How Graphic Designers Limit Their Success With Guilt

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer – "How Graphic Designers Limit Their Success With Guilt"

Episode Date: February 10, 2026
Hosts: Massimo (A) and Sean (B)
Duration: Approx. 33 minutes

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Main Theme

This episode delves into the phenomenon of "designer guilt": the often-unspoken sense of not deserving more success, wealth, or recognition simply because graphic designers already have an enviable job. The hosts reflect on personal stories, cultural influences, and industry pressures that keep designers from pursuing more, and unpack how guilt can stifle ambition, growth, and satisfaction. Ultimately, they're here to push designers to claim what they've earned without guilt or shame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Reality of Designer Guilt

• Personal Reflections on Guilt

  • Massimo candidly shares his feelings about guilt around success, from booking a family vacation to buying nice things, explaining, "For years, I felt like that for owning a successful studio, earning a great income and more. And not because I didn't work hard, but because I'm a designer… it instantly feels selfish…" (00:00)
  • Guilt is shown to be a pervasive experience in the design community, often linked to cultural upbringing ("I thought it was Italian gu. Because Italian guilt is real. It is powerful." 03:37) and a general discomfort with visible success in creative industries.

• Social Attitudes Toward Designer Success

  • The hosts discuss how society tends to villainize successful creatives, attributing their achievements to luck or misdeeds rather than hard work.
  • "Nobody ever says, 'Oh, that guy in the Ferrari, he must have worked really hard for that car.’…most successful people I know are workaholics and they put it all on the freaking line." (04:11)

Hard Work Behind the ‘Lucky’ Designer

• Sacrifice, Not Privilege

  • Massimo recounts years spent without pay, building his agency with nights and weekends, and making hard choices that others didn’t have the guts to make.
    • "The first six months of working, I didn't even get a paycheck…the third or fourth year, I was finally making like 30, 35 grand a year." (05:54)
    • Selling his agency was treated as ‘hitting the jackpot’ by outsiders, but he frames it accurately: “I kind of feel that that paid for all the nights and weekends I put in to this business.” (09:09)

• Skill, Not Just Talent

  • The hosts highlight how even big-name designers (e.g., Aaron Draplin) “go through the same shit most of us do with imposter syndrome or…am I charging enough?” (09:45), emphasizing effort over supposed genius or luck.

Ambition, Growth, and the Modern Creative Contradiction

• Effort Beyond 9 to 5

  • Success in design is presented as unattainable without work done outside regular hours—learning new skills, expanding client bases, and taking risks: "If you're not willing to put in time on nights and weekends, that's okay…But when are you supposed to learn? When are you supposed to grow?" (13:50)

• Case Studies and Family Stories

  • Massimo shares his father's story—working extra jobs and pursuing correspondence courses after hours to build a better life, teaching that “9 to 5 is just to survive…if you need to make a difference, after hours is when you put in the extra effort...” (16:29)

• Designers’ Expectations vs. Market Reality

  • The job market is "a scary place"; job descriptions demand stacked skills, and designers compete against AI and global talent.
  • Reading a real design job posting, the hosts list tasks from Adobe suite mastery to content strategy, only to admit: "The scary thing is I can do everything on that list…It’s not like I can do it now. I could do all that 10 years ago." (23:01)
  • Sean: “I'll bet you dollars to donuts it's not nine to five…But the pay isn't 9 to 5 pay either.” (23:32)

The Gap Between Average and Successful Designers

• No Obligation, But No Guarantees

  • A clear message: Not everyone needs to hustle for more. Survival is fine—but understand others will outpace you if you don't.
  • "Career outcomes really affect the effort that is put into it. And that's the difference." (25:13)
  • “Average is going to get eaten up by everything that's out there. Average is what's going to end up being canned by companies like Amazon. Average is going to be eaten up by AI tools..." (26:34)

• Effort, Not Entitlement

  • Promotions, raises, or standout jobs require demonstrated value and initiative:
    • "You don't get more by doing the minimum." (18:35)

• Notable family and mentorship stories

  • Massimo’s anecdote about coaching his daughter in soccer reflects on how skill must be paired with ambition for true growth: "Here I am seeing someone who's got potential. Yes, but not that ambition. I'm hoping that will come." (25:43)

Letting Go of Guilt and Celebrating Earned Success

• Changing Mindsets

  • Massimo is learning to stop apologizing for success: "I have to learn how to stop apologizing for wanting a better life. And I shouldn't feel guilty…because I didn't. I earned it all." (30:24)
  • He's also encouraging other designers to be unashamed of their ambition, provided they're putting in the effort.

