The Future of Graphic Design: How AI, Canva & Speed Devalued Designers

Summary

The Future of Graphic Design: How AI, Canva & Speed Devalued Designers

The Angry Designer Podcast | January 13, 2026
Hosts: Massimo and Sean

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the current upheaval in the graphic design industry, examining why everything suddenly feels "harder." The hosts break down the “blink effect” – an industry-wide transformation triggered by COVID, the normalization of remote work, the explosion of new tools, and the accelerated adoption of AI and platforms like Canva. They explore how this rapid change has shifted the value away from creative execution toward creative thinking and strategy, and what designers must do to adapt and thrive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Blink Effect: How the Industry Changed Overnight

• Sudden Shift in Industry Dynamics

  • The hosts reflect on how—post-COVID—graphic design “feels harder right now. Not busier, not louder. Harder.” [00:00]
  • They identify COVID-19 as the starting point of a shift: “Covid came. Locked up the world...all of a sudden remote work became tolerated. It was normalized.” [02:45]
  • This normalization paved the way for massive adoption of remote tools (Zoom, Google Meet) that “exploded in what they were able to do.” [04:22]

• The Rapid Rise of AI and Canva

  • AI didn't creep in gradually but “entered right in the middle of the design process...you were born, you gave birth to a five-year-old, and this thing came out and he’s challenging you.” [05:32]
  • As clients saw what AI (and Canva) could do, their expectations recalibrated: “They all of a sudden are able in their minds to do what we have been doing all along.” [06:26]
  • The speed of change left designers in reactive mode, not proactive: “We’ve been adapting blindly…trying to react as opposed to plan ahead.” [08:15]

Redefining Value: Execution vs. Thinking

• Speed and Tools Became Commodities

  • Deadlines shrank. What once made designers look like “rock stars”—working quickly—became the new baseline: “What used to be impressive is now expected.” [10:31]
  • Tools lost their mystique: “The tools used to make the designer, made the role. Well, that's not value anymore.” Anyone with Canva or Affinity can make something “good looking.” [11:10]
  • Result: “Tools stopped being the skill that defined the designer.” [11:40]

• Clients Jumping in at the Middle

  • Clients, equipped with Canva/AI, now enter the design process mid-way and present “wireframes or mockups… giving you something messed up from AI that makes absolutely no sense.” [12:25]
  • Designers spend more time fixing client-created “design slop” than making original work: “We’re busier, but not doing what we want to do.” [14:17]
  • “Design execution has now been devalued.” [14:26]

The Two Paths for Designers: Doers and Thinkers

• Emergence of Two Distinct Roles

  • “It seems like designers are going to be broken up into two types... the design doers, the ones who love to do things and make things look crazy,” and “the design thinkers, the strategists.” [18:54]
  • Production-oriented roles feel increasingly vulnerable to automation and client DIY: “The doer’s side is being squeezed. This is the part AI is affecting, Canva is affecting…” [22:32]

• Necessity of Strategic Thinking

  • Survival and advancement come from building strategic, conceptual, and process-based value:
    • “You need to start explaining your decisions to your customers...before somebody else asks about them. And that's the key.” [26:32]
    • “Stop defending your taste and start replacing that with intent.” [26:49]
    • “You need to slow down the execution and speed up the thinking.” [27:42]
    • “Guide all conversations instead of reacting to feedback.” [28:28]

Fixing the “Execution Trap”: How Designers Move Forward

• Leading with Process and Confidence

  • Remove the mystery from your work and lead with confidence: “Clients don’t trust what they don’t understand.” [29:32]
  • Model yourself after great client pitches: “He didn’t just be like, ‘Hey, guys, what do you think?’... all they can do is just clap.” [30:11]
  • Focus your explanation on logic and research, not personal preference: "Replace words like 'I like' and 'I feel' with intent." [27:17]

• What AI and Canva Can't Replace

  • The enduring value is thinking made visual: “Design is thinking made visual, and that’s what designers need to embrace. It’s not the visual. It’s the thinking.” — Saul Bass quoted at [31:21]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the impact of relentless change:

  “This, this whole blink moment, this blink effect happened so fast that we haven’t had time...we’ve been adapting blindly to everything...trying to react as opposed to plan ahead.”
  — Massimo [07:52]

• On client perceptions and designer value:

  “Now if you’re slow... you’re being punished for that. And you’re, you’re in an agency environment, you’re just hidden in the corner until you’re up to speed...That’s shitty.”
  — Massimo [10:37]

  “Tools stopped being the skill that defined the designer.”
  — Massimo [11:40]

• On the deluge of “design slop”:

  “We’re fixing. Yeah, because we’re fixing shit...we’re constantly going back and... fixing a lot of crap.”
  — Massimo & Sean [14:01]

• On the necessity of process and strategy:

  “You need to start explaining your decisions to your customers before someone else asks about them...that’s huge, that’s massive.”
  — Massimo [26:32]

  “Stop defending your taste and start replacing that with intent. I chose this because logic says this, data says this…”
  — Massimo [26:49]

  “Creative-led websites are always over-budget... because creative isn’t strategy.”
  — Massimo [28:00]

• On the future of design roles:

  “You might be a doer, and... that doer designer, that always feels like squeeze...like you’re always defending what it is that you’re doing.”
  — Massimo [32:25]

  “Design is thinking made visual, and that’s what designers need to embrace. It’s not the visual, it’s the thinking that separates us from AI, from Canva.”
  — Saul Bass (quoted by Massimo) [31:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 05:06: Industry’s “off” feeling, remote work’s effect, and the blink effect
• 05:07 – 08:16: The sudden impact of AI and Canva
• 08:17 – 15:33: Speed, tool devaluation, and increasing client interference
• 15:34 – 16:54: Rise of “design slop” and execution overload
• 18:33 – 25:08: The “doer” vs. “thinker” split for future designers
• 25:57 – 32:34: How to lead with process, intent, and strategic value
• 31:21: Quoting Saul Bass: “Design is thinking made visual.”
• 32:42 – 34:16: Final thoughts: Embracing thought and strategy for design’s future

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Action Steps & Takeaways

• Embrace strategy and process-thinking as your primary value proposition.
• Be proactive in explaining and justifying design choices to clients with logic, data, and intent.
• Don’t rely on execution speed or tool mastery as a differentiator—these are now baseline expectations.
• See the influx of AI and DIY tools not as threats, but as a shift in where designers need to prove their worth.
• Younger designers should develop the creative director’s mindset now, not in 10 years.

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Closing

The graphic design industry is transforming fast. Success and satisfaction will come not from execution or visuals alone, but from the ability to “think, explain, and guide” clients through the strategic side of design—making yourself indispensable beyond what any app or AI can replicate.

Stay creative and stay angry!

— Massimo and Sean

Transcript

[A]

Graphic design feels harder right now. Not busier, not louder. Harder. If you've been thinking, why does everything all of a sudden feel like a fight? Then this episode is exactly that. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by wix Studio, we're breaking down why the industry all of a sudden started feeling harder overnight. Why clients stop respecting our process and everything feels rushed. And why designers are fixing more work than they're actually creating. And why none of this actually means that you're failing at your job. Because the part that most are missing is that design didn't actually lose its value. Execution did. And once you see that shift, this entire industry feeling right now finally makes sense again. Let's go. Sean.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I got some bourbon.

[B]

Oh, you want some?

[A]

Got some bourbon.

[B]

Some bourbon.

[A]

I got us, like, a year's worth. Okay. I've got so much bourbon coming our way. Canada. I'm showing you. Say no bourbon. Forget it. Not against these guys.

[B]

Nothing's going to stop Moss in his bourbon.

[A]

So this is actually Costco brand Kirkland bourbon. I heard good things. And if you. If you guys can see the bottle, I've already sampled it, and I like it, but you have it.

[B]

Where'd you pick this up? Right beside the diapers. Yeah, right?

[A]

Yeah. Because you need bourbon in order to.

[B]

Put up with kids duty. Gotta love Costco. Cheers.

[A]

Cheers, my friend.

[B]

Smells great.

[A]

Smells good. Let me tell you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If there's anything that's gonna drive designers to drink, it's gonna be what has gone on. Okay. Everybody I talk to right now says the same thing. It's like the industry feels off, but nobody knows exactly.

[B]

Can't put the finger on it.

[A]

Yeah. Figure it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, again, and. And. And I'm going through this, and I'm like, I don't think that it is anything that has specifically happened this past year, because, let's face it, last year was actually kind of good for design. I mean, you know, it's not like, you know, design collapsed, and everything that we learned from Paul Rand and Saul Bass doesn't mean anything.

