What Matters More Than Being the Best Graphic Designer with Will Paterson

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Angry Designer

Episode: What Matters More Than Being the Best Graphic Designer with Will Paterson
Date: May 12, 2026
Guests: Will Paterson (Designer, YouTube creator)
Main Theme:
Exploring why being the “favorite” rather than “the best” is key for long-term creative success in graphic design, with insights from Will Paterson’s career, creative philosophy, and experience building a unique personal and professional brand.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the personal journey and industry perspectives of designer and educator Will Paterson, focusing on what truly matters for a sustainable creative career. Will and the hosts dismantle the myth that you must be “the best” to thrive; instead, success is shown to be rooted in relationships, authenticity, and becoming a client’s favorite. The episode also touches on handling inspiration from design events, leveraging content creation, technology shifts, and the evolution of major creative tools like Affinity and Canva.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Inspiration & Setting Intentions

• Will and the hosts discuss how events and shows inspire designers but struggle to translate that energy into lasting change.
• Tip: Create a list of small goals and schedule regular time to implement new ideas post-event.
• Quote:
  • "Set that time, whether it's once a week, every Friday at the end of the week, or every two weeks, and then, you know, work on that one thing." (Host, 02:21)

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2. “I May Not Be the Best, But I Want to Be Your Favorite”

• Will shares his experience with imposter syndrome and realizing clients hired him not for being the “best,” but because he was their favorite—often due to authenticity and the way he explains things uniquely.
• Quote:
  • "I may not be the best, but I want to be your favorite." (Host, summarizing Will, 03:35)
  • "It's the way that I've explained things in a unique way... you're just the favorite for them and they really want to work with you." (Will, 05:20)

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3. Relationships Trump Raw Skill

• Building genuine client relationships and engaging in small talk is crucial. Clients often choose people they relate to over technical superiority.
• Quote:
  • "The relationship aspect of clients is super, super important. Being respectful goes a long way... take a genuine interest in their business." (Will, 07:09)
• Use clients’ own language during projects for successful communication (e.g., reusing their keywords when presenting work).

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4. The Role of Content Creation and YouTube

• Will’s YouTube channel hit one million subscribers, but he sees this as a product of longevity and consistent sharing, not a measure of popularity.
• Content amplifies credibility, often bringing in clients who have followed for years before reaching out.
• Differentiation: Be a designer with a YouTube channel, not a YouTuber who sometimes designs.
• Quote:
  • "Credibility is a big one. Any time you have a YouTube channel with a million people, that's a million people saying, yeah, I like what he's got to say." (Will, 13:12)
  • "I don't want to be a YouTuber that does graphic design. You want to be a designer with a YouTube channel." (Will, 14:23)

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5. Staying Relevant vs. Becoming a Content-Only Creator

• Will values keeping one foot in real client work; teaching rings true when rooted in current experience.
• Some creators manage purely as educators, and Will respects that, but for his own authenticity, he would only teach what he's actively practicing.
• Quote:
  • "When we stop doing client work, we'll stop teaching. I would feel bad doing that, even though it would be easy. I wouldn't stop making content... relevance really matters." (Will, 15:02)

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6. The Design Tools Debate: Affinity, Canva & Accessibility

• Will discusses his partnership with Affinity (now owned by Canva), pushing back against gatekeeping and praising tools that open doors for new designers.
• Affinity is a pro tool, Canva is broad-access—and both have a place, especially for the next generation.
• Quote:
  • "We want as many people to get into the industry as possible. No gatekeeping, hopefully." (Will, 21:38)
  • "Canva buying Affinity has set the playing field a little bit better. People have a choice now and I think that's great for every company and every designer." (Will, 21:50)

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7. Clients Hire You, Not Just Your Tools

• Concerns that clients wouldn't hire designers because accessible tools exist are misplaced; ultimately, it’s the relationship, communication, and style clients want.
• Quote:
  • "They work with me for me... The same way why there's like a thousand podcasts, but they like you guys." (Will, 26:50)

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8. Will’s Brand Strategy Approach

• Design isn’t just about aesthetics, but about emotional connection and brand experience—what the client’s audience feels before, during, and after experiencing the brand.
• There’s no silver bullet framework; the job is to reverse-engineer how icons like Nike or Apple make people feel and use those lessons to guide your process.
• Quote:
  • "Branding is difficult... it's like manipulating the masses... The choices we make are influenced by companies, you know, and the feelings and emotions that you get." (Will, 27:51)
• Brand strategy is about the collection of many intentional choices — there’s always a reason behind top brands’ decisions.

