Logo Design Rules Have Changed. The New Rules That Separate Professional Designers from Pretenders

Summary

Summary of "Logo Design Rules Have Changed. The New Rules That Separate Professional Designers from Pretenders"

Podcast: The Angry Designer - A Graphic Design, Brand, UX, Logo, Website Designer Podcast
Host/Author: A Graphic Design Podcast that cuts through the industry bull to help frustrated Designers charge what they're worth and build rewarding creative careers
Episode Title: Logo Design Rules Have Changed. The New Rules That Separate Professional Designers from Pretenders
Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Angry Designer, hosts Massimo (A) and Sean (B) delve deep into the transformative shifts in logo design over the past decade. They emphasize the necessity for graphic designers to adapt to the evolving digital landscape to remain relevant and professional. The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted exchange about Sean’s recent leg injury but swiftly transitions into the core topic: the new rules of logo design that distinguish seasoned designers from amateurs.

The Rapid Evolution of Logo Design

Massimo highlights the unprecedented changes in logo design, asserting that "Logos have transformed more dramatically in the past decade than in the past 50 years, maybe even 60. Digital changed everything." [00:16]. He contrasts the static, print-focused logos of the past with today’s dynamic, digital-first creations. The hosts reflect on how historical designers like Paul Rand and Saul Bass crafted enduring logos, yet the digital age demands constant adaptation and rapid evolution.

Rule One: Adaptability in the Digital-First World

Adaptive Logos have become essential as the primary medium shifts from print to digital platforms. Massimo explains, "Logos now, digital first... Print is not necessarily an afterthought, but it's only if required." [06:03]. The key points discussed include:

• Versatility Across Platforms: Logos must maintain clarity and recognition across various digital platforms, from smartphones and smartwatches to websites and social media.

• Size and Color Consistency: Designers must ensure logos remain legible and consistent in color regardless of the device or screen. For instance, the Disney logo simplifies to just the stylized "D" on smaller screens, maintaining brand recognition [11:01].

• Practical Tips:

  • Simplify Logos: Ensure logos can be scaled down to as small as 16x16 pixels without losing integrity [15:14].
  • Dark Mode Compatibility: Logos should be reversible and maintain visibility in dark mode settings [13:31].
  • Silhouette and Contrast Tests: Logos should be recognizable in black and white and have sufficient contrast for accessibility [27:37].

Massimo emphasizes the importance of these adaptations, stating, "If it's unclear that whose brand it is and whose logo it is, that means it's not adaptive enough." [07:35].

Rule Two: Animation is Now Essential

Animation has transitioned from being a mere trend to an essential component of modern logo design. Massimo asserts, "Animated logos just aren't a trend anymore; they bring brands to life." [09:44]. Key insights include:

• Enhanced Engagement: Animated logos capture attention more effectively in a crowded digital space. For example, Netflix and Discord utilize subtle animations to reinforce their brand identity [16:11], [17:57].

• Practical Implementation:

  • Duration: Animations should be concise, ideally three seconds to prevent viewer fatigue [20:35].
  • Subtle Movements: Gentle fades and shifts enhance the logo without being distracting [20:42].

• Tools and Accessibility: With tools like Adobe Express and platforms like Lottie making animation accessible, even those without motion design expertise can incorporate animated elements [19:16].

Sean shares an anecdote where pitching to a company without an animated logo resulted in immediate engagement once an animated version was presented, underscoring its impact [15:37].

Rule Three: AI-Ready Logos

As artificial intelligence becomes increasingly integrated into design and branding, logos must be AI-ready to ensure proper recognition and usage across AI-driven platforms. Massimo outlines the necessity for AI-compatible logos:

• Protection from Misuse: By designing AI-ready logos, designers can safeguard brand integrity against incorrect reproductions by AI systems [22:27].

• Technical Specifications:

  • SVG File Format: Massimo explains the importance of using SVGs for their scalability and clarity, stating, "SVG files are like digital vectors... they maintain their quality at any size." [28:49].

  • LLMs Text File: Introducing the concept of a LLMs text file, a blueprint that details brand colors, fonts, and other specifics to help AI accurately represent the brand [30:26]. This file ensures that AI platforms like Perplexity and Google Lens correctly interpret and display the logo [25:04].

• Design Readiness Tests:

  • Silhouette Test: Ensures logos are recognizable in simple black and white forms [27:37].
  • Prompt Test: Assesses whether a logo can be easily described and understood by AI systems [27:37].

Massimo emphasizes the urgency for designers to adopt these practices, predicting that within the next 12 to 18 months, AI-ready logos will be a standard requirement [33:14].

Technical Considerations

The hosts delve into the technical aspects of implementing the new logo design rules:

• File Formats: Transitioning from raster-based PNGs and JPEGs to vector-based SVGs ensures logos remain crisp and scalable across digital platforms [28:31].

• LLMs Text Files: These files act as a guide for AI systems to understand and replicate brand elements accurately, enhancing brand consistency across AI-driven environments [30:26].

