Graphic Design Careers Are Under Attack. Here’s How to Survive

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Graphic Design Careers Are Under Attack. Here’s How to Survive"

Podcast: The Angry Designer
Date: September 30, 2025
Hosts: Massimo (A), Sean (B)
Episode Focus: The future of graphic design careers amidst AI advancements, industry oversupply, and shifting client expectations – with actionable advice for designers on how to thrive.

---

Overview

This episode addresses growing anxiety in the graphic design community about the viability of a design career in the age of AI, bootcamp “designers,” rising tuition, and stagnating industry growth. Hosts Massimo and Sean cut through industry fear-mongering and offer a no-bull, pragmatic roadmap for how designers can adapt, differentiate themselves, and find long-term value in the field.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Existential Crisis: Is Design Dead?

• Kickoff with Real-World Doubt:
  Massimo shares the dilemma his daughter faces when considering a graphic design degree, echoing worries young designers have about whether the field is already obsolete.

  “Is there even a future in graphic design?” – Massimo’s daughter (02:00)

• AI and Tech Disruption:
  • AI tools and platforms like Canva and Nano Banana (described as a potential "Photoshop killer") make design tasks more accessible, leading to fears about obsolescence.
  • The perception that “everyone is a designer now” due to templates and AI-generated work.

  “Why would anybody hire us?...if they can go online and create a logo for themselves in seconds?” – Massimo (08:13)

• Industry Growth Stagnation:
  Referencing government data, the field is forecasting just a 3% growth over the next decade, fueling more uncertainty and anxiety.

  “It feels like, you know, the odds are stacked against designers…” – Massimo (13:23)

2. The Oversupply & Devaluation of Design

• Bootcamps and YouTube tutorials create a glut of “Canva warriors" who know decoration, but not true design thinking.
• The market is flooded with self-identified designers, causing undercutting and making it harder for genuine professionals to stand out.

  “With these AI tools, they're all calling themselves designers… Canva now makes yourself a designer.” – Massimo (09:09)

3. What AI Can and Can’t Do

• Limitations of AI-Created Work:
  • Current AI designs often lack practical usability for print and advanced conceptual work.
  • AI boosts productivity, but can’t replace design intuition, client collaboration, or strategic problem-solving.

  “AI gives you this false sense of ability, makes you think you’re better than you actually are.” – Massimo (15:36)

  • Most AI tools are user-friendly at first glance but hard to master and integrate at a professional level.
• Clients Want More Than Just 'Pretty':
  • Clients who want cheap, quick solutions will flock to template-based services, but those seeking real value and strategy will still require expert designers.

  “Let those low-end people get taken over by AI. We're ready to step up for the bigger stuff.” – Massimo (21:46)

4. Redefining the Designer: From Decorators to Problem Solvers

• The Death of the “Old” Designer:
  • It's not design that's dying, “it’s the old designer” – i.e., those unwilling to evolve and move beyond execution-only roles.

  “What is dying is the old designer…what a designer used to be.” – Massimo (13:33)

• Strategy as the Differentiator:
  • Modern designers must focus on process, customer and audience insights, and strategy – not just deliverables.

  “The value isn’t in your final product. The value is in the process.” – Massimo (30:57)

• Stacking & Specialization:
  • Generalists compete on price and drown in crowded markets.
  • Specializing (by industry or skill) or “stacking” complementary skills (branding, animation, campaign strategy) helps designers become irreplaceable.

5. Education: Degree vs. DIY

• Graphic design education is increasingly expensive and often lags behind technology and market shifts.
• Massimo and Sean advocate for pursuing skills—especially strategic and critical thinking—over mere technical proficiency.

  “Honestly, you can build a career in design without debt…design is more than just the tools.” – Massimo (29:27)

• School can be valuable if it teaches how to think, strategize, and tell compelling stories—not just use software.

6. Surviving & Thriving: Mindset Shifts

• Attitude and adaptability are key.
  • Embrace AI as a tool for “superpowering” your capabilities, not as a threat.
  • Stay focused on delivering strategic value and solving real problems for clients.

  “Design absolutely has a future if you’re willing to change with the pace of design…and remember that you are a problem solver, not a decorator.” – Massimo (31:45)

• The future belongs to those who are proactive, never stop learning, and can guide clients through the fast-paced, noisy marketplace.

