This Reddit Thread Thinks Being "Just" A Graphic Designer Is Risky...Do You?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer – "This Reddit Thread Thinks Being 'Just' A Graphic Designer Is Risky...Do You?"

Episode Details

• Title: This Reddit Thread Thinks Being "Just" A Graphic Designer Is Risky...Do You?
• Release Date: August 12, 2025
• Host: Massimo and Sean, Creative Directors and Hosts of The Angry Designer Podcast
• Description: In this episode, Massimo and Sean delve into a contentious Reddit thread discussing the risks of being solely a graphic designer in today's evolving creative landscape. They dissect 14 key points from the thread, providing their unfiltered opinions and actionable insights for designers navigating industry challenges.

---

Introduction

Massimo and Sean kick off the episode by introducing the topic inspired by a Reddit post claiming that being "just" a graphic designer is becoming increasingly risky. They express their enthusiasm for Reddit as a source of genuine industry feedback and set the stage for an in-depth analysis of the discussion points raised by the Reddit community.

Massimo [01:23]: "Being just a graphic designer is getting risky."

Overview of the Reddit Thread

The hosts recount their approach to engaging with Reddit, highlighting the platform's mix of passionate experts and vocal whiners. They note the diversity of perspectives, from seasoned veterans offering practical advice to newcomers expressing frustrations about industry trends like AI and freelance challenges.

Sean [02:56]: "Reddit has a healthy mix."

Detailed Analysis of Key Points

1. Commoditization of Design

Issue: The perception that design resources like fonts, mockups, and presets are readily available, leading to the undervaluation of design work.

Discussion:

• Massimo argues that the abundance of design tools and templates (e.g., Canva) has led clients to undervalue the intricacies of the design process.
• Sean adds that while tools democratize design, they also make it appear deceptively simple, causing non-designers to equate ease with designer capability.

Massimo [06:00]: "People don't understand what a designer does. They just focus on the end product."

2. Scope Creep and Client Expectations

Issue: Clients expecting unlimited revisions and 24-hour turnarounds, pushing designers towards burnout.

Discussion:

• The hosts debate whether such expectations stem from client irresponsibility or designer over-eagerness to please.
• Massimo emphasizes the importance of setting clear boundaries and adhering to defined processes to prevent scope creep.

Massimo [17:35]: "If customers are asking you for stuff on weekends, they will turn into that."

3. The Necessity of Stacking Skills

Issue: The evolving demands of the industry require designers to expand their skill sets beyond traditional graphic design.

Discussion:

• Sean and Massimo advocate for "smart stacking," where designers build complementary skills (e.g., motion graphics, web design) that enhance their primary expertise.
• They caution against spreading too thin ("stack wide") and recommend focusing on skills that naturally complement each other.

Massimo [15:30]: "Stack your skills smartly, not wide."

4. Visibility vs. Skill

Issue: Simply being good at design isn't enough; visibility and self-promotion are crucial for career growth.

Discussion:

• Massimo shares a story about a talented designer struggling with self-promotion, illustrating that exceptional skill alone doesn't guarantee success.
• The hosts stress the importance of personal branding and active marketing to ensure that one's skills are recognized and valued.

Massimo [43:38]: "Being good isn't good enough. You have to be visible."

5. Impact of AI on the Design Profession

Issue: AI tools are beginning to replace average designers by automating aspects of the design process.

Discussion:

• The duo discusses how AI can enhance, but also threaten, the role of designers who rely solely on basic design skills.
• They encourage designers to leverage AI as a tool to augment their strategic thinking and unique value propositions, rather than viewing it purely as competition.

Massimo [40:20]: "AI isn't replacing designers; it's replacing the average ones."

Conclusions and Insights

Massimo and Sean conclude that the graphic design industry is at a strategic crossroads where adaptability, continual skill development, and strong personal branding are essential for longevity and success. They emphasize that while challenges like AI and client expectations are significant, they also present opportunities for designers to differentiate themselves through strategic expertise and comprehensive service offerings.

Sean [55:29]: "We're going to keep learning. This is my passion. Being a designer for life."

Notable Quotes

• Massimo [06:36]: "Nobody knows how to do print anymore."
• Sean [22:52]: "Being a syringe army knife."
• Massimo [34:22]: "Clients don't want design. They want business problems solved."
• Sean [37:05]: "It's a pitch meeting gone sideways."
• Massimo [43:38]: "The reality is, visibility beats skill."

Final Thoughts

The episode serves as a robust guide for graphic designers facing the evolving demands of the creative industry. By dissecting real-world concerns from platforms like Reddit, Massimo and Sean provide listeners with practical strategies to enhance their value, protect their creative processes, and thrive amidst technological advancements and shifting client expectations.

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Quote from the Transcript for Clarity:

Massimo [17:35]: "If customers are asking you for stuff on weekends, they will turn into that."

Transcript

[Massimo]

Foreign. You're listening to the Angry Designer podcast.

[Sam]

Where we help frustrated graphic designers crush the industry chaos, ditch the social BS.

[Massimo]

And build badass, rewarding careers that actually pay now.

[Sam]

Powered by WIX Studio.

[Massimo]

Oh, how are you, my friend?

[Sean]

I'm well, thank you. And yourself?

[Unknown]

Good.

[Massimo]

This midweek podcast recording, right? That used to be our thing, right? Middle of the week. Because this is hump day.

[Sean]

It's something.

[Massimo]

Hump day. So being that it's hump day, you know, obviously I start off every hump day by, like, you know, trying to avoid work. I do everything possible not to work just because it's Wednesday and you have to get around it somehow. She usually kind of gets me. And, you know, it's been quite a while since I've been on Reddit. I love Reddit.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

I usually get a lot of good feedback content. I see what people are, you know, talking about in the space. And there was a post.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

So this, this all kind of like, materialized today.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Because Reddit is full of people that are very passionate about stuff. So passionate that they use this platform to complain about everything.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And I saw this one. I saw this post and it was, you know, it was. It was great. Sorry, the post was a busy graphic design post. There was a lot of action here.

[Sean]

Either was. There was a lot going on, but.

[Massimo]

It was the headline that got me, right? Because it said. And again, it said, being just a graphic designer. Yeah, being just a graphic designer is getting risky. And I was like, oh, bring it on.

[Sean]

Blood in the water, right?

[Massimo]

Well, because again, it's like, you know, there's so many things that people need to realize and, and maybe even be. Be refreshed about this space. I mean, again, there's some uncomfortable truths that people just have to get comfortable with about this space.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And again, I love this space.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

I, I loved it when I was pulling my crazy hours. I loved it through my hustle phases, the ups, the downs, but never has it been easy.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

It's never been a cakewalk. It's never been easy. Right. You know, and, and, and again, I think that's kind of our stance here. It's the best industry to be in.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

We've got our goods, we got our highs, we got. It's got us bads, our lows, and then it's got the U, which is just like that gray area where it's like you can get taken advantage of. And then there's burn. Like, I mean, there's so many crazy things about the Space that I just started going through this list, and there must have been like, like 60 or 70, just one liners that people would just jump all over on this one. Like, everybody was an expert, but it's just like, I. I couldn't figure out if this was a thread about experts or a thread about whiners or a little bit of both. Like, it just.