Practical Tips for Designers

Massimo and Sean provide actionable advice for designers to navigate the new landscape:

1. Simplify Designs: Ensure logos are easily recognizable at any size.
2. Ensure Dark Mode Compatibility: Design logos that look good against dark backgrounds without merely inverting colors.
3. Incorporate Subtle Animations: Use short, gentle animations to enhance brand identity without overwhelming the viewer.
4. Conduct Multiple Tests: Perform silhouette, thumbnail, prompt, and contrast tests to ensure logos maintain integrity across various scenarios.

Massimo advises, "Don't go overboard. If it doesn't reinforce the brand or the user experience, cut it." [21:22].

Examples of Adaptive and Animated Logos

The hosts reference several brands that successfully implement adaptive and animated logos:

• Disney: Transitions from the detailed full logo to the simplified "D" as sizes decrease [11:39].
• Netflix and Discord: Utilize animated logos to reinforce brand identity during app launches and interactions [17:56], [18:13].
• Kia: Demonstrated the power of animated logos by debuting their new logo through a drone show, achieving instant recognition [08:31].

The Future of Logo Design

Massimo and Sean discuss the trajectory of logo design, emphasizing that the industry is entering a "whole new level" driven by digital advancements and AI integration [34:51]. They predict that logos will continue to evolve, becoming more interactive and embedded within various technological platforms. The necessity for comprehensive logo packages that include adaptive, animated, and AI-ready versions will drive higher valuation and pricing for professional designers [33:14].

Sean reflects on the nostalgic days of print-focused design, highlighting the drastic shift to a digital-centric approach and the implications for modern designers [35:36].

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a strong call to action for designers to embrace the new rules of logo design. Massimo urges, "Keep adapting, guys. Keep adapting." [15:16], stressing that staying ahead in the industry requires continuous learning and implementation of these innovative practices. The hosts encourage designers to upgrade their logo execution packages to incorporate adaptability, animation, and AI readiness to build rewarding and future-proof careers.

Massimo wraps up the discussion by reinforcing the importance of preparing for the future of logo design, urging listeners not to resist change but to evolve with it [35:35].

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Notable Quotes:

• Massimo (A):

  • "Logos have transformed more dramatically in the past decade than in the past 50 years, maybe even 60." [00:16]
  • "If it's unclear that whose brand it is and whose logo it is, that means it's not adaptive enough." [07:35]
  • "Animated logos just aren't a trend anymore; they bring brands to life." [09:44]
  • "Logos now, digital first... Print is not necessarily an afterthought, but it's only if required." [06:03]
  • "Keep adapting, guys. Keep adapting." [15:16]

• Sean (B):

  • "I feel like a complete nerd." [01:40]
  • "I'm gonna jump on that, buddy." [22:24]
  • "Every logo that they launch always has an animated version, which is cool." [16:58]

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This episode of The Angry Designer serves as a crucial guide for graphic designers navigating the modern landscape of logo design. By embracing adaptability, animation, and AI readiness, designers can ensure their work remains relevant, professional, and impactful in an ever-evolving digital world.

Transcript

[A]

This is stuff that's happening already and stuff that's happening in the very near future. This is. This is stuff that we have to start thinking about in all of our logo execution packages.

[B]

Yes. What the hell is going to happen the next 10 years?

[A]

I don't know. They're just going to start embedding logos into our minds.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Into our minds. You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast, where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry. Bull. And share what it takes to charge worth and build badass, rewarding careers. Logos have transformed more dramatically in the past decade than in the past 50 years, maybe even 60. Digital changed everything. We're blowing up at the old outdated thinking of logo design and giving you the three new rules of digital. First, logos that you have to take into consideration. In this episode, you're going to learn why your logos must adapt instantly across all platforms, how animated logos just aren't a trend anymore, and exactly what it means to design an AI ready logo. But before we do, make sure you sign up for our newsletter. Anger management for designers packed with stories, insights, and no fluff. I promise. Sign up in our profile or on the website. All right, angry designers. Keep your eyes on that road or on that path ahead. Or better yet, get to work, because God knows I don't want you to get fired. And let's go. So, Sean, you're looking a little shorter today, buddy. You should see Sean. He's like a little kid at a. At a big table right now.

[B]

I feel like a complete nerd.

[A]

So you totally broke your leg. It's official today.

[B]

It's official today. I went to the. To the orthopedist and he said, yeah, so. Fracture of the fibia, dude. Fibula, Geez.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And you did The X ray looked badass. So I want to get that.

[A]

Well, kittens, and you can. You could download it. She says, apparently.

[B]

So I'm gonna.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

I'm gonna have that. So, yeah, so, yes, I'm sitting, which is kind of pathetic, cuz I can't. I can't be on my foot.

[A]

And what's worse now is we found out that you can't even really be here for two weeks. You're going to be literally sitting on your ass.

[B]

I will be laid up. Yes. And you had knee surgery. So you've kind of. You're kind of.

