How Top Graphic Designers SEE Opportunities That You Don't

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer
Episode Title: How Top Graphic Designers SEE Opportunities That You Don't
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host/Author: A Graphic Design Podcast that cuts through industry bull to help frustrated Graphic Designers charge what they're worth and build creative careers.

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Introduction

In this episode of The Angry Designer, hosts Massimo and Sean delve deep into the unique perspectives that set top graphic designers apart from the rest. They aim to uncover the mental shifts and mind hacks that enable designers to spot opportunities others might overlook. Through engaging dialogue, personal anecdotes, and practical advice, they provide listeners with actionable insights to elevate their creative careers.

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1. See the World Like a Designer

Massimo begins by emphasizing how designers inherently view the world differently. This distinct lens allows them to instinctively notice details and patterns that others might miss.

Massimo [00:00]: "Designers definitely look at the world through a completely different lens. Not everybody understands, you know, the way we see the world and why."

The conversation highlights the importance of continuously refining this perspective to avoid stagnation and maintain creative vitality.

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2. Think Like a Storyteller

Both hosts agree that storytelling is integral to effective design. By weaving narratives into their work, designers create more memorable and impactful pieces.

Massimo [14:15]: "We always try to find the why in what we're doing... It gives us a little bit more context and a little bit more meaning."

They discuss how stories connect the dots for viewers, making designs not just visually appealing but also meaningful and relatable.

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3. Think in Systems

Designers often perceive their work as part of a larger system rather than isolated components. This holistic approach ensures consistency and coherence across various platforms and materials.

Massimo [19:33]: "We tend to think in systems... Understanding how your work fits into a bigger picture helps you create more cohesive designs."

Practical advice includes mapping out how different design elements interact within a brand's ecosystem to ensure scalability and adaptability.

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4. Seek Inspiration Outside of Design

Massimo and Sean stress the importance of drawing inspiration from diverse sources beyond the design realm. Exposure to different art forms, cultures, and environments can spark unique creative ideas.

Massimo [23:12]: "Inspiration comes from outside of your office, outside of your screen... Spend time in museums, galleries, antique shops."

They advocate for immersing oneself in various cultural experiences to expand the creative toolkit and avoid the monotony of digital-only inspiration.

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5. Combine Big Picture Thinking with Micro Details

Top designers balance overarching concepts with attention to minute details. This dual focus ensures that while the overall vision remains intact, every element contributes meaningfully to the final product.

Massimo [29:16]: "Good designers can step back to see the bigger picture and zoom in on the micro details... It's about aligning your efforts with a broader vision."

The hosts recommend auditing existing brands to understand how large-scale strategies are supported by detailed design elements.

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6. Simplify Complexity

Designers excel at breaking down intricate problems into understandable and user-friendly solutions. Simplifying complexity enhances user experience and accessibility.

Massimo [34:05]: "We tend to try to simplify complex solutions to make them easier to understand... It's about making the end user's life better."

They illustrate this by discussing how effective infographics can distill dense information into clear, engaging visuals.

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7. Empathize Deeply

Empathy is a cornerstone of design. Understanding the end user's needs, frustrations, and emotions allows designers to create solutions that genuinely resonate and serve their audience.

Massimo [38:00]: "To design something, you need to understand that end user... If you can't connect with someone on an emotional level, you're in the wrong space."

Practical tips include observing real-life interactions with designs and stepping into the user's shoes to identify pain points and opportunities for improvement.

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8. Stay Curious and Keep Learning

Continuous curiosity and a commitment to learning are vital for staying relevant and innovative in the ever-evolving design landscape.

Massimo [41:26]: "Staying curious allows you to adapt to new trends, technologies, and ways of thinking... It drives growth and helps tackle bigger challenges."

The hosts suggest dedicating regular time to explore new tools, industries, and techniques to keep the creative spark alive.

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9. Deconstruct How Things Work

Top designers often dissect existing designs to understand their underlying mechanics, motivations, and systems. This analytical approach fosters deeper comprehension and inspires innovative improvements.

Massimo [46:34]: "Deconstructing an ad helps you understand the mechanics, motivations, and systems behind it... It allows you to see opportunities in complex complexities."

They encourage listeners to reverse-engineer designs and everyday objects to uncover insights that can inform their creative processes.

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10. Find the Real Problem More Than Just the Solution

Rather than merely addressing the superficial issues presented by clients, top designers dig deeper to identify the root problems. Solving the actual issues leads to more effective and lasting solutions.

Massimo [53:21]: "Finding the real problem changes your focus from rushing to give the customer what they want to uncovering the real issues they need."

They illustrate this with an analogy where building a bridge isn't the true solution to a communication problem, emphasizing the importance of understanding the core challenges.

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Conclusion

Massimo and Sean wrap up the episode by reinforcing the ten distinct ways top graphic designers perceive and interact with the world differently. They encourage listeners to embrace these mind hacks to enhance their design skills, charge what they're worth, and build fulfilling creative careers.

Massimo [58:39]: "As a designer, it is what I do, and that's just how I view the world."

The hosts invite feedback and further discussion through their social media channels, fostering a community of like-minded designers dedicated to growth and excellence.

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Notable Quotes

• Massimo [00:00]: "Designers definitely look at the world through a completely different lens. Not everybody understands, you know, the way we see the world and why."

• Massimo [14:15]: "We always try to find the why in what we're doing... It gives us a little bit more context and a little bit more meaning."

• Massimo [34:05]: "We tend to try to simplify complex solutions to make them easier to understand... It's about making the end user's life better."

• Massimo [38:00]: "To design something, you need to understand that end user... If you can't connect with someone on an emotional level, you're in the wrong space."

• Massimo [41:26]: "Staying curious allows you to adapt to new trends, technologies, and ways of thinking... It drives growth and helps tackle bigger challenges."

• Massimo [46:34]: "Deconstructing an ad helps you understand the mechanics, motivations, and systems behind it... It allows you to see opportunities in complex complexities."

• Massimo [53:21]: "Finding the real problem changes your focus from rushing to give the customer what they want to uncovering the real issues they need."

• Massimo [58:39]: "As a designer, it is what I do, and that's just how I view the world."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for graphic designers aspiring to elevate their craft and career. By internalizing these ten perspectives, designers can unlock new opportunities, deliver meaningful work, and navigate the creative industry with confidence and resilience.

Transcript

[A]

Designers definitely look at the world through a completely different lens. Not everybody understands, you know, the way we see the world and why. I think we can all realize that these are things that, that designers do instinctively.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

This is the kind of stuff that, that we need to pay attention to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Recognize and keep working on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we don't get stagnant. Right. So we don't, you know, on a sudden, become a little too comfortable in our ways.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry Bull. And share what it takes to charge what you're worth and build badass, rewarding careers. My daughter recently asked me if being a graphic designer is just about drawing pictures, spoiler alert. It's not. Graphic design is about thinking differently, seeing the world through a lens of creativity and strategy. So today we're exploring the mental shifts and mind hacks that separate design from the rest of the world, and how to unlock new ways to see, think and create. And hey, if you're loving what we're putting down, don't forget to check out our newsletter, Anger Management for Designers. It's packed with stories, motivational tips, and no BS advice to help you level up your craft and get paid what you're worth. Sign up today on our website or at the link in our profile. Alright, alright, enough talk. Let's dive in and help you see the world like a true designer. Let's go. So I'm. I'm looking across at you, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From this table.