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9. The Future: Staying Satisfied and Legacy Thinking

• Will doesn’t have huge ambitions for global agency domination, but wants to keep making work he’s proud of—and, perhaps, to be remembered decades from now.
• Quote:
  • "We just want to make cool stuff, but also we want our work to be talked about in 100 years' time." (Will, 30:12)

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10. Advice to Designers (Closing Thoughts)

• Take intentional time to reignite your passion; try different tools, new styles, or side projects to get unstuck.
• Quote:
  • "Create something that you're proud of... take intentional time, if you can, to find something that reignites your passion in design." (Will, 32:55)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On becoming the favorite, not the best:
“I may not be the best, but I want to be your favorite.” (03:35)

On post-conference motivation:
“Set that time, whether it's once a week, every Friday at the end of the week... and work on that one thing.” (02:21)

On Affinity and Canva’s impact:
“Canva buying Affinity has set the playing field a little bit better. People have a choice now and I think that's great for every company and every designer.” (21:50)

On content creation vs. real work:
“You don't want to be a YouTuber that does graphic design. You want to be a designer with a YouTube channel.” (14:23)

On branding and strategy:
“Branding is difficult... it's like manipulating the masses... The choices we make are influenced by companies.” (27:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-03:14 – Event inspiration; translating motivation into practice
• 03:23-07:09 – “Becoming the favorite”; relationships and client dynamics
• 11:05-14:05 – YouTube milestones and their real value
• 14:23-16:08 – Content creation’s purpose; maintaining industry relevance
• 19:38-22:17 – Agency focus; embracing new tools and techniques
• 21:03-25:46 – Canva & Affinity, credibility, and industry democratization
• 27:33-32:49 – Brand strategy, emotional connection, and legacy building
• 32:55-33:18 – Closing advice to designers

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Final Thoughts

In a world obsessed with being “the best,” Will Paterson and The Angry Designer crew make a compelling case for authenticity, relationship-building, and finding your unique spark as the foundation of a rewarding design career. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting out, the reminder to chase what feels meaningful—and not just what looks impressive—will resonate.

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Find Will Paterson:

"Just type my name in. Yeah, okay." (Will, 34:25)

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Stay creative and stay angry!

Transcript

[A]

Branding is difficult, I think, to get your head around because it's like. I call it like manipulating the masses. I love to explain it as like this conspiratorial thing of like, your mind is being controlled, but. Yeah.

[B]

Will you please state your name for the record?

[A]

I'm Will Patterson. Yeah. And it's great to be here.

[B]

Oh, man, it's so great to be here. Great to have you here in the flesh.

[A]

In the flesh for the first time.

[B]

So what do you think of the show?

[A]

Yeah, I am like blown away by how cool people are here and how genuine and authentic I think is the word, you know, is in is. It feels completely different, the vibe, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah. Cuz you've been to a lot of shows.

[A]

Yeah, we've often.

[B]

Big ones.

[A]

Yes. Where. Yeah, the big ones, like, no shade on those. You know, I think you. They serve a purpose. But this one feels very family oriented, you know, like everyone knows everyone and if you don't know anyone, then you, you, you become known to everyone very quickly. Yeah. Very quick.

[B]

Everybody's so awesome.

[A]

And it's very inspiring as well. Yeah, it's right. So many people who are so talented. Yes. And you come away with very inspired. You know, you're not, you're not coming away thinking, oh, I'm. I'm bad at this. You come away thinking, yeah, it's like, I can do that. Yeah. And I can do that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love this. I'm gonna try this. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

For the record, we did an episode about what you should do after. After when you get home. Because what happens? People get so jazzed off, they get so excited. We're guilty of it just as much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they go home and they want to implement everything and then it. Life kicks in. Yeah. And they forget everything.

[A]

And reality sets back, doesn't it? Of like. All right, the back. Back to. I. I had that, you know, during the last talk where I started to think, I've got a lot of things to do when I finish this. And Naomi felt the same, I think. And you know, how. How did you say you would. How do you fix that? Is that.