  “The lazy designer who doesn’t want to evolve…they’re going to be done.” – Massimo (33:14)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Oversupply & Bootcamps:

  “Become a graphic designer in three lessons…give me money and I will…Yeah, I’ll tell you the secrets of life.” – Massimo & Sean (09:54–10:12)

• On Real-World AI Failures:

  “The fonts are stretched in five different directions…the size is on, it’s not made for print…finally somebody was smart enough and been like you better throw it to the agency and have them do this.” – Massimo (16:03–16:38)

• On Design Career Security:

  “If it were made irrelevant in 2005, it wouldn’t still be here…We have decades—you and I have been irrelevant for 40 years!” – Sean (24:15–24:41)

• On Specialization:

  “Become a specialist…niche in that industry. I’m a huge proponent…if you want to secure a future as a designer: consider specializing.” – Massimo (25:10–25:42)

• On Education’s Limits:

  “School can’t keep up with the pace of how everything is going…nowadays you don’t even have to use the tools, there’s so much more.” – Massimo (30:20)

• On The Future of Designers:

  “Design absolutely has a future. But you have to be willing to evolve…design isn’t dead. The version we know, okay, might be dying.” – Massimo (32:36–32:50)

• Parting Advice:

  “Design really in the future is more about your mindset, not necessarily the software that you’re trying to…” – Massimo (33:42)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–02:17: Setting the stage – should anyone get into design now?
• 06:05–08:48: AI’s impact on design & industry oversupply
• 09:54–11:45: The proliferation of bootcamps & design education’s problems
• 13:23–14:00: Is the design field doomed by slow growth?
• 16:03–17:14: AI’s practical limitations and client misconceptions
• 21:01–22:04: Why clients still need real designers for big problems
• 25:10–26:27: Specialization and skill stacking as survival tactics
• 30:57–31:45: “Strategy is what separates decorators from designers"
• 32:36–33:14: Laziness, resistance to change as dead ends in evolving design field

---

Takeaways & Recommendations

• Don’t panic about AI or industry changes; real design is evolving, not dying.
• Focus on developing strategy, critical thinking, and problem-solving—these are future-proof.
• Specialize or stack skills to fill niches and add unique value.
• Use AI as a tool to enhance workflow and creativity, not as competition.
• Education matters, but only if it teaches process and mindset—not just software.
• Lazy or rigid designers will struggle; those hungry and adaptable will thrive.

---

Final Words

The episode is an unapologetic, encouraging boost for those feeling disenchanted by bleak industry news or who fear being replaced by algorithms. It’s a reminder to evolve, value strategic thinking, and keep perspective:

“Design absolutely has a future. But you have to be willing to evolve.” – Massimo (32:36)

Stay creative. Stay angry. Adapt—and you’ll not just survive, but thrive.

Transcript

[A]

Choosing a graphic Design career in 2026 might be the dumbest decision that you'll ever make. Or it might be the smartest one. Right now, AI can design a logo in literally seconds. Canva makes anybody with a laptop a designer, and schools are charging $60,000 for a degree that might be obsolete by the time you even graduate, let alone labor. Data says that the industry is barely growing. So why would anybody in their right mind choose a career in graphic design? Because behind all the doom and gloom, there's another story that nobody's actually talking about. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by Wick Studio, we're asking the question that every student, every career switcher and every designer secretly wants to know. Is graphic design a dead end career or is it the most rewarding decision that you'll ever make? Let's go. Cheers.

[B]

Salad.

[A]

Oh, God. This is turpentine. That's such some scotch. Wow.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

I let Sean choose the drink tonight and. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm in pain.

[B]

Holy. That's sweet though.

[A]

It is sweet. It actually is quite good. What the hell? It's quite a big flavor profile that I'm not used to. It's because a sherry cask.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

Sherry is. It seems to make them all sweeter. It's nice though. It's not bad. It's. No, it's very nice. Very scotchy. This is. Yeah. To me, like that other. That I keep buying. That's not scotch. That's like baby Scotch. This is scotch. So. All right.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It is that time of life where my oldest daughter is now looking at colleges and universities. Wow. I know.

[B]

Just art colleges in universities.

[A]

Art colleges and universities. And of course, me being the. The guy I am, I'm like, so, you know, since you're a Nazi kid, is graphic design in your future? And she's like, is there even a future in graphic design? Dropped. Holy shit.

[B]

She didn't say that. Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. She's. She's a smart kid and I think she, she meant more monetarily. Oh. However, at the same time, she's also looking at fine art as a future. And there's no luck with that. Right. But it's true. The real question, right, that, that I think is legit. Like, is there a future in graphic design? But even, like not long term. Like even next year is really just. Let's even think like one year. Like, is there. It just seems like there's so much angst right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and things are changing so quick, like just, you know, and even from her perspective, right, Obviously, you know, she. She's not as deep into it as we are.

[B]

Well, yeah, in all fairness to her, she's young and we're old.

[A]

We're.

[B]

We at the back end of it.

[A]

We've seen.

[B]

We've seen a lot of stuff over the course of years. So God only knows what. What kids are going to see, right, in the next five years.

