Stop Designing for Your Client. Start Designing for the End User.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Stop Designing for Your Client. Start Designing for the End User."
The Angry Designer Podcast
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Hosts: Mossimo and Sean

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Introduction

In the June 10, 2025 episode of The Angry Designer, hosts Mossimo and Sean delve into a critical issue plaguing the graphic design industry: the prevalent tendency to prioritize client desires over the needs of the end user. Through insightful discussion and real-world examples, they argue that neglecting the end user not only undermines the effectiveness of design but also leads to significant brand failures.

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Case Studies of Brand Flops

Bud Light’s Misstep

Mossimo initiates the conversation by highlighting Bud Light's recent failed attempt to reposition its brand through an influencer campaign. Despite good intentions, the campaign "completely ignored their core customer," leading to a substantial backlash. Mossimo emphasizes, “You can't alienate your base audience” (10:34), underscoring the importance of understanding and maintaining a connection with existing customers.

HBO’s Identity Crisis

Next, the hosts examine HBO's turbulent rebranding journey. Transitioning from HBO to HBO Max and then attempting to drop "HBO" altogether resulted in the loss of nearly two and a half million subscribers within a year. Sean reflects, “They lost almost 2 million subscribers.” (13:09), attributing the decline to confusion and a departure from the brand's established identity. Mossimo notes, “They forgot who their market was” (15:43), illustrating how shifting focus away from core values can destabilize a brand.

Jaguar’s Rebranding Failure

The discussion then turns to Jaguar, which faced a significant backlash after rebranding efforts aimed at portraying it as an inclusive, modern lifestyle brand detached from its automotive roots. Mossimo points out, “They forgot who their market was. Their market were older, influential, affluent people.” (15:59). This misalignment between the brand’s messaging and its audience resulted in a disastrous reception, forcing Jaguar to retreat and acknowledge their mistake.

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Lessons Learned on Branding and Design

From these case studies, Mossimo and Sean extract vital lessons:

1. Stay True to Brand DNA: Altering a brand's core identity without considering the existing customer base can lead to confusion and loss of loyalty.

2. Understand the End User: Successful design must prioritize the needs and preferences of the end user over client requests or industry trends.

3. Avoid Trend Chasing: Relying solely on what’s currently popular without aligning it with user needs can result in ineffective and even detrimental designs.

Mossimo encapsulates the essence of these lessons by stating, “Design starts and ends with the end user.” (34:17), reinforcing the podcast’s central thesis.

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The Importance of Designing for End Users

The hosts argue that many designers mistakenly create portfolios and designs aimed at impressing peers rather than serving the actual users. Mossimo criticizes platforms like Behance and Dribbble, highlighting their focus on designer recognition over user engagement: “They’re for other designers to go in, upvote you, you know, dribbble. You can't even get an account on Dribbble unless another designer refers you.” (21:05). This environment encourages designs that may look aesthetically pleasing but fail to resonate with or meet the needs of the intended audience.

Design Education Shortcomings

Mossimo and Sean also criticize design education for lacking emphasis on end-user research. They point out that design schools focus heavily on technical skills and aesthetic principles, neglecting practical applications geared towards user satisfaction. “Design starts and ends with the end user. It’s probably the most important part of the whole strategy session.” (24:09) emphasizes the necessity of integrating user-centric approaches into both education and professional practice.

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Strategies for Effective User-Centric Design

To foster designs that truly serve the end user, the hosts propose several strategies:

1. Comprehensive Research: Before initiating any design project, conduct thorough research to understand the end user's values, problems, language, and emotional drivers. Mossimo advises, “You need to learn about their values. You need to learn about the problems that they have... what their emotional drivers are.” (25:06).

2. Focus on the End User, Not the Client: While clients are essential, the primary focus should remain on the end user. Mossimo emphasizes, “Not to make our customers life better. Your portfolio look any better? To make the end user's life better.” (24:32).

3. Use Data-Driven Decisions: Utilize tools like ChatGPT and extensive online research to gather actionable insights about the end user, ensuring that design decisions are backed by data rather than subjective preferences.

4. Question and Validate: Continuously ask critical questions about whom the design is for and validate whether it meets the end user's needs. “Stop trying to design for approval. Your customer's approval, your friend's approval, and start designing for that end user to reach them and impact.” (33:00).

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Red Flags in Design Practices

Mossimo and Sean identify several red flags indicating a design is not user-centric:

• Chasing Trends Over Functionality: Prioritizing what looks "cool" without considering user relevance. “If you’re designing for what you think looks cool, not necessarily what works, that’s a red flag.” (29:19).

