Jason Craig on Why Designers Need to Stop Complaining and Start Creating

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer – "Jason Craig on Why Designers Need to Stop Complaining and Start Creating"

Date: October 16, 2025
Guests: Jason Craig (Designer), Massimo (Host), Sean (Co-host)

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Overview

In this vibrant, no-bullshit episode, graphic designer Jason Craig joins Massimo and Sean to blast through industry frustrations and share hard-hitting wisdom about what it really takes to thrive as a modern creative. The crew delves into creative longevity, designer mindsets, the perils of hustle culture, and why today's designers need to ditch the complaints and double-down on making great work—even as the world (and the industry) keeps changing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jason Craig’s Journey: Baseball, Braves, & Breakout Projects

• [00:51] Jason recounts his work designing alternate identities for the Atlanta Braves’ minor league team, including the viral "Azaleas" jersey.
  • Quote: "Every now and then we do something that hits…luckily, it’s something that I like to do." – Jason [02:09]
• The unexpected success: His wife doubted the appeal of the new pink Azaleas hat, but it went viral and sold out rapidly, even landing on SportsCenter.

2. Becoming the Go-To Problem Solver

• [02:34] Massimo asks how one becomes the person that big clients call when frustrated.
  • Quote: "25 years of making $8.50 an hour, making $32,000 a year, and just showing up, I guess…you gotta be consistent. You gotta prove yourself." – Jason [03:00]
• Importance of showing up, being consistent, and reliably delivering, even when most projects aren’t glamorous or immediately recognized.

3. Long-Term Vision & Delayed Gratification

• [03:32] Jason shares that some of his current design work won’t be released until 2028.
• Even with visible success, payments often come and go quickly—continuing to seek new work never stops:
  • Quote: "That money has been spent. I need more work now." – Jason [03:54]

4. How Opportunities Really Happen: Relationships & Timing

• [06:07] Getting his start with the Braves through an "Art in the Park" show, and noticing the creative director hung his poster in his kid’s room—he reached out and built the relationship.
  • Quote: "I just reached out...and they hired me the next year to do a poster. And then Covid happened—and they put me in a commercial. So I was on national TV and a Braves commercial." – Jason [06:41]
• Key point: Make yourself available and don’t fill your plate with low-paying, energy-draining gigs—you need space for opportunities.
  • Quote: "The options are not nothing or $500. It’s $500 or anything...You could do anything other than $500." – Jason [07:47]

5. Social Media & the Myth of Hustle

• [09:35] Jason and the hosts riff on the disconnect between online posturing and the real, sometimes quiet grind of building a business.
  • Hustle is not always success: "You can run really fast in a circle." – Jason [09:41]
  • Social media can be misleading: "Anytime I see anybody do anything, it’s like, who are you trying to convince?" – Jason [10:01]
• Personal brand vs studio name: For Jason, working under his own name provides both tax benefits and authenticity.
  • Quote: "If I pay less taxes, I’ll be Jason." – Jason [13:02]

6. Communication & Relationships Trump Talent Alone

• [11:42] The small things—courtesy, communication, responding to emails—can make or break your reputation. One slip and a client may be gone forever.
  • Quote: "We live and die by that, because we are communicators…if you forget about that…you can lose a client forever." – Jason [11:29]
• Investing in real relationships pays in the long run as people move into positions of influence and remember good interactions.

7. Stop Complaining—Start Creating

• [15:38] Host asks what’s pissing Jason off in the design world.
  • He’s fed up with industry veterans constantly lamenting the "downfall" of design due to AI, TikTok, and influencers.
  • Quote: "Shut the fuck up, dude…You're driving a $90,000 Volkswagen and twenty years ago we all made minimum wage." – Jason [16:10]
• Perspective: The tools and opportunities available now are far beyond the "gatekeeper" era of design.

8. Remote Work, Learning, and the Loss of Osmosis

• [17:54] Jason claims that remote work is the worst thing to happen to young designers, as it kills the learning that comes from physical proximity.
  • Quote: "Through osmosis, we learned so much just sitting next to [other designers]." – Jason [18:19]
  • The "team bullpen" culture is essential, especially early in careers—the industry loses when new designers are isolated at home.

9. The Joy (and Reality) of Creative Work

• [19:44] "We get paid to draw pictures. That’s the goal." – Jason
  • Recognize the privilege in doing creative work for a living rather than chasing a ‘hard grind’ narrative.
• If you’re not happy, reflect on what you want to do, and carve your path toward that. Don’t envy the past—adapt for the present.

