BURNOUT IS AVOIDABLE – But YOU Might Be the Problem. Here’s How to Fix It.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "BURNOUT IS AVOIDABLE – But YOU Might Be the Problem. Here’s How to Fix It."

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Angry Designer - Graphic Design, Branding, Marketing, & Creative Business Operations to Get Paid What Your Worth and Avoid Burnout
• Host/Author: A Graphic Design Podcast that cuts through industry bull to help frustrated Graphic Designers charge what they're worth and build creative careers
• Description: A No-Bull Graphic Design podcast that helps frustrated Graphic Designers crush the social & industry bull, learn to charge what they're worth, and build badass rewarding creative careers.
• Episode: BURNOUT IS AVOIDABLE – But YOU Might Be the Problem. Here’s How to Fix It.
• Release Date: March 4, 2025

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with Hosts Massimo (A) and Sean (B) diving straight into the pressing issue of burnout within the graphic design industry. They set the stage by emphasizing the podcast’s mission to help designers avoid burnout, charge their worth, and build fulfilling careers.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [00:07]: "Burnout is mostly preventative, and most of it is setting the right expectations for whatever it is that you have ahead of you."

Understanding Burnout in Graphic Design

Massimo and Sean discuss the multifaceted nature of burnout, distinguishing it from mere overworking. They highlight that while some designers may find long hours enjoyable, the underlying issues often stem from feeling undervalued, overwhelmed, and replaceable.

Statistics:

• A WeTransfer study: Over 75% of graphic designers reported experiencing burnout.
• Another study by Creative Hut: Over 80% experienced at least one day of burnout per week.

Personal Experiences with Burnout

Both hosts share their personal encounters with burnout. Massimo candidly admits feeling creatively burnt out after 25 years in the industry, while Sean relates how the constant demands often leave him exhausted by the end of the day.

Notable Quotes:

Massimo [09:19]: "I think I've been creatively burnt out right now."

Sean [11:21]: "From work, I'm energized, but I use it all up by the end of the day."

Top 10 Reasons for Burnout in Graphic Design

1. Unrealistic Expectations [16:32]

Clients often expect designers to wear multiple hats—copywriter, social media expert, and more. Massimo stresses the importance of setting boundaries to prevent overextension.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [16:49]: "The control is up to you when it comes to setting boundaries... you are actually part of the problem if you don't."

2. Lack of Appreciation and Recognition [20:18]

Designers frequently feel undervalued, with clients viewing them merely as "pixel pushers." Massimo emphasizes the need for meaningful recognition beyond superficial praise.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [20:51]: "Our value isn't in the output. Our value is in our design thinking, problem solving."

3. Rapid Industry Changes and Uncertainty [23:08]

The graphic design landscape evolves swiftly with technological advancements like AI. Massimo encourages embracing these changes rather than resisting them.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [24:55]: "AI helps you get your work done faster. It makes you a more efficient designer."

4. Misalignment with Personal Values [27:05]

Designers may find themselves working on projects that lack personal significance, leading to emotional fatigue. Massimo advises maintaining a long-term vision to balance necessary "paying-the-bills" work with passion projects.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [28:24]: "The best, biggest designers... do take on the projects that align best with them."

5. Endless Need to Upskill [31:22]

The constant push to learn new tools and techniques can be overwhelming. Massimo suggests focusing on mastering essential skills rather than chasing every new trend.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [34:20]: "Do it the way you're doing it. Chances are you might be fine."

6. Grind Mentality and Hustle Culture [34:27]

The pervasive culture of overworking and constant hustle contributes significantly to burnout. Massimo differentiates between passion-driven hustle and unhealthy overworking due to undercharging.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [36:37]: "If you're hustling because you're undercharging... that's on you."

7. Death of Creativity [37:05]

Frequent revisions and client interventions can stifle a designer’s creative process. Massimo advises detaching personally from projects to preserve creativity.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [40:53]: "Creativity, put your heart and soul in that first one. Detach yourself from those projects."

8. Short-Term Metrics [41:00]

Focusing on immediate results like clicks and engagement can undermine long-term brand strategy, leading to dissatisfaction and burnout.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [42:14]: "Branding isn't about instant gratification. It’s a slow, long process."

9. Commodification of Design [44:09]

With tools like Canva and platforms like Fiverr making design seemingly accessible to everyone, professional designers feel undervalued and pressured to compete on price rather than quality.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [44:40]: "Our value isn't in the output. It's in our design thinking, problem-solving."

10. Accessibility and Always-On Culture [45:59]

The expectation to be constantly available through multiple communication channels leads to an "always on" lifestyle, exacerbating burnout.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [46:19]: "This whole always on culture is ridiculous. If you give them that, they will take advantage of it."

Strategies to Combat Burnout

1. Set Clear Boundaries [47:10]

Establish specific working hours and communication channels to prevent clients from reaching out incessantly.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [47:37]: "There is no design emergency in our space. Your job is not a 24/7 hotline."

2. Purge Toxic Clients [48:46]

Identify and eliminate clients who consistently devalue your work or demand unreasonable hours.

Notable Quote:

Sean [48:04]: "If you had customers like this, you'd be dead after this."

3. Work Smarter, Not Harder [51:16]

Streamline workflows, delegate tasks, and focus on efficiency to reduce unnecessary stress.

4. Charge What You're Worth [52:30]

Ensure your pricing reflects the value you provide, allowing you to take on fewer, more meaningful projects.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [52:36]: "Charge what you're worth. If you're getting paid four times more... bring it on."

5. Maintain a Long-Term Vision [53:04]

Balance paying-the-bills work with projects that excite and inspire you, ensuring sustained passion for your career.

Conclusion

Massimo and Sean wrap up the episode by reiterating that burnout is preventable. By setting realistic expectations, valuing one's worth, and maintaining healthy work habits, graphic designers can safeguard their well-being and continue to thrive in the creative industry.

Notable Quote:

Massimo [52:35]: "Burnout doesn't mean you're done. It's a temporary thing."

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Final Thoughts: This episode serves as a critical reminder for graphic designers to prioritize self-care, establish professional boundaries, and recognize their intrinsic value beyond mere deliverables. By addressing these core issues, designers can navigate the challenges of the industry without succumbing to burnout.

Transcript

[A]

That's the first thing in graphic design school should be. Okay, guys, you want to be graphic designers?

[B]

Yep. Boom.