• Overemphasis on Peer Approval: Creating designs aimed at impressing other designers rather than serving end users. “Forming portfolios for upvotes on Dribbble instead of user engagement is detrimental.” (21:05).

• Neglecting User Feedback: Relying solely on client or superficial feedback without engaging with actual user experiences. Mossimo shares a personal anecdote: “We created this awesome landing page... it looked credible. It was only converting, like, and small percentage points... Somebody inside that company ripped off some webpage... It was converting almost five times more than ours was.” (29:45).

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a strong reiteration of the importance of prioritizing the end user in all design endeavors. Mossimo succinctly states, “Design starts and ends with the end user.” (34:17), encapsulating the episode's core message. By embracing user-centric design principles, graphic designers can create more effective, meaningful, and successful projects that truly resonate with those they aim to serve.

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Notable Quotes

• Mossimo at [10:34]: “You can't alienate your base audience.”
• Sean at [13:09]: “They lost almost 2 million subscribers.”
• Mossimo at [15:43]: “They forgot who their market was. Their market were older, influential, affluent people.”
• Mossimo at [21:05]: “They’re for other designers to go in, upvote you, you know, dribbble.”
• Mossimo at [24:32]: “To make the end user's life better.”
• Mossimo at [29:19]: “If you're designing for what you think looks cool, not necessarily what works, that’s a red flag.”
• Mossimo at [34:17]: “Design starts and ends with the end user.”

---

Timestamp Reference

• 10:34 – Discussion on Bud Light’s branding failure.
• 13:09 – Impact of HBO’s rebranding on subscriber loss.
• 15:43 – Jaguar's misalignment with its core market.
• 21:05 – Critique of design platforms like Dribbble.
• 24:32 – Emphasis on improving the end user's life.
• 29:19 – Identifying red flags in user-centric design.
• 34:17 – Summary statement on user-centric design importance.

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a crucial reminder for graphic designers to realign their focus towards the end user's needs rather than external validations or fleeting trends. By learning from the highlighted brand failures and adopting a user-centric approach, designers can enhance the impact and longevity of their creative work.

Transcript

[Mossimo]

Foreign.

[Unknown]

You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry.

[Sean]

Bull.

[Unknown]

And share what it takes to charge what you're worth and build badass rewarding careers.

[Sean]

There you go. Oh, okay, please, please, let's get.

[Mossimo]

Time to get into something good and talk later. So if anybody. Yeah, it's got sip here. Oh, well, listen. Wow.

[Sean]

What a difference.

[Mossimo]

So if anybody must know what we're owing and awing about. I got tired of, of trying to find a bourbon replacement. You know, unfortunately, whiskey's just not cutting it. And I thought it was time to throw one back to our Shawnee boy and picked up some great scotch. We've got a 12 year old Beaumore. Beaumore. We've had this before and you know what? It was just, you know, their, their tagline is today as it was then. And it's true. It's, it's so smoky.

[Sean]

Yes, it's smoky.

[Mossimo]

It's got nice oak flavor. This isn't too scotchy.

[Sean]

Yep.

[Mossimo]

But it is, it's just got everything that, that, that you want and expect from it. I think everybody can appreciate this.

[Sean]

This. Absolutely. Yeah. It's not, it's not in your face like Laphroaig or something like that. It's a very nice middle. Not a middle of the road because it's up there.

[Mossimo]

It's, it is, it is up there.

[Sean]

It's a, it's a. I get this a lot is one of my go.

[Mossimo]

To'S when it is, it's nice and I, I can appreciate that. And you know, especially that, that smoke flavor, that heat. It's not for everybody.

[Sean]

It's not for everybody.

[Mossimo]

And scotch isn't for everybody.

[Sean]

That's true.

[Mossimo]

But it's, it's, you know, it's, it's for people who appreciate it. Right. And Beaumore, I mean this brand has been around since 1779. Okay. Like it's been around forever. And they know their market and they're not going to change, you know, their, their, their taste. They're not going to go change the flavor profile. They're, you know, they know who it's for. They know they're not for everybody.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And they're okay with.

[Sean]

That's right.

[Mossimo]

And, and you know, it seems like, you know, lately a lot of people aren't okay with that and it's getting a lot of people in shit.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Right.

[Sean]

And you're not going to see Beaumore with a scotch and Splenda mix.

[Mossimo]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know what I mean? Like, oh, here's where we're going now, reduced sugar.

[Mossimo]

You can have Beaumore put some Splendid fit, and then they put extra caffeine and call it Beaumore Max.

[Sean]

Yes, yes.

