← The Art of Sales with Art Sobczak
The Art of Sales with Art Sobczak
315 Mastermind Part 2 - The Mindset That Built Multimillion-Dollar Empires
00:33:28
In this second part of Art's exclusive mastermind session recorded on a Mediterranean cruise, four extraordinarily successful entrepreneurs reveal the mindset shifts, identity traits, and beliefs that took them from startups to multimillion-dollar...
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- [00:03]
Art Sobchak
You are listening to the Art of Sales. Everyone sells every day and this is your source for conversational real world sales and prospecting methods that you are comfortable using and that get results you'll help people buy instead of pushing them into being sold. Here's your host Art subcheck.
- [00:25]
Tim Murphy
This episode is the second and final part of a very special Mastermind session that I did on a cruise cruise ship in the Mediterranean that was, well, actually a golf vacation with a number of couples from our country club in Arizona. Now in the first episode, which is number 314 that you can hear@theartofsales.com my four extraordinarily successful buddies shared sales, service and management pure golden tips and strategies about what it took to go from startups or very small operations to multi million multi location industry leading businesses. Now in this episode we pick up with about what really separates the top 2% of the population who achieve at the highest level from everyone else. And that is our thinking they're going to share. The mindset shifts the personal and professional identity traits and characteristics and beliefs and habits that help them build their businesses and ultimately personally exit for multi millions. And the benefit for you is that you can use these same ideas and strategies in your business and your sales and and your life to achieve at the highest level too. So with us you're going to hear from Tim Murphy who went from cleaning pools to starting Presidential pools in Phoenix and at one point being the largest pool builder in the US and has built over 35,000 pools. We have another Tim, Tim Barone, who took Vantage Mobility, a wheelchair accessible vehicle provider, from 5 million in sales to 350 million in sales. We have Darren Welborn, who built his civil engineering startup to over 500 engineers and 6 locations by not really acting like typical engineers, as you'll hear. And we have Louis Basile, who with his wife Tracy started Wildflower Bread Co. Restaurants in the Phoenix area by first testing recipes in their home kitchen and ultimately building it to 16 restaurant locations. So get ready to learn, be inspired and motivated by these high achievers and guys that I'm honored to to call friends.
- [03:12]
Host
All right, so let's talk about our thinking. You all either started from scratch or you took something existing but smaller and worked to build and grow it into something substantial. And some of your cases, incredible. So my first general question is what kind of beliefs and thinking does it take to have these types of results and how that, how did that evolve from when you started to where you are today or where you ended in Business. So who'd like to start us with that?
- [03:46]
Tim Barone
Tim?
- [03:47]
Darren Welborn
Thanks. That's a great question. I actually never looked at it, my career as work. It's the craziest thing ever. I looked at it as more. This is cool. I'm gonna. I was a pool cleaner as a little kid, and then now here I am building pools. And it was just. I was building a company, and I was hiring people and delegating issues and responsibilities, and I just looked at it as like a challenge. Every day, here I am. My competitors are like, older guys, older companies with their own mindset and their own way they did things. And I just wanted to do things my way and take care of the customer, take care of employees. And it was fun. It was fun growing a business. On first year, I built 20 pools. The second year, I built 53. 101, 153. I used to have all the numbers that every single year of how many pools we built, but up to 2,000 pools a year. And it was just fun. It was a challenge, and it really kept me going. I never looked at it. I had a. I would go to work, and I had my sales staff. We were friends, we traveled together. I did incentive trips with them every year, and I had them over for dinner, my Christmas parties. In the early days around my house, I just enjoyed it. And it was. That was really my mindset. It wasn't work. It was never work.
- [05:00]
Host
The guy that was building 20 pools a year had to be a little bit different in terms of your thinking, your outlook, and your goals than the guy who was building 2,000 a year. So what was the leap in there?
- [05:13]
Darren Welborn
Absolutely. So the early days, I would buy trucks, and I would turn the passenger seat out, and I had file cabinets wrapped around me, and I was the one who ran construction. But yet I would. That night, I would go in after I was writing construction to go meet Ms. Sister and Mrs. Smith to sell him a pool. So, yes, everything did change as the company grew. I had to grow. And so I think it was how I grew and how I delegated things off. And so I became more of a running the business instead of running in the business. So I ran the business. But I always made a point to be out in the field at least one day a week. And I really enjoyed my early days, actually more than the later days, just because it was really felt like I was really getting something done. But we're building pools and backyards that are going to be there way after I'm gone 100 years. And the mindset. Yeah, I had to change. I evolved. And it didn't only just change it. I changed the company. So we were always. I always tried to be, like, the first and forefront on technology. Different products that we used in pools, things that didn't work. I had a thing called the no list. Things that they weren't people weren't allowed to sell because we had failure with them. And so just different things. We just always were always rethinking, retooling, recalibrating, and change. I love change.
