Cracker Barrel’s $700M Rebrand: Logo Design Fail or Brand Fail?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer

Episode: Cracker Barrel’s $700M Rebrand: Logo Design Fail or Brand Fail?

Release Date: September 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, hosts Massimo and Sean dive deep into Cracker Barrel’s controversial $700 million rebrand—a move so poorly received that the company reverted to its old logo within a week. The hosts examine not just the design itself, but the wider context: how legacy brands can confuse modernization with genuine progress, and why alienating a loyal customer base can be fatal. The episode explores whether Cracker Barrel’s debacle was a design misstep, a brand management error, or both, and carves out 10 clear reasons why big logo updates often flop.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Happened: The Cracker Barrel Rebrand Breakdown

• Early Context
  • Cracker Barrel launched an extensive rebrand affecting not just the logo, but store interiors, menus, and campaign visuals.
  • Initial testing at 40–60 stores showed only a fractional (1%) improvement, despite a $700M investment.
  • As soon as the new logo hit national marketing, massive backlash erupted ([04:17]).
• Internet Backlash
  • Outrage spanned social media and even mainstream news.
  • The company quickly reversed course, restoring the old branding ([05:02]):

    "I've never seen like that so much. You know, and this, this reminds me of, you know, remember what the Gap did? ...Except there was no shitstorm like there is with this one."
    (A, 05:10)

• Parallel with Other Brand Fails
  • The hosts compare Cracker Barrel’s disaster to infamous rebranding failures like Gap and Eddie Bauer, emphasizing the dangers of "blanding": stripping away character for a generic, soulless look ([08:13]).

2. Design: Blanding and the Loss of Identity

• The new, simplified logo traded Cracker Barrel’s classic brown and yellow for a slick, minimalist black-and-yellow palette.
• Most notably, “Uncle Herschel”—the iconic old man figure—was removed, erasing the very personality customers loved:

  "The biggest thing that pissed everybody off is they got rid of...Uncle Herschel. By removing Herschel, they removed the personality behind this mark, which kind of turned out to be the essence of the whole thing."
  (A, 07:17–09:44)

• The visual update was seen as another victim of “sameness epidemic,” making the brand bland and unmemorable ([08:33]).

3. Brand Strategy Missteps

• Failure to Evolve Responsibly
  • The hosts distinguish between healthy “brand evolution” (incremental updates) and a dangerous, abrupt overhaul ([10:21]):

    "I've always been a fan of brand evolution... If your company has got any sort of cred, any sort of history, any sort of legacy, you need to tap into that legacy."

• Alienating the Core Audience
  • The rebrand was interpreted by loyalists as a rejection of tradition and long-term customers:

    "Imagine... you, my customer who's been coming here and help build this brand... needs to be modernized because you're outdated, sir, you should be hitting the grave anytime soon."
    (A, 11:11)

• Financial vs. Brand Issues
  • Despite unchanged sales, Cracker Barrel’s profits fell for operational reasons, not because of branding ([11:35–12:16]).
  • The hosts suggest the company mistook operational woes for a branding crisis, investing in the wrong solution.

4. The Emotional Nature of Legacy Brands

• The logo, mascot, and interior design carry years of emotional capital, nostalgia, and ritual:

  “This is a lifetime of memories... you can't just erase people's memories. And that's why people got so viral about this, why they went so feral about the whole thing.”
  (A, 15:49–16:24)

• Replacing these elements can feel like "betrayal" ([25:44]), and legacy brands should tread carefully.

5. The Ten Worst Times to Redesign an Aging Logo ([22:00–28:41])

A rapid-fire list, summarized here:

1. When the logo is the brand (e.g., Uncle Herschel).
2. When tradition outweighs trends.
3. When company stability is at risk (distracting from deeper operational problems).
4. When the brand's culture is hypersensitive.
5. When the old story is better than the new.
6. When no customer asked for it.
7. When the rollout has no conviction or context.
8. When you’re alienating your loyal audience.
9. When you confuse “outdated” with “iconic.”
10. When leadership can’t explain the change beyond “modernization.”

"The real question that brands should be asking is, what do our customers stand to lose if we refresh our brand?"
(A, 37:16)

6. How They Would Have Handled It

• Evolve, Don’t Overhaul:
  • Suggest incremental updates and responsive logo variations ([16:54–17:22]).
  • Retain and update Uncle Herschel, as KFC has done with the Colonel.

