Are Graphic Designers Over 40 Too Old for the Industry?

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Angry Designer Podcast

Episode: "Are Graphic Designers Over 40 Too Old for the Industry?"

Date: February 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, hosts Massimo and Sean take on the persistent myth that designers become obsolete after 40. They pull apart the reality of ageism in the design industry, examining why corporations seem to prefer youth and whether older designers are genuinely being pushed out—or if there’s a deeper, more insidious factor at play. Drawing from decades of agency experience, Massimo challenges the "youth is everything" narrative, arguing that experience and curiosity—not just age—determine longevity in creative careers. The episode mixes humor, real talk, and actionable advice, making it essential listening for designers at any career stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double Standard of Experience (00:00 – 04:13)

• Massimo kicks off by comparing design to fields like law or medicine, where age and experience are valued:

  "Bourbon, wine, cheese, they all get better with age ... the older they are, the more experience they have and the more valuable they are. But designers, the world acts like they expire the day they turn 40." (A, 00:00)

• He notes many designers over 40 feel “washed up” or “invisible,” questioning if this is truly industry-driven or just a perception fostered by culture.

• They reference iconic older designers (Aaron Draplin, Chris Do, Alan Peters, Paul Rand) as proof that design is a lifelong vocation, not a young person’s game.

2. Experience vs. Speed, Trend, and Tools (04:13 – 10:50)

• The hosts discuss how younger designers often excel at new tools and trends, sometimes creating an illusion of greater value due to speed and visible output—especially on social media.

• Massimo argues:

  "Being good at tools doesn't automatically make you a good designer ... experience, judgment ... comes after years of doing this and solving problems, that's not easy to see." (A, 06:04)

• Social media amplifies youth voices and output, but this visibility doesn’t necessarily equate to expertise.

3. The Corporate Bias Toward Youth—and Why It Exists (11:04 – 14:30)

• The appeal of startup culture is critiqued as a mask for exploitation, favoring youth because they are perceived as “easier to control, underpaid, and overworked.”
• Massimo observes:

  "Startup culture is just, in my opinion, abuse disguised as opportunity." (A, 11:19)

• It's not youth that's inherently preferred—it’s their willingness to put up with less and to fit a system designed for turnover and cost-cutting.

4. Corporate Ageism is Manufactured Divide (12:56 – 16:33)

• Ageism in corporations is described as "intentional" and "manufactured" to prevent solidarity and knowledge sharing between generations.
• This manufactured competition between juniors (seen as cheap labor) and seniors (labeled “expensive” or “out of touch”) ultimately exploits both.

5. The Cost: Loss of Knowledge Transfer (14:31 – 17:20)

• When generational divides are enforced, essential knowledge exchange is lost, to the detriment of the entire field.

6. What Experienced Designers Bring—Handling Chaos and Complexity (15:28 – 18:18)

• Experienced designers excel when things go wrong—they can manage clients, solve unpredictable problems, and have “deeper thinking” that comes only with years in the trenches.
• Sean shares:

  "What happens when shit hits the roof? ... what experience brings is this—experience is just like, oh, yeah, I know what they want. I'll take care of it." (A, 16:14)

7. Real-World Example: Hiring for Experience & Curiosity (18:18 – 23:00)

• Story of hiring Shannon (an experienced designer) and Maddie (a junior, hungry to learn) at the same time. Both brought unique strengths, but their shared curiosity and willingness to learn are what made them invaluable.
• Massimo reflects on why Shannon, despite being over 50, was immediately recognized as an “asset,” not a liability. Their agency thrives with intergenerational learning, defying the old/young divide.

8. The True Threat: Complacency, Not Age (23:21 – 24:47)

• Massimo asserts that ageism isn't about turning 40 or 50; it’s about losing curiosity and willingness to evolve.

• Notable quote:

  "The moment you stop learning is the moment where basically your value ends." (A, 24:25)

• Complacency, not age, is what truly sidelines designers—regardless of their year of birth.

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Actionable Advice for Experienced Designers

Massimo’s Top Three Recommendations (24:25 – 29:00):

1. Stop Competing with Younger Designers

   • Don’t fight on their turf (speed, tools, social media clout).
   • Lean into strengths: judgment, taste, decision-making.