[B]

So it was like, was setting a small goal, taking notes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And then setting small goals to work on, setting aside. You know, we had like two hours every two weeks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to implement what new things you tried. Just small changes.

[A]

Small changes.

[B]

Right. Because what will happen is you'll get back and you'll be just jumping right into work and you'll keep pushing this as so it's set that time, you know, whether it's once a week, you know, every Friday at the end of the week or every two weeks. And then, you know, work on that one thing.

[A]

So intention list. Right.

[B]

Make a list of the things you want to do and then take them one at a time. Right. By making that list, you won't forget because it's. It's intoxicating.

[A]

It is. It isn't really cool. I like the word jazzed up. That's what it feels like. Yeah. Let's make it intentional time. You know, when we go back, when life kicks in. Right.

[B]

You know, because what you learn, I mean, inspiration, you'll learn new techniques. Right? Yeah, that's. Talks are all fantastic and you want to implement them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then you get right back into. Because you're weak behind and you've got emails built up and jobs are waiting and then nothing ever happens. This is stuff that actually will change our. Our world, our. Our lives, our. Our work, the way we work.

[A]

So it's an incredible gift, isn't it?

[B]

Yes, it's. Curse is also another word.

[A]

I would agree. Yeah, it's good.

[B]

So, okay. I loved your talk yesterday.

[A]

Awesome. Thank you. Okay.

[B]

And again, it was like the big aw at the end.

[A]

Y.

[B]

Everybody like totally fell in love with you.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Cuz you're so sincere. I may not be the best, but I want to be your favorite.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah. What an awesome. Yes. Angle on that. Like, that's brilliant.

[B]

Yeah. Let's talk about this. Because I think everybody struggles and they try to be the best, you know, designer that a company's going to hire. And we always say the same thing. They're not looking for the best. Okay. But I liked your angle. It's a little different than what I was saying. Okay, so let's talk about this. Where did this even come from?

[A]

So, yeah, it literally came in the talk. I said, we got this client who could have hired anyone and has hired everyone. So why the hell did he hire me? Is it. It makes no sense. Not that I was doing myself down. I was striving, you know, I was in attack mode. I wanted to spend time learning different skills. You know, I'm obsessed with typography, so I was. I'm one of those guys that will work out the why people read type the way they do. I love, like, conspiracy theories as well, you know, So I love to like, really dive right into the whys and the things that people don't. I think same with my wife. So, yeah, when we started Getting work, it was like, from this client and others, we. It makes you question, who are you? Like, who are you to work on this? So a bit of imposter syndrome will come in where you're like, why? Why, why me? They could go to, like, an agency or to this other designer, but they've. They've chosen me. And you kind of feel bad. Yeah. But then my wife was like, naomi. She was like, well, you're just a favorite. They just. She even said, I can't name him. He. I think he sees himself in you, which is weird. And I was like, really? I didn't. I didn't get that at all. I didn't get that at all. But with that, it was kind of like, okay. So it's the way that I've explained things in a unique way because I talk very strangely. I'm a bit dyslexic. Everyone knows is. I. Like, it's a. It's a thing. And, you know, it's just like, you're just the favorite for them and they really want to work with you. So I was still in attack mode working for this client. And then, you know when you present something and you're like, I really hope they like it, because if they don't, then I'm gonna feel terrible. Today we presented it and they liked it, and that gave me a bit of a boost. But then I started to, like, over time, with different clients that were getting. I was like, I am not the best, so why am I getting clients? I feel like I shouldn't be. So it's that imposter syndrome.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But then it just turns out, yeah, I was just a favorite. Yeah. Like, I. They knew who I was, they knew what I did, and I got on well with them. Like, I met this amazing guy in LA who's British, who, like, works for a big company, and we're hopefully working together on something. Not because I'm the best at all. Yeah. But because we get on. Yeah. It's who you know like as well, which I think is sad in the industry, but also really relieving because you could be new and get good work. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well.

[B]

And again, it's almost. I don't want to say there's an art form to it, but the reality is people don't talk and get personal with customers. Right. And have conversations, and so much comes out of just treating them like humans versus always keeping it so clinical. Like work. Right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How else are you ever going to get to this status? Right.