[Mossimo]

Well, and it's true. This, this is. And, and, and I think that we need. We Some needs to be said. And again, because again, the problem is, you know, I've seen a lot of brand fuckups lately over the past few years of huge, huge brand ups.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And I, I'm shocked at this. But I'm seeing a reoccurring trend, not just from there, but even from designers where it seems like they have a complete disregard for the end user or their customer's customer.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

And it is, it's getting brands fucking huge. And we'll talk about that a little bit later.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

But I mean, even like from the design sense, it's like nobody ever mentions the customers anymore. Ever.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Like, you know, nobody ever stops to think, hey, what does the end user want?

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

They're, you know, it seems like, you know, and not there, but, you know, and even we at times are focused so much on the person who's paying the bill and what do they want?

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Okay. And I think that's the problem. That's what's getting people in shit here. Right.

[Sean]

These three that you have, you're absolutely right. Nobody thought of the end user.

[Mossimo]

I know, Right. And that's the whole thing. Right?

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Our customer might be paying for the work.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. But they're not the ones using, you know, the work. They're not the ones who we are creating our designs for.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And this is something that nobody talks about. Maybe because it's not sexy, maybe because it's something that people don't want to admit. Or, or, or maybe it slows people down. But, you know, lately we've been talking about the importance of strategy and to put strategy first before design. Okay. Think first, you know, don't just jump in and start designing and shit.

[Sean]

Right, right, Right.

[Mossimo]

Well, one of the most important strategic things that nobody really mentions you, the end user.

[Sean]

Start at the end.

[Mossimo]

Nobody ever. You know, even. I hate this. Okay? But even with this word Persona. Okay. I fucking hate this. I fucking blame the UX for this. The UX designer's Persona is your fault. Because what happens is we've now gotten rid of the human component and given it a name.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

It's the Persona. The Persona who is the end user.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

You know, this is the most important thing. Like most, if you go online. Right. All the logo processes that we see it's all like flash. It's all like design porn. It's like, oh, look, look, look. He's. He's going to show us how to lay out the logo. He's going to show us about proportions. Oh, look, when I start my logo, I, you know, like do mood boards and this and that. Like, this is all a bunch of. Right. Word mapping, sketching. Like nobody ever starts with the end user. Okay. They always focus on what looks great first. First.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

And I think it's getting a lot of people in trouble because design starts and ends with the end user. But people seem to forget this.

[Sean]

That's right.

[Mossimo]

And not just designers.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

But we're talking giant billion dollar brands seem to forget this. Yeah, People seem to be focused on trends, on hot topics, you know, cultural phenomenons. For now, whatever you want to call it, political.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay.

[Sean]

Other designers.

[Mossimo]

Other designers. That's the worst fucking drives me. But the thing is, the work that we're doing isn't for us, sure as fucking hell is it for other designers. And in fact, it's not even for our customers. It's for our customers. Customers. And we need to start putting them first. Right. And then again, it's hard for the customer then in that case to balk at that. And if they do, then they're dealing with their own ego issues and so be it. Right. But the thing is, if you don't know who your audience is for the project that you're working on, okay, well, then you're not actually designing, you are decorating. Okay. And that's honestly the shit that we see online is proof of all this. Right. All the logo design videos always start with flash and pretty and cool. Even all the AI bullshit we see. Right. Every. It's always typed in on just what's hip and what's now and what's cool, not what actually resonates with the customer.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

This is something that I think we do well here. Yes, our logos are often boring, right? Because you know, we're a B2B market and you know, our logos oftentimes, you know, they serve a purpose.

[Sean]

Yes. They're effective.

[Mossimo]

They're effective, right. They have to be quick, clear, you know, they don't always have to be sexy. When we have the opportunity.

[Sean]

Yes. Then we will.

[Mossimo]

Then we have fun.

[Sean]

And generally too, our. Our first initial present presentation to the clients. There will be some funkier ones in there, but, you know, they don't have a hope in hell.

[Mossimo]

Yeah, yeah. Oftentimes that, that Hail Mary, but at.

[Sean]

Least you get to do it and you understand, you know, and it's fine.

[Mossimo]

And it's our niche and, and I'm okay with I'm never being a Lincoln design. Okay? I, I will live vicariously. Yeah, buddy. Dan. Never be Dan. Unfortunately. But the thing is, it's like there's so much emphasis put on the design portion, there's so much rushing put towards the design port that nobody seems to be paying enough attention to the end user or the, the customer's customer. And. And again, not just designers, but giant brands. It's getting companies in so much hell, they're losing billions of dollars in this. And now a word from our sponsor.