[A]

Let's talk about burnout.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And let's talk about how to get around it, because, honestly, burnout is mostly preventative, and most of it is setting the right expectations for whatever it is that you have ahead of you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't forget that you're listening to the Angry Designer podcast, where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry. Bull. And what it takes to charge what you're worth and build badass, rewarding careers. In this episode, we're talking about the B word, burnout. We're calling out all the real reasons why designers feel drained and frustrated and ready to quit. And by the end of this episode, we're going to give you real information that you're going to learn why. Burnout is just about being overworked, because for some of us, that's actually kind of fun. And maybe the hard truth about feeling undervalued or overwhelmed and replaceable and key moves that you need to make to protect yourself and your sanity and take back control of your career. Before we get on with it, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter. Anger management for designers. Real stories, industry rants, no BS advice. This newsletter is going to keep you thriving in this crazy design world, so sign up on our profile or on our website. So grab yourself a drink and keep your eyes on the road. Hopefully both of those knock at the same time and lock in and get to work, because this one's going to hit you hard, so just don't get offended with it. Let's go. Oh, man. Shawnee boy.

[B]

Yo, Mossy boy.

[A]

Great to work with you right here.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

I think we can appreciate.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Appreciate what we do.

[B]

Yes, we certainly do. We certainly can. We appreciate the High West.

[A]

High West.

[B]

Had this before, right?

[A]

This is. This is a return of. Of good old High west bourbon from Utah. I mean, again, I was so blown away with it that first bottle. I wanted to see if I was dreaming or if it actually still holds. I'm serious. So let's. Let's, let's.

[B]

Let's. Let's test her.

[A]

See, I just love that. Dude. This might actually be my favorite bourbon. Like, I mean, okay, me, tad sweet, or am I just not just a little sweet?

[B]

It's a little sweet, but it's lovely. The aftertaste is amazing.

[A]

It is. It's. It's got. Got. It's. It's well balanced bourbon. You know, it's got A good bal. Have all the notes. You know, it's got the flavor a tad sweet. But right now, like, you know, obviously I like a lot of the big ones. You know, I like Blanton's. I. I like Angels Envy. You know, Maker's Mark is a little overrated, but I mean, regardless, I can't say for sure that I like any one of those more than this right now. This is, like, my top choice.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it's Utah.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

A bunch of people down south, they're gonna hate on me right now, so. Sorry, y'all.

[B]

Yeah, B. This is bourbon. This is bourbon.

[A]

Bourbon from Utah. It is. It's from Utah.

[B]

That's interesting. It's pretty good. So what's new?

[A]

Well, let me just. Let me just say I. We had a young fellow come in today. Oh, yeah, I think I mentioned him about a week ago. And he's. He's in college and he wanted. He was taking something architecture wise. He was heading down that road.

[B]

Oh, that guy that y. Y.

[A]

And, um. And he wanted to come here and talk, kind of get an idea of what this industry was because he said it was where he always hoped to go to.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And I was like, well, what didn't you like about architecture? And. And. And, you know, he was like, oh, it felt too restrictive. He's like, you know, I couldn't think out of the box enough because there was too many, too much constraints. Constraints. And he actually said that, ironically, that was last week's episode. And I was just. I'm like, trying to hold it back.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. And then, of course, I laid into him and I was like, look, dude, like, you got it all wr. Know, like everything is constraints. Doesn't matter what industry, but especially this one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And. And I feel bad because I think I may have painted a not so pretty picture for him because here I'm. I'm. I'm kind of ragging on him in a nice way. Right? Letting him know, like, dude, like, you know, this is a lot of work. And. And I go, yeah, you know, our environment's really cool, but not. Not all graphic design studios are as cool as this.

[B]

This is true.

[A]

Right? You know, yeah. You know, like, we're pretty casual and, you know, we only do content creation, but a lot of places aren't. And we only work 9. Most places work much later hours. And, you know, I was trying to actually give him a. A real idea of what the world was like, trying to scare up straight. Well, yes. Holy cow. Right?

[B]

Yeah. But.

[A]

But it's true. Because you know what I think? I think I was worried that I would give him the wrong expectation of what this is because you've gone too.

[B]

Far kind of thing.

[A]

No, but I mean, I was so concerned that I. I didn't want to be like, dude, this best.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're gonna love.

[A]

This is the best. Because I do believe that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at the same time, if he's already giving me his reason for. For architecture and wanting to bounce from that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is pretty cool field. You know, just the idea of that is great. I understood his points on it, but I didn't want him to think that this was a cakewalk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Because this space, like, it's just. It's not for the meek.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Not.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. Like, I mean, between clients and ours, there's a whole list of things. Okay. Which is pretty insane. And I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, our lives. Well, you know, maybe some people's lives are at stake or. Or they're at risk if they really let themselves physically.

[B]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. Like emergencies. Yeah.

[A]

Depending on how people take, you know, stress. Right. Because a lot of people hold it and hold it in, you know, and. Until it actually gets too much.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. And then it really can't, because there's been moments I've had middle of the night panic attacks.

[B]

Who hasn't? Everybody's done that. Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

It's absolutely validation there. Yeah. Like, this is the kind of thing where you're. This is that kind of business where there are a lot of snap decisions or not decisions, but a lot of clients coming out saying, jesus, I need this right away kind of thing. And you've got to do it. Right. Like, there's no.

[A]

It's just a lot to it. Right.

[B]

Not all the time, but there are instances where it's like, oh, well.

[A]

And it adds up. Right. And I think. And. And they don't teach enough of that.

[B]

They don't. They don't. Because you have all kinds of time to do your projects.

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Of course. And they always. They paint that it's this great world and it is a great career.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it. It's not without its flaws. And I mean, ultimately, all the flaws can be kind of like, you can. You can kind of push them aside and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, as long as you recog. Okay. But the reality is burnout is such a real issue in Our space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So there was a study done by Wetransfer. Okay. And you know, everybody's favorite, you know, file transfer program.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they interviewed hundreds and hundreds. I think it was thousands of like graphic designers globally. Okay. And 70. Over 75% of those people. Okay. Were experiencing burnout during that interview, which is ridiculous.

[B]

During. During the interview.

[A]

So they. Out of everybody. So they, they interviewed. Okay. It's a big number, what they interviewed. And 75% of the people were like, I'm feeling burnout right now. And there was another study by. I don't know if it was Creative Hut or something, but it said 80 over. Over 80% of the people they interviewed said that they experienced at least 1. One day of burnout a week. Kind of a weird way to go about it. And I get it sometimes I get. I, you know, like by Thursday night, Thursday nights, my night. Like, don't, don't expect anything fancy from me. You know, Like, I'm usually mush. And that's when I'm like, I have to just kind of unwind Thursday night. So I get, I get what they're saying. But burnout is such a huge part of this space. And it is, it is a part of graphic design.

[B]

It is. Yeah.