[A]

And that's not even that, but a year, like you said, even depth. Depth of what they see. So. So our experience, you know, gives us a much broader view of what graphic design is, of what design is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She sees a very thin, shallow view, right. She's just new. She's just looking at it from the onset, right? She's seeing AI Y. And she's like, well, you know, if, you know, do I even. Are you. Do you even design logos anymore? Like, you know, like, isn't AI And. And again, this is the perception that she's getting, right? And. And then, of course, you know, she's like, who's. Who's going to pay me, you know, if they can just get AI to do. Because again, it's what she's seeing now. She's of that generation that everything is AI. Her phone apps are AI. They've got AI filters for this. She can, you know, whip up anything in a snap. Right? So it's like her. Her idea of what you. Graphic design is very different than what.

[B]

From what we are. Yeah, yeah. Because we, I think, are based in the traditional sense, kind of, and we have seen a lot of change. But as you age, you get better, you adapt a lot better to newer things that come along.

[A]

I think AI feels really fast right now because of what we've seen it do, you know, and rightfully so, enough to make people be like, well, it's going to take us over. But, you know, at the same time, I bet you those guys thought that. Yeah, I mean, again, guys probably thought that photographers wouldn't be around, you know, when photo discs started coming on, discs and photographers seem like there's. I mean, Peter McKinnon out of Toronto. Okay. You know, the. The crazy YouTuber. He's got like, millions and millions of followers. He's all photography. Oh, really? That's all he is. It's just YouTube photography.

[B]

But I think that's the. That was the difference. Like, when web came along, that was a huge. That was a huge opening for us. All of a sudden these coders are designing websites and they're like, Stinky stuff. So then was born UX was kind of came out of this stuff.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there were industries that were growing because of the, the Internet. I think AI is turning inward. It's shrinking that.

[A]

Because there's no.

[B]

Yeah. There is no other. Other kind of fields that it's going to open up. It's. It's taking stuff away. So I can see why kids would.

[A]

Be completely afraid of thinking that it's just, it's going to be a temporary thing. It's no help when the government's saying that the growth rate of our industry is, is not that great. And when you of tuition is going.

[B]

Up, yes, it's expensive.

[A]

It's making people really second guess. Is this a viable career? You know, it does beg the question when we're talking to her is, is. Is this something we want to invest in? Like school's a big investment and she, she wants to go to school her choice Y. So that's fine. She doesn't know yet. Again, design, art, this, that. I mean again, we're just starting that now, but we need to have these answers in a year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're. That really does beg the question, is graphic design a good career choice for 2026? So for example, we've already been, we already started talking about this but like AI is in fact showing up more and more regardless if it's, you know, increasing at the same pace we've already went through or more regardless to this generation of people, this is all they know. They don't know the history that we know about new technology and everything. So, you know, is AI taking over creativity? I. That's a legitimate question. That, that scares the hell out of everybody when it comes to design.

[B]

Yeah. I mean if, if your daughter says, do you even do logos anymore? That is the perception of a potential student, right?

[A]

It really is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And have you been playing with Nano Banana? Nano Banana.

[B]

Nano Banana.

[A]

That's just. See, this is what I'm saying.

[B]

What the fuck is this? Every fucking week there's something new.

[A]

And the crazy thing is Nano Banana is, is Nano Banana. It's. It is the scariest one out of them all, right? This could be the Photoshop killer for all intents and purposes, because what it's doing and how it's doing it, you know, you are able to put together two or three images. You can put together a picture of Sean, a plaid suit right beside it, and a surfboard and then just draw arrows between the three of them and it will think and put Sean in a Plaid suit, on a surfboard, on a wave, going crazy like, like a Pinterest board. Dude, it's, it's pretty crazy. It's just so smart. And that's, that's just the start of it. But again, right now, the big fear, the big, the big thing is is that gonna take a big chunk out of Photoshop because it, we had this skill, okay. This was something that we used to do, this incredible multi layer Photoshop skills. This was something that we used to be so proud of. I can't remember the last time I actually did something that in depth that made me feel like, oh yeah, I still got it. It's, it's been a little while since we've had all this. Right, exactly. Not to mention, you know, what Mid Journey is doing. I'm spending more time lately prompting for images than even doing photo searches. To be honest, I don't know how proud I am by this, but it's, it's true, right? And it's only a matter of time before these are going to be doing full ad campaigns, full ad rollouts. Right? There's some quirks and such to work out, but I mean it's. Why would anybody hire us? You know, and, and that's probably what she's thinking. Like if I want to make career, if I want to make money in this, why would anybody hire me if they can go online and create a logo for themselves in seconds?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Unless, unless, you know, you're the, the tip top student, you're the a, you know, but, but again, that's, that's depressing because there's 29 other people there that are just discarded. Right?

[A]

Well, well. And to that point, okay, so let's say AI is not even part of the issue, right? 29 other people there is freaking oversupply big time of people calling themselves designers, which drives me nuts, right? This, you know, you got thousands of grads, you know, up here, graduating in North America, you got millions overseas. Yeah, okay. Just graduating every year. And the problem there is with these AI tools, they're all calling themselves designers, you know, and that's the sad thing, right? You think that, you know, Canva now makes yourself a designer. I'm a graphic designer. I'm on Canva. I can take templates and I can create, you know, and it's just like.