[A]

Oh, no, I know. Sitting like. And. And it's the first week. Fine. It's okay. Right? Make sure you get a big comfy chair. I know, but then by, you know, you start Getting like stir crazy, you know, because there's only so much TV you can watch. You have your laptop.

[B]

So you'll be, you'll be working because you want exact. Exactly.

[A]

Jeez. Yeah, it's, it's. It's going to be a little challenging. By the second week, you will go stir crazy.

[B]

I will be nuts. I will be nuts. And I can't wait. I. I had to come back this week. Like I. Yeah, we talked about it and I was like, you know, I. You probably would have let me stay for two weeks, but I just couldn't do it. And I may do the same.

[A]

Yeah, well, you. No, no, but I need to get that ready.

[B]

I know, I know. I should do the right thing.

[A]

So like, I mean, I. So now that you got crutches and you're hobbling, you're like three legged hobbling all over the place, right? That's. So your house doesn't really move.

[B]

No.

[A]

So what's that like?

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

You guys clear out furniture.

[B]

No, it's. It's very difficult. It is. It's an older home, so there's smaller hallways and you know, and there's little cubby rooms and stuff like that. So it's just a pain in the ass to get around.

[A]

So just imagine, right. If only homes could adapt to new situation.

[B]

Oh, you're good. Did you like that?

[A]

Did you like that? That was kind of good, right?

[B]

That was great. Usually we talk about the segue, but you just went, right.

[A]

That was a good segue. Right. Well. And I mean, again, the new changing environment, you know, I mean. Okay, let's face it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we've. We've been in this space for 25 years, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Maybe even a little bit longer. And in our 25 years, the landscape in our space has changed more like for a logo. Okay. The, the. There's been more fundamental shifts in logo design and logo execution in the past 20 years, we'll say, than there has been the past 70, 80 years.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You know, like when you're, when we think back to the turn of the century, guys, last century, right, Like Paul Rand and, and Paul Bass, all these amazing guys.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So their stuff seemed to have lasted forever and then it just seemed like, like in a blink in the past 10, 15 years, it just changed so rapidly so many times.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right. It just is unbelievable to actually experience from, from this side of the table, of course.

[B]

And they would never have to deal with, you know, the different aspects of, of what a logo, what they, what they kind of did, right? Like. Yeah, this is, this is crazy. This is just a new. This is a new thing.

[A]

Right, Right. Digital has really turned this whole world, the production side and even the design side of logos upside down. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the. So I got a couple of points here. Like, like the speed that technology changed. Okay. Before, when they created a logo, right. It appeared on print materials. Okay. They were static. That was it. Sometimes it would show up, maybe on tv, but again, you had full control over how it was going to look.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, we're talking show up on print, you know, business cards, billboards, newspaper ads, maybe on a pen if you had to, that would be the responsive nature going down that small. But you had full control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On that. Right. Where now it's like logos live on screens first, not print. Okay. I bet you there was a huge percentage of logos that will never see print. Okay. Because there's so many digital only companies, right. App companies, that you'll never ever see anything in print from those companies. Right. And then, not to mention smartphones, smart watches, you know, websites, social. So it's like logos now, digital first.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Print is not necessarily an afterthought, but it's only if required.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

Crazy. You know, so that means, you know, now all the design has to be digital first. Design or should be digital first.

[B]

Should be digital first.

[A]

Right. Which is crazy because there's a huge population of graphic designers who, you know, even though they may know what CMYK is, they will never have to actually use cmyk. They won't design, they won't know that there is differences. And in when things print and what they look. You need to learn about this. Go visit our buddies over at the Print Design Academy.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But it's true. Before designers had full control over, you know, you know, obviously not only the logo placement, the size, but, you know, the color. Okay. Which was a huge. And the color consistency. Right. Like you would either have a CMYK or it would be a spot color. Right, right. And that was it. And you knew that. Okay. The hardest challenge you had was to like try to find a spot color that was very similar, replicable cmyk.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Right. You would have your pantone selector and you'd be okay. This seemed like he's very close to the spot color. Like, that was the hardest part of your job.

[B]

But then secretly back, you know, you. You do something in RGB and you think, man, I wish we could use this.

[A]

I know, because it's so bright, so much vibrant Right. Then you'd have to then embrace all.

[B]

These spot colors back to cmyk. You're like, okay, well right now, here we are in this digital age.

[A]

And then not to mention that now on the sudden, the logos, like resize without you even knowing.

[B]

Yes, right.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are like the size of a freaking. The tip of a pencil. Okay. So that sucks. Right. You know, you, you have no control over, like, you know, how the colors. Because everybody's a different monitor. Every phone does this differently. Right. Like, it totally changes that whole game. Right. So, I mean, you know, logos compared to before now have to constantly adapt to all these different environments and colors and screens and intensities. So that's freaking crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, there was another part that I thought was crazy. Right? Logos. Before company rolled out a new logo, it would take years before that logo hit all the markets. Everybody would see, oh, it's on their. The sign in the building. It's on their. The stationary. It's now in the newspaper. Right. Like, the rollout was like, no matter how fast you wanted to roll this bad boy out, it would be one, two, three years. Now logos, they launch in like a snap.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right. Remember when Kia launched theirs? They did the drone show.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then all of a sudden, all over the news.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And everybody knew what the new Kia logo was. Love it or hate it.