10. Keep Making Stuff, For Yourself Too

• The group laments that as you get busier and experienced, you sometimes stop making things for sheer enjoyment.
  • Encourage younger (and older) designers to balance passion projects with paid work:
  • Quote: "I see people that are just making stuff, and I don't remember the last time I just made something." – Jason [20:53]

11. Authenticity, Creative Freedom, and Laughing at the Rules

• Designers have the freedom to create and present themselves how they want:
  • “I haven’t worn a suit for, like, 15 years…even to weddings and funerals.” – Massimo [23:53]
• There’s contentment in living as a creative—both financially and in terms of self-expression.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There’s 10 of me…that’s gonna be my new attitude." – Jason [13:33]
• "Remote work is the worst thing that could happen to designers." – Jason [17:54]
• "I’m excited about the next generation of folks that love what they’re doing.” – Jason [20:05]
• "What if…I draw you a picture?" – Jason [23:03]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:51 – Jason describes the breakthrough with the Braves’ Azaleas merch
• 02:34 – How to become the go-to creative problem solver for big clients
• 06:07 – Origin story with the Braves’ creative director and impact of personal outreach
• 07:47 – The danger of crowding out opportunity with small gigs
• 11:29 – Losing clients (and opportunities) by failing at communication
• 15:38 – The rant against industry complaining and why designers are better off now
• 17:54 – Deep dive: How remote work harms early-career designers
• 19:44 – "We get paid to draw pictures" and creative career gratitude
• 20:53 – The importance of making things for yourself, not just for clients
• 23:03 – The pure simplicity (and sometimes the absurdity) of creative problem solving

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Where to Find Jason

• Instagram: @jasonthe29th
  "I need about 600 more followers, so maybe this will do it!" – Jason [25:13]

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Tone & Style

Candid, irreverent, and affirming—the conversation is filled with hard-earned truths, lighthearted swearing, a healthy dose of sarcasm, and real talk about the business and the joy of creative work. Through Jason’s stories and the hosts’ banter, the episode empowers designers to drop the whining—focus on real relationships, creative resilience, and building work you’re actually proud of.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast, where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry chaos, ditch the social BS and build badass, rewarding careers that actually pay now. Powered by WIX Studio.

[Massimo]

All right, please state your name for the camera.

[Jason Craig]

Jason Craig. C R, A, I G. Two first names, if you're counting.

[Massimo]

So I'm totally fucking blown away. What was that deal with Mike Jones? Because he. He. You gave him a hat. And I know Mike Jones collects.

[Jason Craig]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Massimo]

And he made you sign that shit. And I'm like, this. This is unreal. Because, I mean, that was beautiful.

[Jason Craig]

Right?

[Massimo]

Right? Yeah, it was just. And I mean, again, let's not even the technical side, because, I mean, again, there's so many layers of that stitch and stuff. What was the deal with that?

[Jason Craig]

So I work with. I work with the Atlanta Braves a little bit here and there, and their minor league team just happens to be in Augusta where I. And so we started working together doing alternate identities. And a couple years ago, they approached me and we did one, then we did the next one, which was Azaleas. Yes. And it just came out, like, last week. Well, when you saw it, Mike had pre ordered the hat. So that was like the first time I'd seen the hat or anything. Like, he was one of the first people to get one. And then the following Saturday, it was on SportsCenter. And so.

[Sean]

Oh, no way.

[Massimo]

The hat.

[Jason Craig]

The hat and the jerseys. Yeah, they're on SportsCenter. And the people, they were wearing them and they did like a feature on it. Yeah. And. Yeah. So it was like one of those things where I've been sitting on it a couple years. And I told my wife, I keep telling this story, I told my wife that I was like, when this comes out, it's gonna pop off, you know, and she's like a pink hat. She's like, I don't know.

[Massimo]

I know. And again, Mike is like.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Jason Craig]

Wearing a pink hat with a flower on it.

[Sean]

He rocked that.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, he was proud. Yeah, he loved it. And that's the thing is that so. So they actually sold out all that merch. They bought it again. They sold all that out.

[Sean]

Holy.