    "Never replace Uncle Herschel... KFC kept the Colonel. Wendy's kept Wendy. Why wouldn't a brand as long as deep rooted as this keep Uncle Herschel?"
    (A, 29:04)

  • Modernize without erasing core brand elements.
• Reframe the Narrative:
  • Leverage nostalgia: bring older and newer generations together under shared memories.
• Phased Rollout:
  • Test and tweak before a nationwide launch; use focus groups ([31:54–33:10]):

7. Recovery Suggestions

• The hosts argue Cracker Barrel can recover, but only if they reintroduce heritage elements and develop a strong, customer-focused story ([34:11]).
• The wordmark aspect of the rebrand was seen as a potential keeper if paired with a revised Uncle Herschel figure ([34:26]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They got rid of... Uncle Herschel. By removing Herschel, they removed the personality behind this mark, which kind of turned out to be the essence of the whole thing."
  (A, 07:17–09:44)

• "Brands aren't built on logos. They're built on memories. They're built on feelings, you know, rituals."
  (A, 15:49)

• “Loyalists don't forgive abandonment.”
  (A, 19:00)

• "Modernizing modernization is not necessarily progress."
  (A, 36:43)

• "The real question that brands should be asking is, what do our customers stand to lose if we refresh our brand?"
  (A, 37:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:01: Cracker Barrel's rebrand context, $700M investment.
• 04:03–05:10: Outcry reaction—comparisons to Gap’s failed 2010 rebrand.
• 07:17–09:44: ‘Blanding,’ Uncle Herschel, and identity loss.
• 10:04–11:35: Brand overhaul vs. brand evolution; dangers of abrupt change.
• 15:49–16:24: Emotional equity in the logo and mascot.
• 22:00–28:41: The 10 worst times to redesign a logo (with anecdotes).
• 29:04–31:46: Evolving mascots; learning from KFC and Wendy’s.
• 31:54–33:10: Advocating a phased, incremental approach.
• 34:11–36:43: How to repair brand soul and where Cracker Barrel might go next.
• 37:16–38:08: Closing insight: “What do customers stand to lose?”

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Tone and Style

Unapologetically candid, humorous, and direct, the hosts dissect Cracker Barrel’s blunder with a combination of storytelling, expert opinion, and banter. They frequently use industry jargon—like “blanding”—but break it down to practical advice for designers and brand managers alike. The tone is educational but never dry, always pushing listeners to consider the deeper, emotional resonance of logos and branding decisions.

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In summary:
Cracker Barrel’s failed $700M rebrand wasn’t just a design misstep—it was a fundamental misunderstanding of brand legacy, customer loyalty, and the difference between evolution and erasure. The emotional impact of “Uncle Herschel” should never have been underestimated. For designers and creative pros, this is a cautionary tale: Undervalue heritage, tradition, and customer memory at your peril.

Transcript

[A]

So Cracker Barrel just tried to rebrand, and in less than a week, it got dragged so hard down the Internet that they had to crawl back to their old 70s logo. But this isn't just about a restaurant chain. This is about what happens when a billion dollar brand confuses modernization with progress, kills the tradition people actually loved, and spends $700 million to alienate their most loyal customers. But here's the real question. Was this a design fail or a brand fail? Because what Cracker Barrel just did might have been the biggest identity crisis since Gap's infamous flop. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, we're going to break down exactly what happened, the mistakes made, and give you 10 reasons why not to update an old, outdated logo. Let's go.

[B]

All right, Cheers, Monfre.

[A]

Oh, bourbon.

[B]

Bourbon. That's pretty good.

[A]

Now on a good note. Wow, that's.

[B]

That's sweet.

[A]

Have you heard of a little company called Cracker Barrel?

[B]

No, never heard of them. What do they do? Wow.

[A]

Like, you know, I. I have felt, you know, we've had a few people reach out and be like, you guys gotta cover this. You guys gotta talk about. Yeah. And. And I'm like, well, you know, it's not really my place because it's such an American brand that you have to, you know, other than passing through the States, you don't get that longevity, the long experience, the long brain connection.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

Like, so I felt, you know, but the thing is, it's like looking at how it's played out. Well, now I'm like, I guess we can. We're not. Well, there's gonna be. We ain't gonna touch. But I. I think that this is another one of these just, like, you know, cultural sensations that is just. It's just taken the whole, like, how. How this whole rebrand thing.

[B]

Well, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's. Let's.

[A]

Let's get on with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But just as a reminder, anger management for Designer, our newsletter. Check it out. You're going to have a lot of this, a lot of that, you know, but I. I really want to get into this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, but you can still sign up for that on our website or in our social feed. It's awesome. It's awesome.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

Okay, so needless to say. Okay, so it was a chain.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

And what did you think it was? Yeah. So clearly I am not somebody who's qualified to talk about this brand. Because I thought it was cheese. Because up here we have Cracker Barrel cheese. And I swear it Used to be some old dude sitting beside a barrel. I swear. So I couldn't figure out why Buddy's making such a big deal about cheese. And needless to say, it turns out it's a fantastic, huge chain of restaurants that's been around forever.

[B]

I have eaten there once or twice. Yes.

