5 Tough Client Types Graphic Designers will Face and How to Handle Them Like a Pro

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer
Episode Title: 5 Tough Client Types Graphic Designers will Face and How to Handle Them Like a Pro
Release Date: January 14, 2025
Host: Massimo and John (The Angry Designer Podcast)

---

Introduction

In Episode 5 of The Angry Designer, hosts Massimo and John delve into the challenging landscape of client relationships that graphic designers often navigate. Titled "5 Tough Client Types Graphic Designers will Face and How to Handle Them Like a Pro", this episode serves as an "ultimate Designer therapy session," providing listeners with strategies to manage difficult clients while maintaining professionalism and protecting their creative integrity.

Overview of Evil Client Types

Massimo and John categorize particularly troublesome clients as "evil clients," distinguishing them from generally difficult but manageable clients. These evil clients exhibit behaviors such as meanness, manipulation, condescension, and an impossible demand for satisfaction. The hosts emphasize that while not all clients are problematic, encountering these extreme types can significantly impact a designer's well-being and project outcomes.

Detailed Discussion of Each Client Type

1. Passive-Aggressive Clients ([11:20] - [16:28])

Characteristics:

• Vague Criticism: Clients provide feedback wrapped in politeness, making it unclear what exactly needs improvement.
• Backhanded Compliments: Statements like "This isn't quite what I was expecting" without specifying the desired changes.

Handling Strategies:

• Stay Calm: Maintain composure to avoid escalating tensions.
• Document Everything: Keep detailed records of all communications to reference specific feedback.
• Redirect with Specific Questions: Ask for clarifications such as, "Can you provide an example of what you're looking for?" ([12:24] A).

Notable Quote:
"These are the ones I hate the most." ([11:20] A)

2. Blame Shifters ([13:00] - [15:21])

Characteristics:

• Avoiding Responsibility: They shift blame onto the designer or agency, regardless of who is at fault.
• Constant Criticism: Regularly finding faults with delivered work and denying any prior agreements.

Handling Strategies:

• Protect Yourself with Contracts: Ensure all project details and agreements are clearly outlined in writing.
• Maintain a Paper Trail: Save all emails and correspondence to counteract false claims.
• Respond with Facts: Use documented evidence to address misplaced blame ([14:00] A).

Notable Quote:
"They always want to blame us, even if it's not our fault." ([13:23] A)

3. The Condescending Know-It-Alls ([15:21] - [17:12])

Characteristics:

• Undermining Expertise: Clients belittle the designer's skills, often suggesting that their intern could perform the tasks.
• Micromanagement: Attempt to control every aspect of the design process without valuing professional input.

Handling Strategies:

• Assert Your Expertise: Clearly communicate your knowledge and experience from the outset.
• Ask Clarifying Questions: Expose gaps in their understanding by requesting detailed explanations ([16:28] A).
• Pick Your Battles: Decide when to stand firm and when to accommodate minor requests without compromising quality.

Notable Quote:
"You are the expert, so trust my process." ([15:43] A)

4. Gaslighters ([17:12] - [18:59])

Characteristics:

• Rewriting History: Deny previous approvals or agreements to justify changing project demands.
• Manipulative Feedback: Claim that certain aspects were never approved, despite documented approvals.

Handling Strategies:

• Stick to the Facts: Rely on written documentation to counteract false narratives.
• Professional Responses: Maintain a calm and professional demeanor to avoid escalating conflicts.
• Avoid Verbal Agreements: Prefer written communications to ensure all agreements are traceable ([18:27] A).

Notable Quote:
"They deny approvals just to change their demands regularly." ([17:23] A)

5. The Disturbers/Fire Starters ([19:07] - [22:14])

Characteristics:

• Poor Planning: Frequently make last-minute requests, pushing unrealistic deadlines without prior notice.
• Creating Emergencies: Expect designers to accommodate urgent changes without additional compensation.

Handling Strategies:

• Set Boundaries: Clearly define acceptable working hours and turnaround times.
• Push Back on Unreasonable Requests: Communicate the impact of unrealistic deadlines and negotiate feasible timelines.
• Teach Them a Lesson: Encourage better planning by enforcing policies on rush orders ([19:14] B).

Notable Quote:
"They expect miracles at the last minute because of their poor planning." ([19:58] A)

Survival Tips to Protect Yourself

Massimo and John provide actionable strategies to manage these difficult clients effectively:

1. Contracts and Scope of Work:

   • Clearly outline all project details and expectations in written agreements.
   • Use Statements of Work (SOWs) to define deliverables and responsibilities.

2. Document Everything:

   • Save all emails and communications.
   • Keep detailed records to reference in case of disputes ([32:44] A).

3. Close the Loop:

   • Summarize meetings and calls in follow-up emails to ensure mutual understanding.
   • Request acknowledgment from clients to confirm agreements and decisions ([33:00] A).

4. Stay Professional and Calm:

   • Maintain composure even when clients are difficult.
   • Avoid defensive language and focus on solutions rather than blame ([34:55] A).

5. Avoid Emotional Responses:

   • Do not vent frustrations in communications.
   • Refrain from sending impassioned or unprofessional emails that could harm your reputation ([35:20] B).

6. Set Clear Boundaries:

   • Define working hours and response times.
   • Be firm in rejecting unreasonable deadlines or scope changes without proper compensation ([20:04] A).