[B]

Yeah. And then you started seeing them, you know, you never see the old one anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And this is what, not even a year. I don't.

[A]

Instantly. Instantly. Right.

[B]

Pepsi cans, too.

[A]

Well, that's why it was funny because all these brands would change. That's maybe why, you know, like some brands in the 60s to 80s, they didn't change much because they were like, what the hell is the point? Nobody's ever going to notice. It's going to take so damn to roll out where now it's like, it's so immediate that if you really up, like the gap did years ago with their one.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

You can go back and switch it because people have an immediate reaction to it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So this is, you know, this, this whole logo world has just changed. And I thought this would be interesting to talk about today because it's kind of like, you know, we've talked about logo design principles, which, you know, in. In general, I still strongly feel that, you know, that they still apply to almost every good logo design. Right. Yeah. Some new logo design rules. Okay. That I think everybody. Right. Critical rules for this digital first world. Okay. And that is they have to be adaptive. They have to Be animated now.

[B]

Yes. That's a big deal. Yeah.

[A]

They have to be AI ready.

[B]

AI ready.

[A]

So this is something new that I've been researching lately.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And, and I mean, the future's coming. It's coming for us all. I'm not laughing. Yeah, I am. I'm sorry. But I, I, But I mean, again, interesting stuff to learn about. Okay. But I mean, okay, I. Ready. I know crazy. That one, this one was interesting, but I don't wanna. I'm gonna leave that one to the last. Right. All right.

[B]

I'm curious.

[A]

So obviously we have talked in the past about, you know, and we talked early about this, where people thought we were for talking about this, but, you know, logos nowadays absolutely have to be adaptive.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Gone are the days where you create one logo and it's horizontal and that's the way it stays everywhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I remember having arguments with, with apparent brand managers and, and they were like, I'm like, you know, you know, your logo's really wide. You're trying to put it on something vertical. Maybe we should just, you know, take, take your mark and put it on top at the very least and make it a little bit more. Well, no, that's, that's gonna mess with the brand integrity. I, we can't do that. That's like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I don't recognize this brand anymore. I don't understand. I used to have these arguments on a regular basis with people.

[B]

And the funny thing is, what will really wreck your brand identity? A fucking. Your logo that's jammed in this tiniest spot that no one can see it anyway, or an adaptive one.

[A]

Right. And that's exactly it. Logos. In order to do a brand justice, logos need to look and look clear in all kinds of environments. Okay. Let's face it. I mean, they're everywhere. And when you got brands like Spotify and Disney, Nike and Airbnb, when they're making, you know, variations of their logos. Right. You know, it's, it's a cool concept to see. Like, especially, I love what Disney did.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Like, I mean, the full Disney logo has got, like, the Disney castle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the word Disney underneath it. Right. And they're all really, you know, strong brand items. Okay. But as the size goes down. Right. What happens? Right. That castle disappears and then it's Disney.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And again, still recognizable.

[B]

Beautiful. Yeah.

[A]

Even less space. The isne disappears.

[B]

Yes. And it's just the D. But that really stylized and it's beautiful. Recognize it. Yeah.

[A]

Everywhere okay, so now you see that on a phone. So what is more beneficial to the brand? Having the full Disney logo jammed into an icon that's 32 by 32 pixels on a phone or you have the letter D. Yes, absolutely. So this is. This is a really cool opportunity now for all designers, you know, all graphic designers, because you can now go back to brands and be like, well, is your logo, you know, adaptive? Right. Will your logo switch based on social? Will it switch based on, you know, the digital environment, you know, your website? Are you sure it looks good everywhere? It is. And this is, I mean, even small restaurants and such, you know, small, little local places, you know, they're showing up on doordash, they're showing up on Uber Eats, right? And if, again, if you can't see that logo because it's so they haven't created a good responsive version for it, then they're only going to hurt their own. No matter how. How good their food looks, you can't recognize who it is. Somebody else will take it.

[B]

Yeah, especially you see that little. That horizontal logo in all that white space, Right?

[A]

Yeah. That's great.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So, I mean, again, so, you know, the actionable tips here that designers need to consider, you know, like a small list here, you know, they. You need to make sure that the logos are simplified enough that you can actually go down to a small size. Right. You have to make sure that they. They're also dark mode compatible nowadays. Okay. Because a lot of people have dark mode. Right. And they have, you know, so your logo needs to show up nice and revers. Okay. And not just take the colors and just make it white and just flip it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we've seen what that looks like sometimes, and there's some funkiness depending on certain brands about that.

[B]

True.