[Sean]

Yeah, you're right. I think. I think Reddit has a healthy mix and. Well, yeah, there was, you know, some of those posts in there. There was a lot of, you know, I would say probably veterans.

[Massimo]

There was a lot of those. And they had. Very practical.

[Sean]

And they were very practical.

[Massimo]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Which I liked.

[Massimo]

And then there was people that were. Were. They had these high expectations. Yes. It was just like, you guys gotta shake your head.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

Because that's. This is not what the industry is about.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And. And so I thought what I did. What. For this episode.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

I figure what we would do today is not necessarily about this. My bitching is already done. I've already bitched enough about it. But we're gonna talk about. And we're gonna unpack like, 14 things in here.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

14 statements that I stood out.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

That I thought were worth talking about.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

[Massimo]

And. And to kind of throw, you know, like. Like put our five cents into this. And everybody knows we definitely have an angle. We definitely have an opinion.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Massimo]

We love this space. And we're not going to sugarcoat that. Say that it's the best space in.

[Sean]

The world because it's tough.

[Massimo]

It's a tough space.

[Sean]

It can chew you out the backside if you prepare for.

[Massimo]

Absolutely. And the reality is it's just gonna get tougher.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And faster.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Again, this industry in. In my 25 years, 30 years of being in this space has changed so much from, you know, all the way to print, then all the way to digital. Then all of a sudden came this whole, you know, global economy, you know, where it was like a race to zero. Then everything went social.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Now every print is back.

[Unknown]

Y.

[Massimo]

Nobody knows how to do print anymore.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

So it's like the veterans actually have a.

[Sean]

That's good.

[Massimo]

And now AI has come in and just bucked everything up all over again.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And this is just in the past, like, 25 years of us being in business. So the future, you know, isn't going to get any easier.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But at the same time, why would you want it to? Because. I don't know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

No, it doesn't make any sense to me. I I think that's part of. Part of the allure of what we do is the danger. You know what I mean? Like, there's something exciting about that.

[Massimo]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Well, it gets your heart racing.

[Massimo]

Like.

[Sean]

Like today when I mistakenly sent that. That wrong deck.

[Massimo]

The wrong deck, right. Oh, wait, so you did send the wrong.

[Sean]

No, I didn't, though. That's the thing.

[Massimo]

They think you did. I know.

[Sean]

So I don't know. I believe my heart was racing when I got.

[Massimo]

She messaged. She said he sent us the wrong deck. And. And.

[Sean]

But.

[Massimo]

But we sent the right one, so I don't. I don't know. So I don't know. But regardless.

[Sean]

Anyway. Anyway, it's.

[Unknown]

It's.

[Massimo]

You still have a job, and that's what's important. But.

[Sean]

But my. My health was at risk there.

[Massimo]

Oh, yeah. Well, okay, you know what, let's just jump in at some of these comments because I think these are actually worth talking about.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Like this very first.

[Unknown]

Com.

[Massimo]

Okay, 14 comments, guys. Okay, 14 comments. We're going to discuss this one.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Comment was. Okay, we're now a commodity. Fonts, mockups, presets, everything's available in a plugin near you. Okay, so that was the actual common.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So, you know, I guess, you know, if designs become a commodity, then is design. Has design just become undervalued? And I think that's the big question here that we talk about. Like, has design become, like, devalued in the client size?

[Sean]

I don't know.

[Massimo]

You know, this. This is something I know I've talked about quite a bit in some of the apps and stuff.

[Unknown]

Right?

Yeah.

[Massimo]

So I kind of feel it has.

[Sean]

Oh, okay.

[Massimo]

Well, and I do.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Because unfortunately, the tools are everywhere and people don't quite understand design.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

They don't understand what a designer does. And in part because the word is confusing, but I mean, people now only look at what we deliver and they just. They say, that's design. They designed a logo, they designed a website, they designed a brochure.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

Nobody ever really talks about the process of design. And so when customers or. Or anybody, our parents, our kids, you know, friends, when they just focus on the end product, well, now you have, you know, AI that'll spit up a logo in five seconds.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And that's on a bad day, okay? You've got Canva that makes design, you know, for idiots. Okay. Or makes. Sorry, Makes. Makes idiots able to design something that looks good. Much better.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Sorry, guys. Sorry. Idiots. You know, you have all these templates out there and they all. So again, all this stuff out there looks good. And to the untrained person, they think it's easy to do because, look, I can just get a design. And now look, I'm just like you. I'm a designer. I went to Canva and I designed it myself.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So I think they're valuing design but the wrong aspect. So it's almost like we've done it to ourselves in this case with all these tools and templates and everything else.

[Sean]

But how. When was the last time you took a template and used that?

[Massimo]

I never had.

[Sean]

That's what I'm saying.

[Massimo]

I never had.

[Sean]

There's. Because you have a brain, you know. Exactly.

[Massimo]

Well, and I think what the difference is, not that we have a brain, we have taste.

[Sean]

Taste.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay.

[Sean]

But somebody, your, your aunt is going to come in there and she's going to go, she's going to make her little yard sale on this and it's.

[Massimo]

Going to look like it will. Right? It will. And so, but, but again, that's why I think it's devalued, because she hasn't actually gone through the process of building that sign herself. She just knows if she wants to, she can go to Canva and do it.

[Unknown]

Right.

Okay.

[Massimo]

So Canva's got like, you know, I think it was like a 10 to 1 ratio of more subscribers than Adobe does.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But the paid subscribers were 10 times less.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Okay.

[Massimo]

Which just means everybody signed up for Canva, but nobody's shocking using it.

[Sean]

Yeah, that is a shocking statistic.

[Massimo]

I know. It's kind of a crazy statistic. So with that being said, it leads me to think that, you know, people don't value design because oftentimes people don't go through the process of the design and they just focus on that end result.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Which feels commoditized because now people only focus on the end result and not the process to get to that.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

That end result is everywhere.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

In so many forms. And again, that's the wrong area that we want to compete in. So. So in that sense, I understand why they feel like a commodity.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But then again, I think if they feel like a. A commodity, those designers that, that use these comments are, are hiding behind the tools and not actually selling the process.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And if that's the case.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

They're already replaced.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

So, you know, if that's. You be worried.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Because it's coming for you. And that's just Moss's words. So. Okay, here's another one. Here's number Two.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

This guy said, or girl. I specialized in logos for 10 years. Now. 90% of the work that gets undercut, 90% of that work is undercut by Fiverr or AI. So this is in. In line with the last one, right? This is what he's saying.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So I guess, you know, the big topic here is. Is. Is niching dead in this space is my opinion right here. We're talking about a logo designer, right? And again, he is probably focusing on that end product.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

The end result.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

We have a lot of friends, good friends, difference that this is what they do. They focus on it, Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And it scares the hell out of me. And I have the conversations with them all the time.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But I'm not worried about them because they don't focus on just that end result.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

So again, Alan Peters is one person that we look up to, is a good friend of ours now, I would like to think anyway. And, you know, he focuses, you know, on the logo, on brand development, Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

He doesn't just deliver that, though, because if you watch what he does online, you watch his videos, he talks about the process, he breaks down the logo. Here's the problems that they had. Here is the problems I overcame. And this is that end product that I created.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So this guy here who's going on about, you know, after 10 years now 90 of his work is being undercut. He's selling that end product because that's all Fiverr gives away. That's all AI does.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

It's not what Alan gives away that. That boy, he will talk through. And, you know, he does that with customers. He gives them the. The big spiel, how we got there.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

James Bernard will do.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

You see, Jay called, like, you know, the guys that we work with, you see what their breakdown is, their process, that's what they're selling to customers. So although I do always worry about niching in a specific skill set.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

These guys aren't selling just that end product. They're selling the process to get there.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

And the byproduct.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Massimo]

Is that end product.