7. Seek Support:

   • Share experiences with fellow designers for validation and advice.
   • Engage in the Anger Management for Designers newsletter for ongoing tips and support.

Notable Quote:
"Cover your ass with every email, no matter how small." ([33:00] A)

Therapy Session Insights

The episode transitions into a therapeutic discussion where Massimo and John express their frustrations with these client types, providing listeners with a sense of validation and camaraderie. They encourage designers to recognize that encountering such clients is a common experience and emphasize the importance of not letting these interactions define one's career.

Notable Quotes:
"These people are not a reflection of your design career." ([41:21] A)
"Don't let these shitty clients hinder you from having the best design career." ([37:18] A)

Conclusion and Actionable Takeaways

Massimo and John wrap up the episode by reinforcing the key strategies for managing difficult clients. They stress the importance of maintaining professionalism, protecting oneself through meticulous documentation, and setting firm boundaries. The hosts remind designers that while encountering evil clients can be challenging, these experiences are temporary and offer valuable lessons for future interactions.

Final Quotes:
"These are temporary roadblocks; they don't define your career." ([36:35] A)
"Survivors aren't just enough; thrive and own your creative journey." ([32:20] A)

Call to Action:
Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the Anger Management for Designers newsletter for weekly tips on thriving in their creative careers. The podcast also invites listeners to connect via YouTube and Instagram for additional support and community engagement.

---

Key Takeaways

• Identify Client Types: Recognize the behaviors of passive-aggressive clients, blame shifters, condescending know-it-alls, gaslighters, and disturbers/fire starters.
• Protect Yourself: Use contracts, detailed documentation, and clear communication to safeguard against manipulative behaviors.
• Maintain Professionalism: Stay calm, avoid defensive language, and focus on solutions to manage conflicts effectively.
• Set Boundaries: Define clear working parameters to prevent burnout and ensure respectful client interactions.
• Seek Support: Leverage community resources and platforms to share experiences and strategies with fellow designers.

---

By addressing these challenging client types with strategic approaches, The Angry Designer empowers graphic designers to navigate complex client relationships, ensuring they can charge what they're worth and build rewarding, sustainable careers without succumbing to burnout.

Transcript

[A]

There's so many times where we have to bite our tongues. So this is what I'd like to refer to as the ultimate Designer therapy session. There's a lot that we want to say, but we never do. So this is the episode where we can. Okay. You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast, where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry bull and share it takes to charge what you're worth and build badass, rewarding careers. Not all clients are created equal. Some are a joy to work with, and others, yeah, they're frustrating. But then there are the evil ones. You know the type I'm talking about? They're mean, they're manipulative, they're condescending. They're just impossible to please, as though they've got it out for you. But you still have to do what you're told because they're part of a bigger team, a bigger project, or a deal that you just can't walk away from. In this episode of the Angry Designer, we're diving into the underworld of client chaos. We're going to be talking about the evil clients, the most insidious types of evil clients, and why the way they act, they do, and how to protect yourself while keeping the peace. And we're going to provide the ultimate therapy session, saying what you wish you could say. And don't forget to sign up for our Anger Management for Designers newsletter. It's a newsletter for graphic designers looking to stay sane, stay inspired, and get paid what they're worth. Now let's take on the worst of the worst. Broken paddle.

[B]

Broken paddle.

[A]

All right, we're going back to our Canadian roots here. Trying something nice.

[B]

Smell that?

[A]

Not yet. It's. But you know what? I got worried because it was. They were. It was referred as artisan. Artisanal. Artisanal whiskey. That's just scary.

[B]

That is.

[A]

I don't know. Like, should you be fucking with whiskey to call it Occasional sugar. I know it is. It does smell sweet. It doesn't say much. Broken paddle is kind of cool. I don't know if you guys can see this label, but it actually has a broken paddle on there, which I thought was kind of nice. And it was like, you can go kind of see through it and then looking through it. It's got, like, all the lakes up there. It talks about where it comes from. Climate neutral, 1% for the planet. Made by your. Makes your mother proud.

[B]

That's what it says right there.

[A]

Makes your mother. I don't know if my mom would be proud that I'm drinking. But, you know, but through that idea.

[B]

Let's try.

[A]

All right, let's try this. Well, it's very soft.

[B]

It's very soft.

[A]

Like, it's just. It's like I just had a sip of water with like a little bit of a chaser. I know. Like, it's. It's not bad. And, you know, the funny thing is sweet. You can taste the sweet aftertaste.

[B]

Aftertaste, right. Yes.

[A]

This is. You know, when we started this journey with whiskey, this would have been ideal because it's funny, when we started this, we thought that if it was a strong tasting whiskey, it wasn't good. A strong scotch, a strong bourbon, and we were looking for these light things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now that we've gone through this journey and we've sampled, I don't know, 2, 300. How many episodes are we at? Right. 200 plus. Now it's like you want that, and it sounds so cheesy, but you want that journey of flavor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And now when you. When you get something like this, that's really weak.

[B]

We're really mild.

[A]

Like, this is. This is something you could recommend to somebody if they're just getting into, you know, like whiskey or. Or. Or, you know, something like that. Just because again, it's so mild. It's not bad. It just.

[B]

It's not terrible.

[A]

Nothing to it, though.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It's not funny.

[B]

It's odd. There's no burn. There's no. It's just.