[A]

So you got to do that. And then again, you know, the big. The big push here is you need to have different sizes, different variations, even different kind of stacking and placements, you know, that are available for the different screen sizes, whether it's on a mobile device, whether it's social. Right. You. You need to do your brand justice and make sure it looks a million bucks. And this isn't just digital. This also applies to, you know, print ads. You know, oftentimes, you know, we got the Kitchener Rangers, the hockey team here. We'll go there. And a big push locally is rink signs. Rink board signs. Right? They will sell these extremely wide, and we're talking like wider than nine by 16, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

They're super horizontal, but sometimes the brands on there are like a vertical logo and you can't see it here. It's like you got this huge board and a logo that nobody resized to be good. So from, you know, when you're up in the stands, you can't even recognize.

[B]

That'S money that you've just pissed away.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, quick tests here, you know, make sure, you know, you shrink down the logo size to like a, you know, I think a Favicon is like 16 by 16 pixels. It's really tiny. I think it's pretty small, but I think that's the smallest size. But I know icons we were dealing with today, app icons are 32 by 32. Right. So you need to be able to shrink it down and make sure that the brand is still legible in this case. Right. And then of course, you know, we talked about dark mode. And then again, if it's not clear enough, that means it's not adaptive enough. Okay? Remember that if it's unclear that whose brand it is and whose logo it is, that means it's not adaptive enough. So keep adapting, guys. Keep adapting.

[B]

Adapting. Always be adapting.

[A]

So, you know, the second one that is really important for this new age, okay, is like it or not, there is a huge advantage for logos to be animated now.

[B]

How often do you see this now in anything? Like always.

[A]

Always.

[B]

Logo comes out with a little bit of an animation.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

An animated version. Yes. Huge.

[A]

Look, we, we pitched a company two weeks ago, okay, and we. They didn't have an animated logo. There's a billion dollar company and at the beginning of their presentations, they didn't have it. So when we did that, oh, it's almost like they didn't even see the rest of the presentation. They saw the.

[B]

What the hell was that?

[A]

They're like, whoa, I'm sold. That's amazing. Let's go with it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And it's true, right? It brings logos, it brings brands to life. Yes, right. It adds a little bit. Especially with this one. Like, I mean, the little animation we did, it was only like a five second animation, you know, but it told the whole logo story. And this logo was pretty intricate. We didn't create it.

[B]

It was a lot.

[A]

There was a lot to it. But the little animation made it all work. Okay. Like static logos, they're completely forgotten these days.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's, that's the catch that people have to remember. We're, we're in this environment. Everything has to happen and catch our attention. Yeah, catch it with an animated logo.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true. You. You see that? It's like again, this is, this is something like Paul Rand or Saul Bass would never have ever kind of had to deal with.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Maybe saw Bass because he was in movies and kind of an animation.

[A]

You're right. You're right.

[B]

Style. But he didn't animate logos. No, no, I don't think he did.

[A]

He didn't need to back then. Right.

[B]

Because you. It was not even a thing.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But now. Yeah. You like. What's that?

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Used to be brand loyalty.

[A]

No. What was that under consideration?

[B]

Under consideration?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes. Every logo that they launch always has an animated version, which is cool.

[A]

And even our friends at Pentagram, okay. The agency, not the satanic cult, however they're. They might be closely aligned. They might be. But if you notice, every time they, Every time they launch something, you know, a new logo, brand or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They always have a huge push.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

For animated. Animated logos, animated corporate IDs. Right. Like, you know, and because it's not like it just shows up once in a presentation. It's done. Right. It shows up presentations, online menu boards. Right. Online ads. Like, how much, how much of a push is there now? That carousel ads and animated ads, Google Ads. Like, it's everywhere. You even on a website in the corner, the first time somebody comes in, add that little splash of animation, then it's cached and they don't have to see it again. But I mean, it's so important. It's. It elevates this brand and almost brings life to it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like Netflix. You know, there's. Every time that, that app launches, you see their animated logo. Right. Google even does their. You know, the Google word turns into the three dots. Right. Because it's doing stuff for you. And Discord's got one.

[B]

That's cute.

[A]

Discord's is cute, right?

[B]

Like a controller. Right.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

And that. What is Discord like? I know. I don't know much about.

[A]

Well, I mean, Discord's like everything, right. Mid Journey lives on Discord. But it's. It's like discussion groups, right? It's like a discuss community. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it's got a gaming element though too.

[A]

Oh, it's huge. It's huge for games, but it's a lot of areas. Right. And again, Mid Journey launched on Discord first. Right. Really community driven platform. Yeah. So, okay, that makes sense. Is he a gaming. He does look like a gaming console.

[B]

But regardless, that's what it was because. Yeah, there's. There's like a little element to him. He's a face.

[A]

You see how cute, though? It turns out adorable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That animation is great.

[B]

Yeah. And it's very unique, very distinct. Yeah.

