2025 Changed Graphic Design. Here’s Why It Matters

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Angry Designer – “2025 Changed Graphic Design. Here’s Why It Matters”
Episode Date: December 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively, candid year-in-review episode sees hosts Massimo and Sean reflecting on the seismic changes that swept through the graphic design industry in 2025. Rather than focusing on a single event or trend, the hosts examine the ways in which designers, brands, tools, and even client expectations were all “exposed” this year. Themes include the impact of AI, the importance of design fundamentals, how brand disasters illuminate industry blind spots, and the need for designers to embrace strategic thinking over mere aesthetics.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Year Everything Got “Exposed”

(00:00–03:06)

• 2025 felt uncomfortable for many designers not because of one big event, but due to a “collision” of controversial industry shifts—especially surrounding AI, design tools, and a slew of questionable brand moves.
• Quote [02:21]:
  “If there was a constant theme throughout the year... it seems like the theme this year is... everyone’s being exposed.” – Massimo

2. AI – Exposing Weaknesses and Raising the Bar

(03:06–10:00)

• AI’s integration sparked anxiety but quickly revealed who actually understands design vs. who just pushes buttons.
• Lazy designers who skip research and strategy, focusing only on “making stuff look good,” are being called out and left behind.
• AI is likened to a junior designer: useful as a tool, but only powerful in expert hands.
• Quote [05:01]:
  “AI was more like... it was going to expose the lazy designs. It was going to expose the people who didn’t do the fundamentals.” – Massimo
• They note the difference between using AI as a tool vs. being dependent on it, highlighting “AI-integrators” vs. “AI-dependents.”
• Notably, major brands—even those pushing AI—often stuck with analog, human-crafted advertisements, underlining the value of human touch.
• Quote [08:22]:
  “Because you know the story behind [Apple’s analog intro], there’s this warmth when you see it. You’ll take that extra second or two and appreciate it.” – Massimo

3. Faster, Cheaper… and Lower Standards?

(10:00–11:47)

• AI and templates have led clients to expect faster turnarounds, even if it means accepting mediocre results.
• Designers worry about quality being sacrificed for speed—but the hosts see this as a phase that will sort itself out.
• Including clients earlier in the process is a way to maintain standards without yielding to “quick and dirty” work.

4. Brand Disasters of 2025

(13:31–22:34)

• A highlight reel of major brand “fuck ups”:
  • Jaguar’s rebrand confused everyone by trying to pivot to a “lifestyle brand.”
  • Cracker Barrel removed beloved mascot Uncle Herschel, alienating their core audience in a misguided modernizing effort.
  • HBO re-rebranded multiple times (HBO, HBO Max, Max) causing mass confusion, only to circle back.
• Common theme: These brands ignored or misunderstood their loyal users/customers.
• Quote [15:10]:
  “They were trying to create something... the world had no idea what the hell they were trying to do.” – Massimo
• Discussion of the trend towards ‘blanding’ (logos stripped of personality) vs. brands (like Alpen cereal) that did the opposite—highlighting how distinctiveness is still vital.

5. Tool Bonanza – The Adobe/Affinity/Canva Shakeup

(23:05–27:54)

• Adobe’s service agreement fiasco (claiming rights over users’ creative work for AI training) made many designers “Adobe zombies,” stuck by inertia.
• Affinity responded with bold moves—offering their software for free, driving millions to switch (especially in education), reminiscent of Adobe’s own strategy decades ago.
• Canva acquiring Affinity is seen as a long-term play to entrench their tools among young designers.
• Quote [24:03]:
  “We are Adobe Zombies now. We’re following it and I hate that.” – Massimo
• Adobe “exposed” themselves by focusing on profit over their designer community, whereas Affinity/Canva played the long game.

6. Designer vs. Artist Mindset

(27:54–32:07)

• Popular (and polarizing) mini-series episodes tackled the difference between designers (who solve client problems) and artists (whose work is self-expression).
• The hosts stress accepting criticism and prioritizing strategy, not “fragile ego.”
• Quote [28:38]:
  “There is a huge difference between how designers think and how artists think. Artists focus on self-expression... designers focus on the end user.” – Massimo
• Some pushback from listeners (“Oh, you guys trying to label people"), but also appreciation for the clarity on roles.
• The main message: Be strategic, not just aesthetic.

7. Surviving Industry Turbulence: Strategy Over Aesthetics

(32:07–33:50)

• Strategic (problem-solving) designers consistently attract clients and can weather changes in tools or tech, like AI.
• “Pretty doesn’t get results. The strategy behind pretty gets results.”
• New designers must embrace the strategic side, understand problems, and deliver results—not just visuals.