• Industry Takeaway

  • The hosts want listeners to know: enjoying rewards, whether a vacation or a nicer car, is justified when it's earned. The creative path is still hard work.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Massimo: "As a designer, have you ever felt guilty for the things that you've earned? …because I'm a designer. I mean, we already have one of the coolest jobs on the planet." (00:00)
• Sean: "You were like, I'm going to be gone for a month. I think you made it a week before the guilt kicked in." (02:27)
• Massimo: "I always have high expectations…I used to put that on employees…not everybody has the same drive. This is ambition, motivation, stomach for sacrifice. And they don't have to." (24:14)
• Massimo: "Everybody's the same way. If you just want to survive, you work 9 to 5, that'll pay your bills, that'll keep your lifestyle, keeps the lights on. Okay. But that's not gonna get you further in life." (16:29)
• Sean: "You don't get more by doing the minimum." (18:35)
• Massimo: “Average is going to get eaten up by everything…If you don't hurry up and start moving forward, that gap is going to be too long to make that jump in the end.” (26:34)
• Massimo: "You don't have to chase. Okay? …Your growth is optional. In that case, your learning is optional. Your effort 100% is optional.” (28:30)
• Massimo: "I have to learn how to stop apologizing for wanting a better life. And I shouldn't feel guilty…because I didn't. I earned it all." (30:24)
• Sean: "Success is earned. It's very rarely given." (32:31)
• Massimo: “If there's any sort of guilt that you feel at all about enjoying what you do or realizing what we do is incredible, just let it go and enjoy what you're doing, what you're earning. Because just because what we're doing is we enjoy it doesn't mean it ain't hard.” (32:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening reflections on 'designer guilt' – 00:00–04:30
• The hard work behind visible success – 04:30–08:30
• Sacrifice and early-career struggle – 08:30–11:00
• Growth = Extra hours, initiative, and learning – 12:30–18:30
• Family anecdotes: lessons from Massimo’s father – 15:00–17:00
• Market realities: job postings and AI – 20:00–24:00
• Not everyone needs to hustle—but don’t expect equal outcomes – 24:00–29:00
• Letting go of guilt and embracing ambition – 30:00–33:00
• Final call for self-worth without apology – 32:52–33:25

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Conclusion

The Angry Designer’s message in this episode is clear:

• Don't let guilt prevent you from claiming what you’ve earned as a designer.
• Success comes from sacrifice, not just talent or a ‘cool job’.
• You’re allowed to want more—if you’re willing to put in the work after hours and beyond.
• Enjoy your rewards and don’t apologize for ambition, as long as you know how much work you’ve put in.

Tone: Frank, irreverent, and motivating—true to the podcast’s “no-bull” branding.

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Closing Line:
Stay creative and stay angry.

Transcript

[A]

As a designer, have you ever felt guilty for the things that you've earned? I'm going to be honest here. For years, I felt like that for owning a successful studio, earning a great income and more. And not because I didn't work hard, but because I'm a designer. I mean, we already have one of the coolest jobs on the planet. We sit in cool studios and make cool shit all day long while other people break their backs doing work that they hate. So when we want more, whether it's money or freedom or opportunities, we innovate. Instantly feels selfish, like we don't deserve it, like success is something reserved for others and we should apologize. But recently, something hit me, something that completely changed the way I think about and see myself. And I think that a lot of designers need to hear it. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by wix Studio, we're breaking down the hard truths about ambition, success, and why so many creatives stay stuck even when they're doing everything right. Because that guilt that you're carrying, it's not coming from where you think. And while this episode might start off with my story, there's a lot here that'll save you from making the same mistakes I did. Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter. Anger management for designers. It's in the profile. Let's go. Cheers.

[B]

Cheers. Salut. What do we got?

[A]

Today we are drinking something straight out of Kentucky. This. This is Buffalo Trace.

[B]

Oh, there's a trace of buffalo in there for sure.

[A]

I have, after, like, 15 years. Okay. Officially booked a trip for my whole family to Mexico. What? Yeah, I know, right? I know. I. I haven't done this for. And again, because there's like, there's six of us. It's like, you know, it, it, it. It's a big trip. Right. And again, we're going to this resort that's, like the first, you know, Disney World of resorts down there. And it's got an eco park and parks and this. It's going to be just. And I haven't done this forever.

[B]

Yeah, right? Yeah. Usually you travel with me.