[A]

No, it's. It's just I can taste a little bit in the after.

[B]

Gentle.

[A]

Yeah, it's gentle. A gentle whiskey.

[B]

It's a gentle. It's a. Yeah, it's kind of like a river. Northern. Northern Ontario, you know, it's just a gentle.

[A]

Just a nice babbling brook, you know? No, no. Like rapids or anything.

[B]

Nothing. Yeah, nothing challenging. Yeah.

[A]

So if you guys are just getting into this journey and you want something light and easy. Broken paddle. This artisanal whiskey, honestly, it's ideal for that and I'd recommend it to somebody just getting into this. It's not bad by any means, I think. I think it's just now I need a little bit more excitement in my life.

[B]

Well, you know, basically, we are the fight club of whiskey.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We need to be punched right in the face.

[A]

Yes. What a segue to that because. Because we didn't even know what I was doing. We. It was a good one because let me tell you, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it was the Month of December and holidays and the stress of like, you know, Christmas presents. But, man, I feel like with several customers punching us. Not in the face.

[B]

Yeah, like in the groin.

[A]

In the groin. Like in the balls. It was just. It. There was something about this past little while. It's just there was just like the asshole customers came out, you know, And I'm not talking about, like, it's one thing to have, you know, a shitty customer situation or have a customer, you know, kind of red flags, take advantage. But I'm talking like these were just jerks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, the.

[B]

Sometimes the one. There. A couple of customers in one. One guy is kind of a dick, but I don't think the other one was.

[A]

I don't know, the ones that I had to intervene on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's two of them that were total.

[B]

Those gu.

[A]

And I have no idea what got into them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're, you know, and it's just. It's unfortunate, you know, because again, in. So this doesn't always happen with the smaller customers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Never.

[A]

Generally when you have that relationship with a. A small, you know, partner customer, it's okay. You're. You're in, out. Right. They might get a little testy. They might push the line a little bit, but it's not like, you know, you got red flags that you have to fire them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're talking situation like, this is big organizations that you're dealing often with multiple people in that organization. Right. And although you might have a great relationship with two, three, four people, there'll be that one or that two that will come in and they will just. They're cut from a different cloth, you know, And. And I mean, again. And I've experienced these always. Every time you deal with a big corporate client.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have big teams that you work with, there tends to be, you know, one or two just. They're just pure. No.

[B]

Yes. Absolute evil.

[A]

The evil customers. Right. And evil. And.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's like what is going on.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And that's what we're here to talk to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're gonna share our. Our stories. You know, why they're like this and just what the fuck's been going on? Like, honestly? Because it's just. It's. And. And I don't know why. Because it's like people are all. Well, no, I mean, there's a couple reasons. Right. Like, you know, some of them, of course, you know, you know, they're insecure. You know, they're insecure in abilities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. One in particular that we talked about. I don't even think they're qualified to be on the marketing team, but they check a box. Right, right. And. And that box could be something political. That box can be like. They're just a figurehead to fill a spot, you know, to do some sort of HR that. It's like. Yep. We. We need a person like that to check our box. We need someone with this experience or this ethnic or that, you know, sexuality. And it's. That's unfortunate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because again, the. The. The business side of me is like, you know, best person for the job. Right. Best. And again. And it's not always a dude, you know, in more cases or not. I find in our field, you know, women seem to excel quite a bit. Quite a bit, yeah. Wow, that sounds really bad, but.

[B]

No, it's true.

[A]

It's right. It is, it is. I think I've dealt with more women than men, but I'm not even talking about putting a woman in the world to check the box. I'm just talking about.

[B]

No, it's beyond that.

[A]

Beyond that. The world's gone a little kooky lately. And. And so, you know, in situations, it's like, it's. It's. You don't even know why they're there. So they're insecure. So, you know, maybe for whatever reason, they're scared and it's showing up as. Just kind of do as I say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I have no.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe they're feeling themselves a little too much kind of thing, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you're special. You know, there is that kind of thing. There's a lot of. There's a lot of precious people out there. Right, right.

[A]

None of our listeners, of course, but no, you're right. You know, and in that sense. And then in those cases, you know, when. When they act all condesce. Yes. They probably think that that's the sign of leadership.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which, again, shows the inexperienced side of what they're capable of doing.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Right. Or the capabilities.

[B]

Right. And exactly. Like you said, the insecure part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, you know, if you're out of your depth. So these people, you know, they're going to react accordingly when they're challenged on. On whatever they believe is. Is what's going down with this project. Right.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you've got the corporate climbers.

[B]

You like those ones.

[A]

Absolutely. And then these are the people that are just like, you know, do as I say. I'm the boss. It's my show. It's the ME show. But those are the ones you worry about because they're also the very first ones to turn on you.

[B]

Yeah, they'll turn on you. But also the flip side to that is they don't stay in that position for very long.

[A]

They don't. You're right. Right.

[B]

They're usually, they're very transient in that nature, which is good. But that year and a half throughout.

[A]

That place, they're there to make you up. Oh God. I think everybody's kind of experienced one of.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yes. And then, you know, and then you will get some people, whether this is part of it or not, that they get, you know, pressure from above in the organization. Right. And they just don't know how to handle it. We know somebody else like that in the organization and you know, we're not talking micromanaging and stuff like that. It's just like, holy, I'm getting it from my boss so now I'm going to give it to you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and it's just like, it's, it's like that Human Centipede thing. You know, everybody's just connected to somebody else's. But you know, apparently it's a thing. It's a movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

So.