[B]

Oh. And what's wrong?

[A]

And you have two drinks and I have none. Oh, what a fucking guy.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

That was a big problem, buddy.

[B]

I forgot to push that one forward.

[A]

Yeah, right. Well, after looking at this, I could see why.

[B]

This.

[A]

Yeah, the color on this is beautiful.

[B]

Very nice.

[A]

Like it's. It's a really nice copper, isn't it?

[B]

It, yeah. Like, the other one's lighter, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah, it is. It is. The other. Okay, so. So just to give you guys a heads up, so a couple, a couple weeks or a couple episodes ago, I. I found this, this bourbon called Gold Bar. And it was actually. The bottle is in the shape of a gold bar and I actually liked it. I liked it so much I bought one over the holidays and drank that bad boy up. So then when we were, when I was looking for something new this week, I was buying a gold bar again. Yeah, you were just getting. Because it was completely picked over and I was buying one and the dude's like, hey, did you try the black one. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.

[B]

What?

[A]

What? And right away my mind could visualize, yeah, this gold bar in like a flat black. And he's like, yeah, it's over there, leftover from Christmas. And I went over there and it was a special edition double casked gold bar, but in a flat.

[B]

In a flat bar.

[A]

Look at the gold with the gold emble. With that gold coin.

[B]

Very nice.

[A]

I mean, it's so sexy. And I mean, I saw that. I, I right away, I was like, that's it. That's it.

[B]

That's the one.

[A]

92 proof. I again, I haven't tried it yet, but I like the other one. Let's hope I like this one. But this is straight bourbon whiskey finished in wine casks.

[B]

Wine casks.

[A]

Okay, so it's something a little different. And it's double. So it's double casked. So let's give this one a shot right off the bat. That color is beautiful.

[B]

This sure is nice. Smells great.

[A]

Does it smell? I haven't smelled it yet. Oh, dude. Oh, this one. I might be heartbroken with this. Well, isn't that funny? You can taste the, you can taste like the, the oak cask.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't taste the wine.

[B]

No.

[A]

This one's definitely oaky.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, smooth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very, very oaky. It's very oaky though, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I think that it's different. It smells good. It looks good. Let me try another sip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I could get in trouble drinking something like this.

[B]

This is very easy.

[A]

And you know what, though? It feels like a more mature drink for some reason that, that oak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Flavor that kind of hits your palate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes you like. I feel like. I know, right? I'm, I'm, I'm fancy. I'm a fancy drinker. I can appreciate the oak.

[B]

I should have a suit on.

[A]

Right? I, I would recommend, I would recommend this. You know, the, the issue is dangerous. It is.

[B]

I, Because I. This could, this could be by the.

[A]

End of this episode. I'm sure I'll have a second glass.

[B]

I'm sure you will.

[A]

No question.

[B]

Yeah, you'll stick. You'll stay later. So, you know, I got work to do.

[A]

I'll stick around. 10:00, Moss calling an Uber home.

[B]

Listening to Salt and Pepper all over it.

[A]

Why did that get in my mind?

[B]

It was awesome, though.

[A]

It's, you know, it's, it's because hanging out with my daughter too much and it's like you know, all of a sudden, all this crazy, weird music that we listen to is like the meme music that they're listening to. So I don't know if they actually take it as serious as we did back then, mind you. I don't know anybody took salt and pepper too seriously. Okay.

[B]

It's a catchy tune.

[A]

It's a very catchy tune.

[B]

I started singing it and immediately I was like, it's.

[A]

It's there, it's in your mind.

[B]

But like, we'll do that to you guys. But you're probably thinking now though, we.

[A]

Won'T push it on you guys. Okay, perfect.

[B]

Nicely done.

[A]

Oh, geez. It is. It's funny to learn. Learn the world from, you know, I guess a teenager's.

[B]

Yeah. With this meme stuff. Yeah, totally.

[A]

Like you're learning every. And I mean, the way they look at everything is so different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can appreciate it. You know, and. And interestingly enough, as you know, she is kind of interested in being a graphic designer. Okay. Kind of. She's definitely an artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, she comes to the realization that, you know, it's. You can be a starving artist or you could be a well fed designer.

[B]

Right. Well fed designer.

[A]

And I think that's the difference. And so that's, you know. But then she's like, she gave me the whole, well, don't graphic designers just draw fancy pictures?

[B]

Yeah, and I guess what I tell my parents.

[A]

But you know, it's funny because then I was like, I was trying to articulate. Well, it is more than just. I know, we joke about it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. We draw for a living. We are pa. Made to draw with crayons. You know, kind of like, you know, a metaphor from when we're kids and we're being paid now to draw. But you know, in. In trying to explain to her, you know, why it's more than just driving, drawing pictures.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It became really confusing at first. Right. Because then it's like, well, no, you see, we kind of do this, we kind of do that. She's always thought I was a quirky one. She did. Right. Like, because I would do random things. Like we'd be driving and I'd see like, you know, a new store opened up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, what is that? And it has nothing to do with me or anything, but cool logo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, hey, can you like snap a picture of that so I can check it? She's like, why do you care? And it's like, my response is, how.

[B]

Do you know, how do you not care?

[A]

Because this is. And then I explain, I'm like, this is part of my business. This is who I am. This is my life. And she's like, why? And I was like, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. I can't explain it. And it's just. Is the way I look at things.

[A]

It's, you know, it's funny because, you know, designers definitely look at the world through a completely different lens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And of course, you know, her, you know, obviously growing up with me, as her dad has seen that and experienced it. And I don't know if she just thinks I'm weird, which is definitely the case.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But probably true.

[A]

But there's a cool part to the graphic design half of me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And I think she's starting to understand because, again, there's so many weird things. Like, the most random places I find inspiration. Yeah, right. It's not. It's not always on Pinterest. It's not always on Google. Will you. Summer. When this past summer, we went to a cottage in the middle of nowhere, and. And, you know, I found this. This. This random antique shop. Okay. And it was like, literally an antique shop in the middle of nowhere. And what did I find? I found art. I found old graphic design books. I found stuff for the house like it was. And she's just. She's like, why would you even look there for inspiration? And I did find it. It's. It's all these funny quirks that it's like, you know, I think, you know, trying to explain to her what we do made me realize that it's going to come up with the list of, you know, like, how designers see the world and how to see the world through the lens of a designer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that. And then, you know, creative mind hacks. How to. Actually. So that. That's kind of where I came up with this idea of. I think this is something that we should talk about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, you know, not everybody. The more experienced you are, the more you can relate to these. But not everybody understands, you know, the way we see the world and why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. I think that's something that we take for granted.

[B]

And totally. Yeah. These are things like. Like, exactly like you said, like. And I think the experience of going to a. Like an antique store or something like that, a. You're physically touching it, you're seeing it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And that's something that nobody really has anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, a lot we had books and stuff like that, but nine times out of 10, we're going to the, you know, we're going to the classics on. On. On Google and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

For awesome logos. But also, you know, you get to see this stuff in. In. In the wild. Like, this is kind of cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, it's something that's. That. Literally, you look at that. It's history.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

50 years old. So, you know that's hand drawn.

[A]

Yep. Right. Yeah.

[B]

So there's something about that craft that. That draws you in where most people would look at that and say, that's just a paint can with, you know, whatever on.

[A]

It's so true, though.

[B]

No, it's not. But look at this. Look at how.