[A]

Yes. My family reminds me of that every time I do. I've always been in this hard work mode. Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I've never actually taken time for. For me. For myself and. Because I enjoy what I do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I was always feeling guilty about, like, rewarding the efforts of what I do.

[B]

Even when you were hurt. You remember when you had your knee surgery?

[A]

Yeah, I remember that.

[B]

Yeah. You. You were like, I'm going to be gone for a month. I think you made it a week before the guilt kicked in.

[A]

It wasn't even, I think after, after the third day of excruciating pain, I was online checking emails for everybody trying to leave the ship.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's true. This guilt is cr. And I've let this success guilt, like, literally rule so much of. Because. Okay. As it is. I mean, I love what I do. Okay. I love. I love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is it? Not love. Okay. We are in a beautiful office. Right. Most designers, beautiful offices, we work on a computer. We're not working back breaking jobs out in the cold. Minus 30, 40 degrees. Right. We're not out in the blistering heat. We generally, I mean, we're designing for a living. So as it is, we have it pretty good.

[B]

We were not taking ditches, that's for sure.

[A]

So as soon as you want more than this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You start feeling selfish. You're like, oh, you know, like, I already got it. Great. I make decent money. I'm happy every day. What now? Because I want something bigger. I want something better.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, I'm a selfish prick. I don't deserve that. And I struggled with that forever, dude. I, I, I did it. And it was, I, for the longest time, I thought it was Italian gu. Because Italian guilt is real. It is powerful. Okay. That whole country operates on guilt. Okay. But it's true. It's like, you know, I've been feeling guilty for years for, for everything. And, you know, oftentimes I don't talk about stuff. I don't talk about the things that I, you know, you know, I own. I buy my cars, my property.

[B]

I noticed that about you. And you, you talk about a new car or something like that, you're always sheepish and it's like, dude, you need to brag about that.

[A]

Well, appreciate that. I'm glad you appreciate that. But again, it's always, you're right. I've always kept it very quiet. I don't talk about it too much. It's like, you know, it's like I feel guilty to, to enjoy the, the fruits of my labor, the spoils, the rewards of, of all my own work. Right. You look online and it's like, you know, there's this discomfort people seem to have with, you know, successful people. They, they always tend to villainize them. Right? They, they see somebody super successful. They see somebody with their hard, you know, with their fanc. Suits or their big houses and they're like, oh, must be an. Yeah. Or must be, you know, he Must have been crooked or he must have screwed somebody over a hundred people over that. That just doesn't happen. So, you know, it's like we, we can't enjoy what we're working our asses off. Nobody ever says, oh, that guy in the Ferrari, he, he must have worked really hard for that car. I'm sure there are one or two YouTube creators that just probably don't even deserve that. But I can probably assure you most of the people that I know that I've ever met that have been really successful are workaholics and they put it all on the freaking line. Right? I, I didn't get here by, by, by working 9 to 5.

[B]

No, no. Certainly not if I worked a 40.

[A]

Hour week, that was a part time week for me. And it's true. It was just like, wow, kids are.

[B]

Like, the hell, Dad's home. What's going on?

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

Was there a fire in the office?

[A]

Right? It's true. I, unfortunately, I got here by sacrificing a hell of a lot. Exactly. And now I'm kind of like, I think I'm over it.

[B]

Did you make bank the very first time you. The first year of doing.

[A]

No, I didn't make, dude, the first six months of working, I didn't even get a paycheck the first six months. And after six months, okay, I finally started making 150 bucks a week. And I was like, yes, I know, right? Wow. 150 bucks and I was the king. Right?

[B]

Like, this is great.

[A]

I think, paying off. I think it took like my third or fourth year. I was finally making like 30, 35 grand a year. Wow. Isn't that ridiculous? It took that long? Yeah, just actually, I think it was closer to 40, but still. Yeah, yeah, it took years before that, right? Yeah. But sure enough, then at my, you know, five year mark of business, when, you know, I was like, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, treat myself. I needed a new car, you know, I bought my first BMW.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And of course, you know, people, oddly, people were like, congratulations. Which I thought was odd back then. It was a big deal. Now it's, they're, they're like Civics. They're everywhere. But, but then of course, you'd get, you'd get remarks, oh, Mr. Big Shot. And he's like, for sakes, guys, like, I haven't made a penny. Let me enjoy this. So I don't even know why people get like that. Because nobody ever sees the effort, Right. To go and, and when you're in it, you feel guilty. Yeah. With this, this whole mentality.

[B]

Yeah. I guess I could see that. I remember, you know, hearing a story from the other agency that we work with and the guys. Maserati got damaged while we were. And you know, it was. It was kind of a snoot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you're talking about. Exactly.