[B]

I mean, it's all still very relevant. Yeah.

[A]

But then I keep thinking about something that I'm going to refer to as the blink effect. Okay. The blink effect. And, you know, we're only looking at the past year, but let's not look at the past year. Let's back it up a couple more years, and let's take a good look at what has happened in our space to kind of make everybody feel the way they are. Okay? And I'm saying, let's go all the way back to freaking Covid, because it.

[B]

Seems like, Jesus, something's going wrong.

[A]

Blame Covid. Well, hear me out.

[B]

Fair enough. Obviously, it was a game changer.

[A]

It really was. Right? And it's a moment in time that every single person who's alive right now and conscious enough will remember. Okay?

[B]

But Kirkland helped.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Helped get through Covid.

[A]

But I mean, okay, hear me out. Okay? Covid came. Okay. Locked up the world.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Whether is right or wrong, fine. That's not what this is about. But in essence, everybody all of a sudden had to work from home for a little bit. Okay. If not, we're all freelancers. Okay? We all.

[B]

For all intents and purposes.

[A]

And prior to Covid, okay, there was a ton of freelancers. I knew some.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I would hire them. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, but they had very different work practices. Okay. They would. They would work from home, but they would still drive out to meet their clients. They would have meetings at the client's place. They would have meetings in coffee shops. Right. So there was still a very, you know, leaving the house. Okay. To. To. To go out and do work.

[B]

Right, Right. There was a. There was an interactivity with. With clients and. And people like that.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

At that point. Yes.

[A]

But what happened after Covid, you know, took charge is that all of a sudden, remote work became tolerated. It was normalized.

[B]

It was the cool thing almost kind of. Yeah.

[A]

And we enjoyed it for a little bit. For a blink.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. For a blink. For a blink. Okay. You know, but the thing is, it was normalized. So now all of a sudden, it was okay not to drive to visit the customers. Right. It was okay to just work from your computer at home. Okay. Is all of a sudden, it's like some things kind of started to slip. You could see. Right. But it became. Ultimately became normalized.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And what happened was, with all this remote work shit, okay. Is all these new tools became available that promoted work from home that much more.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So now it's like you've got tools like Zoom and Google Chess that all of a sudden, you know, hey, we have face to face interactions. I'll never need to go drive to visit my customer.

[B]

Yeah, you don't have to anymore.

[A]

During COVID okay, we landed, like three or four good customers. They all lived here in kitchen and water. Okay. And the crazy thing is, even after Covid passed, we still didn't meet in person because these tools made so normal. Yeah. Okay. So needless to say, the Tools exploded in what they were able to do. And all of a sudden it's like, you know, we're working from home, we got all these crazy ass tools happening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then all in a sudden this thing started creeping in called A.I. okay. And you know, okay, granted, I've been following it for a long time.

[B]

You've been aware of it for most parts.

[A]

Okay. For most of the people were just like.

[B]

Most of the dummies like me were just like, what?

[A]

It's like, it's like there's this new thing called AI and it' Adobe Illustrator.

[B]

I start new. I got.

[A]

And the thing is, you know, where it entered and the ferocity it entered in was right in the middle of the design process. And what I mean by that is, you know, it didn't kind of didn't go to the end well, it didn't edge its way in like, like, like, like an infant. Okay?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Literally it's like you were you born, you gave birth to a five year old, okay. And this thing came out and he's challenging you and G. Right, right. Like literally. And it entered. Most people found out about AI when all of a sudden it affected their creativity. Right. It started creating all the shit. And yeah, they made fun of it. You know, Will Smith eating with his eyes in funny places and eating spaghetti slop. Right. But the reality is it entered into a part of the design process that designers took very personal. This is what we did.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We were hired to do this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So all of a sudden that came in. Okay. And that kind of made everybody question. And. And then all of a sudden clients started hearing about AI. Oh, clients started hearing about it and. Sorry. And you know, even shortly after AI, you can say Canva became like the main go to as well. Yes. So clients started. Started understanding what AI was capable of doing. Started understanding what CANVA was allowing them to do. Okay. And what it did is, is it kind of recalibrated what clients expectations was because now they were jumping in mid process. Okay. And they were jumping in at the design stage. Something that designers owned. We were the ones that owned that process. So they jumped in and now they all of a sudden are able in their minds to do what we have been doing all along. Okay. Whether we've been paying much attention to it or not is a whole different story, which we'll talk about. But all of a sudden all this has happened and it's only happened in the past three to four fucking years. So again, what. It's, it's happening so Fast that it's like, of course we're all confused and thinking things are weird because we haven't had a chance to pause and start recalibrating ourselves.