[A]

Look at how cool it is. Right. And. And it's. It's. It's just. It's just. It goes so much deeper and. And it's on so many different layers. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How we played as kids, you know, to, you know, the way we. We approach music taste. Right. I. I don't know many designers who only have a single music taste.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

It seems like, you know, that very broad. Very broad. Right. Where it's like certain music kind of, you know, makes you lean towards certain works, certain artists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I remember I used to have playlists for industry I would work in. Right. And again, you just. You jump on it if it was something a little bit more country or something a little bit more, you know, drum and bass, if it was, you know, badass or if I was under a tight timeline.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, yeah. So, I mean, in trying to explain this to her, I figured I came up with this list of how to see the world. Like a designer with creative mind hacks on how to actually do this. All right, so there's 10 things. 10 things. And I think. I think you can probably relate to almost every one of these.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Yep. You know, but again, young or old, I think everybody can appreciate, you know, this list, like, number one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. You know, how to see the world.

[B]

Like a.

[A]

Like a designer. We always try to find the why.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In what we're doing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So we're not just sitting back and, you know, working on stuff at a surface level. Right. We don't. We don't just. Sorry. The more experience you get, you get a task. It's often not very blind, where you're just like, I'm just making it look pretty. I'm just doing this. Right. We tend to try to uncover the why behind the ask. Right. You know, this way, it gives us a little bit more context with what we're doing a little bit more meaning in, in, you know, what we're actually creating. And then this way, we're actually creating stuff that resonates, not just stuff that looks pretty.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that's a huge thing. Right. You know, the reason why I think this is a mind hack. Right. Is because this, doing this rewires your brain to think strategically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

About everything. Not just aesthetically, not just the surface. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And I think, you know, you look at some of the, you know, most brilliant companies in the world. Right. Like Apple was so big on the why, not the what. Right. And I find a lot of our tech customers would only focus on the what.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. So for us, it was, it changed our business. Our whole business was on that. Right. But that, that just came from this, you know, instinctive. Why? Why are you doing this? Where did this come from? Why? Right. We're trying to focus on the foundation of where this idea came from. Right. And I get it, this sounds pretty high level.

[B]

It is. Yeah.

[A]

But it's like, it's the why behind the ask.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is. Tends to be a lot more interesting than the ask itself.

[B]

Well, the ask itself is very, is sometimes very surface oriented. And you, if you're an experienced designer, you know that there are deeper their roots to this.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You're just seeing the tree, you're, there's.

[A]

There'S absolutely this, this is all foundational stuff that, that helps you, you know, with the direction on what you're designing. Right. It actually helps, you know, helps lead the design. Right. So again, you're not just doing, you're not just a graphic artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a graphic designer. Because now you're doing something with intent. Right. So if we had to give like a practical hack to my daughter. Right. Right. You know, as she starts graphic design school or anybody else out there. Right. You know, when you start a project, Right. Ask, you know, what's the ultimate goal or the purpose here of what it is I'm doing. Right, right. You're asking me for something, but why? What is it you're asking for? Right. And you know, maybe what you can do is research the origins of a company. Right. Research the origins of a product. Right. Or trend to try to understand, you know, the driving philosophy behind why they did what they did.

[B]

Right. Exactly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Start at the end.

[A]

Really start at the end. Right.

[B]

This is where you're gonna go. And let's work our way back.

[A]

And work our way back. Yeah. Because honestly, I always find, you know, like, when you Dig deep for that. Why? It just helps make for a more compelling artwork.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right? It makes it much more interesting, you know, when you find out the why behind the brand, why behind the company, but even why behind the purpose of everything. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And again, this is just. It's just a constant curiosity, which we'll talk about later. All right, so how to see the world. More like a designer. Number two.

[B]

Number two.

[A]

Okay. Think like a storyteller.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

I swear, I think I'm crazy because it's like my mind. I'm always narrating stories in my. I'm walking in the mall, I'm narrating. You know, he's. He's in. You know, he's.

[B]

He's.

[A]

He's on the search for something at the mall, right? He ends up, what if this happens? What if? And it's like, I'm constantly trying to do this, right? But the reason being though, is. Is in our world, I think we understand. Designers understand that, you know, stories stick to people's minds, right? It's a lot easier if I was to shoot out, you know, five objects, right? Telephone booth, explosion, glasses, you know, jacket. You'd be like, what?

[B]

Yeah, what are those?

[A]

But all of a sudden, if I'm like, you know, dude's walking down the street wearing glasses and a coat, there's an explosion, he jumps in a telephone booth, and he flies out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, you'd remember all of that, all.

[B]

Of that really easily, right?

[A]

Because when you start thinking in stories, it connects the dots, and your mind is looking for ways to connect data points.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So as designers, right, we look to create a story, to connect all those dots. And this isn't just about, you know, like. Well, this literally goes for everything. You see this in logo design. You know, the great designers out there, their logos tell a great story.

[B]

Bass looking at you.

[A]

Right? Right. So, Bass, buddy, you know what? Like, it's. It's. What this does, you know, in your mind is it changes. You know, it changes the narrative from decoration to communication, okay? And that's. That's. That's the big difference, which is what the sticky factor is in remembering this for people, right? This now, you know, allows you to create a design that. That has meaning and relevance, right? And it resonates with people on a whole different level. Right? And again, this. This helps you focus, again, on that why for each piece, because now it tells the whole story. You know, I do find that, you know, your mind just automatically goes and tries to put logical points together in Order.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. And I think, you know, telling a story is just a designer's natural way of doing that. You know, mathematicians try to solve problems that way. Right. They're programmed a little bit differently. Maybe some people just try to memorize all the different points.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think for us, we try to build a story around all those points.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it really does make a difference in the way we think, approach things and definitely remember things.

[B]

Definitely. Humans are communicators.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

This is what we've done all our, all our lives, like through smoke signals or whatever the hell.

[A]

You're right. Like drawing stories initially, like a lot of the cage on people just thought they were like, you know, letters, characters, fonts, but when they started doing Instagram real on the wall, geez, Social media was a little, little more slower back then.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's so funny.

[A]

So the practical hacks, okay. For thinking like a storyteller, right. Is to make sure that the content that you use, you know, in your social posts, in your website, you know, in your. In your ads, try to make sure that that content flows naturally and tells a story for people to remember. Right. You know, you've got the hierarchy of an ad. Right. Make sure that headline, the sub headline, you know, backs headline. Okay. So it's like the headlines. Number one, sub headline continues on that. Number two.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The body copy continues on that message. Three, make sure your image, you know, enhances that and, you know, matches it so it tells the story. Number four, and then you finish it up with that call to action. Every one of those build on each other to tell a story.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

An old archaic way of thinking about ads.

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

But it works.

[B]

It totally works. Exactly. Yeah. Because you read through, you go through your eyes drawn through this. This is what I need to do. This is, this does. This is what I want. This is how I get it.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's perfect. Yeah. And yes, simplicity is always key in this kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah, right. Yeah. You don't want to tell, you know, a full paragraph in a sentence can do the job.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, but you know, another point to this is I think that, you know, the nice thing about the story, right. Is is when you're thinking as a story, okay. In order to make a story exciting, you want to add some sort of emotion connection. Emotional connection there. Right. So that's telling a story is how you enhance the emotional connection that you want people to have with that story.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So that's the best way to make people remember because now all of a sudden, you told me to memorize all those things or you're telling me a Superman story. Yeah, well, I'm emotionally connected to that Superman story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The other one was just trying to memorize five points.