[A]

I agree. Yeah. Like, the. The relationship aspect of clients is super, super important. Being respectful goes a long way, you know, and to make sure at the start of every conversation you have with a client is to. How's your week been? Yeah. Small talk. People don't like sometimes, but if you force them to have it, you gain a relationship, you know, that's. It's like taking a genuine interest in their business. It's not about just getting paid. I'm more worried about whether, like, I do a good job, like, and I really want to make them happy with it. And explaining this in a way that the client understands this is the great thing about this. Like, credit staff. All the talks have been about the language that you use. Yes. Surrounding clients. You know, and I've loved that because I've always said it. You know, when the client says they want a strong mark, you don't say, oh, here's a bold mark.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, because they'll be like, I didn't want a bold mark. Like, I wanted a strong mark. So you've got to, like, keep these keywords. Right. And that's how I use AI Is that in recording conversations? I'll ask you, what were the key words for the metrics of success?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That I can repeat back y. And it works every time.

[B]

It does, right? Absolutely does. But you won't even get those if you don't initiate this small talk.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

Right. And it's. It's just. It's ironic. And I understand some people are uncomfortable with it, but it is such an important part of what we do. I mean, we're supposed to be, you know, empathetic. We're supposed to understand people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you do that if you don't talk to them? How do you understand the problems that their company's having or that they're having?

[A]

Yeah, that's it. And I think it's easier for me to say because they already know me a lot of the time because they've checked my video, then they've gone to Instagram, then they've gone to my website and they've seen the work. So I've hit all the funnel. It's like a funnel, right? Yeah. So it's easier for me because they already kind of know me. But then for Naomi, they've never met Naomi.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She just goes straight into it. She's just, like, talking, and she doesn't care what they think. It's just, how's your week been? Like, what's your main goal? Ask them a question. About themselves and see how they answer it, you know, like find the meaningfulness of it. And even if you do a bad job, they still like you. They'll be gentle with you. Yeah. Anyway, they'll push you, you know, to a different way. Yeah. So. Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

Right? That was wild.

[B]

Did you even know? Did you plan this or they just, they were doing it? They, they blindsided you on this one.

[A]

So we was, me and him, we sat near the desk with Lee, one of the guys who does the socials, and Naomi's like, we're like 70 away from like a million. And I was like, okay. So I said, I will go up on stage and I'll say during the YouTube bit, like, everyone get your phone out. And that's a good idea. Yeah. Anyway, I go behind the curtain, I'm about to go up and I have my introduction all set up and I know. And then I started hearing him talking about, everyone, pull out your phone.

[B]

He stole your thunder.

[A]

Yeah, well, no, it was actually, actually really good because I was backstage thinking, ah, we're not gonna hit this. People aren't gonna do that. But I was just like, you know, Refreshing the analytics on my phone.

[B]

Yes. And it just jumped and then it went up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it hit a million.

[A]

Yeah. I'm so shocked about that. Dude.

[B]

So now you have like more followers than most of the cities in the world do.

[A]

That's wild.

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like our whole city, Kishner, Waterloo, Cambridge doesn't even have a million people. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[B]

It is insane. So you've touched a lot of people.

[A]

That's it. And it's longevity, isn't it? The way I see follow account is how long you've been doing it for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not how popular you are.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

It's a vanity number.

[B]

And this is what, 15 years? No, you started into 2012.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So, wow, dude, you're one of the OGs in this.

[A]

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. 2012, like had no choice. I just wanted to do. I knew it would help, so I guess I had nothing else to do and I thought it might work. You know, you never know. I had a friend who would do design content on there who do the channel, speed up videos. Yeah. And I thought, you know, I can't do that, but I can teach how I did something. And it just evolves, you know, over time.

[B]

Very cool. So, and I know we've talked about this in the past, but I mean, does it still help you land work? Does it still help you with credibility? Like, how is operating the YouTube channel still benefiting your business?