[Unknown]

Yes, exactly.

[Massimo]

And so.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And that's far more attractive to any clients. Like if you're just going to take a logo and drop it on, say, there you go.

[Massimo]

Yep, yep, Exactly.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sean]

I mean, I could have done that. But Alan's going to tell you exactly his process and you what. What everything he went through to get.

[Massimo]

To get to that.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sean]

Final step.

[Massimo]

And that's why you guys should really check out his videos, go into Detail. He teaches people, you know, his process, how he goes through this, his thought process. Right. What the issues are to overcome. You know, even when he's. He's breaking down a logo to rebuild a different version of it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

He doesn' just like, oh, this sucks. So I'm going to do a better version. Right. He will actually talk them through. So I do think that, you know, you know, although I was scared. And here's the thing. If AI gets to a point where it becomes a valuable tool for someone like Alan or James or CJ to use in their logo, you know, development, you know they would. Because they're not selling that final product.

[Unknown]

Yes.

Right.

[Massimo]

They're selling the idea and how they got there. The business problems they overcame. The, the history behind of what it was and why this new mark is so much better. Not I need a new mark.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You know, it has to be in this style. It has to use this phrase in it and it has to include what the duck. Okay. And then.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Check. This is not what they're delivering. So again, if this dude was specializing in logos for 10 years and now all of his work is being undercut by AI or fiber.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

I think he was focusing on the wrong deliverable to the company.

[Sean]

You're probably right. Yes. He's on the wrong end of it. Yeah, I think.

[Massimo]

Yeah, I think so.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

All right, number three, this person said, I do it all now I have to. If I don't say yes to motion web print, I don't eat. Well, first off, who the is eating motion web print? Yeah, I eat food if I have to.

[Unknown]

Dad.

[Massimo]

Joke. Proud.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

This is kind of one of those. Is this a survival move or is this just kind of like, you know, getting one step closer to burnout?

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And this is kind of scary, right. Because again, you know, this isn't the case of niching. This is actually quite the opposite.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

But this person is trying to. Is going on about having to, you know, expand their skill set. So is this the right move?

[Sean]

Yes, I mean, I agree.

[Massimo]

Why?

[Sean]

Like that's the thing is. Is graphic design touches so many different aspects.

[Massimo]

Like.

[Sean]

Like motion graphics website UI ux.

[Unknown]

Yes, yes. Kind of stuff.

[Sean]

It's very closely related. And there were people on there that were saying, well, you wouldn't ask the plumber to do electrical work. Those are very two, two very different trades. We are all. It's all under this little umbrella.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And exactly.

[Sean]

We're like monkeys.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That curiosity.

[Massimo]

You touch the obelisk and we should be.

[Sean]

And it's like, I'm, I'm curious about MOT graphics, I'm curious about ui.

[Massimo]

Well, and here's the thing. Wouldn't motion graphics make your logo presentations better?

[Sean]

Exactly right.

[Massimo]

It brings your logos to life.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

There's something called stacking.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

You stack your skill sets.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And okay. It's one thing to say, I'm going to be the world's best graphic designer. I'm going to be the world's best web designer. I'm going to be the world's best pay per click and SEO. Okay, that's spreading yourself a little too thick.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But. Okay, you are a logo designer. Well, motion web goes hand in hand with logo design.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Corp ID goes hand in hand with that. Layout design goes hand in hand with that. This isn't just a matter of spreading yourself thin and getting closer to Burnout.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

This, this is evolving and offering the customer more of what they need to. Like, imagine designing a logo and they'd be like, okay, customer, no, here's your logo.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

I'm not going to make it move for you. I'm also not going to make it responsive for you. And you know, you better take it to somebody else to do that.

[Sean]

How can I use this? Yeah, I just like it for you. You want from me? Oh, my.

[Massimo]

Burning out.

[Sean]

It's crazy. It's crazy because this, these are exciting little elements or is exciting. It's daunting. I will give, I will maybe give this person that. And that might present burnout in a different kind of way because it's, it is a lot to learn.

[Massimo]

It can be.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

But again, I think that this is an issue of stack smart, not stack wide.

[Unknown]

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

And, and again, make sure everything that you deliver.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Is complementary to what you do. And it's to your benefit to, to understand that all these do fall under umbrellas. Especially now with no code tools, there's no reason why graphic designers shouldn' be creating websites. Web design was always, she should have always been graphic designers under, underneath our belt. Just the reality is nobody wanted to code.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But now with tools like WIX Studio, Shameless Plug there, you know, you can create a full website and you have nothing to. You don't have to worry about coding. So why wouldn't you want to take that back?

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

Because now you're delivering the entire spectrum of deliverables. Now, I'm not saying go do pay per click. I'm not saying do SEO. That's.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's a, that's Special. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

But it's a very. It's not a smart stack. Yeah, that's a wide stack.

[Sean]

That's one.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

So, you know, do it all and get paid to do it all. And you get paid by being able to retain these customers for years and years and years because they don't have to go to anybody else. They can now. They can now stick with you.

[Sean]

Yes, yes.

[Massimo]

So that one. I, I totally, you know.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

All right. Well, we agree on that.

[Sean]

Okay, that's good.

[Massimo]

All right, here's this one.

[Unknown]

Ready?

[Massimo]

Here's one.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

Clients expect 24 hour turnarounds because they think you just drag and drop everything. Okay, so here's my debate point. Is this the client's fault or the designer's fault? If this is the expectation, I think.

[Sean]

That'S the designer's fault.

[Massimo]

Exactly right.

[Sean]

You got to be selling that wrong.

[Massimo]

Exactly right. You are taking. Maybe you're early, maybe you're anxious, maybe you're delivering stuff to the customer next day because you want to be on their good side.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But let's face it, you can't go backwards, okay? Once you, Once they got a taste for this, this is what they're going to expect.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

I had a conversation today with a customer and he was mocking me about, well, why do, why, why can't you just get it tomorrow? I know it doesn't take that long to do it. And I'm like, dude, like, it's not the point. You know, we've got other customers. This has to go back into production. You know, you will get this in two days.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Because it's, it's about a half day's worth of work, and if I have nothing to do other than wait for you, okay, I'm going to be out of business. Right. He's like, oh, I got it. I get it.