[B]

Right.

[A]

No connection at all.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

So if a brand shows me an ad and it gives me a cold headline, five bullet points to remember, and a call to action, who fucking cares?

[B]

Noise.

[A]

But if that. If that same one, you know, gives me a problem in a big statement, and then the sub headline tells me how to, you know, follow up and solve that problem. And these are benefits to my life. All of a sudden, I'm connected to that message.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So. So we think like storytellers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Wow, that was a long way to talk about storytelling, wasn't it? Very windy.

[B]

That was a great story.

[A]

I see what you did there. All right, number three. Okay. How to see the world like a designer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We tend to think in systems. Okay. When we create something, when we see something, we generally don't take it at face value. We know that it. More times than not, you know, it's not a standalone piece, but belongs to a bigger, larger system.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Whether that's a corp. Id, whether it's a campaign, whether it's different facets of a company. Right. Very rarely, you know, do we just focus on that one deliverable in hand. Right. Whether it's. So this works for branding, obviously, websites, it works for interfaces. Right. We tend to think bigger across systems so we can start thinking and planning, you know, a larger, more cohesive look, feel, you know, to the whole package. Not necessarily. And you know, that. That, I think, is the hardest part is when a designer just gets one tiny part to a whole system.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm greedy. I want the whole thing. You know, Christy Campbell, I love watching her posts because it's like, you see.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Amazing at this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

She.

[A]

She has, you know, the logo, but she. She even had the post recently that was like, that's not enough.

[B]

That's not. Yeah.

[A]

You need more to this.

[B]

I need a logo. No, you don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You need more than that.

[A]

More than just the logo. Right. And then.

[B]

And yeah, we're ingrained. Like, it's just like. Like, yes, we could give you just a logo.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But no, we can't do that.

[A]

Right, Right. But we're not recommending it. Not.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's not for the money factor. Right.

[B]

It's not. It's to help you.

[A]

Exactly. Right, yeah. So again, we, you know, we tend to think in systems right now. Why? It's a mind hack. Again, this comes back to. It helps shift our perspective from thinking an isolated creative piece to understanding how everything interacts at a bigger level. Right, okay. So this is that whole idea, this approach makes you more efficient, okay. At building items. Right. Because you're planning for the whole picture. Right. It helps you solve problems on a much broader scale. You know, this is just, you know, how a whole interconnected, cohesive, you know, corp ID works.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So practical hacks, okay. Map out every design element, you know, that interacts in, you know, with everything else in the system. You know, you're building a social post. Well, what is that social post telling you to do? Where is it pushing it? Where's the profile heading? If you're creating, you know, if, if it does push you to the website or to buy more, then what's sitting over there? You know, is it going to be more how to picks? Is it going to be, you know, information pieces? You know, you're definitely going to see the logo. What else are you going to do? Very, very, very, very rarely does something work in isolation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And honestly, I think in this case, you, you need to test your scalability of whatever it is you're creating. If your logo only works as a logo. Okay. And you, you can't find ways to brand it into something larger and build a bigger corp idea around it, I think that's a really clear sign that.

[B]

It'S a fail, that it's not good.

[A]

Right. If, if you can't imagine how this cool, trendy drop shadow logo that you created, you know, with this, you know, funny spectrum gradient on it, you know, and a half tone effect put over top of that. Right, yeah, that's exactly it. Right. Throw it on something else.

[B]

Right, yeah, no, you're right. Exactly. That is a huge, huge fail.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because as soon as you put that on any piece of product, you're gonna run into problems.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Right, yeah.

[A]

All right, so designers think in systems.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So how to see the world like a designer number four, Seek inspiration outside of design.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And we just talked about this, right? The best ideas don't come from scrolling on Pinterest or Instagram or looking through behance.

[B]

I mean, even sitting behind your computer, Right.

[A]

Even sitting behind your computer doesn't like come there. That's, that's. I mean, that's. You're just looking to steal stuff to make it Your own, which is fine. We've all done it before. But that's not real inspirational. Right. That would be probably the closest thing to a hack, I think, as you can think about. Right. Inspiration comes from outside of your office, outside of your screen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dude, when we just came back from New York. Okay. And didn't look at any graphic design directly. Okay. But we went to galleries. You know, we saw some of the greats out there. I'm looking at a Picasso painting in the bathroom and. Inside joke. Inside joke. But. But, you know, I'm looking at that and there's no way that I'm going to create something that looks like a Picasso.

[B]

No.

[A]

But it doesn't mean that it's not inspiring me. You know, it's not. It's not like burnt, you know, heating. Heating me up inside. Creating a new fire of an excitement.

[B]

He was very bold and. And very much on brand with what he was doing.

[A]

He was doing at every stage.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there are parallels. Definitely. Absolutely.

[A]

There is.

[B]

So it's. It's not. It's not an oddity to be inspired by art.

[A]

Exactly. Right.

[B]

To do it is not.

[A]

It's a whole other thing. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what it does is it this. This doing it this way encourages you to think outside of the medium.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. If you're only going to be, you know, exposing yourself to a digital world, everything's going to look digital. It's going to have. There's going to be no depth to what you do. You're not going to enjoy it if you're always stuck behind a computer. But again, you go to, you know, a little. Little town in the middle of nowhere and you go to that antique shop and find inspiration. You see, you know, weird little gallery there, which we also found in that little. Little weird town. Totally inspiring. You know, meeting the owner there. Right. What this does is, is, is by exposing yourself to all these other, you know, areas of inspiration, it expands your creative toolkit. Okay. And I don't think people realize that. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Alan Peters was going on how he was now collecting use a gunshell cases, you know, retro ones from, you know, 80, 90 years ago. And they were fantastic. The artwork, he was. She had a post on that and I was like, think I want to do that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm Canadian and we don't have many gunshot cases brands out here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

[A]

It's a little living.

[B]

But.

[A]

But the idea was, you know, it's just that it was just something cool because it got him out of the house.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It got him, you know, into the world and looking and he, you know, even though he's looking for these, you know, these, these shell boxes and advertising and branding, he's being exposed to everything else out there. Right, exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, so the practical hacks here, if we had to give any, obviously the obvious, spend time in museums, spend time in galleries, you know, antique shops, record stores, which are fantastic new cultural environments. Okay. See how, you know, the rest of the world approaches, you know, certain looks and feels and designs and elements. Right. You expose yourself to that, you know, hack. My trip to Toronto, which was a lot of street art. Street.

[B]

That's incredible. Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God, did I love, love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, try translating non design inspirational stuff like music or an architecture into, you know, a design concept. Right. And. And I mean, again, I'm seeing designers that follow us do that. I'm seeing some angry designers taking, taking music and creating awesome posters from it. So, you know, use it, embrace it. I. This is, I think this is one of my favorite parts about this, about seeing the world like a designer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, if people don't think this way, they just think that they're going to sit down in front of the computer and look for inspiration on Google.

[B]

Wait. And that's the worst. Like, because that, this is not that kind of space where you just absolutely, you know, inspired automatically. It's sometimes very difficult to be inspired. And it. And the best part is, like, we talked about shower thoughts, things like that. Like.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Sometimes you lay down in the middle of the night and you're like, hey, I know. That's it.

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

You know, you're just like, God, I hope I remember that.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

The best ideas generally come when you're away from it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Which is.