8. Final Thoughts and Looking Ahead

(33:50–37:16)

• Despite the chaos and “calling out,” 2025 was a net positive for designers—the industry is stronger for having exposed its flaws.
• Fiverr (“commoditizing design”) shifted to AI-first, ironically cutting out the designers it profited from. Shortcuts and low-cost gigs are seen as a “fad” that can’t last.
• AI is now clearly “just a tool, and it is not perfect. It’s only as good as the person who is using it.”
• Quote [35:51]:
  “I think that this is a big plus year for designers… I’m kind of excited for what next year brings.” – Massimo
• Predictions for 2026: Bigger focus on integrating AI wisely, a return to valuing human connection (local work, networking, in-person events), and analog experiences regaining importance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the year’s main theme [02:21]:
  “If there was a constant theme throughout the year... it seems like the theme this year is... everyone’s being exposed.” – Massimo

• On AI’s role [05:01]:
  “AI was more like... it was going to expose the lazy designs. It was going to expose the people who didn’t do the fundamentals.” – Massimo

• On AI vs. Human Creativity [08:22]:
  “Because you know the story behind [Apple’s analog intro], there’s this warmth when you see it... and appreciate it.” – Massimo

• On brand mistakes [15:10]:
  “They were trying to create something... the world had no idea what the hell they were trying to do.” – Massimo

• On strategic design [32:41]:
  “Are they hiring you to make something look pretty, or are they hiring you to help them achieve a goal and make some money?” – Massimo

• On predictions for next year [36:27]:
  “I do think that networking is going to be a huge thing next year. I do... People are going to want to get connected to humans again.” – Massimo

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• 00:00 – Opening reflections & setting the theme: “Exposing the industry”
• 03:06–10:00 – The impact of AI and the “exposing” of lazy design
• 10:00–11:47 – Clients’ changing expectations: faster, cheaper, and lower standards
• 13:31–22:34 – Brand disasters: Jaguar, Cracker Barrel, HBO, Alpen cereal
• 23:05–27:54 – Tool shakeup: The Adobe/Affinity/Canva saga
• 27:54–32:07 – Designer vs. artist mindset; embracing strategy
• 32:07–33:50 – Why strategy will always outlast trends
• 33:50–37:16 – Final thoughts: Industry lessons and 2026 predictions

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Episode Tone and Style

True to the podcast’s “No-Bull” tagline, the tone is irreverent, comedic, and unapologetically blunt. The hosts riff off one another with genuine banter (“two guys drinking, bitching about graphic design” [01:30]), but back up their opinions with hard-earned industry insights. There’s an undercurrent of optimism—amid the frustrations and upheaval, they see opportunity and meaningful change for those willing to evolve.

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Summary Takeaway

2025 was a year that exposed weakness in designers, brands, and tools, forcing a reckoning with fundamentals and strategy. AI’s rise separated real designers from fakes; strategic thinking triumphed over visual decoration; and brands paid dearly for alienating their core audiences. The year’s upheavals, though at times messy, ultimately left the design industry with clearer priorities—and a renewed need for human connection and critical thinking in the face of rapid change.

Transcript

[A]

This year felt uncomfortable for a lot of designers, and it wasn't because of one specific tool launch or one specific rebrand that went bad, but because everything seemed to collide at once, and designers mindsets were always challenged. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by Wick Studio, we're walking through the big themes that defined this year, based on what we actually recorded, what they revealed about design, what they revealed about the industry, and about designers themselves. Because whether you realized it or not, this year, it didn't just move fast. It called out a lot of bs. Let's go. Cheers, buddy. Cheers. Cheers. We're basically at the end of the year.

[B]

Yeah, we're here. We made it.

[A]

I think this is the. The last episode of the year that we'll be recording, or at least that you guys will be listening to. But, you know, it's just. It felt like so much happened just like this week.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, literally. It's just. It's. It's been a crazy year. And I mean, it's. It's kind of. I don't know, I kind of felt that maybe this would be kind of a good opportunity for us to kind of recap what has happened this year.

[B]

Recap.

[A]

But we've never really done a recap. No, we keep trying. Like, we keep trying. You know how Christmas came to be.

[B]

My favorite kind of episodes. I love that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I learned so much, but apparently nobody wants.

[A]

Apparently nobody wants to. They want to hear two guys drinking, bitching about graphic design. So that's what you guys are going to get.

[B]

Yes. All right.

[A]

But for real, though, you know, we had a crazy amount of episodes. You know, we hit every. Every week this year, we released an episode. Almost everyone hit a lot of conversations, a lot of controversy, you know, and there was a lot of reoccurring conversations showing up. Right. It was always, you know, AI, which leads to talking about tools, and then tools, which leads talking to, like, brand ups and then brand ups. That should lead to, like, mindset changes. And then it goes from mindset changes back to a. Like, it felt like it was just a constant circle.

[B]

Yeah. There was a lot of brand fuckups this year, though, right?