[B]

So, yeah, I totally get what you're saying with that. There is but, you know, snootiness.

[A]

So here's the thing below and, and, and here's the thing. And I. And while I know him and we make our jokes about him, I worked hard. He only works that. Like he has no. That personal life. Yes.

[B]

That dude is a hard working guy.

[A]

He is. Right? So it's like, it's one thing to be able to enjoy what we do, but it doesn't mean. Because we enjoy what we mean we do, it doesn't mean that we haven't earned the right to. To build a better life. If you want more. If I want more. I don't mean you want more.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not pushing it on you.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Right. And again, so that's the whole thing. When I sold, when Zed Factor was acquired, you know, I worked at this point, it was like 23 years and 23 years of fucking. A lot of work.

[B]

Ups and downs too.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

When I came on board, it was pretty grim there, dude.

[A]

Absolutely right. There was like over those 23 years, many times I went without a paycheck for months. Okay. There was two or three times. We were like just so close. Bankrupt. Right. And again, this. But then we finally got it going. Right, but.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was the only one who had anything to risk.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Nobody else did.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Because everybody else could have got unemployment, this, that. No, I was the one that was on the line for everything. Nobody sees that. Right? So then when this opportunity came, at that point, we were built. We're a little bigger. Right. And that's great. And I had somebody say, whoa, must be nice to get that fat paycheck. And I was like, not only did I think it was kind of an ignorant comment, but I was like, I kind of feel that that paid for all the nights and weekends.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

I put in to this business. And so, you know, holding on to that guilt for all these years kind of made me feel I lost out on a lot of stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong. Nobody wants to be a bragger. Nobody wants to be friends with that.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

But it's so easy to judge. And it's not just about material things. Right. Designers will, will look at people like Alan Peters or James Bernard or, or, you know, Aaron Draplin, and they're like, oh, they're so fucking good. You know, they're just so talented. How do you think those guys got there?

[B]

I was just gonna say, like, this is the thing, is if you got somebody like that and he's a success.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a reason for that.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Work speaks for that success.

[A]

Absolutely. Even now, I'm sure on, on a weekly basis, he'll probably go through the same shit most of us do with, you know, like imposter syndrome or like, what to do or, you know, am I pitching enough, Am I charging enough? He goes through the. But people don't see that. Yeah, they will only see that end result and they don't realize what it takes to get into that. Because in all fairness, you know, it takes extra time, extra effort. Right. And now a word from our sponsor. Designers. Let's be honest. Web design should be a graphic designer's job. It's bold, it's creative, it's experimental, and at its core, it is design. Layout just brought to life online. But somewhere along the way, graphic designers lost it. Developers took over, tools got complicated, and creativity took a back seat to code. The thing is, clients still expect us to bring their brand to life everywhere. And if we're not offering web design today, you're leaving money and potential opportunities on the table. That's where WIX Studio comes in. It's the web platform built for designers with a drag and drop interface that feels like a designer's tool. Plus, no code animations and AI powered tools. You can create fully custom websites that match your vision. Every pixel, every layout, every detail. So whether it's a simple branded brochure site or an online portfolio, or even a full blown e commerce experience, WIX Studio makes it all possible for graphic designers with tools that think like a designer, not like a developer. The web doesn't need more templates. It needs you and your creativity unleashed. And WIX Studio is going to give you that opportunity. So stop giving creativity away and take back the web for design. Visit wixstudio.com and design the web the way it is meant to be. I feel that there is this modern creative contradiction out there. Designers want freedom, okay? But at the same time, they don't want to go above and beyond to earn that freedom, okay? They want, like, why isn't given to me Right. I want it. Well, right? And again, it's like a lot of, a lot of talking about it, but not a lot of earning it. Right? Or they'll, they'll talk about they want better clients. You know, I want better clients. Why am I always stuck with these small stuff? And it's like, okay, well, what have you done to get better clients? Are you expanding your education? Are you niching? Are you getting, you know, more tight and offer more value to a specific clientele? Right. Or people want higher rates and it's like, okay, no problem, you want higher rates, but what have you done to try to earn those rates? What value? Extra value are you giving to your employer, to, you know, your customers that are going to get you those rates? Right? And I think they'll see stuff out there that says, hey, we want a designer who also can proofread. And, and you see all these people on Reddit that just go off on this. Well, I'm not proofreading. That's not what I was hired to do. I, I don't want to do anything other than graphic design. And it's just like, dude, then how do you ever accept, expect to move forward in this? Right? Like, you got to be just working nine to five coming in, you know, doing your, you know, that's not going to get you anything. Right? Working 9 to 5, you know, that, that, that's not how you grow yourself. You can't grow your skills. When you wanted to be a drummer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you do it during 9 to 5? No. Right. And you were a kid. It's not like you were brought up from six years old as a drummer.