[A]

I can't tell you how many times I've woken up at like 2:33 in the morning.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Everything's dark. And I'm like, that's it.

[B]

This is how this work is gonna work, right? Yes, yes, exactly.

[A]

That happens a lot, oddly, with this podcast.

[B]

Does it really?

[A]

Right. I'll be like, I'll go to bed, like, and then I'll wake up in the middle of the night. And I'm like, like, I got it. Sean, we need to talk about this.

[B]

This is funny because. Yeah, like Tuesday I'll come in, we're going to do this. And then Wednesday, like, nope, nope, we're scrapping that idea. This is where we're going with it, right? It's like our thought, oh, my God. But yeah, it's totally true. This inspiration strikes in the. In the weirdest spot. Not always necessarily in front of your computer.

[A]

Absolutely. Oftentimes more not. I'd even. I'd question if people do get inspired in front of a computer, how. How often that works, or if it's. If you get inspired stepping away from the computer after you're loading yourself up with everything that you see in the computer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Because you kind of. A lot of it, you know, if you're looking for the same thing, if you're scrolling through Pinterest, there's a lot of the same stuff kind of thing, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, it's hard. It all almost kind of turns into just like a, you know, noise kind of thing. Whereas you're. If you're off doing something else and you're like, calm and quiet and it's like, yes. Because we're always thinking about. Always this. Oh, yeah, I know. I wish I could turn it off sometimes. Sometimes it's hard. But it's also a good thing, too. I think it's a great. Yeah. Like you're. You're always kind of seeing. Seeing the world through the eyes of.

[A]

A designer, and that's exactly it.

[B]

Your life. You're always inspired by stuff. Yeah.

[A]

All right, all right. How to see the world through the eyes of a designer. Number five. We combine big picture thinking with the micro details. Okay. So this is true on so many levels. And what I mean is, you know, yeah, you could get that job from the customer, but how many times has a customer brought us and said, I need, you know, a new website, and. And it's like, well, why do you need a new website?

[B]

Oh, what's the reason?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And then I go, oh, well, it's just not converting. And then you go on the website and you're like, dude, your website's not the problem. Your whole brand is a mess. Nobody knows what it's for, what you're doing, what you're offering. You say this on this page. This. You know, that's the issue. You wouldn't be able to do that unless you were able to pull back and see the. The bigger picture. Whether it's the bigger picture of the brand, whether it's the bigger picture of how the company operates, their product, their market. You know, good designers, okay. We tend to be able to step back and be able to look at the bigger picture, and then kind of Zoom in on the micro details that we're working on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. This kind of plays with that whole system idea, but, but much, much, much larger. Larger in the sense of, you know, it helps us understand, you know, bigger overarching goals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. It helps us address longer future needs that might come up. Right. Helps, you know, helps keep, you know, our efforts aligned, you know, with a bigger, broader vision. Mission. Right. This is key in our land and expand strategy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Because if we're just order takers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We would never land inside a company deeper and help other departments.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes man. Are you a yes man or a yes and yes. And we can also do this.

[A]

Yes. And we can do that. God knows, that's whatever. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what this does is, is, you know, thinking this way, you know, trains your mind to think strategically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not just creatively. Okay. And that's the power in what we do. You know, anybody can make something look good, but when you can strategically make something look good, you know, look good with meaning, with, with a direction, with an angle, with purpose.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, that changes everything from the customer's point of view, how, you know, the, the, the end user's point of view, how they're going to get this right. All of a sudden it's just, it's working stronger, which is important. Right. And this also lets, you know, helps you see how your work fits in a bigger, broader scheme of things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And again, going to our land and expand model, this has helped us entirely because we knew, hey, we're building this. But what if another department could use this? You know, I understand your bigger company goes to this. Well, we should be pushing people to this department, you know, and then when you're in that department, we should be like, hey, I've got another idea for you here. We should be pushing it back to the other. Regardless though, where I'm going with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it allows you to, you know, to fit whatever it is you're working into. Bigger systems. Right. For bigger forward planning, adaptability, longer term solutions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So practical hacks in this situation for people. Okay. To give it a try. Audit one of your companies, one of your customers, brands, ecosystem, or better yet, not even one of your customers. Somebody else.

[B]

Somebody else.

[A]

Okay. Go take a look at Nike Adidas Puma if you're into shoes or, you know, Gibson if you're good. You're in guitars, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look at the brand materials. Okay. Inspect their logos, their typography, the images, the messaging of the tone. Right.

[B]

Give.

[A]

See if you can figure out what that overarching big picture message is that all their material is trying to deliver. Right. If you can start picking up on those cues, it makes the little things so much easier and so much more powerful. Right. And again, you know, when you're actually then working on pieces. Okay. Work on that piece and then take a step back and ask yourself if this aligns with the bigger picture that you know of the company, whether this is what you're working on or some of the stuff that you've discovered.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So this is when, you know, you can kind of see when companies hire, you know, contractors for solo assignments. Okay. And it's like you can totally tell when they hire somebody that that isn't one, you know, in their usual roster.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because all of a sudden they have a, a piece of material that just doesn't match anything else. Whether it's. It might look kick ass, but it, it doesn't have the same brand, you know, emotion. It might not have the same messaging. It looks kind of like an outlier, you know, like that evil step cousin that lives under the st. Right. You know, so it's interesting. It's really interesting when you're able to pick those out a lot more. You know, and this is the thing.

[B]

I think, I think most customers or people who follow stuff like this will be aware and they will know. They'll notice that little that comes along in whatever and you're just like, something doesn't fit. Right?

[A]

Not quite.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So not.

[A]

Absolutely not good to do that. All right. Right. Okay. We're past the halfway point, guys. We're past the halfway point. How to see the world like a designer, number six. We tend to try to simplify complexity. Whatever it is out there, we try to simplify that. Right. And again, this might be. Because that's a designer's role.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is, you know, ultimately, you know, what we're here for is to make the end user's life better, easier, simpler. Right. But we simplify complex solutions to help them become easier to understand for people. Okay. Easier to engage with, you know, easier to, you know, translate the message, that complex message that that company or their technology is trying to deliver.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Humans naturally avoid complexity.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. They, they create, shut down.

[B]

If it's exact too hard, forget it.

[A]

Exactly. And because what a designer does is, you know, we're constantly trying to make the end users life better. Okay. When we're able to simplify that and, and make it easier for them to understand whether it's an Infograph. I mean, infographics are beautiful for this. Okay. Brilliant invention. When, you know, whoever came up with these things because they take these complex ideas and simplify them, you know, in an easy to follow pattern. Right. And I mean, again, this. The reason why this is a. A mind hack for, you know, designers, future designers, existing ones, is because this rewires our brain to see problems as puzzles. Okay. And try to organize and solve rather than just be, you know, overwhelming with, you know, images and. And be a barrier and make people shut away from this. Right. Like this does it. It starts training our problem solving intuition. Okay. That. That whole. This is what we're meant to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, so practical hacks for this. Okay. Redesign a crowded or confusing interface into something a little bit more intuitive. Okay. How many times have you seen a shitty website or an app, you know, and you're frustrated as. Or even just trying to pay for gas. And it's like, you get to the pump, you stick in your card, and then. And then it's like, oh, it's not working. Go inside to prepay for this first.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So then you take your card out after it authorizes and approves it. Go inside, you pay, you do the same process with the guy. Then you go back out and you're trying to select your gas, and it doesn't let you. And so you have to hit the speaker. The speaker sounds like this, and you're just like. So you end up going back in and like, this drives you nuts.