[B]

Oh, so you think it's been going so fast, so hard that we have not been able to adapt to this.

[A]

Exactly. So it's not that designers have been lazy to adapt.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

It's our fault, which again, I would, I would give designers shit that was the case. But this has happened. This, this whole blink moment, this blink effect happens so fast that we haven't had time and we haven't had a chance to, to, to adapt to any of this. Okay. Literally, we've been adapting blindly to everything that has been happening because we've almost been trying to re. React as opposed to plan ahead.

[B]

To plan ahead.

[A]

Right. And so it's nobody's fault in that sense. It's just that nobody felt prepared. Yeah. For what we've been going through because it's just been compounding, stacking one thing after the other after the other. That's really kind of changed it, our industry, for the. I don't want to say for the better, but it has made some major impact on how we do what we do. For sure. It's true. Yeah.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. Wow, that's pretty up.

[A]

Well, think about it. Right. And again, this, this is, this would give reason for why everything feels so unsettled.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right now. And again. And then. And so I dug deeper in this. Right. And I started thinking deeper and how. And okay. Some of the things that actually changed now in our whole process and what we deal with on a reg, this is what's happened in our industry. These are the specific things that actually change. Right. Like all of a sudden, speed was always an issue with customers.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. They always wanted things fast.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But there was a reasonable, reasonable element to it now at that point.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I mean, again, when the client wanted something fast, that meant four or five days.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Which is reasonable now. Yeah.

[A]

Now feels like a lifetime. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's, it's to the point now we're our app. Okay. We have to put a disclaimer that, you know, it's like number one, urgent, means you need it in three days. And if you need it less than three days, talk, contact us. The fact that we even have to state, you know, for our customers, you know, who are pushing, you know, these production, these high volume production things, projects, if they need it less than three days, they have to contact us. It's Insane.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To think that, you know, we are expected to do things in this kind of turnaround.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like speed used to be something that was impressive.

[B]

Yes. Oh, that was great.

[A]

And.

[B]

And we were good at that. We still are very good at that.

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

That was within reason. Now we've got clients who are like, they ask for an infographic in a week and then we say, no, that's not possible. And we get a side eye from them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, I know all about AI and what it can do. But no, that's not the case. It's the. There's so much more in behind.

[A]

There's so much more, but they're not realizing.

[B]

But they don't get that.

[A]

Exactly. Because they jumped in on the middle.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, I can make one in canva.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It doesn't work now.

[A]

Now it's like what used to be, like would make you a rock star. Super fast, able to turn around quick is now expected.

[B]

Is now.

[A]

And now if you're slow or you're just entering and getting to that, you're being punished for that. And you're, you're in an agency environment. You're just hidden in the corner until you're up to speed. Until you get. That's shitty. Okay. That's shitt that you even have to put that on people right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you know, the industry is pushed for. We've, we've delivered and now we're all screwed because of it. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now the tools. Okay, so another thing that's happening is, is because of all this, okay, the tools that we used to use and we were known for, okay. Used to be the skill.

[B]

That was it. That was our, that was our. That feather in our cap.

[A]

Exactly. The feather in the cap.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Good way of putting that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. It's like, you know, oh, well, if you need to do this, you need Photoshop. And only graphic designers have Photoshop. Yeah, yeah. Call a design.

[B]

Ergo, it's me.

[A]

Exactly. Right? So, so, so the tools really made the designer, made the role.

[B]

Okay. Right.

[A]

Well, again, you know, that's not value anymore. That means shit. Okay? Now it's like customers can go online, they can go on Canva, they can go on a million other apps, do this shit themselves. Affinity is free.

[B]

Affinity.

[A]

They really want professional grade software. Yeah. Okay. They don't even need the designer really anymore because now they have the software or at least so they think they do. Okay? So tools stop being the skill that define the designer. Okay. And now it's like, really leaning towards the parts that we've always professed about the thinking, the strategy, process. The process. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, with that being said, now that now that speed's a thing and tools are a thing. Right. Clients have become more involved. Okay. That's something we're all dealing with. Okay. Clients are now more involved because they're jumping in at the middle stage. They're going on canva, on AI, whatever, and doing creative for us. They're doing us a favor.