[A]

Yes, and we'll talk about some of those. But yeah, it. Again, it feels like. And the years just start merging because.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You think brands would remember from the years before, like, you. But apparently not. But it seems like if. If. If there was a constant theme throughout the year. Okay. Because even though there was a lot of looping episodes and topics, it seems like the Theme this year is, is I don't want to say everybody's exposed and everybody's being exposed, but I kind of feel like this was the year that everything was called out. Brands were called out, AI was called out, lazy designers. You. It's like, and I'm not saying that all of a sudden we're going to be the call out designers and just call the. But if I had to put some sort of theme on this year, I think that this was it. Because I think a lot of people thought they'd be coasting this year.

[B]

Yeah, they didn't.

[A]

Yeah, right. A lot of people struggled. They didn't. A lot of people were scared about this year. Then you realize they didn't have much to be scared about. So it was just like this year, shit seemed to happen overnight. Like the whole market seemed to have shifted, like in the blink of an eye. And, and what I mean by that is, you know, forever. We were the people responsible to make shit look good.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. But we didn't make it look good. It was part of our process, right? Design was, you know, was. It's. We'll say it's like three parts, right? And the first parts, research. Second part is ideation, experimenting, planning, strategy. And then the third part is design. We'll just break it down easy. Yeah, right. And so that's what we were responsible for, and that was the process we took. But these tools out there, okay, made people forget about the first two parts and they just went to the design, straight to the design, right? And, and because that's what we saw, we saw so many tools and templates and even the services out there that are, you know, constantly driven down their face all focus on that end result. Right? And this is what I mean by like, you know, it's like the software itself became more of a distraction to good design. Fundamentals, right?

[B]

And the fundamentals go out the window. So you see all this stuff that doesn't make any sense, right? Yes.

[A]

So while all this came this year and slapped us all in the face, right? It's, it's like it was questioned now because again, more, more tools, more software like AI came and basically annihilated all this, right? And again, I always said that we wouldn't have anything to worry about, AI. Okay? But that was a topic that a lot of people were scared about the entire year, right? You know, and, and people still, do, they still talk like, you know, they still comment. It's like, oh, you guys are. You're wrong. AI is just going to Take over everybody's jobs. Right. But really, I mean, I think I said from the start that AI was more like it was going to expose the lazy designs.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It was going to expose the people who didn't do the fundamentals.

[B]

That's right. And see in the beauty part of that, again, we keep talking about this. It's an awesome. It's a great tool for that. Because if you know the fundamentals, if your processes are all in place and things are going well, you can use chat as a tool, as a huge tool, kickstart what you. But if you don't know any of that stuff, then exactly like you said, you're exposed, your ass is hanging in the wind. You've got something that doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Right. Because you don't know. You don't know the process. You don't know what. You don't know why you're. Exactly. You are literally just relying on it to spit out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, another version. You hit generate again. And you hit generate again. You can become a generate monkey. Exactly.

[B]

You know, my client likes.

[A]

Right. So. So again. And I think that's. That was why I was actually kind of happy about AI, because once you start using it, right. Once you start using it and integrated into your. Into your whole system and your process, Right. You realize how valuable of a tool it is for a designer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But at the same time, you also realize how. Realize how flawed it is. Okay. And again, I'd like to think that I'm pretty extensive user of AI and I use it on so many levels in so many different ways. And you know when it's giving you something good. When it's giving you something.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And the thing is, you still have to inject your own intuition, your taste. Right. You still have to be able to. To massage it and make it work. Yeah. Okay. All the time it's giving me something. And it's not that it's wrong. No. Okay. It's not like, it's like two plus two is eight. It's not wrong. Right. But the thing is, the answer it's giving me isn't the right answer. It would be akin to maybe a junior coming up with an idea. And it's like, okay, not bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But here's the bigger problem. Right? And so that's the cool thing where, you know, a lot of these other people, they're. They're. They're not AI integrators, they're AI dependents. Right. They're 100% all in and they think now they're freaking geniuses. I'm a designer now. I use, you know, canva AI and they generate shit. But again, they don't have the fundamentals for it. And they take it verbatim. Yeah. Okay. And that's so easy to call out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. First try. Right on the first one.

[A]

Right. So it's kind of a relief. And this is kind of all coming to fruition, this whole being exposed thing. Because, I mean, as clear as day, you know, that, you know, I think it's becoming more and more obvious to people that, you know, this is AI slob. Yeah. And this is what AI can look like when it's used properly.

[B]

Yeah. You know, the irony is the, the chat, the open AI, they all, they. They did everything. All legit film crews, real people. The other.

[A]

What do you mean, what?

[B]

They did ads, the open AI people. But it was all filmed with a camera, by directors, by live people. With live people.

[A]

Oh, ironic.

[B]

I know, right.