[B]

Wow, insert the Batman slap here.

[A]

And I'm not saying you can't be a designer if you use Canva, because we've already covered this, we've done this as a tool. Yes, you, we, we can easily.

[B]

It's fine if you know what you're.

[A]

Doing, but that's not how people are.

[B]

But that's not what. That's not what's going to happen.

[A]

And that's the thing. And then you've got these boot camps everywhere. I'm so sick and tired of seeing. Become a graphic designer in three lessons. And, you know, and, you know, like, give me money and I will.

[B]

Yeah. I'll tell you the secrets of life.

[A]

Right. So it's like, you know, with all these stupid boot camps that are overselling what. What, you know, are underselling, you know, underselling designers. Right. But it's making people false of impression.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That they're designers. Right.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So again, you know, with that, with that being the case, it's like, how the hell do I stand out if every other person is calling themselves a designer?

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

And then, I mean, since we're talking about boot camps and YouTube design education on a whole, it's become a really scary thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, not to mention, like, you know, if you want to go down the, the school route, tuition is expensive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they're probably thinking, do I really want to, you know, have somebody teach me, you know, how to compete with AI, right. And then be $60,000 in debt if you're going to school for that, you know, but at the same time, and I hate this about schools, Right. Because again, they're saying the only way you'll get that job is if you go.

[B]

Yeah. You gotta have that diploma. Right. Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because that's what employers are looking for.

[A]

Right. And then, and then, you know, okay, so then if you decide not to go down the, the, like the actual traditional academic future, Right. And you're on YouTube. Well, you got boot camps promising this. You've got all these designer YouTubers promising you that. You've got so many, you know, so much content on YouTube that it really is overwhelming because you don't always know, like, just because somebody has a lot of followers, does that make them a legitimate, you know, teacher? Does that make them an authority in the space or not? Or are they just really good at putting on a show?

[B]

I don't know. I. Like I said, I would be scared shitless. Did you see that post with Alan when he was talking about branding, rebranding, talking and how frightening that is in.

[A]

This day and age? Social climate change. And in all fairness, you know, that government data, you know, doesn't help. Okay. With this choice. Okay. Because if you actually dig into it, the government data says that, you know, it's. Graphic design is expected to have a 3% growth rate over the next 10 years. Right. So that doesn't necessarily look like the. The greatest prospects. You know, it's because it kind of. It's slower than a lot of the fields that are out there that are progressing. Right. Especially when you got what's going on in the computer field, what you've got in AI. Of course. Right. I bet you even trades are kind of increasing a lot at a bigger pace than something like this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's what they're encouraging kids to do. There's commercials on there saying, yeah, hey, be a tradesman.

[A]

So, you know, you know, and that's. And that's the whole thing. Right. Take that 3% and then compare that with, okay, 3% growth rate. Yeah, but I've got globalization. I've got, you know, people from overseas competing, people virtually competing. We've got AI competing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, when she's. When she's thinking she's. Am. Am I literally going into a dying field? Right. Is in fact graphic design just, like, becoming stagnant?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And that's government data.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not very fun either.

[B]

No, it's. Is it legit? I mean, I guess, or even.

[A]

I'm curious on how they are. I guess they take. They take a look at everything, right?

[B]

Yeah, they probably would. I'm probably guessing it is.

[A]

It's just, it feels like, you know, the odds are stocked. Are stacked against.

[B]

Yes, designers, I would agree in this.

[A]

It isn't necessarily that, you know, design is dying or dead.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Okay. It's. I think what is dying is the old designer. Okay. Is what a designer used to be. Right. The model.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that's the real shift. And now a word from our sponsor. All right, designers, let's cut the bowl. How many times have you. You had a killer website design, only to watch it fall apart because of code or developer telling you no, no, no. Or maybe you've held back from web design altogether, thinking it's just too complicated and too technical or totally out of your wheelhouse. Either way, it's time for a change. WIX Studio is designed for designers removing the barriers that limits your designs. Whether you're tired of. Of developers watering down your ideas or too intimidated by the technical side of web, WIX Studio puts the creative power back in your hands. No code required. With a drag and drop interface that feels designer intuitive. Plus, no code Animations and even AI powered tools. You can create fully custom websites that match your vision. Every pixel, every detail. And if you're worried about the learning curve, don't be. Wix Studio is designed to feel as intuitive as your favorite design tools. Some designers here even say more. So that means you can jump right in and focus on what you do best. Designing badass brand aligned websites that'll take your business to the next level. So whether you've had enough of developers hold holding you back or you're ready to finally step into web design, check out wix studio.com and take control. That's wix studio.com go and take back web design for graphic designers. So let's go a little deeper in AI.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. We're getting AI shit from customers. Is it good?

[B]

No.