   "Your advantage in this world is your judgment, is your taste, is your ability to make decisions, is to lean into the experience that you have." (A, 25:43)

2. Make Your Experience Visible

   • Proactively communicate how and why you make decisions.
   • Go beyond “hidden” work—explain your thought process and strategic value.

   "You have to make it known that what you are offering is something that's a next level." (A, 27:03)

3. Move Up the Stack

   • Seek roles in leadership, art direction, or strategy—not just execution.
   • Push for impact beyond making things “look pretty.”

   "Execution, unfortunately, is kind of, you know, there's a limited future in it and tools are getting faster ... take more of a leadership role, try for those leadership positions, try to manage that, bring that vision." (A, 27:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Age and Value:
  "If things that age genuinely get better, why is there this perception that as graphic designers age, they become irrelevant?" (A, 03:01)

• On Manufactured Ageism:
  "Ageism in the Corporate culture is 100% by design ... it's intentional ... they're creating a divide. Yeah, okay? And have them pit against each other." (A, 12:59)

• On Knowledge Exchange:
  "The real cost to this bullshit is that there is a loss of knowledge transfer between the two." (A, 14:31)

• On Staying Valuable:
  "The moment you stop learning is the moment where basically your value ends." (A, 24:25)

• On Competing in the Wrong Arena:
  "If you're trying to compete on execution, well, you're going to be replaceable." (A, 25:39)

• On Intergenerational Synergy:
  "Both [Shannon and Maddie] are still genuinely curious ... that's the key to ageism." (A, 23:00)

• On Passion and Purpose:
  "It's the best. This is the best job I've ever [had]." (B, 29:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00: Episode intro & bourbon analogy
• 03:01: The disconnect between how other professions value age vs. design
• 06:04: Speed vs. experience in design
• 11:19: The reality of startup culture & exploitation of youth
• 12:59: Corporate ageism as manufactured divide
• 16:14: Experience showing its value during crises
• 18:18: Hiring experienced and young designers—what makes both valuable
• 23:00: Curiosity as the dividing line—not age
• 24:25: Three actionable tips for staying relevant as an experienced designer
• 27:03: The necessity of making your value visible
• 29:40: Facing AI head-on—not something to fear if you offer more than execution

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode maintains The Angry Designer's trademark blend of irreverence, candor, and mentorship. It’s “no-bull,” full of practical wisdom and reassurance for designers—especially those feeling the squeeze of an industry that sometimes seems obsessed with youth. Listeners walk away with real advice: stay curious, communicate your unique value, and don’t let age—or complacency—define your creative worth.

Final Message:
“Age isn’t the problem—it’s becoming complacent and losing your edge. You don’t have to be any age for that.” (A, 30:50)

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Transcript

[A]

You ever notice that there's this double standard going on in the design industry? I mean, bourbon, wine, cheese, they all get better with age. And doctors, lawyers, architects. The older they are, the more experience they have and the more valuable they are. But designers, the world acts like they expire the day they turn 40, and it's gotten inside of people's heads. I mean, I hear from designers all the time who are feeling washed up and invisible, in their prime or too slow compared to a new junior who discovered a shortcut or a new tool. Feels like the industry stopped rewarding wisdom and started worshiping speed. But is that actually real? Or is that just something that designers have been conditioned to actually believe? In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by Wick Studio, we're diving into whether ageism actually exists in design, why corporations seem to chase youth instead of experienced pros, and what really makes a designer stay relevant or get left behind. But here's the thing. I'm not sure that the problem was ever age. Ever. I think there's something else happening that's deeper that explains why this divide even exists. And if you miss it, you just might be chasing the wrong enemy for the next decade. Don't forget to subscribe and like and sign up for Anger Management newsletter. It's like in the header somewhere.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Sean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let me tell you about what we're drinking today.

[B]

It smells lovely.

[A]

Can I say that? So this is called Jefferson's, and it's ocean aged at sea. So what the deal here is, I know it's ocean age. So what the deal is, okay, is every voyage has a number. I don't know if you can see that without your glasses.

[B]

Oh, wait, let me.