[A]

Right. Because again, it's draining. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I think it's something that not enough people, they don't. Well, if they talk about. They sugarcoat shit. You know, what you should do is you should journal your feelings and get in touch and it's just like, fuck, guys, this is not legit. Yeah, right.

[B]

A full on spa day isn't gonna cure that.

[A]

Right. Exactly. And again, maybe this is some tough love in this episode.

[B]

There's no question.

[A]

Because I mean, we're not exactly known for pussyfooting around things, so some of you might actually get offended by this. Who've actually experienced burnout. But the reality is, I think by the end of this, everybody will get stronger by listening to this, will be stronger. Because you know what? It's. It's. It's not an easy thing to go through.

[B]

Yeah. Have you suffered burnout?

[A]

I think I've suffered a few times in my space.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Over the past 25 years for sure.

[B]

Did you survive?

[A]

Absolutely. I'm still fucking here. You know, and the funny thing is right now I can genuinely say that I think I've mentioned this before in this podcast. I think I'm creatively burnt out right now.

[B]

Oh, you are?

[A]

I genuinely feel right now. And I think I've been going through this the past year, but love the space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am now acting as creative director. I'm finding it a lot easier to help everybody else with their, with their journeys. I think my passion for the space has shifted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From the hands on doing, which is what I've loved to do for the past 25 years.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I love the problem solving part of the space. Right. And that's where it's like, you know, I had an interview with somebody and she said, what's your favorite part? And that was it.

[B]

That was the one.

[A]

My favorite part was when you, that aha moment when it's like, I know what the problem is and now I'm going to help you get that solution.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, you know, I think creatively, you know, I'm burnt out and I haven't, you know, it'll come back to me because, you know, I just, I just haven't put that effort into it yet. Right. To actually get my hands on and do this. But I genuinely think I am now. Yeah, Right. But I still love this space.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[A]

I, I, and in no way would I turn anybody off of it. I want everybody to be honest about it. And I have no desire to stop doing what I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. I'm just going to pick my projects and kind of ease into it. To the, to, to my pace.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. It's. And you're kind of afforded that opportunity by being the creative director that, you know what I mean? Like, you can kind of take yourself away from this a little bit and, you know, and kind of re. Center yourself.

[A]

But, you know, I guess, I guess if we were to go through a list of like burnout symptoms, I can't say I have any. Right. Like, you know, common symptoms. Right. You, you, every day, you hate opening up the design software, you know, Adobe. Just when you see that Adobe logo, it makes you crazy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or, you know, like if your creativity's gone. Right. I don't think it's gone for me. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In that sense. Right. As a creative director, it's definitely not.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that I'm not experiencing. I don't always, I don't always feel exhausted.

[B]

Oh, you don't?

[A]

Right. I don't.

[B]

Well, yeah, I do, but I'm.

[A]

But that's from over drinking. I mean, from work. Do you feel exhausted, Sean?

[B]

No, not from work. From work. I'm energized. It's just my old ass.

[A]

But do you really like.

[B]

Yeah, I get tired, but I don't think I'm a Healthy man.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But yeah, it's not because of the job. The job is, is definitely energizes me for sure. But I, but I, you know, use it all up by the end of the, the day. Right.

[A]

You know, we talked about before in the past, like procrastination being a good thing, but potentially signs of burnout is if, you know, you're procrastinating to start projects because you just don't want to. Right, Right. And again, procrastination is a great tool if used properly.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, so I don't, I don't, I don't have that kind of symptom.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

You know, I'm not irritable and resentful towards clients any more than I have been the past 25 years. So that has to change. Right. And it's like, you know, I don't engage in, in, in toxic behavior any more than I already do. And what I mean by that is I'm not like, you know, drinking excessively to escape from problems or doing drugs or becoming argumentative. You know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not becoming a talk. So these, these are common signs. I'm not doing that. Right. I'm, I'm definitely not losing my confidence in what I'm capable of doing.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. You know, and, and, and ultimately I don't feel disconnected from work. I still genuinely look forward to every single work day. Yes, I do.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So this is why it's like I say, I'm burnt out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But in actuality, maybe I'm not because I don't, I, I don't, I don't list. I don't have any of those symptoms. Right. I'm, I just, maybe I'm just going through a phase right now where it's like I'm, I'm more energized by other parts of the space other than the hands on doing. Maybe that's Right.

[B]

And I don't think that's, that's a bad thing with, I think as we get older we have a natural progression away from that kind of stuff into the more top of the biosphere of what graphic design is. Right. And I think that's where you're, where you're landing. Like you said, the problem solving. That's a, that's a big deal.

[A]

And that's probably my most, I think I'm so excited about it.

[B]

And there is nothing wrong with, with being a specialist in that. Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I'm pretty jazzed about this podcast too.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty jazz. But, you know, and again, I think, I think, you know, because I'm not feeling any of those. And so maybe I'm not actually burnt out per se.

[B]

No.

[A]

However, if you guys are experiencing any of those, I mean, again, these are big. These, these are common.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very common signs that you could be burnt out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or, you know, like you could already be burnt out and not even realize not know it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So, so what we're going to do is we've got. You got 10, you know, reasons, you know, and these are the most popular reasons that these were surveyed. Okay. From over. Over. Okay. Like, it was like 7,000 people were surveyed this. Okay. And I'm on a newsletter, so I hijacked some of this information and I added some of our own on top of this. But this is legit. Out of this giant survey I went through this, I'm like, legit, legit, legit, legit. Right. And we're going to do our own spin on this. Okay. Because again, so we've got 10 reasons why designers feel burnout and the hard truth bombs that go along with this shit. Okay. Because again, you know, I agree with a lot of these, but at the same time, it's like, you know, is this self sabotage? Okay. Is this self touch?

[B]

Oh, all right.

[A]

You know, one thing I want to, I want to clarify though, is most people think there's this myth, okay. That burnout is. Occurs from being overworked.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that sounds like that would be the reason why somebody would be burnt out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But in actuality, it's just a myth. Okay. Overworked doesn't necessarily cause burnout.

[B]

No.

[A]

And the reason for that is because, you know, if you have the right clients, if you have the right pricing in place. Right. You have, you know, the, you set the right boundaries. So nobody's calling you at 12 o'clock at night asking for changes to a project. Right. You know, you could work 12, 14 hours straight on projects that you're passionate about. God knows I've done it for many years. I used to do that. Right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Overwork doesn't necessarily translate to being to. To burnout. It's everything else that goes along with it. That is. Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Passionate, high performing graphic designers that they commonly put in long hours. Okay. Look at, like, the sag meisters, the Jessica Walsh, all the, all the designers that are actually living and breathing in New York.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're pulling all these crazy Hours and shifts. And this not because they have to, because they, they want to do it.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

And, and that I love. Okay, so that, so overwork doesn't necessarily mean, you know, like, because again, you can easily be energized and easily, you know, versus being drained.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, so that's a myth. So that's not even on this list.