[Jason Craig]

And so it's, you know, every now and then we do something that hits. We do plenty that we get paid for. And they sit there and it's fine. But every now and then you get something that's got some legs to it. And. And luckily, it's something that I like to do. Like this. It was a design that I think is fitting of Me. And so if I get asked to do it again, I'll be. I'd be happy to.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

How do you get into a company like that? I mean, a sports team?

[Jason Craig]

Everybody's. Honestly, it's. It's one of those things where it's like they get so frustrated that they just call the person that can get the job done. Oh, okay. And being that person, you know, it's like when you got a company of 500 people, there's. There's two or three that you actually call to solve problems.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. And I think being that person makes a big difference. Yeah. And so. Yeah.

[Massimo]

So then what does it take to be that person? Especially for that kind of organization?

[Jason Craig]

25 years of making 850 an hour, making $32,000 a year, and, And. And just showing up, I guess, which is tough to hear for some people because it's like they want to do everything right now. You get chances, but you gotta be consistent. You gotta. You gotta prove yourself. And when they call, you gotta. You gotta deliver. You gotta answer. You gotta deliver. And it's wild because I just designed stuff that's gonna come out in 2028.

[Massimo]

What?

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Geez.

[Jason Craig]

2028. Wow. And it's like. It's like, how do you. Like, will this stuff even be relevant?

[Massimo]

Yeah, well, that would be my. But you're still getting paid. You're not waiting till 2028 to get paid.

[Jason Craig]

No. No money spent. But that's the flip side to it. Like, you see a lot of. He's like, oh, he must be doing great. And I mean, I am, but I got that money has been spent.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

I need more work now.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jason Craig]

But as that, like, as that, like, machine is, like, churning. It was a couple years ago where it was like, I'm making stuff that doesn't come out for two years. And it's like, well, what are you doing now? I was like, I can't show you. And I always, like, used to. Used to jive on people. They're like, oh, I'd love to tell you what I'm. What I'm working on, but I can't. And it's like, I literally can't tell some folks what I'm working on. And I really want.

[Massimo]

And you want to sell that.

[Jason Craig]

But it's like, it's like, my thing is if I tell zero people. Yeah. And it comes out what it is. I know for a fact it was.

[Sean]

Not me that leaked it.

[Jason Craig]

And so it's like, some of the stuff I tell my Wife. I tell my kids and that's it. I don't text it to them. I just tell them. And it's cool because the thing is, we did this jersey and it blew up. I got a better one coming out in a couple months. Shit, I got a better one. And that's the stuff where it's like, God, just wait a minute, just wait a minute. Put me on twice and say my name this time.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

So you let it post this shit on your socials and stuff?

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, yeah, that stuff, that stuff. They're real cool with that. Some people that it's a no go on that, but with them, I just. I pretty much just wait for them to put it out and then I put it out and yeah, they're real cool with that. Sports teams are good like that.

[Massimo]

So is this actually a niche that you're pursuing or is this just. You kind of fell ass backwards into it?

[Jason Craig]

Well, I think that it's sort of like the. If you do the stuff you're interested in.

[Massimo]

Ye.

[Jason Craig]

And I love baseball. I mean, I like sports, but I love baseball. Oh, okay. And it's. It's a space that I. I just feel comfortable working in. And I think that whenever a baseball team approaches me and I say, well, let's put a flower on a hand, make it pink. I just don't think a lot of people go do that.

[Sean]

Yeah. I just gotta say, wow. Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Right.

[Massimo]

But it worked. But that's obvious.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And that's the thing. I mean, maybe because it was so over the top that they're just like, you guys gotta.

[Jason Craig]

We gotta talk about this.

[Massimo]

Right?

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

How. How the hell do. Okay, so, you know, getting into a sports. Not only in the sports industry, but then baseball, like, I mean, that's niche and niche, right? Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Right.

[Massimo]

And was this intentional? I get that you. You like the space, but how do you pursue that? Like, was it. Was it a reach out? Was it just a networking event?

[Jason Craig]

You know, I can tell you exactly how it started with the Braves did this Art in the park series where they. Oh, they asked a lot of artists to design posters for the. For the different series Airplane. And I was one of, like 30 different artists that did that.

[Massimo]

And.

[Jason Craig]

A lot of these things come and go. You just do something and that's that and that's fine. But I noticed that the creative director for the Braves had hung up my poster in his kid's room.

[Massimo]

Wow.

[Jason Craig]

And so I was like, all right, all right. This guy likes my work.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And so I just reached out And I was like, hey, I see you like this. And they hired me the next year to do a poster. And then Covid happened. Yeah. And. And they put me in a commercial. So I was on national tv and a Braves commercial.