[Unknown]

I know, I know, I know.

[Massimo]

You know, this, this convenience culture that designers have created really has hurt the whole process side of what we do.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And customers, and now customers don't value the process because too many designers were too eager to please. I've had to set, and this is horrible to say, I've had to set designers here straight because they're, they're eager to please customers, which is good. But I warn them that these customers that they're eager to please will just get more of a taste and more of a taste, and then they will expect you to drop form. Then what happens is after two weeks, okay, they're like, holy, man. They're Expecting this, like in an hour. I've got this other job and I'm like, now why did we get to this point?

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

So when. Yeah. Might be slow, but you still have to remember that if they're asking you for a two hour fix and you have two hours, it doesn't mean you have to give it to them in two hours.

[Unknown]

Do it.

[Massimo]

Hold on to it and make sure that they understand that there's a process.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And that they might want it in 24 hours, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get it 24 hours.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

There's always exceptions, but as a rule of thumb, right. You know, you start giving them this expectation, it's just going to get worse and worse and worse.

[Sean]

Push and push.

[Unknown]

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

So unfortunately, in this case, this designer trained their customer to be like that and now it's their responsibility to untrain them from being like this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Plain and simple. Otherwise they're just gonna have to fire them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And that'll teach them a lesson. All right, all right, all right, we're on to the next stage. Yeah, this is more. I. I'm gonna capture or I'm gonna describe these questions as more out, like the fallout of being a designer.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And so that's what these next three questions are.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Like, for example, okay, we've gotten to this point now, okay. Someone wrote every job listing, is looking for a designer, coder, animator, social media manager, barista, clever. Come on. So the debate here is, are these expectations from employers realistic?

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And this is. This is tricky, especially depending on what kind of employer this is.

[Unknown]

This.

[Sean]

Can I say yes or no? Yes and no.

[Massimo]

Kind of. You can.

[Sean]

There is a. There is a. Like, what happened to the old days when. When web design and all that stuff was ripped from our hands and this UX thing was created.

[Unknown]

Oh, right, right.

[Sean]

And all of a sudden there's a whole UX department right now.

[Massimo]

It doesn't need to.

[Sean]

It was ballooned to a big bloated piece of crap. And now it seems like companies are trying to contract all that kind of stuff, kind of.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Massimo]

And they're realizing, okay, so look, let's face this, okay? Our job didn't necessarily evolve. It didn't really change. No. But the world, everything else did.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

And this is a really important point, right? Because again, as mentioned, you know, web design should have always been underneath our umbrella.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

It has to do with the company brand, it has to do with delivering the company message. You know, it's all layout and Design, but we weren't capable.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Because we weren't coders. And that was a very, very. When we're talking about smart stacking, that web design was very out there.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Now you don't need. Now it's. It's almost like the tools have evolved in the workplace so much that it almost does come back to us.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Now it's like, why would you get a network engineer to code a website? This is a designer's job. They should be doing this right? So, you know, with. Because the world has evolved to the point where all this shit's happening. It's all accessible. It's all. It's all easier. It's like the expectations for what we are capable of doing has now increased. So it's kind of a compliment to think that they would be like, oh, wow. So does that mean you can do this? And you can do this? Wow, that's amazing. It kind of makes you a super, you know. Well, I don't want to say a.

[Sean]

Superhero, but Swiss army knife.

[Massimo]

Sure, I like that. Yeah, that's better. Yeah, a super Swiss army knife. Because I led with super. I want to finish with super.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Sean]

Super ball.

[Massimo]

No, just.

[Sean]

That's one thing.

[Massimo]

But I mean, again, the reality is, you know, you know, like we just mentioned before, right? You want to build your stack.

[Sean]

Okay, that's in.

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah.

[Massimo]

And understand that this world is now, you know, accommodating. You know, the tools are accommodating. They're making our job faster. They're making it easier.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Listen, you know, you don't have to be a copywriter anymore, because now 90% of your simple copy, you know, can be done through AI.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

And that's a sad reality. Doesn't mean copywriters are invaluable. I would still use a copywriter to write a blog, but you don't have to anymore.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And this is now an expect. This is now the reality of all the tools in the marketplace. So, you know, is it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

But I'd say build your stack, not worry about. Build out that resume.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And make sure that you curate the. The kind of abilities that make you valuable.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

Right. And that's it.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

You don't have to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But then good luck getting that job.

[Sean]

That's the. That's the thing we. And. And I guess that's why my yes or no is because we've kind of cut that switch for ourselves, right? Because. Because we're curious and because we want to do other things, want to learn. So it's almost like we're doing it to ourselves.

[Massimo]

It's true. But the reality is there's no reason why we can't.

[Sean]

That's. Or why we shouldn't.

[Massimo]

So 20 years ago, even 25 years ago, when we used to have to hand code websites, a fucking website would take a week. A simple one. Yeah, a simple one would take a week. Dude, I could get something up in an hour. Yeah, okay, so again, why wouldn't we learn that? Because you know what? That's long term job security.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

So just shake your head and, you know, if you don't want to evolve, you know, with the expectations of the industry, don't.

[Sean]

Seriously, it's up to you.

[Massimo]

But then don't cry and whine about it when you can't find a job. Yeah, because some 20 something year old, new hungry designer is learning every tool because it. It's such a quick, easy learning curve. You know that. Okay, well, there you go. Give it to him. Because this kid's gonna do it. Okay, Number six.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

When everything's a priority, nothing's a priority. We're drowning in scope creek. So again, the debate here.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Is this the client's fault or is this the designer's fault? Oh.

[Sean]

It'S. Can I say both again?

[Massimo]

Oh, I'd like to hear. Okay, Tell me about the customer.

[Sean]

Well, the customer. The customer does things sometimes to see. And they say that's not what I wanted.

[Massimo]

Yes.

[Sean]

Knowing full well.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But partly it is our fault because we didn't do our research enough to figure out exactly what that. What the. The user is gonna. Is gonna be seeing. Do you know what I mean?

[Massimo]

Dude, I. I think. No, I think you do. So, okay, what we have done has made the client result in the way they have and made the client act and they have.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So if the project has turned into a mess.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Massimo]

It's because your process is. Is a mess. Yes.

[Unknown]

There.

Okay.

[Massimo]

So the real. It's not to say that a customer is never going to be wrong.

[Sean]

No, no, no. They. And they do this. They sometimes they will, they will pivot.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You know. You know, but the thing is, scope creep happens when rules aren't in place.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

And if you have a rock solid process to cover all those boxes. Look, we don't send for websites. We don't send any creative until the customer has approved the sitemap.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Massimo]

And they've accrued. They've approved all the wireframes and they've approved the mood. The mood board.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Of what they want for the website itself.

[Sean]

Right.

