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The Art of Sales with Art Sobczak
297 GUEST: How to Prevent Stuck Deals, and Get them Unstuck if they Do, with James Muir
00:31:35
An even bigger problem than losing out to a competitor is losing a deal due to no decision. James Muir wrote an entire book on how to prevent deals from getting stuck in the first place, and then how to get them unstuck. In this...
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- [00:02]
Art Sopcich
You are listening to the Art of Sales. Everyone sells every day and this is your source for conversational real world sales and prospecting methods that you are comfortable using and that get results you'll help people buy instead of pushing them into being sold. Here's your host, Art Sopcich.
- [00:24]
On this show we focus a lot on making initial contact with prospects, creating interest and getting them engaged so that we can enter into a meaningful sales conversation and sales process. Then after that point, what actually is a huge problem for salespeople is when things progress, but then they stall out. And our guest today is an expert on how to deal with that challenge and has written a brand new book about that and he's going to be sharing lots of wisdom from it here today. James Muir is the founder and CEO of Best Practice International and the bestselling author of three books including the one we'll talk about today, Unsticking Deals, and the number one book on closing sales, the Perfect Close. James is a 30 year veteran of sales, having served in every role from individual contributor to executive vp. His mission is to make the complex simple. James has extensive background in healthcare where he is sold to and spoken for the largest names in technology and healthcare, including hca, Tenet, Catholic Healthcare, Ben or Dell, IBM, and the list goes on. James is one of our very few returning guests and his previous episode is one of our most popular where he gives really an entire training session on how to use his perfect clothes and that's episode 115. So after you listen to this one, go listen to episode 115@theartofsales.com James, welcome back.
- [02:07]
James Muir
Art. Thanks for having me back. I must have been okay that first time.
- [02:10]
Art Sopcich
Oh my God, it was amazing. And people are going to hear. As I went through this book I was blown away. But before we get into that, for those who aren't familiar, tell us a little bit about your background and what you do every day.
- [02:26]
James Muir
Sure. So people might be surprised to know that I actually lead two lives. I am an SVP of sales for a $40 million a year company in healthcare, the revenue cycle space. So I got my own teams and we're out there, you know, duking it out in the streets every day just like everybody listening to this show. And I'm also the founder, like you just mentioned, of Best Practice International and I've written a few books and most people know me from the book the Perfect Close. But that whole business and those books are a labor of love for me because I very much love speaking and I very much love teaching.
- [03:00]
Art Sopcich
Well, it shows in your writing that you actually walk the talk because as people go through it, we can see that everything comes from experience and practice. And we're going to be talking all about that. So about the book Unsticking Deals, what was the inspiration for that?
- [03:17]
James Muir
Well, you know, ever since I published Perfect Clothes, I'd been helping organizations all over employee for their close ratios. And when I started doing that, I noticed a really interesting pattern. You know, a lot of times people would call you in and they'd want to start this conversation about, about how to get commitments. And then after you end up doing some discovery with them, very often the conversation would turn into things about targeting or messaging or prospecting or motivation or all these other possible reasons that they might not be closing as much as they'd like. And I. And I guess that's probably natural, right? I mean, the most obvious thing that's not happening in their lives is that sales aren't coming in. So that's gotta be a closing problem, right? So they called the closing guy to come in. Um, but after thousands of these conversations, almost half the time, the root cause of the, the closing challenges really wasn't about asking for commitments at all. Instead, the root cause would fall into basically one of three very simple categories. And as it turns out, that's the three categories of why deals get stalled. And so once you understand what the root cause of, of why your deal is stuck is, there's some really straightforward strategies that you can employ to unstick them. And I think you and I both read a lot and I, I have clients that would say, well, what, you know, drag me towards a resource. And I could not find a resource out there that I could say, hey, read this book. It'll tell you how to unstall your bloated pipeline full of opportunities. So I ended up just writing it.
- [04:42]
Art Sopcich
That's interesting. So this book was actually a result of your other book.
- [04:47]
James Muir
That's right.
- [04:49]
Art Sopcich
And you know, when I first heard about the title, I think you announced it on social media and it was probably, I don't know, a year before you were even going to, to publish it. Unsticking Deals. And I thought to myself, well, the best way to deal with a stuck deal is to prevent it from getting there in the first place. And then of course, that's what you say in the book and you give five ways to avoid those. So tell us about those.