[A]

What is also nice is Apple had that ad this year. Did you see the Apple intro? And it was. Was it the logo reel for Apple for. Was Apple originals. And it could have so easily been created in motion graphics, as a motion graphic. Right. As AI or just digital. But they didn't. They did it old school. They did it analog. They used lighting, they used film, they use color cells. And is beautiful.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. True to Apple's taste. It's great. I don't know if I could tell the difference between that and if they would have done it digitally. I probably can't. But because you know the story behind it, there's this warmth to it when you see it. And you will take that extra second or two.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And appreciate it.

[B]

And appreciate.

[A]

Isn't that crazy? Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So again, another company totally could have gone AI in this.

[B]

Didn't.

[A]

So I think it's these brands have a little bit more appreciation for the human factor.

[B]

Human element. Yeah.

[A]

Where I think humans.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have less appreciation. You know, and they just want to get done and try to shortcut. And these are the guys that are being exposed this year. Right. So again, you know, we talked about, we're seeing customers give us, you know, material all the time. Be like, here we go. Use this copy.

[B]

Here's.

[A]

And it's like, you realize how this doesn't even make sense. Oh, yes, it does. Yes, it does.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's good because they're assuming AI is right. So it feels good. And again, same with, you know, the designers who use AI, they skip the two thirds of the fundamentals part. Right. And again, they're just jumping to the end. They're jumping to the profit. They're not learning the why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're going to be exposed. So, you know, they're basically trading strategy for just execution.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And that's, that's the problem. Like this is. It's, it's like AI is shifting expectations, but in my, in my opinion, it's for the better. Yeah. Because again, these people, I don't want their work. I don't want these people working for me. I don't want people who only see that, who do. Who want that crap, who want that kind of work. And I kind of feel like they just going to kind of kill themselves off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a fad for them, I think.

[A]

So. Right.

[B]

They're. They're not going to. The, they won't survive this trend.

[A]

The, the only unfortunate thing is what's happened though is, is because, and this was a hot topic that we talked this year and even comments wise is this has led to customers wanting things faster, expecting things faster.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And accepting things that were just me. Yeah. Just average, just okay. But if they get it faster, they're good with it. So I kind of feel like in that sense the standards have dropped for some people.

[B]

Yes. Which.

[A]

That's kind of unfortunate.

[B]

Yeah. That does kind of suck it. It is real big pitfall of, of, of what we do because, you know, there's a lot, you. There's generally a lot of time that goes into things that, that we do. You know, like what you think.

[A]

Right. It's not always get done, get done quick and dirty. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Bigger things. You know, we need a little more time on that.

[A]

I like, again, I don't think this is a forever thing.

[B]

No.

[A]

I think you've always had people who, who would sacrifice quality for speed. Right. You always had those customers. Unfortunately, you know, when price gets in that mix, then it really gets messy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. But I do think that again, this is something that's going to sort itself out because sadly, I think with tools advancing as they are, I think that we will be expected to do things faster. Faster turnarounds are going to start becoming more of the norm. Not saying that we're running sweatshops, but I'm saying that, you know, I think that now the technology is there, we're expected to get things out faster. And again, what we're doing is we're including the clients earlier on in the process so they feel like they're Getting stuff faster, but we're not skipping anything in the process. Right, but some people just go right to the end and they're just like, nope, they want the logo faster. I got to give it to them faster. Too bad for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think that expectation is now going to stick.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Design for graphic designers. Let's jump to some of the brand disasters that happened this year.

[B]

Oh good.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Was there any.

[A]

Yeah, there, there might have been one or two. I, I, I mean again, shocking that the kind of brands had these kind of fuckups and the kind of fuckups like what the Colossal.

[B]

What the. Did Jaguar do your number one one there? Yes, that one.

[A]

What Hideous. I and again, it's like dudes, they tried to redefine the brand and it made no sense. We're now a lifestyle brand. We're, we're not just about cars. Even though that's all we've ever been cars, you know, their target market is, you know, was old rich white people. Because let's face it, the cars were not that great. And they were like. No, we, we decided to change that and we're going to now focus on, I mean, again, I don't know what their reasoning was and why they did this. And that commercial was atrocious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was cool to watch. If it was about a fashion brand.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If it was a nightclub.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like maybe some sort of weird movement. But no, it was about a car brand that is now just a brand. It kind of reminds me of back when Prince changed his name from Prince to the symbol.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And nobody knew how to call it, and so they just basically did the worst thing possible, which was the dude who used to be known as Prince, but now. Is that squiggly? Needless to say, he went back to naming himself Prince.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

So. And again, I think so. Again, huge mistake for Jaguar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it was so obvious. They. Obviously, they were trying to create something that the world didn't. Well, number one, it's not even that the world wasn't ready for it. The world had no idea what the hell they were trying to do.