[B]

Oh, it's not. Okay.

[A]

It's not. That's the myth. Okay. Right off the bat. Okay, so, so reasons, 10 reasons why. Okay. Designers experience burnout. Number one, unrealistic expectation.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

Okay. And this was a twofold. Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So obviously everybody's going to be like, oh yeah, my, my clients these days, they're asking for too much. They expect me to be a designer. They expect me to be a copywriter, a social media expert, plus, you know, answer phones and, and understand this and be a mind fucking reader.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And it is true. Right. Like if you, the truth bomb to this whole thing is, of course, you know, that will lead to burnout. The truth bomb in this situation, though is, you know, the control is up to you when it comes to setting boundaries.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With these customers. Right. Okay. And, you know, it is up to you to set this. If you don't set these, if you don't set these boundaries and put them in place, you are actually part of the problem. And you are going to lead yourself down that, down that cliff road.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay. And again, there's nothing wrong with the client expecting you to do all these tasks. Okay. This is another, you know, another truth bomb to this whole thing. Right. Unrealistic expectations on the customer side is one thing, because they will always ask, but the reason why they always ask is because they want one partner.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They don't want to have to go to a social media company to do this and go to a video company. If they can find one person to do, one person that can do all of this. Right. They're, they're going to, they're going to push the luck and see if they can.

[B]

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't mean you have to take their, their, their calls and work on weekends. Right. It's up to you to set those boundaries. But you can't blame the client if they want to give you all of their work.

[B]

Exactly. And hey, bring in a friend, you know what I mean? Like network. And, and you could very well create your own agency from this kind of thing. Right?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or be look at it as a performing freelancer. So here's the other, you know, the Other edge of the sword on this, you know, expectations. Right. Or the unrealistic expectations. I think also graphic designers are probably leading school. Okay. Or they've got some sort of attitude that, you know, they're thinking, I'm only, you know, doing this to design. I wasn't asked to do copy. I wasn't asked to do social media. And so all of a sudden, it's like, you know, the. The graphic designer admittedly only wants to be a pixel pusher.

[B]

Yes. Oh, yeah, Right.

[A]

And the thing is, again, going back to what the client needs, that's really unrealistic. Okay. If that's your expectation as a graphic designer to sit there and just, you know, design all day. Okay. And design your kind of project, you.

[B]

Do the stuff that you want to do.

[A]

Don't even touch PowerPoint people. Okay. Like, it's. I did not become a designer to do PowerPoints. Like, get off your high horse. Because what clients are going to want.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Whether it's an expectation or not is somebody to help them with all aspects of their design.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So you know what? You know, you guys need to get off your high horse here and realize that the future designer is going to be a renaissance designer. They're going to be expected to do more than just a pixel. Like, be a pixel pusher.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want to. You want a niche and be a specialist. Go to it.

[B]

Go for it.

[A]

I'm so blessed. Hey, you know what? Be a logo designer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And that's all you do. Be just a PowerPoint designer. Right. Rock on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But if you want to be a graphic designer and think that you're going to spend your life, you know, designing content. Creating content on a regular basis, be prepared to be able to take it all on. Yeah, Right. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

Job security totally makes you more.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. Why do one job when you could do 10?

[A]

Well, boy, when you put it like that, Sean, that sounds like it's not.

[B]

All at once.

[A]

Some days. All right, so that's. That's number one. That's number one. All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The number two reason. Okay. Why people felt burnout, lack of appreciation and recognition. Okay. Which. This one I thought. Right. Like, sometimes customers, they're known to think of us as just pixel push, literally. You know, we can make things look pretty here. You can. You can make this thing look much more pretty than I can. Right. You know, clients don't actually spend enough time thinking or realizing what we do, you know? And what we do is obviously a Lot more than just make things look pretty.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. It does go much more deeper than that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, but the reality is this isn't fucking kindergarten. And, you know, we're not working for participation trophies here.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay. We don't need a good job every time you do something. Right. You don't need, you know, like a good pat on the back just to complete your job. Right. This is a business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is what you are expected to do. Right. And until you actually get, like. Recognition is great. When you get it from the right customer.

[B]

It's awesome. Yeah. But you know what? The thing with that, my favorite kind of recognition. Hey, that works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I got greatly. I got incredible leads from this. Right. Recognition is great, but it's not guaranteed.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

And if you kind of go into this, you know, expecting that, you constantly need to be reassured. A pat in the back, you know, Good job, good job, good job. Whether it's from your customer, whether it's from your manager, your creative director, dude, this is not the right space for this.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Because again, you know, you. You want real appreciation in the space. Okay. Charge what you're worth. Get a good salary. Right. Get everything in place. Right. And work with clients who respect you. Gain that expert status.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They might not always be like, boy, Sean, you know, you. You rock, and I couldn't do this without you, but they will treat you like an expert.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's recognition.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's what you need.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I don't think anybody gets a good job.

[B]

Very, very rare, Right? Yes. Yes.

[A]

You know, you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You can get the things that worked great, you know, worked well with the customers, all that stuff. Sure, that's fine.

[B]

Yeah. And that's the kind of stuff that. I mean, this is. This is the reality of this sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. You are doing a job to provide a service to a client. Yes. And if that job that you provide works for that client, then that's the. That's the accolades that you get. That's the reward.

[A]

That's your. Exactly right.

[B]

So expect a pat on the back, like you said. Yeah.

[A]

So true, dude. It's so true. And it's shocking that that was actually on this list.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So people feel that way. All right, Number three. Okay. Number third reason why graphic designers burnout. Okay. Rapid industry changes and uncertainty. Okay? So this. This is. I get this, right? This. This space, it moves fast. Oh, God, dude. And, you know, in the past 25 years, this. We've seen the world go from print to digital, and Then we saw the introduction of social. Now we see print coming back. Right. Like, and this is only in a 25 year span, which in all fairness is not long. There's a lot of other in between. Okay. This and then AI and then nowhere.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, this space moves very, very, very fast. And it can be really overwhelming.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Especially technology wise. Right. It is really overwhelming to keep up with it on a regular basis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, there's no question with this. Right. But you know, in my opinion, the truth bomb on this one. Okay. Yeah. It's a lot to keep up with. Okay. But the designers who complain about the keeping up with everything are the designers who, you know, who spend so much energy on the negative, miss out on the positives. And what I mean by this is, you know, when Zed factor started, okay, the first, you know, three, four, five years, just print, that's that, that's all.

[B]

That was it, right? Yeah, that's, yeah.