- [05:15]
James Muir
Yeah, sure. So, yeah, the truth is, it's far better to prevent a deal from sticking than try to, you know, go after some strategy to unstick it after they've got installed. And so there are certainly more strategies than this. But I go into some detail on five very overlooked strategies that can help prevent your deals from ever sticking in the first place, which I think is the best strategy. And so those five are securing executive sponsorship, anticipating and throttling information. The perfect close, creating a mutual action plan and reviewing proposals with clients face to face. Now, we could drill down on any one of those that you might want, but probably the most popular is securing executive sponsorship and creating a mutual action plan. Although Anthony Annarino, who wrote the forward to the book, was he thought reviewing proposals with clients face to face, while a very obvious, you know, strategy, is a very underutilized strategy. So I don't know where you want to go with this, but we can cover any of that.
- [06:15]
Art Sopcich
Well, actually, let me comment on reviewing the proposal face to face, because that's something I've been doing for years, actually, not face to face, because I'm the phone guy, right. And what I would always tell people is that I much rather write agreements than proposals. So before even writing a proposal, I would tell people, here's what's going to be in the proposal, which is essentially what you guys are talking about as well. So you're going through it before you actually send it to them. So you have the opportunity to, of course, discuss it and fix anything that might be a roadblock in the process. Right?
- [06:49]
James Muir
Yeah. And let me tell you what's so awesome about just that practice, a very simple practice that you just did, is I, after talking to salespeople and I've got all these surveys and all this data, and the most common scenario when people tell me that they have a deal stall is that the thing that happened right before it stalled is they just emailed a proposal to the customer, and that's when the client goes silent. And so what's happening is they think that they've gotten everything they need from you now.
- [07:15]
Art Sopcich
Right.
- [07:16]
James Muir
And. And then it's very hard to know what's going on with the customer in their head. Did you get the proposal wrong? Is. Are you the. Is your price out of line, or did you get some aspect of it incorrect or. Right. It's hard to know what's going on because they've gone radio silent on you. If you'll just take the step that you just described. Hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna include this stuff, and if you'll do that, you. A whole bunch of benefits emerge from that the first is W of which you're gonna get instant feedback. And so when you schedule that call, you tell me, this is not a presentation, it's, it's just me making sure that I get the, the scope right. Because, you know, the school of hard knocks has told me that if I get it wrong, I think bad things happen. So I just wanna make sure that I've got it right before I send it. So they'll always agree to this. And, and then you get a chance to micro sell every little aspect of what's in your proposal. You're also coaching that person because that person might have to take your proposal to an executive to get approval for it. And so you're teaching them how to sell each of the little aspects or the elements in your proposal. And then if there's something wrong with it, you get a chance to change it and tweak it on the fly. And when that happens, they're actually crafting the solution themselves and then they get ownership of it. And so you would be surprised. You can, if you've ever had a client that went radio silent after you sent a proposal, just don't, just don't do that. Just always schedule a time to review it with them and tell them, hey, just to make sure it's correct, let's schedule 10 minutes. I'll go through it with you, make sure everything's good. And if you'll do that, you will really avoid a ton of stalled opportunities.
- [08:46]
Art Sopcich
That one is certainly brilliant. And the one you mentioned before that you think is most important, I read and I thought, I've never actually heard this before in my, in my 40 years of the way you were doing it. And you don't have to go through all of it because people, you all need to get the book. Okay? Trust me, you need to get the book. James goes through this step by step. But give a little teaser as to what securing executive sponsorship is, the way that you lay it out.
- [09:14]
James Muir
Sure. Well, getting executive sponsors, I have a bias. I like to start at the top of the food chain and then get delegated down. And so when you're with the CEO or whoever that top executive is that you're engaging with, you're just going to ask them, hey, would you be willing to be an executive sponsor? And then you tell them, hey, let me tell you what that means. And then you're just going to say, you know, when people go through projects like this, you know, their people are still trying to do their day to day work and so they get caught up in that kind of stuff. And so sometimes projects like this that you're trying to get done, they get stalled. And so I would love to be able to come back to you and, you know, report what's going on. But at the same time, if we bump into those kinds of log jams, you can help us out and help move the ball forward. They will, they know, they never see it. Like you said, it's just you alone asking them to be the sponsor. And I actually give them a letter. I have a letter that's in a folio that I give and I just hand it to them and say, here, here's what it means to be an executive sponsor. And I ask em to sign it. But you can do it verbally if you need to if you didn't have one with you. But they will immediately set you apart from everybody else because nobody else has asked them that question. But it literally, once you get agreement, you can unstick deals at will. At will, because you just go back to this executive sponsor that you started with, hey, you know, we're having a little trouble in this department. You also can report back to that executive as you're going through your project or your evaluation with the rest of their team. And I, I, I get messages back from my clients, so I know what happens. They sit in the meeting and then they bring up that they've gotten this report and that really sends a good message to the rest of the team that, oh, wow, this person is really paying attention to how we're moving along in this, you know, in this process that we're going through. And so that really lubricates the whole process. They, because the, the, the executive, you know, is communicating that it's interesting to them, they're paying attention and you get an open channel to them and that can be used to unstick the deal if you ever have any issues. So it's a very effective strategy.