[B]

Exactly. And it just smacked the pandering. You know what I mean? It's just like, hey, look at us, we're so hip. You know, all you millennials can come buy our cars too.

[A]

Right, Right, Right. Oh, no, no. But they didn't want to sell them a car.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it wasn't about a car.

[B]

Brand about the car. Yeah.

[A]

So I can't even say why that was such a up. It was just on so many levels. It was so monumentally up. It seemed like it was just planned to destroy the brand. And that's what it did. Because I think the brand is basically done now. Yeah. There's nothing left to it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's Jaguar. Another one. Uncle Crocker. Crackle Bear. Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel who again? You know, I don't know if this was as hyped up, if this was as legit as it was or not, but again, their brand change pissed off so many people. A lot of people, but. And again. And this was the idea that they basically just turned their back on their current users for trying to grab future users.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh, how dare they.

[A]

Wait, and again, it's like they should have come up with a better strategy than, you know, basically alienating your. And we were just talking about. Alienating Alienating your core.

[B]

Yeah. You can't.

[A]

It's not like they were going to turn these locations into, like, a nightclub and start getting this whole new audience. People knew it as a family brand. Yeah. And what they did was the worst thing, which. Which was remove, you know, the heart and soul of the brand, which Was Uncle Herschel. Okay. And you know, people didn't like that. Apparently as, as hideous as that logo was, there were so many better options for them to do what they did and still keep the Herschel. Yeah. And then probably none of this would have happened, but by them removing him and becoming another blanded brand. Yeah. You know, there was such an uproar and it was ultimately because they didn't, they, they weren't focusing on their core market. They weren't focusing on their customers. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Or do you think that they just didn't expect that from their customers?

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Like, I don't know. It's such a, it's such a, like, it's such a puzzling thing. Like. I understand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wanting to reach out to a different.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Client. Sure. Or section of, of humanity. Like it just. It, it, like it does. It's just odd.

[A]

It is odd.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

It is odd.

[B]

They really want to just kind of modernize their. And if any.

[A]

But they modernize it. Not by alienating your existing market.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's. And that's what it felt like. It's like, you know, your, your market has grown up with Uncle Herschel.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And the people that have been there, that go there regularly have probably been going there for 20, 30 years, then all of a sudden they rip them away. Yes. They might as well have also just said, hey, you know what? Old people stay the hell out.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

We just want this whole new hip crowd.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, of course it's going to end. And that's what happens.

[B]

All pizza from here on in. You're not going to get home cooking. He's going to get Italian pizza. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What the.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If they just would have updated the logo and kept the dude, you know, and incorporated him again and you could do him better. Fair enough.

[B]

Like you said, you even did a version which was kick ass.

[A]

That was just like, do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So easy to do.

[A]

And the thing is, okay. Companies spend billions and billions of dollars trying to grow and develop a mascot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here they have this mascot, Uncle Herschel. He's built like you said, he's built in. And they just nixed them.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Not sure what their reasoning was, but needless to say, they got their asses handed to them.

[B]

Ever.

[A]

Holy.

[B]

They spent a lot of money doing that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So needless to say. Yeah. That didn't work out very well for that. So again, same lesson. They weren't paying attention to their end user.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the other brand, that really kind of did fuck ups like that. This was like monumental for years. The HBO fiasco. You want to talk about an identity crisis? Okay, it went from hbo. Then it went hbo Max. Then it went Max. They removed hbo. This is akin to cracker barrel removing gold coherschel jaguar removing the jaguar from jaguar. Hey, you know what? Let's not call it HBO anymore. Let's just call it Max, which is so specific. Oh my. Nobody's ever used masks before.

[B]

Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And, and then that was so not received well. They ended up going back to hbo.

[B]

Going back to hbo Max.

[A]

Yeah. No, no, I think, although the HBO originals, hbo, I think they maybe even have dropped the Max. But I mean it's like a full circle, right? It was so confusing.

[B]

Yeah, it was very confusing. And, and I don't know why they did that, but they had the little dot in the A, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it kind of made sense if they just, you know, okay, we're HBO Max. Now we're Max. But then people just got confused by that.

[A]

So confused. I don't know. And then, you know, I had a little solo episode where then I was debate, not even debating, but Christo did a video. Oh yes. About how he hated the Under Armour logo. Okay. And I mean, granted, whether you love it or hate it, he was doing a critique about it and he was using all these technical reasons, you know, why it's bad. But, but ultimately it, it check marked every one of his reasons. You know, a logo needs to be simple. It is simple. It is used to be iconic. Well, it definitely is. It came down to the fact that he just, he just strongly didn't like it for himself. He didn't like the way it looked. It was in his brand, you know, and, and, and my video was, was purely just based on the fact that, you know, whether you like it or not, you know, all the points that you're saying, you know, about this logo, about it not being on strategy and this and that were all wrong because it was on strategy. There was, it was behind it. And regardless, the point is it wasn't a right or wrong. Okay, but my whole point about having that video was that it's so easy for people to, you know, agree with fan or be fans and agree with somebody because you know, you, you idolize them, you love them, you trust them. And that whole video was all about, you know, be a critical thinker, think for yourself. You know, I, I loved Chris's points. I appreciated that he was so passionate against it because he just didn't like how it looked. Yeah. But it's okay to disagree with them. And that was that whole point of the video. Yeah. But needless to say, brand wise, this has been an interesting year. We didn't see as much blanding this year as the previous.