[Sean]

No.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Because you're so charming.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

What it was. What it was is I think they were just so frustrated with what they had, and they're. And they're just, like, called me, and they come over here and do this, and I was like, yeah, I'll be there. Be there. And, you know, be there tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. And I think that making yourself available, like, not bogging yourself down with. With shit you don't want to do is. There's something to that. Because that same week, somebody called me, and they said, I need a logo by Friday. And I have $500. Yep. And I said, nah, you know, I'm not that guy. And my wife was like, you'd rather have nothing than $500? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I said, it's. The options are not nothing or $500. It's $500 or anything. It's $500. Or go to Las Vegas for the weekend. $500. Or go surfing. I don't surf. But you know what I mean? You could do anything other than it's not 500 or nothing. That is not your options.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And so I turned that down. And then that later that day, the Braves called, and they said, you want to be in this commercial? See, if I was doing that logo, I couldn't have done.

[Sean]

You wouldn't have been able to.

[Jason Craig]

That's right.

[Massimo]

People don't get that. We literally just had a whole episode about this a few weeks ago, and it was about the fact that people just bogged down their whole week. 100, 110. Like, they're. They're overextending themselves, and opportunities like this, they come, and they can't even do anything about it because they're filling in this. You know, that whole sand analogy, like, here's your rocks. Here's pebbles. Here's fine sand. Here's water, dude. Like, you know, we're always pushing 80. Work at 80. Give yourself 20 for opportunities for yourself to do whatever. But yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

How much that 500 opportunity, like, you know, how much you could have lost because.

[Jason Craig]

Exactly.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And you'd never know.

[Massimo]

Yes.

[Jason Craig]

You don't know. But, yeah, it's. It's true. And I think that. That we do. We. We have this. This thought that we always have to be busy, and we Always have to be grinding and hustling and all that. And I do hustle. I get after it. I mean, I saw somebody at the airport on the way here, and they're like, you're constantly traveling. When do you work? You're everywhere. I said, every time you see me. Yeah, that's when I'm working. I might not be sitting behind a computer, but I'm working. And it's just one of those things where I think that, like, I don't toil. I'm not in a coal mine chipping away. I'm making logos. And it's cool with the way social media works, how it gets peppered out at the pace we want it to. So I can always look as busy as I want to look, and I can look as not busy as I want to look. And I think that a lot of times, if you don't hear from me, if you don't see me doing something, that means I must be busy. You see me doing a lot of stuff. You're like, that dude's fucking on a beach so far, dude.

[Massimo]

That is so true. You know, hustle. Just because you see people hustling, hustle doesn't equal success.

[Jason Craig]

No, no.

[Massimo]

Because.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. You run really fast in a circle.

[Massimo]

Yeah. So true.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Holy shit. I know how much time this takes to, you know, to do this constant social.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And, you know, people get hung up on. Oh, they see this lifestyle. They see these people, you know, they're blinging it. They're. They're constantly online. Their whole life's there. These guys are probably broke as fuck. Well.

[Jason Craig]

And my thing I always think about, anytime I see anybody do anything, it's like, who are you trying to convince?

[Sean]

Yeah, right.

[Jason Craig]

You tell me how busy you are. Why do you give a. If I care if I think you're busy?

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Just. Just show me the work.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

It's almost like you want to look for the companies or the people that have the shitty websites.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

And shitty Instagram.

[Jason Craig]

Get the barber with the worst hair.

[Massimo]

We haven't updated our website for, like, 10 years. That's right. It is ridiculous. And I keep telling everybody, too busy. Don't even bother going there. You're not going to like what you see because there's nothing there. Yeah, but I don't got time for this. I. I'm kind of prioritizing my clients first, ourselves second.

[Jason Craig]

But yeah.

[Massimo]

You know, at the same time, all that other stuff.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

Geez. That's funny.

[Jason Craig]

No, it's. It's a, it's a, it's a constant thing. It's a lot of small touches. Yeah. And, and the thing that a lot of people don't realize too, is that you can, if you drop the ball just once, it can, you can lose a client forever. And it's never a, it's never a huge big deal. It's always like you didn't answer an email, you didn't answer the phone, you didn't, you know, you were too short with somebody because you're in a hurry. And it's like communication and all that stuff that's. We live and die by that because we are communicators. We communicate visually, but that's what we are at the end of the day. And if you forget about that and you, and you big time somebody or you don't say hi to somebody at one of these conferences. I try to spend time with every single person that knows my name.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. And those people, they, they, they grow up, they get jobs, they get budgets. They hire you.