[A]

Right. And again. And right now, and probably for the next little while, everybody who enters, you know, the workspace, they don't know how to use AI. They, you know, AI gives you this false sense of ability, makes you think that you're better than you actually are. And when your standards are at 10% of what a graphic designer can do, well, now AI makes you feel like you're 20%, 30%.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Some of the shit that I'm getting and I'm reading the thread on how it got there and the girl's like, I think this is a great start. We should just give it to the print company to use. And I'm like, you, you can. Number one. Number one, the fonts are stretched in five different directions. The size is on. It's not made for print. Number two, it is all wrong. It's not, I'm not made for print output.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Finally somebody was smart enough and been like, you know what, you better throw it to the agency and have them do this. Well, of course the agency was able to save the day.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And without AI, might I add. Right. But you know, the reality is it's like, you know, I'm a big fan of AI and I jumped on it and I will push it and we're going to keep growing it and using it as much as possible, but it's not here to replace us. It can't replace us.

[B]

I don't want that.

[A]

Right. Like, I mean, again, it's, it's making us superpowered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's amping up our abilities. And as it gets better, we'll, we'll keep using it. Right, but we're going to be on the front lines using it at every step of the way. You Know most, most of the AI that we're seeing right now. Okay. When not even most of the AI. Let's, let's take a look at the client interaction experience that we have.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We' create something for a client. Okay. They'll get it. They're, they're never like, yep, perfect first time. Can you change the font? Can you change the image? Can you do this? Can you. A lot of little tweaks. Well, that would require you to reprompt over and over. And while there is some AI out there that allows you to select an area and modify it. Okay. It's not great. It's far from great. It's not a great editing tool. Okay. So once it gets to the point where it can now be a decent editing tool, that still doesn't mean it's going to replace designers because customers won't have the ability to jump in, upload and get to work like we can. Now it becomes a graphic design tool.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right off the bat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So once it gets to that point where it can edit on the fly and do this and do that, it's still not going to be easily accessible for clients. They're still good. Indeed. As clients don't want to use AI, they really don't. The fear is there, but we're giving them way too much credit and right now they're feeling way too much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Self ability.

[B]

Excited about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little overconfident.

[A]

Yeah, you better relax. You better relax. So the whole idea about these oversupply of designers. Okay, well, you know, now they're Canva and this and that, and there's designers everywhere. We got designers across the world, global economy. Right. The reality is these aren't, you know, building designers. Okay. And if they are building designers, they're building low quality designers. Okay. And that's a huge thing, right? These Canva warriors or these boot camp weekend designers, Right? Like, dude, it's, they're creating, you know, people who know how to decorate and that's not what pays the bill.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's high volume crap. We don't want that crap. Let them, an AI fight it out for a race to the bottom. Seriously. So again, while these people maybe can decorate stuff on the fly, they can't actually solve problems the way we can. Okay. When somebody brings them a real problem, a real branding problem, a real, you know, customer engagement problem, they're Canva's not helping them, is it?

[B]

It's certainly not. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely not. And I mean, chat can help you with that, too.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It can, but it can't get you across the goal line. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, and you're under a false pretense if you think you just type in.

[A]

A prompt, type it in and accept.

[B]

It off to the printer.

[A]

Exactly. And that we've had that.

[B]

You just had. We had that talk.

[A]

Like, absolutely doesn't work. Hey, I will gladly use chat. And I do use chat as a tool. It's a great brainstorming tool.

[B]

Best for that.

[A]

And it gets things done really fast.

[B]

But your mind is going and you're thinking, you're. It's like you're having a conversation with somebody.

[A]

100.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, oh, I see what you're doing here. But because of what I know and what I've experienced. Yep. I'm going to try with this.

[A]

And that's it.

[B]

And that's the beauty, because I'm not.

[A]

Looking at it strictly through the lens of making it look pretty. I'm trying to solve the customer. Okay, that looks good. Sure. But the customer clearly said that their customers are like this. And this logo that you're presenting, it's.

[B]

Not really that exactly contradicts it.

[A]

They're not going to like it. It doesn't resonate with them properly. And so, you know, and. But I know that. And working with apps like chat, you know, do help me bring that out just at a faster pace, though.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, CL expectations, you know, of our space, you know, from us, of course, you know, are becoming more. They're actually not shrinking. Right. Because she was, you know, going on about how AI is taking away and customers are doing things on their own. But the reality is, you know, the customers aren't looking for basic cheap graphics. And if they are, fine, then go get them online. Yeah.

[B]

You could do it yourself.