[B]

No.

[A]

But we did see more bland or brand mistakes this year than, I think, you know, more than any other year combined, that's for sure.

[B]

There was a cereal, Alpen Cereal. Have you ever heard of that?

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

I think it's English. I don't know. But they went the opposite of blanding.

[A]

They.

[B]

They had the simple logo. It was like a nice scripty thing. Then they have like this vista of, of mountains and it's like, it's organic food. Very, very beautiful colors.

[A]

Organic.

[B]

And I was just like, that's it. So somebody people.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Is they've put more into.

[A]

Well, and that was the whole. We had an episode strictly on this about how it's like people are stripping away the personality behind these logos, behind these marks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you need to have that personality by blending. You just blend into everything else.

[B]

Everything's going to look the same.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I get, you know, maybe in some reasons why is. Is so that it works on digital platforms and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, you have to respect the fact that you, you want to be original with your logo. You want to keep the characteristics, the personality behind it. You don't want to throw out the old uncle, you know, because you don't want to appeal to new people and you want it to be simple. Like you have. I don't know, I don't understand this blending world so much. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Logo evolution, people.

[B]

Yes, exactly, exactly.

[A]

And, and I think we also had a pretty hot year when it came to actual tools like tool explosion, the tool bonanza this year. Right. It seems like Adobe hit the paper every other month. Something new about it.

[B]

Speaking of comeuppance.

[A]

What, What, What?

[B]

Adobe. Oh, they get what they just exposed.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Exposed is right. Big time. Right. And as they service agreement where it's like. Oh, wait, you know, it didn't say that today. Are you talking about what the service agreement said yesterday? You know, that we, we can, we can use all your stuff in our training, our AI. That was yesterday.

[B]

Today it's different.

[A]

Now it's different. Today we made it much more generic. Much like, how can they. The company never ceases to amaze me. And yet we're. We're like zombies, you know, still tied to the, you know, Adobe and I, that was the joke. We are Adobe Zombies now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we're following it and I hate that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean let's, let's, let's be honest here. Dolby doesn't really care about designers. No, we are their customer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We're, we're their dollar signs. They're not here to do us any favors.

[B]

No.

[A]

They are just marketing to us and make us believe this. And it's a little sad, you know, when, when you know, you put so much into, you put so much investment into a brand. You know, like we do with Apple. Right. I, I've been a lifelong Apple person since Apple guy, since, you know, my first computer and you put so much into it and imagine just waking up, you know, finding that video that they were like, oh, that Moss guy, what an idiot. We fooled him all these years.

[B]

Like I kind of taking his money.

[A]

I kind of feel like that's what happened here. So Adobe kind of like messed us up in this sense big time.

[B]

Yeah. What happened though?

[A]

Well, finally they got, you know, there's some retribution and affinity. His is basically opened up their doors and like here, here you go guys. You can use our product for free. Wow. Yeah. And I mean again, there was an instant jump of millions, apparently million people.

[B]

In the first week.

[A]

Right. Just gone. Just like that. Right. And again, it is comparable software. It's, it's a little different in, than Adobe, but it's like, it's neat because in now one piece of software, you have Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign and you can toggle between them. Right. Which is kind of a neat. It's a neat tool. Yeah, it is a really neat tool and it is professional grade software. So by them making this jump, you know, they really took, you know, a big kick, you know, to, to Adobe's ass. Yeah. And then it's funny because this wasn't like genius idea. Okay. This is. Okay, so unfortunately, you know, the bigger picture, canva bought affinity. Okay. And we'll talk about canva, unfortunately. But the thing is this was an Adobe play that Adobe did years ago. Okay. Adobe back, back, back like 20 years ago. Okay. Before InDesign was InDesign. Right. Quark Express was the piece, you know, it was the layout software. I love Quark Express. That's what I learned.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Remember, and then PageMaker too. But okay, we won't go too far back, but QuarkXPress was the platform. Okay. And you would then use things that you built in Illustrator and Photoshop and you'd put them in QuarkXPress and do your layouts. Yeah, right. And I loved Quark. It was great. Well, Adobe decided to start giving away InDesign for free. I mean, you already have Photoshop and Illustrator, so why wouldn't you, you know, not buy the next version of Quark and just learn InDesign? Because hey, it's here for free, guys. Just do it. Well, what happened? 20 years later, Quark was gone. Everybody has completely embraced InDesign is not, is not better than Quark was, but they gave it away. So now by canva doing this, okay, they're giving away Affinity, now they're giving it away for free. So you can now use Create, you know, whatever you want for free. And again, there's no short term game for this. They're going to lose money for this in the short term, but long term, they're going to start training designers at a young age. They are going to, you know, like this is going to be embraced in the school system.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So why wouldn't they?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Adobe really dropped the ball with that kind of.