[A]

So it's like we know they exist and. Dude. And it's just, honestly this, I feel like this past week we've, we've checked the box.

[B]

We hit a lot of that and.

[A]

I don't understand why. Right. But what, okay, so what we've done, we did a couple things. Right. And so, so we're going to start off by breaking down what some of these people are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And, and then talking about how to actually deal with these kind of people. People. Right. For example. Right. This one everybody knows. Passive aggressive customer. Right. And these are the people that, you know, they're masters of vague criticism and backhanded follow ups. Right. Where it's like, it's almost like dissing you in a complimentary way. You know, just like, you know, just circling back to see if you've made any progress on this. Right. Or, or we assumed you'd deliver by now, but you know, or, or let's just revis. It's not quite there. You know, it's just like I wish these people would just say it the way it is instead of trying to, to sandwich.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like what you're feeling in some sort of, you know, backhanded compliment. Because it really. These are the ones I hate the most.

[B]

Those are, those are the worst. I Just had an experience with something like that, too. It's like, it's just scope creep beyond all imaginable. Like, you just, like, everything was just not right. That's not what I want. That's not what I want. Finally, I was like, can you give me an example of what it is you're looking for?

[A]

I know where this is going.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And.

[B]

And then finally he just stuck. It was a shit job. Like, it looked terrible, but it was what he was looking. You know what I mean? It was kind of like, okay, I have a visual confirmation of what it is he's asking.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Actually, I thought you were gonna say he was gonna be like, well, you're the designer. You should know. Because I've had that happen to me.

[B]

Oh, yes. O God, that's the worst. You're the designer. You should.

[A]

You should know. So. So when it comes to the passive aggressive customer. Okay. The best way to deal with them is obviously stay calm.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Y.

[A]

Document everything because they tend to forget a lot. Okay. And redirect their comments with specific questions. Exactly. Like you just did. Right. Can you clarify what's not working? Don't tell me it's not what you envisioned.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What did you envision? Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't help me if I'm guessing it's right.

[B]

This is the thing, too. It's like, I. I want to get out of this.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Right. I would like to. And I want you to be happy with what it is that I'm going to be giving you. So help me help.

[A]

Help me help you, buddy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Another one. The blame shifter. And these ones you have to be careful about. Right. So, okay. The reason why these people are horrible is because they're always looking for someone else to blame because they're never at fault. Okay. And unfortunately, because we're the agency, one thing I've learned is it's always the agency's fault.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even if it's not. Okay. So, you know, when anything goes wrong in the organization, just blame the agency. Okay.

[B]

How many times have you seen the underside of a bus?

[A]

Right. Oh, my God.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Every day I wait for the bus on my back and just wait for it to. So, you know, we're talking like, we missed the launch deadline because the designer didn't deliver on time. Right. Or. Or the designer misunderstood the brief, even though the brief was only two sentences long. Okay. Or I'm not sure why they made that design choice. It's not what we wanted. But again, you know, what was missing in these Types of comments. Right. They're blaming up, they're talking upward.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Blaming, you know, us for the actions that happened before.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So, you know, in this situation, you know, the way that the best way to deal with these people. Right. Is you know, you protect yourself with contracts, sows. Right. Make sure you have a clear brief with everything, you know, like just spelt out, even if it has to be in point form. Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then this way you can counter blame anything with the facts.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That you have.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because again, many times when people throw us under the bus and they come, I'll hear from somebody else like, hey, what happened? I'm like, hey, dude, I'm looking at the email. Yeah, we delivered what we were supposed to. And then again, it gets us out of jail.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because they're like, you're right. And they know. Because you know what those people, although they might get you the first or second time, after a while, there's a. There seems to be repetition in their actions.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And people inside the organization recognize that. So you just got to like, you know, get, get over that little bit of a rainstorm or, or whether those waves or whatever. Right. Just make sure everything you have in situations like this, you know, are written down and all the decisions are made. You know, you keep that email threads, you know, conversations, everything. Even if, even if it's a phone conversation, you make follow up. Okay. With an email outlining what.

[B]

What it was.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Right. Cover your ass in this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Big time. Another, the condescending know it all. Oh, these are the people that. They act like they hired you to execute their ideas, but not for your expertise. Okay. More out of convenience because you're not the expert, they are.

[B]

Okay, so they're using you as the tool. Is that what it is?

[A]

Absolutely. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, kind of like comments like, you know, you probably didn't know this, but visuals in our, in our industry need to be professional. Like, you. Okay. Like screw or this feels like something my intern could have done. Right. And again, it's just like. But then you see what they give you and it looks like my 5 year old did it. Okay. You know, or of course the. Oh, hey, I've seen this on Canva. Can you recreate this? Like, you know, these are the people that they try to, you know, to kind of exuberate or, or instill their leadership, you know, by putting you down. Right, okay. And bullies in, in making themselves feel better. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So you know, the way to get around people like this or the way to deal with these.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Is you need to put your expertise with confidence up front. Okay. You need to ask clarifying questions to expose the gaps in the. That they think they know when they're telling you. How many times have we had people be like, oh, yeah, I know the Adobe apps. Yes. I. I've created logos in Adobe Photoshop all the time. And it's like, you obviously don't know it because nobody creates logos in Photoshop, idiots. You know, And I hear this, right? So you have to basically assert your expertise, your knowledge, and unfortunately pick your battles in these cases. Right. But again, don't sit back and take it.