- [06:36]
Host
I would say, and none of us knew you when you were that pool cleaning guy, but I would have to bet that guy probably isn't that much different personally than the guy we know today. All right, who'd like to go next? So again, the question is, what kind of beliefs and thinking does it take to have the results that you did, and how did that evolve from where you started to where you ended?
- [06:56]
Tim Barone
I'll go arch. I think that I believed in a process and a system, and I believed in what I earlier called our core values, and I made it a goal personally. Once I went from two guys to 10 guys, to 50 guys, to a hundred guys, we grew internally. We have one small acquisition of five people. The rest was all internal growth. And we would start our offices by having three goals. If we wanted to start an office in another city, we had to have number one. We had to have a client that wanted us to be there. There was a big enough job that we could go and start. We had to have a guy inside or a gal inside of our firm that was ready to lead an office and wanted to leave to another city. And then we had to have it. Being in a city that could keep us going after that client was done. Had to have all three of those. If we didn't have those, we just didn't open an office. So the people that opened all our offices were internally grow, every single one of them. And then I committed to being in that office for the first three months every day. And then after that, I would commit to being in that office once a month, every month. So I would go Phoenix, Vegas, and I'd jump around and I would have with all their new employees. I'd have a coffee with Dagger, and I'd sit him down. I take them away from the office and I sit down and I tell them our story. So they knew our story. They knew what we value, how we attracted clients, why our clients stayed forever, and. And what made us what we are. And I taught that to every single employee, all 500. And I kept it up. I would show up to their Christmas parties, I'd show up to their events. I would show up. I would meet their best clients. I'm the face of the company, but I would meet their clients. They were their clients. They were my clients. They were theirs. So they'd love introducing me, and we'd. Then we'd go have a nice dinner or whatever we do. But I was committed to that process of keeping things consistent, keeping everybody believing the same way, headed the same direction.
- [08:54]
Host
So you started when, I think you said you were 27 and not trying to make this about me. I started my business when I was 23, had a lot of success right away, and even joined a country club at the age of, I think, 27. But still in the back of my mind, there were times where I would look around and go, I hope I don't get found out.
- [09:16]
Tim Barone
Yeah.
- [09:18]
Host
Did you ever experience that because you're.
- [09:20]
Tim Barone
Dealing with big companies? I was hiring, again, the people that work for me. Very highly educated, smart, good people. That's. There was a time when I had 20% of our staff making more than me because I had to keep them. And the company only produced so much, and you only had so much income. And I was okay with that. It never bothered me because for me, it never was about. It was about building something for a group of people that ultimately it would pay off in some form. But I. I would. I. I never felt like I was being found out. What I always knew was I knew the business really well, but I wasn't a great engineer. But I had really good engineers, and I never tried to hide that fact that I may not have the answer for you. I know how to get the answer. And it's this guy over here. And I always felt like I could always trusted my people, and they were smart. They were super smart people, especially my partner. He was a really good engineer. But you don't always want them out there because they're really good engineers. Then maybe they're not good enough clients until you find a niche for them. And we sold landscape architecture, land survey, master planning, land use planning. We did all kinds of services. We just didn't do one single thing. So you have different aspects of that world.
- [10:34]
Host
So just to clarify, again for our audience, part of your initial sales process was not saying, I'm not a good engineer.
- [10:41]
Tim Barone
No, it wasn't. I know what you're trying to do. I know what your end goal is. If it's a home builder, I know he's trying to build a home, get the lots ready to build a home. If it's a Home Depot or Costco or Target, I know that they're trying to get their door open. Costco, their number one goal is get that door open on that date. And that was our goal, was to get that door open on that date. And all these big box guys, they might have been out of Costco's, out of Seattle, they were out of Kirkland, Washington, but they had spaces in all my offices. They had desks, they had offices in my offices. So when they would find land, we'd go find the land for them. We bring in brokers. We find five spots that were good for them. We'd analyze the crap out of all of them, and then they pick a site. Then we take it through the whole process. We take through the land use review process, the design process, and then the building process. And they had a date they did not want to miss, and that date, because they sold a million dollars a day in revenue. So they got to get that door open. They don't care how much they pay along the way, because this million dollars, that million dollars is almost irrelevant. They want it open that day. So that's what Costco's goal was. Target wasn't so much. They cared about every penny. And if they had to push the date, then that was okay. So we had to understand that client.