[A]

Because they didn't care.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Again, this is where it's like they started exposing themselves. They started showing that they don't care about students. They were about dollars and cents. They weren't giving breaks to the schools like they should have and they weren't like integrating. Listen, Adobe could have really saved themselves if they just gave the software to schools to teach their kids for free. Well, when those K graduate, they're going to go buy Photoshop themselves.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Buy Ill. But they didn't do that. No. So, and now affinity did. And I think that is their long term plan. I think their long term plan, which I'm totally okay with. Yeah, that's great.

[B]

A smart move.

[A]

It is a smart move. But you know, I think above anything else, I think the fun episodes that we had and you know, the comments and the conversations that were both good and bad. Okay. Were when we would challenge designer mindsets. And I don't think any episode. We had a series, we did two or three back to back about designer mindset versus artist mindset. Oh, right, right. And to be clear, we weren't dissing anybody.

[B]

No.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We never do. And Canadians, we never do that.

[A]

Well, and especially because we have nothing but respect for artists.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Okay. We, we, if anything, we envy. Yeah. You know, artists, we have artists that are, you know, friends, dear friends. Right. And again, we love art everywhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the whole thing, the real. There is a huge difference between how designers think and how artists think. Everything from, you know, like, artists focus on self expression and it's very inward where designers focus on the end user and it's all about somebody else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's nothing wrong with actually embracing these differences, but that episode was really all about, you know, knowing, okay, when you're acting like an artist versus, you know, or when you should be acting like a designer. So when you take something that a customer tells you, well, listen, don't. Don't be the fragile artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not dissing you. Yeah, yeah, they're dissing what you're working on, and it's not achieving the end goal. So you have to step back and start thinking like a designer. Yes. So, I mean, again, the episode was very clear and we had a lot of people appreciate it, but of course, there were some people that were like, oh, you guys trying to label people. And it's just like, well, you just can't win with some people.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It was hilarious. Right?

[B]

It's pretty fundamentally different. Like an artist works for himself or herself.

[A]

Yep, yep, right, yep, yep.

[B]

And a designer works for the client. Like, it doesn't mean if I love something and the client doesn't, then it's not.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

But if it's art, if you don't like it, well, then fuck you.

[A]

That's so true. And here's the thing. It wasn't saying that there wasn't an art component to what we do. Of course, there with designers, we make things look good for a living.

[B]

All started as artists. I would guarantee good drawing as a kid.

[A]

Absolutely right. But again, you know, we, you know, those artists who went into a designer future are people who actually wanted to make a living where the other ones were okay with starving. So. But needless to say, that episode, you know, the few episodes there were both appreciated and some people were pretty like, oh, you know, label my.

[B]

That's funny. Oh, my God.

[A]

You know, and again, you know, I, I harp on this a lot, of course, but, you know, in light of all this being, you know, all these AI designers being exposed, all these fiber designers being exposed, all this, this, you know, low budget shit being exposed, you know, the main difference between, you know, the. Well, other than the end result, of course, is the strategy behind it. And I'm always harp how we need to be more problem solvers. We need to be more strategic designers. Strategic designers make money, okay? They never have to worry about finding customers because again, they're actually helping solve customer problems. They make customers Money. Okay. So customers keep returning to them where these other designers who are just making things look pretty and just focusing on being decorators, they're just costing the customer money. They're not getting them results. Okay. Because trust me, okay, Pretty doesn't get results. No. The strategy behind pretty gets those results. So again, this. This was a huge topic that, you know, we would come back a lot in episodes and in conversations and in comments about, you know, about how we need to change our mindset. Okay. And not us. We've been doing this forever. But new designers are. Are often unaware that it's more of a. A strategic mindset that they need to have in place.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can obviously create, you can design, you can make good, but you need to embrace the problem solving side. You need to embrace the strategic side of it. Understand, you know, at a deeper level what the problems the company has.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What can you do to help them overcome these problems? How can you people forget that businesses are having the exact same struggles that designers do? Yeah. It's a tough world for everybody right now. Okay. And it's a very competitive market. So they're. Are they hiring you to make something look pretty or are they hiring you to help them achieve a goal and make some money?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

To pay your. Sorry.