[Sean]

Yeah. And they remember.

[Jason Craig]

They remember. They remember forever.

[Sean]

Exactly. And that guy was nice to me.

[Jason Craig]

That guy was nice to me. Yeah. Or that guy's got great work. He's an asshole. Yeah.

[Massimo]

Right.

[Jason Craig]

I hope he never makes a dollar. Yeah. And, and they'll, they won't give you a dollar. They won't buy your sticker. They won't do nothing.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Jason Craig]

And then you can't pay your rent. You got to go get, go down to Burger King, get a real job. And, and, but that's the thing. We're communicators and we got to be good at it all the time. And it's not taxing. I'm not an introvert. I don't have to go recharge. I just get after it and wake up and get after it again. And, you know, I don't have to tell everybody how I'm grinding. You just see me doing it. Yeah, that's good enough.

[Sean]

Exactly. So the work speaks for itself. We know you're working hard.

[Massimo]

Well, because you're everywhere and you're, you're with everybody. You know, every mind. You, you got this big brand. You know what I mean? It kind of, kind of really works. That personal brand is working to your advantage, obviously.

[Jason Craig]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, which, it's funny because the thing is, is as I, I thought about doing like a company name type thing, but I actually live in South Carolina. Right across. I tell her, but I'm from Augusta, but I'm right across the river in South Carolina.

[Massimo]

Oh, okay.

[Jason Craig]

And if I work under just my name, it's a completely different tax structure. And so as long as I'm just. Yeah, as long as I'm just Jason Craig, like, it's, it's a completely different thing for me. And so I was like, all right, that's cool. If I pay less taxes, I'll be Jason.

[Sean]

That's fine.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, exactly.

[Massimo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be Jason Greg, if I think they left.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, like, thanks. Thanks for giving me this title, Mom. I'll use it. And. But yeah, it's, it's works out. But it was. I was watching a movie on the plane and. And like this guy was like a tough guy, was sitting in his car and somebody else came up to him, like to start something, and he just looked at him, he goes, There's 10 of me. And I was like, fuck, yeah. Yeah. I was like, that's, that's, that's, that's gonna be my new attitude. There's 10 of me.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. There's 10, bro. There's 10 of me. And, and I love that.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And I mean, that's, it's just a good way. I was like, I just, I just felt like that right now. Yeah, there's 10 of me.

[Sean]

Yeah. You got such a grasp on it.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

And now a word from our sponsor.

[Podcast Host]

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[Massimo]

So what's pissing you off right now with. When it comes to the whole design scene?

[Jason Craig]

What am I so angry?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

All right. I'm actually tired of folks bitching about design. Yeah. I have so many friends that are successful that they're just like, this industry's on its way down. It's spiraling AI and design influencers and TikTok is killing us. And it's like, man, shut the fuck up, dude. You're driving a $90,000 Volkswagen and 20 years ago we all made minimum wage.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And now we have like unlimited black T shirts. Like, we're killing it. I was like, dude, I was like, get on chat GPT. Figure that shit out. And, and let's, and let's just keep it moving.

[Massimo]

Yeah. Right.

[Jason Craig]

No, I just, I know a lot of people that are really frustrated and I mean, they can't help that they're frustrated. But I, I think.

[Massimo]

Yeah, but do you think they're looking at the wrong parts here?

[Jason Craig]

Well, I, I just, I think they're forgetting where we came from. I think that there's. Good call. There's a lot of younger folks that this is all they know. They know what we're complaining about. That's their future. That's their path forward. But like, I started out when you had to go work for somebody else because you couldn't afford the programs. You couldn't afford to have your own computer. And so you had to get hired by some old dude that was probably younger than I am now. And that's who kind of was the gatekeeper of your whole career. So. True. And now we have everything at our disposal.

[Sean]

Mm.

[Jason Craig]

We have AI, we have the. We have every program, we have every input that we. I mean, we have everything. Yeah. And I think that it's weird to be like, oh, this is the end of. These are the end of times. I was like, this is the fucking beginning of times.

[Massimo]

Yeah, you're right.