[A]

Even obviously Disney does. Right. I mean, there's. Yep. So again, it's like there's so many, you know, opportunities to use these animations now more than ever. It's easy for anybody to get on these. Right. For. For the longest time, you know, animated logos were. You had to be a motion designer to even start understanding. Right. Or back in the day, for some of you who might remember, Flash allowed us to do a lot of that. Remember Flash, everybody.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So that darn Steve Jobs got rid of Flash. Bastard. But I mean, it used to be back then. And then, you know, as of recently, it'd be. Adobe After Effects would be what people would use. Right. But it is a very different mindset. Right. But now, like, I think there's a free Adobe app called Express. Adobe Express that allows you to do for free. Right. Obviously, you're part of the creative crowd. You get that. But then even online, like, there's platforms like Lottie L O T T I E. I think that. And that's, again, it's just simple to animate your stuff on there. Right. Go. You put your. And then you can actually. It's getting so. It's getting so much more easy now. And I guarantee you there's probably AI apps everywhere that will do it for you. If you just drop in the logo and it's like, sure, I'll do it for that. Not that I'm pushing that one, but, you know, I do think that this is now a norm that almost everybody should pitch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In, you know, their logo design packages. Right. Our packages are getting bigger. It used to just be. Be a logo and then your color, your font. This happens. Logo, font adaptive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, then. Then animated now and this and that. Like, there's a lot to this. Right?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I think the key here, though, is, is. Is when people get into this, you know, less is more. Okay. And again, these things, they can only be three to five seconds max. Right. I bet you five seconds to sit through a logo reveal would be too much.

[B]

Would be too much.

[A]

You know, it doesn't sound like it, but like, I. I think ours. Three seconds. And after that, I'm already bored.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's just. So, yeah, screw the three to five seconds. Stick to three. Okay. Get it for three seconds if you can. Right. You know, and then Again, subtle motions, Something easy, right? Like, you don't have to go too crazy. Fades, gentle shifts. Those are the easiest ones to do. And just by doing a logo fade and a reveal is just that alone can help versus just a static one, right? Because then this way, it's just like, it shows the logo without being distracting. Especially if you can't really get to that level yet, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then, you know, you have to remember when you're animating these, okay, if it doesn't reinforce the brand or doesn't reinforce the user experience, cut it. Don't even do it.

[B]

Don't. Don't bother.

[A]

Don't go overboard. Right? Because I think what I don't want to see is. Already we're battling with so much freaking, you know, design pollution out there. Last thing we need is now animated design pollution. God, it'll feel like Homer's webpage. Remember dancing?

[B]

Jesus. Yeah, seriously.

[A]

But again, you know what? Test your speeds, you know, when you're building these. Right. How's your butt, Sean?

[B]

Hey, this is. This sucks. I'd much rather stand. Stupid old body.

[A]

Oh, God. I don't even know how you're gonna handle the next two weeks, buddy.

[B]

I'm gonna do this. Oh, man.

[A]

You know. You know what you're gonna do? You can learn how to make animated logos.

[B]

Yeah, actually, I'm gonna do that. What did you say it was? Adobe?

[A]

What, Express Express? Yep, yep. And again, it just. It simplifies this whole process.

[B]

That's cool. That's the thing, is there's all kinds of interesting stuff around there that I don't know what that does.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I guess I should be a little more mindful about that, but I have access to it.

[A]

Jump on that, buddy.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

So, all right, so we've got, you know, logos need to now be adaptive, and for your benefit, they should be animated. So here's the third one that I think is pretty good, can be controversial. Okay? But this is something that I've just been reading up on the past couple weeks, so I thought it's worth mentioning. But I think, you know, brands, logos in the future need to now be AI ready.

[B]

AI.

[A]

Okay, so, like, first and foremost, okay? Like, let's. Let's. Let's talk about the big, you know, elephant in the room.

[B]

In the room. Yeah.

[A]

We're not saying that we want AI to be able to copy our logos that we create right now, you know, redo them on their own platforms. Sadly, they're doing this without our help, you know, and, you know, like, it or not, that that ship has sailed, regardless if it's, you know, they got there in an ethical way or not, okay? That part of this world is, is happening. And, and sadly, you know, we, we were just stuck in the crossfire, okay? But that's not what this is about, okay? What this is, is by making logos AI ready, okay, we're actually protecting our designs from incorrect reproductions, okay? So we're kind of like saying, look, you know what, I know you're going to rip it off, right? I know you're going to be using it for your own purposes, but there's not like their own. And I'll explain the purposes, but I know you're doing it, but at least if you're going to do it, use this version, right, with the right colors so you're protected. You're, you're, you're delivering the brand in the proper way. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so the whole idea here is that your logos now, you know, if not now, in the very, very, very near, future, needs to play nice with AI because there are so many AI driven environments and platforms that will pull your logo into them. Okay? So, for example, Perplexity, okay? Perplexity is like an AI driven search engine, okay? It's pretty cool. It's pretty fucking cool. I use that chat and I use chat for, you know, I use them, you know, interchangeably because they do, they do different things. But the thing is, if I'm looking for a brand in Perplexity, okay, it will go online and show me examples of the brand. It'll pull them, okay? So it'll pull them or it'll pull it what it believes likenesses of that brand are, okay? There is so many AI driven search engines that are coming out there. There's AI driven tools. There are going to be AI driven ad tools out there that will basically build ads based on brands, 100%. And if they don't have the right tools equipped, they're going to botch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do their own versions of it, okay? So that's why this happens. AI is now going to be scanning and recognizing these logos online. Okay? And again, Google Lens is another one. Pinterest has got their own version. Okay. Yeah, right. Automated ads we talked about. Oh, oh, Augmented reality is another one, right? That is coming fast and it's AI driven augmented reality. So in that kind of environment, you put on the glasses, you put on your headset and you're going to start seeing these logos. So the idea here is that we need to provide the logos in an AI friendly ready way so that when it is displaying it in one of these now AI driven apps, like it or not, it's going to be driven that the proper thing. Okay? So yeah, this helps for our brand integrity.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay. So our clients now, their brand will show up properly in these kind of.