[B]

It. Yeah.

[A]

Right. You just got to make sure you elevate that you are the expert in this case.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, God, this one, I hate the gaslighter. Right? And again, these ones, you know, they're the worst because apparently they rewrite history on a regular basis.

[B]

Okay, I never said that. Yeah, I never said that.

[A]

They deny approvals agreements just. Just to, you know, make up for their. Their changing demands on a regular basis. Right? These are the people. Like, I never said I like that design. Or we didn't agree that timeline or. Or not what I expected. Even though they approve the mockups. Okay. For this case, we've actually fired a couple customers. Right? Oh, website projects, too. Just like. It's just like, dude, you've approved this whole process. You want to go back? We're billing you for this, right? I. These people, because these are snively, like, I just. They drive me nuts. So you deal with these people by sticking to the facts. Okay? So track every conversation. Keep your responses professional. You know, avoid escalating the drama. Okay. And cover your ass. Okay. Make sure, again, everything you have is in writing. Okay. I can't stress that enough. Never take phone calls from these people. Or. Sorry. You can take the phone calls, get.

[B]

On a video chat record.

[A]

Yes. And hit record. Right. And you just tell them you're recording it so you don't miss anything in the conversation. Okay. And then follow up with an email outlining exactly what they asked for. Okay. Because unfortunately, and this sounds horrible that we have to do this.

[B]

I know, it is terrible.

[A]

These kind of people, though, make doing this kind of stuff like, a necessity. You have to do this, all right?

[B]

And when you get burned, boy, oh, boy, you realize that how important a paper trail is.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then this one, you know, I call the disturber. But really, you know, maybe they're the fire starter. Okay.

[B]

I Like it.

[A]

So these are the people. Both are good. Both are really good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Disturber. Fire starter. Depends how bad they smell. But again, they. They turn their shitty ass planning and time management into your emergency. Yes, always. Okay. They expect miracles at the last minute. They're the ones that will call you up right before close or in the middle of the night and be like, oh, something came up. And the reality is it didn't come up. They. They just. They up. They. They didn't tell you two weeks ago and they realized it was tomorrow. Right. You know, and it's always like, oh, we need this by tomorrow. Sorry for the late notice. Or their. Our CEO needs this. Can you put it together quickly? But the reality is very rarely does that actually happen. It's usually, you know, it's usually. It's usually due to their piss poor planning.

[B]

Planning, yeah.

[A]

Absolutely. Right. So in situations like this, you know, you deal with these kinds of people by, by setting boundaries.

[B]

Y.

[A]

Okay. You set boundaries, you know, if you have to. You know, and I. I'm not a fan of charging for rush time. Right. I'm not. You know, because if we can do it, we can do it. But in a situation like this, somebody like this has to be taught a lesson. And you have to have. They have to have that fear that they need to be more organized than they are and they can't drop their, you know, shitty ass planning on you all the time. Right.

[B]

Y.

[A]

So again, and most importantly, you can't be scared to push back on unrealistic deadlines.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because it's not fair to you.

[B]

No.

[A]

And as it is, our job is stressful enough. Okay. And these are the ones who actually. They're evil. They're not. They're evil. Okay. I don't mind having, you know, the occasional shitty customer situation. It happens. But these people, honestly, they're the ones that are only in it for themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These. Let's be straight. These are not. Not the customers for life.

[B]

No.

[A]

These are not the customers that will take you to the next job.

[B]

No.

[A]

These are not the customers that you have to go above and beyond for because they don't give a shit. Nope. All you need to do is weather this storm, just like you said, until they move on to the next job, next position, and you just got to cover your ass and make sure that the company in a hole knows you are clean, you're good, you're. You know, they can rely on you. And it was that individual that was the issue.

[B]

Yeah. And we know people like this, that, that have never changed. It's always been a fire ever since they. They came on board.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

With clients, like, even in different positions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Right. Kind of like, they'll never change. So it's. It's a. It's a very.

[A]

It's funny.

[B]

Difficult.

[A]

We had a bad customer. He was the nicest guy.

[B]

He was an amazing guy, but he.

[A]

Was like every one of these. He was a disturber. He was always last minute, always last minute. It. Everything was. And he was unorganized, but he loved us, and he actually did bring us along. But everywhere he did, and, you know.

[B]

It was the same.

[A]

It was the same.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And finally we ended up kind of severing.

[A]

I'm sorry, man. Yeah. It didn't work.

[B]

Which is too bad, because. And I think because he was such a nice guy, he got away with a lot of that, but he was super disorganized.

[A]

Yeah. And. And bad time management, and it's just. And we. We kept him organized.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because we were. We had a good system. We, you know, we knew what we were capable of doing, the timelines that we needed to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So we. We kept him organized, but in the end, not even that helped. So. So with all this, I'm sure we've heard a million different things. Okay. And. And with every one of those things, there's so many times where we have to bite our tongues. Okay, so this is what I'd like to refer to as the ultimate designer therapy session. Okay. There's a lot that we want to say, but we never do. So this is the episode where we can. Okay. And just so you guys feel vindicated. Okay. I'm gonna need a little bit more of a drink for this one. Right. Just because I got a good list here. And I think this is. I think this might make a couple of people kind of realize, you know, this stuff is really sweet, Sean.