[A]

See, I never have. Right. But I think that's why the perspective was interesting looking in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But again, giant chain, you know, they decided to modernize their brand. Yeah. And I think that's where this kind of all starts.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it was more than just a menu. Sorry. It was more than just a logo. It was menus, interiors. I guess there was a. A campaign that was associated with this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And what they had done is, is, you know, they did start some of this transition. Like 40 to 60 test stores.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Or test restaurants. And, you know, oddly enough, I mean, they saw. They said there was. They saw an improvement of 1% at that time. This. This brand overhaul caused $700 million. Holy. Okay, so if a company's complaining that their profits are down, you know, investing $700 million seems a little. But, okay, I get it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That seems a little nuts. But, I mean, it seems like they were chasing a modern demographic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It seems. It seems like most of their audience was, you know, older people, you know, but there was. There was a lot to it. A lot to this brand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's a lot of family. A lot of family stuff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And needless to say, they. They. They did the store thing, and that was okay. It was nice and quiet.

[B]

You know, you get away with that.

[A]

Right? You can. Right. Because it was just okay, you know, updating the decor, you know, like all that. But, man, when they unleash their new logo to the world. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I'm talking, like, poop hit the fan or what? Wow.

[A]

I have seen. And I mean, at first I was like, what is the big deal? Because again, I'm not attached to the brand, so I was only watching at a high level.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I actually didn't sit there and study this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But we're talking. The backlash, you know, came from so many online, offline, CNN freaking. It got, like, political. Like, it was. It was ridiculous.

[B]

Alan Peters talked about it on cnn. Yeah. Right.

[A]

But needless to say, like, I was just. I was blown away. And it was to the point where they have just come out and been like, okay, we're going back to our old logo. Our clients have spoken and we're listening to you. Well, they obviously weren't listening enough. Because they went down this road.

[B]

Right, Right. So was it a week? Yeah, less than a week.

[A]

Literally it was a week.

[B]

Just a week.

[A]

It was incredible. I've never seen like that so much.

[B]

Right. Wow.

[A]

You know, and this, this reminds me of, you know, remember what the Gap did?

[B]

How long did that last?

[A]

A week?

[B]

Was it a week?

[A]

It was a week too. And the Gap, for anybody who doesn't know, went from a similar brand experience, except I think the, the gaps was so bad it must have been a PR hoax. Like they must have did it on purpose. And they were like, you know, we know we're gonna piss everybody off and we're gonna release the ugliest freaking logo in the world. Had to have been.

[B]

But there was no shitstorm like there is with this one.

[A]

You know what I mean? But keep in mind that social wasn't around at that point.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Cuz that was in like 2008, 2010. Yeah. So social was. There was a shit storm because again, within a week they were as well. Right. But now it's like you can just sit back and laugh at this. So, you know, I kind of figured that this would be really cool for us to discuss. Not from a design perspective per se. We're going to talk about the logo design, of course. But I don't think that this was a mistake in logo design and so much. Maybe, you know, a brand miscalculation. Okay, Absolutely. I think that's where the fuck up was in this situation.

[B]

You are absolutely, absolutely right.

[A]

Because I mean, in all fairness, I mean, let's, okay, let's look at it. If, if, if I knew absolutely nothing about this brand.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

I knew nothing. I would look and be like, okay, they took an old 70s logo, okay. And they, they, it went through blanding, unfortunately.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like the logo, the, the new logo went overly simplified. It became boring.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, the color, it went, you know, from this, this, the fun brown that they had like the 70s style brown and yellow to like a black and yellow. Right. You know, yet I, I don't mind the word mark and what they did.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I feel that that was carried over pretty nicely from the old brand.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But you know, and, and then they claim that, you know, the, that the barrel now has been replaced with the background or whatever the yellow is, is a barrel. It's kind of a funny looking barrel, but yeah, you know, it looks more like a belt buckle to me.

[B]

Well, yeah, but it does. Like looking at it from the side, it resembles barrel. Yeah. I can, it seems like the biggest.

[A]

Thing that pissed everybody off is they got rid of who is called Uncle Herschel.

[B]

Did you know that before?

[A]

Well, because I'm not. I'm not with the brand. And this is why I'm saying I.

[B]

I had no idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What the story behind this was.

[A]

The story behind Uncle Herschel.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, please tell me, you know.

[B]

No, no, no. Like that. That he had a name and there was a reason for him.

[A]

There was. There was a whole story between him and behind the brand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, they also dropped the, you know, the. The tagline, the.

[B]

The old.

[A]

Which I thought was kind of good, like I thought that was. But the thing is, by dropping, you know, this Uncle Herschel completely, I think that was. That was the deciding factor. I think that's what pissed everybody off. It seems like it was. They were like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Right. So, you know, first and foremost, you know, the logo went through. You know, what we've seen so much the past decade is the blanding effect.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They stripped all the quirks out of the logo. They stripped out all the. All the fun things that. That made it, you know, authentic, that, you know, gave it a little bit of heritage. Like, they got rid of it. Like, that was a bad thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which unfortunately, is creating for a really fucking bland landscape.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In my opinion.

