localized and could be easily absorbed into the Roman pantheon.
- [31:52]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Syncretism, isn't it?
- [31:53]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yes, that's right. And we certainly have a lot of Roman gods and goddesses at this site. We've got certainly evidence of Venus, Mercury, of Neptune all being worshipped or venerated at Ventriconorum.
- [32:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So whichever God or goddess was worshipped at that site before the Romans come, the Romans could have said that deity seems very similar to Venus or Mercury. So do you get it like you have in, isn't it Bath where they have Akae, Sulis and a mixture of, you know, Minerva and Sulis. Do we think it could have been a similar case here? A certain Roman deity is basically likened, is joined to the local deity that was worshipped here?
- [32:38]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, we could have a syncretic situation or we could have multiple deities worshipped at the same site. It's very hard to tell. And annoyingly, because we have no good stone around here, we don't get any inscriptions, so we have nothing to really tell us about that. Kind of behavior beyond the material culture.
- [33:02]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And in regards to the layout of the town itself, the archaeological work that you've done over the years, is it reflective of, you know, you mentioned there's a forum right in the center. So is it very much the traditional layout of a Roman town from anywhere in the Empire?
- [33:16]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
To some extent. And I think perhaps superficially it has that aspect. It's got a gridded street system. The evidence that we have suggests that street system develops over time rather than being sort of laid out in one big act of Roman planning. And we have the sorts of buildings that we expect in towns. In Roman Britain, we have, you know, the forum temples, a bath house. Generally. In Roman Britain, there's not actually much adoption of some of the key aspects of urbanism. In the, you know, in the Mediterranean, you'll get lots of local worthies sort of erecting inscriptions and statues and making donations to their local town. And we have tons of epigraphic evidence from Gaul, but also more particularly from Italy, of this sort of behaviour that never really takes off in Roman Britain. There's very far less of that kind of behavior going on in Britain. And so I think the reason that Ventura Akinorum is quite the small civic centre is partly that kind of lack of interest in this kind of civic behavior. Conversely, the major temple sites that always seems to be this focus of the Iceni that does get really monumentalized in the second century particular, particularly. So while we have one of the, I think, the smallest forum in Roman Britain, we have, I think, the second largest Romano Celtic temple. So it's not that the Aceni perhaps didn't have the resources, but that's where they were spending it, not on building a big forum.
- [35:08]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And do we have at all any, like, inscriptions survive from the temple side that might mention a person who is an Akane, maybe making a donation or an offering at the temple or anything like that, which might give us more names of Iceni people during this Roman period.
- [35:23]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
The only really good textual text we have is a curse tablet or defixio that comes from the river. And it's brilliant. It's absolutely my favourite thing from the site because it really humanises, sort of brings everything down to a human level. And it's the dedicant, it's, I think, a chap called something like Nazenius, or Nays on the defixio, and he's had a series of items stolen from him. It includes 10 pewter vessels, a headdress, which is quite an interesting idea in itself, and a pair of Leggings. And he says, neptune, bring me the blood of the culprit and I'll give you the leggings. And so this is, I love this because the idea that what's going to swing it for an all powerful oceanic deity is a pair of second hand leggings from Norfolk, it just brings everything to a really, really human level. But this is, it's one of the only, I think this is the only sort of voice, I think the only example of a sort of voice of a local person that we have from.
- [36:40]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
This period so far.
- [36:42]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
So far.
- [36:43]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Because it sounds like, are there still quite a few or quite a lot of unanswered questions that you'd love to find the answer to through the archaeology being done here and in future years as well, that might reveal more about the nature of the Achenae relationship with Romans and how long the whole identity of someone being an Iceni endures during the Roman period.
- [37:07]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah, I think there's a lot that could still come up. We certainly know that the people living here in the Roman period, there was a lot, there was a great deal of literacy. We find a lot of writing equipment and to some extent that's expected. It's the centre of administration, it's a centre of record keeping, of tax collection. But we know that all sorts of people are writing. We get scratch graffiti on pots, not only on pots that we're finding in the ground, but clearly there is graffiti being made by the potters, by the potters themselves. And so I think the more we have of that level of literacy, the more we might see voices of local people. But how long an Iceni identity lasts is a really interesting question. The town is still Venter icinorum in the 4th, certainly in the 4th century. It's recorded as such in the Antonine itineraries, which is a sort of a kind of guide to how you move around the Roman Empire. And so the town certainly still has that name, whether that identity is still present. Clearly by the 4th century, everyone is Roman in one sense or another. But people can have multiple, you know, multiple identities. People can be Roman, but people can still be Achane. And I think certainly as we enter into the sort of challenging period of the late 4th and 5th century, those sorts of local identities quite often reemerge. They have a resurgence in times of stress. And so, you know, I see no reason why an Ice identity, you know, could not be persisting in that period.