[A]

Save me the bigger stuff that I want.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And this is legit, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They want stuff that, if they want cheap solutions, they'll go to a cheap canva design. Okay. And I don't want those customers. And that's what I told her. You don't want those types of customers. Right. We still have customers coming to us for bigger solutions. And even though a lot of the smaller stuff lately has seemed to kind of, you know, taper off a little bit, the projects we're getting now are bigger and beautifier.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. I'm digging this shit. Like, some of the strategy stuff that I've been asked to help with lately has been so, so thick and girthy. I love it. I'm like, finally something that I can sink my teeth into.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, you know, those cheap solutions, they don't understand or, or, you know, they don't understand strategy. They don't value it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's totally fine with me. So again, let those low end people get taken over by AI. We're ready to step up for the bigger stuff and clients are now expecting that from us.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And then when it comes to that data. Okay. The, you know, I think the data was extremely misleading.

[B]

The 3%.

[A]

It was. I really, I dug into and it was legit. 3% it is.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

100%. Okay. What it didn't say though. Okay. And this is what I dug deeper with. Okay. It says that, you know, graphic design has only got a 3% growth rate over the next decade. Okay. From 25 to 35. Okay. 3%. You're like, ooh, that's pretty bad, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The past two decades. So from 2005 to 2025, the expected growth rate was less than 2%.

[B]

Oh, geez. Really?

[A]

Huh. Right. They don't tell you that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do they?

[B]

There we go.

[A]

So while they do tout, you know that other, other industries are growing faster and this and that. Of course. AI is growing faster. It's hot right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, programming. Okay. It's tapering off. Surprisingly enough, not really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. But again, it's like we're actually, it's actually higher than it has been for the past 20 years. Okay. I think maybe, you know, if you dig deeper, I think the term graphic designer or graphic design might actually be changing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, I think that might be the misleading part. Right. Because again, before all this, you know, a designer was a. Massimo Vignelli was a designer.

[B]

He was a designer. Yeah. Chairs.

[A]

Right. And. Exactly. And you look at his shit, it's beautiful.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Again, but he was a designer. Roll over in his grave. All of a sudden if somebody was like, well, wait, are you a graphic? Are you a brand? Are you again, Batman slapped? I'm a designer. I love that. And it's true. Right. His whole mantra was, if you can design one thing, you can design anything. Exactly. So I think that needs to change a little bit. Okay. And I do think that people need to bring back the idea that, you know, design on a hold is does embrace the customer experience. It does embrace, you know, the graphic experience. It all embraces solving problems y one way or nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just in what direction? Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, it does drive me nuts that it kind of diluted itself for a little while.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe for the time being it needed that. But I can see it slowly coming back under one big umbrella term. And I think that would only be better for the whole industry.

[B]

Totally. You know, if it were, if it were made irrelevant in 2005, it wouldn't still be here. Do you know what I'm saying? Like all the shit that we've seen from Ruby Lift, the computers, all that stuff. Yeah. It was all irrelevant. Oh, this is, It's. If Photoshops come in, it's going to take all our jobs. We're irrelevant again. We just keep becoming. We're just. We have decades. You and I have been irrelevant for 40 years.

[A]

It's so true. Right, but it's true.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, we just, we, we, we hit these hurdles, we get over them and onto the next and it becomes stronger and better.

[A]

Better. Exactly. Exactly. Listen, if somebody wants to specialize, I'm a big proponent. Okay, Listen, you, you, you want, you know, to figure out what's going to take you to the future, fine. You know what? Become a specialist. I was just gonna say specialize in user experience. Right. Okay. You're still a designer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

None of you, you know, however you want to go, you're still a designer. You want to specialize in a specific industry. Good. Niche in that industry. I'm a huge proponent. If you want to secure a future as a designer. Okay. Consider specializing. Because unfor. Unfortunately, if, if design becomes, you know, very commoditized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or, or, sorry, if graphic design becomes commoditized. Right. And, you know, now almost an AI can create logos and a. Fine. Elevate yourself, specialize in something. Niche in a space. Okay. You know, you get more money.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

If you want a niche, okay. You're, you become a specialist. You get authority in that sense. Right. You know, whether it's packaging, whether it's data, whether it's experience, whether it's experiential.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Design. Right. It's still, you know, if you want a niche in that sen niching scares you. We talked about recently stacking, okay. Skill stacking, where it's like you pick your core deliverable, whether it's, you know, a logo design or being a copywriter. Well, copywriter's not really a designer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not a good example. But. And then you, you layer on skills to that to bring more value to the customer. So instead of just delivering a logo, well, you're now doing a Corporate id. You're also doing some of their branding. You're also doing their headers, their social headers.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You're animating their logo. You're actually layering. So you're still niche.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now you've. You're a much broader, much more valuable niche that keeps. Can offer. And so it's still specializing. Yeah, but it's not quite as specializing as being just a single logo designer. Right.

[B]

Yeah. And you're the expert in that.

[A]

And you are the expert in that field. Right. So. And then again, huge opportunity. Right. Because unfortunately, generalists, okay. They. They often compete on price.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because. Yes, it's hard.

[B]

Yes. And that's a race.

[A]

Stand out too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Right. So it's hard. So if I'm a generalist agency and, you know, three doors down, four doors.