[B]

Anyway. Right.

[A]

Everybody keeps chasing all this minimalistic bullshit, and what's happening is now there's this. This sameness epidemic everywhere. Everything looks the same. Yeah, that's. And so, you know, I think that, I think really affected where these people were.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

You know, flat logos like this, there's no warmth to it.

[B]

You're right. Yes.

[A]

There's no personality. There's no, you know, craft behind it.

[B]

There's not a story behind that new logo.

[A]

No.

[B]

Right. And there's your. There's your fatal flaw.

[A]

Right, exactly. And we've seen that with brands. We saw that happen with Eddie Bauer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How sad was that? And ironically enough, when I went to West Edmonton mall and I saw Nettie Bower store, they still had the original Eddie Bauer script logo over top of the store. They didn't have this new cleaning. It was on some of the merchandise and it was on a poster. So it became a little confusing for somebody who doesn't know Eddie Bauer. But they'd walk through the strip and be like, why is there two logos? But regardless, right. You know, the thing is, by removing Herschel, they removed the personality behind this mark, which kind of turned out to be the essence of the whole Thing which kind of left nothing but a flat mark.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think that was, that was a big. So the blanding effect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really, really. Him over in this one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But again, that's from a design perspective.

[B]

Sure. Okay.

[A]

And again, that's. Like I said, this isn't so much going to be about the design, but this is going to be about their approach and, and, and the brand, I guess the brand flop, in my opinion here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, there is a. I'm obviously. And we've talked about this, right? You've got brand, you know, overhauls, Right. And then you've got like brand evolution.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

And I've always been a fan of brand evolution. I've been a fan of branding in general.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if your company has got any sort of cred, any sort of history, any sort of legacy, right. You need to tap in to. You need to tap into that legacy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because that's how brands are built.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They're built on this kind of stuff. So for them, you know, to all of a sudden do an overhaul, okay. Or in their. And modernizing it, right. They, they have literally like, you know, they've taken to a whole new level that has completely erased anything, Anything that they have built.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

So again, what, what does that do? Right? You know, they, they announced that it was going to be modernized. Well, imagine, you know, you're going to. Right. I'm going to modernize this because you, my customer who's been coming here and help build this brand, you know, is. Is. It needs to be modernized because you're outdated, sir, you should be hitting the grave anytime soon.

[B]

It's not wrong, though. That is an old clientele.

[A]

Fair. It is.

[B]

And they are not going to last forever.

[A]

Fair. But the funny thing is, and you know, looking at the numbers, okay, so from 2023 to 2024, their sales were the same.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So there was, There wasn't even a dip of less than a percent.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So any company during these times would think that's all right, that's good, they lost profitability. Their profits were the other way. No, they didn't say how, whether that was the cost. Food costs rising, maybe utilities, maybe staffing, you know, maybe a combination, maybe some really bad ad campaigns, maybe investing $700 million in a really shitty brand campaign. Just saying, needless to say, their profits dropped, but not their overall sales. So even though, you know, yeah, maybe this, their market, their clientele might be dying in the future and they need to kind of tap into this. It wasn't yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, you know, and again, it seems like that was more operational costs than it was anything to do with the brand. So, you know, again, you know, maybe their intentions were in the wrong place or their reasoning wasn't good, quite as clear as they thought it would be. I don't know. But, you know, you know, when you are, you know, announcing that you are modernizing your brand versus evolving. Evolving, you know, refreshing. Right. You, you, you risk alienating people. You, you definitely risk offending people. Because I think that's what happened in this situation is a lot of people got really pissed off over this one. When a brand, you know, when a company decides to rebrand.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know if they can rebrand completely. Okay. Without alienating their core market. I don't know if it's something that could be done successfully. Right. Especially when it comes to something like a logo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that logo symbolizes so much more than just, you know, the top of the pyramid for the brand visually.

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

People, they really are passionate about their logos. It means so much more. It's like they're looking to that and they're looking to their kids or their history or, you know, experiences with this brand.

[B]

There's tradition with that for sure. Absolutely. You and I both went to the website and we saw that janky logo up in the top left corner. Just looked like a, like a key, a P shaped blob that needs to be fixed. Agreed.

[A]

Oh, no. And, and, and I agree. And this is, this is where I think some of the mistake was like, you know, brand evolution when we talk about it. Right. Brands need to evolve with the times. This, that.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

Technically is included with that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That was not a responsive brand.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, that brand mark. And it needed, it needed. I saw so many more online variations.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So many other variations.

[B]

Yours, when we were talking in your office, you're just literally put the guy over top leaning on the K. That's it. It was, it was, it was a million times better. Right. Literally still there. You've got all the story, got all the history. Yeah. You don't have the barrel, but. Yeah, I don't think.

[A]

But again, the barrel kind of, you know, it kept it. You could still use the barrel of the, the shape of the background as.