- [11:55]
Host
Talk about having a captive customer. Oh, yeah, offices in your building.
- [11:59]
Tim Barone
Yeah, tough. Yeah. We had Lowe's and Home Depot in our offices. We would analyze the same sites with two separate groups of people, twice. And we just had a commitment to both of them that. That we wouldn't talk. And if they're happened to be looking at the same site, we wouldn't tell the other guys, hey, they're looking at this site. And we would get paid twice to look at the same size. First come, first serve.
- [12:23]
Host
Tim.
- [12:23]
Louis Basile
It's interesting. I'd said before that I came from a unique position because I was mostly the cfo. And how we grew our company was creating the best balance sheet you possibly can go. Because if your balance sheet doesn't allow you to grow, then you're going to fail because you don't have the amount of capital. And so then once you've got the right balance sheet in place, you have to teach your employees is if we're not taking enough risk, prudent risk, we're not taking enough risk. Because if you are successful in everything you do to try to grow your business, you're not going to grow it as fast as you can it. And you learn a lot from your mistakes. But if you're not, if you're like safe on every decision you make, your company's not going to grow. It's not going to be as successful as it could be. And the third thing that I learned, probably not soon enough in my business career, but very late, that really catapulted our business. Our growth was a lot faster when I learned this, it was small, guys. We all started off as small. As an entrepreneur, guess what? You could probably do everything in your business better than everybody else in your business. And everyone would always come to me for the answer. And I hired a coach. And the coach said, you're probably the best at doing all those jobs. But if you're doing all those jobs, you can't do it. Only you can do, which is grow your business, create the culture, take care of the customer. And when I learned that and I was allowed to promote people, which kept them in the business and limited turnover and that, and then let them make some mistakes that would help them grow, that they really enjoyed being in the business, but it would help catapult the growth because I was out there creating the bigger vision that would help us grow our business.
- [14:19]
Host
Yeah, I think that's one thing that every entrepreneur has had to struggle with and that is letting go and not trying to do it all yourself.
- [14:26]
Tim Barone
I went to one of the few.
- [14:28]
Host
Management training courses because I was always a good salesperson, but not a good manager. That's why I didn't have a lot of employees. But the managerial training course, I'll never forget, the guy's theme was monkeys on people's back. And if somebody has a monkey on their back and they come to you and they start telling you about the monkey and you agree to do anything about the monkey, it now has become your monkey.
- [14:53]
Louis Basile
And they don't grow. They don't. If you solve all their problems, they're going to, they're going to stay whatever core competencies they came to your company with, that's all they have. And your company is not going to be successful. You let them make a few mistakes, all of a sudden they're going to willing to take that risk. They're going to make their own decisions and they're going to get be better employees and you're going to have time to do what only you can do in your organization.
- [15:15]
Host
That's a huge shift in thinking that a lot of people don't make.
- [15:19]
Tim Murphy
Louie, there's a Few things that I've learned along the way. So first and foremost is you have to, as Tim did, you have to build one pool, and you gotta have. It's gotta look great, and it's gotta hold the water, and the tile's gotta stay on the side. If you can't do that, then you can't build the second pool, because nobody's gonna give you that opportunity. You have to. You have some success early on, and that starts building your confidence that you can do more than just either a pool or a group of pools or one office or one restaurant or one van, retrofit it. And from there, basically, I think, look, our job as leaders or as entrepreneurs is to embrace change. And that's not so easy sometimes, when oftentimes. Len I would think about if things were going really well, and I wasn't thinking about what needed to be necessarily fixed, but changed or what was the future looking then. I knew I was falling behind. And once you start falling behind, it's really quickly. You can go down the hill that you just climbed. It's really hard to climb back up the hill. I also find, you know, quite frankly, for me, fear of failure is a huge motivator. And I never wanted to fail. I didn't want to fail for my family. I didn't want to fail for myself. I didn't want to fail for the breadheads that all worked at the Wildflower that were depending on my strategic or leadership to ensure that they got paid every week. And that's a huge responsibility that I took very seriously. Two other points.