[Massimo]

If we were to jump straight to creative and miss those two. Jesus, the changes, the issues, the scope creep that we would go because we didn't catch all those things.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Again, it's not to say that the clients are never going to do it. We had this happen today.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay.

[Massimo]

Same job that, you know, you were talking about. I was talking to the customer and he's like, so how did you quote that anyway? And I was like, well, on a good note, this was on retainer.

[Sean]

Ah.

[Massimo]

And because you guys couldn't get aligned on your end, we're not responsible if we screwed something up.

[Unknown]

Up.

[Massimo]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't count those hours for. Against you. But because you guys were indecisive, everything you asked, we delivered and you guys kept on changing across your departments. I'm not being punished for that. You are. And he was like, oh, fair enough. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

You know, he wanted us to give him a quote and to stick to it, but it's like. Yeah, but that means you're sticking to one set of revisions. Yeah, that's it. Anything past that you're being paid for.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

They're on retainer because they are a little bit of a wildcat.

[Unknown]

Right? Right.

[Massimo]

Works for us.

[Unknown]

Y.

[Massimo]

How many more. How many more revisions do you want? How many. How much out of scope, you know, does this project need to get. Bring it on.

[Sean]

So that with non retainer clients, that's what you would do. You would charge them per. Per revision.

[Massimo]

Non retainer, non retainer clients. Blue Moon clients, we call them, or Blue Moon projects.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Because they just once in a while, right. We will give them a very specific sow. That sow says how. How many revisions are included and it says anything outside of this may be billed in accordance to. And then we cite, you know, one of the other parts in there that says hourly rate, what's included, what's not included. And yeah, we. You have to hold that. You have to hold that line.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

In this situation, this person's drowning in school creep. But again, scope creep happens when you don't set those rules up ahead of time.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So one of two options. Retainer. If they change their mind because of indecision on their end and they're messed up, hey, no problem. You know, we'll. We'll just keep building against it because it's an open check as far as we're concerned.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

But if, if there's a specific quote we have to follow. Got to be a hard ass, gotta follow that.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[Massimo]

And now a word from our sponsor.

[Sam]

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[Massimo]

And if you're worried about the learning curve, don't be.

[Sam]

Wix Studio is designed to feel as intuitive as your favorite design tools. Some designers here even say more. So that means you can jump right in and focus on what you do best. Designing badass brand aligned websites that'll take take your business to the next level. So whether you've had enough of developers holding you back or you're ready to finally step into web design, check out wix studio.com and take control. That's wix studio.com go and take back web design for graphic designers.

[Massimo]

All right, here's another one.

[Unknown]

Ready?

[Massimo]

Ready. They said they don't want your soul. They want unlimited revisions. Weekends. Just this one more tweak.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

That's what that was with the comment on Reddit. I. A lot of the same.

[Sean]

You see a lot of. There's a lot of.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

So the debate here is, of course, you know, is the designer being exploited or is this a lack of boundaries?

[Sean]

Lack of boundaries. For sure.

[Massimo]

100. For sure.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

100.

[Sean]

If you don't want to work on the weekends, that's your prerogative.

[Massimo]

Absolutely. It is, Right? But if you take that call for.

[Sean]

The customer, if you want to work on the weekends just to please this person, then you know what you're going to be working on the weekend.

[Massimo]

You teach customers, you have to teach them.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sean]

Them how to treat you.

[Massimo]

Exactly. How to treat you. Where your boundaries are, where your limitations are. If customers are asking you for stuff on weekends, okay, once, maybe under an emergency, but there is no such thing as a creative emergency. No such thing. Okay.

[Sean]

There are a lot of life and death.

[Massimo]

Yes, yes. There's no design doctor who's like, you Know, this logo, it doesn't have a pulse. Quick, give it a shot of adrenaline. Saturday night. It's true. Look, you know, again, the reality is if you don't set those boundaries with the customer. Right, the customer will keep pushing. Some customers work all the time.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we.

[Massimo]

We've got some customers and they. I can't believe they're always working. I don't want to always be working. And I tell them the same thing. I will give you, you know, everything as you want Monday to Friday between these hours. Exactly.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And even Monday to Friday, I'll make myself available a little later during the work week, and that's fine. Or earlier, because everybody, you know, our customers got different time zones. That's true.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So I'm a little more flexible Monday to Friday. But I let them all know that come Friday, 5 Eastern, and don't even reach out, don't bother. I'll ignore it. They can text me, they can call me, and I won't even respond till Monday.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And that. That feels like a dick move. But again, I have had customers in the past that. Will you give them a little bit?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And even the whole. Oh, I just want to talk about an idea.

[Sean]

Oh.

[Massimo]

Because then that turns into, we'll get three something for Monday.

[Sean]

Exactly. Now that we've. Now that we've talked about this, could you just buck it up?

[Massimo]

Yeah, make it happen. Oh, all right. So again, you don't necessarily get the clients you always want.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Okay.

[Massimo]

But you will get the clients that you allow.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And so if you allow them to reach out to you in the weekends and that you'll cater to them, they will turn into that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

So just set boundaries early and stop. That's it. This isn't an issue about being a graphic designer. This, unfortunately, is. Is his fault.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Or her fault.

[Sean]

Totally. And then that leads to. That leads back to burnout. Because, you know, you're. You're doing this all goddamn week. You know, you don't have any rest. So you're. You're just. So. This is just a toxic situation. So.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And again, let's face it, we've talked about this before. Burnout isn't a result of the industry.

[Sean]

No, no.

[Massimo]

Burnout, unfortunately, as a result of a lot of decisions or things you let slide, and they build up and you never, you know, you. You deal with them as they happen.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And then all of a sudden, you have this customer on the weekend, another customer who wants you to do. Customer who expects something the next day.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Because you Let all these things happen. You are now going to feel burnout, okay? And you'll get hit with it hard, and you will blame the industry. But the reality is it's not the industry's fault. It's yours for letting it happen and let it get to that spot. So just don't even let it get to that spot. Do yourself a favor. Say no from the start.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Nice. All right.

[Unknown]

Ready?

Yep.

[Massimo]

Now we got into the new section.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

This is Strategic Crossroads, because I think this is something that's really important. And again, I group these ones up because, again, this. This is a real, you know, reflection of what the industry is right now.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And what we're all dealing with. Right? Like. Like this one, number eight.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Clients don't want design. They want business problems solved.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Yes. So now this isn't a matter of our customers losing the value of design. Are designers losing the value of design? Have they forgotten what we're doing here?

[Sean]

Holy shit.

[Massimo]

I know.

[Sean]

Yeah. That's heavy.

[Massimo]

That's pretty heavy, isn't it?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

That's up.

[Massimo]

Well, because for somebody to actually say this in a blog that says being just a graphic designer is getting risky, and you're complaining about, you know, they want me to solve problems.

[Sean]

I gotta think now.

[Massimo]

Ray, Ray, Will, look. What exactly did they think that they were signing up for is my question.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Are they losing the value, the understanding, the purpose of what design actually is? And that's my question on this one.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sean]

Is this person a graphic artist, perhaps?