[B]

The barrel story in the name. I think if Uncle Herschel was in there somewhere, Right. You would have, you wouldn't have this.

[A]

And literally all I did, I didn't even create a responsive thing. I cut him out, I leaned him against the Letter K. And it was.

[B]

Much better than what we had.

[A]

Right. Because it was still paying homage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To the history, the story, the legacy was still there. Yes, yes. And then going online, you see people then evolving it even further. Yes, they're doing it. They're making it responsive, vertical, horizontal. They kept, Herschel, they kept. It's just like there's so much more that could have been done that I feel wasn't done. And I don't feel that they explored it properly. I mean, again, I'm not 100 sure what their. What their intention was and why they went so simple on this one. But the. The reality is, you know, brands aren't built on logos. They're built on memories. They're built on feelings, you know, rituals. And there was so many crazy rituals in this place. You know, not only just breakfast, but they had like pegboards in there. They had crackers on the fucking tables, rocking chairs. People on road trips would like, literally road trip from one cracker Barrel to another cracker like these. This is a lifetime of memories. So this is why people got pissed off. And then when it comes to the interior, the interior, you know, was a complete Americana vibe, and that's what people love. Yeah, it was looked. Maybe it looked like it was grandma's kitchen or whatever, but you can't just erase people's memories. And that's why people got so viral about this, why they went so feral about the whole thing. You know what I mean? There's so much emotional capital built into a brand, especially one as long as this, that for them to just completely erase the visual, the person behind it, the warmth, the one that everybody associates with, that was suicide on their parts, big time.

[B]

This is the kind of thing where, I don't know, if I were Cracker Barrel, I wouldn't have waited 40, 50, 60 years to update.

[A]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

[B]

Right. You do it in incremental, in steps. Like you say, the brand.

[A]

Evolution. Evolution.

[B]

Not a fucking overhaul. Yeah. Not an overall.

[A]

I don't think any legacy brands like this could handle an overhaul. I don't know a single legacy brand, it's ever possible. Not to. Not to do an overnight like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm not saying you can't change. If you want to change, change, that's fine. But do it in increments. Just evolve with the times. Right. And again, imagine if you were to, you know, wake up as a five year old and then go back to sleep and wake up as a 50 year old.

[B]

That'd be pretty. Exactly right. But no, you Missed a lot, you.

[A]

Know, but, you know, what these guys did is that. That's exactly what they did. They didn't try to start reducing him. They didn't try using him in the corner or they cut him out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And by doing that, they completely alienated their loyal client. Basically, they're like. Everybody was like, don't you remember me?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm the person who's returning on a regular basis and who makes up 90% of the profits you make in this company. Right. Like, why are you alienating me? Like, and the crazy thing is, don't fucking brands like this learn like this. This isn't. Oddly, this isn't even the first time this year we've talked about massive brand failures, Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And again, you know, like. And it's not even about their reasoning other than them alienating their core demographic. Like, this year, we saw Bud Light alienating their core demographic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not saying what they did was right or wrong in any way, but they did, you know, alienate their core demographic. And look at the response there.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

And then again, so, like, I mean, that was. They alienated the loyalists that were behind their brand.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Jaguar, okay? They're a fucking car company. And granted, it's not the best car, but the reality is the people who wanted there were purists. And by them doing their overhaul, they lost the purity of the cats, you know, they lost the purity of the Jaguar, and they were. They turned into something else that again, the loyalists, they. They were like, what the hell is it? This isn't what we wanted. Right. And then Cracker Barrel, again, did the same thing by stripping away the tradition.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of their logo, which, again, is. Is baffling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On how they would do this.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

Honestly, loyalists don't forgive abandonment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the worry in a situation like this. It seems like Bud Light has bounced back.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

It seems like they just doubled up on what they did before.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's now, you know, passed Jaguar. I don't know if they're gonna have. Not so much. I don't know. Like, you know, but the thing is, it's like you can't modernize Grandma's, you know, kitchen table.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the problem. Right?

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's where all the magic happens when Grandma comes and gives you that, you know, that experience that love the apple pie, the cookies.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is what you want.

[B]

Right? Right.

[A]

Needless to say, you know, alienating, you know, your core demographic, regardless what the reasons are, alienating them in the snap is the wrong way to approach any, okay, brand overhaul, let alone a logo overhaul.

[B]

Ok?

[A]

There are right times to do this and there are wrong times to introduce a new logo, okay? And I'm not saying rebrand because in all fairness, there have been some incredible, you know, successful rebrands in history, okay? But there's more to a brand than just the logo, ok? And again, because it takes so much more to do this. Okay, so, so we got a list here of like, you know, 10 worst times to replace an aging logo.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

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[B]

Okay?

[A]

Replace an aging logo.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Because in the past we've given advice why, how to recognize and make recommendations. But when it's time. Yeah, this is the other side. Yeah, yeah, these are the worst times because they're literally living through this right now.