[A]

Web. It picked up. It was a big thing. And I knew a lot of print or a lot of design agencies that were like, oh no, fuck it, we're not doing that. We're sticking to print.

[B]

Flash in the pan. Yeah.

[A]

They disappeared. Yeah. Within years. We're still sticking around 20 years later in this same space as they would. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, you have to adapt because again, this, that's the whole point of what it is that we do is, is media keeps ev thing and adapting. Right now people are so, you know, they're fighting AI. Designers are reluctant to move to AI, but the reality is AI helps you get your done faster. Okay. It makes you a more efficient designer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Stop complaining about the that's going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get on and actually get on with it. Do it, learn it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because you will, you will evolve with the rest of the space.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't, don't worry about the technology that's evolving. Okay. You're the one who has to worry about evolving. You're evolving with the industry. And that's a good thing, guys, because again, this is what we need to do. Good designers are adaptable designers. Right. And we keep evolving year after year after year after year. So, you know, I, again, I, I, I, I find that as an excuse. Okay. It's, it's, it's, sure, it's, it's pretty bad. It's, but I do think it's weak. It can be tiring.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

But again, I think that's just a change of attitude more than anything.

[B]

Yeah. I kind of look at stuff like that. Like it's exciting, you know, because.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We. We came up with, you know, like, clip art and. And you remember, and photos on disc, and it's like, oh, this is awesome.

[A]

You know, but true.

[B]

But so the same thing with AI. It's like, it's. It's a great, helpful tool to, you know, for research at the very least, you know.

[A]

Very least.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And so think about what we've gone through. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What we've gone through. We saw, you know, print go to digital, then we saw social come in, then we saw PR coming back, and then the introduction of AI. Like, now it's a whole clusterfuck of everything. Okay. And that's been in. In 20, 25 years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The next 20, 25 years, what do you think's gonna happen?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And this is it, right?

[B]

I'm not even gonna try and predict different experiences.

[A]

We're getting augmented reality experiences. Right? You're. People are going to be walking around and ads and. And ways of just catching their attention through their glasses going to be everywhere.

[B]

Right?

[A]

People are going to have infotainment systems in their cars that are probably going to be advertising to them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not driving.

[B]

The cars are driving.

[A]

Right. Like, I mean, again, this is the way the world is evolving. TVs are getting bigger. There's going to come a point where now it's like a. Hey, you know what? You can get a free tv, but we're going to give you ads all the time. Okay. On the side of your tv, on the bottom of your tv. Right? Like, this is. You just expect, what, the next 25 years. So the thing is your. Your little moment in time, okay. That you want to hold on to. It's. It's. It's pleadia.

[B]

Dude, don't.

[A]

No, you can't.

[B]

Don't get attached. No, no, no.

[A]

All right, Number four.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Number four. Reason why. Why graphic designers feel burnout. Misalignment with their personal values. Okay? So this is an interesting one that I thought, because again, and I'm not surprised to have to have read this one, okay. On this list, because graphic designers are empathetic. Designers are empathetic on a whole.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So when we get into something, the real good designers don't just get into it because they think it's going to be a cool industry. Those. Those designers usually disappear when they're gone, you know, three years. Right. People come in and they start because they're looking for some sort of meaningful work. Okay. You know, and. And now it's like after two, three, five years, they realize that, dude, all I'm doing is, is designing all this soulless, you know, stuff that doesn't mean. Doesn't mean anything to me that I don't care about and stuff. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this can actually build up to people and actually create this whole burnout situation from this. So, yes, I get it. You know, not everything is always going to be, you know, the most exciting projects you get.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And fine. And that's what I was telling that kid today. I was like, you know what? Like, you know, you're still designing. You're not always going to be designing the coolest project. You're not always going to be doing, you know, the best jobs.

[B]

Yeah, but.

[A]

And I. And this is, you know, legit. I told them 75 to 80% of the work that happens here, unfortunately, is to pay the bills.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Right. This is the unfortunate evil. Once you get better, you know, fine, you might be able to trim that down to 70, 60, 50%. But the real, the reality is if. If you've got these relationships with customers, you've got to expect that you are going to be doing just a lot of repeat materials on a regular basis. And that's okay, because that's the material you should be looking at as paying your bill material. You know what I mean? When you get the exciting stuff, you can live and breathe through that. Right. Shit. If you really hate that pay the bills, you know, work that you're getting, get it to a point where you can hire somebody else to do it for you and just take a small cut. If you are above that kind of shit. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Like, if you are miserable with every single project that you get. Okay. It's, you know, let's put it this way. The best, biggest designers, they don't just take on any project. They do take on the projects that align best with them, that they're most interested in. They can pick and choose.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But they had to get there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And you need to be able to see that path to get there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to be cognizant that you're gonna have work almost on a, you know, three days out of the week, maybe even four days out of the week. That isn't going to be the sexiest work.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But you're not working retail.

[B]

No.

[A]

You're not selling insurance.

[B]

You're not digging a ditch.

[A]

You're not digging a ditch. Okay. So this work might not be what you got into it for, but you have to have the onset. You have to have the long term vision that you're working for that goal. And for those customers, dude, it took like over 15 years of me grinding and doing and working for bad customers before we realized our niche. And then we started picking all of our clients. And it doesn't mean they were perfect clients.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

But they were the clients that I wanted to work on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then all of a sudden, every job was an awesome job. Whether it was a social post, whether it was a banner. Yeah. Whether it was a trade show booth or a flyer. It all clicked at that point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I had to go through 15 years of health, so. And I don't regret any of it.

[B]

Yeah. Then, yeah, that's, that's the ne. The necessity or the, the necessary steps that you have to go through for this, this kind of stuff to get to that.

[A]

To get to that point. Right.

[B]

But still, I mean, I like those minute details and those stupid things. Yeah.

[A]

They just.

[B]

I'm the PowerPoint guy and you know what I mean? And it's like, I, I can find gold in that stuff. Stuff. It's. You still. You're still a designer. It's layout.

[A]

It's. And it's nice if you treat it that way.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like, say that a PowerPoint has to be like a bar at the top, a logo in the bottom corner, and bullet points on page. Exactly. Those things look like art.

[B]

Well, no, I am not like that, but some people will turn their nose up to that kind of stuff. And I'm like, wow, don't be above that. I would never be above anything like that. Because there's always something interesting to find in any project that you do.