[A]

And it's this one's voyage 28. And it's got a log. You can go and check what the route is. But the idea is here, when they. When they. When. When they do these, okay, When. When they're creating this batch, y, they take these barrels, they put them on an ocean liner, okay, and as it goes across the ocean, okay, the idea is that it sloshes around the. The barrels differently. So every single batch is unique, right? Which is why it has a batch, you know, whether it's calm water, waters, whether it's stormy waters, and so it's aged at sea. So I think the story is incredible on this one. Randy told me about this one. He. He sold me, and now I'm going to share it with you.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So I think this is interesting, and it's a good Talk for today for us. But let's try.

[B]

Okay. Let's salute, my friend. Salute. Smells nice.

[A]

Oh, it smells so good. And it doesn't taste like ocean water. It's. I, I mean, I think it's great. It's got a little bit of a chase coming down.

[B]

It's a nice chase.

[A]

It's a nice chase. Right. It's a great story to tell. And I love this idea that it's now aged at sea. Cuz aged bourbon is a thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Aged scotch. Yes. Is a thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Aged doctor are a thing and lawyers are a thing. You guys see a theme that's going on here? Oh, yeah. Aged bourbon is, is better. Aged scotch is better. Okay. Aged cheese is better. Aged wine is better. Aged dark doctors, lawyers, better. Okay. More experience. They kind of, they kind of come to life. So, you know, when all things are considered, you know, if, if things that age genuinely get better, why is there this perception that as graphic designers age, they become irrelevant? They're like, like ageism is a thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. And, and so that's, that's what I want to talk about today because I've had quite a few people reach out. They're saying that they can't compete anymore. Basically, you know, they' discouraged right now, and they're thinking that design is a young person's game. Oh, and it's kind of unfortunate. I call a little bit of on this. Right. Which is what I want to talk about. Right. Because I don't think older designers are being pushed out in any way. And we've talked about this on so many different levels. I mean, I do think ageism exists.

[B]

It does. It does for sure, in the way

[A]

people are describing it. Right. It's not like, oh, you know, you're good, you're a designer, and soon as you hit 40, you're. You're gone.

[B]

Yeah. You're out to pasture.

[A]

Look at some of the coolest designers right now. You know, like Aaron draplin. He's over 50. Chris do. He's over 50. Right. Alan peters is in his mid-40s. He just turned. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we're talking. There's something that comes with experience in this, in this industry. Okay. And maybe that's overshadowed. Right. You know, and I'm not saying that, you know, these people's feelings aren't legit and they're not relevant because they're, they're legit feelings, feeling stuff. I just don't think it's what they think. It's that, that they're Feeling right. I don't, I don't, I just, I don't think that it's like, you know, you have an expiry date as a designer.

[B]

No, I don't think you do. Like, yeah, and thank God, because I mean like somebody like Paul Rand.

[A]

Yes, right.

[B]

Like that guy was, was, you're right, ancient.

[A]

You look at some Massimo. Exactly. Small bass, all rain. You look at like the most classic mid century designers, all design well into their 80s and 90s. I mean, it seems like they would keep designing until they stopped because the older they got, the more experience they got. And there's something there with experience that really does help, you know, a graphic designer, you know, with the way they think, you know, with the way they problem solve. I get why they think that ageism exists, Right. Because again, younger designers, there's no question that younger designers are, are. They're coming into the market with, you know, new tools.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

New tools. And let's face it, a lot of older designers still do things the old ways because, you know, at the same time, why do I need to know how, you know, how many Illustrator shortcuts there are and stuff? I'm fine with the shortcuts I have. Yes, right. And still work. Still works. Right. You know, there might be quicker ways to do something.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So, you know, and they get it, you know that they pick up on trends and shortcuts a lot quicker. So you know, that's a, that's a legit thing. Right. So on paper, they might look a little bit more current. Okay. Younger designers. Right. And you know, the thing is, you know, the industry started rewarding that if you look at it. Right. Because oftentimes what's easy is reward. It's like, oh, wow, you just did that in one click, you're a fucking hero. Right. But the thing is, being good at tools doesn't automatically make you a good designer. No, right. And people keep thinking that. Right. It actually has nothing to do with it.

[B]

Experience.

[A]

Designers need to understand this because, you know, execution, doing things with a quick click, doing things, you know, in a, in a 15, 30 second clip on, on Instagram or YouTube or something that's visible. Yeah. Okay. That's, you know, everybody can see it and everybody applauds it. But you know, the experience, judgment, you know, the things that, you know, that come after years of doing this and solving problems, that's not easy to see. No, right. That's not, that's like the quiet thing, right? Yeah. We'll show what you made. But thinking is Actually why something works in the whole process. Okay. And unfortunately, there's no easy way to show that on social media.