- [11:10]
Art Sopcich
It is brilliant on so many different levels. And again, in the book, James gives you the actual letter that he uses. So that alone is more than worth the price of the book, as so many other things are. And one thing about this, James, is that I really think that you're misleading people with your title because you call it Unsticking Deals. And some people might say, oh, well, you know, I don't have a lot of deals that get stuck. But the fact is, is that just in the first section where you talk about how to prevent deals from being unstuck, could be a book in and of itself that would have Tremendous value because it's really a whole sales training program on a lot of best practices. And just one other observation here. Your book, the Perfect Close was an entire book essentially about a couple questions. Right. But it's brilliant because it talks about the psychology and how it works and all that. So now you have an entire book with about a thousand different how to tips in it. I'm going through it, going, oh my God, I need to, I need to get more paper and a new pen. So we're going to cover a few more of these things here. Again, the book is called Unsticking Deals. Everybody. You really need to get this. You can tell I'm enthusiastic about it. You had mentioned right at the top of the show that there are primarily just three things that cause deals to stick. What are those?
- [12:38]
James Muir
Sure. So, and again, this is all empirical data after working with, you know, several hundred clients. But there's sales issues, client indecision, and business case issues. Just those three things. So sales issues are things that you're doing in your sales process itself that caused the deal to stall, meaning you're, you're causing the problem. Okay. In the way that you're selling. Client indecision is when deals stall due to the customer's inability to, to decide. And there's, there's, that's an important one, actually. There's some nuance there. And then business case, when you survey people about why they think they lost a deal or why they think their deal stalled, usually they think it's their business case. Business case issues are when deal stall due to the business case or the offering basically that you're offering to the client. And so they're all, they always fall into one of those three categories.
- [13:29]
Art Sopcich
So you give five meta plays for unsticking those deals, and you say that all of these strategies are variations of these five. So first, describe what a, what a meta play is. You're just, you're in your words. And then if you can kind of give us an overview of what those are, then I'm going to ask you to elaborate on one that I found fascinating.
- [13:54]
James Muir
Okay. The reason they're meta plays is because they can be applied in almost infinite number of ways. So as I started thinking through what, you know, what are all of the different things you can do, there's really not that many different things you can do. There's really only about five things that you can do to try to unstick your deal. And so, but they can be applied in lots of different ways. So the number one is if the client's still talking to you, then inquiry is the way to go. You're just going to, you know, it's the most straightforward approach. You're just going to engage them, inquire and diagnose the reason for the stall, and then you're going to address it. So that's, that's the easiest one. You just talk to the customer and find out why your deal stalled.
- [14:29]
Art Sopcich
When you say they're still. Sorry to interrupt. When you say they're still talking to you, you're talking about when they're actually responding to your emails or your calls.
