The Designer Mindset Shift That Changes Everything and How You're Falling Behind Without It

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer – "The Designer Mindset Shift That Changes Everything and How You're Falling Behind Without It"

Release Date: July 22, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Angry Designer, hosts Massimo and Sean delve deep into the transformative power of adopting a designer's mindset over an artist's approach. The discussion emphasizes how this shift not only enhances creative output but also safeguards designers against industry pitfalls and the evolving landscape of artificial intelligence (AI).

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1. Distinguishing Between Artist and Designer Mindsets

Massimo and Sean begin by exploring the fundamental differences between artists and designers. While both roles are rooted in creativity, their objectives and processes diverge significantly.

• Artist's Perspective: Artists often view their work as personal expressions, driven by emotion and self-expression. This can lead to challenges in objectively handling feedback, as critiques may feel like personal attacks. Massimo shares a personal anecdote from grade eight, illustrating his early inclination towards blending art with business elements:

  "I baked a logo, a big salamander. And I made this brand called Alexander Salamander. I gave it a headline, I created a logo, and I'm like, great." [02:14]

• Designer's Approach: In contrast, designers focus on solving specific problems for clients and end-users. This functional orientation fosters resilience against personal criticisms and emphasizes iterative improvements based on strategic objectives. Sean reinforces this by stating:

  "As a designer, you don't take feedback personally anymore because what you're creating isn't a personal expression of yourself." [04:04]

2. Embracing the Designer's Mindset

The hosts argue that adopting a designer's mindset is crucial for career growth and relevance in the creative industry. This mindset shift encompasses several key traits:

• Empathy for the End User: Designers prioritize understanding the needs, preferences, and pain points of the target audience. This user-centric approach ensures that designs are not only aesthetically pleasing but also effective in achieving their intended purpose.

• Strategy Over Style: Designers begin with a clear strategy, ensuring that every design element aligns with the overarching goals. As Massimo quotes Steve Jobs:

  "Design isn't about what it looks like but how it works." [16:23]

• Iterative Process: Emphasizing rapid iteration and feedback, designers avoid getting attached to initial concepts. This flexibility allows for constant refinement and adaptation, leading to superior final products.

3. Six Steps to Developing a Designer's Mindset

Massimo outlines a six-step framework for designers aiming to cultivate this strategic approach:

1. Start with the Why: Before any creative work begins, understand the core problem you're solving.

   "Always designers have to start with the why. Always with the why. You have to ask, what is the problem that we're here to solve today?" [30:00]

2. Define Your Audience: Identify and comprehend the end users, not just the clients. This deep understanding guides the design process to align with user needs.

   "You need to define who you're designing for so you know the problem." [31:00]

3. Clarify Success Metrics: Establish clear criteria for what constitutes a successful project outcome. This ensures that both designer and client have aligned expectations.

   "Clarify, with your customer, what success looks like for this project." [32:57]

4. Sketch Ugly and Iterate Fast: Embrace rough drafts and multiple iterations to explore various solutions quickly. This approach fosters creativity within constraints.

   "Sketch ugly and iterate fast. Three rough outlines are better than one polished one." [34:21]

5. Kill Your Darlings: Be ruthless in eliminating design elements that don't serve the project's objectives, regardless of personal attachment.

   "You kill your darlings. If it doesn't work, no matter how cool it is, you gotta table it." [35:13]

6. Present with Logic, Not Emotion: When showcasing designs to clients, focus on the strategic reasoning behind decisions rather than personal preferences.

   "When you present to the customer, you present with logic, not with emotion." [35:57]

4. Navigating the Rise of AI in Design

A significant portion of the episode addresses the impact of AI on the design industry. Massimo posits that while AI poses challenges, it also offers unprecedented opportunities for designers who embrace it as a tool rather than a threat.

• AI as a Designer's Ally: Unlike artists, who may view AI as encroaching on their personal expressions, designers can leverage AI to enhance their workflow. Massimo asserts:

  "AI was built for designers. It enhances what we do, superpowers our abilities." [24:25]

• Human Oversight Remains Crucial: AI-generated designs still require human input to align with specific problems and objectives. The strategic thinking and empathy designers bring cannot be replicated by AI alone.

  "AI needs our input. It can't replace us because it needs somebody to lead it." [27:11]

• Artists vs. Designers in the AI Era: While artists may struggle with AI's replication of their personal style, designers remain indispensable by focusing on functionality and user-centric solutions. Massimo emphasizes:

  "If you think like an artist and design out of feelings and emotions, AI will eventually replicate your final product. But if you think like a designer, focusing on solving problems, AI will be a tool that complements your work." [38:17]

5. Ensuring Relevance and Value in a Changing Landscape

To stay ahead, designers must continuously evolve their mindset and embrace new technologies. Massimo and Sean encourage designers to:

• Adopt a Process-Oriented Approach: By following structured steps and focusing on strategic objectives, designers can produce work that remains valuable and relevant, regardless of technological advancements.