[B]

It's. I. I'm not a big fan.

[A]

No, it's a little too sweet.

[B]

It's too. It's got this peculiar aftertaste to it.

[A]

It's all sweet. It's. It's very caramelly.

[B]

Yes. I feel like my blood sugar levels spiked.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Ultimate design therapy session.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So many times you get, you know, responses and. Which are, you know, ambiguous, wrapped in politeness. Okay, so you, you know, you hear comments like, this isn't quite what I was expecting. And, you know, you want to say, neither was I when I took this project on. Okay. Or. Or, you know, if they say, I thought we were on the same page, Sean, you know, you know, inside you're like, I'm on chapter 10, and you're still on the back cover. Okay, so like, dude, stop. You know, or. Or, you know, you. You always hear about. It's. It's almost there, right? And it's like, yeah, almost there. It doesn't pay the bills. Let's define where the hell there is.

[B]

Yes. For God's sake, tell me where we're going with this.

[A]

Or. Or. Or can you try something different? Which just kind of makes us want to be like, sure, but can you try giving me some direction for a channel? Please? Let me know where the hell you want to go with this. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Again, this is when it's always wrapped in this unknown. And whether they're the evil customers or whether they're just the clueless customers. Okay. It's trying to understand where the hell they. That. That unknown is. Yeah, man, that would solve so many. And it's.

[B]

And it's usually followed up by, I'll know it when I see it. Well, how many things do I got to do to get there? Jesus.

[A]

All right, all right. Dismissals disguised as feedback. Okay, so this is when the evil person just wants just, you know, Wants what? Wants you to do what they say. And. And. And they're like, just, just, just, just stick to what I asked for. And you know, and we've had that from these evil.

[B]

Stick to what I. What I've asked what we asked for.

[A]

Right. And again, the response that we want to say is like, you know, news flash. What you asked for is terrible. But. Okay. And it's so. It's like, they have to trust us in some situations. We can see this for, you know, when your title is three sentences long. It's not going to look good, for God's sake.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And get those starbursts out of there.

[A]

Or. Or it's a good start, but we have a ways to go.

[B]

Oh, geez.

[A]

Right? And that.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's where you're like, you know, you want to be like, how about you tell me where we're going before we leave the driveway first? Okay. Cuz this road is long and I'm not enjoying this car ride. Or. Or I love this. It's like, you know, they're like, you know what? Let's. Let's not overthink this.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Where it's like, literally, this is what we do. This is what we do. So how do you tell. This is literally my job as a graphic designer.

[B]

You can't tell me not to think. Oh, holy, that's crazy.

[A]

Or. Or the undermining expertise. Comments. Oh, okay. This is where the whole. You're the designer. I'm sure you can figure it out. Right? And it's like, yeah, thanks. Coming from someone who can't even pick a font. Right. Over and over. Or can you just make it look like our competitors but different.

[B]

But different.

[A]

Right. It's like, yeah, I'll use my, you know, copy but don't copy tool. You know, this is really basic stuff. It really shouldn't take you that long. Oh, right. And this is like, yeah, yeah. Basic for me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Impossible for you.

[B]

Exactly. That's the worst.

[A]

That is right.

[B]

Because there is experience. There's years of experience that go into, you know, that. That simple phrase.

[A]

And the. And again, because the outcome is so simple for them to see.

[B]

Simple.

[A]

They have no idea what's involved.

[B]

Exactly, exactly.

[A]

Or how about when they push unrealistic expectations on us? All right, so this is a. This, this should be really quick for somebody with your skills. Okay. And this is where it's like, yeah, yeah. And this could also be quick if you had your act together.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Right. Or let's just start with this for now, and then we can tweak it as we go. We hear that all the time. And this is where it's like, yeah, that means this job's just gonna keep. Keep going for job that never ends.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Oh, Lord.

[A]

Or it's like, can we. Can we. Can we add a few last minute tweaks before the meeting this afternoon?

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

Yeah, right?

[B]

That's my favorite.

[A]

A few times.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And the response that you want to say is, because I have nothing else to do today.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

And then we've got the contradictory people. Okay. Which is, you know, the comments. Like, I like it, but I don't love it. It's just like, yeah, I love getting paid, but I don't love this feedback. Or it's like this. This needs to be eye catching, but. But don't overdo it. So it's like, okay, so you want a fucking fireworks display, but in grayscale. Right? Is that what you mean?

[B]

Yeah. Is that not overdoing it?

[A]

Or. We want something bold but not too loud.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's like, yeah, bold enough to notice, but quiet enough to ignore.

[B]

Give him right over.

[A]

Yeah, right. Honestly, this. This, I think is the biggest battle for us is having these people where it's just like, they're just asking for black plus. White.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. No thinking outside of the box or trusting that we know what we're doing.

[A]

No, no, no, there's none of that showing.

[B]

Yeah, there's certainly none of that.

[A]

There's none of that. Right? Or last but not least, the polite but pointed follow ups. This is like the passive aggressive ninja stars of the corporate world. Everywhere you look, you're like, bang, bang. And you're getting this. Right. So this is like, you know when you get an email and it's just like, hey, circling back here. When can I expect this? And he's like, yeah, circling back to when you said there was no rush on this last month. Month. Like, let's just do that. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz I hate that. They'll give you a pro. No rush, no rush, no rush.