[B]

Right? Right.

[A]

So you know, number one, worst time to replace an aging logo? When your whole fucking logo is the brand.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Because this, by erasing Herschel, they erased, you know, the symbol, the very symbol that everybody identified with this brand with.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Just no brainer.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

You know, when tradition outweighs the trends, okay? The trend like again, audiences, they don't necessarily want sleek, you know, soulless logos. They, you know, they like the comfort of familiarity, which is why for so long, it's probably why this logo has lasted as long as it has. Because let's face it, it's a pretty old and bad logo on its own.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't know, I just, I'm like this, it needs, it really needs to be redone.

[A]

It does need to be redone, but I don't think that the other.

[B]

They did it, they did it absolutely wrong. And we'll discuss better versions coming up. But, but yeah, it needed to be done, but not the way they, not.

[A]

The way they did.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, another reason is when the company's stability is at risk. Okay, so again, when LEGO went through this, okay, they almost went bankrupt.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They didn't just change the LEGO logo because they, they're smart enough to realize the logo's not the fucking problem going on.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

So companies do something like this and they're like, hey, here's a brand new flashy logo. It's kind of like a beacon that's trying to distract people from deeper rooted issues, often operational issues, financial poor, whatever. That's kind of what this felt like.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Although they were maybe over cautious.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, they, they weren't fixing the core problem. And the core problem at that time wasn't necessarily the identity of the brand because again, they were able to make the same amount of money year after year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was their operations that were falling.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So by them going down this road, investing this absurd amount of money into a rebrand, there's probably better ways to have done this.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Needless to say, you know, their stock dropped like a hundred evaluate $100 million, which is incredible.

[B]

Okay. But it's since kind of bounced back a little bit now.

[A]

I think it has, I think it actually went worse than 100 million.

[B]

And then now it's starting to climb back up.

[A]

When they did the, when they, when.

[B]

They said, when they said, we're going back. I know.

[A]

You know, you want to put a value on a logo. There you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's an actual value.

[B]

Literally. Yes. It could make or break your company. All right.

[A]

Another reason, man, this one's a no brainer. When the culture behind the logo is hyper sensitive. Seriously.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

We've seen this so many times. Nothing outrageous. You know, you're then like, that's nuts. And yeah, that's what happened here. That's what happened with all these other brands. So I got another one here that I thought was really great, personally. When you don't have a stronger story than the old story.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

There are some old stories that maybe people might want to bury. Fine. Okay. But if your new, you know, story doesn't match up, it's just like, hey, we want a new demographic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or anything like that. You need to tread cautiously on replacing the logo altogether. The beacon of your brand in that sense. All right. No brainer. But, you know, don't change an aging logo when nobody's asked for it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Again, this is where there's probably a better way to go about this. They could have made this a lot more responsive.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Nobody was asking for a new logo. Nobody was looking for a modernization of the brand. This is true. So, you know, uninvited change kind of feels like betrayal. It doesn't actually feel like progress in a situation like this.

[B]

Fair. Fair enough.

[A]

You know, when the rollout itself lacks any sort of conviction or context.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Kind of goes along with that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that's what happened here. When the weak messaging behind why they did it, you know, follows it makes kind of the. The moves you made kind of clueless. Makes people like us and like the Internet going, why the hell did you do this?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, obviously, you know, we've said this so much, but when the loyalists or the audience gets alienated.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Absolutely. You know, do not change the logo. If you're gonna get rid of half your market, two thirds of your market.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can't alienate your core market. Yeah. That's ridiculous.

[B]

Banking on getting a new, younger market.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I'm saying? You are trying to appeal to somebody else. Yeah. That's not the way to do.

[A]

The way to do this. When you confuse outdated with iconic. Oh, okay.

[B]

And that thought of that.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why it's like, he doesn't bother me nearly as much as he bothers you, and that's fine.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But you know, what looks old to some people might look timeless to others. So by completely overhauling it, changing. I'm sure if somebody. I'm sure if they were to make him a freaking 3D character looking like he's from Pixar, I don't think that would have gone over well either.

[B]

Right. Really? I think that would be cool. Wow.

[A]

That's kind of funny.

[B]

Well, it's like the KFC ads. I don't know whether anybody watches TV anymore, but they have ads where they have different comedians playing the colonel.

[A]

That's kind of fun. That's a campaign though.

[B]

I guess that's.

[A]

Yeah, I think you're a little bit.

[B]

More flexibility there with that kind of stuff. But you could do something like that.