• Leverage AI Without Losing the Human Touch: Integrate AI tools to streamline processes and enhance creativity without compromising the empathetic and problem-solving aspects of design.

• Maintain Continuous Learning: Stay updated with industry trends and technological developments to remain competitive and innovative.

6. Conclusion: The Unstoppable Value of the Designer's Mindset

Massimo and Sean conclude by reiterating the paramount importance of the designer's mindset in building a sustainable and rewarding career. By prioritizing strategy, empathy, and iterative improvement, designers not only enhance their creative output but also ensure their relevance in an AI-driven future.

"By thinking like a designer and acting like a designer, AI will never be able to replace you. It will work alongside you as a tool, but you can't get replaced." [38:17]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "I baked a logo, a big salamander. And I made this brand called Alexander Salamander. I gave it a headline, I created a logo, and I'm like, great." – [02:14] Massimo
• "As a designer, you don't take feedback personally anymore because what you're creating isn't a personal expression of yourself." – [04:04] Sean
• "Design isn't about what it looks like but how it works." – [16:23] Steve Jobs (quoted by Massimo)
• "Always designers have to start with the why. Always with the why." – [30:00] Massimo
• "You kill your darlings. If it doesn't work, no matter how cool it is, you gotta table it." – [35:13] Massimo
• "AI was built for designers. It enhances what we do, superpowers our abilities." – [24:25] Massimo
• "If you think like a designer, focusing on solving problems, AI will be a tool that complements your work." – [38:17] Massimo

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Key Takeaways:

1. Mindset Matters: Transitioning from an artist's to a designer's mindset fosters resilience, adaptability, and strategic thinking.
2. User-Centric Design: Prioritizing the end user's needs ensures that designs are not only beautiful but also functional and effective.
3. Embrace Iteration: Rapid prototyping and continuous improvement are essential for achieving high-quality outcomes.
4. Leverage AI Wisely: Designers should view AI as a powerful tool that enhances their capabilities, not as a replacement.
5. Strategic Communication: Presenting designs with logical reasoning strengthens client relationships and project success.

By internalizing these principles, designers can elevate their careers, deliver impactful work, and remain indispensable in an ever-evolving creative landscape.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry chaos, ditch the social BS and build badass, rewarding careers that actually pay now. Powered by WIX Studio. Oh, if anybody cares, we're still drinking some of that Beaumore black. This bottle is just, it's such a treat. It's such a treat. I'm digging this.

[B]

It's very nice. And you have your own personal stash at home too. You were saying?

[A]

Well, because again, we're, you know, I'm still, you know, neglected of, of Bourbon. Yeah, I want my damn bourbon and camp. So I'm slowly starting to.

[B]

Stupid.

[A]

Stupid. So other things people could do to get their mind off of this kind of malarkey that we're dealing with is potentially art.

[B]

Oh, a lot of people do that. When Covid, I bet you that kind of went up, went through the roof.

[A]

Right.

[B]

All kinds of crafts.

[A]

I got a daughter and she's like, she had like a, you know, that she wanted to convert our, our iPad this weekend into her drawing tablet. Oh. You know, so we got like the pen, the pencil. It's really cool. And I suck. You know, I, I, I give art. You know, artist is one of those things. Being an artist is one of those things that you always think it's a romantic thing that you think, oh, long term, it'd be great to retire and just paint paintings. As a retired old, you know, gray haired person, you know, looking on some countryside or whatever. It's this funny view. And, and so I envy artists who can do it their whole lives. Man. I have been a designer so long, like, it's the only thing I know how to do. I can't, I would, I don't even know where to start.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm a designer. Yeah. And oddly, I can cartoon.

[B]

Well, you can cartoon.

[A]

I can, I can do doodles and cartoons. You know, I got four kids, so you have to entertain them one way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to kind of draw cartoons. Not too bad at that. But I mean, again, it's like I, I envy people like James Victoria, who can keep kind of flipping and he can do commercial work, but he's still very much an artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and there's so many artists that we've met and the heroes I have, but man, I suck. It's a hard way of going about it. I think back to some of the shit even at a young age. I remember being like in grade eight. Okay. And you know, we had to draw an athlete whose arts class we had to draw an athlete doing something. And I was like, okay, well, I wanted to do a snowboarder because that was my thing. But I couldn't just do a snowboarder. I had to do a snowboarder in the air, the bottom of his snowboard. I baked a logo, a big salamander. And I made this brand called Alexander Salamander. I gave it a headline, I created a logo, and I'm like, great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because again, even then, I wasn't just thinking artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's such a different. And so it's. It's hard for me to back up and to think more like an artist and to remove the business side. Again, you know, I. I see something, first thing that goes to my mind is, how do we turn that into a business?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, or how can we scale this and how do we make this even better? It's. It's a sickness. But this episode, like, I mean, because was it last week or two weeks ago, we did an episode about how the artist mindset is, you know. Yeah, it is. And, and, and, you know, it got a lot of reaction. A lot of people got pissed and rocked over it because they're like, oh, a designer can be an artist. And I'm like, I. You know, like, there's. So maybe it's like saying a car can be a motorcycle. Well, they're both modes of transportation.