[B]

This is true. This is true. And it's not very sexy.

[A]

Well, that we can say for sure, unfortunately. And I think, I think we struggle with that our podcast. Cuz often times the. That we talk about isn't very sexy.

[B]

This is true.

[A]

Doesn't mean it's not legit, these dates. Doesn't mean that it doesn't go deeper for sure. It's just, it's not, it's not as easy to, you know, to sexify. You know, some of the topics that we talk about, about experience, about AI. About being better at things. Right. Yeah. You know, because unfortunately, whether we like it or not, a lot, lot of the world right now is on social media. And youth owns that.

[B]

Yes, big time.

[A]

Okay. There's no question they, they, they, they put opinions out there, you know, they talk about things, they showing things. They're putting their lives on there. Where I find, you know, earlier millennials, Gen X, you know, no desire to do anything like that. Right?

[B]

We didn't come up, come up with that.

[A]

No, absolutely, we didn't. Right. But the thing is, when, when these younger, you know, designers are, are putting this stuff on social, it really amplifies, you know, the speed that they can throw shit out there, you know, and because they're designing it today, they're like, hey, this is good. I'm just going to quickly snap this and put it out there. And so this all of a sudden starts compounding. But again, just because people are liking it and they're more popular online, it doesn't make them better. Right. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Because I see all that stuff and I'm thinking, oh, man, I really should do a course on Illustrator or something. I should learn more of this. But exactly like you said, what we can do is the same thing. There's, there's 100 to do it.

[A]

We just bring different, different things there. We didn't. We bring different weapons to the fight. Right. Or different, you know, that's a dark analogy. So Game of Thronesy right now, you know, you know, so, you know, with all these things, it's, it's easy to understand why people feel, you know, like, like there's ageism and, and people favor, you know, younger, younger designers. People favor youth. And I do think that the industry favors youth, but not for good reasons. Okay. And this is where I kind of, this is where I think this, this whole thing takes a little bit of a turn that nobody really Realizes it. Right. Okay, and now a word from our sponsor designers. Let's be honest. Web design should be a graphic designer's job. It's bold, it's creative, it's experimental, and at its core, it is design. Layout just brought to life online. But somewhere along the way, graphic designers lost it. Developers took over, tools got complicated, and creativity took a backseat to code. Thing is, clients still expect us to bring their brand to life everywhere. And if we're not offering web design today, you're leaving money and potential opportunities on the table. That's where Wiki Studio comes in. It's the web platform built for designers with a drag and drop interface that feels like a designer's tool. Plus, no code, animations and AI powered tools. You can create fully custom websites that match your vision. Every pixel, every layout, every detail. So whether it's a simple branded brochure site or an online portfolio, or even a full blown e commerce experience, Wix Studio makes it all possible for graphic designers with tools that think like a designer, not like a developer. The web doesn't need more templates. It needs you and your creativity unleashed. And Wix Studio is going to give you that opportunity. So stop giving creativity away and take back the web for design. Visit wixstudio.com and design the web the way it is meant to be. Startup culture. Yeah. Okay, let's just use that as an example. Everybody loves the idea of startup culture, right? It looks fun, you know, you got ping pong tables, you got like music,

[B]

bring your dog to work every day, right?

[A]

And the energy, the vibrate, it's there. But I've always hated this, okay. Because it's like, you know, startup culture is just, in my opinion, abuse disguised as opportunity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because how many times I know people that they'll go into a startup, they'll work all these crazy hours, they'll be underpaid, okay. Then they'll just get canned because they're at the bottom of the totem pole. Okay. And then they go to another startup and they go through the same rinse and repeat, low pay, lots of hours. Because they're part of a, A bigger, you know, system. They're part of a bigger vision. Yeah. But they're just getting used, unfortunately. Because, you know, this is why I think the industry loves youth culture. Because they can abuse them, pay them less, take advantage of, Take advantage of them. Right. Easier to control. Because a lot of times they're just like. Yeah, yeah, because they're looking for, they're looking for opportunities, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the people who don't get fired at these startups are the older management, okay? And that's. This is the crazy, and this is what I mean, right? So it's like they're. They're covering this up as a cultural fit, right? But really, it's like, you know, they're just being used, and that's the unfortunate part. So they love it, okay? They do love youth. And they. They. They like, they. What is the word? They celebrate it.