[B]

No.

[A]

How did you learn drums?

[B]

How did I learn drums? Yeah. Well, by effort. And after, when, then when I could fit time in to do it.

[A]

And how much time? I mean, you told me earlier, like.

[B]

Three hours a night.

[A]

After work.

[B]

After work? Yes. And I started at like 20, so I was kind of late to the game. But yeah, I would go to my shitty old rehearsal space and I bang out on the drums for like three hours. Right? Yeah.

[A]

On a regular basis. And, and I mean, you kill it now. You're awesome at this. Well, my opinion rocks, right?

[B]

I'm just kind of thinking when you me that I was like, jesus, it's been that long and why am I not better?

[A]

But that's the thing, right? You know, 9 to 5, you know, is only your work. Time is your work. If you're not willing to put in time on nights and weekends, that's okay. Yeah, that's Absolutely. Okay. But when are you supposed to learn? When are you supposed to grow? When. When are you supposed to pick up new skills?

[B]

You know the funny thing about that, if I may.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At the Record, it was a newspaper, so it was very boring. But I remember actively looking at freelance gigs so that I could kind of expand my knowledge. Like, I wanted to be a better designer, so I needed something better than a newspaper.

[A]

Better than a newspaper. The funny thing is, newspaper was almost like. Because it was unionized, wasn't it?

[B]

It was, yes.

[A]

So, like, even that is like, you were so safe, so secure, but you were still looking for your own.

[B]

But I wrong. I wanted to be better.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I mean, I could have just taken that and said, all right, this is great. Newspaper will always be here.

[A]

Yeah, it's true, right? Yeah. Newspaper's not going anywh. What?

[B]

But, yeah, you know, you. I think it's. It's more of the effort, like. And I wanted to be better, so I wanted to take on other things.

[A]

And that's it. You need more. And it has to happen after hours. My.

[B]

It happens after hours. Exactly.

[A]

My father, God rest his soul, hardest working guy know, okay? He obviously worked Monday to Friday.

[B]

Y.

[A]

Like a freaking crazy man.

[B]

How many jobs this guy just.

[A]

Right, right, Just. And he did this just to survive, right? Okay.

[B]

His main job.

[A]

And then he went to his boss and he was like, you know, listen, I. I want more money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right? Because, you know, I have to grow. I have to do some stuff. And he had a plan because unfortunately, what my father was doing is Monday to Friday when he was working. He came from a family of 12, right? And they were poor as hell. Like, we're talking. You know, we're talking. They had dirt floors in their house. That's how it was crazy. And so he was like, all the money he made was sent home to the family, okay? So he was like, well, I need more because I want to start a new life. Okay? What can you know? How much more can you give me? And Guy's like, listen, I can't give you anymore because you're already at the top of what you're doing here, so I can't give you anymore if you want more money. He's like, if you want more money, though, you can come in on the weekends and clean and I'll give you more money. So then my dad, he heard two things. How to make more money and. And how to make more money, right? So in the short term, it was like, okay, I'm going to Come in on the weekends, earn money to buy my mom an engagement ring. That was why he took on this extra work. And then at nights and on weekends, after hours, he did correspondence to upgrade his skills to be an engineer. Oh, so, right. He basically explained it. He's like, look, he's like, you know, nine to five is just to survive.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Everybody's the same way. If you just want to survive, you work 9 to 5, that'll pay your bills, that'll keep your lifestyle, keeps the lights on. Okay. But that's not going to get you further in life, Right? That's a long, slow path. And at the end of it, great, good. You're happy, you're fulfilled. That's all it takes. You don't have to do anymore. Right. But again, if you need to make a difference, okay, after hours is when you put in the extra effort to develop your skills, to develop your personal skills, your professional skills. You don't have to necessarily do that and give it back to your. Your, your boss or the company you work for, like you said. Yeah, that could be freelance time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. But the thing is, growth has to come from somewhere.

[B]

It does.

[A]

And it can't come at your, your current job's expense on a daily basis.

[B]

Then there's the real current job that you're at is not fulfilling enough for you.

[A]

Oh, big time.

[B]

So this is the kind of thing where it's like, you make the choice like, like I did before. Like I could either just do this and ride the clock out, but I don't want that.