[A]

Agreed?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Number five.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Number five. Okay. Reason why graphic designers burn out. The endless need to upskill. Okay, One thing. Because our industry constantly is on the move and everything's changing. Right. You're. You have to learn all these new skills, you know, you have to learn all these new. You have to learn the. A new way to be doing something right. Because you know what? Apparently what you've been doing all this time has been wrong. Okay. And that's a lot of pressure to go through. Right? Like, you know, it's like you, you, you thought you were, you know, doing a great job in Illustrator only to watch a social media post from your favorite designer to find out, is this what you're doing? You're doing this wrong. When they put a song to make you feel dumb and do it this way. Way. Right? And you know it's funny. It's funny that we're making it fun, but again, there is this constant pressure to have to kind of dig deeper and dig deeper and dig deeper, you know, and trying to find these apps.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

The reality is, and I mean no disrespect, because God knows, you know, we love people like James Bernard and, you know, like the White Wizard. Right. And again. And when I need to learn how to do something, I will go and figure it out on his. On. On his.

[B]

He's the guy. Yeah. That's where you go. Yeah.

[A]

But again, I don't take any of it personally, because the reality is, when you see a video that says, hey, you know, are you doing half tones wrong? Do it this way, and it shows you how to do a half tone. And then an hour or two later, there's another guy who's showing you another way to do a half tone, because apparently that guy was doing it wrong. And then you find a third, and it's just like, dude, let me stick to my way of doing a half tone. It maybe might include two, three, four extra steps.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I'm only doing a half tone once every month, so for sakes, I don't have to constantly feel that, you know, I'm constantly learning and I'm behind. It's exhausting.

[B]

I am so glad to hear you say that, because I. I look at this stuff and I'm thinking, well, the way I do it is wrong. And you're right. There are extra steps, but I've done it so many times that I can. Could I do it as. I can do it as fast as.

[A]

That, but the final product is the same.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

It's exhausting. And this isn't up. This is no fault of a graphic designer, but to get caught up in watching all these videos. Right. And believing this, it is exhausting. And if you ask, if you're feeling like, oh, my God, I gotta learn this, on any given week, I'm. I'm seeing 5, 10, 15 new things, and I'm like, holy, that is a faster way of doing it. And in two months, when I need to do that, I'm gonna try to find. I will do that. Yes. It's not gonna happen, so. So keep that in mind, guys. Okay? There is this constant push, this endless, you know, push to upskill and upskill and learn how to do everything. Yeah, but you don't necessarily have to learn how to do it. Always this new, better way.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Do it the way you're doing.

[B]

Do it the way you're doing, chances.

[A]

Are you might be fine. Okay. It's a really big chance. Number six.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Reason on why graphic designers get burnt out. Okay. The grind mentality and the hustle. Culture.

[B]

Oh, oh.

[A]

As soon as somebody says culture, I.

[B]

Know you know, that's.

[A]

But it's.

[B]

Follow that. Yes.

[A]

Okay. Because again, you know, everybody, you see this all over the place. Right? Oh, you want to have this fancy car, you got to work late. You got to put in the hours. Oh, look at me, I'm in. I'm on a beach doing design looking, and I'm working everywhere. You know, it's like, if you don't follow this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're lazy, you won't make it, you won't succeed. There's a lot of pressure.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To keep up with this. Right. And in all fairness, it can be trying.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I can genuinely say I do remember working on a regular. I don't think I've ever worked like an eight hour day in my life. If I had a 40 hour work week. I used to refer to a 40 hour work week as a part time week. And it's true. I still do think. And somebody said 40 hours, I'm like part time on it, but it never felt like work. Oddly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know. Okay. Granted, lately my hours may be trimmed back a bit due to outside of work reasons.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But again, at the same time, what people need to realize is working 50, 60, 80 hours a week doesn't necessarily make you a better designer. Okay. Graphic designers need to realize that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You can burn out that way, but it doesn't necessarily make you that better designer. Okay. Yes. Hustling is fine if it's what you love. Okay. And again, I loved it. Which for me was a pursuit of passion. So when I was working late, you're young and hungry.

[B]

It's different.

[A]

It was really fun. It was cool. Right. And I enjoyed it. It pumped me up. But it's not necessary to be a better designer. Okay. If you're grinding, you know, here's the catch. Okay. And this is what everybody needs to realize, and this is the truth bomb. Okay. If you're hustling and grinding because you want to, because you're passionate, because you love it. Good.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you are hustling and grinding and. And working your ass off because you're under charging or because it's like you quoted five hours and it's really 25 hours or there's scope change and you're not getting paid for that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dude, that's on you.

[B]

Yeah. Or some stupid culture, dude. Or is telling. Telling you. Yo, you gotta. You gotta hustle, man. You gotta hustle out there. Yeah, no, that's not the case. Yeah, yeah, it's back to the. What you said about the clients. Exactly. Like, better clients, you know, you won't have to do this.

[A]

Better clients, you know, being better prepared. Right. In the sense of, you know, when you take on a job, when you're quoting a job, right. Like if you're not prepared and you. You are. Are not in a place where you're quoting properly, dude, then focus on that.

[B]

Yeah. Get that fixed. Yeah.

[A]

Versus trying to hustle and hustle and hustle just because you keep up.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Because if you keep up and you're working eight hours a week because, you know, or 80 hours a week because you under quoted jobs and this and that. Dude, that's. Again, that's. That's on you.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's not a reason why. So don't blame the hustle culture if it's all on your ups.

[B]

Yes, that's right. Good point. Good point.

[A]

All right. Nice number 7th reason why graphic designers burn out. The death of creativity. That one sounds scary. But this is legit, dude. You know, you have to admit that when you have, you know, some customers are great.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Some committees suck. Okay. And then when your kids, mom's husband, who you've never met, had a sister who is a graphic designer and they're trying to look at the. That you designed for a favor for the school committee. Dude.

[B]

What?

[A]

Is it real? Yeah, no, I'm actually. I avoided that. I avoided that project. I avoided that project. Smart move. I was asked not once, not twice, three times. They keep asking. They keep asking. Jen, all right. They keep asking her, can he do this?

[B]

Would he do this?

[A]

Would he do this? It's like, no, no, he won't. He won't. I won't. And. And again, because I know what that is. They would kill the creator project. They want a pixel pusher. They don't need someone. And I'm not being a snob, if they want a design solution, they want something great. Right. But again, the. I. The fact that, you know, certain customers or certain committees or whatever, they'll take your idea and they will crush it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And not because they have a better idea, but because they feel they need to add their layers on it. They need to make a decision on it. They need to kind of. Of build on it. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Keep in mind, okay. Everything has to Be on brand. Okay. Everything has to be, you know, within the brief. Right. That's all right. That's fine. Right. You know, you shouldn't take any of that personal, you know. And again, when it comes to accepting jobs for your kids, school for the parent committee. Okay, well, you're. What do you expect that they're going to stand up and applaud, you know, you for your awesome work or, or.