[B]

Down, we have another agency, you're all of a sudden. Exactly.

[A]

Right. They're like, well, who do I like better? Right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It. It becomes a lot harder to stand out. So. So, I mean, again, specializing becomes a way beautiful, you know, opportunities, you know, in the future for designers also, you know, using AI to your benefit. Right. Like you. To jump on that AI trend. It's amplified.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You have to.

[B]

You have to.

[A]

Right. And. And this is what I told her. Like, you know what? It. It helps you iterate faster. It helps you brainstorm faster. Right. And I keep telling her, like, do yourself a favor and learn everything there is to know about AI right now. Keep up with it. Yeah, okay. If you want to be. Even if she decides to go into fine arts, okay. AI is still a huge.

[B]

Still gonna help. Yes, exactly.

[A]

Absolutely. Because it still will help her ideate. It'll still help her brainstorm. There's so many benefits to this. It's going to be part of. Of, you know, the designers who embrace AI are going to be the most powerful designers in the future. And the reality is, customers are going to want designers who can wrangle AI. Okay. Because God knows what AI as it is right now, it feels like the Wild West.

[B]

It is totally the wild West.

[A]

Holy cow.

[B]

Exactly. And you could see lawless motherfuckers out there who don't know what they're doing, and they think, well, I created it, so it's awesome.

[A]

I. Absolutely.

[B]

No, no, it's not.

[A]

And you're seeing layer upon layer upon, like, it's the hot thing right now. And it sucks.

[B]

It is.

[A]

But, you know, having a higher understanding of how it all works and sticking to the basic ones, it's. To your Advantage as a designer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Especially, especially next year and beyond. Okay. Yes. Design education on a whole is still optional. Okay. Not mandatory.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. And I think the opportunity there for designers isn't so much like school can provide value.

[B]

It's good. Yes.

[A]

If, if it provides you more than just how to use the tools. Right, right. And that's the issue I've had with school in the past.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

They focus on tools, they focus on some high level principles. They never focus on thinking. We, we.

[B]

When again, back to that story of when we went to Austin and doing the portfolio reviews. Yep. They did not have storytelling ability. Do you know what I'm saying? And it's like there was so many interesting things, but we had to pull it out.

[A]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

And no, that should be your. That's, that's the kind of stuff that's, you know, that school's not teaching and it should, it's.

[A]

Honestly, you can build a career in design without debt. And there is more than enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Information on YouTube and third party courses and classes that people can take to bring themselves, elevate themselves. Because again, design is more than just the tools. And if school just teaches you the tools.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of a waste of money in a sense. Right.

[B]

And this way you've got a three year head start and this way you got a three.

[A]

Exactly. Right. And there's value in that. Right. Because.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Effective. What you're going to learn in those three years.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the funny thing is when you look at people like Paul Rand, even though he did go to school, he considered himself a self taught designer because he said design continues after school.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When school's done, that's nothing. It just teaches you how to use the tools. Well, nowadays you don't even have to use the tools. There's so much more. And, and honestly, school can't keep up with the pace of how everything is going right now, tools wise.

[B]

Exactly. Like you said, we started with Ruby lift.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And by the third year in school, I was on a computer.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. How ridiculous is that?

[B]

Ruby Lift, Really? I wasted a whole semester on that.

[A]

Right. How pathetic was that?

[B]

Dumb.

[A]

And so that's it. You know, if in fact, do you want to go down the school route? You know, you know, I think you have to, you know, really look at the curriculum and how much of it is strategy is thinking, is critical thinking and how little tools are just the basics and you can learn that on your own. You don't need school to teach you on the tools.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Absolutely. But Ultimately, the biggest opportunity in the future for designers is strategy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And they have to embrace, because strategy is what separates decorators from designers. And we keep talking about this. The value isn't in your final product. The value is in the process.

[B]

You have to get all the products you've gone.

[A]

Right, exactly. Because it's that process that helps you define the problem that the customer has. Okay. Which has more value than the end solution. Okay. Then once you've discovered the problem, then you know, the next. You find out about the user, the audience, okay. Who their target market is, and then you figure out. Figure out what it is that they want. But honestly, you know, the biggest opportunity for designers and, and this is what I, you know, this is what I told her. I'm like, you know what? Design absolutely has a future if you're willing to change with the pace of design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And you're willing to. To strategize and think and remember that you are a problem solver.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Not a decorator. And you have to think that way when it comes to design. Yeah. You think that way. You've got a long future in design, way past 2026, big time. It's not about tools. It's not about. Okay. It is so much more. It's about the process that we go to. To find their problems, to think it through. Right. Everything else is just noise. Schooling AI clients, you know, fiber. This is just noise. And it really. It's hard to see through it sometimes.

[B]

It is. Yes, exactly. And you can kind of get bogged down in. In worrying about that shit. I could totally understand as a, As a person or you who's coming into this, why, that would be quite frightening.