[B]

They get you the same thing, you.

[A]

Know, very different animals, but they different.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And that's, you know, and it's not saying that design can't be beautiful. Right. Because it is. It's totally beautiful. And when it, when it's done well, you know, it looks fantastic and it performs fantastic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I think that's, like the difference that people need to. To keep realizing, like, there are some huge differences between the two. And, and so that, you know, we focused on the whole artist mindset, and I thought, you know, for this episode, you know, let's focus on the designer mindset. How to embrace an actual designer mindset. Because I've come to the conclusion that, you know, if I'm going to be old and gray with an art painting easel, you know, looking out at a field.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's probably going to have words on.

[B]

It like Alexander Salamander.

[A]

It's true. Right. I've succumbed that. But there's so much to this. Right. Like, you know, again, when. When you're a designer. Right. I mean, when you embrace the whole idea that you're a designer, one thing that happens is you don't take feedback personally anymore. Right. And it's true. I mean, you know, we talked that whole episode. We talked because I got pissy about some feedback and I took it personally. But the thing is, if you genuinely embrace being a designer, okay, you know, it's not personal, because what you're creating isn't a personal expression.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of yourself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they may not like your execut or the direction you went with it, but in no way is it any sort of a personal attack on you. Right. Whereas an artist, you know, this. This is a different animal. Yeah, it's a different animal. Right. Because for an artist, it comes from within what you're creating. Right, Right. Where for a designer, you know, it's not necessarily about a feeling, but it's more a function.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of it. And that's a big difference.

[B]

I always look at it like if someone tells you as a design, a design, it sucks. I don't like that. That means there's no mass appeal to it, which is exactly what we want. So I take that as thank you. That is good feedback.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I would much rather know something that people are going to love across the board.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, and that. And that's another thing, right. Designers take feedback, okay. They take it. And to improve what they're doing, to improve that, they're. Can you imagine an artist halfway through a painting, you know, somebody comes up and is like, you know, I think it needs to be a little bit more blue.

[B]

Is that the color you're going to go with?

[A]

Like, again, it would be shit. Where, you know, for us, yeah, we thrive on iteration.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Right. And it's, it's, it's part of our process. Right. You know, if you start embracing the designer mindset, you can charge more. Duh. Right. Because again, it's, you know, how many times do people always use the crutch of, oh, I'm an artist, I'm, you know, I'm a creative, I can't, I can't charge for it. And it's like, no, you're not thinking about this as, you know, an actual job. You're taking this. And that's not what we do. Designers get paid because we're not creating things because they come from within. Right. We're creating things to solve a problem for the customer. Well, now, if it's solving a problem, something that's tangible, the customer can see value in that and will pay for that exact big difference.

[B]

Exactly. And pay again for that.

[A]

And pay again if they. Yeah, yeah, on a retainer basis.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So before we get into this a little bit, you know, too much, I just want to do a quick shout out, guys. We've got an awesome newsletter that I don't promote enough. It's called Anger Management for Designers. You know, we're giving you tips every week. Once a week. That's all it is. We give you a tips. You know, we got a comic in there, we've got, you know, AI prompts in there, honestly. And it's just, it's more of this. Just an email forward. Yeah. So please, you know, you can sign up on that on our. On our socials, it's on our website, wherever you go. Okay. It's there. Okay. Anger Management for Designers. All right, let's get on with this.

[B]

All right.

[A]

As a designer, you kind of break away from revision. How? Yeah, okay. It's not to say that, you know, you're not going to get revisions in your job.

[B]

Yeah, you are. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. There's no question about that. But again, we set the direction of, you know, what it is that we're creating. Right. We have reasons for choosing what we are. Okay. Versus, okay, you know, creating revisions based on something completely aesthetic. Because if it's. If you're an artist and you create something only because it looks good and everything you chose on there is because, you know, it wasn't because it was on brand, it wasn't because it was on target, it wasn't because it was for the end users. You're just creating it because it's cool.

[B]

Just because it's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. That would create like creative. Creatively led projects have the worst revision cycles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, as a designer, your projects are always strategically led. And because they're strategically led, okay. You've got a process to put everything, all your, all your ducks in order. Right. Right in. Or, you know, in order to achieve that goal. So your rev revisions, although we all get revisions from customers, they're generally business related. They're focused on. It's never about just.

[B]

It's never a wide, it's never a left turn, rarely a left, rarely right. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, you've missed the market.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You really have? Yeah, it's more of a whoa, I'm getting close to the edge here now. I gotta get back into the middle of the road kind of thing.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's interesting.