[Jason Craig]

And, and I do feel bad for the, for, for the 22 year old version of me that spent a lot of time making clipping paths and, and sitting there, you know, doing redundant jobs that, that don't make sense anymore. And I think that there is gonna be a learning curve getting into this industry. Cause you're gonna be, you're gonna start, you have to start in the middle.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And so I think college is Gonna be more important because there's not. Oh. There's not gonna be as much on the job training like I learned on the job. That's not gonna happen. You can't learn on the job working remote. I think remote work is the worst thing to happen to designers.

[Massimo]

Now you're onto something.

[Jason Craig]

I never thought about that. I. Other people. I think it's the worst thing that can happen. I work by my designers. Okay.

[Sean]

So you can't. You think you can't be self sufficient. You can't learn on your own.

[Jason Craig]

You can learn on your own, but.

[Sean]

You can only learn.

[Jason Craig]

You can only learn what you seek out. Yeah. You can only learn what you have. Nobody's gonna walk up and hit you upside the head with information. Yeah. If you're by yourself.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And I think that. That through osmosis, we learned so much just sitting next to.

[Sean]

Just by being. And just being around. Dude.

[Massimo]

Totally.

[Jason Craig]

We.

[Massimo]

So again, we've got, you know, so our whole team is local.

[Jason Craig]

Y. Yeah.

[Massimo]

In a studio. Yeah. And when Covid hit, we all, obviously, for a few months, like everybody else in the freaking world, worked remotely. The worst thing that could have happened. It was. It was fun for a week or two. Right. But then, you know, the team wasn't there. We weren't jiving. We weren't energizing each other. Now we're back all in the studio. We've been back for years. And. And that's how we hire. We don't hire remote.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

All the designers are on staff.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

We'll hire a programmer who's remote or this or that, or maybe an independent contractor for something. But the design team is together in the bullpen.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And you're right. Like, remote work makes up this industry.

[Jason Craig]

And I mean, think about a. Think about a kid that's been designing less than five years.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Right. And you hire them to work from remote. And you say, okay, you're gonna work from home, man. Home to them might be a one bedroom apartment with two roommates.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

I mean that. And then you. And then you say, well, why aren't you good at what you do? Why don't you hit your deadlines? It's like, how would they even know? How would they even know what to do?

[Massimo]

Shit. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

I mean, you learn so much and then you got to unlearn and then you got to learn more.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

There's just so many of those steps that are. They're going to. And now we got shortcuts we got. Everybody thinks they're going to Be an influencer. And it's. It's out of whack.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. I mean, we get. We get paid to draw pictures.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

All right. That's the goal. Yeah. We get paid to draw pictures. Am I getting paid a day draw pictures? It's a good day.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Am I on my way out?

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Bad day? Yeah. I think we're on our way out.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. I think that. I think, like I said, I don't think it's the end of times. I think it's the beginning of times.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Jason Craig]

I'm. I will have a little Viking funeral for my career 20 years ago that will never exist again.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

But I knew back then, I was like, this isn't what I want to do my whole life. I don't want to. I don't want to be the guy that makes the fertilizer advertisement that's on the outfield wall at the baseball stadium. I want to be the guy that makes the jerseys the players are wearing a long time. And that's where I'm at. And so, yeah, that's the thing that makes me mad is the constant bitching from old dudes like me. But I'm excited. I'm excited about the next generation of folks that love what they're doing. I mean, we do it for money, and we love money. And when we have some success, we love the success. But I see people that are just making stuff, and I don't remember the last time I just made something.

[Sean]

I know, right?

[Jason Craig]

I know.

[Massimo]

You got to keep that little bit for yourself.

[Sean]

That's what's important about these kind of things, is you see people making stuff. You're like, shit, why am I not making stuff?

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. I mean, I've had even doodling. I've had 20 people walk up and hand me a sticker. Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And I'm like, they're awesome. Like, man, I invented handed people stickers. No, but it's.

[Sean]

It's.

[Jason Craig]

I think it's exciting. I think it's exciting. I. I think that I'm glad that they've let us play along this long, and I hope that we keep on getting to do it. I hope we can get our old asses up at. I mean, we were out till 2am and we got up at 7 to.

[Massimo]

I know, dude.

[Jason Craig]

I had to switch to the cold Bruce so I can get it me faster.

[Massimo]

Well, they are offering interven.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna. And we're gonna do it again tonight, so. Yeah. Jeez, dude.