[A]

But absolutely.

[B]

But you're right, it's fucking noise.

[A]

It is. It is.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Design absolutely has a future. Okay. But you have to be willing to evolve.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely is.

[A]

If somebody got into design at, you know, 1999, 2000 at the Cusp of web, what would you tell them? Oh, don't worry about that.

[B]

I'm not getting the web. It's a fad.

[A]

Yeah, it's a fad. It'll be gone. Right? No. Designers had to evolve. Okay. Same with when the. When social kicked in. You made, loved it or hated. You had to be willing to evolve. Okay? Because honestly. Honestly, I. Design isn't dead. The version we know, okay, might be dying. Okay? But who is going to be dead is going to be the lazy designer in the future. Because the lazy designer who doesn't want to evolve, doesn't want to learn. Okay. Doesn't want to use AI. He's like, no, I'm going to stick to my ways and that's it. Yeah, they're going to be done. Because that's part of a dying, that's part of a whole dying generation of designers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whether they're the cheap bottom based ones, you know, bottom feeders, you know, or the ones who are just set in their ways and don't want to move. But you know, the next 10 years, design, the designer role is going to change and I'm excited for it. Yeah, I'm genuinely excited for it.

[B]

I can't wait to see your, your daughter graduate.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And get into this field.

[A]

Well, fingers crossed. And that's it. Right. Because I told her, you know, design really in the future is more about your mindset.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not necessarily the software that you're trying to.

[B]

Because it's going to change.

[A]

It is. It's changing so fast.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. But I mean, you know, Adobe is still going to be around. I, I would assume like we were talking about Banana or Nano Banana. Nano Banana, like, like Photoshop will still be around. They still update it. They still, they still put stuff in there. They'll compete.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, I think, I think what will happen is maybe they'll be, they'll be kicked down a couple spots. I think Adobe will. I do. I, I think. Because I think people are getting so sick and tired of just, you know, what they do, what they stand for more. They're not for designers.

[B]

No, they're not. It's for this.

[A]

It is 100. It's a big corporate fat cat company. They, they just, and designers are their clients. We are their, you know, we're their target market and they do a really good job making us believe their.

[B]

This is all you need. You have to have this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, so it's nice to see. But, but I mean, apps like Nano Banana, whatever, regardless, if designers jump on that or jump on, you know, Adobe or use affinity, you know, like again, we have more options, which is nice in the future.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

The reality is customers are not going to want to learn those softwares and that's the big thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even if Nano Banana is the greatest, most awesome thing out there and it's great and it is pretty cool. Y customers don't want to learn how to use it. It's not as easy as people think, nor do I think it ever is easy to think. It is easy to get into, but hard to get good at yeah. And that's just. Just our industry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Design is easy to get into, but.

[B]

It'S hard stick around.

[A]

To stick around. To get good at it, to figure out what custom. What the real value designers bring. That's the difference between designers and all these decorators that are just going to fizzle away with AI.

[B]

Yes. Wow.

[A]

Anyway, that's heavy. She still hasn't said if she's going to go in design or not. She's making me sweat. Damn her. But it's okay. It's okay. I'll be there to support decision she makes.

[B]

When I. Well, when I'm replaced by her.

[A]

I'll be. I'll be cool. She'll be coming in.

[B]

Get out of here, old man.

[A]

Get out of here. Sean. She could bat Batman. Slide.

[B]

I'll gladly be Robin in that scenario.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Well, I hope you guys got a little bit out of this, you know, this kind of fun, kind of scary episode to cover.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah, it was. It was a little. Yeah, it was a little frightening, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Definitely getting there. I was like, oh, no, where are we going? Where's our future? While we're good with this, you know, I think a lot of people are worried about it, but I. I think there is no question in my mind. That's awesome. Graphic design is it. Design is here to stay. Whether it's graphic design, visual design, brand design, well, that's yet to be determined. But I would never persuade anybody away from a future in design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Plain and simple.

[B]

It's a hell of a career. Oh, really? It is. Yes. And armed with the right knowledge. Yes. You. You can. You can fucking get into space and kill it.

[A]

Kill it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Kill it. All right.

[B]

In a good way.

[A]

With that being said, everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Check us out on Instagram. You've already following us on YouTube and join in on the conversation. It hit us up. Hit us up. Just say hi.

[B]

Don't forget our newsletter.

[A]

Oh, Anger management for designer. A lot more of this newsletter format. Everything that we couldn't say in this episode, you might find in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just shorter. In about a thousand words or less.

[B]

Yeah. If you don't have the time to listen to us. But you should have the time.

[A]

You should have the time.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

Okay. And if we are too. Too much for you guys and give you a headache, then forward us off to people that you hate. Okay. And let's torture them. I love it. My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative.

[B]

Stay Sam. It. Sam La.