[A]

And then, and then I think, you know, a big, big, you know, benefit of thinking like a designer, especially long term. Okay. And I'M not saying that this is a blanket case for all artists, but as a designer, you're taken a lot more seriously.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. When someone like Michael Beirut walks into a place like Google. Okay, people, stop, listen, right? Because he's got. He speaks about ux, he speaks about design principles, right? Everything is a why, why we do this versus if someone like cause was to go into Google. Don't get me wrong, everybody would fawn over the guy, coolest artist ever, but they wouldn't ask him for business advice. And that's what I mean by It's a whole. It'd be. It's cool factor. Almost celebrity like. But again, they're not flocking to Brad Pitt on, you know, what should their next investment be either. I was gonna say Delonghi coffee makers. Right. So, I mean, there are definitely benefits from embracing more of a designer mindset versus, you know, the art. And that's why I thought this was a good episode, because, you know, there's no question through and through, I'm a designer. I'm gonna be. I can't. I'm trying to be an artist, and it's not working.

[B]

You need a brief for your art.

[A]

A what?

[B]

A brief.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

Yes. This is why we can't do this anymore.

[A]

Because as a designer, we thrive.

[B]

You give me a pencil and do whatever you want. I'm like, I don't know.

[A]

And you know what? I'm so used to working in constraints, I. I need that. If somebody has to come up to me and be like, no, you can only do art with using black and white charcoal, and it has to be based on a skateboard theme at nighttime on this. Then I'd be like, okay, let me try something.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But because it's this whole open, scary world, I don't fucking know where to start.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Like, it's. And oddly, I keep leaning towards fonts, and I keep looking, you know, I'm. You know, I look to stuff like our buddy James Victoria, and I'm like, well, that feels right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it's.

[B]

What?

[A]

I know. It's graphic design, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But again, so. So that's the thing we. We. I feel I would excel in under constraints, where as an artist, I think is more open and vivid. So that's a huge difference between the two. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Other differences. Right. Designers always make things for other people. Okay. Always True. Our whole. Our whole existence is thinking about other people first.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where, let's face it, artists, that whole world is. Is opposite. It's all about making things for themselves and being expressive. And it doesn't mean it doesn't have to have a purpose.

[B]

It's true. Yeah.

[A]

You can create something for a cause, for a reason, you know, a political statement, education statement, whatever. Right.

[B]

Yeah, there's a. There's an I like it, but I don't give a fuck if you do it. Right.

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, again, very big difference there. Right. We. We tend to look for real problems to solve. Okay. Well, let's face it, you know, like, artists don't really, you know, care about, you know, problems unless it's like, you know, famine or something. And they're creating something to raise awareness, but that's not necessarily, you know, representative of all artists. Okay, so, yeah, maybe we're a little bit of generalizing here. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, when it comes to design, you know, you can be like, you know, you know, a project is done okay. When it actually works, it does what you've designed it for. Exactly where an artist is done, when they say they're done. Okay, I'm done. One more splotch of paint and that's it. Like, again, we, you know, it's. It's a very different kind of mind spat. Inspiration versus, you know, we look for objectives.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, again, it's. We're two different worlds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, being a designer, you know, there's definitely the advantages of being a designer, just, in my opinion, are just. They're endless, mainly because we get paid.

[B]

Yeah, there's, there's. That's a big deal. But to me, it's the mass appeal. That's, that's what I like. If something, if, like you think of, I don't know, the most famous painting in the world versus the Apple logo. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's. Wow, such a.

[A]

Think about that.

[B]

Compare it, right? Like maybe, maybe the Mona Lisa, I don't know.

[A]

But let's, let's compare the two ubiquitous.

[B]

What's more, people are more aware of.

[A]

You know, it's funny because. Which, okay, ready? Which is valued more. I guarantee you there's a higher dollar figure associated to the Apple logo than there is to the Mona Lisa.

[B]

Well, it's a trillion dollar company.

[A]

But even the logo itself, recently, something that came out and it was, oddly enough, somebody had actually bought the rights to the Commodore 64. Commodore company. I thought it was great. But in watching that, they, they actually put a value on the Apple logo itself, like an actual value, and it was close to a billion dollars. Like what? That logo. Like, you know the, like the physical value of that. Yeah, I don't. And as much as the Mona Lisa is worth, I don't think it's worth a billion dollars, you know, so is that. That's an interesting take.

[B]

I would just. I mean, to me, I think that's sexier than. But you know what I mean?

[A]

But it's like 100%.

[B]

Because, again, because it's. There's. There's that simplistic, like you can get detailed right down to shit with the artist, whereas we are not allowed that. And it's kind of frowned upon to have.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

See the original Apple logo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trying to pass that off today.

[A]

No, that's not going to work. And that's only worth about a quarter. Exactly. But you're absolutely right. There's a mass appeal to what it is that we do that's. And it reaches people and, you know, and, and, and how we create things to make people act.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And that's. Yes. Where art generally only tries to make people feel something, feel what the artist wants them to feel.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Sometimes it works.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes it doesn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes people cringe or frown. Sometimes they're like, oh, yeah, that's pretty cool. But I think very, very rarely do they feel what the artist feels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Which is interesting because that's why you got curators explaining the art. And once they explain it, people like, oh, I get it, I get it.