[B]

Yes, they're helping.

[A]

Thanks, guys. Right. But seriously, it's like, you know, and now they're. They're delivering, you know, wireframes to us. Yeah. Sometimes they're delivering mockups. Here, I need this. Just use something like this. And they're giving you something messed up from AI that makes absolutely no fucking sense.

[B]

Sense, exactly. It's completely off brand, and you're just like, what the hell?

[A]

But now they have opinions because now they feel they're at almost your level, because now they've jumped in at that middle stage, that execution stage. Okay. So now they have more visibility into the project, you know, more confidence in telling you what you should be doing, because now they can do it themselves, or so they think. Okay. And. And so what this is resulting in is because the reality is, you know, again, it's not just the execution. You know, where designers put the value, it's the whole process. The design, the execution, the delivery. Right. Well, customers are jumping in at that execution stage levels. Yeah. Okay. And they're delivering us creative work that doesn't work. So now we are all busier. I mean, again, this was the busiest December we've had in almost 10 years.

[B]

Insane.

[A]

Insane.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

We're fixing.

[B]

Yeah, because we're fixing shit. You're right. You're absolutely right.

[A]

Seriously? Yeah. This is what's happening. I mean, we're getting projects, we're getting asks, and it's like they're underestimating timelines because they think they can do it cheaper, faster, on by themselves at AI Realize they can't. They give it to us. And, like, we need this done in, like, four days. Can you help us? Can you do it? It's. It's creating all this chaos work, this chaotic environment, but not doing the stuff that we love doing. Not doing the creative and execution. Yeah, but we're fixing stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. We're going back. They're creating this stuff, and, you know, they're coming to us and being like, oh, it didn't work, can you fix it? And so we're constantly going back and, and we're fixing a lot of crap. So this is, this is the problem. This is why we've gotten busier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Of course. And again, it's like, it's like all this, all this crap, this noise is making us busier, but not doing what we want to do. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And last but not least, how this is now literally affecting us is design execution has now been devalued. And I mean, I've always thought it was. Design is devalued. Design is devalued. What I've realized is design itself isn't devalued. Okay. No, but the design execution. Right. Has been devalued. Right. Because now it's like, you know, they can get faster, cheaper, good looking stuff anywhere.

[B]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

Okay. And that sucks. Yeah. Because it's not necessarily works, but it's the execution part that they seem to. To hinge on. Right. They're constantly on that. Right. Good looking shits everywhere. Anybody go to Canva?

[B]

It's easy to do.

[A]

If you look through Canva's templates, it's like it all looks good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And sure, it's making the world look better in the sense of you don't see like posters that look like they're from word 95. Right. They can now go on there and create a template and make something look pretty half decent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it doesn't work.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's the challenge. But the thing is nobody's. Nobody's thinking about the work. They're just focused on the fucking execution.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And so that's the part that's been, that's been devalued. Okay. Not necessarily design per se, because we're constantly the ones who are fixing it. But what's happening is they are jumping in to the middle of the process and they are just doing the design part. And what's. What that's resulting in is all this design slop. Yes. That's all over the place. Not AI slop, because that's an actual thing.

[B]

Is that real?

[A]

It is. It is a legitimate term and I love that term. Everybody's. But. But it's not just AI slop because it's also canvas slop.

[B]

Canvas slop.

[A]

And it's bas. It's all this that's being turned out, but it's not working. It's not working for anybody. Okay. Clients create it. They, they present it to you. They're like, here, build this for us. Okay. In higher resolution.

[B]

Done.

[A]

I know many people, many angry designers have reached out to us and they're like, I'm constantly fixing all this that's given to me, but it's not, you know, production quality. It doesn't work. We can't make revisions to it. It's horrible. Right? So, you know, what's happening is clients are now delivering this AI slob or, sorry, like this design slop. Yeah, okay, but you know, it's not working. And they're like, well, it's good enough. Just make it work. It's good enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now what they're realizing is that good enough, which we know is a problem, but good enough isn't turning around good enough results.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Web design for graphic designers. I know we've talked about this, the big creative divide. And again, I hate to say it, but I think it's kind of happening again in the sense of it seems like designers are going to be broken up into two types of designers. Okay? It seems like there's going to be the design. There's two paths for a designer in the future, okay?