[B]

Celebrate it, yeah.

[A]

But I think a lot of it is because they want to take advantage of it, right? And that's why I'm raising my. Not to. To realize what those signs are. Don't ever get taken advantage of. You know, I'm trying to tell people back here to stand up for themselves. Not that I abuse them internally anyway, but I mean, this whole, you know, corporate design, you know, ageism, putting young against old, I think that, you know, just. Just like the. The how industry uses youth, I think that that's all just like they pit. They pit the two worlds against each other on purpose, you know, in the bigger world.

[B]

I think this is by design.

[A]

I think ageism in the Corporate culture is 100% by design, okay. I think it's intentional, okay. It's a manufactured divide, in my opinion. Okay. Because again, we know that juniors are overworked, they're underpaid, they're underappreciated, and they're first to get axed, okay. And seniors, well, they're just labeled expensive. Okay? And, you know, difficult or out of, out of touch. Okay. Which is, you know, and again, you know, so. So what they're doing is, is they're. They're giving these, like, you know, really strong, you know, divide. They're creating a divide. Yeah, okay? And have them pit against each other. And by them pitting against each other, it takes the pressure off the big corporate system, because in the whole corporate system doesn't actually have to, you know, change. They're exploiting both equally.

[B]

Further your earlier point, it's like, I didn't. I never did understand that either, like, why you would sell your soul or for. For this job.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, like, yeah, sure, you got pool table. You got all the cool stuff. Yeah, it looks awesome. But you're there all the time.

[A]

All the time. You never leave and, you know, why would you put up with it? No, exactly.

[B]

God, I wouldn't. I could never do that.

[A]

Once you get years experience, okay, you can call, you can be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You see through that you're like, right. I don't give a. You got a poker or a pool table?

[B]

Yeah, I got one at home.

[A]

Yeah. You know, alcohol. I. Because, again, we have experience.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's what they're more experienced is like. Because we wouldn't put up with that.

[B]

No, no, we would.

[A]

And that's exactly it. So the problem. The sad part about all of this is that there's like a. Like, the real cost to this bullshit is that there is a loss of knowledge transfer between the two. Because, see, we operate different here. Right. You're sharing with the young. Young are sharing with us. Right. Right. We are intentionally trying to train our younger designers. Okay. But in these corporations, when. When they're putting up that divide in place, nobody wants to share anything. Okay? Yes.

[B]

The youth have their. Their use. The old people have their use. Like, absolutely.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Never get them together, because they'll get mad at you and overthrow you. You have been watching a lot of

[A]

Game of Thrones, watching quite a bit of Game of Thrones lately, that's for sure. So it's like, you know, I. It looks really bad. Okay. But if you stand back and look at what experienced designers do bring to the table.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm not. I'm not discrediting, you know, what younger designers have, you know, and I love their energy. Yeah. I love. They look at things differently. Yes. You know, and it's appreciated when they're working with the bigger team. Right. Like, the. Right. The right. You know, the right junior can just absorb so much. Yeah. It's awesome. You know, and maybe that's lost a little bit on the old, but, you know, on the older designers, you know, what they're not realizing is that, you know, while these. These young designers are great and good workers and hard workers and. And they can, you know, get shit done. What happens when shit hits the roof? Right. What happens when a client calls and is like, you know, complaining or yelling or angry? Yeah. Do younger designers often take care of that? No.

[B]

Most of them kind of fold up into themselves. Right. Yeah.

[A]

And that's the thing, right? What. What experience brings is this. Who. Experience is just like, oh, yeah, I know what they want. I'll take care of it. Right. And that's what it's like when things get hard. Okay. That's where experience actually shows.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's where experience comes out. Because it's like you're able to step into something.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And not have to, you know, correct everything and not have to worry about all the little details, because you actually know what matters.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what's just decoration or fluff. Right. That's a huge part. Right. They do deeper thinking. Like, older designers have a deeper thinking to them that might not. It's not that it's lost on younger designers.

[B]

No.

[A]

They just haven't developed it exactly. Right. Because they don't have the experience, the skill.