[B]

Whereas you see an Apple logo, you get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, if we do our job right, people automatically act and they get it. They're persuaded to do something. Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, so there is, you know, that's. That's a huge difference. There are definitely some core traits, you know, for being a designer that I think, you know, to embracing. To being a designer, embracing this kind of mindset. Right. And, you know, it's things like, you know, empathy. Right. We, what we do, again, is always for the end user. It's not about our own ego.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. It's not what we like. It's not about. It's not necessarily about our personal taste. Not to say that certain people won't choose certain designers over others for their taste.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it's still that. That designer is only good if they can execute against an objective. Okay. So again, it's. It's not necessarily about what we like in our personal, you know, taste, but about what they need in the end.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Steve Jobs had a quote, and it was, design isn't about what it looks but how it works.

[B]

How it works.

[A]

So again, it's. It's a. It's a total. It is. And it's. Again, that whole company excelled when they came back and they took design seriously when Steve Jobs came back and brought design for the end user. So again, there's a huge trait, right? Another trait is that designers put strategy over style, okay? And again, we never start with what looks cool, okay? Because that's not what this is about. We always start with the end goal. What is it that they're trying to achieve? Okay, What. What is it, you know, we never think about actually, you know, how great something's going to look. That's just the byproduct. And the better it works, the better something looks. Because all of a sudden it's just like, wow, that was the best fucking website ever. Because it actually worked for once, right? So again, we. We tend to think about, you know, the end result and what that goal is. Right? Because again, being a designer means everything that we should do is always led with strategy first. Okay? Strategy first, then design comes later.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay. Massimo Vignelli had a great quote about this, okay? He said the correct relationship between design and art is that design is utilitarian and art is not. And this is Massimo Vignelli. Okay? So this is one. And again, it perfectly describes what it is that we do as a designer. Right?

[B]

Design for the people.

[A]

Yeah, it's exactly it, dude.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

That's actually really cool. That'd be a good company. That'd be a cool name.

[B]

Yeah, that would be.

[A]

All right. Another core trait, you know, of having a designer mindset, okay, is we've already talked about this. It's within your constraints, you will find creativity.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. You purposely try to limit yourself more and more and more in order to achieve a better product in the end. Right? Because again, you start taking away things if you have to. You start, you know, reducing your timeline. You start limiting your fonts, limiting your colors, and that's where you seek true creativity. Okay? Again, the worst thing you can tell a designer is do whatever you want, do whatever. This. This comes down to something called Parkinson's Law, okay? And it's a UX law, which UX came from. Don't care what you say. But anyway, Parkinson's Law says work expands to fill the time available. Okay? Great. Design happens when time and space are limited. Oh, okay. So it's right there.

[B]

Yeah, it's a law. It's Parkinson's Law.

[A]

So you know that.

[B]

So the less time you have, the Better always. It is always. Yeah, I would agree with that.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, face it, we do it to ourselves.

[B]

Annoyingly, we're terrible. Right.

[A]

If I tell you I need something next Friday, you're not going to start till Wednesday. No, if I'm lucky, I know who you work. Yeah, that's true. You know, designer mindset. Okay. We iterate, we don't worship what we created. Okay. First, first draft is never the final product. Okay. Very rarely do you create something so good customers like, yeah, wow, good. It's good to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It has happened.

[B]

And I was, I'm always concerned when I have to reach out to people. It's like, did this work? Are you using this? They're like, yeah, it's fine.

[A]

But it's true, right? Like versioning fast, you know, and getting different iterations of what it is to create is how we get to that place. Okay. Which is a huge difference. And it's okay. I'm a big believer of sending customers work earlier. Yeah, okay. Testing it out, getting feedback earlier. And you know, obviously customers can't visualize like we do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And that's something that, you know, designers have to realize, unfortunately. But you get them the, you get them stuff earlier instead of trying to perfect it right. They're going to get it back, get real world results and then you keep iterating and iterating until you get that final product. Right. Versioning faster and improves faster.

[B]

Okay, and now a word from our sponsor.

[A]

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[B]

So if as you suck, you realize you're getting better, as right as you.

[A]

Kind of go, keep shifting, right, you're like, I'm going to put a blue button on there and I. Sorry, a button is just a simple bad example. But I'm saying blue button doesn't work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, well then let's change it to red. Oh, shit. There's an increase.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Boom. Exactly right. So you have to get to bad before you know how good you can get to. Right.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

It's really cool. That's a really cool way of thinking about it.

[B]

Yeah, that's heavy.