[B]

Environments, even though it's not, it's not a licensed version or it's not supposed.

[A]

To be there because they're not trying to sell anything. Right? This augmented world, you're walking down the street and it's like, hey, this is, you know, Barking Dog design studio, right? Boom, there's that logo. Here's Midnight Cafe, you know, coffee shop. Boom, here's that logo. It can pull it up for you or it can make its own version based on all the other.

[B]

It is shitty, but it is your brand.

[A]

Exactly. Oh, right. So you see where. So you know, again, so brand integrity is a big reason discovered ability. Okay. This does help, you know, like for recognition in these kind of environments. Right. And the thing is then it's giving us the Runway to do this properly so that it gives us designers a little bit more control in these environments. Okay. And it allows us. And again, another search tool, another, another upgrade option in this whole package. Okay. Maybe the local shops might not have as much interest in it, but you start getting bigger clients and you start telling them, look, this is the future. Yeah, Bigger companies know this is the future. They're willing to invest to be kept up and kept up to speed in these environments. Okay? So some basic, you know, AI ready readiness ideas, okay. That you need to take into consideration. Okay. Some high level stuff. I'll, I'll get technical, like the two big technical things that we need to take into consideration. But some of the design readiness stuff, you know, or tests that we need to do, you know, we need to make sure that there's a silhouette test that has to take happen. Okay. So this means, you know, your logo, when you design it for a customer, if you go drop it out to black and white, okay. And you see that silhouette? If you can still recognize that it's their logo, that does well, okay. With these tools, because they're going to come in, they're going to try to scan the shape, right? Because they're, they're not always reading what's in the shape.

[B]

Right?

[A]

As so much the shape and the, and the shapes that make the logo itself. Right. So the silhouette test helps, okay. Obviously the thumbnail test, okay. Will it recognize it at a small scale of 32 by 32? If we do it adaptive. This is great. This is, we're already covered for this, right? Prompt test. Okay. Is it easy to describe this logo for AI? Okay. Or are you trying to tell such a huge story with all these crazy gradients and this and that, that there's no way you could try to prompt that logo to life. Okay. So you got to think that. Right. And last but not least, there has to be a contrast test to this too, right. It needs to be able to work in just shades of gray. Okay. And enough contrast. And this does kind of apply to the whole accessibility side. Right. So we need to make sure that we have contrasting colors. So these are just some high level ideas on how to make them AI ready and, and, and to pass that test.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

But there's two big technical things. Okay. That apply here. Okay. So number one, you know, we're often creating in vectors and then we're saving as PNGs or JPEGs. Right. So there's a file format that we don't talk about enough, and that's the SVG file format.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So SVG file format is a vector based file format, but it's also a digitally, you know, adapt accepted format. Okay. So we're, we're coding with SVG files now. We're dropping them in on websites as opposed to PNGs or JPEGs. So now, okay, think of it as a digital vector file. So unlike, you know, our PNGs and JPEGs that are raster based images. Okay. SVG files are like digital. They're the equivalent to a digital vector.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They are a vector. Because the thing is, you could download an SVG file, drop it into Illustrator and just boom, keep designing away with it. Right. Then you can take that, put it on a website. Boom, you can see it on a website. It is such a versatile file format that I can't see a reason in the near future why PNGs and JPEGs are even going to exist. Because they're also really small. Because it's a vector.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So wow. Yeah, that one's huge.

[B]

That's interesting. Yeah. And the vector obviously when it smaller it gets, it still maintains its, its like so.

[A]

So now these platforms, if it finds an SVG everywhere, it's going to show up that SVG is clear. Right? It's clear as a day.

[B]

And it will have like a descriptor. Of what?