[B]

Yeah. It's funny because I get assigned all the weird jobs that nobody understands.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think that's probably part of the reason, because it's just like, I don't know what that is. Give that to the old guy. He'll figure it out.

[A]

But, you know, oftentimes I get questions and they're like, the client's asking for this, but I'm not sure it'll work. Okay. Yeah. Then how them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not going to work.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Or they'll come and be like, well, you know, this. This is really weird, what the customer is asking for. And I'm like, look, that's clearly a copy paste.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Push back. Yeah. Give them a different suggestion. You know, lightly. Like, it's almost like they don't want the confrontation because they're concerned over the confrontation.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

So, you know, like, again, you know, speed looks great. Knowing tools look great. You know, this all looks great on, you know, from that side. But if you're an older designer and you're feeling, you know, like you don't have anything to offer, you know, what you're offering is like, you've got, you know, better judgment based on experience. That shit that can save projects. You know how to deal with customers. When we hired Shannon. Yeah. Right. We were looking for a younger designer. Right. And unfortunately his agency, where he was at for 20 years, folded. Right. He was our first of, like, five interviews. And after. And we weren't even thinking about hiring somebody who's older. Right. Because he was. He was 50 at the time.

[B]

Ironic.

[A]

Right. And. But sat. We chatted. We didn't have the same kind of interview questions because it was just a conversation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. You worked on that. Oh, yeah. And just. It was so fluid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That at the end of that meeting, it was like, that's not what we were looking for. No. But we are crazy to let this guy go.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I literally canceled.

[B]

You did all other interviews.

[A]

I was like, dude, I'm like, do we have to wait?

[B]

I don't want to do this.

[A]

Exactly. We did. We. You know what I mean? It was such a waste at that point. Right. So we were able to see what the value was. But, but it was because in the conversations with him, we saw the value that he brought.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He had experience doing virtually everything he,

[B]

he'd seen a lot.

[A]

Exactly. And so, you know, he instantly became an asset. There was no, you know, work. He just stepped in, he got to work. I never have to tell him to do something twice still to this day.

[B]

Yeah, he's so, he's, he's good. But what about our youngest, Maddie?

[A]

Oh, my God. And oddly, we hired them both at the same time.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is great. And two polar opposites.

[A]

Totally polar. One had total experience and she had print experience.

[B]

Yeah, she did. Yeah.

[A]

And, and again, so this is why it's like we have the best of both worlds. Because, you know, she is unlike no other that we've ever hired when it comes to, you know, at a junior. And she's at. Owns it. She wants to learn. She's curious. Right. She's. And you know, and she's getting much faster at everything she does, but she wants to, she's willing to take whatever you give her on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, it's like almost like the same person. Yep. Personality wise, but one at the start of the career and one basically, you know, not at the end, but, you know, 20, 25 years into it. Yes. So while she's incredible at executing. Yeah. Okay. We're quickly talking about something else that's really excellent at executing AI super fast. And that's all it's doing. Right. AI is just execution. Right. Okay. And if, if AI can get to the point where it can do drafts and layouts and variations and it can do it as fast as any kind of designer, you know, and let's face it, cheaper. Okay. The value, if the value that a young designer has is only the fact that they have tools and they can, you know, actually do the hands on work, that, that could go away pretty quick. That, that's, that's something that's like, it's limited.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And this is what we're always pushing. Right. Where experience designers. Okay. Or what AI can't do even more. So is it. It can't understand, you know, the context of a project. It can't under, you know, understand the brand. It can't, you know, identify which problem is the right problem. Oftentimes it can identify what the hell crazy customers are asking for in the request. Okay. These are things that AI can't answer. Where experienced designers like us, like Shannon can read through all the, the fluff, read through all the bs and actually Propose the right idea. Ex. Okay. So again, not a slant by any way to the younger designers because we're always telling everybody equally. You have to go above just execution.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay. But, you know, the reality is AI is not going to replace the strategic designer who can think through problems, who can dig deep and find out what customers are really looking for. Right. Try to understand what, what the core of a brand actually is. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can't replace that.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

So. But it can replace the other ones. So this is why experienced designers aren't necessarily giving themselves enough credit.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. In thinking that, you know, they're just going to be pushed out because they're getting older.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's far from the truth.

[B]

It's. It's absolutely far for the. I think, to me, it's your attitude, like if, if you're not. If you really just want to kind of come in and punch a clock and.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And that's your. That's. You're going to be done like no time. You're already checked out.