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[Mossimo]

Just the past two years.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. We've had three giant brand flops. Okay? So number one, everybody has heard about the Bud Light field, okay? Like we're talking billions of dollars here. Okay? So. And this was, you know, the audience backfire on this. Okay? So you know, what they were trying to do is they tried to reposition the brand, okay, with an influencer campaign and it got them in trouble. Not I'm okay, You know, I don't care about what they were, you know, the hearts and I mean, that's Fine. I don't care about that. That's not what this is about. But the thing is, they completely ignored their core customer. Okay. And what they thought of it. Okay. And their, you know, impression of this.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And, you know, if that was their intent, intent to be like you, our current customers, we want to go for something. Well, then they succeeded.

[Sean]

Then they did that. Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Because that's exactly. There was better ways to reach. If, in fact, they wanted to reach, you know, more sensitive market or a more inclusive market or they wanted to reach more women, there probably would have been better. They could have chosen someone like Danica Patrick.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

You know, like everybody, guys, girls in their core market would have been like, hell, yeah. Right. Because again, strong woman. If that's. But no, they. They had something, they pushed further and they weren't actually thinking about the consequences or the reaction it would have with their end user. Yes. Okay. Huge problem. So the intention, you know, the intention might have been well placed, but the execution was wrong because they weren't thinking about, you know, the consequences.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Of their actions. And, you know, does the audience actually give that much a shit? Well, sure enough, the audience did.

[Sean]

They did. Did they ever recover from that?

[Mossimo]

Well, apparently they are climbing back up again. They've. With new campaigns, they've got new spokespeople, they've got a couple really banging country singers, I think Post Malone, actually.

[Sean]

Oh, really?

[Mossimo]

I think I could be wrong. I could be wrong.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Mossimo]

But regardless, you know, the reality here is the lesson to be learned from their mistake. Right. And you know, I went through this one is, is you can't alienate your base audience.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

It's all right to, like, you know, to. To go and reach somewhere else and reach for new customers as well. Right, Right. But when we're talking about your brand, you need to evolve your brand with intention. Okay. You can't try to disrupt your existing brand.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Your existing core customers.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

So the Bud Light fiasco, real big up.

[Sean]

That was huge.

[Mossimo]

Okay. HBO is another one. Okay. HBO has been going through such a. Exactly. Such an identity crisis. Okay. Like, if anybody doesn't know, okay, HBO went from HBO to HBO Go, okay. To HBO now to HBO Max. And then they thought, well, that's too much to say, so let's drop the hbo, just go with Max.

[Sean]

The identifying part. Yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

Got rid of that. Well, and again, what happened is, you know, when they dropped HBO to just Max, people were like, within one quarter, one year, like, not even a year, 1/4, 3 months, they lost almost 2 million subscribers. Okay. Like Vanish.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Okay. They, they actually had the balls to try this for the whole year. By the end of the year was almost two and a half million subscribers gone. Oh, okay. And it wasn't that they were. It's just. I don't think that anybody hated what they were doing, but they were just confused as fucking hell.

[Sean]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Because again, HBO number one. I don't even know why they started going down this road. HBO was. You know, when I think of hbo, I think of awesome shows like Rome, right?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Or Silicon Valley.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Mossimo]

Ever. Okay. There's something great about this. But what started happening is they started focusing less on their customers, what their customers wanted, and they started focusing on the shows and the network, and they were, look, they're being more bottom line driven than, you know, giving the end users what. What they were looking for.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

So needless to say, they, they went back. Okay, they, they, they did go back.

[Sean]

So it's HBO Max now.

[Mossimo]

Yeah, now it's back to Max. They, they, they brought the HBO back.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Which is genius, guys. Wow.

[Sean]

How much did that cost?

[Mossimo]

But again, you know, if there's a lesson here is if, if the brand, when the name is actually part of.

[Sean]

The brand and so identifiable, like, so identifiable.

[Mossimo]

Right.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Don't mess with it. Just don't leave it.

[Sean]

Leave it there.

[Mossimo]

Leave it. It might not be sexy. Just leave it. But I like HBO Max, and I didn't care about HBO Max. That's fine.

[Sean]

Makes sense what they want to do. They want to park statement, right? Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Right? Yeah. It's fun.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

He was like, ooh, let's add in Max. Let's just amp up HBO regardless.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

You can't drop the hbo.

[Sean]

No, you cannot. That's. Yeah, that's your ticket. Yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

And. Okay, and then the third company. Okay. Which is the most recent one. Okay.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Is Jaguar's huge flop. So this was so huge. There was so many designers online throwing this out there. I didn't even go there. I wanted to do a video, give my opinion, but we were flooded with like a thousand. Okay. But guess what? Jaguar has now come public and been like, we fudged up.