[A]

Well, no, absolutely.

[B]

You know, you know what I mean? I want to be better. This is a great job. Like you said at the beginning, I love this job.

[A]

So after hours is where you develop these skills, okay, that are going to improve your life. This is the kind of skills that earn you, you know, more money, higher position in your job, get you noticed, get you able, better job. Okay? But being that awesome production guy on a daily basis is only going to get you another production job.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Slowly, you know, putting in that same effort on your job every day is only going to get you that same job somewhere else.

[B]

Gray for gray.

[A]

People often confuse fairness with efforts, okay? And that's the thing, right? They confuse the two. They're thinking, well, I've been there for two years, right? I come into nine to five, I do my. So that's not fair that I'm getting overlooked for promotions.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay, Right. But why should they get a promotion if they haven't put in that extra effort? So it feels unfair. But they haven't done anything else.

[B]

Exactly. Hey, pal, can you read the copy over this? That's not my job. Well, yeah, it is.

[A]

You don't get more by doing the minimum. And I mean, I've had that talk, unfortunately, with so many employees over the years, it's like, well, they want more. It's like, okay, yeah, what else can we do? You're at the top of what you're supposed to being paid. Right. And I don't pay at the bottom of that wage. I pay, you know, middle to high. And I'm like, you want more? How else are you going to be of value to us to put back out?

[B]

That's exactly it. It's like, are you. What is? You said you're like, hey, if you can find something that makes money for me, I will give you a raise.

[A]

And I tell everybody the same thing. Right. Learn a new app, give me new skills.

[B]

We'll bring in extra cash.

[A]

Exactly. Take on an account, do something. But at the same time, if you're just giving me minimal effort.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just gonna get minimal pay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Can't do nothing for you, son.

[A]

You know, and the funny thing is, even if they showed more initiative to do, you know, to be more efficient in house.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That could change things. But at the same time, a lot of these people aren't, aren't the kind of people who have extra pep in their step.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Right. They'll, they'll still like have meetings. And, and in those meetings, they have no agenda. So what happens in the meeting? Right. It just kind of goes for. Rambles on.

[B]

It's just our law controls. Yeah. And you've wasted two hours.

[A]

Could have been done for 15 minutes.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Even if I saw somebody give extra effort during that 9 to 5, that would make a difference. The reality is the job market sucks out there and it's a scary place.

[B]

It's pretty bad. Yeah.

[A]

Like Amazon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just dropped like another 15, 16,000 positions in the past six months. It's like 30,000 jobs, man. That's a huge. That's crazy. Okay, 30,000 jobs in like six months. And they're like actually, you know, white collar jobs. Yeah, if you want to call it that. So marketers were lost in there. UI developers, UX developers, you know, designers were in that group. Okay. They all lost their jobs. And that's really fricking scary. There's hiring freezes all across tech. Okay. Designers help out tech all the time. Okay. We're intel. I mean, that's, that's half our client base. Almost two thirds of our client base is tech. Okay. Designers are there. They're. They're frozen. Job descriptions are through the roof. Okay, I got this. This is funny. This is funny because I'm in Reddit, you guys know I love Reddit. And I found a job description on there because of course, everybody, everybody, every graphic designer was just like, check. Oh my God, this is great. Job description, ready?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Responsibilities and skills needed. Full Adobe suite of software.

[B]

Okay, got it, got it.

[A]

Designed for print and digital assets.

[B]

Sure, of course.

[A]

Right. Photography, video, photo shoot planning. Okay. Okay. Video editing, photo retouching, motion graphics, animation and illustration. Brand design and management. Working with external client requests. Project managed company design, marketing, knowledge of Java, HTML, css, web design and management, email design, social media management, strategy, copywriting and content creation.

[B]

That's one job.

[A]

It's pretty crazy. Seriously, it's. This is why everybody got so pissed off, because looking at it, it's pretty freaking daunting.

[B]

But you know what?

[A]

I wonder, I wonder if. Okay, I know that sounds crazy, this list, right? So the expectations for this employer are freaking crazy. Okay. But I wonder, are their expectations that crazy or is the competition out there that crazy? That's what I think everybody needs to think of. That sounded like a giant list.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But again, it's like, you know that junior designers are competing with AI tools already. Yeah. Okay. And you know, because sadly, a lot of AI tools, they're almost replacing a lot of junior designer positions. Okay. Senior designers are competing against global talent, against people on the other side of.

[B]

The world for half fraction of the price.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, is it that the job expectations are out of line right now or is it the competition is crazy?