[A]

And a designer mindset is about communicating, not decorating.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Design is the art of persuasion. Okay. I love that. Okay. It's not about style points. Okay. And the thing is, what we do, everything a designer does has some sort of action associated to it. Okay. And that's what people need to realize. If you're a designer, it isn't about making something look pretty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what art's for. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The things that we create have to do something. Whether it's, you know, generate a lead, whether it's, get people through the door, whether it's, you know, introduce a whole new brand or a whole new market. There is something intentful that we have to create and that's the difference. That's how everything we do is supposed to communicate. Even if it's just a beautiful brand poster with a. The smallest logo or maybe even just like, you know, the product shot, you know, with the logo on the product. But again, even brand awareness ads have to communicate the brand.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So again, there's. There's always some sort of persuasion aspect to everything we do. I like that Dieter Ram said. He said good design is as little design as possible. Right. And this, this is true, right? We know this, right? What often looks, you know, easy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really complicated.

[B]

Very.

[A]

To achieve.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Really though, um, design really is about, you know, persuasion. It's not about making things look pretty. Okay. And I think that's why I have always said that, you know, like, designers don't have to worry about AI, okay? We. We don't have anything to fear about it. I personally still feel that AI was. Was built, was created for fucking designers, right? Because again, you know, AI might generate the content. It might generate things that look good, okay? And do it really quick and do it tirelessly and not, you know, and not. Not hate us or cry to us about it. Right? It'll do that. But the thing is, it still needs our input.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. It still needs, you know, the problem we're trying to achieve. Right? That prompt would have to be, like, very descriptive about what the goals are. Let's find the problems. It's our tool, and that's how we use it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Artists, on the other hand, I can see why they get really pissed off. Like, artists can go crazy about AI, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I could see that. Yeah.

[A]

Right? And. And at first I was like, guys, just stop complaining. Whatever. Right? Like, yeah, I took. It took artists, you know, they used, you know, you know, artist examples, you know, to create these learning language models. And I get it, right? But the reason I think why they're pissed off about it is because artists see what they do, okay, as a direct extension of who they are, of themselves, right? Their emotions, their style, their tone, right? So when AI like, scrapes and replicates, you know, their shit, their style, you know, you know, for inspiration, right? They feel like it's plagiarism, okay? And this is why, you know, for them, they get so pissed and irate about it, you know, And I get that after going through this whole concept and realizing the differences between the two, right? They low they. Because it attacks their identity. It attacks who they are and replicates it without any feelings.

[B]

Yeah, right?

[A]

And again, that would be the end of the world for an artist, okay? Where, you know, designers, shit, we take AI, we fucking embrace it. Open arms. Or we should.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it enhances what we do, right? This is it. Superpowers, our abilities. Because our abilities aren't just in that final end product, okay? And that's what people need to remember. It's the process to get to there. And that's the part that, you know, sure, AI probably could do if people had enough information to prompt it properly, to put it in place, to add all those elements in there. But let's face it, the customer is not going to do that. The customer has no idea what to pull in. They have their own shit to do in their business. This is true, right? They Got there. Just because they can add, does that mean they're going to do their fucking accounting? I can use a calculator.

[B]

So I don't, I don't need you guys.

[A]

I don't need you. Stop being so stupid, okay? This is not. The clients don't have an interest. They might think it's cool, they might think it's a toy, but then they're going to get bored and realize everything else.

[B]

And there's other work. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Real designers, they realize that AI is a tool, Right? Because yeah, it can create, it can iterate. Right. But it can't do that extra step, the pre step to those two things, which is what we do, which is why we. We've always got a place. Okay? Yeah, we've always got a place. And AI will just be our tool and just superpower everything that we do. Okay. And customers will need us to keep coming back over and over and over.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If the AI actually makes you feel irreplaceable, then your mindset is of an artist, it's not of a designer. So you're already thinking of yourself in the wrong way. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay. That's heavy. Yeah, we gotta embrace that shit. But I would be a little pissed off if I was an artist and somebody was cranking out stuff AI of mine.

[A]

It absolutely can. But you know, one thing that, One thing that you want a little bit.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

One thing, though, that, that I think artists need to realize is. Yeah. You know, like, you know, I could buy a print from somebody that, you know, I, I saw it at like, I don't know, fan expo or something. Right. Or, you know, like an original print or I can photocopy my own. But if I'm going to go and. Sorry, if I'm going to go and AI generate my own version of it, I'm not the customer who's going to pay for that print.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they won't make a penny off me anyway.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They make a penny off people who appreciate the artist, the person behind the print, the person who made the print. That's why everything that I own from an artist has to be signed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if somebody's going to rip off their shit. Well, you know what? They were never a customer of theirs anyway. They obviously appreciated that artist style so much they're trying to replicate it themselves.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. They were never going to buy from them anyway.

[B]

Right. So it's almost a flattery well.

[A]

And I think they need to realize that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because again, if somebody's going to be good generating that that's the same person that would probably take their iPhone and snap a picture of a piece of art at a museum and then print it out themselves and hang it on their wall. Artists, they don't get pissed off about that. So don't. You know, that's true.