[A]

Yeah, credibility is a big one. Any you have a YouTube channel with a million people, that's a million people saying, yeah, I, I like, you know, I like what he's got to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it does boost credibility.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think client wise, you know, the times we changed our portfolio and restructured it so we get specific, specific type of clients. That's where we get the clients. Yes, but they've already been following me. So I've, like Naomi sent me an email the other day. We're working with a client now. And apparently he emailed five years ago and he said no, but he's been watching me for the five years since. Wow. Yeah. And Naomi literally said, well, you must have still been his favorite. You know, I don't know why I said no or we said that. I don't remember remember why. But something, you know. But he's still working with us now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's like, I think what it is with, with YouTube is, is it's, it really validates what people think about you and it can help you gain Clients. But then if you restructure your portfolio, that's really where the clients will come. Yeah, agreed.

[B]

100.

[A]

You don't want to be a YouTuber that does graphic design. You want to be a graphic, a Designer with a YouTube channel. Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's like.

[B]

And that's actually a really important point because you still are active in the space. You still run your agency. You do this on a daily basis. A lot of YouTubers, the content creators.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think they actually have legit. I mean, what they're. What they're advising. I swear it feels like it could be just spit out of AI or something. And they're just. They know how to be entertaining or maybe whatever. How important do you think it is for. I mean, besides for the authenticity side? For, for. For a content creator to still be active in the space?

[A]

It depends. So I know a few, like, who aren't active and they're amazing at what they do and you can spot them everywhere. They've just decided they don't want to work with clients. Right. And thus I fully on with them. If they want to do that, go and do it. For us though, we, when we stop doing client work, we'll stop teaching. Yes. I don't feel like I would feel bad doing that. Even though it would be easy. I wouldn't stop making content. Yes. I would just want put myself as like, oh, it works for me. So it might work for you. Because then things shift so fast. If I stopped doing the client work two years ago when AI was happening and then I'm still talking about like that now, then people will be like, shut up. Like, you don't know. What is this? This is like two years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So relevance really matters, I think, for me. But also we're trying to shift our content into more of how we do the work. Instead of teaching, we want people to. We want to paint a picture of how we do something so they take something away from the process.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like a fly on the wall. We want people to see how I've designed a logo and that. Or like a brand project. And that just requires me shoving a camera in the corner sometimes and recording for an hour of me just doing something on my screen.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And my poor editor has to find all the best bits.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And put it together and hopefully show the. The workflow. Right. So that's what I love about it, is to see the craftsmanship in what people do. And YouTube's amazing. Amazing for that.

[B]

For that. Exactly.

[A]

Because it's Authentic. It's raw, isn't it? Yeah. If you can do that. Right. I think.

[B]

Do you think though for. I mean, for you or for some of the other people not. Well, no, I think you almost said it. Just like how long of a duration you have if you stop doing the craft but still continue on doing the videos. Do you think you have. But I mean, we know our. This space is going so fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Like, are there some fundamental truths that are just going to be timeless?

[A]

Of course. Yeah. No, I think it's fundamental. Yeah. You can be a design teacher, not do design like 100. It's just like you. You be limited in what you know. Like you only know what you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Experience gives you stuff to know. So I think, I think I say that isn't. For me personally, I wouldn't teach. I'm not having. I don't want to say that anyone else who stops doing design work shouldn't teach. I. I feel like people like me, specifically who do teach it, need to be in the industry just longer, if that makes sense. I'm probably making a pigsy of how I'm explaining this, but. And I don't want to offend anyone.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, actually now I want to. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're allowed to offend on this channel.

[A]

No, but for me personally, I wouldn't do it because I feel like I'd make different kinds of content. Like for instance, where I'm working on a video now, it's kind of a vox animated style of how to choose the right font, where we go into the history of typography. That's for me. Yes. That's the type of video I do like after, if I wasn't doing client work because I want my channel to function like this. I want to get a client project and I want to film it. Then I want to get paid from the client project and I want to share it as a portfolio piece of my channel. Yes. Cinematically recorded. Amazing.

[B]

What a great concept.

[A]

That's awesome. Yeah, it seems to work really well because it means I don't have to create another video.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I just have to record what I'm doing anyway.

[B]

Is it weird that. Because you're not. Do you have someone who's recording you all the time?

[A]

No, like I've. So, yes, kind of. And no. So I've got this amazing guy called Cam. He's a videographer, filmmaker and he works for us full time and he essentially is there all the time in the office. Recording.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If he needs to Be by record myself by using a slider.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like with this camera. So he's a slider. But then he will like, you'll notice in recent content he's been following me with it, which is a lot easier. It's always so much better to have someone there. But then other times when I'm just at home at night time and I'm just doing a bit of work, shove it on a slider and you've got a, of a bit of movement, you don't have to worry because, yeah, there's a bit of interest in the movement. Yeah. So yeah, I wouldn't like someone always in my grill.