[B]

Right?

[A]

The design doers, okay? The executioners, the ones who love to do things and make things look crazy. That's. That seems like that's still going to have a place in the future, even with AI and everything else out there. I do feel so. But then there's also going to be the design thinkers, the strategists, the thinker, you know, the people who actually put the behind it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, okay, don't get me wrong, it's not to say that. Oh, of course, any designer can do that. Well, no shit. Okay. Any design. But, but quickly what I'm realizing, okay, is it's any experienced designer that's the, can do this. Okay. We've got a team of designers back here. Okay.

[B]

They're awesome, they're amazing.

[A]

But you can quickly see the ones who are, who are hands on doing versus the ones who are thinking things through. It doesn't make one better or worse by any means, but it seems like they have two very different disciplines. Okay. Whether, whether, you know, you used to, used to talk about these or refer to people as production artists, productions versus graphic artists. Right, right. But then all of a sudden it seems like production artists and the graphic design doers are almost being melded into one. Yeah. Because they're still not putting that thought process, the value, you know, they're, they're entering in that middle stage. This is what designers have been focused on the past three, four years online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't get me wrong, the industry needs both. It needs, it needs the graphic designers who are doers, who are executing end that with the way technology is going, with the way AI is going and all these tools, you know, that's going to become a pretty niche thing all on its own. Right. Churning out stuff that's using AI, not, not fighting against it. Okay. And then you're going to have the thinkers who are the ones who are actually, you know, putting the thought, the process behind. Right, right. That's kind of that, that, that split that I'm seeing right now. Okay. And again, this used to be a natural progression for a designer. Right. And again, you know, you'd start off as a graphic designer, you start off as a junior, move up to a graphic designer, move up to an art director, move up to a creative director. And generally the art director, creative director is where strategy, you know, started, led and it was kind of passed through. And the younger ones are the ones who are hands on doing it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But now at the pace everything's happening. Okay. A lot of the juniors now are being forced.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To step into this role.

[B]

You know, it's funny because as, as we Talk about our crew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know whether it's forced is what. And we're blessed. We have, we have an awesome crew, but we have awesome. We have junior employees here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That would come to. To me as. And say, this isn't working.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Do you know what I'm saying? And it's like that, that awareness to say good on that. I could just. I could. They could just put out, let it rip and do whatever. Right. But no, they know something is.

[A]

They know something's.

[B]

And they need kind of a second.

[A]

Set of experience comes into play.

[B]

But that's what I'm saying. It's also, there's, there's that knowledge for that and, and to not say, like, we had one employee here who. All she wanted to do was production.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's not here anymore.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And we kept. You remember, we kept putting her in. I was like, don't you help her.

[A]

She didn't do this.

[B]

She did not want to do that. But see, the kids out there now, they want. They want to figure out why is this not working well.

[A]

And here's the thing. It's like they have to view every project through a creative director's mindset.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Their eyes. Not through a production person's voice. Again, you know, you can probably have a pretty decent career, you know, being a production artist or a graphic designer who's just a doer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But right now, when I'm seeing the doers versus the thinkers. Yes. Okay. The doer's side is being squeezed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is. AI is affecting that.

[B]

Is going to.

[A]

That Canva is affecting that part. Every technology change that we're seeing and customers. That part. But then what happens? Customers then are being like, oh, okay, I can do that. But it's not working. They go back to the Thinker. Mr. Thinker.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Why didn't that work? What's not going. Give me the. Give me that. And that's. That's the difference. So you can probably have a good career just making things look pretty and just focusing on. On That's. That's your role. You're now become a graphic artist. Yeah. Not an actual designer. Okay. But I think that it's constantly going to be an industry that's going to be, you know, on edge and is always going to be so squeezed and, and always just like one step away from being replaced.

[B]

Exactly. Yes. It's. It's a very precarious position that you're on. You don't know whether, like, that could be obsolete. Obsolete. At some point. Or you could eek out a living doing. Right. Or you can do exactly. What we do is get the thinking aspect of it and get that done. Yes, exactly.

[A]

Because. Absolutely. Right.

[B]

There'll always be a spot for that.