- [14:36]
James Muir
That's. That's right. Yeah. But a lot of times by the time they're. I'm getting asked about, you know, my deal is stall, what's happened is the customer's gone radio silent. And so the other four methods tend to be more oriented towards, hey, I can't get the customer to respond to me anymore. How do I get the customer to, you know, jo, how do I jolt them back into life with something I can say or something I can do that will cause them to, you know, resurrect and then have a, have a communication with me or a dialogue? And so probably the most common play that you're going to end up using is called introducing new information. And a lot of times clients stall because they've got some kind of incorrect perception about your solution, about your company. They may have eliminated you or they may have, you know, maybe they're considering other options. And when people have incorrect notions, you, you actually cannot tell them they're wrong. It doesn't, it doesn't work. People don't respond well to that. Instead, what you need to do if you want them to change, at least what the data shows, is that rather than telling them they're wrong, you need to introduce new information that shifts their paradigm in some way. And that's what introducing new information does. And we could talk about that. There's a, a concept that I introduce in the book called yes, and, and that is you can actually believe it or not if, I mean, if I said, hey, yeah, if you said, hey, my shirt is red. And I said yes, but it's also just a, you know, a hint of green when you acknowledge their, what they're stating and then you add your own information to it as a yes. And even though in that case it was essentially contradictory, people don't perceive it that way. They don't emotionally feel like they've been told that they've been wrong. Even though you did contradict Them. What this, the science shows is that people actually feel like you two are together more collectively trying to arrive at what the truth is. And so that's how this, that's the psychology behind what this play works is you're going to introduce some new information that will shift their paradigm and then that of course creates the opportunity again. So there is a million different ways of introducing that one and it's the play that you're going to use the most. And there I give you some. You probably know Stu Hennick, but Stu Hennick has a couple of whole books with, with really interesting ways that you can engage people by introducing new information in creative ways. So unique messaging is one of those that is very similar. You're going to leverage, you know, just different kinds of messaging to capture their attention and get them to respond to you. Usually you're going to combine that with the new information. Uh, so you're gonna shock em by using something unique and then you're gonna introduce some paradigm shifting information that will cause them to re engage with you. Um, patience. And some people don't like to hear this one but basically sometimes people deals get stalled for very legitimate reasons. Um, I was working with a. I, I mean I spend most of my time in healthcare working with a group in Tucson. I know you're in Arizona. And this group was having some coding issues, E M coding issues. And in the United States if you're coding and for any of the government contracts like Medicare and Medicaid, if you don't code properly, you can, you can be fined and you can even go to jail for it. And so they, they suspected that they had issues with that so they were asking us to help them with that. And well, some of these guys go completely radio silent. And, and so we, I tried all these different things but nothing happened. Well, long story short, what ended up happening is while we were going through our sales process, they got audited and fined by the government for the very thing that we were trying to help them solve. But it was so embarrassing to them that it had happened that they didn't want to talk to us. Now after it was over they called us back and boom. Our, our, our deal was super fast. It took days literally to, to complete our sale after that. But it would have been a shame to walk away from this deal because we misinterpreted the fact that they had gone silent on us. When in reality what was just happening is they had, they had a very legitimate reason to wait. So kind of the strategy on this one is Just you got to wait till they, something triggers them to make the thing that you're doing become a higher priority. And there, there's ways to figure out whether or not that's what's going on. And I mentioned those in the book. And then the last one is disengage messages, which is a play where you're going to communicate your intention to disengage, which ironically sometimes causes the customer to reengage. So those are the five.
- [18:58]
Art Sopcich
As I was going through the book, you mentioned Stu, who wrote a couple great books. We've had him on the show. I believe his books are called how to Get a Meeting with Anyone and then also get the meeting where he talks about using connection strategies which essentially are basically sending things that will get somebody's attention. So you have this technique called the Hail Mary circle of influence letter which certainly uses those techniques. And you tell me it's got a hundred percent success rate. So if you would just kind of describe that.
- [19:32]
James Muir
Yeah, for me it has. So by, by far my all time favorite, at least for complex sales, is that Hail Mary circle of influence letter. It's never not worked for me. And so I've used this, I've also used this idea for prospecting. Yeah, yeah. A lot of the ideas that you see here can also be used in prospecting like in Stu's book. Um, but what makes this work is new information that was play number two and, and social pressure. And to be candid, it is time consuming, but it is extremely effective. And so here's how it works. You're going to identify who your main stakeholder is. This is the person you want to reply to, your, you know, your effort, and then you're going to identify all the relevant stakeholders in this initiative. And kind of what you're looking for is you're looking for your stakeholders, boss, you know, a couple of stakeholders that are peers and maybe a couple of subordinates. And so, you know, in this example there maybe there's up to six stakeholders involved. And what you're