[Massimo]

And I wonder if this was the case. Right. Did they think that they were just going in to decorate?

[Unknown]

Yes.

Okay.

[Massimo]

But design with. That's just decorating without purpose is just that. It's just that you're just a graphic. Graphic artist. You're not a graphic designer. I mean, design is the difference. You as a designer, we are hired to solve problems. Big problems, sometimes huge ones. We're not just signed to decorate them.

[Sean]

No.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And let's just make them look pretty and hide the problem behind all this great artistic flash. That's not what this is. So I kind of think that either either, you know, you are of the group that is solving business problems, y, or you're the one who's just decorating them. So, again, what side of the fence are you on this one?

[Sean]

Wow, that's a. That's a really bizarre question for a. I thought so. I'm a designer.

[Massimo]

Well, and again, again, I don't think this was a designer. I think this was just somebody who just wanted to get in and just make things look pretty.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Massimo]

Make things look good. But then again, they're the ones who are going to be competing with AI, competing with fiber. They're the ones who are going to be complaining because it's a race to the bottom and they're getting less money for everything.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And again, clients, you know, if you're just selling the. The result of what you're doing, not the value of. Of what you bring to the table and the process and the problems you solve, dude, you're dead in the water. Yeah, so anyway, I thought that was kind of a funny one. And again, shocked that I read that one.

[Sean]

Yeah, that is a shock.

[Massimo]

But, you know, in. In a similar vein, okay, this one said clients want a designer and a strategist so they don't have to pay you for your thinking. So free thinking versus paid thinking is the debate question. I wonder here.

[Sean]

I see. Okay, so. So you just go in there and give them all your ideas, they take them, and then.

[Massimo]

And then not pay for them, and.

[Sean]

Then they don't pay for them, and then you get mad at that.

[Massimo]

My opinion. Shame on you for being too excited and blurting out ideas while you're in front of them.

[Sean]

There you go. So it's like a pitch meeting gone sideways.

[Massimo]

Right?

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And it's like, we're gonna do this.

[Sean]

And we're gonna do that.

[Massimo]

Shut up. Unless you're fucking Paula Shore, who can come up with the idea on a napkin in front of the customer and still charge them a million dollars for that idea.

[Sean]

Big ups, Paul.

[Massimo]

Good for you, Paula. Well played. You know, the reality is you have to hold back. You know, you can't be blurting out ideas. You can't brainstorm on the spot. You can't be like, yeah, oh, I got it. I got the idea.

[Sean]

Why don't we blank? Blank.

[Massimo]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

It doesn't mean oftentimes, you know, designers, I mean, once you get to a certain place, you know, once you've been doing this for so long, you've had so many customers. Customers. Ideas come quick. Solutions come quick.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

I have many times been in a client meeting, and I'm like, you're.

[Sean]

You know it.

[Massimo]

You're thinking, I already know what the problem is.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

I've already asked 100 questions. Yes, I've been here. This is my industry. This is what we know. This is what we do. I know the problem.

[Sean]

Did you blurt it out?

[Massimo]

If I tell them, it's not worth anything.

[Sean]

That's right. Right, Exactly.

[Massimo]

And that's in this situation, what happens, right, you have to start charging for your thinking. Your thinking is worth more than that end result that you hand over to the customer. Because that, again, that end result, we don't know what the future looks like. It could be rep. Easily replicated by AI. It could be in with the way it's going. In three to five years, there's going to be some AI tools that you'll be able to edit little parts, be like more like this, less like this. It will do the work of your hands, unfortunately. Okay, so with that being said, okay, what are you going to sell the customer? It's that process to get there that you have to sell them. It's the value of your thinking.

[Unknown]

Thinking.

[Massimo]

Okay, so unfortunately, it's not that they want a designer and a strategist so they don't have to pay for your thinking. Being a designer means, you know, being a legit designer is all about the strategy that we bring, okay? That's what people pay for. Not the little wiggy madig that you can design afterwards.

[Sean]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's important. But not, not like the, like the thinking aspect of it, right?

[Massimo]

Absolutely.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean]

Holy geez. Wow, that's. That's a crazy question too.

[Massimo]

Exactly. Right, so, so, you know, if you can start design, start charging. Start charging for your thinking, not just your output, and phrase it that way, okay? Everything you do, start phrasing it in the sense of your thinking, the value you're bringing, the problem you're solving, not the logo you're going to create and the lookbook you're going to create with thereafter. All right, number 10, AI isn't replacing designers, it's replacing the average ones. So again, you know, the debate here that I saw on this Reddit tool or threat, okay, and that's, that's what that, that's kind of where AI has always been playing.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Massimo]

Right. So again, you know, the train of thought that I have, of course, is AI doesn't replace designers, it doesn't kill designers, it doesn't even really kill design, but it does expose, you know, the flaws, the weak ones, the ones who really don't know what they're doing, or the average ones.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And I think that that's a really scary thing for a lot of people because I think a lot of designers out there, you know, aren't necessarily as confident in their strategy mindset. They're not confident in the value they bring. They're confident in making things look good, you know, and they can do great at Creating wedding invitations and they can, hey, put together a really snazzy post. But the strategy to get to some of these valuable deliverables, I think that, you know, they're, they're, they're falling behind on, they're lacking, they're not confident with. And so in situations like this, yeah. Tools like AI absolutely going to expose them. And if they don't level up, it'll replace them.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Sean]

Big time.

[Unknown]

Big time.

[Massimo]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sean]

It is a. Probably the most, the coolest, most important tool that we've had.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, like, available to us.

[Massimo]

Monumental shift in our space.

[Unknown]

Big time.

[Massimo]

Because now designers have the ability, even average designers have the ability with a little bit of work to, to level up their strategy game to the, to the same level as giant agencies and strategy consulting companies. You can get to this level, which means ultimately, you know, your whole strategy game is. It's endless, it's limitless in this case.

[Unknown]

Ok.

[Massimo]

If you're nervous about AI, it's because, you know, you're coasting through this.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

You're not leveling up your game. You're not actually, you know, taking yourself to that next level. And, you know, rightfully so, you should be nervous because you will be obsolete.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Plain and simple.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Sean]

Big time.

[Massimo]

All right, all right, all right. Ready?

[Sean]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Okay, we got like, four more of these.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Massimo]

These last four, I've grouped together under the hard truth. Oh, the hard truth, everybody. Because I think these ones, you like that.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Massimo]

Number 11. It's not about being good, it's about being visible. Oh, right. So again, this is one about should good design speak for itself? That's the big question, right? Should good design sell itself? Does good design sell itself? This is something that we've talked about quite a bit over the years.

[Sean]

Yes and no. Ever since the beginning of time, which when I started, there was a little thing called Communication Arts. Right. So all, all these great designers, all these awesome people. I learned about them in that magazine. Right.

[Massimo]

Oh, nice.

[Sean]

So this would kind of be Instagram for us old people.