[B]

Right? And what used to happen with that? It used to be a dude pump.

[A]

Gas wasn't that great, or sometimes a girl, but they were sitting there. Yeah.

[B]

That was a simple. That was the very basic, simple operation. Now, dude, everything is so complicated. Yeah, you're right. It's just these kind of things are so frustrating.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And you encounter them more than you should.

[A]

You know what I find? I find that, you know, and again, another thing is, you know, we always talk about, you know, removing the complexity from ads and stuff like that. Right. So, you know, I find that, you know, people, this whole fear of leaving something out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They. They're like, hey, you know what?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

90% of the time, people are coming to our app to do this one thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that other 10% of the time is made up of these five other things, and we need all that as well. And it's just like, dude, you don't.

[B]

Yeah. You can't hit everybody all at once.

[A]

Keep the majority happy. Okay. With what it is that you're working On. And for those. Those few outliers, it's okay if they have a second or a third step through or a click or. Or another problem.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ultimately, you know what? I. I think, you know, designers get excited when this problem's to solve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you start doing this and you start simplifying things, you know, you'll find that you'll do it in your house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'll do it, you know, from where your. Your. Your cutlery sits in your house to, you know, like where you leave your remote on a regular basis. Right.

[B]

Because again.

[A]

Right. You try to simplify this.

[B]

Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

That's so odd. One, one. All right. How to see the world like a designer. Number seven.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. We empathize deeply.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. You know, to design something, you need to understand that end user.

[B]

Y.

[A]

That's what design is. Right. Doing something with intent to make the end user's life better.

[B]

Better.

[A]

Okay. As a graphic designer, we sometimes focus on the visual aspect of that. Right. If you're an industrial designer or a product designer, you might focus on, you know, the. The hard, tangible goods about. But needless to say, this is what a designer does, and we can't do this effectively if we don't empathize.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If we can't connect with somebody, if somebody is cold and it's emotionless and they can't connect with people on. On a. On a. On an emotional level. Wrong space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wrong space.

[B]

Totally wrong space.

[A]

Yeah. You might as well just be an artist in that case, because, you know, you're never going to. But it's true. Developer or a developer, oftentimes they don't think of the end user.

[B]

Remember our. Our buddy Jamie? God bless his soul, he was kind of like that. Right. He was just like, hey, I can figure it out. Why the. Can't anybody else? And I admire that. I respect that. But it's like, no, dude, it's.

[A]

We gotta make. This is for them. Who cares about them? I don't care. They can log in after clicking these five buttons, scroll to the bottom, and there's the login. Like, who can't do that? He was a fun one for that.

[B]

But I remember the arguments we had. Exactly. It was hilarious. I loved the man, but he was totally the opposite of an empath.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I think it's a different way of working.

[A]

Exactly. Right.

[B]

If you're not empathetic in this space, that you're not going to do well.

[A]

I think the mind hack here. Here. Okay. Isn't about what do I want to create or what do I have to create, but what does the end user need?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And that's the difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You're not. You're not thinking of yourself.

[B]

It's not you. Yeah.

[A]

It's not about you. It's not about getting it out. It's about what does the end user need? And that's the big thing. This. This totally transforms your way of thinking, you know, as a designer. Because, again, it's always about the end user. Always.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never. Sometimes never most. It's always about the end user. Right.

[B]

Again, it's not fiverr.

[A]

It's true. Right? It's so true.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So practical hack here for people. Okay. Observe how people interact with design in real life. Okay. Like the gas station.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Man, was I frustrated. And I wasn't the only frustrating one there. Okay.

[B]

It probably happened a lot.

[A]

I did. It did. Right, so take a look at what frustrates people. Whether it's. It's, you know, patterns on how they enter and exit a place, whether it's, you know, intake at the hospital. Right. Whether it's how shit's designed. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, just, you know, see how people interact with design in real life. Okay. So this is just an observation thing. Okay. And imagine yourself in the end user's position.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And that's another thing we need to do. Right. What would I do here? What would I need to do? What would I have to do? What do I want to do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. That goes for reading an ad. That goes for interacting with an app that. That goes to do with a trade show booth or messaging of a company. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Put yourself in the end user's, you know, position and ask yourself that. Okay. So again, empathize deeply.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

All right. See the world like a designer. Number eight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Stay curious and keep learning. Yeah, man. Curiosity, I think, is what's gotten me to this point.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Okay. Like, from when I was a kid, teenager, you know, young adult, you know, now, you know, whatever you want to call me now. Mature, experienced, hunk of a man. Yeah. Staying curious, you know, if you're able to stay curious in this space, okay. It allows you to adapt to new trends.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To new technology, to new ways of thinking. This is important. Important because it stops you from being stagnant, right? Yeah, absolutely. Doing this helps. It drives growth to help you, you know, come. You know, tackle bigger, more complex challenges that come in the future. And I think that's Key. And people don't realize.

[B]

No, it's.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're not constantly willing to learn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Well, how are you going to be able to take on bigger, more complex tasks that come your way? Right. You're limiting yourself. And this is something that we talk about all the time.

[B]

Oh, yeah, big time. Yeah. This is true. Like, you, you can't like, with the way technology just, just, just the technology aspect of, of what the space we're in is, is enough to, you know, make you. Your head spin kind of thing, right?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

If you look at the programs that we use 10 years ago and what we're using now, they're completely different. The same kind of ideas, the principles, but there's a lot of stuff. So much that has kind of hockey sticked up in the.

[A]

And if you're not willing to continuously, you know, willing to learn and be curious for your own sakes. Right. You know, what happens is, is, you know, you, you become complacent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. By doing this, it replaces complacency with this open, exploratory mindset. Right, right. That you can embrace to take on any challenge. And we go through this all the time. Right. Like a customer will give us a problem that I will have zero knowledge on on Friday, but come Monday, you'll be the pro. I'm a weekend expert and I will learn. Learn. Because I'm curious. Yeah, I am genuinely curious. And I will learn everything about the company. The technique, the problem, how people have solved it, how competitors have solved it. And I mean, again, that's, you know, this, this is what I use to fuel my creativity and by inspiration. Okay. Because again, and, you know, I don't think that that's just a me thing.

[B]

No.

[A]

I think it kind of, you know, everybody who I know back there, you know, genuinely likes to solve problems. Different levels, different levels. But they're always curious on how to do this.

[B]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah. This is true. These are. This is the space for problem solving, for sure.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And if you're not even the least bit curious about solving problems, then I don't know whether this is exactly.

[A]

And that's exactly it.

[B]

Yeah, it is fun. It is fun. It's challenging, but there is something to it. Like that's, it's not just, you know, the design aspect.

[A]

It's not. It's totally not. Right. I think the practical hacks here that, you know, I could recommend is. Is like it or not, you know, dedicate an hour a week, maybe two if you have to. Right. And just learn something. Whether it's an app, whether it's a new industry, whether you read an article and you're like, I'm doing this on a daily basis. No, no, no. Daily, Daily. If I read an article. Okay. So as you know, I. I mean, I've got E. Newsletters that come to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. You know, I watch the News. I watch YouTube. I'm constantly just taking in. I don't even know how the hell I can manage to do all this. Helps my adhd.

[B]

Are you working?