[A]

It doesn't matter if you're a young designer or an older designer.

[B]

Exactly. In fact.

[A]

Okay, what. Shannon, who is one of the oldest designers here, and what, Maddie, who is the youngest designer here. They have some shit in common.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, they do. They both want to learn.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, that's. Yeah, they're. They're both learn. Yeah. Like it doesn't really matter whether, you know what, what the difference is. Their, Their, their age is. They're still learning.

[A]

Exactly. That. They're both, they're both still curious. They ask questions and they ask questions about.

[B]

Shannon may have a. But Maddie is eager to learn and she's, you know, so he, he only

[A]

has a leg up because he has experience to back.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay. So she's asking the right questions for where she is. He's asking different kinds of questions on how to progress something further. Right. So again, but, but the common thread here is that they're both still genuinely curious.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. They both are. They still want to evolve. Okay. And you know, they're both like 20 years apart.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

So, like, again, it's. It's kind of crazy that it. You think ageism exists. This is an agency and I value those two. Both. I don't want anything. I don't want to have neither one of them ever leave.

[B]

No. I know.

[A]

Again, amazing boys.

[B]

They're both awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Where ageism actually exists, despite corporations, you know, trying to plot us against each other and despite, you know, like, you Know, younger designers being abused and older designers, you know, claim to be difficult. I think it's not like ageism starts at, you know, 40 or 50 years old. It really doesn't. It starts when the whole curiosity, like you just said about them goes. It is done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't want to evolve. They become complacent.

[B]

They're punching the clock. Punching the clock, you know, and it's just like riding out the day.

[A]

And, dude, you know, you don't have to be, you know, 40, 50 years old to be that way. No, because again, I. We've had people in their early 30s. They were already old designer, checked out, and, you know, they didn't add to anything in the culture. They were just like another body coming in, checking out. And if that's your thing, that's fine. But. But, you know, your time is going to be limited, hands down. So I do think that the moment you stop learning is the moment where basically your value ends.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And whether you're 25 or whether you're 55. Okay. I think that's the key to ageism. Yeah, totally. So I'm not discrediting what people are feeling. Right. Okay. And. And. And it could be intimidating, especially because, you know, if. If you can't accept the fact or you don't, you can't see that, you know, why youth is celebrated, which, you know, is great, but it's also. They're taking advantage of and how corporations are plotting us. That's fine. Okay. There's some things that, you know, some experienced designers can. Three things. Three things that I think experienced designers, if they want to. They want to stay relevant, if they want to actually, you know, go out, get a job, upgrade a job, do anything new, or they're just getting back into this or getting new. Okay. Because again, this is the kind of questions. Right. Three things I'm recommending. Okay. 3. Number one, first and foremost, you got to stop competing against young designers. Right. It's not a competition. It's not like there's no. You will never win on speeds, on trends, on social media. Right. You won't. Because it's just this. They grew up with this. Yes. It's second nature. And, you know, we. We had to learn this, okay. From scratch. We kind of. We immigrated to it.

[B]

They're there. Yeah, they're there. They were bored with this, I think, some of them.

[A]

Right. So again, there's no way we can compete with this. Right. So your advantage, you know, in this world is your judgment, is your taste, your ability to make decisions is, is to lean into the experience that you have. Right. Because again, if, if, if you're trying to compete on execution, well, you're going to be replaceable. Yep, they're going to be replaceable. Everybody's going to fucking be. But if your value is in decision making is being able to, you know, adapt, you know, make decisions on the fly, you know, solve a problem, that's huge value. Yeah, it's huge value.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So first off, just stop competing with young. Okay. Because there's so much more you can learn from than trying to compete against. With, Against. Okay. Number two, you need to make your experience visible. So we talked about how, you know, younger designers are putting all their. Online. They're, they're creating something that's online, that's okay. They're putting what they can do online. What we do isn't very visible.

[B]

It's not. I know.

[A]

You know, you have to, you have to speak up and show how you think. You have to explain why you're doing things. You have to point out problems, you know, and opportunities that, you know, you see in a project. Okay. So it's like all of a sudden if people just beeline to the easy button.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can be like, well, wait guys, is this actually the right. And here is why. Don't diss anybody. Don't be that jerk.