going to do is you're going to write a physical letter, okay. And you're going to send it to each one of them individually. They're all going to get a separate letter. In fact, you're going to send that physical letter via FedEx. So it's going to be in a flat envelope. So you, in this case, you would be sending out six separate FedEx envelopes. Okay. And the letter is going to say that you have some new information that changes everything. But because things have gone Silent. You just don't know who to contact about the change. And for that reason, you sent this letter to all six of the stakeholders, or whatever your number is going to be. And then at the bottom of the letter, you're going to put cc, which means, you know, carbon copied who, who you else, you copied this. And you're going to put the names of all the other folks that you sent this letter to. And that's extremely important. And so here's what's going to happen. They're all going to open the letter immediately because it's FedEx. That'll be the first thing they open. Okay? And they all see all the other stakeholders at the bottom of the letter. And then they start thinking, oh, man, what if Bob, or whoever it is they're worried about thinks that this is something we got to do, you know, something. This is important. So this is going to cause them to have a conversation about you. In fact, I guarantee 100% they're going to have a conversation about you and what the letter. Basically, they all show the letter to each other and say, all right, well, who's going to call this guy back? And then they end up delegating one of them to call you back. And now that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to buy your stuff, by the way. It just means you're going to get another chance at a conversation, another chance to swing at the plate. And there is some nuance to the letter. So for unsticking purposes, you need to remind them of the original reason that they got engaged with you. And then you're going to briefly remind them of the value that you can bring. And then you're going to mention the new information that you have, but you're not going to reveal it entirely or they won't need to call you back. Okay, so let me. Let me give you, tell you a real story that hap. That I. That I experienced that I had to illustrate that. So I'm working with this group of neurosurgeons in Boulder, Colorado, and it's on an expensive IT system. And after, you know, sharing and reviewing our proposal with these guys, they went silent on me. And so after, you know, a bunch of failed attempts to try to rekindle a conversation, I thought, oh, man, these guys we might have lost to a competitor on this. And so I ended up doing what I just described. I sent that FedEx letter to eight surgeons that were all equity holders, meaning they were all owners of the clinic. And in my letter, I mentioned, I discovered A new way for them to acquire the system at a greatly discounted rate. But it did come with some legal baggage that we needed to discuss. Okay, so notice how this works there, there, they can see the benefit there and they can vaguely see the mechanism. But it's not enough that they don't have to call me. Right. They need to engage me to figure out what that legal baggage is. Absolutely worked. They called me back within 24 hours and we ended up winning the business. And just to satisfy your listeners curiosity, what I did is instead of having them purchase the system directly from me, I had them acquire it from a, what's called an IPA or independent physician association that was local to them. The legal baggage that they were going to is that they were going to have to sign up with the IPA and be part of the IPA in order to get that discounted rate from the ipa, which they were happy to. So ended up, my IPA was very happy because they got a new client and we ended up winning a deal that we thought was lost. That's basically how the Hail Mary Circle of influence letter works.
- [23:48]
Art Sopcich
Wow, that is powerful. And some people out there might be thinking, my gosh. Well, I, my deals are not that big. They're not at that level.
- [23:58]
James Muir
Yeah, if. What, if what you sell is like only, you know, a couple hundred bucks, it's not going to work. No. By the way, there is a way to try to apply that to an email, but the. Don't, don't. What you don't want to do is send a single email with everybody's name on it. That won't work. What will happen is somebody, one of them will reply, say, we're not interested and you're dead. So you would send the email to all of the stakeholders separately and then in the email body itself, you'd let them know that you also mailed it to these other guys because you didn't know who to talk to. So it's, it's not as effective as the, I've tested it, it's not as effective as the, the FedEx. But if, if the price point of what you're selling is lower, you know, than hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is what I was selling, it'll still work. Right, because the email's free, whereas the FedEx is so very long and tedious. So in all fairness, it is not efficient, but it is pretty effective.
- [24:51]
Art Sopcich
Well, again, depending, regardless of what anybody sells out there, the psychology of what you're using here will work. Because what we're doing is we're mentioning something that they potentially want. And then you're creating curiosity, you're creating a question that they want the answer to. And the only way they're going to get that answer is by speaking with you. So the key here is to, to have those two things. You always have to have those things, but it's always predicated on you, you need to speak with me. And yeah, email's fine. I would still, even if you're talking to one decision maker, send a handwritten note or type up a letter because those are always going to get opened. Right.
- [25:35]
James Muir
It's very differentiating because almost nobody does it. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:39]
Art Sopcich
James, we could talk for hours, we could probably do a full day, a couple day training program here, but we're not. That's because people are going to go get the book and then they're going to be able to devour all of it on their own. But let's wrap up. If listeners were going to take away, say, one big concept from all the great ideas that you shared today or you share in the book, what, what would you want that takeaway to be?