- [39:04]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So you could actually see a revival of people claiming their Icani ancestry in like the first 5th century when all the troubles come. And I guess also in this part of the world where you probably get more the threat of Saxons or Franks or whoever coming from across the seas, you've got the so called shore fort at Burgh Castle not too far away, don't you, with those threats? You know, maybe it could have. And I know we're in a big period of speculation now, a big topic of speculation, but that could have elevated the possibilities of people really stretching back to the Akane identity evolved.
- [39:36]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
I think that's right. And certainly here we have very strong evidence of an early, let's say Anglo Saxon presence. We've got very early cemeteries here dating to the 5th century, which are full of new material culture and we see new settlement developing here. Who those people are is a really big question, but it's certainly something that we do see in Roman Britain as a whole. In this period we see new regional identities emerging. So in the southwest, people are choosing, I think, to become Roman in a way that they probably actually weren't during the Roman period. There's a newly emergent Roman identity, but in other parts of the country we're going to see other different local identities emerging.
- [40:30]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, Will, it's such a pleasure to be here and to see how the archaeology is adding more to, you know, the story of the Aceni and I guess is it. It's pushing aside this old idea that the Aceni, they disappear once Boudicca is defeated. They don't, they're still here. And it's remarkable to see all this new evidence emerging.
- [40:49]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Absolutely. I think if there's one thing that we can achieve here is to try and move the Ikeni away from the Buddhican revolt narrative, because the survival of that narrative is a peculiar combination of circumstances and the utility of Boudicca as a woman leader to those Roman writers in the narrative that they want to create.
- [41:18]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Even though it wasn't unusual for a woman to be powerful in Iron Age Britain.
- [41:21]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
No, we've got several examples, but we know that there are probably quite a lot of revolts in Roman Britain, but this is the one that is particularly attractive to Roman sources and it's also particularly attractive to the people who are looking at Roman sources later on. So we have our Boudicca tinted spectacles, if you like, that we tend to look at the Aceni through. And so I'm hoping that fun as the Budokan revolt is as a hook for people. I think it's important that the entire sort of 800,000 year history of this region is not looked at solely through the window of that particular year.
- [42:02]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Will, thank you so much for your time.
- [42:04]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Pleasure.
- [42:12]
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- [43:20]
Podcast Narrator / Host
The work of William and the Caesta Roman project has already revealed so much about the Aceni, showing how their story is so much more than just Boudicca. And it's exciting to think about what new finds they'll unearth in the future. Now with all the archaeology around me, before I left the dig, I couldn't resist having a look at some of their latest discoveries fresh out of the ground. To talk me through them, I sat down with the project's chairman, Andy Woodman. We'll put a link in the description where you can see photos of the objects.
- [43:54]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Andy, it is great to have you on the podcast today.
- [43:57]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Very welcome. Thank you. You've wonderful and thanks for coming to see us.
- [43:59]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, it's a pleasure to be here. We've had a chat with Will already.
- [44:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Yes, yeah.
- [44:03]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
About the bikini. And now you've brought ourselves a select choice.
- [44:08]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Select a choice selection of sexy bits. Yes, I have.
- [44:13]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So what have we got? Let's get straight into it. What's this first object?
- [44:16]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Let's go early.
- [44:17]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Right.
- [44:18]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
This early object is an early Saxon barbed and tongued tanged arrowhead.
- [44:24]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Early sailors accent.
- [44:25]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Did you say?
- [44:26]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
No, I didn't. I said. I said early Bronze Age.
- [44:28]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Early Bronze Age.
- [44:30]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Just going Funny, Tristan. And you can see it's translucent. It's made of fine flint. So this is a very fine flake which has then been shaped using an antler tool to get the tangs. And obviously the point about a barbed and tanged arrowhead is once it goes in, it stays in.
- [44:49]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So that's showing that people were here long before. Before, you know, mentions of the AC by the Romans here.
- [44:55]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
There are Bronze Age barrows and stuff in the vicinity, and there's a henge about two miles away. So around the lowland rivers we're going to be having prehistoric people. I think there are other people who are going through the earlier ages of the Stone Age, the Paleolithic, the Mesolithic, around rivers. And this site is near the confluence of rivers, so that's often a significant piece of work. But that's a lovely.