[Sean]

Oh, they, they owned it up.

[Mossimo]

This has all happened in the past couple of weeks. They owned it. They, they've forward. They're like, yeah, we up on this. We're firing the agency. As though that was enough.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And, and, you know, we're, we're, we're gonna go back to our roots, which is ridiculous. But if anybody knows, they also rebranded the company. They weren't making it about cars, which is weird because Jaguar is a car.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

But they were making it a lifestyle brand about inclusivity and modernity. You know, it wasn't even about the car anymore.

[Sean]

Right, right.

[Mossimo]

About a state. The.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And it was, it was so absurd that nobody got it.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

They forgot who their market was. Their market were, you know, older, influential, affluent people. Right. Like when you think of Jaguar, you think of, you know, your grandparents who had money or Johnny's grandparents who were rich or, you know, like who. These are. The. This is what comes to mind with Jaguar.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And again, this is not the target market. That when they see these bright, glamorous, you know, super pink clothing and the crazy hair and there wasn't even a car in the video. They even dropped the Jaguar icon. Oh. Which was the most. I mean, it was the most. In my opinion, next to the Stallion, it was the most recognizable car icon, big time. Okay. So again, the buyers from Jaguar, they, they wanted prestige, they wanted power. What they got were like a, A bunch of models that were dressed, you know, not like men, not like women, but kind of something completely out there and standing for everything but a car. Car itself.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Like they, they could have just been a completely flat brand. Needless to say, it tank. It tanked. And they've come back so much so.

[Sean]

That they've said they, they actually needed.

[Mossimo]

Admitted how that was it up. Right. Because again, nobody knew what the hell was going on. So the lesson here is they were trying to fake values that weren't, you know, weren't reflective of the actual company. Right, right. So you need to align the messaging with the real audience, you know, and their expectations, and especially in this case, the brand's DNA.

[Sean]

Yes, yes, the DNA.

[Mossimo]

So here's the thing. I know, right.

[Sean]

That's, that's it. Those three things, the DNA of the, of the brand.

[Mossimo]

Right. So here I think all three of these were, were when, you know, strategists, branders, the designers, of course, you know, I'm sure there was other layers of up. Of course, you know, and. Because nobody wanted to, you know, speak against any of this that was going on. But, you know, the reality here is I think they all got too caught up in, you know, current affairs. You know, what was hot, what was that? You know, kind of. And I don't want to say that it's hip hop to, to be inclusive. Right. That's just being human. But, yeah, there was such a bandwagon on it and attention on it. And I think they were trying to capitalize on the worst part or what they felt were the best parts. But by alienating their core audience.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

They. It backlashed a complete. Backfired.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Like, especially for if you're going to have a car ad and there's no cars in it. I mean, Jaguar is a pretty up there brand, but it used to be.

[Mossimo]

I mean, the cars were. They always. They're not reliable.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Mossimo]

No, I mean, they weren't reliable. Yeah, they, they, the cars had so many. So the funny thing is, it's like in my opinion, some of the most beautiful cars in history were Jaguars.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Beautifully designed. The brand stood for so much. But the funny thing is the cars itself, the product wasn't very, very good. It was, it wasn't reliable. It wasn't really known for, you know, crazy horsepower handling, but it was known for prestige. And that's the thing people believe bought them because they were prestigious. They stood for something. And apparently it's prestigious to have your car in the shop once a month.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And you know, like, apparently that's part of this whole allure. But that's the thing. Right.

[Sean]

And that goes even more to this up then if you're not even putting out a good product. But still, people, you, you, your brand is like up there.

[Mossimo]

Yeah. And I think that was, that was.

[Sean]

The way you do that.

[Mossimo]

Yeah. It was pretty nasty. Honestly, it's like, you know, it's hard to try to figure out. I. I can't speak for why brand strategists at this caliber, marketing people at this caliber, cmos at this caliber would. Would make these, these choices. Yeah, I can't speak to that because I'm not at that game, but I can speak to why designers tend to alienate the end user. Okay. And I, And I did. Right. Bringing it home first and foremost, and I hate to say this, we've always been trained to kiss the customer's ass, plain and simple. You know, we don't want to fight them, we don't want to argue with them. And, you know, unfortunately, that will never work to us being the expert if all we are are yes men. Yeah, I can't stand.

[Sean]

I know, I know.

[Mossimo]

You're.

[Sean]

You're definitely not that. Well, you will call out a client.

[Mossimo]

To my detriment, you know, and sometimes.

[Sean]

But it's true.