- [26:04]
James Muir
Well, so really a key element of what I think insight in the book that's very valuable is what causes customers to suffer from uncertainty, right. Or outcome uncertainty. And um, and much of what causes deals to stall is clients uncertainty. And there's a lot of things in your sales and marketing that you can do to eliminate that process. But what happens, basically, I'm trying to give the principle in a nutshell here is at some point the client says, yeah, you know, you're right, I think I should change. And I think that you're probably someone I should be doing business with. But then they immediately switch and they think, oh my gosh, but what if I do go ahead and this and this bombs out, right? So they become instead of worried about the upside, now they're worried about, oh, is there some mistake? And that that ends up paralyzing them while they're trying to figure out how to mitigate the risks. And so we spent a fair amount of time in the book describing how to mitigate that risk is people. A lot of times salespeople make a mistake, they assume that when the customer is stalling, right? Or they keep asking for more, more information, what's really happening is they're not totally sold on the need for the change. And that's not the case. What happens is they get the change. Now what they're like, oh my gosh, what if we do this? That's what they're worried about. And so the salesperson has to shift their strategy about halfway through the sales process from selling why change to selling that you can't fail and that that's it in a nutshell. But there's lots of ways of doing that. Um, but that's an important insight to be able to know, hey, when do I, I, I, I don't need to sell the change anymore. What I need to do now is I need to hold their hand and say, hey, look, we're, you're going to get through this. It's going to be successful, and everything will work great. And there's lots of micro strategies for doing that process. But that's probably the one thing I would say, if you got clients that can't decide, then what, what's probably happening is they're worried about the outcome. And you need to spend more time selling the outcome, the results, and guaranteeing the results that they're going to get than you are about telling them about the benefits of the change because they're already sold on that part.
- [28:10]
Art Sopcich
Love it. No risk scenario. All right, we're going to tell people how to get the book and contact you in just a second. But everybody, you know what time it is.
- [28:18]
James Muir
Your attitude will be, I am what they say it's the art of the sales squad.
- [28:30]
Art Sopcich
That's right. It's time for the Quote of the Day. And James, if you remember, we have a regular feature here called the Quote of the Day. And I know you have a quote that's very meaningful for you, so could you please tell us what it is and, and why it's important to you?
- [28:45]
James Muir
Sure. There is an ancient poet. His name is Alma. I don't know what his last name is, but on my phone every morning, every time I turn it on, it says the same thing, which just says, by small and simple things are great things brought to pass. And for me, that just reminds me that it's the very simple, you know, habits and practices, the best things that we do day in and day out that make the big difference over time.
- [29:14]
Art Sopcich
So true. And you share hundreds of them in your book, if not thousands. So tell people how they can get that book right now and anything else that you'd like to share. And by the way, let me just share this. James has some additional resources that you get when you get the book, so tell people about that as well.
- [29:34]
James Muir
Sure. So it is on Amazon right now and just within the last two weeks. The audiobook is now available too. So it's available on paperback, Kindle and audiobook and then the resources you're talking about. If you go to the website unsticking deals.com you just register right there and it will send you to a secure page where you can Download. There's about 600 worth of bonuses there. And one of them that's probably the most popular is, it's basically a little assessment. So if you've got a stalled deal, you can just answer the questions. It'll say oh, this is the root cause of why your deal stalled. And then you can jump to write that part in the book and then, and go to the strategy. So it should save you a ton of time. Like literally with that thing in the book, you know, in 20 minutes you could have all the strategy you need to, to, to unstick your deal. But. And then my regular website is puremuir.com p u r e m u I r.com and that's where perfect close and all the rest of the stuff that I do can be found. But I'm happy to engage with people on LinkedIn.
- [30:36]
Art Sopcich
How do you find, how do you find time for all of this?
- [30:39]
James Muir
Do it in the morning. That's it. I get on my early riser so I get up at 4:40 every morning in between 4:40 and about 6:30 is when I write. So I got another book coming out. So we'll, we'll let this one, we'll let people digest. Anthony Annarino told me that you can't, you can't put out more than one book a year. People just can't handle it. So we'll give this, we'll give the market a little time to digest this one and then I will, I'll do the next one which will be on referrals.
- [31:06]
Art Sopcich
Well, thank you for being here today and we'll have you back probably in a year to, to go through that one as well because I'm sure it's going to be phenomenal. So the book is called Unsticking Deals. And James, thank you again so much for sharing your wisdom with us and everybody else, thank you so much for investing your valuable sales time with us today. Until next time, go out and make it your best sales day ever. I'm Art Subcheck.