[Massimo]

Yeah, dude, I'm Glad we did this, man.

[Jason Craig]

This is awesome. Yeah.

[Sean]

We've always chatted at these things and never really had you on.

[Massimo]

I thought you were just a bum.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

You know, and we got heckled by.

[Sean]

This guy walking on the other side of the street.

[Massimo]

So angry about.

[Jason Craig]

Y' all are just minding your own business, trying to have a good time, trying to enjoy a little vacay. You got me from a block away.

[Massimo]

Why are you so angry? What everybody doesn't see is us turn around and cry. What does he mean, y'?

[Jason Craig]

All? Y' all are. Y' all are the happy on the inside.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah. Y' all go home, put on, like, tie dyed shirts, like, get out of this hell.

[Sean]

No. All kinds of patchouli all the time.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, yeah. You put out. You put on Jimmy Buffett. I was like, these guys aren't angry at all. It's.

[Massimo]

You know what?

[Jason Craig]

It's.

[Massimo]

It's hard to get angry anymore. We bitched everything the first, like, 10, 20 episodes.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And after that, it's like you said.

[Sean]

We draw pictures all day.

[Massimo]

I know.

[Sean]

How can you be mad?

[Massimo]

A lot of things piss us off in the space. But, you know. And I mean, we'll say it. We're not scared to say it, but we draw pictures.

[Jason Craig]

We do. And, I mean, you sit in a client meeting, you got a project coming up, you're listening to all their stuff, and you already know at the end of their end, results can be like, I know. I'll draw you a picture. Oh, this is your problem. I got it.

[Massimo]

Oh.

[Jason Craig]

I'm thinking outside the box on this. Bear with me. What if. What if. What if I draw you a picture? And they're like, but what it'll look like? And I'm like, let me draw you a picture.

[Sean]

So what the picture will look like.

[Jason Craig]

I'll draw you a picture. I'm gonna draw you another picture. It's. It's all the stuff growing up in the Midwest that they said wasn't people didn't do.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

They're like, that's not a job.

[Sean]

It's not a job. Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

And it is pretty good for not having a job.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

Agreed.

[Jason Craig]

And exactly.

[Massimo]

Both financially and then personally, you know, personal fulfillment. And people. They don't get that you can make more money in other industries.

[Sean]

You can't.

[Massimo]

But you're not going to be happy. You know, I. I haven't worn a suit for, like, 15 years. And I'm talking, like, even, like, to weddings and funerals.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Massimo]

I'm that guy.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Show up in the jeans and the sneakers and. And it's just like, oh, it's okay. He's a creative.

[Jason Craig]

That's right. It's true. And. And like, we'll go to like an art show or something and somebody like, what do I wear? I'm like, you artist Anything.

[Sean]

Yeah, well, you wear anything you want, dude.

[Massimo]

I will show up to client meetings and I mean, we're talking from comp. Billion dollar brands and you show up in hat T shirt and they're cool with it. They're like, oh, yeah, here's our design team. You got to meet these guys. Yeah. People don't realize. That's why it's like, it's hard to be angry. I'm angry about a lot of things, about a lot of politics. Right. Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

You know what?

[Massimo]

It's. It's more often not. It's self induced.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah, it is. It is. You start to spiral and. And yeah, you get bored and start. I don't know. Yeah. Worrying about stuff. Flipping out about things.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Massimo]

It.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Jason Craig]

But, you know, whenever y' all become the 51st state, I'll.

[Massimo]

Not on your life.

[Jason Craig]

We'll get some more baseball teams up there.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's good. You'll get some more hockey teams down here. You got plenty.

[Jason Craig]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Craig]

That's amazing.

[Massimo]

All right, brother.

[Sean]

I really appreciate it.

[Jason Craig]

Thank you, guys.

[Massimo]

I hope you guys got everything out.

[Podcast Host]

Of this and then some.

[Massimo]

By all means. Where can they find your work?

[Jason Craig]

Oh, gosh, Jason. The 29th on Instagram. I need. I need about. I need about 600 more followers. So maybe this will do. It may also put me over the top.

[Massimo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. Okay. How many people we've got?

[Jason Craig]

Six.

[Massimo]

All you share. We're good.

[Sean]

Follow this guy.

[Massimo]

All right, everybody. My name is Massimo.

[Sean]

My name is Sean.

[Jason Craig]

And you are Jason Craig.

[Massimo]

Stay creative and stay angry. Peace.