[B]

Take your time.

[A]

And all of a sudden it's like, apparently we need it tomorrow. Well, what? Give me a date then?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Oh, dude. Or it's like, we were really hoping to have this wrapped up last week. Okay. And again. Yeah. That's when you wish you can say, and I was really hoping for feedback last month when I asked for it. So again, they're constantly throwing us under the bus.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When they're the ones. When they're the ones behind. Yes.

[B]

This is not what I want. Keep going.

[A]

Per my last email, just following up to check on progress. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Per my last email, I'm still waiting on the answers you didn't provide. And that was legitimately what happened this week with our assholes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then, of course, let me know if there's anything you need for me to keep this moving. Love that. Right. And again. Because it's like they're putting that on me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the response you want to be is, yeah, I need you to stop pretending that the delay is my fault. That's what I need to get this done. Dude, it's just unbelievable.

[B]

How much better would life be? You could say this, guys, this is.

[A]

The kind of stuff you want to say in your head. You don't actually want to type out.

[B]

Or if you work in, you know, in an environment with other designers, you could, you could, you could bounce that off them and they'll all go, yeah, man, I totally understand what you're going through.

[A]

Oh, but you know what I mean, the reality is though, okay? It's. It's not like this all the time. And these are not a reflection of all customers. It's really not.

[B]

We have great customer.

[A]

We do have great customers.

[B]

Minor blips. Sometimes.

[A]

Exactly. Right. This is the extreme one.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And everybody gets these. Okay. This isn't the. The odd bad customer or the odd, you know, out of bound request. This is, you know, that one. And again, we refer to as an evil customer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But again, you know, in this case, surviving isn't. Isn't just enough in this case, because we want everybody to thrive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just let these people just kind of just bounce off you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, so some survival tips to protect yourself while you're maintaining your expert status without losing your head. Okay, so obviously, first and foremost. Right. Contracts, scope of work, project outlines. Right. You need to outline all the details in writing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't ever, ever assume that they're gonna remember.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That they're gonna, you know, you'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, we did say that. Because they will never admit that if they're wrong in that situation. Right. So again, make sure that you have all of that stuff. Okay. Do yourself a favor.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Just save the emails. That's it. Just. Just get yourself a giant email account if you're on Google or, or Outlook or whatever, and just save everything. This way you can find it. Okay. Yep. One big thing that we always, you know, we have here as one of our. Our mantras is cover your ass. C Y A. Okay. Keep every email, no matter how small or insignificant it seems. Right. Those threads, make sure you realize what they are. Right. And, and, and, and what is. Like, make sure you read everything. Okay. And again, it's. Don't be the one to not reply in an email. Okay. Never be the one to reply. So that's perfect for the next part, which is close the loop. Okay. That's another thing that we live by here. Right. So you make sure that if you have a meeting, you close the loop and summarize that call. You summarize that meeting. You make sure all the decisions are there. The feedback is in writing. Just, just so we're avoiding this whole he said, she said. Okay. This is closing the loop. Don't assume that just because you sent that email, they understand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You want to make sure. And that's. And. And again, how you do that is if you're like, hey, you know what? Great meeting today. Here's an outline of everything we discussed. Let me know if I missed anything, if it's crickets for a couple days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Follow up with that email. Be like, hey, just circling back to this email. Want to make sure I didn't miss anything before we proceed with the revision?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And this is critical. You need their acknowledgment to say, yes, you're good to go. This covers everything. Because without them saying that, you've got technically no proof that they saw it. Yeah, I hate to say it, and that's what I hate about the whole cyber world. Because, you know, you're not. You're not. You're not tracking every single email open. Even. Even if you are, you know, they could always deny that. So it's true. So close the loop. Okay.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Stay calm and stay professional.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And it sucks even when they aren't. Just smile, grin, and bear that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because their duration is going to be temporary. Where you have got a lifetime, you know, a lifelong journey in this space. So don't lose your cool. Say anything you regret. Write anything in an email and accidentally send it. Okay.

[B]

That is the best part yet. Never, never fire off an email.

[A]

Never. Oh, my God. Never, ever. Never even type it, for that matter, because it's happened accidentally that something's sent out here once. Thank God the customer thought it was a joke.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. They're like, oh, my God, you're hilarious. This is why I love dealing with you guys. You're like, yeah, yeah, joking. You know, in these conversations, avoid defensive language.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because if you get defensive and you, your language sounds defensive, then it sounds like, you know, there is a fault here. Right. Where again, you want to maintain your, you know, expert status. So you try to steer these, these, these conversations towards solutions. Okay. Not towards blame. Okay. And keep the focus on the project, not on the drama. Okay. Can spiral pretty quick with some of these. And I mean it. These people, they're just, Just evil.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know what? You're not keeping them for customers forever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is not a client for life situation that we always revere about. These are temporary roadblocks. These are temporary, you know, more mountains or whatever you want to call them. Just speed bumps.

[B]

Speed bumps.

[A]

And honestly, you know, you just want to get past them. But keep, Keep your integrity, keep your dignity to the organization because they. That will go so much further than this.

[B]

And this kind of. It's unfortunate to say it, but this is a learning experience. When you deal with kind of people like this, it, it, it teaches you absolutely. You know, like, okay, this is how I can navigate this kind of. It's. It's a test.