[Mossimo]

Right. But this is one of the reasons why, you know, we don't, we don't lose sight of who the End user is design schools, okay? They teach us how to make things look good, you know, how to make things. You know, they work on our. Our principles, but never really focus on the real world and the end user. The end user, okay? Because again, they're. They're teaching us the technical skills and layout and design and principles. Not once do they really focus on. Let's dig deep into the end user. You know, portfolios are often built to impress other designers. Okay.

[Sean]

When you.

[Mossimo]

And, I mean, you can go online and you can see, okay, Behance, Dribble, all these fucking platforms are not for end users. They're not for customers.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

They're for other designers to go in, upvote you, you know, dribbble. You can't even get an account on Dribble unless another designer refers you.

[Sean]

Really? Yes. So.

[Mossimo]

So right there. That's proof it's not even for the customer.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Purely for ego.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Mossimo]

Hate that. Yeah, I hate that.

[Sean]

That is brutal.

[Mossimo]

You know, unfortunately, the feedback that we get often comes from, you know, the. The. The guy writing the check, not necessarily the person who's gonna see the design or experience it on a daily basis. Right. You know, obviously, you know, we talk about this all the time. Designers often chase trends. They don't necessarily do homework. Okay. It's not very sexy. So it's easy to just kind of be something, be overlooked. You know, though, again, I've talked about this word, Personas, and I hate this buzzword because, you know, it's like, how do you make a human less human?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Come up with a fucking name. And let's not make it about the end user. Let's make it about a Persona.

[Sean]

Even the name sounds pretentious, doesn't it? Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Uxers, I tell you, you know. You know, of course we're rushed, we're underpaid. Yeah.

[Sean]

But.

[Mossimo]

But the thing is, even if we're rushed, underpaid, this is that one thing that shouldn't be skipped. This is true. This is true. Skip the word mapping, in my opinion. Right. Skip the mood boards if you have to.

[Sean]

There you go.

[Mossimo]

You need to obsess about that end user. Otherwise everything you're doing is for what it's for. Vanity.

[Sean]

Yep.

[Mossimo]

It's for the wrong reasons. And for all you know, it's not going to be on mark.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

And of course, you know, I hate to say this, but sometimes we completely skip the end user to feed our own ego. We see something hot and we're like, you know what? I gotta use that I gotta use that.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And we're all guilty.

[Sean]

Yes. I know. I did that a lot in my early career. Yes, yes. And feel guilty. Shame filled.

[Mossimo]

Honestly, in situations like this, the validation.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Of being like, I can do it. I can design something that looks kind of like Alan Peters. Like, you know, as opposed to. But the customer doesn't like it and the end user is completely wrong for.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

But I did something that I got inspired from our buddy Alan Peters.

[Sean]

That's right.

[Mossimo]

Love you, Alan. Nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with you.

[Sean]

No, no, no, no.

[Mossimo]

But honestly, I think ultimately what it comes down to is nobody ever really taught us on, you know, to give a. About the end user.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Okay. It's so far, you know, it's so far removed from everything that we've been taught. We, you know, we're still doing on a daily basis. Nobody ever talks about it. But in all fairness, like I said, design starts and ends with the end user. It's probably the most important part of the whole strategy session. Okay. And so again, when we're talking about evolving to strategy led designers, guys, we have to pay attention to, you know, the end user. Right. The end user. Because that's what design is about. To make the end. The end user's life better.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Not to make our customers life better.

[Sean]

Nope. Not to make your portfolio better.

[Mossimo]

Your portfolio look any better? To make the end user's life better.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

All right.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Mossimo]

So, you know, I kind of came up with some ideas here. Okay. How to design for the right audience. Okay. So these are. These are some things very high level. Okay. That I think people need to just kind of remember, re. Embrace. Kind of get back into things. Right. And again, there's nothing, you know, brainiac like here. These are all really basic. Right. Like, you know, first and foremost, you have to ask the most important question. Right. Who exactly is this job for?

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

When you get a job from a customer, you're not going to be frowned upon. If, you know, you ask the customer who's.

[Sean]

What are we doing here?

[Mossimo]

Who is this for? Yeah, I know this isn't for you. Sean. Yeah. Okay. You brought me here. Who's your customer? Sean.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Tell me about your customer. What do you know? Good opportunity. If they're like, well, I don't really know my customer. Guess what.

[Sean]

Yeah, Cha Ching.