[A]

Well, you can definitely.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or, or introduce it or take him and put them in all these different scenarios. Absolutely. There's an option there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. But again, what some people deem is like old and outdated. Other people are like timeless. It's iconic. It's, it's our, it's our leader, for God's sake.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When we come here. So, so I think that's another one. And again, and I think the big one is when the leadership behind this brand overhaul can't really articulate why they're doing this beyond the words modernization.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because again, you know, if you can't sell the vision, okay. How do you expect people to be okay with this change?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I do think that, you know, obviously we've said when there's times to change a logo, but I think these are legitimate reasons or worse times to replace an aging logo. Not saying that this one should have been replaced because God knows it should.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

And I got some strong opinions on how this should have played out.

[B]

Yes. Right.

[A]

And I mean, there's no. So, you know, first and foremost. Okay, first and foremost, never replace Uncle Herschel. Even a name like Uncle Herschel sounds like everybody wants an Uncle Herschel. You don't replace him. You know, KFC kept the Colonel.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Wendy's kept Wendy.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Why wouldn't a brand as long as deep rooted as this Uncle Herschel? I don't think he did anything bad in history that he's being, you know, like hit on, reflected right now. Poor guy. He should have evolved him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They should have symbolized, you know, they could have taken Uncle Herschel, okay. And took him to the next level where it's like, you know, where tradition meets the future, you know, and maybe had, you know, kind of played up on, you know, how he can be your uncle too, and how this is your family's place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, it was easier for them to try to nix him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I thought get rid of him just to get rid of him all together. But again, it's such a core figure of this brand. They should have evolved him. Yeah, they had to keep him in the. I thought that was ridiculous.

[B]

See, like, like we talked about before with a nice, a nice headshot or something like that. Like, like the Colonel, how he's done all stylized and, and beautiful, you know, who he is. You know, what's going on. That's. That's perfect. You've. You've. You've kept your history intact because everybody knows who the hell that is. Yes. And. And you, You've. This is a. That would be the better way to do this. Right?

[A]

Because again, let's put it this. There companies spend billions of dollars of evolving their mascot, okay? Having a company mascot is so incredible for the brands that have jumped on it early and who own it. So why would they kill this guy?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Horrible, horrible mistake. So again, I would have kept him and I would have evolved that guy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would have made Uncle. Uncle her. Everybody's.

[B]

You would have cleaned him up from this garbage?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Absolutely. Just like, hey, the Colonel is pretty cleaned up right now.

[B]

Right. But used to look like he was very detailed back. He looked like that.

[A]

Exactly. I would have reframed the story.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, I get it if they want to be, you know, they want to go on about like, hey, we want to attract new, younger audience, and that's why we're doing all this. But you know what? Their. Their whole new story didn't bring back any of the nostalgia that people grew up with. This was an opportunity where, you know, the new brand could have.

[B]

Have.

[A]

Could have embraced it and been like, you know, you've been coming to us as a child for the past 40 years right? Now you can bring your children here. You know, we can evolve. We can evolve together. Let's face it, Cracker Barrel is never going to be a nightclub. They're never going to be slinging drinks and having girls dancing on the bars. This is just not the brand. But I mean, again, they. They could have reframed the story to embrace the nostalgia behind the brand, right? Instead of try to nix it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like they were trying to hide from something. So again, I would have gone down that approach. Right. No brainer. I would have done a phased approach.

[B]

A phased approach. There you go. Right?

[A]

Like, let's. They were testing 40 to 60, you know, locations that they overhauled.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

They. They were testing it before this whole thing went public. They were testing these. This is where some of the money.

[B]

Went and what came out.

[A]

Crazy enough, there was less than a 1% uptick in business in those 40 to 60 stores that they did. It was. It was like nothing. It could have been anything. It could have been the wind blowing in the wrong direction and people getting down whiffed of the smell of the place. Like it was so there. So clearly There was things that they need to work out at that level before they tried. Well, that's not working. So let's just introduce a new logo and every location over, like, again, no brainer here. A phased rollout would have been. And again, if they were curious, bring in a focus. Spend a million dollars on a focus group.

[B]

Yeah. Apparently, they got enough to go 100.

[A]

Million to play with, so. So again, there was so much more in how they could have done this, I think. You know, and again, the funny thing is they were getting frustrated about their 1%, because, again, they were. Were comparing themselves to other brands. Like, you know, Chili's, where I guess Chili's was seeing 3, 4% up. You're like, no, don't worry about that. You have other shit to figure out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So use a phased approach.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Don't just jump in like you did.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, most importantly, you know, evolve the brand. Okay. I get that they felt like they had to do something quick. Not sure why.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Because the numbers showed that it was operational issues.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Right.

[B]

They have. They have two, three years of Runway. Yes. Over there.

[A]

So many opportunities here that they could have done.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Versus what they've done is now they've. They've tainted the experience. Oh, now they're. Now they're.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And now it's like, are people gonna accept whatever now comes down the pipeline? Because sad. Sad to say that, you know, there's been some words that were slung. There's been some fake media, fake news, fake. Fake words. I don't even know anymore what to believe, and I don't know. And this is coming from somebody who doesn't even really pay. Like, I mean, so much has been talked that I think they're stuck now for a little while.