- [45:22]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
A lovely piece of lucid, isn't it?
- [45:24]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's the nicest I've ever seen come out of the ground. And I'm going to put it back in the bag before I get told off.
- [45:30]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And next. So we have got. It's a coin.
- [45:35]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Next we've got is a coin. And we find a fair amount of coins here. All of our meadows and fields have been very thoroughly metal detected, but metal detection only goes to a certain level and even so we still find we get nighthawked. But the local Norfolk policeman, who is the nighthawk policeman, is also one of our members, so that. That helps. And he also makes reproduction Roman pottery, which is a bizarre combination. But once the turf is off and we get down below the. The range of a metal detector, then we start to find a significant amount of coins. Most of the coins we find are middle fourth, middle fourth century, Constantinian, Constantine.
- [46:21]
Podcast Host (Ancients)
Okay, right.
- [46:22]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [46:23]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Around about the 330 to 350 tiny coins, easy to lose, probably, probably of relatively low value, probably dating to the time when the town was resurgent, possibly due to the export of grain and wool to the Rhine frontier, which was under stress at that time from the barbarians across the river. What's interesting about this coin is that it's silver plated. Okay. It's the first one that we're aware of that isn't solid gold or solid silver. The Acadia weren't going to be. Weren't minting. Minting coins is a. Weren't striking coins. That much coinage is obviously comes in through contact with Roman economies across the channel and they won't be used as a coin economy as such. It would have had a specific value, but this one is different because it's a copper alloy coin with sheets, thin sheets of silver on either side before it struck.
- [47:31]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So is it almost like in this time where a coin's worth is the value of, like its metal composition? Is this almost a ripoff coin or a con.
- [47:39]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Well, that's the question. We haven't found one like it before, so our coin expert will be digging into his comparatives to find out. But it could be a hooky coin or it could be that they were struck to give to people for command memorative reasons rather than for, you know, coinage value. So. But an interesting one nonetheless.
- [48:00]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And do we know what it said, what it shows on it? What are the images on it?
- [48:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
On the reverse it has a typically Iron Age collection of stylized horses. So it's a classic zoomorphic art on. On the reverse side. So a lovely.
- [48:15]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
A lovely piece and potentially, I guess, theorization isn't it. But if it was a. There was a time of difficulty for these people before the Romans take full control of this region. Maybe this coin is evidence of it, but as you say, more evidence needs to be done on it. But it's still interesting to theorize.
- [48:31]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's still interesting because it's different and you know, it's. As you know, with all these things, there are hundreds, tens of thousands of pieces of pottery and brickwork, etc. But it's when you find something different and it makes you think, well, shall.
- [48:46]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
We now turn our attention to this object? Right. It's a small face.
- [48:52]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's a small face.
- [48:53]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
It's about the size of. It's about 5 centimeters tall, I'd say.
- [48:58]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's. Yeah, it's a couple 5 centimeters, 3, 4, 5. Slightly hollowed at the back.
- [49:02]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Right.
- [49:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's of a bearded and hairsuit man with possibly braided hair or. Oh, yes, it looks tad like the Emperor Hadrian.
- [49:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
I was actually thinking that it looks like the hairstyle and with a beard of.
- [49:14]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Doesn't it just. He's lost a bit of his nose. So he may have had a more Roman nose before he was in the plough soil for 2,000 years. But wouldn't we all, frankly? And it's either going to be on a building, although it's quite small if you want to see it from a long distance, or it's going to be on a. On a large vessel, a large urn or something. It's been suggested it might be one of the four winds, but not seen one before. It's made out of pretty horrid clay and fired it's been fired in a kiln. But it's not that.
- [49:47]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
I mean, the details still survive. You know, the clear features of a face, the ear, the nose, the eyes, the hair and everything.
- [49:53]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
They're all there. So again, we're going to have to look into some parallels for that. But that's a beautiful piece.
- [49:59]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And do we think that would date to the Roman period?
- [50:00]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I think, I think given. Given its context, I think we're talking in early second century.
- [50:07]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And certainly with the hairstyle and everything.
- [50:08]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Certainly with the hairstyle and that looks kind of Hadrianic.
- [50:11]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
It looks very. Quite Roman. Yes, indeed.
- [50:13]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Absolutely does.
- [50:15]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, what have we got next?
- [50:16]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
What have we got next from a similar period? We've got this delightful little. What's called a fly brooch. And it looks just like a house fly.
- [50:26]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Like a house fly. So I've never ever heard of a ancient decoration in the form of a fly.