[B]

A little strange.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People do it though. Yeah.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. So, okay, so your agency, what are you focusing on work wise?

[A]

Yeah, so we've, we've moved more into web stuff recently, which has been fun. Like with Framer, we love Framer. We are also partnered with them as well. But yeah, I think we've moved into. We do full brand or visual identities with strategies.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then we're also saying, hey, we can do website for you too. And we've been recently doing that. So other than that, it's been more like looking into animation using apps like Cavalry. If you haven't tried it, it's free to download it. It's insanely good. I've been using for about a year. Like that little pixel animation was cavalry. Ten minutes, you know, no presets. But it's, it's insane. So looking at how we can make things move is what I like. But also on a personal side, I just want to get more into illustration. You know, I feel like I'm very clinical in my work and I want to get into more of an organic, illustrative style. You know, that's my passion project.

[B]

I was gonna say it's on almost taking a step back and doing something a little bit more analog than, you know, stepping forward and God knows what the future looks like software wise.

[A]

Type it in

[B]

bluntly. Speaking of, you know, brands moving forward with you partnered up with an A company that is, is, is on everybody's hot radar right now. Right. You're. You're friends with, oh, I don't know, Canva.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. More affinity.

[B]

Have you gotten any slack first off for doing that at all?

[A]

Yeah, like a few bits of slack. Yes. It's been strange. So we have had people go, why? It makes no sense because you're a professional. However, I feel like affinity is the professional tool for me. I think we've already discussed this, like recently off camera, but it's more affinity rather than Canva, where it's the professional side. I really love the software. I think it's free. And me and Amy have a. Well, Naomi, my wife, we have like an ethos of. We want as many people to get into the industry as possible.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No gatekeeping, hopefully. And just have a tool that anyone can download for free.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No shade towards Adobe, no shade towards anyone else. But we feel like Canva buying affinity has set the playing field a little bit better. People have a choice now and I think that's great for every company and every designer. And Canva, you know, I gave it a bad rap, I'll be honest. Like, I've not said anything bad about Canva before, but I always had this thought of I would never use Canva.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

My presentation was designed in Canva.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. It's actually insane for presentation presentations. No templates. But I made my own. I input my brand and Naomi can go in and edit it, you know, and that's not. I'm not like plug plugging them at all. Yeah. In other apps too. Right. There's. There's a bunch of presentation apps.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. But I really like it for that sort of thing. Like doing my doc, doing whiteboards. I use them. I used to use Figma for whiteboards. Interesting. Fig jam. Yeah. Yeah. But just do Canva with my team. But yeah, I think it's going to take time for Canva to, I don't know, like get into a place where professionals are cool with using it, but they're more about the scale. Right. They've got the professionals and then they want the people in the company who aren't like the illustrators, the logo designers,

[B]

they want them to still be able to get creative.

[A]

Get creative, but also like be on brand so you can lock it in, which I really like, so you can't screw it up.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, it is interesting. And again, it was, was. It was good that. And they were one of the only people in the world to be able to give Adobe a run for its money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And affinity on its own, prior to the. The acquisition was. Was not enough.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Because they didn't have enough backing. So it was cool that Canva did this, you know. But then on the flip side, Canva was that one company that was, you know, some designers are like, oh, God. Customers now all think they can do what we do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where really Canva is just kind of the whole decorating it's all done for you. It looks pretty. Where affinity is still a professional tool.

[A]

It really is. And like I think when you need

[B]

chops, you need design principles and understanding to use affinity.

[A]

You do.

[B]

Where you could just be a teenager in high school, jump in a canva and make something look cool.