[A]

It almost is a test.

[B]

Yeah. Then when you get to the good clients, well, boy, oh, boy, you know exactly how to handle.

[A]

Exactly. Right. Don't, don't let these shitty Clients, you know, this is a fact of life, but they don't define your career.

[B]

No, they don't.

[A]

Okay. And don't let these idiot situations, these, you know, like, hinder you from having the best design career.

[B]

Again.

[A]

Again, it's temporary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It'll always be temporary. You just gotta remember these points and ride this stuff. Right. You're not a. You're not just a designer. You don't just make things look pretty. Okay. You solve problems.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

These people are a problem. And they. They don't want your help. So just, you know, smile, deliver, and wait till they're gone. Right. Because again, you're right. This, just like you said, this. These are lessons. These are getting to the dream customers that you have.

[B]

Yeah. Think of all the clients, all the difficult clients that you've had to deal with and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And how to navigate that. It's a. It's a beautiful life lesson. It's. It's harsh, but nothing in this space is perfect, you know?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You're always going to be dealing with somebody who's difficult.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's a good way to do that.

[A]

I agree. I agree. Right. And again, you know what? It's some. They don't. They're not a reflection of the industry as a whole.

[B]

No.

[A]

They're not even a reflection of customers on a whole.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But you will probably encounter one or two of these in your whole career.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And again, just remember this shit. Okay. When you do. Okay. And just don't give up, because again, they're generally temporary and the worst of the worst are gone within 12 to 18 months.

[B]

This is true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. Which is good.

[A]

Thank God. Because I do not want to live another week like last week deal with bullshit.

[B]

I know, right? I don't know what the hell happened. Just something in the water. Come on, guys.

[A]

Absolutely. You know, I think, you know, over clarifying, you know, and I think that's something that people. That makes them look, you know, weak about. Right. Is when you're like, no, I just want clarification. I just want clarification. I just. You know what? If you have to ask for clarification 10 times, you're not the dumb one.

[B]

No.

[A]

They're obviously not explaining something proper.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And that's what designers have to remember. Like, if you're confused about something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ask.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because again, the brief should be crystal clear.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The ask should be crystal clear. And if you're confused by a customer ask, it's up to you to reach out and ask for that clarification. It's not a. It's not a reflection of you in any way.

[B]

No.

[A]

If anything, it makes you look like a rock star.

[B]

Totally. And that's the thing. It's like we can hypothesize. We can. We can guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As to what it is that you want.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But what that does is you get something that's not even close to what you want. It might be in that same realm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's not what you wanted.

[A]

It'll delay the delays and.

[B]

And then this is on. This is an unnecessary step for both them and.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So let's. Let's.

[A]

You know, it's funny, in looking at this situation, it's like if you were to clarify with one of these, you know, people, you might get a condescending remark.

[B]

You might.

[A]

But that's a lot better than having to deal with multiple revisions and multiple condescending remarks and, you know, multiple. That them teaching you how to tell, you know, how to do what you. You know, get that clarification up.

[B]

That's right. I want XYZ here. Yes. That's exactly what I said in my. In my. Yeah, in my request.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Okay. That's fine. You're a dick. You're asking. Because you didn't ask for that. But at least I have an answer here.

[A]

I had that answer. You're so right.

[B]

Yeah. That's kind of how you do that. So, again, a nice life lesson to absolutely learn how to deal with these dicks.

[A]

Well, yeah, I think that pretty much.

[B]

Sums everything up, because I feel a thousand times better. I feel like I've gone into one of those rooms where you smash plates and stuff.

[A]

I do. I. We should do that team building. I want to find one of those.

[B]

Get all our clients logos on it.

[A]

Smash play. Well, we got about 25 years worth of shitty customers. I'm sure we could pull quite a few.

[B]

Yes, we certainly.

[A]

I got some good ones. I would love to take a bat too.

[B]

Yes, you do.

[A]

The picture, that is. I hope you guys got some stuff out of this. Laughs and some actual information. These people are not a reflection of your design career. Okay. Small blips. So just take this information, learn how to deal with it and get over it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You guys will be fine.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter. Anger Management for Designers. You can sign up on our website. You can. You know, the link is also on YouTube and it's on Instagram. So hit us up, because we're going to give you every week tips on how to not just survive, but thrive and. And own that, that. That journey of yours, that creative career. And hit us up on YouTube and. And Instagram.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're your buds.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yes, we are.

[A]

My name is Massimo.

[B]

And my name is John.

[A]

Stay creative.

[B]

Stay angry.

[A]

I feel like I'm losing my mind? Everybody in the world please Lord give me a sign, A sign? I want to be the greatest everybody on the face? I look around I feel like everybody is the fakers? I make this every day and I'm impatient hoping one day I blow up from the basement statement the top is so vacant? I don't hear that I think is amazing? Waiting for my day when I'm playing sold out shows where a thousand faces? Hey give me that crown? Get in my way you'll be put down? It ain't your place called this my town? If I want that then I'll get it right now? Now I'm losing it? The noose it fits the moose? You share a stupid myth? You choose to live or choose to dip? You choose to fight or lose your grip and lose a gift? Oh, I feel like I'm losing my mind? Everybody in the world please lord give me a sign? A sign.