[B]

Just, yeah, you do it, whatever.

[A]

That's what they're going to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're going to take your first concept and not say anything and be happy.

[B]

And it's perfect as is. Let's go.

[A]

That's the problem here. Right. Like again, it's like, you know, it's one thing that, you know, you want to be able to create, you know, for yourself. That's the truth bomb. But the reality is the jobs you, you accept. Okay. You've got to take every single job with the, with the foresight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That. Okay. Somebody else is going to look at this and look at this and they're going to give us their opinion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And if you're designing something ridiculous for your kids, school for the parent committee, you know that they're going to be coming back and chirping on this. If you are designing something that is going to be critiqued by a committee, you know, damn right. That there's going to be some opinions on there and it's going to be many rounds of revisions. Many. So again, the death of creativity is one thing and I mean, I get it, but at the same time time, realize this is a job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So creativity. Put your heart and soul in that first one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And if you accepted that job, see that job through and, you know, bad on you for agreeing to doing a committee job or a school job. But, you know, the reality is you need to realize that there's, you know, at the end of the day, you know, detach yourself from those projects.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just use them as keeping the lights on.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Minimize how many revisions they have. Oh my God. Big time. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Number eight. Okay. Number eight. The reason why people, you know, graphic designers get burned out.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Short term metrics. Okay.

[B]

Oh, Jesus.

[A]

So many people are just looking for the here and now. Okay. There are companies are like, they're more interested in clicks and engagement and you know, well, this is trending right now and this is getting a high level of, of, of, of, you know, interest in people. So do it that way, do it that way. Right. And that really sucks. Like the cheap, fast, you know, templated garbage is, is creating, is killing really well thought out, you know, design thinking.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And that's a problem on a whole. Okay. And I do sympathize, I empathize. Okay. With people on this one. Okay. The truth bomb here is this is based on the clients you have. Okay. So in part, it's like you almost have to, you know, look at the client you have and think to yourself, what are they going to expect from me? Okay. Big brands, they don't jump on trends.

[B]

They don't do this stuff.

[A]

Okay. Our biggest customers don't ask us, hey, I just saw a guy last week twerking on the side of a bridge. Can you create me a social post on the guy twerking on a bridge? Because they know that a brand is a slow, long process.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And to build that branded team takes years of okay. Material. Right. So, you know, again, you know, you have to realize that although data is really powerful and it's important. Right. Branding. Branding isn't about instant gratification.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And people got to remember that. Right. You, if you're tired of doing these short little bursts and short little trendy things, right. You've got to look at your clients on a whole and look for the clients who actually value long term branding.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

If you want, and you just want that fun little trendy stuff, then find those customers.

[B]

Okay, that's.

[A]

But yeah, don't, don't be blindsided on this one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Don't think that your short term little trendy customers who only care about the here and now are interested in hearing a long term brand strategy. So again, this is up to us to avoid. So there's no reason to feel burnt out if you understand who that client is and what they're looking. Looking for.

[B]

Yeah. If you're, if you got a client that's in there, you're chasing every trend that comes out. You're, you're.

[A]

How exhausting.

[B]

I, I know that would be terrible. But you got a client that has a consistent message consist with that that goes with their brand. That's going to be far easier to manage than so true than something that.

[A]

Erratic like and far more gratifying.

[B]

And way more gratifying because you can.

[A]

Build on something long.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I don't get excited by one off projects. No, I don't, I don't. I, I like even if a customer just comes to us with a single website project, I'm trying to figure out how to build it out for 24 months. Right. And again, okay, here's your website, but this is part two, here's part four, here's part eight, and here's the social campaign, the promotional campaign to go with it.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

I might lose me a couple customers, but it definitely gets us a couple big ones.

[B]

But that's, but see that's the thing is if, if somebody isn't in it for the long haul, do you want that customer?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's just a one off kind of thing. Not, you know, just do it.

[A]

Kill it and bill it.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Kill it and bill it.

[A]

All right, number nine reason why graphic designers get burnt out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The commodification of design. Okay. So this is a real problem with technology in the way it is right now. Okay. Technology has made everybody think they're a designer right now. Okay. Everybody. Because tools like Canva fiber, it's like, honestly, it's like design is almost like this easy thing and if you are trying to. She must be really good. But the reality is, you know, if you are trying to compete with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. On a regular basis. Right. You're dead in the water. You can't compete with this stuff. Only because of the economics of their hourly rate. Okay. Number one, AI built ones runs forever. Okay. Then you got fiverr with platforms, people are charging five bucks an hour, ten bucks an hour. You can't compete with that shit. But the question is why do you want to to compete with that stuff? Okay. Don't try to commoditize what it is that you do for a living. We're graphic designer, we're designers, okay. Our value isn't in that, that output. Okay. Our value is in our design thinking, problem solving. You know, this is where customers find value in what we do. So don't compete on that. You know, bottom scraping barrel. You don't want those customers. Right. So again, if you don't compete for those customers, you don't have to worry about being burnt out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Over this whole commoditization of design part. Right. Let, let them do that.

[B]

Yeah. Let that sort itself out.

[A]

You don't want to be a pixel pusher.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Plain and simple.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

All right. And last but not least, okay. Number 10 reason. And this, this might actually be, in my opinion the number one reason why graphic designers get burnt out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. We are just two freaking accessible. Okay? And what I mean by that, we got slack. Oh, we got my messenger. We got emails, you know, direct messages. They hit us up on our phone if we're stupid. We Give them our. They're texting us. Okay. Seriously, it's like, you know, this whole always on culture is ridiculous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. How many times clients are asking, oh, well, why don't you just give us your slack? And this way we can.

[B]

Can.

[A]

We can be on with you in case we have questions during the day. And my response is always the same. If I was like this with all my customers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would never have a chance to work.

[B]

Wouldn't do anything.

[A]

And they have to realize this. Like, we absolutely ban that here. Absolutely. I'm not into. I'm totally. I have no interest in doing that. Right. Can you imagine? It's like all of a sudden, it's like, hey, I just. I just looked at the. Can you do a quick revision right here? And I have a customer who, for the record, I have been trying to fire for the past two years. And he just keeps. And again, constantly texts. Yeah, but I never respond. I never respond.

[B]

Oh, you don't.

[A]

I never. It's funny. If. Even if I have to respond to his text, do it in an email. I will not respond to his text.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Right? I'll do it in an email during my time.

[B]

During your time.

[A]

Okay. And that's how you have to combat this. Okay. Again, understand that you have to set hours, you have to set expectations with this customer, with all your customers. Stop acting like you're a on call doctor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because again, there's no design emergency.

[B]

There we go.