- [50:32]
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Me neither.
- [50:33]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Yeah.
- [50:34]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
And it's dead cute. You know, you can imagine 2000 years ago when it hasn't been in, in the dirt for the last 2000 years. That's going to be shiny and polished. One of my guys has looked into parallels and found some pictures of some similar fly broaches with some enamel blobs on it covering. This one doesn't look like it has because had it be, there would have been some little recesses, I think, suspect in there. Yeah.
- [50:59]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And to describe it. So you can see two clear, very thin wings.
- [51:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Very thin wings.
- [51:04]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Looks like a Y shaped tail at the right of the.
- [51:06]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Yes. And a sort of pointed mouth with a. Almost. With a proboscis.
- [51:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Is that the right word?
- [51:11]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Proscus? I forget my.
- [51:13]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, it's either a beak or a proboscis, isn't it? But like it's. Yeah.
- [51:16]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
And on the back there would have been a very thin pin joining it together. But clearly this is what, a centimeter or more centimeter. Centimeter and a half. In, in total size. So that's not going to hold a piece of clothing together. This is bling. This is decoration. This is something. Whether it's associated, as someone might have suggested, with mercury, I don't know, or whether it's someone who liked house flies.
- [51:42]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
I'd. The person who likes house flies.
- [51:45]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Exactly. Yeah. We get a lot of horse flies around here, so maybe, maybe, maybe it's to ward off horse flies. I don't know. But that's a very sweet little thing.
- [51:54]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
That really is, isn't it? And I guess it's also, I mean, the, the skill and the Detail to craft that the metal working which you get associated with the Akane quite a lot and evidently continues.
- [52:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
We do and we know that just to the other side of that field there's evidence of. Of broach making in, in the. In the pre Budican period. And one of the reasons we're in this field because we know there are kilns and furnaces and in here we just haven't landed on top of one just yet.
- [52:20]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Not just yet.
- [52:21]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Not just yet, but we will and we're going to at some point in the future we're going to reinvestigate the. The area that Surgeon Commander man discovered the brooch making. It's a scheduled area now.
- [52:33]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
But that's a sweetie arrowhead coin head and brooch fly brooch.
- [52:39]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Y We'll do a couple more I think got loads and loads of coins as I said from the middle 4th century as lots of Roman sites do.
- [52:49]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
The Age of Constantine.
- [52:51]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Yeah, the Age of Constantine where there's rampant inflation, where huge coin loss. Also an area of great uncertainty with the Constantinian change and the British emperor that declared himself and roamed around. But I've chosen some things which kind of illustrate what it might be like to have a Roman influenced town in the middle of a rural population. Okay. Not near, not near the rest of Roman society.
- [53:17]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Right.
- [53:17]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
We don't have a whole series of villas with, with mosaics and dancing nymphs. Right? We don't. The biggest town near to here is. Is Colchester yet we have Roman Romana, British temples. That would have been the largest building this side of. This side of Colchester.
- [53:35]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Yes. So the majority of people here, they're Iron Age people still in their, their round houses and so on.
- [53:39]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Exactly, absolutely. And the elite would become more Romanized than the non elite. But I agree with you. It's the same population that was here through the Bronze Age and the Iron Age and would have been here throughout until the post Roman period. And they probably still lived in the same way they did before but they would gradually adopt some Roman techniques like wheel based pottery. Better, better kilns and the elite would start acquiring some nice Roman bling. And we tend to find this.
- [54:12]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So what is this pointy object we have here?
- [54:14]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
This. This pointy object is a very pretty stylus. Just. It's just missing the point then there and probably. Yeah. And at the top there might have been a flat piece just to smooth out any mistakes in. In the wax. But it's got some beautiful decoration at the top there.
- [54:30]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So that's almost like the Equivalent of a rubber on a pencil, I think.
- [54:34]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
So I think this is the Mont Blanc of the early Roman period.
- [54:39]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So it's got. Right.
- [54:40]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
So this is.
- [54:40]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Once again, this is about trying to think of a 30 centimeter ruler. It's about 10 centimeters.
- [54:45]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I think that's about 10 centimeters. That's the size of a trowel.
- [54:47]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And right at the top, maybe half a centimeter, you have a little bit of decoration. The rest is just kind of black in color.
- [54:53]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's black, but shiny. Black.
- [54:54]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Shiny.
- [54:55]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's been polished.
- [54:56]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Been polished. And then the decoration is horizontal bands and then a few vertical. Well, diagonal.
- [55:03]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Yeah, sort of trellis shape. But.
- [55:06]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So what do we know about it? What do we think then?
- [55:08]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
What do you think? It's.
- [55:09]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Do we think that, do we think the material was local, that kind of blackish material?
- [55:12]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's hard to say. It's originally thought to be a copper alloy. And I think it is rather than a piece of gel jet or something. I think it'd be hard to get a piece of jet that fine. So. So I think it's that and then colored, but it. And I think it's metal, but it's a lovely little piece. And what it illustrates clearly is literacy in a totally non literate population in a. In a region of the country that's non literate. We've got the introduction of literacy.
- [55:41]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And do we think that would be centered on the Roman towns within the wall? Would there be more people?
- [55:47]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I think within the wall. I think within the wall you've got Roman administrators. I think the purpose of the town is to control the market, to control import and export and to control taxation and somebody is keeping a score. And I think that's what that illustrates.
- [56:06]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And so do we think that some members of the local population, you know, they would have adapted to Roman, I guess, Roman lifestyle, Some local Iron Age people, some Ikeni people would be living within the walls of.
- [56:17]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Absolutely.
- [56:19]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
And they would have learned things like writing.
- [56:20]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
We, we would think that at its peak you've got two or three thousand people, which is. That's a large number at a time when the population of the whole island was what, 2 million? Yes, something like that. So there is a concentration and wealth concentrates and work opportunities to concentrate. So that's typically why, I think we'll.
- [56:40]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
See that we have one more.
- [56:42]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
We have one. We have one more in typical show and tell tradition. And this talks a little bit about what people do in their spare time.
- [56:54]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Amazing.
- [56:55]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
This is a polished bone gaming counter. Right. It's about A centimeter and a half in diameter. And it's been inscribed with perfect concentric circles. It's very tactile.
- [57:10]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
So it's a clear gaming piece, isn't it? You know, that design.
- [57:14]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It has no other purpose itself. You've got some kind of a board with counters on that. You're moving around.
- [57:20]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
This is a gaming counter.
- [57:21]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
That's a gaming counter. And someone has made that specifically for that game.
- [57:25]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
I love it when archaeologists find these sorts of artifacts because they do give you an insight into the downtown time almost.
- [57:32]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's people stuff as well.
- [57:33]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
It's people stuff, exactly. You get the beautiful heads of, you know, maybe an emperor or a God or so on. But to get something like that, you know, what they did together around a fire or a hearth or something like that, they're really special, I think.
- [57:47]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
So that's what makes it special. In and amongst the mountains of pottery and brickwork and bones and everything else. Yeah.
- [57:54]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Do we think that is made out of bone? I mean, what types of bone would they have been using?
- [57:58]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's hard to say. It's been polished and I. I mean, this came out of the ground two hours ago.
- [58:03]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Two hours ago. We are on the scene. This is breaking news.
- [58:05]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Absolutely on the scene. So you'll appreciate there's not been an awful lot of work done on it. But we will clearly look into it and we'll look into parallels around the rest of Britain.
- [58:16]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
But were there particular animals whose bones were used more than others at this site?
- [58:20]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I'm not sure. I mean, antler gets used for quite sweet stuff.
- [58:23]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Stuff.
- [58:24]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
But I think this is probably sheep. Maybe sheep. Sheep is the most predominant bone, so that suggests it's the most predominant bone. Cow bones are bigger, so perhaps they're more resilient to being worked. I mean, that looks like it's been put on lase, doesn't it? I mean, it's that precise. That looks like there's been lathe worked. You wouldn't put a brittle bone on there.
- [58:44]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, Andy, it's such a pleasure to have you on, especially as you've got a strong connection to history here and the many years you've been working here. I mean, are there any particular artifacts that you've discovered over the years that are, you know, really close to your heart that you'd like to mention?
- [58:58]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Well, I haven't talked about that. I think finding the temple complex.
- [59:02]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Yeah. Just across the road. Building. Yeah.
- [59:04]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Which is the second largest Ramona British temple in the country. And the largest one. That's the Only one that's larger than this is at Silchester, which is a temple order of magnitude bigger. And Silchester is really is built on top of Kvitas, section of main thoroughfares and roads, etc. And when we investigated it, we found actually there were two phases and below the very first phage was a beautiful gold coin, Trinovantian gold coin. So from the. The next tribe along that temple was demolished and a much bigger, blingier temple was put on its place. And underneath the foundations of that replacement count temple were a line of nine coins, each of different emperors from Nero to Hadrian.
