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- [00:00]
Camille
Lululemon, can you get it together? Because we don't like your brand anymore. TikTok shop makes more revenue than Sephora and Ulta combined. So last year, Sephora and ulta combined to $21 billion. TikTok shop did 66 billion. Headline this week is that Meta launched Instagram for TV and it's an app that allows you to download on your smart tv.
- [00:22]
Bobby
I can get more entertainment with an algorithm that knows what I like on reels that are just taking the best of people's content and feeding it to me.
- [00:30]
Camille
YouTube got the rights to the Oscars for 2029.
- [00:35]
Bobby
That deal. I wonder if that was a package deal where they also secured the rights to Motorola pagers. Because my idea about the Oscars is that they're entirely not watching. Not worth watching.
- [00:45]
Camille
Melania Trump is releasing Melania the movie, which is a documentary. And in connection with Amazon MGM Studios.
- [00:55]
Bobby
We need to learn from people that we disagree with. And Trump is an absolute master.
- [01:00]
Camille
I agree with that.
- [01:01]
Bobby
At the media.
- [01:01]
Camille
Alex Earle had partnered with Poppy and had gotten equity and invested in the company.
- [01:08]
Bobby
Partnering with the right influencer as you're getting ready can really make you way more money for giving away a little bit of the company. And not an influencer, but somebody who knows how to message you in a digital world.
- [01:18]
Camille
Salomon it hires an mm6 designer.
- [01:21]
Bobby
I think people are moving towards, if they're gonna spend money on luxury, they want it to work. They actually want a walking tool that is the best walking tool.
- [01:29]
Camille
Netflix collabs with Barstool Sports by getting.
- [01:32]
Bobby
The podcaster who has the most influence on sports viewers. They're now gonna bring more sports viewers to their sports programming. And that, my friends, is the end of all of the networks.
- [01:43]
Camille
What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Welcome back, everybody. Last episode before Christmas.
- [01:58]
Bobby
Yes, I don't think last of 2026, 2025.
- [02:02]
Camille
We got one more before we can.
- [02:04]
Bobby
Say that'll be our New Year's prediction. Till next year be our New Year's prediction. Hey, look, if you're not following or sharing the podcast, please, please do so before you get into this amazing content we're gonna be sharing with you today.
- [02:15]
Camille
Yeah, we got a lot of stuff to cover as per usual, but I think we should kick it. Kick it off with talking about the Lululemon feedback. I find it fascinating that every time that we do a hit piece on lululemon it is 90% comments of holy shit, this is exactly how I'm feeling. Like, this is so true. I couldn't agree more. Like, it's just, it's like an echo chamber of the whole world being like, Lululemon, can you. We don't like your brand anymore.
- [02:45]
Bobby
That usually reflects one of two things to me. One, either I'm disappointed in ourselves because we're talking about something that's too obvious. You know what I mean? And that if it's. But I think, I think it's more along the line of it reflects some social desirability bias and that we're saying something out loud that people aren't talking about. And then when they see somebody else has said it, they're like, yeah, I've been thinking that. I've been saying it because to have such universal acknowledgment of the points we brought up, except for a couple haters on there, you know, just shows that we're really speaking something that's, that's obvious to the consumer market. It seems like a real big opportunity for some other businesses.
- [03:18]
Camille
I mean like, based on the stats of how well that post has done at present, it's like already over, I think 200,000 views. So to have like two people be like, don't love this. I mean, that's not like, that just shows you like, overwhelmingly people agree with the statement. But I also think an interesting piece that came through on that is that the Lululemon CEO in is Ex Sephora, which is like they're playing the exact same playbook of let's sell to the children so that we can be on every Christmas list. But like, where does that go?
- [03:50]
Bobby
You know, I did a substack on it a little while ago and it's a disturbing trend in businesses. And see if you see it in your big businesses where these public companies think the job is to find a celebrity CEO. So it's somebody who worked at another big company, right? And I kind of compared it to Walmart and Home Depot who usually promote from within. Somebody who's rise up the ranks knows everything, right? But when you see these big companies with their, with their kind of risk averse boards, they're just hiring past CEOs who are essentially travelers to businesses that, that have marketed themselves well and call themselves celebrities, but they actually end up just ruining the company a bit more and then moving on somewhere else. So you, you know, it seems like Lululemon, they, they hired somebody from Starbucks before, then they hired somebody from Sephora. And every time it's getting worse and worse. Like, I think the next one's gonna be Kodak's ex CEO or something.
- [04:43]
Camille
No, absolutely not. They're not gonna. But. But I. But I think that that's why overwhelmingly people agreed with us because there is obvious similarities between Starbucks and Sephora and the pattern that Lululemon is going. The reason why I think this is the most interesting is activewear. It's kind of a reoccurring theme. We're gonna talk about it later in Solomon. But it's become such a big part of our life. Like, when you look at your closet, you have these different categories of clothing, right? And this idea of like, activewear, loungewear, hybrid materials for people who prioritize health and wellness is becoming an increasingly growing percentage of the population. And more and more Gen Zs and younger are perpetually living in, like, sweatpants. So the market cap for doing loungewear correctly is huge. And it blows my mind that Lululemon and aloe yoga. I mean, aloe's doing a better job of Lulu, but, like, can't seem to figure it out. And that's why I think Skims has really this huge opportunity to lean into creating products that people want.
- [05:59]
Bobby
No, if I was war gaming with them, like with the leadership staff and I was identifying opportunities, you know, and risk assessments going after that Lululemon market share would be a high value target. That's achievable. Yeah, like, and, and all of. But like, when you move your product focus to a younger generation, they can be very fast adopters, but they generally don't promote innovation in product lines. Like, they respond to kind of. They're more easily.
- [06:25]
Camille
They're at the bottom of the, like, at the bottom of the. By the time it gets to the kids and the kids are asking for it, it's no longer the people who are driving culture, it's the bottom receiving end.
- [06:35]
Bobby
And they're responding to the trends, the whole things. But, like, really, your products have to be innovated. You always have to be making better products. And I just haven't seen anything, you know, since the silver in the shirts, which was great. Product in Lulu, which made them smell a little less like, that was good. I still have one of those. But when you're catering to that audience, it's not demanding innovation.
- [06:53]
Camille
You're bringing up an integral, massive point that Lululemon has stopped innovating. I think the space that skims can take is more simple than that in that I don't find basics are being done well anymore. And when I had walked by the aloe store the other day, and the window was just this, like, fire, bright red, like, almost the color of the book that's behind you and like, holiday, like, greens. And in there was like, grays. And when I walk by the store, I'm like, who's buying that? Like, it looks like it looks cute, but, like, who's buying that? And when you think about when I go into Lululemon, to me, it's the same thing. I don't find they're not creating color waves for the majority of the market. That's looking for neutrals.
- [07:41]
Bobby
It's more than that. It's what is the signal when you see that, the signal is like, look, this is a fun color. It's not the old days. When I walked by Lululemon, you saw people actually wearing the equipment, doing the stuff, like, wearing the clothing, doing things. Right. It was showcasing this product is superior in its performance. Right. But when you're just kind of getting people to do flashy new colors and all that stuff, you're not emphasizing that your product is a superior product. What I would have thought when I was thinking about Lululemon, I was looking at some of the comments. Somebody suggested she was a nurse. She was like, wouldn't it have been amazing if LUL would have taken their approach to Athleisure, taken the product innovation and made it scrubs and turn it into, like, yeah, workwear scrubs.
- [08:24]
Camille
But that's Skims. Like, Skims did that with maternity wear. Like, that's why, to me, this. The Nike Skims really needs to turn it around. I think that they've incorporated their own corporate structure for Nike Skims. So it wasn't a collab. I think it's an ongoing opportunity. But to come out in these, like, dark colors that don't reflect the Skims brand. Like, when you look at the Skims North Face collaboration, that was a breakout success because it was a neutral color wave and there's so many people. And why Skims has been so successful is not only did they find a white space, but they also created color waves that you constantly want to gravitate towards. Like, you want to wear their products. And when I look at Lululemon and I look at aloe and even Viori, like, Viori isn't for me. And there's nothing wrong with Vuori, but I just. I don't think about it. It doesn't connect with me. It doesn't seem cool enough. Like, it doesn't have that cool factor.
- [09:16]
Bobby
It tried. It tried, it tried. And it kind of appealed to a few people.
- [09:20]
Camille
No, it appeals to a lot of people. It's doing. It's doing well. It's just. It, to me, isn't. It's not where I feel like is what's missing in the market. And what's missing in the market is actually not providing these color waves that you can wear it three times and you get sick of. It's these staple pieces that are within neutral waves that make sense of what people want to wear around the house while they're working from home, while they're at the airport, while they're going to Pilates. Like, when you go to Pilates class, there isn't, like, enough bunnies.
- [09:48]
Bobby
There's no places you wear skims.
- [09:49]
Camille
This is like, literally, like. It's just Camille only dresses up for the podcast.
- [09:54]
Bobby
Send me. Send me some skims pajamas. Because I love that set of pajamas. Like, it's amazing.
- [09:59]
Camille
I know skims pajamas are right. But, I mean, I just. When I look at what Lululemon has failed in the comments, the response from. So there's such a desire for where Lululemon was, which was like. And that was what made the brand the best is when I look back on. When I think about the brand, because I was always such a loyal customer. Like, I had so much from Lululemon. The pieces I held onto were a heather gray cashmere, like, polytechnical, like, sweater knit. I also got it in oatmeal. I hold onto these, like, gray sweaters. Like, they're always the neutral pieces you keep for time. The stuff you give away after a year or two are like the purple pieces. And you go to Pilates class and everyone's not wearing purple. They're wearing black, white, nude.
- [10:39]
Bobby
For me, the best piece they had that made me love Lululemon were those black track pants slash joggers that were a little thicker for some reason. They just look like they were tapered. Yeah. And they made track pants into a style, you know, when everything else was just. It was just an Adidas. You got it with a soccer tracksuit. Right.
- [10:57]
Camille
Like, I feel nice.
- [10:58]
Bobby
I feel like they made. Like, that was the first time you would see guys. I would see guys wearing a tracksuit outside, like, as. As. And they should have doubled down on the. On the single best T shirt for working out. That doesn't smell right. That silver lining. That's what they should have done. But anyhow, it's a disaster. But thank you for your comments. We'll See who. Who takes the space that Lululemon leaves.
- [11:20]
Camille
Yeah, I'm dying to see who they appoint, like, what direction they're gonna go.
- [11:23]
Bobby
But Skims do it.
- [11:24]
Camille
Skims needs to own it. Like, why Nike Skims?
- [11:27]
Bobby
Why?
- [11:27]
Camille
Like, it was like I was like ready to go. Like, if they had launched like, like tank tops with a built in bra in their like signature nine shades of nudes, like, holy shit, the box would have been so big. That showed up at my front door. Like, that's what I want.
- [11:42]
Bobby
They could actually capture that whole market, you know, I mean like you wouldn't.
- [11:45]
Camille
Wear like a super light pink, like a pink lighter than this. Like I just. Ah. Somebody do it. Okay, so let's now move into TikTok shop. I mean, TikTok shop, this is not new, but the stat just came out that TikTok shop makes more revenue than Sephora and Ulta combined. So last year Sephora and ulta combined to $21 billion. TikTok shop did 66 billion on pace to end the year at $70 billion.
- [12:13]
Bobby
Just let's contextualize that. Did TikTok shop in beauty do more than.
- [12:18]
Camille
No, no, no. TikTok Shop in.
- [12:19]
Bobby
It's like saying Walmart did more than.
- [12:21]
Camille
Yeah, no, but the reason why I'm.
- [12:23]
Bobby
Comparing those is what percentage of the TikTok shop was in what areas. That's what's interesting to me.
- [12:27]
Camille
Beauty. Beauty is the predominant. Because it's so easy, right? It's that lipstick effect that like when you're scrolling at night and somebody posts something. In beauty or wellness, it's so much because you're like, you're seeing the transformation. So that's what makes it so powerful. So you're right, it's not a one to one comparison. But the reason why I'm bringing that up is what's so fascinating in the beauty space is that beauty founders are trying to get product to go viral on TikTok so that they can increase their sales in Sephora. Because if not for driving demand somewhere else, they're just competing in a very saturated shopping space.
- [13:01]
Bobby
Which is what I would tell them is make good TikTok so that you can sell on TikTok and get way better percentage.
- [13:08]
Camille
Well, you get the whole margin opposed to having to split it to like. Well with the Sephora agreement, right. So what's so funny and crazy is that people are trying to generate stuff like you could collapse that entire funnel on TikTok specifically, which is why I'm going to talk about Lemmy as Being a brand that's really actually crushing it on TikTok shop because it has such a massive opportunity for brands.
- [13:32]
Bobby
Let's talk about Lemmy.
- [13:33]
Camille
So let me.
- [13:35]
Bobby
This is a lead singer of Motorhead. That's.
- [13:37]
Camille
That's the name.
- [13:38]
Bobby
That's what I know Lemmy from. So it's hilarious that they chose it.
- [13:41]
Camille
It's another Kardashian tap. So Lemmy is owned by Kourtney Kardashian, which I never found it to be, like, particularly impressive is the wrong word because the branding always looked good. But I'm just, like, skeptical of, like, you know, like the gummy candies that, like, make your hair grow and, you know, make you lose weight and, like, they're just. There's an abundance of that. So it's not really for me. But what I didn't realize is how much she is crushing on TikTok shop. So she's apparently generated over 60 million in revenue, and she's the top grossing Wellness brand on TikTok. She's been using the swarm strategy, which a few brands have been using and have been known to be quite successful. And there's eight brands that are doing over a million a month on TikTok shop, and she is one of them. Basically, the strategy is they use the swarm strategy. So they have. She has 13,000 affiliates that she connects with the brand, AI adds them. So it's like an AI program that selects and partners the affiliate. And what makes TikTok shop so fascinating is it it's the only affiliate network that you can create the parameters that the person doesn't have to pay for the product based on sales. So for Instagram, you have to ship the product and basically let go of product and gift it and hope it makes money. On TikTok, you can set the parameters that they have to sell seven before they get that product for free, or however many that make sense for you, so that it incentivizes brands to have to gift a ton of product. But from the 13,000 affiliates that she has, they've created over 55,000 pieces of content. So they're creating almost five pieces of content each, which is generating for her way more sales without having to sell to send them way more free product.
- [15:30]
Bobby
It almost hurts how much more effective that is than what traditional marketing agencies are telling people to do. Like, this is like guerrilla. It's not even guerrilla warfare. It's out there now, but it's such a smart way to do things. Like, I know we're doing this with a couple of the brands we're working with and like if you have people who like your product or like your founder, like you can crush it with this strategy.
- [15:52]
Camille
And that's what she's doing so intelligently is like she shows up, she creates this content. Girls feel like they're cool posting about this mummy brand. The branding is super dialed into this like female audience and they're doing all of the selling for her and they're making money along the way. Plus they have that association with the brand, they're getting that bump so, so they feel more inclined to create more content which is in turn making her so much money. But what's so fascinating about her TikTok strategy, and this is what many businesses don't know, you can actually increase your average order value through doing all of this because they have subscription capabilities. So people who buy off of an affiliate can generate a 12 month subscription with a user. The only difference is that how successful the like meta sales are is through a landing page where you have the subscription directly through the brand. It's like a Shopify add on. TikTok shop has the subscription feature built in. So it's not. That's what makes the TikTok shop so fascinating is the entire funnel is collapsed into one point of purchase.
- [16:58]
Bobby
It's funny when I talk to executives how simple things can make a huge difference to your business. So meta is huge and they're doing some things well here. But that, that decision action cycle we talk about in terms of seeing what your competition is doing, Instagram should be, should be at the exact same page because it makes so much sense to make it that much easier for people to use the affiliate program. And the fact that they can't, they can't change fast enough shows that their leadership team is a bit slow.
- [17:25]
Camille
I think that's actually the biggest, the biggest advantage that TikTok has over Instagram is this shopability. And TikTok did such a great job as well as with the live feature. That's what made it an entire ecosystem because you can. So when, when Kim did Kim's miss and it was this huge like TV production in live time you can talk about a sale or a bundle as people are entertained and watching you and in one click purchase the product. So they have all of the features in one place to completely collapse the sales funnel. And that makes it so brilliant. But what also is really working on TikTok Shop is this idea of special pricing or bundle pricing. So it's really where TikTok is becoming like this QVC where you can only get this deal in one place.
- [18:12]
Bobby
That's why people will tune in.
- [18:14]
Camille
Yes.
- [18:14]
Bobby
Otherwise, you know what I mean? You need to make them feel like I gotta tune in because this is my one time to get it.
- [18:18]
Camille
Yeah. Like there's scarcity to this. So the example with Shark Beauty, which is one of the top eight that are making insane, insane money in TikTok affiliates, they're not cheap products, they're like 200, $300 products. But because the product is priced, priced higher, people are more inclined to create better content because their, their revenue that they're making, their commission is higher because the product is higher. And what Shark did, that's brilliant is let's say something is for sale somewhere every, for 229, everywhere. Walmart, Costco, Amazon, it's all standardized the price. But on TikTok shop they say that it's actually $300 with $100 off. So it's $200. And really what they're saving is $29. But they're making it seem like you're saving $100. So even though you're still saving money based on those other platforms, you still have a higher incentive to buy it off of TikTok shop because it's still a deal. But they make it seem like it's a better deal.
- [19:19]
Bobby
No. And the company's margins are way better. Like it just, it's a no brainer. Like anybody in the beauty industry who's in Sephora Wellness, like I know some of Sephora's contracts were trying to stop that.
- [19:31]
Camille
Yeah. They're trying to punish it.
- [19:32]
Bobby
Right. But like before you sign for Sephora, you should really look at if that's the right goal for you because you could probably make more money in TikTok.
- [19:40]
Camille
Well, that's what's really kind of this larger complicated conversation is Sephora is kind of this like halo. Right. Like it makes your brand seem more legitimate because it's a Sephora based beauty brand. But what was interesting about the video we did last week on Lululemon and me saying like, I don't go to Sephora anymore. There was so many people that related to that. Like it's just become, it's overwhelming that it's like all children and they're like ransacking the, like the shelves and it's just chaos and it's just like, no thanks. But my point is what's actually coming through in the industry is people are determining what are the best products based off of affiliate revenue. So like the Shop my program. Right. Like how many people bought what products through the Shop My affiliate links. And those brands are becoming the it brands. So it's interesting. It's such a complicated ecosystem for these beauty brands that they're probably going to start cutting out these legacy players. Because if everything is, if you like, think about all the pieces, you're giving away a piece of the pie.
- [20:38]
Bobby
Like, from a leadership perspective, one of the keys to your success is your observation abilities. And because most leaders are like hidden back in the boardroom and their fancy chairs, surrounded by yes men and women, they're not getting information. And the delay can be critical to your business. So if you guys own a business, like, you really need to pay attention to what's going on by asking questions that other people aren't asking, by talking to people who don't agree with you. Because that's fourth thing is pretty obvious if you look at it. But their, their board isn't seeing, seeing where that trend is going. It's kind of what we've talked about in the past. Like if you're in, if you want to invest in a city and you see tons, by the time you see six cranes in a city, it's time to sell. But that's when everybody is buying. And so there's always this delayed reaction in terms of how to repurpose your company resources. And so what we're seeing through this content in the comments is that the people are speaking loudly, but the boardrooms aren't hearing it.
- [21:31]
Camille
Well, you bring up a really interesting point, and I think that's a big thing that we need to talk more about on the podcast, is that there's different strokes for different folks and there's a lot of celebrities that are entering into the product space because everybody wants a piece of this craziness where you can no longer just have to wait to get an offer from a brand to show up for a photo shoot. You can actually own the entire ecosystem and there's way more money. And what's complicated about this Sephora dialogue is that we work with a few celebrity brands that are in Sephora fora. It makes sense for their positioning strategy because everything that they need, they need to do when they launch, it has to be done at the highest level. But if you're not a celebrity and you don't have access to a VC firm that can generate 15 million on your series A funding, then you need to be aware of these, these opportunities before they become oversaturated.
- [22:25]
Bobby
Or if you're a celebrity like if you're already in that racket and got your and have your secured space, then you can do it. But if you're a celebrity who's looking at going into it, I wouldn't be competing what they're doing now.
- [22:37]
Camille
The only thing though that's interesting, like that's actually why though Lemmy is working on TikTok Shop because. Because Kourtney Kardashian launched it in all of these big retailers and air on, she created this cool factor to the brand and then by going into TikTok Shop, it makes the TikTok Shop experience seem more elevated. Like these university girls feel like it's a more privileged thing to sell product on behalf of Courtney. Because when you go into all of these high end retailers, there is a Lemmy display case. So by her going into these, it wasn't like she just launched it during dtc.
- [23:12]
Bobby
Isn't it like making that cool through social media? Like, is that a version of what's happening is you're getting a bunch of people to sell your products?
- [23:19]
Camille
It's a version through the lens of every one of these opportunities. There's different pieces of the pie you're giving away and that's why you want to limit like that's where it becomes a really complicated and expensive business. If you have to give a piece to Shop my and a piece to the influencer and a piece to the TikTok Shop and then a piece to Sephora, but you're driving all this discoverability everywhere else and then Sephora takes a huge chunk of the pie. But ultimately the affiliate networks are like multi level marketing. The only thing is, if I create a video for Lemmy and I get an affiliate commission off of my sale and you follow me and you want to start going through Emmy, you don't.
- [23:56]
Bobby
Go through me, but that's.
- [23:57]
Camille
You go through the brand.
- [23:58]
Bobby
But that's what I'm saying.
- [23:59]
Camille
It's better. Yeah, it's better.
- [24:01]
Bobby
But from my thinking, like that also worked in the past, right? Because it'll make the affiliates hustle to get more. But in the end, the people who make money are only the ones at the top. But I was just interested if they're allowing.
- [24:12]
Camille
No, they're not. And they're not. Because ultimately they don't need to. Right? And like that's the thing too is TikTok. Because TikTok Shop is the platform that equally owns all of our handles. They don't have to give more to the top than to the bottom. Anyone that wants and they, they Ultimately want more people to join the affiliate network, because more and more people are going to enter into the space. And that's kind of the problem with their seats.
- [24:37]
Bobby
You should get a referral fee. They should find a way that if I'm affiliate, like, if I'm selling, like the best tent or whatever for camping, and if somebody wants to be in a. If I refer them, like, there should be some way to encourage me to bring, to create a community, just a reward financially, rather than me just sell. But what they're doing makes much better sense for the businesses.
- [25:00]
Camille
It's an interesting angle for them to consider, to get into. But the reason why I don't wear. It's not necessary at the present moment is that because they own the algorithm, the content acts as an organic ad. So all that they care about is that when we go on TikTok and 11 of the videos are educated, I.
- [25:17]
Bobby
Know TikTok doesn't have a need to do it, but if I'm the company, you know, like the swarm mentality, like, it'd be nice if I as the company can say, hey, look, any of you out there who are like bringing people in to become affiliates, we can give you some sort of kiss or something. But anyhow, I'm just saying if you are, as an affiliate, I bust my butt. And I, like, I sell thousands of things and people go, hey, how do I sell this? And if I was to send them to the company, it'd be nice to get a referral.
- [25:39]
Camille
Well, we've known beauty brands in Europe that have done that, that have been successful. I just, I don't. I don't know why it'd be worth Lemmy's time if they're doing six. Like, it's just way more work when they're already killing it. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. But I do think that it's. It's just interesting for where we're going, right? Like, it just is something to get ahead of before it becomes overdone. But I even still think, I think this is the future. Cause we're now going to get into social media is coming for traditional tv. And when I think about how I want to buy and these famous people are getting into products I'm at least more interested in if I'm scrolling, seeing what they're holding and what they're talking about and why, like, it's just more interesting than a straight ad and a straight campaign.
- [26:19]
Bobby
No, the segment we're going into, I call the Three Pronged Death blow to the TV networks.
- [26:24]
Camille
That's an interesting hook.
- [26:26]
Bobby
The three things we're about to talk about are going to be the death sentence to the TV networks as we know them.
- [26:32]
Camille
Well, the first one, definitely. So the headline this week is that Meta launched Instagram for tv and it's an app that allows you to download on your smart TV so that you can basically go through the Instagram feed on your TV screen and it shows you who's watching the content, who's liked the content, and it's just short form video that just keeps scrolling through so that you can consume content. But what's so fascinating about this is it speaks to the reality of this second screen, right where you want to have something that's going on in the background that allows you to just have something going and playing while you're doing something else on your phone. And Instagram is so limited to you having to have the app open that they can have more content playing with more ads that are running to generate more eyeballs in a way that's larger and more effective than just on your cell phone.
- [27:25]
Bobby
So it's interesting because TVs are played less and less. Like, I think the hotel statistics show that the vast majority of TVs in hotel rooms are never turned on, which is interesting. But when you look at how TVs are laid out, it's always landscaped, right? If I was in the TV manufacturing, I would have like an ability to easily rotate it because you want to watch your Instagram reels in a vertical rather than a horizontal. So we always put them horizontal. But you might see a movement to have your TVs vertical. If that's where you're consuming most of your content.
- [27:57]
Camille
I think it's the right move for where I think media and content is going. Like, for example, yesterday when I was at the nail salon, I wanted, there's a new reality TV show and I never watch reality tv. I just like, I don't make time for it. And I wanted to watch some clips of this new show that some friends of mine are on and. But I don't wanna download a Disney subscription. I don't wanna watch 45 minutes of the episode. Like, I just wanna watch the clips, the highlight clips, like two minute kind of clips to get a feel for the show. And that's me. Where I think all of this is going is that if you have this app and I type in a name of a show, there can be from their official page just hundreds of clips that come out from like every Week and like just breaking down the show that they can run ads through as I'm watching and like that just be playing in the background so I can get a better vibe than just. I don't want them people to buy my attention in the same way. Like I don't want them to watch the 45 minutes to get the best three minutes. I just want the best three minutes.
- [28:57]
Bobby
No, I was thinking it. Why is it so easy to get to get into doom scrolling? It's because they can take the five best scenes from a movie, you know, and put them into little 30 and they're amazing scenes. I don't have to watch the whole movie but they're. And they're very entertaining. Like it's. And where like these, these big corporations are missing the boat or ruining things again. Before we had the streaming, you had to buy cable packages from a cable or satellite provider and you had to pay this money. You got all this stuff. And so originally you're like okay, good, I can just. And what I've been saying for years is I just want to pay for what I watch. Like if I want to watch a whole thing, like I don't want to pay anything monthly. I just, if I want to watch this movie, I just want to pay whatever's fair. But as you see, they keep expanding the network, making you sign in, have more passwords. Like essentially they just recreated what that was on came cable now. So it's frustrating but I can get more entertainment with an algorithm that knows what I like on reels that are just taking the best of people's content and feeding it to me.
- [29:55]
Camille
Well, I also think it's hard from the aspect of discoverability. Right? Like it's hard when all of these platforms have so much content to find that new TV show or that new movie. Unless there's some kind of hyper awareness driven through social media.
- [30:09]
Bobby
And when I, you know what the danger. Sorry. They should have an audit audible command to like something. So let's say like I'm cleaning up the dishes, which I'm amazing at the. And then. But that's up. That's. That's on the TV screen, right? What Instagram risks losing, is that it? There's nowhere to click, right? You're far away from the screen. So it should be hey, like that, hey, leave a comment on that. Like there should be an ability to engage with it from a distance because what the mobile phone does is you have this engagement right in your hands because you might get lack of engagement or discoverability but if you like something because. And then they can't see your eyeballs. Like, they can on the phone to see where you're slowing down, what you're watching in order to feed you up new stuff. So they're gonna have to work that out.
- [30:52]
Camille
I mean, we could do an entire episode on all the ways in which Siri could improve in a modern world. But I just think that where this is going just shows you that we had this conversation the other day, which leads into the next headline of, like, I think about, think of all of the things that, that are on broadcast TV that they're losing so much potential on. Like, ads and relevance and eyeballs because they're still committed to having it be watched on tv. Right? Like, even like the Olympics, you know, like, think about how much, like, I would just love to be able to in an easier way. Like, they try to do it through the phones, but, like, it could be way better for like the Olympics. Like, I'm working all day. Like, I would love to just have like the highlights of what happened, like the last 10 minutes.
- [31:37]
Bobby
But you know how, you know how on the controls you can press the voice activated, right? Like for searching.
- [31:43]
Camille
Yeah.
- [31:43]
Bobby
There should be an element where you say, hey, whatever. You know what I mean? Send feedback on this show. Like, on any show. Like, there should be a. We should increase the interaction with whatever we're watching so that the feedback loops loop should happen. So as I'm watching some new show, like, even if it's a reality show, you want to know when people are engaging with it, what they like about it. And if you could just audibly say, hey, Bobby, this was an amazing scene. I love that. You know, like just a way to make it more interactive with the audible. And as an, as an aside, I think Apple should do a campaign that allows you to break up with Siri. Right. And pick and pick something new. Like if they were gonna launch something else. Because it just pop. Like, I hate Siri. Like, every, every time I talk to Siri, I hate her. Like, I'm sure she's a nice person, well intentioned. She is just not the partner that I want on my phone. And they've kept this name brand that has nothing positive about it.
- [32:37]
Camille
It's actually a really interesting problem. Like if, like there could be like a, like almost like a Shopify plugin or like an app that you can buy that's like a better optimized AI.
- [32:47]
Bobby
I want to break up with my, you know, with Syria.
- [32:49]
Camille
Yeah, I'll keep the iPhone.
- [32:50]
Bobby
Yeah. Because, like, give me some options, but.
- [32:52]
Camille
Just give me some options. You know, I'll pay more for to have like a better. An assistant that can just do more for me. Where this AI is as good as they marketed it two years ago, you know, but the next headline is that YouTube got the rights to the Oscars for 2029.
- [33:10]
Bobby
That deal. I wonder if that was a package deal where they also secured the rights to Motorola pagers. Because my idea about the Oscars is that they're entirely not watching. Not worth watching. Like, movies today are absolutely useless garbage. Right? And I can talk about. I have a secret of how to make better movies I can talk about later. But the movies are garbage. That's an old iconic institution that I know YouTube wants to. To go after TV. And events are like the last refuge of network TV. So that just might be kind of a throwaway kill shot that if we take that, they're not going to have any revenue because we want to really just. We want to put them. We want to put them under the ground. Because I don't know how you make the Oscars worth watching for three hours. You know, the way that the award ceremonies are done with how bad the movies are these days.
- [33:55]
Camille
Okay, well, there's two things to talk about. The first angle is it's interesting and about time. I'm shocked that it's that long. Clearly they had to buy out one of the networks because the networks had like, a longevity contract that it doesn't make sense anymore for these networks to hold onto these expensive events because there's no advertisers and there's just. The eyeballs are not there anymore.
- [34:18]
Bobby
It made sense in the past. It used to be the most popular. Sunday, the Oscars was. Was huge. But people didn't have second screen opportunities the same way. And movies were way better and celebrities weren't ruining their brand by getting into politics. Like, now the Oscars is just a virtue signaling pot, you know, political show. It's not.
- [34:38]
Camille
The Oscars have always been political. It's always been an opportunity for people who have a platform to help things that they cared about. The difference is that movies used to be the entertainment. So because we've now introduced something else that is entertainment, we're not as. We're not as entertained by the movies. And during that time, the quality of the movies also dropped off. So it therefore, like, typically, like in the past, like, I would try to watch all of the movies that were making it into the Oscars so that I could have an opinion on the ones that would win. But now the communication channel is broken.
- [35:14]
Bobby
Just second, it's pablum to say they were always political because the Oscars a couple years ago said you could not be nominated for the Oscars unless you met DEI criteria in terms of having a certain percentage of minorities in your film. Like, it fundamentally changed the movie awards.
- [35:31]
Camille
The caliber of the movies that entered, not the spirit speeches that were being made.
- [35:35]
Bobby
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, of course.
- [35:37]
Camille
That's what I'm saying. You were saying that it was all these actors making political statements. Like, that's been happening for, you know, longer.
- [35:43]
Bobby
That has happened. But the Oscars became completely politicized, and it's always been so much.
- [35:47]
Camille
It changed the value of the movies that were getting nominated, which made it less interesting because it was no longer on the merit of the movie, but of the standards that they met. So they would just throw in, like, random scenes that didn't connect to the plot line that just checked the box for these DEI standards. Or, like, it just.
- [36:05]
Bobby
It.
- [36:05]
Camille
Like, it just wasn't.
- [36:06]
Bobby
YouTube could be doing something quite Machiavellian if they want to get the Oscars, like an award for their content, and they're making more content these days. Hosting the Oscars does give them some levers of control over how to get nominated, how to get in there. Like, there's always influence when you're in charge of the whole event. Right. So it could be kind of a guerilla, Machiavellian way.
- [36:26]
Camille
They're not in charge of the event. They're a streaming platform.
- [36:28]
Bobby
I know, but when you host it, you're in. You have charge of it because you're in charge of where you're paying for it. Right. I know they're not organizing it, but when you're hosting it, you have more influence on the event.
- [36:38]
Camille
Yeah, you've got more, like, on how it, like, shows up, how it's recorded, who gets. But what's. It's hilarious because we have, like, the clip from the Verge talking about this, and, like, the one guy is like, it's just going to continue to create categories that Beyonce is going to win in. And it's. They literally have created this award of, like, what made what movie, made the most money in box offices, just so that they can hopefully get an Oscar to get more A list celebrities to show up. Because often the movie that made the most money tends to have the most names, though, too, because they had budget. Right. So it's like, it allows to have big names to show up at the Oscars again. But what's interesting about this, though, and I do think it's worth talking about as an aside for the Oscars sucking and like, they need strategic help. They need. They need a rebrand. They need. The Oscars needs a rebrand. But outside of the Oscars needing a rebrand, what I think is fascinating about this move is that I found myself several times this year missing the moment when it was live and going back to watch it because of the response on social media. So the Victoria's Secret fashion show we watched the next day, Vogue World, I watched the next day. I'm finding that approximate, close to it. Approximate close to it. But I need there to be a place the Matthew Blasey Matre d', Art, you know, like, I find that social media is driving a dialogue that reinforces that something was worth my time and I'm waiting for that feedback loop to go and decide to put time into it than needing to watch it live like we used to, because we had to.
- [38:05]
Bobby
Yeah. So I guess then the people who are watching it live then influence who watches it subsequently.
- [38:10]
Camille
Yes.
- [38:11]
Bobby
So that's an interesting strategy point there.
- [38:13]
Camille
And that to me is when I say that Oscars need to rebrand, what they need to be cognizant of is second viewing. So how do you construct and make an event not necessarily worth the loyalist eyeballs that are gonna watch it on that first Sunday, but to generate people coming back to watching it for the subsequent week, like that's the move that they need to be on top of.
- [38:37]
Bobby
The world has almost changed. To you run a live event, the only people watching are influencers who want to pick out what was good about the event to share on their feeds to get eyeballs which then might bring you back there. Like it's a whole different movement.
- [38:48]
Camille
It's a whole different movement. And that to me is what I think is most relevant is even when I talk about, like, I know the Oscars, I mean, the Oscars, the Olympics have done this, but I don't find they did a good enough job of creating these are the pieces worth you watching based on the feedback and the reaction that we received on social media. So, like, if they could generate, like, I don't need to watch a three hour award show.
- [39:10]
Bobby
If you know the Olympic Committee, very kind of, we'll do it the way we tell you to to watch it. Right. So they don't agree that the shot put might not be as exciting as 100 meter dash. Like, you know, it's scheduled in a way. But they didn't want you to parse out the Olympics. They wanted you to watch all of the events or you know, all of the butterfly swimming events as of. You know what I mean? Like so they resisted doing what you're talking about. But that's a great point by you.
- [39:35]
Camille
Yeah, I think it needs to change. Then the next one. There's another headline on your. What was your headline again? The.
- [39:41]
Bobby
The three pronged deathstroke that will bury the television networks forever.
- [39:46]
Camille
And that's why folks will always be better than AI because how could you, how could you find this like on. But the third headline is Netflix collabs with Barstool Sports. And what's interesting about this is one, I actually love the way that Dave Portnoy, like it was like the most non press release press release, but it was so on brand to barstool, which is like so, so awesome. I love how he's built this empire and stayed so true to this like hilarious brand. But what's interesting is they've moved to putting barstool sports like the podcast on Netflix, which is interesting because when you think about the Netflix experience, most people go to watch a movie maybe once a week and they leave. So they've got a really high churn rate of people leaving the platform. Whereas a podcast people show up every week to listen to the podcast. So it's increasing the amount of eyeballs and relationship connection with Netflix that people feel more reasons to go to Netflix to consume the content that they're doing on a more frequent basis.
- [40:42]
Bobby
Meta gets live TV so that your TV could be used for reels because it was hard to do that in the past. YouTube was doing it too. So now that TV screen is easier to use. Instagram, that stuff.
- [40:52]
Camille
Yep.
- [40:53]
Bobby
YouTube buys award shows, award shows which were events that brought people to the networks.
- [40:58]
Camille
Yeah.
- [40:58]
Bobby
And Netflix is doing football and sports, which was the last podcasting and podcasting which was the last vestige. And so by getting the podcaster who has the most influence on sports viewers, they're now going to bring more sports viewers to their sports programming. And that, my friends, is the end of all of the networks.
- [41:18]
Camille
It makes sense when you think about how like I am finding that I go to YouTube, like more and more like that reality TV show I was talking about at the nail salon. Like I went to YouTube to be like, are there like some episodes that I can watch before I commit to purchasing the like Disney plus? Like I just, I feel like these, the we're moving towards the ability to stream, you know, TV doesn't make sense in a streaming world.
- [41:43]
Bobby
My guerrilla marketing strategy right now would be to try to get Dave Portnoy to like my films. Yeah, right, because his opinion on films is really gonna make a big difference. It already does. But. But once he's on Netflix on a platform that's doing it, like, this guy has an audience and people aren't using him.
- [42:00]
Camille
Agreed. The next is your favorite topic. We're now going to break down in a box.
- [42:06]
Bobby
I got enough haters.
- [42:07]
Camille
I know, but we're talking about Trump in the media wars. So the headline I wanted to start with is Melania Trump is releasing Melania the movie, which is a documentary in connection with Amazon MGM Studios. So Amazon and MGM came together and they're releasing this documentary to talking about her. It's an unprecedented fly on the wall inside look into what it's like being the first lady of the United States in their second term. And it's a really compelling documentary. But why this matters is it shows you, like, when you think about it, all of these first ladies and presidents, they wrote books. Michelle Obama did a book. Joe Biden did a book. So they all do books. They don't do documentaries. And. And it's such a way more consumable and accessible way for people to hear that story without having to read a book. Crazy concept.
- [43:01]
Bobby
People are tied to old institutions that make them think that they're special. So I gotta write a book. What Melania's done is like, look, it's easy to consume an hour and see my life.
- [43:10]
Camille
No, it's easier for me to walk around the last eight years with a cameraman and have them edit it than for me to sit down and try to recount with my memory what happened in the last eight years.
- [43:22]
Bobby
Ghostwriter. But it's this kind of arrogance of intellectualism is, I'll write a book. And I'm sure all the other first ladies are pooh, poohing, oh, she's doing a video. She can't write a book. You didn't write your book. It was ghost written. And it's the best sleep aid in the world because you don't say anything interesting.
- [43:35]
Camille
So true. That was my absolute criticism of the Obama book. I committed 18 hours on audible to this book. And at the end I'm like, what? What did I learn?
- [43:43]
Bobby
No, nothing. Nothing. No. But it's interesting.
- [43:45]
Camille
I like Michelle Obama's book, though. I did like that.
- [43:47]
Bobby
It's interesting from a perspective to see what's going on and to get that insight. And people can pick it up like so it's a recognition of the actual media landscape in which people consume stuff.
- [43:58]
Camille
Don't get me wrong, there's a ton of circles in which it's a rite of passage to have read the Michelle Obama book. But there's a lot more people in the past, in the past, when I was asked by women like, you know, what books would you recommend me read? I always was like the Sheryl Sandberg book, don't roll your eyes, Michelle Obama book. And so many people hadn't, wouldn't, didn't read it because it's not easy for the masses to read a book. This is just such a more modern, like it shows you how much they understand media and attention that they're doing something that is so much more relevant and before even the end of the term. So they're like, they're actually creating like fans and hype and awareness as it's happening to drive the media story forward.
- [44:45]
Bobby
Yeah, it's part of the political campaign, but it's a better way to do it. It's so much fun because all that a book would do is, you know what I mean? Like all of the people who hate Melania will just write how bad it is.
- [44:56]
Camille
And I, truthfully, I don't know if I'd read her book but like I definitely would watch her documentary.
- [45:00]
Bobby
It's. It's always about story, right? So I don't know.
- [45:03]
Camille
I just, I just don't know if, I don't know if I would. Honestly, I don't know if I would. But I would definitely watch the documentary. Like I'm, I'm actually excited to look at even her fashion. Like the clothing, like the style that was the biggest thing with the second term is like a Liah dressed her. Like the first term it was like nobody wanted to touch her with a ten foot pole. And then the second term she is like this fashion icon that these fashion brands can't get enough of. And it's such an interesting change.
- [45:25]
Bobby
It's hilarious that Amazon is also doing this thing like money talks because it's going to get a lot of views.
- [45:31]
Camille
Oh yeah.
- [45:32]
Bobby
Like it's, it's very media savvy.
- [45:35]
Camille
Totally. Well, and then have you.
- [45:37]
Bobby
Yeah. And just, and moving into like I. Camille puts me in a box. Like I, I was in the Green Party at one point. I was a hippie, saw the Grateful Dead. Like I've been a liberal for a lot of my life, but I'm able to change my mind based on good evidence. And so I do recognize that some things Trump administration does are effective and we need to learn from people that we disagree with. And Trump is an absolute master.
- [46:00]
Camille
I agree with that.
- [46:00]
Bobby
At the media he is. And you can, you can criticize him all day long, but every time you're criticizing him, you're just making him more popular with the people who are voting for him. And he knows that. And he's a perfect example of somebody who understands his brand and moves forward with that purpose and ignores the distractions of people around him.
- [46:20]
Camille
Well, which is actually, I want you to. Why don't you touch on that for a moment, Talk about his media interview this week and what you talked to me about a few weeks ago, about how they don't focus on the distraction tactics and how that's like allowing him to propel forward.
- [46:34]
Bobby
Real power is exercised behind the curtain of what you think is going on. So for everybody who's sure they know what the world is like, what they're seeing is usually a curtain, like the power mechanism, the power stuff is going on behind. And you're actually intended to be outraged all the time because you're not really seeing what's going on. Trump is a master at that. Like, he'll say something crazy and everybody will think he's insane. He's just said it's crazy because he knows it's going to soak up a news cycle and take people away from what he may be trying to do somewhere else. So there's, there's a lot of strategy behind a person that everybody loves to call dumb. And when it came to the press conference this week, I think it was Wednesday night at 8:00'. Clock. Right. How do you get all of the networks to cover your press conference at Wednesday at 8 o' clock when they don't, a lot of them don't really like you. Well, it looked to me when I did some research that he deliberately leaked some stories that he was going to announce that he was going to war with Venezuela and he was using all of the, kind of the mainstream media outlets that were saying, oh my God, he's out of control with Venezuela, he's doing this, he's doing this. And, and so somebody, everyone tuned in and so somebody in his team said, let's leak a couple things that we're going to announce. We're going to go to war Venezuela. Every media outlet goes live and he spends the first, and it's only a 20 minute talk, this time is one of his shortest ones. And he just spends 20 minutes telling the American people. How amazing what he's done. Like about what he's done. So he captured super bowl level eyeballs. Eyeballs, right.
- [48:01]
Camille
And it's a, it was even more than that. You can't glaze past like the details. He begins by introducing that the tariffs are so successful that he's giving the checks have already been cut for veterans to have like cash in their pocket for the holidays. Like $1,100 for every service person from.
- [48:23]
Bobby
Private to five star general.
- [48:25]
Camille
Like every single person.
- [48:27]
Bobby
Because 1700.
- [48:29]
Camille
1700 for every single person. And because they made so much extra money with all the budget cuts and the tariffs that they had budget to be able to give back into the pockets of American people like that when you have all of these eyeballs and being so polarized to come in and to be like look. And then, and then to use that as a way to say stats have never been better. We've never had more people enrolling in the military. Compare it to where it was before they had the lowest enrollment. And then to be able to go on to basically puffing his chest on how great everything else is. He sets the tone with a real action that allows the people who love him to like, like bow down to him. Like it, it, it creates a religious connection with this person. And we're too busy to say that we dislike him, to not want to like learn from how he's able to manipulate the media to provide the message and the positioning that he, he that that is allowing him to win.
- [49:26]
Bobby
In your business like you. There are pejoratives that we use to people that we don't like or agree with. And so you can say manipulative, but it's, it's effective use of media. And in today's world, if you want to get attention to something that you're doing, you can't go the traditional route. Hire the old marketing company, go in the paper doing like. You have to have people around you who can come up with creative strategic techniques that get you attention. That's the lesson learned for you. Like hate them all you like. And for some people it doesn't matter because he gives, he gives $7,700 to every serving member of the US forces. Right? And for a brand new private who's coming out of a poor area of the US they don't get paid that much that 1700 bucks could pay for a flight back to see their family. They're not paid like it has a tremendous effect on their life. And he attributes it directly to tariffs saying other Countries paid. So that that's good. Now if you're Whoopi Goldberg, you say this is Trump trying to bribe soldiers to participate in his revolution later. Like, it's how, you know, it's not really good thinking. So the way the world goes is if you're going to do something for your product, do something strategic, do something interesting. And don't worry about haters, just move.
- [50:36]
Camille
And you're so right. And also, sorry for cutting you off because that was actually a really good final point. You're only speaking to your base, like, make them your most loyal fans and evangelists. Because when in that what you're getting to is so intelligent. We talk about this all the time. Like Black Friday sales. Why are you giving generic sales to everyone instead of being special to the people that support you throughout the year? Like, that was my favorite things that Aritzia did. Just make this like a branding moment. They always had clientele which were like, they gave me a special window before they opened it up to a public, the public, where I would get first access to the products going on sale so I could get my size. And it made me feel so special. It made me so loyal to the brand. I always spent money because they knew who their customer was and they spoke to their customer. They also gave me a really high quality gift every year, like a really good quality, like a gorgeous candle or like a really nice beach bag that I've kept. And it's the same thing. It's like, reward the people who love you, take care of them, use it as an opportunity. Even the criticism we gave of summer Fridays this year of doing that, like, million dollar event with like famous celebrities, like, don't do that. Like spend that money on the people who spend who buy your products, not.
- [51:47]
Bobby
On other celebs, like the people who like you. Keep them liking you, obviously, in your business. But when you're overly focused on criticism or haters. It's true in politics. It's true in business. You can win the 20% in the middle, you know, that are between you and your competitor. And in politics, in order to win, all you're trying to do is convince the 20% of the independents in the middle. So the people who absolutely hate you, they're never gonna like you. So don't worry about pissing off the people who hate your brand ever.
- [52:15]
Camille
Yeah.
- [52:16]
Bobby
Message to your base and to the people who are in that realm of independent who can come there. And don't worry about pissing people off.
- [52:21]
Camille
You're so right. And then also Just before we wrap up on Trump, did you see that he launched the Patriot Games this week? So it's a national athletic competition for high schoolers to celebrate America's 250th anniversary. And the format involves.
- [52:34]
Bobby
So there are so many jokes I could do on this.
- [52:36]
Camille
One boy and one girl from every state at the top athletic performance and there to compete against all the other picks from the other states. And instantly people were like, this is the Hunger Games. Like he launched the Hunger Games. But it speaks to the. He's so smart. And in that he uses a format that allows the haters to go crazy about it. But when you read it to celebrate, it's really like the American Olympics, right? They're just picking the two best athletes in every state. And they're not making it a man thing, they're making it a woman and a man thing. And they're just going to celebrate the athletes within America.
- [53:12]
Bobby
You know, it's cool because you can make a kind of a decathlon type event of like all around American athlete, like, which would be fun. Like have a cool obstacle.
- [53:20]
Camille
American Ninja Warrior.
- [53:21]
Bobby
American Ninja Warrior. Like that's a very athletic based.
- [53:24]
Camille
But it's a show that already has views like he's so smart in that he, he's leaning into themes that allows the haters to give him media and.
- [53:32]
Bobby
And kids, which is always dangerous because you know, like kids are important. Like people always fight for the minds of kids young. But by having that contest, the haters, they want you to feel guilty for trying to promote your country. So you call it the Patriot Games. You make it a great story. They can say it's like the Hunger Games. The Hunger Games was popular because it was a good story story.
- [53:50]
Camille
So with Squid Games, you know what I mean?
- [53:52]
Bobby
Like, but the Patriot Games of the States competing, that will be a good story. Like it's also like the Long Walk, which is a shitty movie, but great book. But imagine the work up to that every year, the people who are competing to do it. And I can see some states maybe trying to squeeze in some advantages based on, you know, how they fill their gender rules. But I don't know if that's going to work.
- [54:11]
Camille
No way he's going to allow that. No, but that's. I, I just, it goes back to, he's creating interesting headlines, he's creating an interesting dialogue. It's, it's sadly, the world is too divisive and I, and I don't want that. But I, it's, it's so much to Learn from a messaging standpoint.
- [54:26]
Bobby
I would like to see. I like that type of stuff. Especially if there was like some sort of scholarship. Because you don't have to be incredibly rich to win that.
- [54:34]
Camille
No, there you win. You win something that's like, really? So it's basically. It attempts to create a new American institution from scratch to rival the NCAA or the Olympics. And it's catering to cultural attention on specific definitions of patriotism. And then there'll be brands that can associate it like it. There's for sure going to be a huge prize that like to your point is like a scholarship is something like it's. It's good.
- [54:58]
Bobby
I like those type of things. Even for. For students who are. You don't have to be athletic, but you know what I mean? Like. Like the science.
- [55:03]
Camille
But he's also making a Patriot people famous.
- [55:05]
Bobby
They should take the science fair and make that into a national kind of science. Patriot Games.
- [55:11]
Camille
He's allowing them to build personal brands and platforms off of this. Where like we're celebrating. It's no longer like Love island in the Bachelor. Like it's actually speaking to merit and seeing how impressive people are in our communities.
- [55:23]
Bobby
No. And when they intro the athletes, you're gonna hear their story.
- [55:28]
Camille
Yeah, right.
- [55:29]
Bobby
Where they. I'm from Nebraska. I did this. You know, my father passed away in Afghanistan. I did this. And you have a whole. Like. It's amazing. Americana.
- [55:36]
Camille
Yeah. It's so true. So moving on. Next is heritage branding is in. I wanted to talk about this quickly. Cause I haven't had an opportunity to talk about it in the last few episodes. We kind of touched on it last week in that we were talking about the Pinterest 2026 trends. But Heritage branding is really had a moment this year. Whether we talk about it from the Burberry campaigns to roots went back to it with our holiday campaigns this year. Bringing back their traditional. Going back funny enough to their roots. Ralph Lauren has had a massive groundswell. It's been super successful. And I wanted to introduce this stat that before Christmas at Halloween, before Halloween hit, there was already 5 million searches on Ralph Lauren Christmas. Like the aesthetic of Ralph Lauren and for brands that have heritage, you need to lean into why you've existed for as long as you've existed. And going back to what made you great. Because it's proven with Burberry and Ralph Lauren that people. People have. That these Gen Z's have grown up during a time where everything was innovative and novel. And they want to go back to these classic aesthetics that Represent quality. Like newness isn't novel. Tradition is what people are hungry for, the insight.
- [56:56]
Bobby
And I don't know if this, if this fits into the podcast, but, like, history rhymes, it doesn't always repeat itself, but there's really lessons that we can learn from, from our past and from our elders and from what's happened. And, like, we need to always look for innovation. But the things that brought family together did so because it really made people feel special and warm and safe and beautiful. And so we learn from the past. And I think heritage, if something becomes a trend, it's like books. The longer a book is on the bestseller list, the longer it will, the more likely it'll be around in a century. Right? Yeah, because it's been proven to last. Right. So if something's on the bestseller list one year, it'll be forgotten in three years.
- [57:38]
Camille
Yeah.
- [57:38]
Bobby
But if it's been on the bestseller list for 10 years, 100 years from now, people will be talking about it. And so if something is heritage or tradition, there was something about it that was amazing. Like, all the other stuff were naturally selected out. So going back to heritage and getting your brand into it or creating its own tradition is a way to be successful.
- [57:57]
Camille
Well, yeah, agreed, agreed. I think, and that's really all that I wanted to say on that point, is if you have a brand that has heritage, now is the time to lean in, to lean into that and like, all the way. Like, stop. Stop trying to be new. Like, go back to what made you great. So, which is interesting because on a different lens, I want to talk about Alex Earle and that she joins Georgie and it really speaks to now to go to. To the novel side, the influencer side, how the relationship with influencers are changed, changing, in that it's no longer a pay to play landscape. So in case you didn't know, this is not Alex Earl's first time in partnering with a beverage company. So previous to Georgie, Alex Earle had partnered with Poppy and had gotten equity and invested in the company. And she basically exited major when they sold the PepsiCo for almost $2 billion. And what's interesting is Alix Earle was in Poppy's super bowl commercial. She was in tons of content. Alix Earle is seen to be like, the most influential Gen Z influencer. They actually have a term called, like, the Alix Earle effect. And like, whatever she touches tends to sell out. And now she's. She has an abundance of people that are wanting to pay her money to post. She's now moving into a realm of I'm putting my own money in and I'm going to give you equity to use my likeness because it's now going to be worth way more money. And she's using this playbook a second time with Georgie, which is another female beverage company, to see if she can do it again. And it just speaks to like how the influencer landscape is changing.
- [59:32]
Bobby
Yeah, for me, you see it from the influencer perspective. I see it from the, the founder or the business owner perspective is like, how do I get. Way too many founders flounder when they're trying to do an exit strategy. They don't know how to kind of get that multiple that they want to sell their business because they want to do it the way they did it before because they just want to spend on these people and they don't want to give away equity. And usually you wouldn't give away any equity, especially to somebody who in quotes was an influencer. But in the metrics today that amplify exit value, partnering with the right influencer as you're getting ready can really make you way more money for giving away a little bit of the company. And not an influencer, but somebody who knows how to message you in advance. Digital world, because that's critical.
- [60:17]
Camille
Also when you think about too like think about how many times Alex Earl posted about it, had it in the background, decided to do a Super bowl commercial. Like, she's way more incentivized to show up in more ways when she gets a piece.
- [60:30]
Bobby
Yeah, it's a force multiplier major, like, I love that term. It's a force multiplier. It's not like a linear multiplier. Like, if you have that type of weight behind you in terms of eyeballs, like you will, you will change what you get from your company 100%. So it's brilliant.
- [60:43]
Camille
100%. And then the last thing I want.
- [60:45]
Bobby
To talk about, one more after.
- [60:47]
Camille
Okay, so the last thing I wanted to talk about is Salomon. It hires an mm6 designer. So Salomon, the ski brand, activewear brand, taps the former creative director. Listen to this. Heiki Solonin for Solomon, the former creative director of mm6. Mason Margiela as its new brand director.
- [61:08]
Bobby
Very Finnish name.
- [61:10]
Camille
And what makes what I think is really interesting is that it cements Gorp core as the true luxury and that Solman is no longer just a hiking shoe. They are hiring the high fashion talent so that they can compete with brands like Balenciaga, like Miu Miu, like even, you know, with Heider Ackerman joining in. Canada goose. It shows you that we're now in a place where we're blending practical and high profile performance outdoor gear with everyday high fashion and everyday kind of urban style.
- [61:41]
Bobby
This GORP core is a cool. What did it stand for again? The gorp?
- [61:44]
Camille
Good old raisins and peanuts.
- [61:45]
Bobby
Yeah.
- [61:46]
Camille
So GORP core is the fashion trend of blending basically what I just said, the high performance outdoor gear with the hiking jackets, fleece cargo plants, chunky boots with everyday urban styled. And it's named Gorp, which is like basically the classic trail mix. And it's, it's one second it's characterized by the functional, durable and often technical fabrics. So it has to have like an element of technicality to it that makes it more than just like an active or style. Like there's an elevation to the design through the technology of the fabric.
- [62:14]
Bobby
I think people are moving towards if they're going to spend money on luxury, they want it to work. And because the people who are buying luxury products are more outdoorsy and athletic than I think they were in the path that they're demanding more than just a logo slapped on a running shoe. They actually want a walking tool that is the best walking tool. Right. And so you have to go to the people who've been in the industry for 40 years or 50 years making the best walking or hiking thing so that that's the natural place to go from luxury. Not Gucci throwing something on a Chinese made hiking boot and calling that luxury.
- [62:45]
Camille
You know, I think less people, there's a very small percentage of people that find the need to have a closet stacked full of designer brands. Like the majority of the, the upper middle class and middle class. There's a range of brands where they have like luxury accessories have never been higher. Like it's through the roof, men and women. That is growing very quickly. The resale market for bags and shoes is growing very quickly in accessories. But I think there's like when I look at the Salomon brand one of my clients had in the background of their Zoom this week, it's not that it's luxury, it's that it's a more polished activewear brand. Like it comes across as more premium and that we're buying like I don't want to buy Nike anymore.
- [63:28]
Bobby
Well, I can tell you that Salomon's brand is solid because the best hikers used it right. Like it had credibility from the people who used it under the most extreme circumstances. But in the past, the people who were buying that product had limited resources. Right. So they couldn't overpay for things. But what I feel like what I'm seeing in industries is now as everybody wants to, to kind of go the next level. And so now people who want the best walking, hiking or whatever wear want more, but they're going to the people who have expertise in it and saying, give me a better, higher price point version of what the old consumer could afford.
- [64:06]
Camille
Well, what you're saying that's smart is Salomon had elevated its brand because its shoe became a fashion statement. Like, it became a piece of fashion. And you saw a lot of people wearing it as had nothing to do with hiking or working out. It became like the shoe they were wearing to the office with dress pants. Like it became fashionable to wear Solomon sneakers. And it's interesting because when you're trying to compete in a saturated landscape, I mean, it goes back to our conversation on like the Louis Vayon cloud. Like, there's a desire for people to want to look good and kind of fit in this premium box while wearing functional, technical products that make sense. Like, there's less and less women that want to wear stilettos to the office. Right. Like the shoes, they want to be functional and like to make sense, but they want it to look good and like, it doesn't look good to wear like Nikes, you know, when you're an executive, like, there's just. And I'm not saying that Solomon is that, but I'm. But it's getting closer to the direction that it's more respectable for you to show up in a brand like Solomon because it, it looks so good.
- [65:12]
Bobby
Well, Salomon doesn't look good in an office environment. It looks like a hiking shoe. Like it's not going to be part of the dress code of any.
- [65:17]
Camille
Well, not, you know, a law firm.
- [65:18]
Bobby
But if it's like a marketing, you know what I mean? It's a way of showing what you what matters too. Right. Like, I'm an outdoors person, but you.
- [65:25]
Camille
Know what's really quick? I want an interesting. When I was doing research for this segment, the Solomon story is that it began in 1947 in an France as a family workshop that made sense ski edges. And it evolved into an innovative ski bindings called the Skate. So, you know, like when you go skiing now and you like click out. That was Salomon's design. So they transform. Yeah, they revolutionized the ski boot experience and like having technical design to make skiing better. And they were purchased in 1997 by Adidas and then they were sold and purchased by amer sports in 2000, 2005. And the brand has since basically expanded into trail running and hiking gear and has had a cult status in fashion for its technical gorp core aesthetic that is exemplified by shoes like the XT6.
- [66:14]
Bobby
Cool.
- [66:15]
Camille
So I thought it was a cool story that Salomon became a name because they really transformed a sport.
- [66:19]
Bobby
But it comes from product excellence, like a natural evolution into. Into product excellence. Yeah, yeah, because I know, because as a hiker, you don't want to roll your ankle. And because they had amazing ski boots where you can't roll your ankle. Like, Salomon always had that kind of reputation for the best place not to roll an ankle in the mountain.
- [66:37]
Camille
No. And that's exactly what they translated into shoes is that exact same, like, level of expertise in design. So I thought that was fascinating in the research, but that's everything I got. Let's finish your last.
- [66:47]
Bobby
So I want to talk a little bit about Rob Reiner and it talks about your point on heritage, because as we know, Rob Reiner tragically died in the last week. And he was an icon in terms of building excellence in movies like his book, like Princess Bride, one of the best movies ever made, I think. Stand By Me, like so many spectacular. But most people who are around my age know him as Meathead from a show called Archie bunker in the 1970s done by this amazing director. Archie Bunker is one of the most popular TV shows because it showed the contrast between generations. And he was sexist, homophobic, racist, but he came from a generation. And then Rob Reiner played Meathead, who was the hippie in that time period.
- [67:35]
Camille
He represented the change.
- [67:37]
Bobby
He represented the change. And there was constant tension in the family. And it was called all in the Family, but there was tension between the young and the old and the skin kind of fighting. And he was really representing the father. Archie Bunker was representing this outdated period. But the arguments and the reason why, if you guys get a second to watch the last episode of the last season, season eight, and watch the exchange between Rob Briner as the son, son in law, taking Archie's daughter to California, and the exchange he has with the old guy. And it's really quite touching, but, you know, this Christmas, you know, I just. People should be able to have disagreements with people and keep things in the family. But that's kind of a very cool way of looking at the past because I think today when we look at how we have discussions in our family, they're much more adversarial. Than they were back then. And I just want to give a shout out to Rob Reiner and we miss him. He's an amazing, amazing actor. Trump shouldn't have sent that tweet about him when he passed, but you know, he was an amazing guy to live this.
- [68:38]
Camille
Yeah, it's really, it's a really, a sad story.
- [68:40]
Bobby
All right, well, on that note, have a good Christmas.
- [68:42]
Camille
Merry Christmas, everybody.
- [68:43]
Bobby
Nice to each other, be nice to each other. Disagree.
- [68:46]
Camille
And we cannot wait to see you one more time before next year.
- [68:49]
Bobby
We're gonna be in LA first week.
- [68:50]
Camille
Of January that we will and we're getting actually a bunch of really cool interviews with some like some great people that own brands. We've got a lot of exciting stuff in store for 2026 March.
- [69:01]
Bobby
We've got a conference coming up for some select founders.
- [69:03]
Camille
Yes, actually that's a great, great to talk about. So we're going to be putting on a, a conference. It's going to be capped at 150. 150 people. We have some really big names that are going to be speaking. It's all about, it's for founders, for people who want to level up in branding and business. I will have the lineup confirmed shortly. The mostly female founder folks, mostly female founders. But it's like not going to be fluff. Like it's not. I love women in business. Right now it's all female speakers. Might be some male speakers, but it's gonna be an awesome event. I need to get the landing page out soon to pre sell the tickets. It's gonna be amazing. So if you want to come, it's in LA on the location's on Venice Beach. It's so freaking cool.
- [69:48]
Bobby
It's designed to level up your personal, your company brand and just hang around with brilliant people.
- [69:53]
Camille
I'm getting asked to speak at all of these like female business things and I just, they're all like, they're not giving the great information away. Like let's talk about TikTok shop. Let's talk about raising money. Let's talk about having a personal brand. Let's talk about like this, navigate. Like I want to discuss the things that are really hard for business owners. So if you're interested, send me a note on Instagram so I can put you aside because I think the tickets are going to go really quickly. Merry Christmas everybody.
- [70:19]
Bobby
Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to everybody.