[B]

Yeah. Jesus. Well, I'll say. And you know, I mean, the funny thing with that is we've done a lot of that, that list, dude.

[A]

The scary thing is I can do everything on that list.

[B]

I know, I know. I'm like, okay, I know, I know, right?

[A]

It sounds like a lot. You put it out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's horrible. It looks horrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the reality is I can do all that. And it's not like I can do it now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I could do all that 10 years ago. And 10 years ago I would have been at the prime of where everybody was looking for work. And I could go into that job place and if that's a six figure job, be like, dude, I got here, give it to me. Yeah, I can do everything on here. So am I a fucking Unicorn. No, I don't think so.

[B]

But you know what? The constraints of that. I'll bet you dollars of the donuts it's not nine to five.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying.

[A]

But the pay isn't 9 to 5 pay either.

[B]

But this is what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is the kind of thing like once you get into that, the effort, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is going to be like, it's gonna.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

It's gonna be a lot. And there's no way you're gonna say at 5:00'.

[A]

Clock, no, the effort isn't equal. Okay. Across everybody. And people aren't equal. That's true.

[B]

Because. Yeah.

[A]

We know everything on that list. It's ridiculous. If we had to, we could work it. If we were in a pinch, we could do it. If we wanted to make more money. We learn these skills and transfer them forward. We can do it if it's possible.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So again, not everybody out there has to put in the same effort. And I've learned that that was something that was really hard for me because I always have hikes, high expectations.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I, I know what I am for myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so for the longest time, I used to put that on employees.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and, and, but then you hired.

[B]

Me and you're like, okay, I can let it slide a little.

[A]

It's like a landslide. But I mean, not everybody has the same drive. This is ambition, motivation, stomach for sacrifice. And they don't have to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But that's why those are the people that often don't end up with all these extra. Outside of the normal things like constant vacations or, or a ridiculous car collection or properties or investments like. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's kind of silly. Right. So again, it's. Career outcomes really affect the effort that is put into it. And that's the difference. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Absolutely.

[A]

It's horrible to say, but. And I think that's why I'm starting to get more comfortable with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even if people can't see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm starting to feel comfortable that I know that that's what happens.

[B]

Exactly. And you know what I would say too, that that is kind of an inspiration for other people as well. Like there's people back there that. That could fucking kill if the confidence level would come up. Do you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. Or ambition.

[B]

The skill set is there.

[A]

You know, I agree that.

[B]

Eye of the tiger and that's it.

[A]

Right. My daughter, I, I love her to death. My youngest. And she's an awesome little soccer player. Okay. And again, surprise, surprise, that's it. We're embracing that. I'm the coach on her team and she's a great technical player, but she doesn't have that aggression. And so right now she's learning all the skills, she's doing a great job, but she, she doesn't have that extra drive that I see in some of the other kids in her team. So, so here I am seeing someone who's got potential. Yes, but not that ambition. I'm hoping that that will come.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, you know, I don't know how much I can push it.

[B]

I'll keep pushing on her encouragement and that's, you know.

[A]

Exactly. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, she has that right. But it's just like you start seeing that gap going from average to great. Getting wider and wider and wider. Yes, that's a worry, especially in the design world.

[B]

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

[A]

Because honestly, I think average is going to get eaten up by everything that's out there. I think average is what's going to end up being canned by companies like Amazon. Average is going to be eate up by AI tools that are out there. And if you don't hurry up and start moving forward, that gap is going to be too long to make that jump in the end.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. You know, honestly, like, you don't have to be able to do everything if you don't want to. Right. Be comfortable, be happy. But if this is the kind of future you want, you better be keeping an eye on that, that long term plan. Because you don't have to want everything that I want. Yeah, that's fine. Right. But at the same time, if you do want to continue in a long term career in this space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You better be aware of what, what's in the horizon, because it's.

[B]

What's on the horizon is that job title.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah. Because gone are the days of, yeah, we need the C suite and maybe a little marketing.

[A]

Right, right, exactly. And you know what worries me is while not everybody has to just be like me and be hungry and work extra time and this, that, and that's fine, you can do whatever you want, you know, but there's always going to be somebody else out there who is going to be hungry, who is going to learn all those skills on that weird job application and they're going to be hungrier and they're going to have more drive and they're the ones that will end up taking those jobs.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay. Sadly, they will take it from you because those people will exist. They do exist. Okay. Equal opportunities absolutely exist, for the most part.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But equal outcome will never exist. And it won't. Because you're dependent. Right.

[B]

On somebody else, on your personality, other.