- [59:53]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Wow.
- [59:53]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Now that doesn't sound like an accident, just continuous. Yeah, it's just, it's just one after. It's got every single emperor except for, except for Titus and he was quite transient. Anyway, he wasn't there for long, so. So someone has, has made a point that says we've taken down the old temple which was probably put on top of a sacred tree or something sacred to the local population, and we're replacing it with this bigger, better temple. But we don't want to anger anyone, so we're going to redeposit this line of coins, each for a different emperor. Unfortunately, one smaller than 10 and 10 constitutes a hoard and we'd have to go through a whole faff if you got hoard, so it's not a faff. We can, we don't have to go through that.
- [60:38]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, Andy, you're a great character and just looking at these particular artifacts, it just shows the great, you know, the variety of objects that have been uncovered here, these digs over the years. And I mean for you in particular, I know you'll be here many more years in the future too, but is there.
- [60:52]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I suspect so.
- [60:53]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Is there any dream objects you'd love to find a cany object that you'd like to, to, to find in the ground one day?
- [60:59]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
Well, one we've not found any, any real evidence of. Military. Yeah, okay, right yourself here. Not that I'm desperately looking to do that. I cut my teeth on the Roman wall in the north, so you get enough stuff up there, military stuff. But it would be interesting to find something to prove it or otherwise. And I think it's just to understand that cultural transition from the Iron Age into Romanized society and at the other end to understand the transition from a Roman administration to a. Well, to whatever that post Roman age was and how it evolved. And we know that there's some early Saxon settlement around here and there's an Early Saxon graveyard cemetery over there. And we know that by the middle Saxon period they've moved to the modern beginning of Norwich. But that's I think, what we. Ideally, what we'd like to know some more about that transition at each end of the Roman period. There's loads of places you can find about peak Roman period. We're never going to find the dancing nymphs. We're never going to find a full.
- [62:07]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Are you telling me you're not. Have you given up hope of finding a complete mosaic of an elaborate Greek myth?
- [62:13]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I think so. We found a lot of tessellated flaws and we found what we thought was a.
- [62:19]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Are you sure that Pompeii of Norfolk is not beneath these fields?
- [62:22]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
It's hard to say, isn't it? I mean, the Pompevena we found lots of aqueducts. Well, what we found is a series of iron collars.
- [62:29]
William Bowden (Professor of Roman Archaeology)
Lovely.
- [62:30]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
The wooden already rotted away. But yeah, I'd like to understand more about that and I'd like to transform our organization to something which is more self sustaining. We've been funded by donations and funds for the last period of time and that way of working is dying now. There are charities giving out money in the same way as there were. So we have to transform ourselves into something which is more sustaining and that's going to be a challenge to us. And as the next chairman, it's all going to fall on me somehow.
- [63:02]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, Andy, hopefully you'll get much more interest in this. Now with this episode all about the Acadian.
- [63:07]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
I'm hoping so. And if anyone is interested in joining us, then they can apply for membership through our website, which is casetaromanproject.org case to Roman project.
- [63:16]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, there we go. Andy, thank you so much once again for showing me these artifacts and giving me a part of your time to talk all about it.
- [63:22]
Andy Woodman (Chairman of Caesta Roman Project)
You're most welcome. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
- [63:28]
Podcast Host / Interviewer
Well, I've had the most wonderful day here at Caister Saint Edmonds, or Venta Icanorum, if you prefer. My favorite thanks to the project team to Andy Woodman and Professor William Bowden at Nottingham University for inviting us today. The teams here, including multiple volunteers, are doing incredible work piecing together fragments of history, finding the lost stories that lie hidden beneath the soil for nearly 2000 years. From gaming pieces to that amazing Roman stylus. You can find out more about the Caesta Roman Project at their website, which has detailed maps of the site and photographs of key finds. We've put the link in the show notes. I'll also put images of the objects we looked at on my social media page on my Instagram so you can look at that as well. Now if you want to hear more about the Akanian Boudica, well, we have some great episodes in our Ancients archive. You'll find links to them too in the show Notes of this episode. This is one of my favorite parts of the job, getting right up close to history, touching the same items families and even warriors of the Achenae would have touched almost 2,000 years ago. And to actually come here, to come here to the excavation itself to do an Ancients recording on site. It's such a pleasure to do and I really do hope you've enjoyed the episode. I hope the Aceni and Boudicca herself will be happy to know that they haven't been forgotten. This has been the Ancients from History Kit. Thanks for joining us and I'll see you in the next episode.
- [65:03]
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