Fiverr Replacing Graphic Designers with AI and WHY Real Design Still Wins!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer

Episode: Fiverr Replacing Graphic Designers with AI and WHY Real Design Still Wins!
Date: October 7, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, hosts Massimo and Sean dissect Fiverr’s recent decision to lay off a significant portion of its workforce and pivot to an “AI-first” company, exploring the deeper implications for the graphic design industry. They cut through the corporate spin, examining how platforms like Fiverr have commoditized creative work, trained clients to expect bargain-basement prices, and may now be exploiting designers’ portfolios to feed their AI tools. The hosts emphasize that AI isn’t the true villain—rather, it’s the platforms weaponizing it at the expense of creative professionals. They offer strategies for designers to take back some control, including practical uses of AI to protect their own intellectual property.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fiverr’s Pivot to AI – The Real Story

• Event Recap: Fiverr recently announced layoffs of around 250–300 employees, claiming to “return to its roots” and shift to an AI-focused model.
  • Massimo describes the corporate message as “romantic bullshit” hiding a harsh reality: “So they’re firing 300 people…becoming an AI-first company, which, again, there was just so much bullshit in what…so romantic.” (01:51)
• Cost-Cutting, not Innovation: The hosts argue that the move isn’t about innovation but about slashing costs and maximizing profit as a public company.
  • Massimo: “The translation of course is…this is like cost cutting...they’re going to be squeezing freelancers even more.” (02:54)

2. Fiverr’s Legacy: Exploiting Designers & Devaluing Work

• From inception, Fiverr exploited the global economy by breaking down labor boundaries—paying designers minimal amounts, especially those in developing countries, and setting a damaging precedent.
  • Sean: "It's basically rooted in that [exploitation], is it not?" (03:31)
  • Massimo: “They never ever respected designers at all. They just figured out how to commoditize designers.” (03:34)
• Race to the Bottom: Fiverr trained clients to expect $5 logos, which snowballed into industry-wide devaluation.
  • Massimo: “This whole five dollar economy, this gig economy…that was all them.” (04:28)

3. The Stigma & Long-Term Industry Impact

• Stigma Lingers: Even as prices rose and Fiverr introduced “Pro” features, the $5-stigma stuck, devaluing not only design pricing but clients’ respect for process.
  • Memorable Quote: “Your logo is worth a fucking latte.” (07:35)
  • Massimo: “Now it’s like, 3, 400 bucks is out of the question. We’re going down to 50 bucks. You want my business, it’s 50 bucks. And that really sucked, right?” (08:42)
• Globalization’s Dark Side: Fiverr allowed clients to sidestep concerns about offshore work by masking the true source via an American platform, further destabilizing domestic creative markets.
  • Massimo: “They would go onto a platform like Fiverr…and feel good…by doing that, it reshaped expectations…” (07:00)

4. The New Threat: AI Trained on Designer Content

• Scraping Designer Work: The hosts reveal their deep dive into Fiverr’s Terms of Service, uncovering that anything uploaded—portfolios, gig samples—can be used to train AI models.
  • Massimo: “Gives Fiverr broad rights over uploaded content…for promotions and internal purposes…may include usage for AI model training.” (11:22)
  • “Your portfolio, your gig samples…[are] the fuel that they’re going to use to train their AI, right?” (12:15)
• Industry-Wide Ethical Crisis: Not exclusive to Fiverr—Upwork, Canva, Adobe Stock, and even WordPress also reserve rights to use uploaded content and user data for AI training.
  • “Upwork retains usage rights…Canva uses anything uploaded unless you explicitly opt out…Adobe Stock…WordPress content…can and has been scraped for AI training.” (16:08–17:25)

5. Who’s to Blame?

• AI as a Tool, Not the Villain: The hosts stress that anger should be directed at companies, not AI itself.
  • Massimo: “AI in theory isn’t the villain here. It’s just a tool.” (18:53)
  • Sean: “This is people doing this kind of stuff…We could have AI as a great tool and still do the human route.” (18:24)
• Platforms Are Weaponizing AI: The hosts liken it to guns: “Guns don’t automatically go and kill people…It’s people in nefarious ways…hurting people. But the tool itself…is nothing.” (19:02)
• Call for Accountability: Designers should be much more critical of the companies exploiting AI rather than blaming the technology itself.