[A]

Skills, your soft skills. Right. And that's it.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

So. And, and I think that's what people need to remember and that's a very scary thing for a lot of people to come to terms, you know?

[B]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's kind of a mind.

[A]

Well, it is absolutely. Right. You don't, you don't have to chase. Okay? You don't, you don't. Your career is 100% up to you and it's optional based on what your responsibilities are, what your life is, what your long term goals are. Right. Your growth is optional. In that case, your learning is optional. Your effort 100% is optional. Okay. But again, if people do want more and, and they want to earn it, not feel guilty for it, not feel like they're entitled because it was given to them or it was lottery to them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have to be prepared that this has to happen after hours and on weekends. And those are the driving factors that will take somebody from here to the next level. To the next level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And unfortunately, hopefully everybody, those people won't feel as guilty as I do.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know why.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I know. And again, it took a long time for me to actually get over that, which is kind of unfortunate.

[B]

I've seen you coming out of your shell now, so that's, that's kind of.

[A]

Because I'm coming in with Gucci and you know, glitterace coming in. Hey, guys, get the star studded glasses.

[B]

He looks like Elton John on a normal day. What's up, homies? He always comes in, you know.

[A]

Well, the reality is it's, you know, you do, you earn through sacrifice and that's.

[B]

And that's good. Yeah. And, and as to the people that you know, that on you for selling out.

[A]

Yeah. Right. Well. And again, what's changed?

[B]

What has changed here?

[A]

Yeah. Nothing. Actually.

[B]

It's the same.

[A]

It is the same. We have more clients, you have less.

[B]

On your head to deal with.

[A]

Right. In a lot of ways.

[B]

In a lot of ways.

[A]

You know, and, and I can do stupid things like take a vacation. So foreign.

[B]

How selfish.

[A]

But FYI, this summer I'm taking a three day vacation and racing one of my cars. That's cool.

[B]

That is very cool.

[A]

And again, I should have done those 10 years ago.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But I didn't have those cars 10 years ago. But again, it's like, you know, I have to. To learn how to stop apologizing for wanting a better life. Okay. And that's the thing. Right. And. And. And I shouldn't feel guilty, you know, or listening to people who criticize about me having that better life, because I didn't. I earned it all. You did. Right. I absolutely earned it.

[B]

And the sacrifice was there, too, because I'll. Like. Like I said before, when you were coming up and in your 20s, you probably didn't do a lot of stuff.

[A]

No, no, no. Not after. I did work a lot. I had fun, but I worked a lot. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And that's what nights and weekends were for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, you know, and again, a lot of people will struggle with this because we already start as designers. We already start with an incredible job. Yes. Okay. What we're doing, we could be out digging ditches. We could be out on in the freezing cold building houses or in the blistering heat, roofing or digging whatever. Right. Like, there's so many worse. So we're already starting at an incredible baseline. Yeah. So anything that we try to aspire for after that might. Might feel a little selfish.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But the reality is, it doesn't mean that we're not entitled to work for those things. Okay. We have to. And that. That's not just monetary. That's not just, you know, cars or houses or this or that. We're talking your skills, you know, a better position in life. We're talking, you know, just anything in general, a business instead of working for somebody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that effort has to be put in. Okay. What people don't see are those hours. Okay. That, you know, nobody celebrates. Those are the hours that nobody sees. Okay. And those are the hours that will pay off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what I want everybody to remember.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

See, I feel guilty because this whole episode feels like me ranting Italian guilt.

[B]

Look at it as inspiration. This is kind of one of those things.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

Somebody needs to hear that there is a dark spot, but there's also a light at the end of the tunnel too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you are willing to put in the effort. Agree. Pay off.

[A]

It can't.

[B]

Again, even. Even today. Even today, I think there's. There's still hope, dude.

[A]

You know, even some of those YouTubers that are just obnoxious and you just want to punch them in the face, they still put in a lot of time and effort to get to those crazy numbers that they do do, right? So yeah, yeah, it's, it's, you know, success is earned. It's very rarely given. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

All right, everybody, I hope that you guys have felt a little bit of this. And if there's any sort of guilt that you feel at all about enjoying what you do or realizing what we do is incredible, just let it go and enjoy what you're doing, what you're earning. Because just because what we're doing is we enjoy it doesn't mean it ain't hard.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Is great, but it's hard work and people need to remember that. So please, by all means, enjoy what you do. You know, follow us, hit us up, send a hi to us. And I think that's it.

[B]

Yeah. Nice.

[A]

My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry. Sam. Sa.