[Massimo]

Oh, interesting.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Well, you're right. I mean, again, that's how, you know. And again, it's often times, you know, just like in this magazine, right. You always saw people better than. Than you knew you were better than. A lot of the people in.

[Sean]

There's that. Yes, because they were submitted and anybody could get in them.

[Massimo]

But I mean, even if we take a step back and, and think of just our own careers, right. You know, designers, you're like, how the hell did they get that they're not even that good.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Or I knew other agencies, and it's just like, how did they land that customer? We're 10 times better than they are.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But the reality is good design doesn't sell itself.

[Sean]

No.

[Massimo]

And that really does come down to it. You know what I mean? It can submit you in a magazine.

[Sean]

It could do that.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

In Communication Arts.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Great doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to do the job and get you. Get you that job, get you hired, get all. It's not necessarily it.

[Sean]

What's that buddy you were talking about? You said he was one of the best designers you've ever.

[Massimo]

Yeah. And.

[Sean]

And what does he do? Like, he's.

[Massimo]

Now he's living in Portugal on the beach.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You know, doing tourist posters. Good for him.

[Unknown]

Or.

[Massimo]

Yeah, that's where he's good. That's where he says he's going to. And I envy him for that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But again, you know, and he struggled with, you know, getting in front of people.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

You know, being able to sell himself.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And that's another something that a lot of designers go, this is true.

[Sean]

But you said he was a great, great designer.

[Massimo]

Best designer ever.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But if he's not out there and nobody knows who he is, that's it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

The reality is, unfortunately, is that, you know, visibility beats skill. That's the hard truth.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You can be out there. You could be at a networking meeting beside best designer in the world, but if that customer comes up and that designer is very quiet and doesn't kick, and the other guy is like, oh, I can talk business with you. I can sell this, I can sell that.

[Unknown]

Y.

[Massimo]

It really isn't about design skills at that point. Exactly.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So the reality is being good isn't good enough.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

If nobody knows you exist.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And that's the sad reality. So you know what? You have to work on your. On your personal brand. You have to build that portfolio up, up, and you have to get out there one way or another. That's a whole other podcast that we've had.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

But I highly recommend it. So unfortunately, good design does not sell itself.

[Unknown]

Yes.

All right.

Yes.

[Massimo]

Number 12. This is what somebody said.

[Sean]

Hard truths.

[Massimo]

Clients skip the process and go straight to mockups. So the debate here is this process or is this speed?

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

If they skip your process?

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

It's. It's. If they skip your process and just go to the sales, you did do it right. You didn't sell your process. Right.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Right.

[Massimo]

Well, you're right. You didn't do it. Right.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Because they just, they're like, okay, when do I get to see the exciting stuff? When do I get to see the logo? When do I get to see the mockups?

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

You know, and, and unfortunately, if you're saying that clients don't care about your process, they just want to go to the market. Well, dude, your process is your ip.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

Your process can be the most valuable thing that you actually deliver. Ok. You sell to a customer.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

It's actually not that end result, but it's the process that you go through to get to that end result that's the most vo. So if clients just want to skip that. Yeah, you didn't sell that hard enough. You didn't sell the value to that, which means you're probably selling $300 logos.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Because again, our process, the logo part of it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

That's the smallest part of our whole logo process. The discovery session. 10 times that had.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

On our. On our quotes. So again, you know, the process is where the value is.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And it's your job as a graphic designer to be able to frame that.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And then to be able to protect that and, and make sure customers don't veer from that, because that's what the value is. That's your ip, dude.

[Unknown]

Y.

Right.

[Massimo]

That's the way you go about things. Dude, we've done a couple hundred websites.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay.

[Massimo]

And. And every one of them have. Have followed the exact same process.

[Sean]

That's right.

[Massimo]

And we win customers not on showing them websites that we've done because half the time we don't even show them websites. We talk about our process and they know that it's like, that's what I want. Because that sounds like it's. And guess what? It will get a replicatable result because we've done it for 100 other customers before. And we'll do it for you too.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Massimo]

Yeah. There's no ego here on the customer's end. They don't be like, oh, well, I want to be treated special. It's a fucking website.

[Unknown]

It's.

[Massimo]

It's an end result that you are selling that they need.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And they want to go to somebody that they know they can deliver it.

[Sean]

Plus, you think if you went like back to the website analogy, if you went and delivered mockups right off the top, you're going to go. You're going to have to go all the way back. Well, we don't want this page to do this. And, and no you got to. You have to do the process, the steps along the way, get approval on the wireframes.

[Massimo]

You know, I have the perfect example for that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And I'm sure many of you have gone through this. It's like going through a project you're 2/3 of the way through. You've gone through everything. You've gone through the discovery session, everything else. And at the 11th hour, a new person joins the group. And that new person, they weren't exposed to the process to get no idea. And they like, why don't we do this?

[Unknown]

How come?

[Massimo]

That's just like we talked about it. It was vetoed out. It's going to be more this. It's going to be like. But it's that. That person at the 11th hour that everything up.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

So that's what it's like. If you skip your process and go straight to design.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

You will have that 11th hour person.

[Sean]

All the time who had no idea what was going on. Yeah. That would be your. Your whole project.

[Massimo]

Exactly right. It's true. It's true. So again, if clients skip your process and go straight to the. The mockup, they want to see the creative.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You're not selling your process as good enough, hard enough, and you're not protecting it enough.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Okay, two more. Two more.

[Unknown]

Okay. Okay.

[Massimo]

Being just a designer is like being a cook who refuses to learn how to plate a dish or write a menu. I loved this one because I love food. And again, this is either really deep or is really lazy, in my opinion. Right, right. But. But it's true. Design isn't just how it looks, which is the cook, who's. Who's creating something.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

This is how it solves a problem, how you present it, how you frame it. It's not just about, does the food taste good, just like we said before.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

It needs to be more than just taste good, because how many times have you seen slop in front of you, it might taste incredible. If it looks awful, you're not going to taste it, you're not going to want it.

[Sean]

Right, exactly.

[Massimo]

So, again, you know, you don't necessarily have to do every one of those things if you don't want to.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

But you need to at least understand the value. Every other thing there, the plating, the menu, you need to understand that. Okay. Otherwise you're just a fucking tool. You're just going to be a simple cog in a bigger chain of events. And if that's the case, then you will be replaceable in this situation, you know what that is? You got a chef and you got a line cook.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Which would you rather be, the line cook or the chef? So you guys, you know, I just want to be a graphic designer. I just want to cook the food. Guess what? You're not a graphic designer. You're the line.

[Sean]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Massimo]

All right. And last but not least, guys. Last but not least.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Jack of all trades, master of none, but often times best better than the master of one. So that's the actual quote.

[Unknown]

Wow.

Right?

[Massimo]

People always stop at jack of all trades, master of none.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But the full quote is actually, it actually kind of goes back to saying that, hey, as a generalist, there's a lot more value than just not. So the reality is, you know, do you specialize, okay. Or do you stay a generalist or. Or do you stack properly in must?