[A]

You know, it's like, it's like when they're going through this process, they're obviously thinking in order to get the design done. Okay. But they're not really ever challenged to explain the reasons behind it, to be challenged to the reasons behind it. Right, Right. And I think that's the problem because, you know, there was a point where clients used to trust the execution part. Okay. And they used to think that, oh, you know what, they made it look good. They're obviously the expert. They didn't ask about the process. Right. But now that, that are these clients, okay. Are capable of doing the same executable themselves. Okay. Now all of a sudden they feel they're on the same level with designers and so that that whole what they used to trust in doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist. So this is why it's like now, you know, whether you want to, you know, continue on and just be, you know, craft designer and just make things look pretty, you know, I think the reality is, you know, if you want longevity in this space, you do have to start thinking and putting, thinking everywhere. Because above anything else that's changed over the past five years, four years of this crazy, what it's shown me is the value of the logic behind what you do. Right. And that's what customers, that's what customers are coming back for us to fix. And this is why things feel so damn busy right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because now we're fixing everything. So it's an interesting place where we are right now, you know, because I feel like experienced designers still have a leg up. This is that one industry where I think experience actually lends itself yourself better. Not, not, not, not. You can't age yourself out in this space.

[B]

I, I don't think you can. Yeah. I mean, as long as you, you know, you have that thirst for like, like think of what we have come up through. And, and for a while there, it was pretty, pretty normal. But.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But we're all in this the last four years. 100 and we've adapted quite well too. 100 exactly.

[A]

Because we had both sides.

[B]

Because we have all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. We could, we can execute. We can, we can. Problems, ideas.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Which is why we're not afraid of AI because we realize it's just another tool.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because this is what we came up with.

[A]

Exactly. There's always been another tool.

[B]

There's always been another tool. Yes. It's going to take our job. And it's like, oh, yeah, no, we use that, as, you know, to further. Because the mindset, the thinking part of it has always been there.

[A]

So the way I see it is the designers who are going to pull ahead of this. Okay. Need to start doing things a little bit differently. Okay. Because this isn't about learning a new tool. Okay. This is about changing how you show up. You know, when you're talking to customers, when you're presenting customers. Stuff. Right. Like, for example, you. You need to basically start explaining your decisions to your customers. Okay. Like, before somebody else asks about them. And that's the key, because oftentimes you'll present to a group of people and they'll start pitching in. You know why you got to that decision and you're almost letting them lead the show.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I meant.

[B]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[A]

Right. You don't. You don't want to wait for that to happen. Or. Or you don't want to wait to be challenged. Okay. You want to lead the narrative of how you got there before it even gets to that part. That's huge. That's massive. Right. And of course, you need to stop defending your taste and start replacing that with intent. Yes. Okay. I chose this because logic says this and data says this not. Well, I felt like this was softer. Image. And this image represents your business because it's pretty. It's pretty. No, no. And that's the thing, right? You got to replace words like I like and I feel with intent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Because that's what this is about. People aren't asking about your feelings. You're the expert. And experts are supposed to have a ton of experience, right. On basing what they're doing on, you know, why they're choosing what they're doing. Exactly.

[B]

If you have a client and. And you're working off of your feelings with them, you were doing them a disservice. It's research. Research, research. Exactly.

[A]

You need to slow down the execution and speed up the thinking. Okay. And what I mean by this is we have the saying here that creative LED websites are always over budget. Okay. They're always, you know, over time, and everybody's miserable because, you know, creative isn't strategy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. People start making things look pretty and they focus on the pretty, and they're like, oh, we forgot this. Oh, forgot that. Oh, what about this? Call to action, dude. You can't let it get to that point. Exactly. You need to slow that execution down and focus more on the thinking. Okay. And let the customers know that there's a reason for this so they're not quick to jump on AI. Oh, this is how I want to.

[B]

Yeah, this is how it should go. Yeah. Look what I did.

[A]

You missed this. You missed this. You.

[B]

Exactly. We're going to get there. Yes.

[A]

You want to guide all conversations before instead of reacting to feedback. Okay. This is, this, this is huge. Because oftentimes, you know, they're nervous. They'll present like, okay, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah, what do you think?

[A]

And you're waiting for feedback. What you're, what you're doing in a situation like this, you're defending what their feedback is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't want to even give them that option. You want to lead every point. You. You want to nail every point. So it gives them nothing to give you feedback. Okay. Right this way. It's like, at that point, it's like you're covering all your bases because you don't want to defend anything you want to do. Right. Because everything you do, you're leading with confidence, with reasons, with.