[B]

Yes, yes, that's absolutely true.

[A]

So that was a big theme that, you know, kept on coming back, that it was just like, you know what? We got to elevate our game. Designers need to elevate and they need to. To start thinking more, being more strategic in what they do in their process and embracing that kind of thinking. Because that is what. Because then this way, okay, if you are a strategic designer, no matter what happens with tech, no matter what happens with AI or any other design software out there, okay. You will always have a place serving customers. If you can go back and help them make money by solving problems. Yeah. You're not gonna go make. You're not gonna help make money just by making things look good.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the one. That's the. The one part of the three part series of being a designer, right? Yeah, absolutely. Design is just the second part. It's the strategy and everything else.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's to separate you from everybody.

[A]

It's so true. Right? It's so true. People always focus on the end result.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But really that end result is just what people see. It's what leads up to that end result. That is the value in what we do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, big time. I know this sounds like, you know, we we're dissing on this year, but I actually kind of think it was a good year for designers, to be honest.

[B]

I think it was a good year. Yeah, totally. I, I think, think, I think you're right. I think there's a lot of people got called out. There was a lot of mistakes, but what do we do? We always learn from our mistake.

[A]

Well, you're supposed to, right?

[B]

This is what is. Yes, I'm pretty sure Jaguar and, and.

[A]

There'S no, there's no, there's no learning lesson there.

[B]

Well, HBO is probably not going to change his logos anymore, so, you know.

[A]

Give him another year, Sean. Give him another year and another acquisition. Yeah, yeah, but you're right, it was a lot of, in my opinion, it was a good year for design because a lot of shit got called out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which I'm happy about. Shortcuts got called out. You know, Fiverr, like the, to begin with. Fiverr was a shitty company to begin with. Okay. By undercutting design, you want to talk about commoditizing design, but now what are they doing? They're basically becoming an AI first company. They're, they're not going to even need designers anymore. They're cutting their own people out that help build that product. This just proves that, you know, like the commodity, the commoditized side of this business, Commod designed, you know, it was a temporary thing. It's here, it's gone. You don't want those customers. And I'm glad that all that got, got called out. Yeah. You know, thinking, you know, clearly, concisely, that was focused on this year. Okay. Big brand fuck ups. I think it was so obvious what not to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so hopefully next year and you know, and, and even with AI, everybody was so scared at the beginning of the year about ar, but AI. But now at the end of the year, I think it's more clear than ever that, you know, it's only a tool and it is not perfect. It's great, but it's far from perfect. And again, it's only as good of a tool as the person who's using it. Yes, right. Yes. As good as the it gives you is equally as bad.

[B]

Yeah, this is true. This is true.

[A]

So, so I'm kind of think that this is a big plus year for designers, to be honest. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of excited for what next year brings, actually.

[B]

What are your predictions for 2020? Do you have?

[A]

You know, I, I do think that AI integration is just going to Become second nature.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think everybody get better and better and better. It is. It's going to get better and better, but people are going to finally figure out how to integrate it and use it in their platforms, I think so. I do think that, you know, everybody who embraces, you know, the strategy side of the business is going to continue to grow, flourish, get deeper. Those are the people that are going to be using AI. Those are the people that are going to be using it in their process. I actually think that, you know, we're coming full circle and the human connection is going to be a big part of next year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I predict anyway. Even more so.

[B]

People are going to kind of come full circle around.

[A]

I do, I think I, I, you know, as great as the world isn't as broad as it is, I think people are also going to start looking more local again to do business with people locally. I think people are going to be overwhelmed with digital. I think people are going to want to get connected to humans again. Right. Get a little bit more analog. So I do think that networking is going to be a huge thing next year. I do, I do. You know, hey, we've already signed up. We're going back to Creative South.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay. So that's a thing. I'm headed to New York in March for James. Victoria's holding an event there. So I'm gonna go and, and check out that. And hang out with him and who knows whatever else we've got planned next year. Yeah, there's a couple, there's a couple exciting things happening, so in person things. So. Yeah, yeah, I, I think that's going to be the big thing for 2026.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

But 2025, I, I can't say was a bad year, I think. No, A lot of ups. Yeah. But it was a great year.

[B]

But again with fuck ups. Teach us a lot of good things.

[A]

Right, right, Absolutely.

[B]

But it was a good year.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[B]

So. Yes.

[A]

Cool, dude. Wow. Well, with that being said, everybody, thank you for listening all year and putting up with our bad jokes and, and, you know, our comments and everything else.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

And, you know, stick around because we got a lot of stuff still planned for the upcoming years.

[B]

Sure, that's right. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think we're going to do a topless version of this. Oh. Just for you youtubers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just kidding. We're not gonna do that. We wouldn't do that to you guys.

[A]

Amazing. All right, everybody, my name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry and Merry Christmas.