[A]

That's it. And that's, that's the difference. Affinity's got all the tools and that you need and probably they're updating on time. And I know, know the guys from infinity and I really love their mission ethos of like the artists first, like creatives first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they truly care. I've been on calls of them and the care exudes from the call. Right. And I'm not saying other companies don't. I don't want to say that. I feel like it's just a, a different thing. And for me right now I love using it. In fact, I was using it in its beta stage for client work in even though they told me not to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was dangerous but I accidentally did it. I accidentally just kept doing it. Right. But that being said, I still have to go into Illustrator. I still have to go into other apps because these are long standing. So sometimes I have to. For like if a mock up doesn't work in like if any have to go into another place.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Orever. There's like an effect that I don't know how to do in Affinity are going to illustrate Illustrator. Yeah, exactly. And so that's, that's the only bummer that I have to do that. Yeah. But like affinity for me has just been really clean of how, how I'm able to like make a logo and in the same file make the whole presentation. Like.

[B]

That's pretty cool.

[A]

That's pretty cool. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Or edit the image in that same file.

[B]

In the same file.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Makes sense.

[B]

You know it is, it's cool in that. And that's what, that's what I really like about the software.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm still on the fence and you know I've tried it but I have it. You know you've been using Adobe forever so. And there's some. I kind of think that their plays long term. I think it's going to be generational. I think that they're offering something powerful and free to the next generation of designers who just don't know it yet. So they have a long term play.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I think it's brilliant.

[A]

It's great for everyone.

[B]

It is great for everybody. Do you Think this partner, this partner ship has helped you credibility wise with customers?

[A]

I don't know. They don't care.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think they can. It's. So the partnership really is like, for other creatives, I think. I mean, it's very kind of them to want to partner with me because all they. They just know that I love the product. Yes. I think it's the same with like, like, you know, made by James. We just love the products of what they've created and the great software that it is, and we. We're quite proficient because we've been geeking out over it, you know? Yeah. So credibility wise, I don't think anyone cares because they like how I work. The clients don't even know. Yeah. Like, probably the difference, you know, as long as they get the file at the end and it looks good. Yeah. Then it's fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're happy. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Do you think that if people feel that they can use the software, then they don't need you?

[A]

No, no. They work with me. For me. Yeah. Like, it's a weird thing. Like mind. Yeah. So the same way. Why there's like a thousand podcasts, maybe, but they like you guys.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So does that mean just because there's someone else that's doing a design podcast, they won't watch you? Yeah. Like, same with designers. Right. Is it. And I'm not the best designer for the guy who didn't like me or doesn't like my work.

[B]

Yeah, I love that.

[A]

Yeah. And maybe we don't work well together, but maybe I'm not the best at something, but they really get on with me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the way that we communicate. So, like we just so jiving. Together, you know? Yeah. That they go, yeah, we want to work with you because in the end we get what we need. Yeah. And the experience has been good. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So, okay, so where you're still doing brand strategy.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So what is your process? Brand strategy wise? Because we really need people to realize it's more than just the end product.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Designers still can't get that out of their heads for some reason.

[A]

Yeah. Like, branding is difficult, I think, to get your head around because it's like, I call it like manipulating the masses. I love to explain. Seen it as like this conspiratorial thing of that your mind is being controlled. But yeah. And it is to some extent. It is. The choices we make are influenced by companies, you know, and the feelings and emotions that you get. Like, you know, Nike with the. Just do it. Makes you feel motivated. Yeah. And you know, motivated people buy Nike. You know, athletic people buying. Why is that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to look at how they did that. And that was getting images, images from a portrait photographer with the Nike slogan underneath it. Just do it. Like, just go for it. Right. You look at archetypical brands like that and work out back, engineer what they did. Read books. There is a book about the Nike thing that was really cool. But there's also other brands that you can see that could help you understand, I think, the strategy behind what they're doing. You know, for us, we essentially, the strategy comes over a process. We can't just like say, yeah, that's exactly what you should do right now. And that's a silver bullet, you know, doesn't work. Yeah. So the strategy really is how do we connect the audience emotionally and the ability to spend with the brand in a way that makes both of them feel good. So that's simple as that is. Yeah, simple the better.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That is easy. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. It's a daunting task.

[A]

I make it sound easy. I just like to. I say things to make it sound easy, but it's not, you know, otherwise I confuse myself. It's like, it's different for everyone, though. There's no framework.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Right, right. What is the future hold for you guys?

[A]

Future? I'm not sure.

[B]

I love that piece was like, oh, my God. That was the thing.