[B]

Yeah, that's the thing. A good process is confidence there. Right there in itself. Right.

[A]

Like, right.

[B]

You know, Absolutely. If you do it right in the first place.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know, this works because we've done it before.

[A]

Because we've done it before. You know, data says this, you know, click through says that. Conversions say that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And here's a big one. You want to replace the mystery of how you do things with confidence behind it.

[B]

There we go.

[A]

And what I mean by this is, is clients often don't know how you got there. They're like, whoa, yeah, you know, that's, that's great.

[B]

Sheesh.

[A]

But how did you get there? And all of a sudden, they're going to start questioning what you've actually presented to them. They like it. Yeah. Okay. But it's a mystery, the design process. Right. And the thing is, clients don't trust what they don't understand. So they might love it, but they need that explanation of how you got there. Right. That's why when you see those awesome pitches on Madman again, he didn't just be like, hey, guys, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah. And he's not all wishy washy or anything. Yes. This great. Yes.

[A]

This is the idea and this is why. And he talks about the story and all of A sudden, in the end, all they can do is just clap.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

And that's what you want. Every single pitch, you want to get to the point where they don't even question you. They're like, holy shit. Yes, go with it. Right. Again, we're removing, you know, the execution from this, and everything is thought basis. You know, again, it's like. This isn't even about, like, trying to, you know, change thinking or make this about, you know, trust, you know, the creative I'm doing. This is about the thought process behind that, what we do. This is what designers were always supposed to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is what we've always professed about this industry.

[B]

Big time. Big time. That's the. The strategy part of it is as important as look it pretty.

[A]

Absolutely right. Again, this is. This is all about decision making. This has nothing to do with just the delivery. Okay. Because the delivery is what AI has replaced. The delivery is what Canva has replaced. Okay. This is about the actual doing. Okay. Or how we got there. Our process on how we got there. Okay. Sol, you know what? I'm going to finish this off. Okay. With Saul Bass.

[B]

Oh, geez. You can't go wrong there.

[A]

Saul Bass said that design is thinking made, visual, and that's what designers need to embrace. It's not the visual.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's the thinking that separates us from AI that separates us from Canva, for God's sake. I hate to say this, but a lot of the shit that's on Canva is better than most of the junior designers exiting college. Canva looks great. A lot of the stuff looks great. It follows all the grids, the rules. And this is stuff that juniors have to actually learn to become second nature. But what Canva lacks is the thinking behind what it is that they're doing. Okay? And so I'm sorry if that was offensive, but the reality is, if you're just focused on the design, just on the execution, you're limited, man. You're limited. You might be a doer, and, you know, but like I said, that doer designer, that. That always feels like squeeze. It feels like you're always defending what it is that you're doing.

[B]

Yeah. I always think that, you know, something. Something is nipping at your heels with that.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, you're not going to. It's not a. It's not a comfortable spot to be in. In this industry.

[A]

Hell, no. Yeah, right? And so that's why I am encouraging everybody. Start thinking. Putting. Thinking first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Putting strategy first. You need to be able to put purpose behind every. Every decision you make and stop making it about it. Looking good and making it purposeful for the customer.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Honestly, that's how we're going to keep going in this field.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, I think that's what's going to get us over this hump. Yeah, I know it is. I know it is. Because we're not going anywhere. No, we're going to exit when we want to exit.

[B]

Yeah, I hope so.

[A]

Oh, I. I know. I. I know so, Sean. Because again, I see what the tools are. I see what the industry is doing. I see what customers need right now. And again, again, execution. Yeah. Everything I'm seeing out there almost has it covered. And the way we will design in the future is different than what we're doing now.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

I've seen some incredible stuff. And we'll share that another episode. Okay. Absolutely scary, what I'm seeing, but the reality is still above anything else. Everything I'm seeing still is missing one thing, and that is the thinking behind the purpose and behind what it is we do.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Absolutely. 100.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So we're good?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cool. All right. Well, that felt like a blink to get through. Really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About four years in the making, but.

[B]

But yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, there's just been so much stacked on top of each other in just such small. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Holy smokes.

[A]

Cool. Guys, please. I hope you guys love what you do. You know where to find us. Comment. Like, hit us up. Don't forget to subscribe for a newsletter. Anger management for designers. I mean, a lot more of this just newsletter format. Cool.

[B]

Less yelling.

[A]

Yeah. My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean. Stay creative and stay angry.