[Sean]

There you go.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sean]

I think that's the. The third option is the best.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Well, yeah, because you can be somewhere in between that.

[Massimo]

Well, kind of.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Again, people forget that there's two kinds of niches.

[Unknown]

Right?

Right.

[Massimo]

You can niche in a skill.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Just do logo design blindly and that's it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Or you can niche in an industry. We are B2B Technology Industry.

[Unknown]

Right.

Okay.

[Massimo]

So we.

[Sean]

But we do everything else inside of.

[Massimo]

We're a full service generalist agency. And the value I bring personally, Massimo Zeino, is that I'm a generalist.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

I see the bigger picture. I see how, you know, digital ads affect the social play. I see how your brand affects social. I see how, you know, your logo and how it's being used in the presentation improperly affects the bigger brand.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

How it reflects the package design, like I.

[Unknown]

That.

[Massimo]

That's my skill set.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But I deliver that in a very niche space.

[Sean]

Right.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

So going back to this. Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than the master of one is kind of the. The realm I play in personally. And I think that there's a huge value.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

If you want a niche, stack properly.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But we're in the kind of space right now that if the right skills can amplify your value, okay. But if you have limited skills, you are going to be replaced.

[Unknown]

Yes.

Okay.

[Massimo]

So if you are just delivering logos that end result, no process, nothing, nothing after the first fact, guess what?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

AI fiverr cheaper designers across the world, they're all coming for you.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But if you can stack properly, your skills or focus on an industry, okay. Then you still have a You know, you still have a huge opportunity here.

[Sean]

I think, and you could be the expert in that industry.

[Massimo]

I think so.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So I think it's kind of a. I think this is kind of like a play on both. But I think the reality is you have to be aware that either you have to stack back.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And be a generalist in that case.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Or be a generalist in a direction.

[Unknown]

Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But to just focus on an end result, I think that your future is going to be limited, personally speaking. I think so anyway.

[Unknown]

Right.

Yeah.

[Massimo]

I think you need to stack intentionally, I think, or you have to be, you know, the rare combination of being a generalist in a very niche space.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Not a bloated mess.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

But the reality is it's, you know, technology is moving so fast, and if you just think that you can deliver one thing and only one thing and don't provide any extra value before or after that.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Massimo]

Well, you're going to become easily replaceable.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay.

[Massimo]

Whether it's by another person, whether it's by an agency, or whether it's by a technology.

[Sean]

Right.

[Massimo]

So.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

So again, you know what? You have to remember that, you know, if ultimately, when I read this, if people. If people just think that their job as a graphic designer is to make things look good.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And nothing else, you're not really a designer. You are literally canvas with a pulse.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And that's who you are.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Sean]

You know, this.

[Massimo]

This isn't all about, you know, like, teasing on the red. On the Reddit rants. This is actual reality check. Okay? It is. This is the best industry to be in.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

But the reality is, you know, it's changing. It's evolving.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

And either you have to stack your skills appropriately and be prepared that you're not going to be doing just one thing all the time because you're just going to be decorating.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

Customers want more from you. And this isn't just the customer's fault.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

This is industry. You know, technology has changed. Tools are available. We are now like super career, super designers. We. Our skill set is. Has been intense. I don't even know how to describe this.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. It's been. It's been amplified. Amplified like nobody's business.

[Massimo]

Now what we are able to do is now so amplified that it's up to you if you want to keep doing it that way or if you just kind of want to fade off in the distance and just kind of go another direction.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Massimo]

My opinion.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Best industry to be in okay. No matter what. And, yeah, I'm going to keep learning. I'm not here for just a 9 to 5 job. I love this. I breathe this. This is. This is my passion. You know, being a designer for life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay.

[Massimo]

Is who I am.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And it has evolved so much the past 25 years. I'm excited to see what the next 25 is.

[Sean]

Really.

[Massimo]

I really am. But don't fool yourself.

[Unknown]

Yourself.

Okay.

[Massimo]

Don't fool yourself and think that, you know, what has brought us to today is going to take us into the future. If you've been coasting through as a production artist or as just making things look pretty for the past. The past few years.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

Good for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Massimo]

Don't think that that's what the future is going to look like.

[Sean]

I don't think so. No.

[Massimo]

People want more. People need more. Tools are there to amplify us and be more.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

And if you don't want to do it, there's going to be somebody hungrier, more willing to take on more because. Because they have the tool stack now to back up their skill stack.

[Unknown]

Y.

[Massimo]

So again, your choice on what you want to do, but I thought this was great.

[Sean]

So this is awesome.

[Massimo]

Yeah. Right.

[Sean]

And it was. It was an interesting read that, that Reddit post. I liked it. I thought there was. There was some negative things, but there was also some really positive, positive things where people who were just kind of like, you know what? Just. This is. This is a good space. Let's roll with it.

[Massimo]

Exactly.

[Sean]

Learn. I read the one guy talking about the. The. The growth mindset, and I was just.

[Massimo]

Like, oh, good point.

[Sean]

I love that. I thought. I just thought that was such a. Yeah. Be curious about stuff.

[Massimo]

That's right. Right. You know, again, great.

[Sean]

It's awesome stuff.

[Massimo]

We. You can play defense.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

Which is what a lot of people are doing. Right. Or you can build the skills, the right growth mindset, you know, the value skills stack.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And you do this, this will make you unignorable, you know, irreplaceable.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

And you follow this.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

You'll be happy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

You'll be so happy. Burnout isn't even going to be a thing. Your customer relationships are going to be great. You just need to understand, you know, what it is that you're getting into. You do this, it'll make you irreplaceable with a customer, and it'll make you enjoy this journey, like times 10.

[Sean]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's a journey.

[Massimo]

It's a journey.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Sean]

And learn and Soak up as much as you can.

[Massimo]

I think so.

[Sean]

It's awesome.

[Massimo]

I think so. There's nothing else I want to do, that's for sure.

[Unknown]

Yeah, right.

[Massimo]

All right, all right, all right. Okay, okay, okay. Enough of that, guys. I want to hear about what you think about this.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Massimo]

You know where to find us. We're on YouTube. We're on Instagram. We're on our website.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Massimo]

Leave us comments. We tend to be quite active in Instagram and in YouTube. You know, drop us a line. And don't forget, you want more of this, but, like, in an email form.

[Sean]

Oh, yes.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Massimo]

We have a newsletter called Anger Management for Designers where we, you know, we generally talk about topics like this. We have a comic in there. We talk about AI throw a prompt or two. You know, generally it's okay. It's pretty well received. But, you know, sign up on that, either on our profile or, you know, on our website. And. Yeah, stick around, because I think we got a lot more to talk about.

[Sean]

Oh, we got lots more. Lots more to rant.

[Unknown]

Lots.

[Sean]

Lots more to talk about.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Massimo]

All right, everybody. My name is Massimo.

[Sean]

My name is Sean.

[Massimo]

Stay creative and stay angry.

[Unknown]

Sam.

[Massimo]

Sa.

[Unknown]

Sam.