[A]

Should have been on that. Yes, exactly. I don't know. I think we wanted. We were talking about this the other night because Naomi was asked by. I think Chris do asked Naomi when I wasn't there, I knew he was like, I. I don't know. I think we just love doing. What we're doing now is we love working with brands and we also love employing people in our company to like bounce pad off of us.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

We enjoy the process of it. I think we want to just get better at what we do, but we find great satisfaction in it. So we don't have like a vision of we want to be, you know, like up here and working for this company. We just want to make cool stuff, but also we want our work to be talked about in 100 years time. Cool. So that's probably the ego bit, you know, when I'm dead, people, I want them to know that that was me. Well, it is.

[B]

It's a neat idea that, you know, like, what are you going to create that, you know, somebody in the future won't want to redo update or anything. Right. So that's, that's actually challenging. That's. That's a, A good bar to set yourself.

[A]

I don't even know if it's possible. Like, you don't know what the future's got. This is true.

[B]

It's changed so much.

[A]

Yeah. In, in, you know, our time, like the design, the execution, everything.

[B]

All this.

[A]

Yeah. Stuff. Right. Like, it's wild. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, you're right.

[A]

It may probably just be typing or something. Yeah. I love somebody for that. Yeah.

[B]

Well, and I think all the more reason why it's important to be able to, like, put in place a brain strategy and be able to. Because somebody, somebody has to articulate whatever they're prompting, whatever they're typing in. Right. But even, even more so at a bigger level, they have to be able to see the whole architecture.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The brand architecture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that's where the brain strategy plays in. That's where it's like. It, it's. It's almost like you've got to almost back up and go higher and higher. Higher level.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You got to like. And I think the way that you explain it is really good. And the way that I think of it is backwards is in, like, work out what you want the consumer to feel like. Remember, it's all about. If you're doing strategy, it's about consumerism. So you got to think about what do they think at the end.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When they walk in. If you walk into an Apple shop, the strategy is to look the same everywhere.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In England, you go into an Apple shop, it's the same as in America. Maybe the gurus are different or whatever they're called, but the lighting, same, the wood's the same, the overall vibe is the same. Yeah. That's just. That's part of a strategy that they put in place. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that people could physically touch the products and play with them and get to feel like the owner. Learn it. That's a strategy. Yeah. And it's always about taking it a back step in your mind of why question everything in another person's brand. So if you've got. If you're working for, let's say, another tech firm and they want to do something similar to, like, Apple, then just ask the question, why have they done this? And never expect, Never think. That it was an accident.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That it was just like. It just happens. Yeah, yeah. There's always a reason. There's a reason for it. Yeah. And strategy is just a bunch of of reasons put together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's so true. Right?

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, what do you want? What do you want to leave our angry designer listeners?

[A]

Yeah. Just create. Create something that you're proud of. Like, if you're working on something now and you feel like you're in a rut, take, as you were saying before, take intentional time, if you can, to find something that reignites your passion in design, Whether that's doing something different, using a new tool guest and just design gang, grid it. Yeah.

[B]

Wait, after here, you're. You're not going back home? You're going to California? Yes.

[A]

La.

[B]

That's pretty cool.

[A]

It will be. Yeah. We're going to c. Create with. With affinity to do, like, a little workshop. So be fun. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, buddy, it was so awesome to meet you in person, honestly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I love this. I love events like this. We would have been just. Not that it was bad with digital, but this is really cool.

[A]

Yes. I'm blown away. I saw you guys. When I saw you, I was like, yes, we saw you in the hotel, like, these guys.

[B]

What I was shocked with is how tall you are.

[A]

Exactly. Like, said it on a reel before I came here is I am taller in real life than you think.

[B]

Like, oh, my God. I thought. I thought you were going to be like, yeah, bite size like us, you know, like 5, 6, 5, 8.

[A]

I think it's the camera angle. I need to change that. I want. We look like a hobbit or something. When I come here and I'm, like, looking down, I can see everything over everyone. High fiveing over everyone's heads. No.

[B]

Oh, buddy. Dude. Thank you so much for coming on.

[A]

Thank you so much, guys.

[B]

All right, guys, I hope you got a great treat with this with our friend Will Patterson. By all means. Where are they going to find you?

[A]

Just type my name in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's everywhere else. On behalf of myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Sean and Will, stay creative and stay angry. Sa.