[A]

Yeah, no, I'm just. I'm just curious all day long, but if there's. If I'm reading something that caught my eye and I'm like, well, what is that? I'll go down that rabbit hole. I'll learn about it. Because I'm just genuinely curious. But maybe not everybody's wired the way I am yet. Yeah. Because I've had, like, 30 years to be this way or to become this way. But dedicate some time to learning something new. Yeah. Technique, you know, a new industry, a new term, you know, a new. An entirely new, you know, currency. I don't know. Right. Ridiculous. Right. Learn something new. Right. And. And I mean, again, I do this by subscribing to industry blogs, newsletters. You know, I am. You know, I've got always news feeds on a regular basis, just kind of being forwarded to me. You don't have to go that crazy. You can just start with just a couple newsletters.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You can start with an RSS feed to a popular site that just kind of dumps everything on you. You know, I subscribe to Feedspot Feed Spot. Feed Spot. You go in there, you click on interest that you have, and every day it just sends you what. What's new on the Internet based on your interests.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And, dude, it just takes me to all these new places. Yeah.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Totally interesting. Right?

[B]

Okay, that's. Yeah. You're take. You're taking curiosity to a. A whole new level.

[A]

Whole new level, buddy. I'm taking it. It's for you.

[B]

I'm just. I'm looking at, like, James Bernard's doing it. I'm like, oh, that looks like fud.

[A]

He keeps it real. He keeps it real.

[B]

He's awesome. Yeah.

[A]

All right. How to see the world Like a designer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Number nine, Deconstruct how things work. O. Okay. Again, I don't know if everybody. Okay. When I was a kid, I used to smash everything. I used to break things. I. I was always curious how things work. I broke them I took them apart. Yeah, right. Sometimes I couldn't put them back together. Parents would get pretty pissed off. They would find pieces to things in all corners of the house and they're like happened here. That's. It's true though.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

I, I love to deconstruct how things work. So, you know, designers are natural problem solvers. Okay. This is, this is what we do in deconstructing how things work. Work. Help us uncover how things work. Uncover problems. Okay. And again, yeah, granted, I deconstructed, you know, certain physical objects.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the older I got, the more I tried to deconstruct businesses. I deconstructed things like email processes, chain, you know, like all this work related material. Right. And it just keeps growing. Then you start deconstructing ads, you start deconstructing logos process. And it's just, it just desk builds.

[B]

That is an interesting way to look at D. So deconstructing an ad.

[A]

Yes, so.

[B]

So you're like the messaging you were talking about before, the five points back it out.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

All those points kind of work.

[A]

Right. And that, and that works good on so many levels here. Seeing the higher picture, working in systems. But yeah, like deconstructing things, you know, it helps you understand the mechanics, the motivations, the systems behind what exactly it is that you're looking at.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, it could even be how a fast food chain works. That, that, that, you know, like just cranks out, you know, a million people every year. People could deconstruct our process here. How the hell we can crank out 4,000 projects a year for, you know, two customers? Right. Pretty crazy. Right? But again, there is a process here and you could, you could deconstruct that. Right. This again, why this is a mind hack. Okay. Is because this rewires your thinking to see opportunities in complex complexities.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Again, to see if there's ways to simplify something. Because you can do, you could be like, do we really need this? Does it really need that? Right. And you start, you know, automatically just trying to reprogram how this could be. But you can't do that until you take it all apart.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So again, it forces, it forces you to look beyond the. Just the surface.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So this explains why Jazz versus AC dc. Most people listen to AC dc.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because it's simple.

[A]

Well, you're right.

[B]

Right. And it's a little more relatable or. Yeah.

[A]

You know what it's like, I appreciate jazz to a whole.

[B]

Jazz is awesome. It's Jazz is great.

[A]

It's, well, it's fantastic because what gets your.

[B]

What hits you right in the. Right.

[A]

All right, fine. You know what? You're right back in black, which is what we're drinking today, for the record.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Around. You know, again, you're right. That's. That it's simple, it's easy to understand. Right. But there's something about jazz, you have to admit that when you start being able to pull out the tones in it, you know, you start like, wow, constructing. I understood, you know, I never understood when you used to say, you know, jazz drummers are an entirely different breed and they're all talent. I was like, what? Like a rock drummer is awesome. But I realized the rock drummers are just, they're great. They're eccentric.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're wild. Flash.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, man, what's involved in being a.

[B]

Jazz drummer is very complex.

[A]

Wouldn't know that unless you started taking apart all the.

[B]

What's going on.

[A]

Exactly. This is true, right? So it really does makes you appreciate that at a whole other level.

[B]

Wow, that's heavy. Holy.

[A]

I know, it's a little heavy, right? And maybe that's a little too heavy for this topic. But the idea is, you know, designers generally, you know, like to be able to deconstruct things, right. You know, and they just try to figure out how things work, work, or, or why they do the way they do everything from something ridiculous like a ski lift and, and how lines are in one place are able to be efficient, where in another place, lines line ups like crazy and not so much. Right. You know, so again, practical hacks here, reverse engineer designs you a meer. Okay. You know, dissect its structure, the identity, why each element works, you know, as opposed to looking at it as a whole, you know, look at the different pieces and what they add to it. Okay. And then observe, you know, on a different note, how everyday objects operate. Okay. And how they can be improved. Okay. That's huge. I think, I think that's a big thing about this.

[B]

Gas pumps.

[A]

Gas pumps. Damn. Gas pump process. So. Yeah.

[B]

Interesting. What about construction? What about building things?

[A]

Well, I think, like, say, did you.

[B]

Play with legos when you were a kid?

[A]

I, or as a grown up?

[B]

Up.

[A]

Both. Guilty and, you know, oddly adult. Lego is very expensive and it's, it's incredible. But it's a thing, like, people thing, right? It is a thing because you're right, I, I, I obsessed with it as a child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I, you know, still play with it as an adult, you know, My kids, not as much. I don't understand why that my kids, I kind of dropped the ball there on them somehow. I know they, they, they would get into it and then they would get out of it. You know, my creative daughter, she's got the whole Harry Potter thing. Right?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But she built it and then she, she didn't touch it afterwards. Cuz it was done where when we.

[B]

Were kids, we rip it apart.

[A]

Well, well. Yeah. Cuz remember the back of the LEGO package? The front showed what, what you were.

[B]

Getting, you're supposed to get. Yeah.

[A]

The back showed different things. You can build within it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Dude, I love that they stopped that. They, they took that away. I don't know why they.

[B]

Yeah, see that, that to me encourages it like a creative kind of.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Look, thinking outside of the box kind of.

[A]

Well, because that allows you to deconstruct that initial one, the first one, and then reconstruct the rest. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And in doing so, you could probably find a different version that you, you just kind of discover your. On your own.

[A]

How often, you know, you build that first one, how often after you rip it apart and you rebuild it, is the second, third, fourth option better? Because again, you've deconstructed what you initially thought the client wanted.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then you were able to recreate what you want to build and why you want to build it. You took out the elements, you made it better, stronger, more, all the times. And I think more times than not, when we do that, customers will take.

[B]

Our version, we'll take your version.

[A]

We always show them theirs.

[B]

Yeah. This is what you request, this is what you're after.

[A]

And this is good.

[B]

Here is the new and improved version.