[A]

There is no design emergency in our space.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Your. Your job is not a 24. 7 hotline to get this done. But if you give them that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They will take advantage of it.

[B]

They will.

[A]

They will be DMing you, they will be slacking you, they will be messaging you. And it's a very slippery slope. But that, in my opinion, is probably the number one reason why designers burn out.

[B]

I can totally see that.

[A]

If I had five, six, eight customers like this one guy.

[B]

Yeah, dude, you'd be.

[A]

I'd be dead after this.

[B]

You're absolutely right. That's all you would be doing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You'd be sitting at home, you'd be out with your kids and you. And you'd be texting these people. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[A]

So you know what? The reality of this. This business, okay, It's a pressure cooker, man.

[B]

It is. It is.

[A]

We. We have to deal with. We have to deal with tight deadlines. Tight deadlines.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Crazy customers, then vendors that they're dealing with. Right. And we're constantly on the go, which, to me, I love But I get it. Right? Like, it's. It's. This is the industry that, you know, you don't want to just, you know, clock in, clock out at an easy pace. This is pretty great. Right. But the thing is, you know, burnout isn't just about, you know, bad clients or industry trends. Right. Like, the reality is it's all about how we let this affect us.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And how we react to it on a regular basis. Okay. Because let's face it, no matter what, there's always going to be bad customers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's always going to be people who devalue design. There's always going to be, you know, new technology advancements. Right. And this. This happens all the time. Right, Right. If you don't set those boundaries, okay. For yourself, not just for those customers, for yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You will be feeling burnout on a weekly basis. All the time. All the time. And this goes for bosses. This goes for, you know, like, you know, clients who are, like, unorganized and throwing on you at the last minute.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You. It's not your fault to fix their mess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every single time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And while that might be a compliment at first, when they're like, oh, I can always rely on you to. To save the day. It's up to.

[B]

You don't want that.

[A]

If you want to save the day every day.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

For the same type of person. Okay. And that's the reality. Because if that's the case, they are so unorganized, they're not going to change their ways. And you don't want their problem behavior to become your problem. That's the reality.

[B]

Because will.

[A]

Absolutely. It will. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So again, are you. Are you. Are. Are you gonna make those changes? Are you gonna put in boundaries, or are you just gonna keep grinding until you burn out and, you know, be like, it's a badge of honor. I burn out?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if it's a badge.

[B]

Of honor to be. I wouldn't consider that a badge of honor. Too scary for me. Right.

[A]

I don't want.

[B]

I don't want to risk anything like that. That sounds. That sounds awful. I've. I've had moments where it's like you're looking at a. At the. At your Adobe Illustrator, your empty page, and you're just like, come on, think. Come on, think. Come on, think. And that's scary as hell.

[A]

Scary. It is.

[B]

But I like. I like when you open it up and it's like, oh, I got an idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's just like, I. There's. I was doing one thing for one of our clients is like, I couldn't stop, dude.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was just like, oh, oh, how about this?

[A]

I'm on fire. And then you get excited. I've got one of those projects right now and I don't want to stop.

[B]

Oh, that's.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

I know. I don't try to sneak away from the kids just to go see some work. It's really weird. But how long? Those 10 hour days are great. But for real, okay? Ways to, to beat burnout. Okay. Most of them are preventative. Okay. You have to set boundaries and actually stick to that. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to work hard, smarter, not harder. Okay. Purge those toxic customers. Purge those, those ongoing, you know, problems. Streamline your workflow. Right. Work smarter on this. Okay? You want to be able to take back your creativity. Okay. Honesty, take back. Get those projects that, that got you excited in this job. Okay. Don't just take everything, you know, always, forever and ever. Despite that they're shitty clients, shitty hours, shitty timing.

[B]

You're better than crap, right?

[A]

Yeah. Don't even bother comparing yourself to everybody else. You know, there's a better way to do this, there's a better way to do that. It's too, it's just too much on your system. All right? Give yourself realistic expectations. Okay. And that's. You yourself personally understand what it is that you're getting into. Okay. That'll make you feel so better. And last but not least, charge what you're worth. Yes. Because you know what? Even all said and done, if you were to get the weight of the world put on you and you hate every second of it, if you're getting paid four times more than anybody else out there because you can do figured out how to, to make that, you can deal. Okay? You can deal. Never mind that one job. Got me and my family this trip, got me these new kicks, got me this new outfit.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Bring it on.

[B]

Bring it on. This is awesome. Yes.

[A]

But seriously, I think, you know, what people need to remember is burnout doesn't mean you're done.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's. It's a temporary thing, which is. And, and these are 10 fixes that you can, you know, that you can get around.

[A]

Definitely. Well, 10 reasons. 10 reasons. Sorry. And like six. Right. But again, you know, it's, it's so much of burnout. So much of burnout is preventative.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And I think that's the key. And unfortunately, they don't teach that in school.

[B]

They do not.

[A]

I don't know why.

[B]

I don't understand.

[A]

That's the first thing. In college, in graphic design school should be. Okay, guys, you want to be graphic designers?

[B]

Yeah. Yep. Boom.

[A]

Let's talk about burnout.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And let's talk about how to get around it. I know you don't know how to design a logo. I know you have no idea about layout design. But I'm going to teach you about the most important thing, and that is avoiding burnout.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because honestly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Burnout is mostly preventative and most of it is setting the right expectations for whatever it is that you have ahead of you.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Don't forget that.

[B]

Don't forget it. It's crucial.

[A]

Anyway, I think we understand what I thought about it. Should be preventative. Needless to say.

[B]

Yes. Absolutely.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, dude, that was a little bit nuts to say the least.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But I hope you guys found some value in this, because you know what? If you're feeling burnt out right now, address this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And seriously, take what we said to heart, because I'm not going to tell you to journal your feelings. I'm not going to tell you to, you know, like, like, you know, you know, look at your clients and see if you connect and try to, you know, reason. Honestly, dudes, this. Dudes and dudes, it's all about you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And you need to have the right expectations leading into this. Because if you do, honestly, long hours are nothing. Okay. If the expectations on your side. Okay. Are all met and you understand what it is that you're actually getting in.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, everybody.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative. I want to be the greatest everybody on the fake. I look around I feel like I everybody is the fake is I make this every day and I'm impatient hoping one day I blow up from the basement statement the top is so vacant I don't hear that I think is amazing waiting for my day when I'm playing sold out shows where a thousand faces hey, give me that crown. Get in my way and you'll be put down it ain't your place all this my town if I want that then I'll get it right now I'm losing it the no it fits some loose a stupid myth you choose to live or choose to dip you choose to fight or lose your grip and lose a gift off I feel like I'm losing my mind everybody in the world die Please lord, give me a sign A sign.