[Mossimo]

Because then it's like, I'm gonna go find. I'm gonna find out for you and I'm gonna charge you. All of a sudden this. This discovery process just got bigger.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Mossimo]

Because that's the most important thing. Right. You need to learn about their values. You need to learn about the problems that they have, the languages they speak, the, the, the, the cultural languages they speak. Not just the actual ethnicity, Right. But like the, their street slang, their terms, their nuances, what their emotional drivers are. Okay. Like, and again, it's your job to understand these people and know exactly, you know, what, what, what makes them tick.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Because you need to connect with them, not with your customer.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

And all the better reason, right? When you know, you go and pitch. Remember the movie? Remember Mad Men?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. They never talk about the customer. They never talk about the customer's product.

[Sean]

No.

[Mossimo]

Right. He's always pitching about the woman at the end. You know, at the end of the day, she's busy all day. She is unappreciated. She needs to feel like a champ.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And your product does that, will do that. It makes her feel like.

[Sean]

Yeah, boom. That's true. Yeah, you're right.

[Mossimo]

And it's been lost. Okay.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

Honestly, if you can't, if you can't talk to the audience, which is very often the case. Right? Like, because again, focus groups, not often. Very correct.

[Sean]

Hit and miss. Yeah, yeah.

[Mossimo]

Right. And you know, and, and oftentimes I found from focus groups, they don't actually really give you the real answer. They give you what they think you want to hear or what makes them sound smart. They don't actually be honest. So, so it's okay if you actually don't have the ability to talk to the audience. Okay. Chat GPT is great.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

You can research the hell out of this. Okay. And if not for Chad, there's lots of ways online before chat that we used to research customers. Right? We used to dig deep and who are the end users? What are their likes? You know, what, what turns them on at night, you know, what makes them get scared, what makes them happy. Right. You know, you have the ability now, with all the tools that we have, to research the hell of this, this end user and come up with a profile that you are going to design to, to connect with them. Okay. You know, so then this way, when you're designing, you design with them in mind. Okay? Not what the industry says is cool. Not with the recommendations of what the customer says. You need to go in with a solid plan of what you're designing and why, based on the data that you're providing, based on what you found out about the end user. Because think about it, you know your customer, unless they know their customer better than you. Which is nice. If they do, that's great.

[Sean]

But that's not always the case.

[Mossimo]

Not always the case. Right. How do they argue with you? Right. They might not like ducks.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

But their end user might like.

[Sean]

Certainly like some. Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Right. Ultimately, you just need to learn how to speak their language.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Just visually. Okay. And make sure that what you're designing connects with them first, not necessarily with the customer, and definitely not for your other designer friends, because that's the worst place to go. Okay.

[Sean]

That's so bad. Yeah. Oh, geez.

[Mossimo]

And it happens all the time.

[Sean]

Yes. It's terrible.

[Mossimo]

For the record, I am glad that Beaumar has not rebranded for some sort of inclusive reason, you know, to people who have a more broader palette and they want to include everybody else, not just the people who appreciate good scotch. Good Pete. I appreciate that. All right.

[Sean]

Yes. Thank you, Beaumore.

[Mossimo]

All right, just a couple last points here.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Some red flags I wanted to leave with people. Okay. So red flags that you're actually not designing for the audience. And you know what? These are pretty straightforward. I think these are kind of like, no guff. Okay. But I mean, again, you know, if you're designing for what you think looks cool. Okay. Not necessarily. What. What works.

[Sean]

Yep.

[Mossimo]

That's a red flag.

[Sean]

That's a big red flag.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Again, because it's in about you.

[Sean]

Yes. It's not. Yeah, you're right.

[Mossimo]

You're. If you start looking to behance instead of customer behavior and customer tastes. Yeah. Kind of a red flag.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Okay.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

If you're avoiding, you know, ugly designs, but that might actually convert better. Boom. Okay.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Mossimo]

I hate to say this.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

This is a real thing. And I don't know if I mentioned this or, but years ago, we created this. This awesome landing page. And the whole point of this landing page was to get leads, insurance lead leads for the customer. The page was beautiful. It looked credible. It looked, you know, like, professional. And I was just like, yeah, this is good. It was only converting, like, and small percentage points. Very small. Under 5%. It was converting.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Mossimo]

Somebody inside that company ripped off some webpage somewhere, slapped together a landing page. It looked hokey, it looked bad. It looked cheap. It was converting almost five times more than ours was. What? In the end, we. We didn't do our research. The target market wasn't people who had money, who were fluent. It was people who were, like, bankrupt people who had bad credit. And if the page looked too good, they didn't even bother applying because they knew they were going to get Rejected. But when they see something that looks shady and is going to give them a deal and give them a better.

[Sean]

There'S a trust factor. It's like Wikipedia, right?

[Mossimo]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Like they, they have the whole thing, that ship site that they have, but they keep it like that just to, you know, unintentionally. Right. Yeah. It's intentionally to do that. Interesting.