[A]

And this is why. And we explain it. And it's true. Right? So you're right. Deconstructing and recon and constructing, reconstructing huge part of, I think, what designers are. So maybe that's like a 9B.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Construct. Yeah, construct. So the practical hacks. Go buy some Lego practical hacks.

[B]

It's fun.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And see the world. How to see the world. Like a designer number 10.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Love finding the real problem more than just the solution for the problem. Oh, okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I can't speak for anybody else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But finding, you know, the actual problem that customers, you know, when they have a problem, they come to us and they think they know the problem. And when you actually find the problem, it is two entirely different rushes altogether.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It takes you to a whole new fucking level. Right. And honestly. Right. Designers love Finding or solving problems. Right. Because again, it prevents wasted time. It helps you take it to a new level. Because our goal is to help the end user's life better.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Okay. But so many people stop at the surface level. Okay. And I think that's the problem. That's the, the biggest difference between, you know, designers and order takers, artists. Right. Is that what you want, sir? No problem. I'll give you that. Right. It's horrible. You need to dig deep when somebody comes to you with something. Right. Because that's what sparks the creativity. Okay. That's what, that's what gets your heart racing. Right. Because again, this, this helps you become more innovative. It helps you open up more ideas. Right. But so many people stop at the ask.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just assume that the ask is the only request. Is the only request. Right. So again, when you start thinking, you know, you want to solve the problem, you want to find the real problem. Okay. It changes your focus. Focus from rushing to give the customer what they want to uncovering the real issues that they need.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's the big difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this what they want from what they need.

[B]

What they need, exactly. Because they're going to get your deliverable and they're not going to have the same results or they're not going to get the results that they wanted anyway.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because whatever it is, is not, not, is not addressed the main problem. So you're not going to look good in their eyes. Even though it's not your fault. You were just doing, you're just following orders.

[A]

Exactly. This, this, this goes with that whole example of a customer saying they need a new website.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then when you're in there, it's like, the website's not the problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was this exercise I, I, I remember doing and I went through it. I can't remember why I went through it, but it was like, you know, the customer, you know, is on an island. Okay. And they came to you who you're on the surface, and they're like, I need you to build me a bridge. And you're like, oh, okay, no problem, I'll build the bridge. They're like, yeah, but the problem is, you know, there's, there's water between us and the land, there's rocks, there's sharks in there. And you're like, okay, well, no problem. It might be tricky to build, but we'll, we'll build that bridge and we'll worry about the rocks and the waves and the sharks. No problem. And you build the Bridge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Boom. Problem solved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're an order taker, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then if you dig deeper and you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why do you want to connect the two? Like, why? Why is it so important?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're like, well, on a daily basis, you know, I have to send a message to the mainland and I'm on an island, right? And this is a problem that we have. So, you know, what we, you know, thinking is we would get someone in a car to drive that message. All of a sudden it's just like.

[B]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a tick.

[A]

Do we fucking need a bridge?

[B]

Yeah, you don't need a pigeon, you.

[A]

Know, you know, a slingshot, a bottle, a catapult. All of a sudden it changes because the problem isn't what they said the problem was. The water, the sharks, the rocks, you know, the problem to build the bridge. But when you realize it, that's not the problem. The problem is they just need to get this communication going, and that's the real problem you're trying to solve.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I know kind of a weird analogy, you know, when it comes. But you get, you get the idea you need to dig totally. And imagine finding out that's the real problem.

[B]

And this is the thing. And like a lot of times with clients is they're siloed, you know, they think, they think that this bridge is going to be their answer.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

Not necessarily. You have a third party, somebody who's experienced with this kind of stuff, exactly come in and say, no, no, no, no, no. You don't need a bridge.

[A]

You don't need a bridge. Right, Exactly. Right.

[B]

Save you money too.

[A]

You know, you need to start, you know, the, the practical hack here, here, you know, if we're going to give one right. Is you need to ask, you know, is, is this the real problem or is this just a symptom of something bigger?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That, you know, you don't realize or we don't understand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And that's the key here in a situation, and that's our job. So when you can uncover that problem, dude, you just feel like at that point you want to hand over the project to somebody else and be like, I'm done, I'm out. I'm out.

[B]

I did what I was supposed to do. My Dr.

[A]

Seriously. So that's great. So these, these, I think, are 10 legitimate ways on how designers see the world differently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think whether, you know, it's, it's. It's someone like my daughter who's coming through the ranks and wants to understand the differences between, you know, what makes a graphic designer. Graphic designer, versus just an artist. You know, or whether, you know, you're just out of school and you're trying to figure this out or whether if you have anything that had. From experience, I think we can all realize that these are things that. That designers do instinctively.

[B]

Yes. Y.

[A]

All right. And. And to discuss and to. To bring these front. You know, this is the kind of stuff that. That we need to pay attention to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Recognize and keep working on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we don't get stagnant.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So we don't, you know, all of a sudden become a little too comfortable in our ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I can appreciate this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because this is literally who I've become. I can't speak for you. You. Yeah, no, I can't speak for all of you, but this is definitely who I've become. Okay. And this is definitely. When my daughter asked me weird questions like, why do you care.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About that business? Why. You know, why are you complaining that the light. You know, the. The width of the lane is too narrow? And all of a sudden, we're backed up and I'm solving problems 24 7, baby. It's what I do. But. But as a designer, it is what I do, and that's just how I view the world.

[B]

And it's. And it's amazing, too, how much design is in the world.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And you're discovering this kind of stuff. Right. And there's a lot of people who aren't designers who are designing things. I'm thinking. Yeah. So. But anyway, this is true. This is absolutely incredible. Like, it's very eye opening, and just some things that you just. You just do, but you're not really aware of. Aware of as a designer.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, good.

[B]

Call us old ones.

[A]

Speak for yourself. I'm just in a more experienced part of my. My career right now, and he's only.

[B]

32, so that's good.

[A]

That's right. A hunky 32. Just in the wrong places. That's all. In the wrong places.

[B]

Did you say chunky or hunky?

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, here I'm talking.

[A]

All right, everybody, I hope you guys got some. Something really cool out of this. I. Obviously, you know, if I miss something. If we miss something, please tell us. Drop us a line, hit us up on our Instagram, on our website and our message. I love to have these conversations with people. I. You know, we. We view the world differently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's nothing hiding that And I think this was fun to kind of explore and kind of be like, you know, let's. Let's dig deep, see what makes us dick.

[B]

Yes. Yes. And hopefully Amelia gets some answers out of this.

[A]

I hope so, too. Honestly, I hope. Either that or she's going to roll her eyes and be like, yeah, I'm gonna go to be an artist. That's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Screw being a designer. It's too complicated.

[B]

It's too complicated.

[A]

All right, everybody, My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry. I feel like I'm losing my mind? Everybody in the world die? Please, Lord, give me a sign? I want to be the greatest? Everybody on the face? I look around, I feel like everybody is the faker? I make this every day and I'm impatient? Hoping one day I blow up from the basement?

[B]

Statement?

[A]

The top is so baking I don't hear that I think is amazing? Waiting for my day when I'm playing sold out shows where a thousand faces? Hey, give me that crown? Get in my way, you know, be put down it ain't your place? I'll dis my town? If I want that then I'll get it right now? Now I'm losing it? The noose, it fits the looser, the stupid myth? You choose to live or choose to dip? You choose to fight or lose your grip and lose a gift? Oh, I feel like I'm losing my mind? Everybody in the world d Please, lord, give me a sign?

[B]

A sign.