- [17:00]
Host
Let me stop there. So that changed quite a bit from one restaurant to 16, because the chance of failing or failure would be 16 times larger, 100%.
- [17:10]
Tim Murphy
There are 700 people depending on the Wildflower to do a do their job or my job to ensure that they got paid on a regular basis. And that's a lot of responsibility. I also think that as a leader, you got to admit your mistakes. It's really hard to say you made a mistake, especially for overachievers, but the reality is that we all make mistakes. I've been chasing perfection for 46 years, and I would love to find a company that does everything perfect because I would love to go work there. I would be your best employee if I knew someplace where nobody ever made a mistake and everything was perfect. And then the last thing is, for me personally, it took me a long time. As I said, I got out of my own way to hire people that were smarter than me. And I think that's critical when you're building a company is to surround yourself with the best and the brightest people. Dak talked about Dags talked about how he knew he was hiring these really smart people, and he knew what his strengths were, and he leveraged his strengths to make sure that he had the right people in place. Well, sometimes there's tons of missed opportunities when you don't hire a person that you should have hired, because maybe, I don't know, you're afraid that they're smarter than you are or something. And for me, it took me a while to figure that out. And then my last point would be, you have to exude confidence. You can't mislead your employees, but they expect you to exude confidence and to inspire them to do their best. And if you're not doing that on a regular basis, I think the company culture and the company misses huge opportunities.
- [18:54]
Tim Barone
Great points.
- [18:55]
Host
Sometimes, even when you don't feel like it 100%. All right, final question here, and probably the most important one. And our audience knows that I'm big on mindset and more so even our identity. So I'm going to ask all of you here, what do you feel it is that is part of your identity, which is really who you are, which includes your habits, your actions, your discipline, both professionally and personally. That's a major part of your success and that other people could benefit from.
- [19:30]
Darren Welborn
I think one of my benefits that one of the things I is that I had a lot of confidence in what I did. I would love to go. I loved going out and doing all the precinct meetings and as many as I could. But I would go out when the pool was laid out. Homeowners in the backyard, homeowner, the project managers there and the salesperson were there, were required to be. Their salesperson was required to be there, Project managers there and then the homeowners there. And basically what happens at that point? The salesperson hands the job over to the project manager, and they go through the entire job. I would pull up and I would sit back and listen to this whole thing happen, and I just would take it over. And so I would take the meeting over, basically, and I loved it. So I would sit there and go through the whole job and go explain to them, hey, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do this. And Your pool is 3 foot, 4 foot, 5 foot deep. And I would always give the homeowner something at that meeting. Just I don't care if it was the smallest thing. Hey, how about we make your pool foot wider, foot bigger, this or that. It didn't really cost us nothing really to do stuff like that. But they felt we, we were in the driver's seat at that point. And so I just, I just felt like I had confidence, I had confidence. I had an open door policy in my office. My door was always open. I was always approachable. I would pull up to job sites and I would grab the wheelbarrow from the laborer that's bringing concrete from the ready mix truck to the backyard. And I wheel a couple loads of concrete myself with dress shoes on or whatever I was wearing at the time just to show the project manager and the homeowner that we were engaged. And it just was something that I was always inspired about the culture. And I just felt like I was really engaged. Darren mentioned something earlier. For me, it was never about the money, about income, profitability. I knew it would all fall someday. And the other thing is I. Not many people know this, but in business I was always worried about borrowing money and having the bank behind me and all this. So I never borrowed a dime. When I built my company until I sold, I had zero debt. The only debt we had at presidential pools was the copy machines because we had to lease those because they break all the time. But we never. Every truck we bought, every shot, cree rig, whatever, we just, we, we bought it as the company grew. And it's just, it was a cool thing. So I never had the fear of going in debt and having to deal with a bank down the road anyways. I just. Simple terms, I took. We took care of the customer, we took care of the employee. And I showed it at them the way I. My work ethic was. And that's what I have to offer.
- [22:00]
Host
So really, to summarize that and boil it down, it got down to hard work and personal responsibility too.
- [22:08]
Louis Basile
You know, I said it before Art, I believe that I have a passion for my employees, my passion for my customers. Passion of doing the right thing and a passion to succeed. And when you have that, you're going to go, you're going to my son. One day we were driving to a baseball game in Diamondback game and the grandma army said, daddy, what? He says, you've been very successful. What did you. What is the one thing you did? And I said, you know what? There's always someone smarter. There's always someone who has more money. There's always someone who has more connections. No one can outwork you if you don't let them. And I'd say I had a tremendous, my dad gave me a tremendous work ethic that it's like I refuse to fail. It's like if whatever it took to succeed. And I think in hiring people who have that similar passion, I think was the thing that made our company really successful.
- [23:05]
Host
Great. Again, similar theme, work ethic. And I love that. Refusing to fail, doing whatever it takes.
- [23:13]
Louis Basile
And refusing to fail doesn't mean that you don't take risk on some project that may not work out. It's if, like I said before, if everything that you do and every new adventure that you do is successful, you're not taking enough risk in your business.
- [23:28]
Host
And that's like what we tell salespeople all the time. There's no such thing as rejection or failure on a sales call because that's just a made up story. It's just an experience, something that happened because you can always learn something from everything. And that's true with taking risks and learning from it.
- [23:46]
Tim Barone
All right, Dave, I obviously, I've always had confidence and never worried about what was next. Just never have worried about that. It was never about the money for me. But like I said, you gotta have money to keep going and grow. But I think that although I said I don't put the customer first, the customer has to be there. The customer has to be happy. And in my world, my engineering world, which is very stoic and very pocket protector world, we were a cool company. We were, we had fun. We had fun with our clients. Our clients loved us. We always, they enjoyed working with us. They enjoyed sitting down to meetings because we, we, we could talk about what's going on in life. And I tried to instill that in everyone. Let's enjoy what we're doing every day. Let's have fun. And building things is fun because you get to drive down the road and say, I did that. I did that. He gets to do this. Tim gets to do the same thing. That's such a cool thing when you can go down the road and say, that was my project and all my people. I said, those are your projects. Take ownership in that. And there are clients, projects too, for sure. But typically our clients, our client is not the stockholders of Costco. Our clients is the guy that works for Costco. That is our client who became more part of our family than the Costco family. And they just, we just brought them all in and we had a blast. We really had fun. But I also created within my firm what I call the Value Appreciation Plan, where I gave all my employees a piece of the action. And if they're creating value, here's a formula, how you get a piece. And they knew what it was. And if their little world, their little fiefdom wasn't making any money, they didn't get a bonus. If it did, they got a bonus. No one ever complained because they were in control of their destiny. And they knew when they were struggling with that, maybe they were having issues, other team members would go in and help them. And we were all about cross, cross helping. And I think that was a big part of our growth. We didn't lose people ever. We just didn't lose people. But when people would leave because they had an entrepreneurial spirit that we would teach, we were happy for. We would give them smaller clients that we couldn't take anymore. And we would. We probably started 32 companies and we were happy about it. Most people are going, that sucker is going to take our employees. He's going to take our business. We didn't worry about that. We just said, let's just keep building what we're building and let's help John down the road because we can't take this three lot subdivision on, but let's give it to him. He'll treat him better. He can give him more daily service.
- [26:15]
Louis Basile
You know what command you to. Yeah, John was.
- [26:19]
Tim Barone
He was happy. Everyone's happy that way. I never felt bad when people would leave like most people do. And I the motivation I got to really grow a business. I always just wanted to be in business, but to grow business. Right when my partner and I were decided, we're going to open our own firm, we went to our mentor who had a big engineering firm in Portland, Oregon. We said, can we take you to lunch? Took him to lunch. We're 26 years old. And we said, hey, we're going to start this business. What kind of pointers can you give us? And he said, when you fail in a year, come to work for me and I'll give you a job and I'll pay you because you guys are pretty good. And we walked away from that. We're going use sob we're going to kick your ass. And I said, now we need to get big. And we ended up being bigger than him and taking all of his employees. We took half of his project managers, came to work for us. In fact, every office I have, the VP of that office started with him. They all came over to me and they ended up being my leaders and they took off and opened companies. And it was because all he had to say was, here's some questions to help you guys out. And so that told me when people came to me for that same advice, to be a competitor, I gave him advice, real advice, and I helped him. I said, here's some struggles you're gonna have. Here's where you should do. Here's where you should focus. So I always felt like I wasn't in it just so Darren Wellborn could be this superstar engineering firm. It just happened to happen because everyone else around me wanted to grow too. And once I allowed them part of the action, man, they grew the firm way faster than I could ever grow.
- [27:48]
Host
So the guy that insulted you and then motivated you remind me of the scene from Pretty Woman, Remember where. Yeah, the sales lady. Big mistake. Big, huge mistake.
- [28:00]
Tim Murphy
For me, I think it boils down to three things. One is curiosity. Being curious is a. It's a lifelong journey. I think you learn so much from being curious about why things work or why is it. No, I think it's. I know it's a gift that we taught our three children, and I know that they appreciate that fact. So being curious is incredibly, in my humble opinion, important to successful people because they're not willing to look at the surface level. They look well below the surface and find lots and lots of gems below the surface and different ways to have a competitive advantage in a business. Let's say second piece, I think is authenticity. I think you have to be authentic. Particular. Doesn't matter whether it's your front facing guests or your employees. And again, the wildflower case, breadheads. Most people know when you're not generally. Or when you generally don't care for them. And they generally know when you care for them. And the restaurant industry has got a notorious reputation. Right. We're the second largest private sector employer in the United States behind healthcare. And we have a reputation for not treating our employees, supposedly particularly at a regulatory level. But the reality is that we're some of the most generous people in the world. Right? And true, the restaurant industry is a starter job, Right. It's not generally meant to be ahead of household income unless you want to advance into management. Okay. And so the reality is that people know when you care. And I think it's critical for leaders to show their authentic self and be vulnerable and to let people know that you care about them. And then the last thing I think is an unwavering commitment to do whatever it takes to be successful. And that can be described as perseverance. It could be work ethic, it could be discipline. It can be all of those things, the reality is that for most people that have had successful careers in building something, they were unwilling to fail, basically. And so ultimately, you can turn that around to doing whatever it takes to make sure you get the job done. Those are my points.
- [30:20]
Host
Great tips.
- [30:20]
Tim Barone
All right, everybody.
- [30:21]
Host
Wow. What a masterclass. This could be an MBA on sales and business. Thanks to all of our guests here today. And we have a regular feature, so you know what time it is. That's right. It's time for the quote of the day. And a couple of our guests have some of their own favorite quotes. Tim, you mentioned you have one.
- [30:52]
Louis Basile
Yeah. If you don't take care of the customer, someone else will. And I don't know who said that, but truer words were never spoken.
- [30:59]
Host
Always true. Because it happens all the time. And you may not even know about it.
- [31:03]
Louis Basile
You probably won't.
- [31:04]
Host
They'll just.
- [31:04]
Louis Basile
They'll just go away.
- [31:05]
Host
Dad, you had one.
- [31:06]
Louis Basile
Yeah, I. Mine was a little.
- [31:07]
Tim Barone
My quote that I used, which was outside of the engineering field, but because I was trying to build a business that didn't look like an engineering firm. It was from Ralph Lauren. And Ralph Lauren said many times, I don't design clothes. I design dreams. And that was his quote, because he didn't really think of himself as a clothing designer. He thought himself as someone who designed things from outside your box. And so I always told people that because we weren't designing sewer pipes and grading plans, we were designing places that people lived and worked and played, and so designing their future that we could all be a part of. And so I use that quote a lot. And. And I think it's true to this day.
- [31:49]
Host
Yeah, very true. And think it applies to everybody's business here. You guys all said that in different ways because you're not selling food, you're selling an experience. You're selling a thing. What I always tell people is you're not selling a. Nobody sells a product or service. Everybody sells a result. That's all people want.
- [32:06]
Tim Murphy
All right, again, I got a quote on here.
- [32:09]
Host
Sure.
- [32:09]
Tim Murphy
All right, so one of the most successful retailers. There's only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in the company, from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else. Said by Sam Walt. That's true. Basically, if you don't deliver a product that people want to buy or want to come back and use or don't refer a friend, then you simply don't have a business. And so ultimately, that's where leadership change happens. When performance is down and when performance is up. That's where leadership is in place and people are happy and your guests or customers are incredibly satisfied.
- [32:48]
Host
So true. And as we experience today, everything is sales, even though we may not always call it that. So if you enjoyed today's episode, which again, was a little bit different than what we normally present, as always, please do share it with others. Post it on LinkedIn, share it on your socials, send it in an email. So go to theartofsales.com theartofsales.com THE LINK for this episode will be there. And thank you so much for investing your valuable sales time with us today. Until next time, go out and make it your best sales day ever. I'm Art Sobchak.