[B]

That is. That is a good point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Interesting. I never looked at it that way.

[A]

So, all in all, I think what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference between the way designers think and artists think. And if people want to embrace a designer's mindset. Okay. A little bit more, our process, how we go about things. Right. I've got a small list here, like, six things that I think that we should do. You know, what people should do to embrace more of how we think, you know, towards our customers, towards our work, towards our jobs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I think that this will give people a really good, solid understanding of how to actually get to that next step. Right. Like, number one, always designers have to start with the why. Always with the why. Okay. You have to ask, what is the problem that we're here to solve today? Okay. We don't even pick up, you know, a mouse. We don't open up Adobe in any way. We don't do anything until we start digging for that problem. Why is it that you want a brochure? I'm here because you want a brochure. But why? You know, what's wrong with your website? Like, what is the problem? And this is where you have to dig. Right? You don't want to create a brochure because we need a brochure. We want you to build a brochure because we're going to a trade show, and we want to give it to people so we can get leads. So lead generation is the problem. And now our brochure has to create that. And then while you're there, shit, upsell them. Create a contest. Create something else. Get other ways to find them. Leads. The problem is leads.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The brochure is just one of many ways to get them. Right. Same with the logos. Same with websites.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have to find out first and foremost what the why is in every ask that a customer has. And if you just take that ask and go away and design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Artist mindset. Artist mindset.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're taking this, you're getting all black, big metal kind of letters and stuff like that. And it's for a bridal show, right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Little wrong there. I should have asked that question in the beginning. Damn it.

[A]

If you just jump to the creative.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know that you.

[A]

You've got to ask these questions, and guess what? AI is coming for your job, coming.

[B]

For you big time.

[A]

Okay, number two, the next step. You have to define who you're designing for so you know the problem. You know the problem that you have to solve. You asked enough questions, you've dug deep. Now you have to define who it is that you're designing this for. Okay? You got to figure out who that end user is, not who your customer is. Okay, that's irrelevant. In all fairness, other than the fact that they cut the check and you know they're going to give you more work in the future. But in all fairness, during this process, they are irrelevant. It is their customer that you need to obsess over. You need to think, you know, who are they? What's their problems? What do they like? What do they hate? What scares them at night? What kind of food do they like? And as ridiculous as this sounds, these are all questions that you know about that end person. You need to know in order to create something that's going to motivate those people. Okay? So again, if you want to, you know, reach people who, you know, hate chocolate, well, you don't want to have a chocolate bar in the back corner or that person in your ad holding a chocolate in any which way before. Do you know what I mean? And it sounds ridiculous, but it is so true. Yeah, right? Because that would turn people off, and it just. That little thing would make a huge difference.

[B]

Yeah, big time.

[A]

All right, number three, you got to clarify, okay, with your customer what success looks like for this project.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Okay? So I know what the problem is. I know who the customers are. So if I do my job right, what does success look like for you? Okay, you know, how do we know that what I created works? Okay? And nobody asks that because they're scared. Ask that. But in order to design something that's going to perform for the customer, you got to figure out, what is it that you want to see happen. Do you want signups on your website? Do you want people to give you a lead at a trade show? Do you want them to fill out a form? Do you just want to make them feel good about your brand?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay? You need to find out what success looks like, and if you can measure it, even better.

[B]

Even better.

[A]

Yeah, even better.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

So right off the bat, those are three things, and you haven't even started designing yet. You haven't even put pen to paper and started getting Creative. Okay. And people don't realize there is so much work to do ahead of time in order to create something that will persuade people to. To do what? You know, what the intended, the intent is.

[B]

Okay, yeah.

[A]

Then number four. Okay. Then you sketch ugly and you iterate fast. I'm not recommending, you know, like, make all your characters look like mad. Mad characters, Mad magazine characters. But, you know, I mean, what I'm saying in this case is three basic, you know, rough outlines is better than one nice polished one.

[B]

This is true. Yeah.

[A]

We wireframe everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. We want to get things to them early so we can get feedback early and see if this is in the right direction and if it has a chance. Okay. This, this at an early stage really is about quantity. It's not about quality of one specific piece. If you put all your heart and soul in that one concept and for whatever reason you missed the mark on that, you're done.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Right, you're done.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So again, worry about refining it later. Okay. The idea here is sketch and sketch fast and get it out there over and over and over. Okay?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Number five. Okay. Next thing you do. And this is actually from Paul Rand. You kill your darlings, as he would call it. Okay. So you're coming up with concepts, you're coming up with ideas, and be ruthless. You gotta cut that shit. Don't defend. Don't defend something because it's cool looking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. If it doesn't work, if it doesn't meet the objective, no matter how cool it is, you gotta table that for some other use. And I know that sucks to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're like, oh, this looks so great. I wish they'd pick it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's for the wrong reasons. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you are trying to create something that's going to persuade people to act, then you need to, you know, you need to follow this formula and you can't be scared, you know, to detach yourself from the layouts that they don't necessarily work. Okay. Because again, you've got to detach yourself from that ego part of this. Okay. And that's what people need to forget. You know, you're a designer. Okay. So design for the end user and designed to make something work, not to make something only look good.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's an artist mindset.