[B]

Don't be that, don't be that guy.

[A]

Yeah, but the reality is you have to make it, make it known that what you are offering is something that's a next level. Right. Okay. It's not just a matter whether it's, hey, we can be more efficient by doing this. We can, you know, improve the customer's ROI by doing this. We can improve click through rates like this. We can, you know, maybe, I don't know if we trimmed the size down on here, we can fit more items up on a print sheet and save us more money. You know what I mean? There's just a whole different level of thinking. But you have to make it known. Okay. You can't just hold back and. Because again, what's going to happen is then all this other stuff that's more exciting, that's more visual, it's going to get out there. And the stuff that you can do, which is more valuable. Yeah. Nobody ever knows.

[B]

No one notices that because it's behind the scenes.

[A]

And then number three, okay, honestly, you have to try to move up the stack again. Do you want to compete at a junior designer level? Even at a regular designer? Right. Execution, unfortunately is kind of, you know, there's a limited future in it and tools are getting faster and everybody's going to be cranking out execution. Right. But the thing is, what you offer is more than execution. So what you want to do is take more of a leadership role, try for those leadership positions, try to manage that, bring that vision. Be the art director, be the creative director. Right. Like, say what you do, don't just show it. Right. Like, help out and frame the bigger problems. Right. And literally, intentionally. Right. Move up the stack into it, into a more managerial position. I mean, I know that kind of sucks and some people maybe don't want the extra work, you know, and if that's fine. But then if a senior designer is all you ever want to be, which is totally cool, and you're not going to lend yourself to anybody else, then, you know, you're going to be competing on a whole different level and you might have more to offer than just that, honestly.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Right. It's again, you know, you can make better decisions, better decisions that move the needle than just, you know, trying to compete on. On a tool, trying to decide a color choice. Right. So do that and move up the stack for that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. Because again, I. I don't think that the future is old versus young. I don't.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, it's certainly not. I really don't. I. I still think it has to do with, you know, if you become stagnant. Yeah. You know, and if you're thinking becomes. And if you just don't want to evolve, I think, I think that's the. Where the future is going to, you know, change and flush people out. Yeah. Not just because you hit 40 or 45 or 50. Yeah.

[B]

That's. That's, you know, and you discount the. The fact that it's. The passion for it too.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, you know, it's the best. This is the best job I've ever. So I mean, I mean, you know, so. So you face something like a. AI head on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

True. This is.

[B]

This is something where it's like, this would scare the. Out of somebody who's on shaky ground. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not 100 sure about this, about what you're doing, confident in what you. You're doing, this is going to scare the crap.

[A]

It is.

[B]

But it's like now it's just another tool. It is just something. Something else to help.

[A]

Because you offer more. Right. I give you certain things because I know you're not going to like, come to me with every simple. Okay, what do they mean?

[B]

I don't get this.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

Oh, and, I mean, that's fine. You don't have the time for that kind of stuff. Right. So that's where, you know, the senior designers, like Shan, Shannon, and I, we. We are kind of like, guiding. Like, he works with Tally all the time, and it's absolutely. It's beautiful. I like.

[A]

And what's cool is Tally works with Maddie and.

[B]

Yes, I know. And it's like.

[A]

It's like there's a chain happening here.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

So. And again, everybody has so much to learn from one another. Yes. Right. So if you can kind of get out of your head that there's a competition, that it's old versus young, you know, the. You know, and literally, you know, that. That. That knowledge transfer is golden and awesome.

[B]

I wish I'd had something like that coming up.

[A]

You know, again, it's. Age isn't the problem. It's. It's. It's becoming complacent and losing your edge. Yeah, right. And you don't have to be any age for that.

[B]

No, that could happen.

[A]

That.

[B]

That could happen to 25. That could happen anywhere, dude.

[A]

I don't ever plan on retiring. I. I want to be like Mazda, Movinelli, and Paul Randall's guy. I want to be doing this till I'm in my 80s and 90s, and I'll be that old Italian guy who walks through here while the next generation takes over. Yeah. Hey, what do you guys do it like this? Guys, you know, don't forget to drop us a line on this. Let us know where you stand. Hit us up on the website on social. You know where to find us. And don't forget about our. Our newsletter. Anger management for designers.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

More of this. Just. Just. Just in newsletter form. My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean. Stay creative and stay angry. It.