[B]

I think they are.

[A]

And for a little while, maybe for a long while.

[B]

Like, I mean, I think this is a long while.

[A]

Like, I don't. I don't necessarily think it's a death sentence.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think it. I think if they could come back and spin it, like, look, you know what? You know, we made a mistake about Uncle Herschel. We didn't realize how much people. People, you know, and put a good story around it and then include him in another. Because, let's face it, I like the word mark. I thought the word mark worked.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And if it felt the word work, I felt the word mark was a nice brand. Evolution from the old.

[B]

Right? Okay. Yeah.

[A]

So now reintroduce our buddy Herschel.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Get that Thing responsive. Fix the website. Because you're right, you can't see the old logo. Right.

[B]

That was bad.

[A]

You know, I think, think. I think there is a chance to recover from this, but I don't think it's going to be easy because this was so negative. I've never seen anything like this.

[B]

I know. It's absolutely crazy, right?

[A]

Absolutely. I think, I think they obviously, they realize they have to keep the soul, you know, of what they had. And I mean, and this is one case where Blanding really didn't really. It went the other way.

[B]

And. And I guess the, the kind of takeaway that I have from this is I didn't realize just how important this brand was to people. You know what I mean? Like. Like it's crazy. It is, right?

[A]

Insane.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's just kind of one of those things where I thought, it's just a restaurant. There's so many restaurants in the US.

[A]

Like, yeah, yeah, you. I mean, I was like, hey, well, it's okay. It's just like Bob Evans.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like.

[B]

Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.

[A]

I got my ass smacked for saying it was just like Bob.

[B]

Oh, did you didn't know.

[A]

And again, it's not a thing.

[B]

Right. But Bob Evans has the same kind of idea in the story behind. Absolutely. But it's a little more modern.

[A]

It is. And I think that they've kept up with the times where, where I do feel that maybe Cracker Barrel could have done a better job keeping up along the way.

[B]

I think that has been the big. Yeah, that's been the big problem.

[A]

And that's the issue. But I mean, I think, I think the lesson here, you know, is, you know, it. A logo is not disposable.

[B]

No. Right.

[A]

It is the beacon of a brand.

[B]

Yeah. There is some weight.

[A]

There is. And a brand is more than just a logo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And that's, that's the big differentiator. A brand has got history, memories. Brands are personal. My experience with Cracker Barrel is different than your experience.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I thought it was cheese. And you actually went to.

[B]

It was actually a restaurant. But it's true. Right.

[A]

So it's, you know, it's about the things that matter most with the brand. So you have to tread lightly. And the easiest, the best, the. The most, you know, straightforward way of doing this is doing a phased evolution approach. Don't overhaul it, don't break it. Because modernizing modernization is not necessarily progress.

[B]

No.

[A]

And it's not gonna help you out of any sort of financial situation in a situation that's true.

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

Obviously. Clearly.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It could do way worse damage.

[A]

Seriously. I wrote something down and, and. And I think I want to leave this at. Instead of asking, okay, how do we refresh our look? How do we refresh our brand? Okay, how do we refresh? The real question that brands should be asking is, what do our customers stand to lose if we refresh our brand?

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

If we refresh our logo. And again, all the flops that we saw this year was to be game. Right.

[B]

Well.

[A]

And they weren't looking at the end user.

[B]

Right.

[A]

At their customers, their core demographic. So what do they have to lose? And in this situation, you know, clearly showed that Uncle Herschel, man, there was a lot. He obviously resonated with a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's if people fought for him and they didn't want to lose that part of this brand. So, again, mind blowing from an outsider looking in. And I wasn't trying to disrespect by any means, and I hope we didn't disrespect. But again, I think this is just yet another lesson that it's like blanding doesn't help, you know, and you guys, you can't around with your brand. Damn.

[B]

Very, very important.

[A]

Holy cow.

[B]

Wow. Or. Or if you're going to up your brand, do it in an evolutionary kind of way. Right. Over the course of time. So people really. Yeah, right. Subtleties.

[A]

They don't do it in a slow, steady pace that people just.

[B]

They don't realize that you messed up the brand different. Is there. Is there less detail in Uncle Herschel? Yeah, I'm hungry. I don't care.

[A]

Oh, dude, listen, I'd love to hear from everybody else on this one, you know, and again, we're looking from the outside in. And again, I thought this was intriguing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I thought this was amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think it was a design fail. I think this was a brand fail for sure.

[B]

110.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why I'd love to hear what else there was to say. But, yeah, let's get into it. You know where to hit us up? We're on Instagram. Great conversations happen. We're on YouTube. Great conversations to happen, you know, and you can hit us up directly on our website. And again, don't forget about our newsletter, because a lot more of this, you know, except in a different format with a lot more stuff that, you know, a lot more fun surprises.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean Steak Rid of St. Greg.