[B]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

And then last but not least, when you present to the customer, you present with logic, not with emotion. And I can't stress this enough. Okay. You don't be like, oh, you know, I. I chose this Font face, this type face, because it's hot right now, and I like it a lot. It's really cool. And I've given it to a couple of my customers, and it's had great success. You need to be like, we chose this typeface because it's a serif type face, and that ensues trust in people when they look at that. Serifs are often used in the financial industry, and so, you know, this tie with your company makes you feel like you're credible and you're trustworthy. You know, this, these. This is the logic. It's never about you.

[B]

It's not an emotional thing.

[A]

It's not an emotional thing. It's logic. And it's hard. It's extremely hard for customers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To contest logic. You know, we chose blue because you're a tech company. Blue is a very positive, you know, popular tech company. And I get it, you want to try something different. So we'll. We'll throw pink in there as an accent color.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But blue is a good, solid base, and, you know, it works. And that's what our, you know, we need to work right now. Right. Never, ever, ever talk about. You love how things look, or you want to do something because they look cool or they're trending. It's never about you.

[B]

It's.

[A]

You present with logic. And it's hard for them to. It'll always be hard for them to.

[B]

Yeah, big time. Oh, that's.

[A]

So these are just six, you know, six basic ways just to get to that pit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Just to get to there. After that, your designers, you know that, you know the process. And after this, it goes into, you know, revisions and this and that, and you've already got that in place. But if you want to develop a designer's mindset, okay, you know, if you want better pay, if you want more respect, okay, you need to embrace having a more design centric mindset in everything you do. You got to stop thinking like an artist and stop, you know, thinking with, you know, feelings and emotions and presenting them that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And that's the problem, right? By thinking like a designer and acting like a designer and presenting like a designer, okay, AI will never be able to replace you. Okay? AI will work alongside you. It'll be a tool. It'll be part of your arsenal, but you can't get replaced.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But if you think like an artist and you just design out of feelings and emotions and you're only focused on that end result, well, it's only a matter of time that, you know, somebody's going to realize that there's an easy way to prompt your final product out for them big time. So I think. I think this is the right way for people to start thinking in their space.

[B]

Totally. Yes. Yeah. This is good. I like that.

[A]

Well, and again, it's. I think it's just. It's just a. It's a mindset that needs to be embraced by more people, and it's a realization because once you start realizing what a designer actually does, you start realizing that AI won't affect us. Like some people think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They might, you know, replace certain elements of our job. It definitely makes certain parts of our job a hell of a lot easier and faster.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. But it's can't replace us because it needs somebody to lead it. And if there's one thing we know, it's people. And if we know customers. Okay. We know that they are not going to take it upon themselves to learn AI enough to prompt them a result. Okay. It's going to happen in little spurts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People are going to be interested.

[B]

Some people will raise the bar a little.

[A]

A little bit. Some will be more interested in it.

[B]

I go back to your point that you said earlier, they all have fucking jobs to do. They're not going to monkey around with this kind of stuff because it's not. It's as easy as it sounds. Type some shit into it. It's not that there's. There's thousands or, like, tons and tons of revisions that you'll do.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And you know what I mean, like, so it's not an easy thing.

[A]

It's not an easy thing. And, you know, again, and as. As good as it's getting, and it's going to get better and better and better.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It. I still believe in the fact that a. It was designed for. I. I still believe that AI was built for designers. I still truly believe that. And number two, I think it will always be alongside a designer. It will be like an intern.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't see it replacing everything we do. So the sooner designers realize that and take on this mindset, the better it's going to be. And I mean, again, you'll have nothing to worry about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

However, you guys do got to jump in on AI but that's a whole other episode altogether.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

Later. Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Well, listen, I hope you guys liked what you got here. Please. You know, by all means, if you've got anything to say, you know, hit us up on our website. Hit us up on on our socials. We're on Instagram, we're on YouTube. You know all the places like subscribe forward us to everybody and I have to remind everybody we've got a kick ass newsletter that you guys need to subscribe to. It's called Anger Management for Designers and it's got topics, it's always got actionable items for help.

[B]

Cartoons.

[A]

We've got a cartoon in there now every week. I we've got some AI tips in there every week and it's only once a week and it's so it's not going to bother you that much. So sign up for this. All right?

[B]

Yeah, do it.

[A]

You can sign that up. It's in our socials, it's in our header. Just click on there. It's also on our website so give it a sign up and, and let us know what you think about that.

[B]

Yeah, cool. All right.

[A]

All right everybody. My name is Massimo.

[B]

And my name is Sean.

[A]

Stay creative and stay angry. It.