[Mossimo]

I know. Wow.

[Sean]

So did you end up going with that? With their ugly look? Yeah. No.

[Mossimo]

We lost the job. Oh. In the end we got paid and they never used this again. They're like, we're just gonna get our guy.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

[Mossimo]

Yeah, it was pretty funny. That's a whole other topic I'll you tell together. But yeah, if, you know, Red flag, if you're, if you're chasing trends, you know, without actually asking, why am I designing it like this? Okay. You got to step back and figure out what, what are my intentions with every single design that I'm doing. Right. And most importantly, Red flag is if you are folding to your customers opinions, okay. That completely contradict the audience insights that, what you know. Okay. And what you've learned. But because they might be a strong willed CEO, they might be a marketing person with their own ego in check. Okay.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

This is a red flag that this might not actually work out the way you want it to.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

So just, you know what? These, every blank, every, every brand flops, okay. When they forget about who their core customer is.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

This doesn't mean that brands can't expand into new markets. It doesn't mean that brands can't, you know, expand into new audiences, but you can't neglect your existing core audience. And if, if 80% of your audience likes something that's A, you can't all of a sudden turn something upside down and offer them B, and expect that they're going to, they're going to love it because of your brand loyalty. Remember Cherry Coke?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And how much of a disaster that was. Okay, so again, big mistakes happen. Right. You know, again, this isn't about the client. This isn't about. This isn't about the client. This isn't about shareholders, okay. This isn't even about, you know, the, this is about the end user, okay. And it is because sometimes the customer, which is the, maybe the parent buying the toy is delivering that toy to somebody else who's an end user.

[Sean]

Okay?

[Mossimo]

This is who it's about. It's about actually the end. End user. You need to find ways to use your superpowers to connect with the end user. And this always starts with research on that customer. Find out their likes, find out everything. Because again, you know, stop trying to design for approval. Okay? Your customer's approval, your friend's approval, and start designing for that end user and to reach them and impact, because honestly, that will get the customer results and that'll get them coming back to you. They can always go and recreate something that looks better elsewhere if they don't like what you're proposing, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to perform better. And that's the most important thing. And people will remember that, right?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Because honestly, if the customer doesn't, if the end user doesn't feel or connect with what you're designing for, you know, well, then unfortunately your, your design is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. Yeah, right. And the only way you're going to do that is if you research your end user first. Okay. Start with your, your customer first and end with your customer.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Okay. So design is. Starts with the customer and ends with the customer.

[Sean]

Oh, yeah, geez.

[Mossimo]

That's. That, that's the whole thing.

[Sean]

This whole conversation was just summed up that way.

[Mossimo]

Just summed up that. Okay. Design starts and ends with the end user.

[Sean]

This could have been a 10 second podcast, ladies and gentlemen.

[Mossimo]

Yeah, fair enough. But then, then I wouldn't have been able to enjoy this bow more. Okay.

[Sean]

That's awesome. Yeah, that is absolutely. This, this is one of those things that we overlook a lot. And I'm guilty of it.

[Mossimo]

You know, I'm guilty of it.

[Sean]

I think the customer, the main customer, our customer is right. And they know what they're doing. Not always.

[Mossimo]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Sean]

Dig a little deeper.

[Mossimo]

You need to, you need to do your own homework.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

And that discovery phase, there's so many other. Again, if I see another, you know, oh, this is how I start my logo project. I do word maps and come up with fancy syllables and what are images that, you know, you think about when you think of your brand? What?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

What about your customer?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Mossimo]

Okay. Again, the CMO might be all about A, but the customer might be A completely different. They might be about B or C. Exactly. And again, worth exploring. It's our job because as designers, our job is to focus on that end user, not necessarily the customer. And that isn't doing the customer any sort of disservice.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Mossimo]

We need to remember that it's our job to step up and remind the customer. Yeah, I get that this is what you want, but is it what your customer wants?

[Sean]

Right.

[Mossimo]

Is this. Is this, in fact, you know, relate to your customer. So this is. This is the most important thing that I think is so overlooked in this space.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. You're right. This is. This is something that sometimes gets forgotten and lost in the sauce, which is unfortunate. Lost in the sauce somewhere.

[Mossimo]

Oh, that's a good one, though, being Italian tomato sauce.

[Sean]

There you go.

[Mossimo]

Okay.

[Sean]

That was good, man.

[Mossimo]

Okay, buddy. Well, I think that's it. I think. I think we're off now to a good weekend.

[Sean]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This. Let's do it.

[Mossimo]

All right, everybody. My name is Mossimo.

[Sean]

And my name is Sean. Stay creative and stay angry. Peace.