6. What Happens When AI Fully Commoditizes Creative Work?

• Mass Layoffs’ Trickle Effect: As designers are pushed out of platforms like Fiverr, they re-enter the market, further undercutting established designers and muddying pricing expectations.
  • Massimo: “You’re going to have all these…Fiverr designers…they’re going to flood the market…they only know one thing—undercut.” (22:17–22:23)
  • Sean: “It’s a lot of fucking noise.…it’s going to create a lot of chaos.” (22:32–22:35)
• The “Convenience-vs-Control” Dilemma: Designers rely on convenient apps and platforms to run businesses, often without reading the fine print that surrenders their content and rights.

7. Taking Back Control: Practical Advice

• Leverage AI to Protect Yourself: The hosts champion using ChatGPT to “translate” legalese in terms of service, helping designers spot risks.
  • Massimo: “ChatGPT is an expert on legalese…You copy the terms of service…ask Chat to...highlight anything…for AI training, marketing or internal purposes. Also identify who owns the rights to my work…” (27:03–28:21)
  • PRO TIP: Use prompts like “Summarize the risks in plain English.”
• Build Control Measures:
  • Regularly download and back up your own work and data outside of platforms.
  • Make sure you’re not locked in by restrictive terms—know what you’re trading for convenience.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They took creative labor and turned it into like a factory.” (04:35, Massimo)
• “Your logo is worth a fucking latte.” (07:35, Massimo)
• “Now they’re devaluing [design work] even more. Five bucks for a logo…we’d rather keep that for ourselves and build an AI app, which is horrible.” (13:16, Massimo)
• “This is business at its worst.” (12:48, Massimo)
• On AI: “AI isn’t the villain here. It’s these platforms like Fiverr, Adobe, Canva. They’re the ones who are exploiting.” (19:22, Massimo)
• On Terms of Service: “Nobody ever reads the terms of service. Nobody ever does. And the reality—it’s not even in a language we understand.” (26:47, Massimo)
• Green Lantern Analogy: “Like the Green Lantern ring. I’m sorry, just came back from Comic Con weekend…my mind is still there.” (32:25, Massimo)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction: Fiverr's layoffs and AI pivot | | 03:17 | Fiverr's exploitation and commoditization of design talent | | 07:00 | Fiverr’s effect on client expectations and the global labor market | | 11:22 | Deep dive: Fiverr’s Terms of Service—how they can use designer content for AI | | 16:08 | Other platforms (Upwork, Canva, Adobe, WordPress) using uploaded content for AI training | | 18:53 | Discussion: AI as a tool vs. company actions as the true threat | | 22:17 | Trickle-down effect: Laid-off Fiverr designers undercutting the broader market | | 24:14 | The hidden costs of convenience—data ownership and control in creative practice | | 27:03 | Pro tip: Using ChatGPT to analyze terms of service | | 31:01 | Three actionable tips for designers: be aware of risks, build control, and use AI as an ally | | 33:42 | Closing thoughts: Choose convenience wisely, use AI to protect your rights |

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Actionable Takeaways for Designers

1. Always Review Platform Agreements: Use AI (like ChatGPT) to summarize and clarify the risks buried in legal terms. Prompt: “Summarize the risks in plain English…”
2. Own and Back Up Your Content: Build systems to download and securely store your creative work, client data, and business assets off-platform.
3. Use AI as Your Ally: Don’t fear AI itself—instead, use it to protect your interests against predatory platforms.
4. Be Wary of the Convenience Trap: Remember that convenience often comes at the cost of control. Weigh these trade-offs carefully in your business.

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Final Thoughts

Massimo and Sean urge designers not to mourn Fiverr’s pivot or fear AI, but to step up, educate themselves on the hidden costs of online platforms, and arm themselves with knowledge and the right tools. The true path to security in creative work lies not in clinging to platforms but in understanding and protecting your own value.

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Hosts:
Massimo & Sean
“Stay creative and stay angry.” (34:51)

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Transcript

[A]

You clicked because Fiverr just laid off 250 people and says they're going AI first. Yes, true. And it's worse than it sounds. This isn't about a company pivot. Fiverr has been exploiting designers for over a decade, commoditizing logos, training clients to expect $5 work. They've tainted a designer's worth, and now they might be using the work sitting on their platform. Portfolios, samples, past projects to build their own AI tools. In this video, we're breaking down why Fiverr collapsing matters to every designer, even if you haven't touched the platform. But here's the twist. AI isn't the villain in this story. The real threat is much closer to home. And if you miss it, your career could be next. All right, all right, let's get to this, my friend.

[B]

What do we got here, Moss?

[A]

We. I've got.

[B]

Had this before. Yeah. Boy, that burns the nose. Stings the nose. Nostrils.

[A]

So because of last week's scotch letdown, I decided to go and debacle.

[B]

Debacle.

[A]

Surprise Sean with a little bit of a.

[B]

Yes, there's.

[A]

This is the real.

[B]

That's my jam.

[A]

This is what you think scotch is like, you know, when it. When it tastes like an ashtray, you know, you got something good. I don't have a lead in.

[B]

Well, you don't.

[A]

Today's episode. I. I just. I just want to say that I'm shocked at what I've read on the side of.

[B]

Yeah, so.

[A]

So what happened?

[B]

Get right into it then.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I. So I read an article yesterday and I'm not. I'm never on LinkedIn. I should be. Oh, this was LinkedIn. So I read the article, but then there was like all these, you know, second, third, fourth articles, and it was, you know, the founder of Survivor.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he's going on there giving this big. Preach and how they're going back to their roots and they're going in the startup zone and. And this was such a great romantic time for them. And they miss that. And so they're firing 300 people, 30% of their workforce, and becoming an AI first company, which, again, like, there was just so much bullshit in what. Oh, it's like, so romantic.

[B]

Yeah, we're going back to the. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So we're gonna go fire some people.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, by moving forward, we have to cut a whole bunch of people here. But.

[A]

But again. Right. And again, it was just. It was just so easy right there. Said and, ah, I don't even Know how I felt about this? Like, I mean I, I know how a lot of our angry designers felt about it. I put a post on of my opinions, my thoughts, why they were doing this. But again, they're going, they're going back to their startup days and turn AI first company, which the translation of course is, is this is like cost cutting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exact. Okay.

[A]

Because now they're, they're a public company. They, they went public six years ago and. But really they're going to be squeezing freelancers even more. But I think that they're going to be doing even worse than squeezing freelancers and that's what we're going to talk about a little later. Yeah. Because I think that it's actually quite devious what they're doing.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I think this is, this is classic, you know, corporate fat cat, greedy bastards kind of stuff. Right. But I mean, if you look at the, I mean right from the start though, it's got a history of exploitation.

[B]

Yeah, it's, it's basically rooted in that, is it not?

[A]

Well, I mean, in theory, yes. Because they, they were one of the first people to take advantage of the global economy. Right. They knew that hey, North Americans, the minimum wage there for a graphic designer, you know, is like 30, $40 an hour. But hey, we can go to these third world countries and pay them 50 cents an hour. And because it was their, their whole, they never ever respected designers at all. They just figured out how to commoditize designers. Right. So it really was, you know, based in exploitation right from the start.

[B]

Yep. And squeezing designers out of, you know, like, like the, the, the respect that we, that we command, you know what I mean? Like by cheaping it. Cheaping or d. Lowing it down to, I mean they. Five bucks.

[A]

Exactly. They were the ones that was their first thing was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Five dollar logos.

[B]

Why pay an agency? You can get it here. Right.

[A]

So this whole like economy, this whole five dollar economy, this gig economy, like you know that scale. Yes, that was all them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And again it was taking advantage and they, they basically took, you know, creative labor and turned it into like a factory. Yeah, right. And there was so. Which is funny because you know, a lot of people in our comments. Okay, I, I wasn't sure where the comments were gonna go. I was just like, what the is going on? So many people were like, good riddance. Oh, glad to see them go, oh f them. Never used it, never will. You know, and there was so much anger towards Fiverr, which is interesting because, you know, we've Had a love hate relationship with Fiverr. And. And what I mean by that is, I mean, obviously I've never used it for design.

[B]

I was just gonna say who.

[A]

You know, we've never used them for design. Okay. Obviously a lot of people do.

[B]

They do.

[A]

We have used it for. Sometimes it's like I didn't know where to get voiceover people, like people to do voiceovers and such, but I never paid $5 for one, so I don't understand where that ever came from. But so we would go on there and we would actually find voiceover artists right when we were doing a lot of the videos. And this goes back even pre Covid, that's how we found people now. Since then, we found better places. And then we, you know, we started using upwork and stuff. And so there are better places, but that's how we used it. But you. Again, it's. It's like everybody was very against fiber and had anger towards it, and they didn't feel bad about what was actually happening, which is kind of shitty in that sense, because it wasn't so much, you know, the company sucks. Yeah, fine.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's like they were like, good to see a lot of these designers go, and. Good to see a lot of these people go. I don't know. It was kind of funny.

[B]

I think that's kind of sad. Anytime somebody loses a job, it's not good.

[A]

But, you know, but. But I think it was. It wasn't so much, you know, they cared about the people losing the jobs. It. What they gave a shit about was, again, it was like Fiverr was like the enemy.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

It changed our industry and for the worse.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And it made everybody's life, like, it exploited freelancers, obviously. Right. But then it. It really did reshape client expectations, and it divided clients prior to shit like this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, here's the funny thing, okay. Fiverr would mask what people hated about global economy. Okay. There. There would be this trepidation, like, companies, and we know this for a fact, that companies would be like, oh, you're getting people from China or from India to work on stuff. I don't want anybody like that working on my stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they. They hated the idea of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they would go onto a platform like Fiverr and kind of get around it and feel good. Well, fiber is an American company, you know, And. And I don't know who's doing it. It's Fiverr's doing it. That's what I'm paying Fiverr That's. That's the. You know, by doing that, it reshaped expectations of where clients would, you know, ultimately would be forced to use North American labor and such.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And that would probably. I'm. I'm assuming that would come up in. In. In some. You know. Well, I can do. I can do this. I can get this done at Fiverr. So what's your. What's your pitch? Why are you better than that?

[A]

Right? And how many times.

[B]

Hey, hey.

[A]

Your logo is worth a fucking latte.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so you see my latte? Okay, I'm gonna pay you. What? This is fucking work.

[B]

I'll give you this for a little bit.

[A]

I'll throw now. But I mean, it's true. And I think that's what. It sucks. Like. Like, people. Businesses were starting to be trained, you know, on the whole idea that, you know, you could expect, like, that whole cheaper, faster, you know, race to the bottom. Yeah, it all started with Fiverr. With Fiverr, so. And every designer knows that. Okay. Or at least every, you know, designer with more than 10 years experience knows that. You know, even if not even less than that. So, you know, the funny thing is, now it's like that stigma, even now, the business has changed, and of course, they started offering Fiverr Pro, and nothing on fiber is five bucks. It hasn't been. Fiber hasn't been five bucks for probably about 15 years. I swear, I don't think I've ever remembered seeing anything for five bucks. Because, again, we initially we were scared because as an agency, we're like, how can we do this?

[B]

But, yeah, this.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's the name.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So it's like. But the problem is the stigma still stuck.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

And devalued logos. It devalued the process. Right. It really made, you know, a lot of businesses who back then had no choice but to go to a graphic designer and, you know, pay 3, 400 bucks for something. But, you know, now it's like, 3, 400 bucks is out of the question. We're going down to 50 bucks. You want my business, it's 50 bucks. And that really sucked, Right? But it was that stigma about not caring about the process, just focusing on that end product, right? So that still sucks. It's like, it didn't just, you know, screw the freelancers on there, because God. God knows even those freelancers knew that they could be making more. And even those poor freelancers in. In China and India were probably like, well, I'm paying 5 or I'm getting $5. For logo. But in Canada, they. They charge 5,000. You know, that's a house for me.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna do that.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then all of a sudden, that was half a million dollars. They realize I'm going back. Going back to my country. But. Yeah, but again, it's like, it totally, you know, not just, you know, designers over the industry, over. Right, right. But even more so when we talk about now how it's getting worse and sneakier. I have this whole suspicion about what's really going on. Right. Because, well. And again, this is. This is.

[B]

We got to get our. Our tinfoil hats out here. Now the conspiracies start. Sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Conspiracies. No, but. Okay, you know, it's. Okay. So it's one thing that, you know. You know, Fiverr, you know, was. Was hiring cheap designers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But now they've gone public and said that they're going to an AI first company, right? Well, what the fuck does that mean? Obviously, they have been using AI to. To trim internal operations, okay? And now they just fucking got rid of a whole bunch of people. They created internal shit to replace those people. What I suspect that they're doing, and I know they're doing this. Okay. Is, you know, they. They don't even need designers anymore. Okay? This is the thing. They just need the work that designers created and the work that, you know, they. They showcased on their. Their client interactions because they really push the client interactions. And you're like, no, no, they wouldn't do that because, you know, Fiverr says the copyright clearly goes to the designer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And to the client.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that doesn't stop them from using it to train their data.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And this is why I dug deeper into their whole terms of service.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So I fucking went right in there, right? And their terms of service, okay, the terms. And I wrote this down here, right? So verbatim, okay? Gives FIBER broad rights over uploaded content. Okay? So the fine print that people ignore goes even deeper. And it's like by posting or uploading content to Fiverr, you grant Fiverr broad rights to use this material for promotions and internal purposes. There's another part that says the rights granted may include usage for AI model training, okay. And platform improvement purposes. So what the do you think that means? Like, the translation is that, you know, your portfolio, your gig samples, anything that you showcased on there is basically going to be the fuel that they're going to use to train their AI, right? So now, you know, they're five $5 packages and their Fiber Pro packages. It's all going to be the, the Fiverr AI logo generator, the Fiverr, you know, website generated. They're going to be, you know, creating body copy because everything that you post on there, they' to use because they've already claimed the rights.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So they've now their own people over that much more. So now they're, they're cost cutting because they don't even need their internal people.

[B]

They don't.

[A]

But even more so they don't even now need designers. And that's sad, dude. That's, that's just, I mean, this is just, this just, this is when it just gets rotten. This is business at its worst.

[B]

Yes, yes. This is basically the snake eating its tail, right? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like you're, you're yourself out of, out of this whole thing because you, no one will trust you anymore. Not if they even did before.

[A]

But, but now, like it was one thing when people would be upset, you know, with Fiverr, you know, undercutting the market and devaluing what we do. Now they're devaluing it even more and it's like five bucks for a logo. It. We'd rather keep that for ourselves and build an AI app, which is horrible. Yeah, it's horrible. The sad part is they've got so much, so much data that they probably could build a decent AI generator, probably could build decent copy. They have all this data that they could build it on top of. So now this is just pure ethics.

[B]

Out the window, gone.

[A]

There's no ethics at all in a company like Fiverr doing something like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is where it gets even worse. Okay, theory. And now a word from our sponsor. All right, designers, let's cut the bull. How many times have you had a killer website designed only to watch it fall apart because of code or developer telling you no, no, no. Or maybe you've held back from web design altogether, thinking it's just too complicated and too technical or totally out of your wheelhouse. Either way, it's time for a change. WIX Studio is designed for designers, removing the barriers that limits your designs. Whether you're tired of developers watering down your ideas or too intimidated by the technical side of web, WIX Studio puts the creative power back in your hands. No code required. With a drag and drop interface that feels designer intuitive. Plus no code animations and even AI powered tools you can create for fully custom websites that match your vision. Every pixel, every detail. And if you're worried about the learning curve. Don't be. Wix Studio is designed to feel as intuitive as your favorite design tools. Some designers here even say more. So that means you can jump right in and focus on what you do best. Designing badass brand aligned websites that'll take your business to the next level. So whether you've had enough of developers holding you back or you're ready to finally step into web design, check out wix studio.com and take control. That's wix studio.com go and take back web design for graphic designers. So going deeper. Fiverr isn't the only one that's doing this, okay. Other platforms that I snuck into, okay. And started digging deeper into it, they're doing the same shit, okay? Upwork retains usage rights, okay? Over the profiles, the portfolios that are in it. Okay? Upwork, this is supposed to be the company, a higher level version of Fiverr.

[B]

A Fiverr, Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Canva. They're using all of the stuff, right? They're using anything uploaded into their system to train features unless you explicitly opt out of that. Okay, can you. Yeah, you can you, can they give you an option that's cool. It doesn't matter.

[B]

Oh yeah, I guess not.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Because how many people would it.

[B]

Yeah, right?

[A]

And, and I think, I think that's only content uploaded, not content created in. Okay, difference. Adobe stock, okay? And not just Adobe stock. Half of Adobe stock photo library is all frickin AI generated images now anyway. It's horrible. It's horrible. Adobe is one thing, right? And everybody kind of, everybody kind of expects Adobe to be pulling this shit. Oh yeah, but WordPress. Oh, okay, so this is something that shocked me, okay, how many people have a WordPress site they hosted on WordPress.org well, digging in their, their, their service agreement, okay? It's like content published on WordPress.com can and has been scraped for AI training. So plain and simple, okay, that's WordPress. Okay? We're using it as just a hosting platform and yet they're digging through our websites. Well, not ours.

[B]

We've never. Yeah, exactly, you guys.

[A]

But I mean again, there's still Everybody who's trusted WordPress. Yeah, they're now scraping that and it's only a matter of time that they're probably gonna have the leading AI web design platform that'll create websites because they've got so much data that they're, that they're based on. And again, it's all in the terms of service, but again, nobody probably goes that deep into reading this. So it's not like. It's not like, you know, Fiverr's the only one. Okay. It's just. It's like infecting everybody right now.

[B]

So fiber is probably the first domino, right. That's gonna knock everybody else down, and then this will all be going down.

[A]

This going down. This AI generator.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so here's the question.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So here's something that make you think, should you be pissed off at AI about this? Should you be like, fuck AI? It's. It's hurting the whole industry. No.

[B]

Me? No, I don't think so. Do you?

[A]

I don't know. That's what I'm asking.

[B]

No, I don't. No, I don't. I don't think so. I think this is. This is. This is people doing this kind of stuff. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like we could. We could have AI as a great tool.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And still do the human route go the human way.

[A]

Well, and here's the thing. Everybody is pissed off at AI, right? You hear artists, you hear musicians, everybody's eating musicians. Especially I doing. Yes, but you're right. I mean, AI in theory. Theory isn't the villain here.

[B]

No.

[A]

It's just a tool.

[B]

It is. Yes.

[A]

Right. Like, it is. It's. It's like in theory. And I. And I know it's kind of morbid, but it's like guns.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, guns don't automatically go and kill people around them. Right, Right. But it's people using them in nefarious ways that are actually hurting people. But the. The tool itself is just. It's nothing. Yeah, right. It's just. It just.

[B]

There it is just what it is.

[A]

And it does what it's told.

[B]

It's the Iron Giant.

[A]

It is the Iron Giant.

[B]

It's not a gun in this.

[A]

In this situation, you know, AI isn't the villain. It's these platforms like Fiverr, Adobe, you know, Canva. They're the ones who are exploiting, exploiting it. Every. They're exploiting and they're like, hey, now we have a way to collect all this data and do something with it. Right. And that's. They're the ones that are the villains here. People should be more pissed off at these organizations, not necessarily at the mid journeys and the open AIs because let's face it, AI has done incredible things. Just as much as bad. It's helped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like science and research, medical research, it gained. There's been so much traction all of a Sudden in these fields that it's now saving lives, let alone what it's doing for research and how, like, it's just, it's just, man, I swear, I think the next thousand years are going to happen in the next 10 years. Okay. Based on like all the scientific research and development that's going to happen because of this platform.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it's like.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You know, again, it's not. I think people need to switch their anger from the AI tool itself. Right, okay. And put it towards the companies that are weaponizing a little bit more.

[B]

Weaponizing.

[A]

You know, interestingly enough, though, it's like the mindset that designers have going into these platforms. Okay. So it's not just fibers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And it's not just services like that, but also stock photos. Okay. In all fairness, this is why Adobe is now creating their own stuff. So all the photographers who used to rely on, you know, putting stuff into sites like Adobe and deposit and iStock, right. They're, they're at risk right now. Vector sites that are out there, people who create stuff that. And they put it on these vector sites. Oh, right, right, yeah, that's gone. You know, and any sort of platform or service, even the music sites, the stock photo music sites, well, soon they're not going to have to pay artists because again, they're going to remove that and you know, and just have AI build these platforms and they don't have to pay royalties to this stuff. Right. Any sort of website that has some sort of. That can be replaced by a formulaic type of approach is at risk in this situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I mean, for the companies themselves, they'll do great.

[B]

Oh, they'll do great.

[A]

Because now they don't have to pay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, the ones who suffer, unfortunately, the people who actually put it in there. Right. And again, the people who use these, these sites to actually make a living are going to be the first ones that are going to be. And we've always said that, we've said. And the designers who do what we do and what we recommend people to do, they have nothing to worry about.

[B]

No.

[A]

It's the ones who have no process or thin process.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they're just delivering that end product. They're the ones that are going to suffer. And they are.

[B]

Yep. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But there's a trickle effect. Okay. And what I mean by that is, so now you're going to have all these 50,000, you know, fiverr designers, 100,000, I don't even know. Right. Well, now they're going to have to hit the market.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They're going to hit the market and they only know one thing.

[B]

Yeah, cheap. Yes, exactly.

[A]

Right. That's undercut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're going to now flood the market. They're going to undercut everybody else out there. And not that they'll take away a ton of work.

[B]

No.

[A]

But you know, it's a lot of fucking noise.

[B]

It is. Yeah.

[A]

And it's going to create a lot of chaos because now you're going to hear more of this. Hey, I'm not using services. AI services. But you know Raul or you know Jade or you know Sue's, I don't know, trying to be open here with names. I don't, I'm trying to protect myself here. But you know, they're gonna, they're gonna be pointing these real people that they met that they talk to on the Internet and hey, it's a real person, it's another freelancer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're giving it to me for a third the price that you are. So can you match that price?

[B]

Right?

[A]

So now, you know, we're not going to be competing against these platforms, we're going to be competing against these short term designers that left these platforms exaggerated the market, right. So it's like going back to frickin 2005 with this whole global economy that we had to deal with all over again in situations like this. Okay. When you're looking at these apps, okay, whether it's apps like Fiverr, whether it's apps, when, when you're. And this is where it gets scary and this is kind of like the lesson that we need to remember as we move, move forward with this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, we sign up for apps all the time Wave, you know, for us, for our, our bookkeeping, okay. You, we sign up for Envato or Vect or you know, we're all these photo sites and like that, right? We sign up for these apps that give us all this convenience and, and, and you know, they, they help us grow our business. You've got funnel apps, okay. We've got e newsletter apps. Everything that we live and breathe right now, our whole business is all on these online apps and they are to help make our lives easier. So it's convenience.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

Nobody ever thinks of the other side, okay. Who has control of all this convenience, okay? Nobody ever thinks about that. And that is what happened with fiber and all those people, okay. And this is something that we can't lose sight of is not necessarily the convenience, but we need to, you know, what's the trade off convenience with control. Because a lot of these apps that we sign up for to help our businesses, help run our businesses, okay. They want control of those apps. They have control. Like, I mean, we go, we sign up, you know, we sign up for these services. Nobody ever reads this shit. Okay. But you know, you build businesses blindly behind these apps, YouTube for even YouTube, I hate to say it, right? Like, there is potential for YouTube to start. Go and create AI generated content based on everything else that's online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Heaven. For the benefit to you, the reason why YouTube probably won't is because everything that's uploaded on there is like, you know, you know, they're not paying for the content that's uploaded.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But they do have to split the ad revenue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Imagine if they can keep all that shit on their own. Right?

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's a whole other world altogether. But, you know, the reality is we are trading convenience for control and nobody's really thinking about what we're handing over in that control. They're up there has been. Okay, so when we started this podcast, like four years ago, there were podcast apps out there that were, you know, better than the one podcast hosting app that we use. Okay. And it looked like it was going to help promote you and this and that, but in the fine print, they basically owned you. They owned your content, they were going to give you everything. It'd be great when you start off, right, great to save you money. But they owned the intellectual rights, they owned your, your brand, they were going to share everything with you. But ultimately, if you ever wanted to leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to fucking start over.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what a lot of these apps do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. They don't let you leave. They're easy to bring you in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They give you an attractive price, but they don't make it easy for you to leave and to take what.

[B]

What is yours.

[A]

What is yours. What you built.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Using their app. And this is where designers need to be very careful when they're trading off stuff like this. So again, because nobody ever reads the terms of service. Nobody ever does. And the reality, it's not even in a language that we understand.

[B]

Yeah. This is true. It's legalese. Exactly.

[A]

It is legalese.

[B]

It is. Okay.

[A]

But here's the beautiful thing. You know what is an expert on legalese? Chat, man, Chat. GPT is an expert at this. You.

[B]

You fed the, you fed this into chat.

[A]

Well, and that's what you do. Right. And that's, that's what I did. I Went through what I. You think I read Fiverrs, you know, Terms of Service and adobes and WordPress. No, I was just like, fuck it, I'm using chat. I'm going through it. And the thing is we as designers have the ability to, to flip, you know, the script here and use Chat GPT for good. For good, for our advantage. So. And again, first thing you got to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Copy the terms of service. Copy the whole thing. Select it all. Copy it or select it in the, in the URL.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

Then go to chat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then when you're in chat, write a prompt, something like highlight anything in these Terms of services that allows the platform to use my creative work portfolio, uploads or user information for AI training, marketing or internal purposes. Also identify who owns the rights to my work data and personal information if I choose to leave or delete my account. Summarize. And here's the key word. Okay. Ready? Here's the key, the key phrase.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Summarize the risks in plain English. So not even legal.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Don't just pick out the stuff. Yeah.

[A]

Once you do this. Okay. The reason why this works. Something like this works both ways, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Because it's active. So any, any active exploitation that's going on, like where they're using your. Right off the bat. Okay. You'll know of. Because they're gonna say it in some sort of fancy legalese way. But also the residual effects if you leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You want to make sure that you can take, grab your stuff, anything you want.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Invoices, your client list. Some people are building, you know, like funnels with emails and password, like so or not passwords, but like email addresses, contacts. They're building their, you know, their sales funnels. And they can't take shit with them if they find a better platform. So this takes care of what's active and then what's residual if you leave thereafter. So again, AI can help us. Okay. It's not just the end because again, it's just a tool.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

It's a great tool. Use it either makes it friend or foe.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

So again, this is, this is where you will find out quickly that if you're signing up for something. Okay. If they're genuinely, you know, genuinely trying to provide you a service.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And have your best interests in mind. Or if they are trying to screw you, screw you long term and use you as the data.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And that's the thing. And use you to build their future. And they're that that's what we don't want to do.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So. And keep in mind, this isn't just like, you know, your work, your, your, your portfolio, but it's anything. Your user data, your name, your, your age, your demographics, your clients, the type of clients you know, even. You know, a lot of these sites even track like, you know, ux, you, you know how, how you're traveling through the site. Right. I don't really care so much about stuff like that, but some people, I know people that don't want anything tracked. So by using chat in this way, okay. It gives you at least more control going into this. So if you decide to change your.

[B]

Mind, you can and still have your stuff to.

[A]

And again, I get it. You know, one person might not make a difference, but I think if enough people are made more aware that these platforms are using our. To train their own shit and literally put us out of business, I think then at least it'll give more power to other platforms.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That are actually out to build for the good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For legit. Right. That's the big, big thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. So three things. Three things people designers need to take away. Okay. So we need to understand the risks that are associated with any platform online that we sign up for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Plain and simple. If it's holding data in any way of yours.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Know what you're in for first and foremost, especially, you know, based on what it is that you're using. You know, what you're using it for. Number two, build control measures. Okay. So, you know, own the work that you're doing, own the data, own your pipeline. Make sure you have those controls in place. You know, either you're downloading them onto a spreadsheet, you're downloading them into your notes, you're keeping them locally or copy, you know, if it is in the cloud, that's fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, just off the app.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. In that case. Okay. And you know, lastly, use AI as a shield. Use it as your weapon in this case. Okay. Not just, you know, these platforms weapons against you, but use it back.

[B]

Back. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I have seen so many incredible stories of, you know, people using these platforms to go against claims where it's like, you know, Adobe wouldn't release you from their contract and wanted you to pay 700 for. Well, guess what? They would get AI to scrub the users terms of agreement, everything and be like, no, no, here you go, I'm released free. And again, suddenly you're driving. All of a sudden their terms of service had Screwed them over. So, again, this is such a powerful tool if you use it. Right.

[B]

I never thought of that.

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

That's awesome. Yes.

[A]

Like the Green Lantern ring. I'm such a. I'm sorry. Just came back from Comic Con weekend. Couldn't help it. My mind is still there.

[B]

You're forgiven.

[A]

I'm still thinking, you know, Marvel and anime. So, you know, I think. I think we need to be a little bit more cognizant, you know, we don't need to cry over the whole fucking fiber thing, I guess.

[B]

No. And it sounds like nobody really cares.

[A]

On our side of it. Nobody cares. It was never built for us.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, it was never for designers, you know, and now it's even clearly is definitely not now against.

[B]

They have taken that far step to the left. Yeah, we.

[A]

And again, the big thing is a. We always said that AI was going to kill fiber designers. Yeah, no, no, Fiber kill. And I'm sorry for those designers, but we warned you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, there was so many signs, like, don't focus on the bottom price. You made a lot of people's lives miserable.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, now you're gonna have to rethink this while you're slinging freaking hot dogs at 7:11, for God's sake.

[B]

Okay. You just.

[A]

I think we just have to remember, ultimately, after all said and done.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

You know, designers just need to remember what they're trading for convenience. Okay. So it's okay to use these apps online? Absolutely. Our whole world is online. Everything we do is online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every wap. I don't even know any apps that are native anymore. Everything we do, we use is all online. But just for your own protection, understand what you're trading for that. Okay. I hope you guys got something cool out of this. I hope you just didn't. We didn't sound like two guys ranting the whole time, but literally, you know, make sure you know who owns and controls you know, what you do online. And again, use AI and use it to. To. To help you take control back for yourself. All right, don't forget about our newsletter. Anger management for designers. I didn't even, you know, shout it out at the beginning of this episode. Nope. So kind of lost out on that opportunity. So I'm not even gonna bother finishing it all because I'm sure everybody has already. So. Yeah, you know where to find us. You know who to forward us to, and we love you lots.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry.

[B]

Peace.