[A]

Ah, the descriptor is the next part. Okay. So yeah, good for you. Oh, there is, okay, a part two. Another big technical tip here. There is something in the near future. It already exists. This already exists, but you know, you'll see more of it in the near future. It's called an LLMs text file.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Okay. So Learning Language Ms. Text file. Okay. And what this is, it's basically it's similar to like the index file that you would put on a website, right? It's like what crawlers would go in and look at or your ads txt file, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what this is, this is going to be a digital file that's going to be on the website, okay? Because, because again, AI will search the web, but it's not going to search your computer, it'll search the web, okay? It'll go into your website. And this text file, it's a simple text file that sits in the website root fold just like some of these other ones, okay. Like sitemap does and all that, right? And what it does, it actually helps the AI understand your brand, okay? It's, it has a format and you just type in your brand colors, okay? Pantone this hex code that you type in your fonts that it uses. You outline all there is a format. And if anybody wants to see this format, hit me up. But you know, again, I'm sure you can find it online, I'm sure you can find it on chat, guaranteed. But regardless what it is, is you're listing, okay, what the criteria is. Here's my SVG file and you're going to put a link to it. So it's now going to look SVG logo svg. Here's the link, here's the reverse. Here is the dark mode, okay? So it is a blueprint for AI to read and it will read it, which is the crazy thing it looks for and will take it and use this in these kind of environments. It knows to do that. So, so this is what I mean by, you know, this is the big thing that I've been learning about the past couple weeks and all the, all the new ways that AI is going to be kind of moving, moving brands to that next level. So, so this LLMs text file, okay, helps with the accuracy, of course. It helps the learning language models, you know, understand brands details, especially when generating content for that brand, okay. It helps personalize, okay, because it'll speak, speak in the voice of the brand, right? It'll actually take your brand and do what you want it to do. So it makes sure that everything it does aligns with your brand's tone, with your brand's messaging. So that's massive. Okay? And then again, since you are being friendly to it, it will be friendly to your brand and then it boosts how much your brand is actually. Well, no, but then it boosts it because it's like, hey, these guys are jumping on here, let me put this in our examples.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now again, obviously I can't say 100%, you know, this is all the stuff I've learning about. But it seems like AI driven platforms are requesting these files and these file formats. So those who do comply tend to get rewarded.

[B]

Get rewarded.

[A]

Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So this is what I mean by logos now have. And we've entered this whole new technical, you know, digital age, you know, and beyond anything that we've been living the past 20 years. Like we're at a whole new state.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And logos now, they absolutely have to be adaptive. It's to our benefit to make him animated. Okay. And now AI ready logos. If you're not already doing this, you will be doing it within the next 12 to 18 months. 100%. So these are all three new, new ways. You know, a, you know, you upgrade your logo program, upgrade to your customers, go back to your existing customers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, hey, guess what? There's some new things we need to talk about.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right. You know, and again, and it's, it's just another thing to add to your whole, you know, audit, your checklist. Audit. Right. To be like, yeah, we need to. Are you doing this? Okay. Boom. Okay.

[B]

Should be here. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's pretty funny because now, now there's so many different parts of just a simple basic logo design that, you know, I can't see logos costing any less than thousands and thousands of. Because they're even the execution on a final product is now get. So you're going to have to start being able to sell and explain all these different things.

[B]

Yeah, no shit. Yeah. And that's, that is fascinating stuff. Like, holy crap, man. So you, you send it out there and has. It's like a little, little brand guideline inside that you can.

[A]

That's the. I know, that's kind of cool, right? It is, it, it's a, it is a little brand guideline. That's exactly how to describe that. It's cool, right?

[B]

Digital one. Yeah, that's fucking cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

So again, you know what? I don't think that, you know, designers from 70 years ago were thinking that their logos would have to do this much work. You know, granted, they're important, but yeah. Holy. This kind of Stuff. This is a whole new level.

[B]

This is a whole new level.

[A]

But again, it's, this is the way it's all. Again, I, I, I, I can't believe what I experienced the past 20 years. Yeah, okay, 20, 25 years when we have experience because we've gone from print and let's honestly, it was all print when we started. Yeah, that was it. Right? Like web. I remember having to unplug my fax machine, plug it into my modem to check my email once a day. Once a day. Like, seriously, Internet had that sound back then that, that scream. Like it sounded like some sort of little dinosaur.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Music to our ears.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And now. Now.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy.

[A]

Crazy. Dude, how fast?

[B]

That is insane.

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, honestly, I, I hope you guys got some pretty decent stuff out of this episode, because this is stuff that's happening already and stuff that's happening in the very near future. This is, this is stuff that we have to start thinking about in all of our logo execution packages.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, you know, drop us a line. Let us know your thoughts on this stuff. Let us know if you think that we're okay. And if you're just gonna be designing logos flat for now on, please don't give up, you know, because again, this, I'm giving you this information. We're talking about this to prepare you for the future of graphic design. Okay? This is the future of logo design. So. So don't hate us, okay? Don't hate. We're the messenger. That's right. Okay, buddy.

[B]

Wow, that's. That was amazing, man. That's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As a learning experience here.

[A]

This was a big one.

[B]

Again, like, what the hell is going to happen the next 10 years?

[A]

I don't know. They're just going to start embedding logos into our minds.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Into our minds. All right, everybody.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry.