← The Art of the Brand
The Art of the Brand
From Augusta to AliExpress: What Golf, Luxury, and Space Travel Teach Us About Branding.
01:27:29
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- [00:00]
Camille
Why was Katy Perry selected? Like Katy, Katy Perry is a, is a pop star who's not doing anything relevant, who hasn't used her platform for social good or for social change. And the video of her going up into space is like talking about how she like, wants to make it glam and like how she's not surprised that she was selected. And instead you should use it like, you should manifest to like make things happen. And like, there's definitely power in manifestation, but there's also in like doing the work.
- [00:30]
Philip
What a brand, what a brand, what.
- [00:32]
Camille
A brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Welcome back everybody to Art of the Brand. We're recording this weekend, on Easter weekend because Philip is in a high profile court case right now that we, we.
- [00:51]
Philip
Can'T chat about because it's ongoing. But it's, it's quite, it's quite entertaining and I'll talk about it at some point in the future. But happy to discuss these amazing topics we have today.
- [01:00]
Camille
We've got a range of topics. Today we are going to be breaking down the Masters. Why this year it felt like a bigger deal than years previous, especially to the non golfing audience. We're going to be talking about the breakout Chinese factories and the kind of looming question of like, is this the end of luxury? If you haven't seen this on social, stay tuned for the segment. It's really fascinating.
- [01:26]
Philip
Some good strategy points here on business.
- [01:28]
Camille
We've got some crazy hot or not. This week we're going to break down the Amazon Blue Origin PR piece. There's a huge iPhone lawsuit. I think it's gonna be super relevant. Want your thoughts on this Brands using substack, a different way to kind of approach building a community. And then I've got like our more kind of traditional hot or nots and then really a kind of a break, a conversation that we had this week that we're going to develop further on kind of a AI thoughts and like the power of in person and where this is going.
- [01:57]
Philip
Yeah, that'll be amazing.
- [01:58]
Camille
So got tons of topics to break down and do you want to get started with Masters?
- [02:03]
Philip
Let's do it. All right. Let's start off the podcast by talking about the Masters. It's something that I've always loved being a longtime golf enthusiast and you are now developing a love for golf but don't watch it on TV a lot. But this year I saw you were particularly fascinated with how the Masters was being Executed from a brand perspective.
- [02:20]
Camille
What actually interests me about the Masters had nothing to do with its TV presence. The Masters did such a fantastic job of. I'm calling it the Coachella, the Coachella ization of the Masters, because they really became socially relevant without compromising what made it so iconic. So I learned a lot this year about the Masters as someone who golfs, and I don't know a ton about golf, but I know enough that I learned way more this year because of their approach to social than I had previously.
- [02:52]
Philip
So I want to ask two questions. First of all, for those of us who haven't been to Coachella, maybe you could tell me what the Coachella visation of things are, and then maybe I'd ask you to speak about. Or what I think is when you say you learned a lot more about the Masters this year, to me, you learned a lot more about the story, which then made the Master seem way cooler.
- [03:13]
Camille
Yes.
- [03:14]
Philip
Right.
- [03:14]
Camille
Well, I think before I answer your questions, the underscoring point that I want to take away from this segment is don't assume people know your story. Right. There's always a larger audience. There's always a audience. There's always a reminder needed from the people that are even a part of your tribe. And the Masters this year, perfect example, is that my dad, when we showed up to his house this past weekend, he was reinforcing those storytelling elements because it was our 70th year anniversary, they really double down on their story. And my dad is an avid golf listener. So what it shows you is that you can't ever get too cocky to not continue to reinforce your story because people are so busy living their own lives.
- [04:00]
Philip
Yeah. It's almost like they realized, this is interesting. You get a loyal tribe who gives you feedback into your decision making that just says, you're amazing, you're amazing, you're amazing. But there's still a lot of people out there that might love your story. And so stepping out of that kind of inner circle to. To broadcast, I think they increased their broadcast range by using social media this year.
- [04:22]
Camille
They did. And I. I love how you said that. It's a really core theme that I want to start breaking down is like understanding your audience from outer circle versus inner circle. Right. Because the Masters has demand. Like, they. They're sold out for tickets five years in advance. They've got an inner circle community that is by no means small, but there is a larger outer circle of people who even may tune in, whatever that need to be reinforced on those storytelling principles. And that's what further transforms outer circle to inner circle, because now I feel inclined to get tickets to a future Masters because I'm now bought into the brand like I'm bought into the story. It's less about the product of being a golf tournament, but more about being a part of a larger legacy and allure.
- [05:08]
Philip
I think you want to be associated with something that's special.
- [05:11]
Camille
Yes.
- [05:12]
Philip
And in today's current environment, there's almost a move back to. To purity of brand or purity of experience, because so much stuff is temporary and flighting or AI or, you know, and the amount of people who paid attention to event where there was no phones allowed, you know, but there was rich tradition and history. It's amazing.
- [05:32]
Camille
Well, truthfully, the reason why the Oscars and the Grammys and these big award shows are on the decline is because they haven't focused on the preservation of brand like the Masters has. And there's a lot that these legacy brands that are. That are on the decline can learn from a brand like the Masters. Which is where I want to break down your point on the Coachella visation of the Masters. There really hasn't been a moment in golf like that Coachella experience online in that, yes, you know, like, there's like, you know, waste management where they do concerts and such, but there is, like, events in golf, and then there is like, Coachella in life is like kind of the two ways that I would. I would separate it is Coachella's become a brand moment. It's become a center point of. There's more eyeballs on that concert than like, tickets to go to or even interest in the musical kind of guests. Because Coachella's become more of a site for brand activation, fashion inspiration. Really kind of a moment of zeitgeist analyzation. It's like, larger than a fashion show. It's larger than, like, it's. It's really become a big brand moment.
- [06:44]
Philip
And I actually think Coachella is on the down in terms of the brand experience because it's being oversaturated. Like, it doesn't have a ceremony. Like, it's got a good name and people go there. Whereas I think what we're seeing in how the Masters is moving into how it broadcasts is something that could replace it. Right. Whether it's. I keep. We always keep going back to ceremony has so much importance in people's appreciation of events. Like things that are done a specific way for a specific reason that are non negotiable. To me, that's what makes the Masters, like, on everybody's bucket list. Like, anybody who golfs the Masters is the bucket list to get there. Right. And it's because it's made special by something ceremony preservation of.
- [07:27]
Camille
Well, okay, so I agree with you. All those points are relevant. You know, the. The passing of the green jacket being done in a specific place on site. The jacket only being able to leave Augusta for one year, and then it has to forever live in, like, the locker of the person who won. The, like, days leading up to it. The, like, players dinner, where, like, the last winner curates isn't in charge of the menu. And then Wednesday, it's the 33 par 3 championship. Or, like, the wife and the kids are like the caddy. Like, there's just so much. You can't call them guests.
- [08:04]
Philip
I'd be patient.
- [08:06]
Camille
Cell phones.
- [08:06]
Philip
You know what I think it's amazing, too, is you have experience in ceremony, but you don't give away everything, like, to everybody. Like, most people don't know that there's always a. Of a stock. Can't remember the term they use. But there's always a player in the Masters because it usually they re. They don't round out to perfect foursomes. And so the top golfer at Augusta from the club gets to golf in the first round of the Masters. Right. And it's an interesting thing because everybody's like, who is this person? And people are always trying to figure out, who is this person. I don't know them, but it's the top golfer, and he's often done a wicked job on it. Like, it's these little things that you hide. What are they called in movies when you hide those?
- [08:48]
Camille
Like a plant.
- [08:49]
Philip
Yeah. Like, there's like, little stories always to uncover. Like, you don't tell the whole story right away. You allow people to kind of go down levels of. Of finding ceremony and experiences.
- [08:59]
Camille
Totally, totally, totally. I mean, that's what makes the Masters so fascinating is like, there's no shortage of story, like, even to the way that they. They basically have turned down, like, all of the major broadcasting deals, which would be like, above 20 million per Masters weekend, because they don't want this to be like a brand festival.
- [09:18]
Philip
They want to keep control of their brand.
- [09:20]
Camille
Yes.
- [09:20]
Philip
So they didn't sell out for $100 million contract. They've stayed with CBS. It's the longest partnership with a.
- [09:26]
Camille
And they all the. All they tell. Like, the. The. The anchors on the Internet have, like, the cbs. I. Yeah, they get their own jacket.
- [09:35]
Philip
So it's something to remember with Your brand is a short term revenue increase can sometimes give you less control over your brand, you know. And what they've done is controlled their brand by not selling even the tickets.
- [09:46]
Camille
Like the cost to get access to the Masters. The tickets 399 have never like haven't changed the price point. It's like the aftermarket where they go for like 10,000, yeah, tons of money. But the point on the Coachella's advisation of the Masters and this is what makes this like a bit. We need the longer form to break this down. You're completely correct that like if the Masters to Coachella are uncomparable in the way of like they're not focused on like selling out, they're not focused on having like these big like advertisers purchasing and like you can't even over brand yourself as a player that's playing in the Masters. However, what you saw this year on social media was a lot of brand activations happening at the Masters in a way that you don't see with other tournaments. For example Malbourne, our friends at Malbourne, they rented a they base, they called it Malbourne Home and it was a test golf Airbnb activation. And effectively they were basically wanting to build golf themed Airbnbs and strategic locations around major Gulf cities. And you could basically stay at the Melbourne home for your like basically your batch parties if you're going to be doing it in like in around Augusta Georgia and basically every brand hosts night parties during the Masters week. So Malbourne decided to work with partners like Nespresso Therabody to activate in the morning. So like the trend was like basically to break down different trends during different mornings. And they had like a red light therapy tray trailer. They had like a full Nespresso cafe built into the 100 year old living room of their sorry made a full Nespresso cafe built into the living room of their hundred year old Augusta home. They had a mellow morning DJ so they were like playing chill vibes while the coffee was being poured and then they basically launched their biggest collection to date going into the Masters. So what you're just seeing is brands like Malbon are doing Coachella style activations at the Masters and putting it on socials, making the Masters more socially relevant. That's what I kind of want to unpack.
- [11:55]
Philip
You know what I think there we were talking about it earlier about Tesla and we may get into it later in terms of Uber, but the type of thinking required to succeed in a crowded space of attention is, is asymmetric or third or second or third order thinking.
- [12:14]
Camille
Yeah.
- [12:14]
Philip
It's not just, let's buy a billboard at the Masters. Like, you actually have to have real creative thinking. And when you tell me about Malbourne getting a house and Airbnb, my brain goes immediately to. It'd be great business to buy an Airbnb by all the top golf courses because, you know, like, as a vertical for the company where you could host golfers, because golfers who. Who travel to the best golf courses have influence on their clubs when they go back to their home clubs. Right. So having Airbnbs that are themed to a brand would be brilliant because the people who are traveling get exposure to the brand, while at the course, you get a nice associative bump from that and they bring the brand back to where they're going. Like, that would be a great way to make an impact in the branding space. Is that what they're doing? Did they buy the house to become an Airbnb or just rent it? Because if our friend over there, I think they should start buying Airbnbs, buy the best golf courses. It's fascinating. And then make the whole house themed as that brand.
- [13:15]
Camille
Well, that's what they're wanting to do. I just don't know if we can share that. That's what they wanted to. Now that I reread his text message.
- [13:23]
Philip
But, you know, the thinking, if I could segue into golf, because when we were in Ireland at Lahinch, one of the cooler courses, we had the coolest caddy ever. And you just think this guy is like, caddy to billionaires, pro athletes, just everything. And he's walking around, his shoes are beat up. And I asked him, I asked him, like, what's up with your shoes, John?
- [13:43]
Camille
What's his name?
- [13:44]
Philip
John asked him, what's up with your shoes? He goes. He goes, I walk 36 holes a day here, six days a week to keep it. To keep my family going. And I'm like, you need new shoes. He goes, these things are expensive. And then we made a couple calls and we're like, brands should realize that the caddy at Lahinch is a beautiful spokesperson for shoes because he's putting the most miles on any golf shoe anywhere at the craziest course. And so they ended up, just from a couple emails from you, they sent him a bunch of free shoes. We won't say the name. And now he's sporting brand new shoes almost monthly while he's at Lahinch, you.
- [14:17]
Camille
Know, like, yeah, I mean, it's like, it's great, organic word of mouth marketing for the brand because like, those are the places that brands aren't thinking. It's like, where is that gorilla placement that you can go? But what was just so interesting about the Masters is how they approached getting content creators to create for the brand really like in a way that they hadn't before. So on socials there was all these influences, influencers that were basically breaking down why the Masters is so iconic. So they were using influencers to tell the story of the Masters. That. Which was broadening the, the relevance, the pool. Just like the overall zeitgeist of the Masters online, which in tune. Sorry. Which in turn made me. When I was watching the Masters on TV with, at my, with my parents, I was like, this is so much cooler. It was already going to be on. But my experience in connecting with the brand and becoming a future golf watcher, you know, as I get older, I now understand the story for the Master. So that's where they're really transforming that like outer circle to inner circle by doubling down on the story.
- [15:26]
Philip
No, they had a bunch of people who had amplified it, who came from the outer circle. Just as an aside, I was thinking, because we were picking up, even this year, we were picking up all of the things that they do. So they don't allow people to bring their own chairs, which you can do at the US Open, like the only chairs are perfect green chairs all over there.
- [15:44]
Camille
And not only can you not bring it, but like once you claim that chair, that chair is yours. So if you're gone for six hours and you come back like no one's sitting in that chair, that chair belongs to you.
- [15:53]
Philip
It's very cool. But I think like small things matter in terms of brand presentations. And it was, it just, it reminded me when we were at a restaurant that kind of put itself out for a price point as high end, but it had paper napkins. Like I just couldn't, you know, like paying attention to the small details in your business contributes to your brand. Like, don't, don't do the cheapest thing if you can afford it.
- [16:13]
Camille
Totally. And in addition to that, don't do the cheapest thing if your brand can afford it. Where are you going?
- [16:20]
Philip
I mean, like, it might make sense to say, have them bring chairs so it won't cost us that much money. Or paper napkins are cheaper than cloth napkins. Right. But there's an ultimate cost to that in terms of what your brand is trying to, to put across.
- [16:37]
Camille
Yes, but I want to Go further.
- [16:39]
Philip
Okay? Go further.
- [16:42]
Camille
What makes the Masters iconic is that no detail is overlooked and no detail is compromised. Like, even the language, like, you can't call. Look at them, a gas. You have to call them a patron. There's even, like, words for, like, the. You can't call it the rough. You have to call it, like, the second cut. Or, like, there's. There's all these, like, there's these rules around ritual. But even to your point, like, think about the. The burgeoning of social media right, over the last 15 years, and the brand not saying, okay, let's just, like, allow people to come in with their phones because we need more eyeballs through socials and them just being strict with, like, no, there's no phones. You can only have cameras. And. And what's so fascinating about that is, like, all this content that was, like, seen on Instagram couldn't have been shot on phone. So people were, like, bringing in cameras, shooting on cameras, doing, like, same day or, like, hourly edits to, like, get it up on Instagram. Because there was just so many brands talking about these moments at the Masters in, like, real time. But, like, you couldn't have your phone to edit on Capcut. So, like, just the amount of additional work, but it's so iconic because, like, where do you find that today?
- [17:52]
Philip
It also made the event more enjoyable because everybody wasn't walking around taking pictures or walking around editing or texting. Right? Everybody was. There was. For the experience. It was.
- [18:02]
Camille
But I don't even. I don't. I. I actually didn't even realize that, to be honest. Like, brands aren't even making compromises, like, telling us because, like, a lot of these influencers that I follow that were there, that weren't, aren't golfers that don't, like, get Campbell, Hunt, Puckett. She's, you know, called Pookie on the Internet. Her and her husband are Jet and Pookie. They're like everyday lifestyle, kind of like comfort creators. They were brought to the Masters to, like, her whole thing is that she, you know, eats an absurd amount of food and is tiny. Apparently she eats this food, but she. Her and her husband are there, like, breaking down the menu items at Augusta. Like, I thought it was done through an iPhone until you were like, no, like, you cannot have phones there. This is not being shot on their iPhone. And, like, no one is even like, hey, you know, we had to go in with the DJI Pocket Pro, and, like, we had to go home and edit this. And, like, it just. It's like, they're just posting.
- [18:57]
Philip
Yeah, we should. It'd be good to compare this to the. The Amazon space trip in terms of branding experience. Like, the difference in terms of cheesiness.
- [19:07]
Camille
And they're not even comparable.
- [19:08]
Philip
Yeah, yeah. But you know, when we hit that.
- [19:09]
Camille
It was even funny, too, when I was. I messaged our friend Halle Ledbetter, who was the morning host at the Masters, to have her on Art of the Brand this week. She's coming on, by the way. She was like, yeah. Like, she's like, honestly, Camille, like, I cannot talk about the Masters. They're like, we. They protect the brand so much. She was like. Even for me to, like, say yes, which I'm saying yes to. She's like, I'm gonna have to message the, like, head person and, like, basically probably provide the transcript. She's like, I already know what I can and can't say because, like, I was on air with them. But, like, they're just so protective around the brand that basically someone like Halle can't come off the Masters and then be interviewed by us and, like, Masters hack by, like, getting all the deets, like, behind the scenes. Like, there's just so much mysteriousness to this brand, which is from a takeaway perspective. If you want your brand to last, you have to be very strict and not appeal to everybody. Like, that is the core takeaway is like, you have to be a brand asshole, because that is what's going to create legacy around your brand.
- [20:10]
Philip
That's a great term. I haven't heard to use it a lot. A brand, and it's something that I've struggled with in my life, is like, I don't want to be an. You know, and so you tend to kind of. People are really good at making you cut corners or. Or do what they want, right? They're like, hey, that's not really necessary. Do you really need to do that? But. But nothing great is built by. By these compromises, right? And I think a brand asshole is very accurate, but there should be a better way to put it, because you have to stay pure to your vision and your brand in order to make it into something exceptional. That's interesting.
- [20:45]
Camille
The reason why brand works is that it actually needs to be derogatory and very to the point, right? Like, if you're not being protective of your brand, if you're. If you're being fleeting with your legacy or with your principles, if you're not doubling down, if you're not focusing, if you're not being strict, your brand won't be great. And that's why you differentiate. Why I differentiate between there's three levels to a brand. When you're a brand, when you're starting out and you're trying to figure out your pieces, it's not very different than if you've been around for 20 years, 15 years, 30 years plus plus and you don't have protection on in and around your brand because when your brand is at different stages, it requires different things. But if you've had your brand for a while and there's things that you do that are like traditional or you want to develop traditional, you need to learn from brands like the Masters, from Trader Joe's, from the four Seasons. Like brands that don't cut corners and that's what makes them iconic and great is because there's an expectation, there's consistency. Like these are the success leaves clues. If you want your brand to be great for 70 years, you can't cut corners on short term profits.
- [21:48]
Philip
I think from business. Having studied all these brands in my own experience coaching companies is you get killed by a thousand cuts from people asking can we just cut this corner? Can we just do this? And if you survive, you learn that every time you cut those corners, corners, you know, it causes a problem. And insisting on brand obsession is what makes the great brand. Right. Because there's a reason why you have brand obsession. It's not just, it's not random. It's because you actually believe in something and so you have to obsess about it. I just wrote down that, you know, I have the laws that I wrote for one of my companies but I'm going to get ChatGPT to develop a questionnaire to ask employees that would see if they resonate with the laws by their answer. Do you know what I mean? Like there's ways to kind of to bring people into your tribe that stay true to your brand.
- [22:41]
Camille
Well, that's the second order of thinking that I'm so glad you got to that needs to come out of these. I think these segments that we talk about is how can you extract what our takeaway is and then reverse engineer a question tied to your brand so that you can develop your own lore, your own legacy around your brand. Whether it's us talking about like the masters as iconic or all the other things we're going to talk about today. That's where you should be leveraging. Chat GPT is those second and third order like out of the box questions directed to your brand is what separates you from the competition, period.
- [23:19]
Philip
Yeah. Otherwise you're just in a price war.
- [23:22]
Camille
Yes. Actually, I was reading this morning 22 laws of immutable marketing. The 22 immutable laws of Marketing, which honestly is an okay book at best. But one of the segments, they talk about how like Burger King, the best, the best placement for Burger Kings is actually across the street from McDonald's. And the best place for like the planet Hollywood was actually across the street from the Hard Rock Hotel. Because wherever what they've, what these bigger, more generic brands have realized is that the consumer that's already primed and ready to spend money at the Hard Rock Hotel is actually the perfect consumer that's going to spend money at Planet Holiday Hollywood. So there's actually more that you can learn from your competitors and their customer than I think, the kind of, the more common language, which is like, develop your own tribe. And there's definitely a place for that. But we're also ignoring, if you have a larger competitor. Right. That that has a larger market share, their customer is probably also your customer. So even to the, to your point of like reverse engineering, what are their laws, what are their legacy, what are their principles? What are their core things that that customer likes and why they're buying from them? What can you learn or take from that to develop to your brand? Because they're. It's warfare.
- [24:35]
Philip
Like, it's marketing is warfare.
- [24:37]
Camille
It's war. All right, so the Chinese factories, let's talk about them. So, so if you haven't seen, there has been a mass number of, effectively the manufacturer in China that's calling out how much the Gucci bag that is made in their factory costs to make. And also that the majority of the products that make the bag are made in China. And then like the last step is like, made in Italy. So they can say that it's made in Italy, but effectively really just calling out the cost of goods and placing into question where luxury is going to go. And I've got so many thoughts on this.
- [25:27]
Philip
To me, it just, it plays on your last comment in the segue that marketing is warfare. Right. And we have international boundaries and people don't seem to. People in the, in this world of marketing and branding seem rather naive about, about how the world works. But this is a perfect example that Chinese companies have been making hundreds of millions off of the U.S. marketplace.
- [25:48]
Camille
Yeah.
- [25:49]
Philip
And then when they're directed that they're going to be held accountable, finally, through tariffs that allow for free fair trading.
- [25:56]
Camille
They start making these TikTok videos.
- [25:58]
Philip
All of a sudden they make that's guerrilla warfare. Like they're essentially attacking. But you know, and the, the enemy just in this tariff thing, in a way, I think people are trying to make it political. The enemy is the corporation that decided to go and have the product made somewhere with slave labor and then package it to you like it's a luxury good. And that's, that's the, that's the collateral damage in this, in this kind of warfare that we're seeing. That's the casualty is going to be, I think these corporate luxury brands that were selling us nonsense at huge prices.
- [26:28]
Camille
It's such a complicated issue though, to unpack. Like on the, on the face of it, you know, the basic problem is, you know, what does this mean for luxury? One to where do these brands go? You know, if the, you know, the curtain is, the Oz curtain is now pulled open and it's a tiny man behind, you know, like it's kind of that moment for luxury. But where it's further complicated is exactly to your point is that we're now in this issue with like tariffs with the Chinese government. And almost every single one of these videos has the almost exact same script. Like it's, it's, it's almost.
- [27:05]
Philip
That was state driven.
- [27:07]
Camille
State driven. Like the Chinese government is like, you're going to with us, we're going to with you. And. But what's really complicated about it is I, I don't, I don't know where this goes because the luxury purse companies, like the big company brands are what drives the copycat marketing. Like the purse industry is a very weird industry because there isn't a surplus of cheap bag brands that are leading or that are, that are strong alternatives to these big brands being gone. Because these huge brands, they're the ones that really have the money in the R&D plus the name to drive the trend, right? Like Bottega. Like they really came for all of them. So if all of them are being called out on like how much the cost of the product is, where does that go? Like, who fills that gap?
- [28:05]
Philip
This is where I want humans to try and be rational. And this is just the opinion of Philip Miller. You're paying for a Bottega bag. But we used to say it was too expensive to have a human make it in America, right? Like, I'm just saying, like the price point that they're paying for these bags, it could have been made by a human in any country, right? But, but it's getting made by a human at a dollar an hour in China and then Getting inflated a thousand percent. So these bags can be made in other places. I think the Chinese are actually shooting themselves in the foot by just exposing this. They think they're going to do some damage to the stock market because I know that they think Westerners are very short, short term focus. So you think we're going to overreact and then just let it go back to normal. The thing is, if we don't overreact and we actually stick to the guns, it could make an economic change. We're like, why would we have it made for a buck an hour there? The only reason they're paying. You're paying $1,000 for a bag that costs 10 bucks to make is because of this logo on it. Once that myth gets destroyed, then you just want a nice leather bag made somewhere else that's a better bag and you can get cheaper, I think. Mm.
- [29:12]
Camille
Fundamentally, I agree that there's space for strong storytelling and like a true return to luxury, which is like quality craftsmanship, not these insane margins that like, that don't exist and don't make sense because ultimately they're, they're founded in basic principles of economics. Right. Like it. It. There is supply and demand. By charging a high price point, you're able to increase demand. However, I do think that the pendulum is going to swing. And to your point, these designer brands who have money and have the ability to pivot are going to go back to storytelling. So I think that these brands can save themselves. If you're right. If they like show that they've removed themselves out of China, they're going somewhere else. The quality of the materials increase being. Because the problem is that the entire bag market is like, it's, it's top down. Right. Like when you. For example, somebody I follow on Instagram the other day was talking about these like, dupes at Target. And the dupes at Target were Bottega. And like, they were, they were. These Target dupes are now entering to market. When that. You call it the armadillo bag that I have. Yeah, that armadillo bag was like big eight, nine years ago. Probably the patent has lapsed. So that Target can come in with a dupe and they're not going to get sued by Bottega from it. And they came in with different colors that never existed. I don't know how that model of like the lower income, like, where, where do they buy? Like, where does this go if the top isn't the. What the inspiration is? So I think that these designer brands are going to have to pivot their storytelling and going back to their story in order to salvage what these Chinese companies are doing. Because ultimately, like the average person that's purchasing these, like the Chanel bags and the Bottega, like, there's a very small percentage of people that has a surplus of these bags. And the people who are buying these bags that are fake are chasing the trends of social media that are being set by people with money that are, that are high. They're high consumers. Right. So like a lot of these women that have, like, you know, these 22 different colors of Chanel bags to match every single outfit, they, they have a lot of money, they have a lot of time, and they're bored, so they go shopping. So if they're, if the people who are setting the trends, who have the most time to go shopping and to curate outfits, where do they go if there isn't other brands to fill the void?
- [31:38]
Philip
Well, that's what real luxury is, is you're, you're not doing the trends like you're, you're doing something else. But I think what the, what this has done is realize that the knockoff bags really aren't that different than the. Then the authentic bags are being made in the same place.
- [31:52]
Camille
And where. It's so complicated. This has never happened before. This is what's so complicated about this.
- [31:57]
Philip
When you take the red pill, the world changes in terms of how you value things.
- [32:01]
Camille
But I feel like we've taken the red. Okay, but this is the point to break down. That's kind of a bit esoteric. We've lived in a world for the last six years where someone can post. Victoria Beckham can post this rare bag by Hermes, by Bottega that they like, restrict how you can access it. She can post an outfit with it. Another high profile person like a Kim Kardashian can post with it within three weeks. Less than that. If you take a screenshot and you upload it onto AliExpress through AI, it can reverse the photo. Yeah, the demand is already there at the factory because the factory is the ones making these other bags, so are able to produce it. And for the same price as a Michael Kors bag, you can get a $12,000 designer bag shipped directly from you from the Chinese factory that to the human eye is undetectable to be able to see the difference. Now, this worked for the brands because on socials, no one is saying that they're buying it fake and aren't laughing at the people that are buying it for full price. So there's this confusion within the market, especially with products like Cartier and et cetera, where gold is gold. If you post a Cartier bracelet that's true gold and true diamonds, but not from the Cartier store. It looks a fabric freaking identical to the ones from the Cartier. So Cartier is not even verifying real purchase anymore because they can't because, like the material is the same and it was only based off of cereals. But like major countries, these brands started printing these purses that the cereals aren't trackable. So we were in this bubble of like, we're not going to pretend this is a real issue, but that like, but basically designer is skyrocketing because the emerging economies are coming into money and they're buying brands because on social media everybody has brands and they felt feel left out. But then now the Chinese companies are coming out and they're like, we already knew this. Like, everybody already knew. It was just like, just like lying about having Botox. Like, everyone's getting Botox, but no one's talking about that. They're all getting Botox. But now the like companies came forward and they're like saying this is how much things cost. But nothing is also really changing because we've all known that you can buy these products on AliExpress. You know what I like, that's like, how do we break this down?
- [34:11]
Philip
I don't know. It's just, it's an interesting dynamic. I look, I want to look at it from a geopolitical perspective, less than the brand perspective, because I think those brands were for the most part, BS Anyhow.
- [34:20]
Camille
They are.
- [34:21]
Philip
Right. And so, but I find that those, those videos that, that are coming off of one script are, are the Chinese. And it's funny that so many liberals are against the tariffs, but they're, they're laughing at the American consumer. Like those videos with the scripts, having done some negotiations with the Chinese, they actually think we're, we're functionally disabled. Yeah, right. They're like, these idiots just buy stuff, throw it out. They don't look at a Century plan. Like we're just kind of stripping income for them while they go more and more in debt and post about our crappy products that get sold to them at $10,000. Like you have to kind of see through the veneer. They're posting these videos and they're laughing at North Americans saying, ha ha, look at you. We make this here. You can buy it here. Now don't buy it from the corporation. And we need to understand as a country or as a society that we have to be responsible for some of our own goods. And I think that's where it's coming from. I'm hoping it's breaking the bubble on brand obsession and feeling that we just need to get everything as cheap as possible. And that's how we become successful as a society or as an empire and realize that there's a lot of illusions and curtains to pull back, as you said, to understand where real value is and what is a real great brand versus a constructed brand.
- [35:42]
Camille
Well, that's where this is just so philosophically complicated is that because of access we were able to break because of digital access and being able to go directly to the manufacturer through like WhatsApp, AliExpress, Dhgate, we were able to break the concept of supply and demand. You were able to access a bag that is priced at $12,000 for $800, which is the same price point as Coach and Michael Kors sell at retail. So you're able to buy at like a secondary price point or third stage price point, the most demand bag. And we all knew it and we all live on social media. But for the first time, this is actually like really like where the manufacturer is now calling it out. So yeah, it's, it's, it's really complicated. I agree with you. I think where this has to go is brands need to realize that there's going to be a time, there's times that moment, you know, like it's coming in. Maybe it's not right now, but maybe it's in the next few years where.
- [36:51]
Philip
I would be buying short options on lvmh.
- [36:54]
Camille
On lvmh, like there's just where does this go? And I, but I, but what's also really fascinating to go back to. I don't know if we talked about this on the podcast, but when we were flying back from Oman, we stopped in Dubai to get our connect connection and this plane from Turkmenistan was on the tarmac and we had to like share a bus with them or we had to go through the connecting terminal with them. And every single woman on this flight from Turkmenistan had like the same copy paste outfit. It was like a Louis Vuitton bag, like Gucci loafers, like Prada branded shirts with like the Loewe tank top. Like it was, it was copy paste. And I realized in that moment that the reason why there's such a fixation on like social media and the Asian consumer is that the Middle east and Asia are be like they're coming into money and they're buying the brands that we don't think are as relevant anymore. So it's complicated because, like, as a North American consumer, they're actually not talking to us anymore. They're talking to a consumer that's at a different point in the luxury buying cycle.
- [38:01]
Philip
I don't think they're buying those products at Intermenistan at those stores. I think they've just embraced the Asian. Yeah. Like, I just think they flow in purely, and then people are just putting on costumes to go out to make it look like there's something that they're not. And I think the trend is be who you are.
- [38:21]
Camille
Yeah, like, that's. We don't know.
- [38:22]
Philip
So. So the. I think the luxury brand trend or the movement is to be who you are. Don't stop pretending to be these fake people on social media. Be who you are and create something spectacular. Like create spectacular things rather than buy fake spectacular things to walk around.
- [38:38]
Camille
Well, that needs to be the trend is that anybody, anybody that has a brand that can lean into, like the premium or luxury, you need to go back to the core principles of, like, showcasing your quality of craftsmanship, like your tradition, your story, how you got here. Like, there's pillars to a luxury brand that are missing at present because luxury has gone fast fashion.
- [38:59]
Philip
That's why our great friend of the podcast, Hannah Dunning, is so inspiring when she's talking about clothing health.
- [39:07]
Camille
Yeah.
- [39:07]
Philip
And if you, if. If your clothes are coming from China, there is no regulatory supervision. You don't know if they're washing them, if there's chemicals, mineral, you know, like poisonous stuff on there. It's just made in a place where they don't give a crap about their own air. And they're just chucking stuff out to come here. And then you're putting it against your skin, which is very absorbent all day long. Like, we need to react, focus, cool aligned.
- [39:29]
Camille
Let's move on to the next one. So we're gonna now do a comparison with the Amazon Blue Origin. I'm setting this up as the one of our first Hot or nots. So do you want to explain what it was and then give me your hot or not breakdown?
- [39:47]
Philip
I didn't. I didn't research tons about it because it was just. It kind of put me off from the beginning. Like, it looked like it was Runway show in space. Like, it just didn't seem deep to me. But apparently Jeff Bezos, his wife, organized a trip to space that was all female, and they got their outfits done and they just Made it into a big social media event that was supposed to create this brand of excellence. And it's getting ripped apart all over the media, all over right now because of how disingenuous it was. And I think it's a nice balance to what the Masters is like compared to, you know, a brand story that didn't, that didn't catch.
- [40:27]
Camille
Well, it doesn't, it's not a brand. No, I think that's the, the ultimate difference here is that there it isn't a brand and there isn't a story.
- [40:35]
Philip
But they're trying to create a brand over the space company that Bezos has that's going up into space. Right. Like those are trying to create this image of this is the future.
- [40:45]
Camille
Well, they tried to create this moment. So it was an 11 minute, $28 million per seat, effectively like PR optical spectacle of women going to space. And it got absolutely ripped apart on the Internet. And honestly, rightfully so because it was just had zero strategy behind it. It was so poorly orchestrated. Whoever did the PR for this should be fired and like disbarred from the, from the college that doesn't exist.
- [41:21]
Philip
I think they went right from the new Snow White into this project in terms of like how, oh my gosh. But it shows you how people in bubbles again, right? Like they thought, I'm sure at every part of this they're like, oh my God, this is the best. Can you, can you believe how amazing we are, how great this looks, how people are going to love it, you know, and then the anger that some of the passengers, I won't call them astronauts because you're not an astronaut if you're just a passenger. The astronauts are the people who fly and are responsible for the safety. You're not a pilot if you go on a plane. But you know, some of them were like upset that they weren't getting more creds and they wanted to call themselves an astronaut for a 12 minute flight. Like it's, I think that's the nonsense is that there wasn't authenticity from what they were claiming to do from what they were doing. Right. And it seemed what my, my daughter yesterday said something I thought was really astute and I didn't even know she was following it. But who is the news lady on CBS Morning? Gail. Right.
- [42:20]
Camille
I've got her full name here. Gail King.
- [42:23]
Philip
Right. And so she's on the, she's on kind of her failing morning show and she's like, I'm just so upset that people are not giving me the credit that I deserve for having done something like that. And my daughter was like, you know, you got a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to space. You didn't pay $28 million to go there. You. You are able to see, like, you aren't really in space, but you're able to see something most people would ever dream of. And you're upset that people aren't giving you attention for it, as opposed to just enjoying the life experience, like, making it about me. It's. It's me culture that's so negative.
- [42:54]
Camille
No, but that's exactly where I'd criticize this entire operation is that they. They really at the heart of a good story is that the customer is the hero. Right? The user that's watching it. And they're supposed to be the guide. And that's exactly to the. To what Sophia was saying is that these patrons that were selected, they didn't act as a guide. They. They made themselves the spotlight. Other.
- [43:25]
Philip
Very well done. Yeah.
- [43:26]
Camille
Other than really the Aisha Bao, you know, like, Aisha Bao did a really good job, but the rest of them, like, why was Katy Perry selected? Like, Katie, Katy Perry is a. Is a pop star who's not doing anything relevant, who hasn't used her platform for social good or for social change. And the video of her going up into space is, like, talking about how she, like, wants to make. Make it glam and, like, how she's not surprised that she was selected. And instead you should use it, like, you should manifest to, like, make things happen. And, like, there's definitely power in manifestation, but there's also in, like, doing the work. And I, I don't think the message for young girls to go into space is like, you know, as long as you are sexualized and you create songs like I Kissed a Girl, you know, anything you want is going to happen. Like, that's not really the message that you should be teaching. And the whole reason why she chosen to go into space is so that she. She could show her daughter.
- [44:27]
Philip
No, she's friends with Bezos's wife.
- [44:29]
Camille
I know, but they're. That's not what they said, you know, like. And that's the. And that's the core problem also.
- [44:34]
Philip
That's. That's not women empowerment. No, right. Like, it's not like four dudes going, like, who cares that it's four women unless the four women are joined by something other than chromosomes, like shared value, shared mission, shared suffering.
- [44:47]
Camille
If you're gonna do women to go to space, 1. Why is the outfit hypersexualized yeah. You know, like, why is it, like, Charlie's angel going to. Going to space?
- [44:56]
Philip
It was like. It was like a comedy. Charlie's Angels. Did you. Did you see? We got to put up the clip of them worshiping the giant phallic symbol and doing. Doing the.
- [45:04]
Camille
Could have. It looked literally like a Monty Python skit of, like, we're all gonna do a rah rah. We're gonna put our hand in. We're gonna cheers, we're gonna thank the big penis that's taking us to space.
- [45:16]
Philip
And they had two days of training, like, how to put on a seat belt. Like what? Like, it's offensive to people who have suffered to achieve something. Like, you know, to pass a military course or to pass the bar or the medical exams or, you know, but these. These people are, like, making it look like. And Gail is there. Oh, my God. People aren't valuing how much I had to go through to be there. And. But then that's what I mean from the brand, when you compare it to the masters. Because Kardashians at the base, she didn't want to go up because she was scared. And Oprah's at the base. It's like, it's attracting celebrity for celebrity's sake. It was repulsive, honestly.
- [45:50]
Camille
No, because it speaks to this larger feeling, you know, like the pitchforks are coming vibe, where we're sick of influencers getting the swag, getting the experience, getting the invitation. When we're past looking at influencers getting the moment for just, like, for effectively an ad for the brand. And even Amanda. Amanda win, like, extremely accomplished and successful individual who has this platform of, like, rawness. Because she had, like, this rape incident. Why is her going to space being about her being raped? Like, why isn't it about her, like, her background being a bio? Like, she's, like, went to fucking Harvard. Like, she's brilliant. She's like, she's still studied space. Like, why are we talking about this aspect? That is, again, it's like, you're there because you're a victim. You're not there because you deserve it.
- [46:45]
Philip
Jeff, if you're listening right now, if you wanted to make this a branding thing for females, I would have started. And we're available. We got some time this year if you need help. I would have made a competition amongst high schools, right? Asking females who aspire to be astronauts to tell stories about how they've changed their communities in such a way that they deserve to go into space. And I would give those seats to young, inspiring females who are doing amazing things in their community and have stories that people would actually care about. Not Katy Perry, you know, having sex with the camera during the whole flight. You could have put five wonderful, inspiring humans who are like building bridges, changing things. Somebody from Ukraine maybe, or I don't know, like anything. Like there's so many ways you could have done that to inspire people or females to search for space. And you just completely blew it because you hired Hollywood type people who are vapid, they have no depth and they have no understanding what the average citizen is going through. And you just blew 200 to $300 million in a PR disaster.
- [47:51]
Camille
Well, and I think why also a big knock to the brand is that Lauren Sanchez isn't respected. And allowing Lauren Sanchez, who's like the wife, like the wife of Jeff Bezos to coordinate and organize when you're talking about being at the cutting edge of science is such a step backwards for what this SpaceX Amazon war kind of needs in that allowing Lauren Sanchez to effectively select her friends and like it. It's just, it's just so bad especially too because there was actually a lot of content on how the, the basically that, that rocket, the blue origin rocket was actually outperformed the SpaceX equivalent to it. Like basically the way that it came back into the atmosphere or the stratosphere is that it was like way less ruined.
- [48:49]
Philip
Yeah.
- [48:49]
Camille
And it just, it completely took away from the innovation and the progress in which this marks for human, for human history. And it frustrates me that we have to. On women when I don't want to be doing that. Like, I don't find it fun to like on scientific progress because you made it about something that it didn't matter and wasn't relevant. Like, why are we making these decisions?
- [49:20]
Philip
No, Oprah's at the bottom. Kardashians at the bottom. Like, it's just a vapid. They're in their own world of, of nonsense. Nothing.
- [49:28]
Camille
Honestly, substance. Oprah and Kim Kardashian would have made more sense than Katy Perry. Like, like, honestly, like what? Katy Perry. Like, like what?
- [49:40]
Philip
Yeah, bad job.
- [49:42]
Camille
And then she's very mid.
- [49:43]
Philip
It's not just hot or not. It's hot. And that was, that was as cold as space. That was like not hot. It was. Is a complete disaster.
- [49:52]
Camille
No thanks. Even Carrie Anne Flynn, the film producer of this changes everything. Former HR exec at LA Socialite. What?
- [49:59]
Philip
Who cares?
- [49:59]
Camille
What is. This changes everything. Have you seen this movie? Have you even heard about this movie?
- [50:04]
Philip
What isn't that the Blake Lively one?
- [50:06]
Camille
No.
- [50:07]
Philip
No.
- [50:07]
Camille
So next Hot or Not segment is the iPhone lawsuit. It is. This is huge. So there's a massive class action lawsuit because of the mismarketing of the iPhone 16. So the entire platform that the iPhone 16 was sold on was based on this artificial intelligence that was going to be rolled out in the new iPhones that doesn't exist and is still not on our phones.
- [50:35]
Philip
It's the reason why I did it because I like ChatGPT and I remember reading, seeing something for them saying, the new iPhone is going to make Siri better. You're going to have AI working for you. I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. Yeah, I totally relied on it. And so when I heard about this class action from you, I'm like, it's brilliant because this is where you're going to get held accountable. That seems like a deliberate misrepresentation. It is to make people well, this.
- [50:58]
Camille
Is what the lawsuit says. So effectively, the. They admitted in March after millions of iPhones were sold, that they knew that they were advertising the, the rollout of artificial intelligence when it wasn't going to be ready. And what's really fascinating is, okay, so first and foremost, if you guys didn't see the ads, basically the what had the way that Apple advertised this was that you were going to be able to say like, hey, Siri, what time? Like track what time my mom is going to be landing.
- [51:38]
Philip
Siri is going, okay, hashtag Siri sucks.
- [51:42]
Camille
Hashtag Siri sucks. One second. So effectively they launched with basically like having like, like being able to cross reference several different things in order to give you the answer. And obviously that doesn't exist.
- [51:59]
Philip
It's no April now. But all it says is when you ask Siri that it goes, can Siri use ChatGPT? Like, it literally asked me on my phone.
- [52:10]
Camille
I actually feel like Siri has, has actually gotten worse from this. Like, I, I try. One, she doesn't even respond half the times when I try to ask her questions. Two, it's like I just, it's never a good enough response.
- [52:21]
Philip
It blows my mind that somebody at Google and Sergey, if you're listening, we're available this year. You should be going all in with every penny you have on hashtag Siri sucks. Right? Yes, they have blue dots, but Siri sucks is something everybody experiences. And The Google Assistant AI Assistant Assistant is 10 times better. That's what you should be selling your phones on.
- [52:44]
Camille
No, but what's actually really interesting is there was another class action Lawsuit. And if you've noticed, but when you now text Androids, it shows red or unread. So it wasn't the blue dots, it was the blue messages. Because blue messages show delivered versus red. Which was like. Which is awesome because when you, when you text an Android, when you have an iPhone, you're like, did it go through? Like, I don't know. But now with Androids, it actually does show red because they were like blocking the intercommunication between phones when that technology existed. But this is like, for me, this further shows the decline of Apple because this kind of launch would never happen under Steve Jobs reign.
- [53:22]
Philip
Oh, God.
- [53:23]
Camille
And it shows you that we're now losing trust as a customer because once again, we got the brand new phone that came out. My brain is primed that, like, this is a business expense. You know, the camera's getting better, the updates are getting better. This is justified by someone that works digitally and the, the programs that they promised didn't get rolled out. It's not any different than the phone that I had before. That was fine. I'm at a $3,000 different perspective position. And there's even shit coming out that the camera isn't as good. Like the iPhone 16 camera is not better than the iPhone 15. In fact, it's like more gray.
- [54:00]
Philip
But in fact, people are now saying that the 13 had the best one.
- [54:02]
Camille
The 13 has the best one because of the way that like, it basically color grades from like the ability for light. But ultimately, like, how crazy is it that we bought a. Millions of people bought a phone based on. Based on a program that doesn't exist?
- [54:18]
Philip
Well, this false advertising. Right? So the class action is gonna settle, actually.
- [54:22]
Camille
And, but. And that's the thing that's so frustrating is we should see if we can join Per. Per phone.
- [54:28]
Philip
I think it'll be more.
- [54:29]
Camille
It's gonna be like, no, that was.
- [54:30]
Philip
Bread that was buying bread. This is buying an expensive computer.
- [54:35]
Camille
Well, anyways, it's crazy. And it also rides on. There's another class action lawsuit that's happening because Siri was recording more conversations than we gave Siri permission to record. So a lot of this, like, privacy movement that Apple has come into is being like, completely ripped apart. Because when you're like having a private conversation with your doctor over a surgery you want, you're then getting advertised for that surgery. Like, it shows you that the phone is listening to you and they're riding on this whole campaign of privacy. Like, this is a complete fall of Apple.
- [55:12]
Philip
I think it could be. And as soon as again available. But like as soon as Tesla comes out with their phone and go and uses the satellite network so they're not beholden to the cellular network. The reason is the cellular network has broadband and, and regulatory frameworks that you have to get permission to use. Right. And I think we've talked about, you know, no phone has a removable battery. Right. It used to be a removable battery because when you remove the battery it can't record you. When your phone is off, it's still listening. So if Tesla was to come out and say look we're going to do satellite end to end encryption, most secure ever and you can remove your battery so you know you're not being listened to. It's an immediate best seller.
- [55:51]
Camille
Well, you have a brilliant point on this in that like there is no Ferrari phone.
- [55:58]
Philip
Yeah.
- [55:58]
Camille
You know, like there's the richest man in the world has the same phone. You know, the iPhone 16 Pro Max, you know, that is the best phone that you can get. And it's really interesting that for something that's truly so important, so personal, so personal, so truly game changing. Especially for businesses that can have like more capital to throw around. Like why there isn't a better phone, more expensive phone.
- [56:23]
Philip
I think it's got something to do with the chips. Like the chips are all done in one spot. So it's very hard to develop a better chip at an individual, like at a luxury scale.
- [56:33]
Camille
Yeah.
- [56:34]
Philip
Right. Because when Apple has an ability to keep doing better chips. But anyhow I think Apple really blew it with that one.
- [56:42]
Camille
Well to me it's just got Elon all over it. It's like this is Elon coded. Like I'm ready for the Tesla phone. You like you nailed. There's got to be a Tesla phone.
- [56:50]
Philip
Coming like a satellite. So I'm not.
- [56:52]
Camille
It's got all the other pieces.
- [56:54]
Philip
Yeah.
- [56:54]
Camille
You know, like and also too like not for nothing like laptop. You know, like I feel like laptops could also be improved. Like I want. That's like I would love to be able to remove the keyboard so that it like could also double as like as an iPad, but it not be like I find that it doesn't quite exist. Like I'd love for like the U UI UX of like a Mac. Like I love that that we have iPads and laptops. The thing that I hate is that the iPad has like is more like a mobile phone and the keyboard is not as good as my laptop keyboard, but I do like that it's touchscreen. Like why isn't MacBooks have touchscreen when they have it for iPads? Yeah, like I'd be doing that over lying about artificial intelligence.
- [57:34]
Philip
Good call.
- [57:35]
Camille
All right, moving on.
- [57:36]
Philip
We're available.
- [57:36]
Camille
So next is every major CEO for these huge tech companies. We are available this year.
- [57:46]
Philip
We gotta go to the all in summit again this year.
- [57:48]
Camille
Yes. And we should like cover that live. Yeah, that's a good point actually is. Yeah. I'm taking out of that. Next is I want to move into AI.
- [58:05]
Philip
Okay.
- [58:06]
Camille
Because you had a really good thought this past week that I wanted to dig into. May have been a high thought.
- [58:14]
Philip
Shall I start?
- [58:15]
Camille
Yeah.
- [58:17]
Philip
It's just we were talking about using these avatars and how it's hard to distinguish who's real and who's not. Like YouTube, all of these shorts now, like a lot of them have avatars and some people can't tell the difference. And I was trying to think a couple years out, like we're not going to be able to know on a screen if we're talking to a human or an AI avatar. Yeah, we're not going to be able to know. Right. And so yes, it's good to be able to know how to do the screens, but I think, I think as we're seeing a return to experience, as we saw in the masters, I think there's going to be a return to in person meetings because those are the only meetings you can 100 be sure are real.
- [58:54]
Camille
Yeah.
- [58:54]
Philip
Right. And so the skills of socializing, meeting, selling in person and presenting in person, I think they're going to be more valuable the next two to three years. So although you still have to have amazing social media strategy, you need to start doubling down on in person personal experience.
- [59:11]
Camille
Well, this is what, what I think that to go back to a more esoteric conversation, this conversation that we were having was interesting because it's also riding on a point where like I've been noticing the last few weeks on my Explore page, way more AI enhanced content. So what's fascinating is like for the general masses, they're actually the majority of the content they're receiving on Facebook is actually not real. Like it's AI generated and I know that that's existed, but because I, you know, insert annoying statement, you know, whether it's like, you know, I, I've got a better algorithm or I'm searching better things or I'm following, you know, more established thought leaders or creators, my feeds haven't been predominantly AI and that is starting to change. And what's interesting about what you're saying is, when I think about competitors in entering into the space, where will they outsell me? You know, and like they can outsell on like products or like on PDFs or on inserts. But I also think as listeners and as like users on the Internet, where does that go? Like, if it's all just only AI based information, do we want to buy information that we could probably also access through like prompt based searches? Because that's what's complicated about this is like if the way to compete with us is to not be able to sell in person. Because think about it like when a consumer, when a listener reaches out and wants to work with our agency, there's like really a person there that they can book a call with and they can like go through the process. Like, what would that look like in an AI world? Like, why would you want to pay for like AI coaching if there's going to be an AI model that's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, where does this go?
- [60:57]
Philip
Because AI coaching could be great, but there are people who want human experiences. I almost think that like Zoom or some of these platforms should have a way of verifying this is a human. Like there should. I think what we're going to see, this is another interesting trend that I think might come up is human verification. Right. So that if I can go on a digital platform to meet somebody, it can come up with like a blue check that says our cameras have identified that this is a human. Not kind of an uploaded avatar.
- [61:23]
Camille
But. But to your point, like, I've totally done ChatGPT therapy. Yeah, great. Highly recommend. If you're stuck on something just like Autonomously, talk to ChatGPT for an hour and just like work through it. However, to your point, ChatGPT is like highly manipulable. So like you have to like make sure that you're not just getting exactly what you're looking for, because that's not particularly helpful. However, my point is that if paid AI exists and you can access paid AI, like I can ask AI to help me build a funnel, you know, specific to my business, to my followers, to all of these things it can analyze. Why would I pay for a funnel from an AI page where all of the, the information is AI based? Do you know what I'm like, if I'm already paying for a paid AI, right?
- [62:11]
Philip
You could, yeah. Essentially all you're paying for is the same information you could access being masqueraded in a human avatar that's not real.
- [62:18]
Camille
Yes, right.
- [62:19]
Philip
Which you don't really need. So it's that personal. It's that personal ability to, to coach that's more important.
- [62:25]
Camille
And the seed that we want to plant for this is if AI is coming or if AI is here. AI is here. And if the ability to produce content through AI avatars is becoming better and better by the day, how can you implement something that AI can't take from you? Because there's going to be a lot of humans that don't want to purchase one pagers or things produced by AI. There's going to be a pendulum swing of that exists that's a part of our lives that's there. That's great. But like how can I interact with a human?
- [63:05]
Philip
Yeah. So I think you see an ebb and flow in markets. Right. People have doubled down on a lot of digital media, but that. Will that digital media be replaced by AI avatars or. I think where we go back to is develop a personal brand. Brand. If you own or founded your business or your CEO or you're a professional lawyer, doctor, you have to develop a personal brand so people can get to know the person. Because that is going to be the highest value thing in the future market is a personal brand, not an AI brand.
- [63:39]
Camille
Nailed it. Okay, right. Before we get to hotter not, I got one more thing that I want to squeeze in.
- [63:44]
Philip
Okay, let's go.
- [63:45]
Camille
You got the cyber truck?
- [63:47]
Philip
Yes, I did.
- [63:48]
Camille
And it's been such a fascinating human study of how a car on the road truly has a brand. And it's people love it or people hate it to a point where we will be driving and you will be getting multiple middle fingers because of the car you're driving and what it represents. And it's been a fascinating human case study to me because we have people who honking and cheering and like showing you alignment with what the car represents or being derogatory, mean, etc, calling you fascist for what the car represents. And I want to talk about the cybertruck as a brand.
- [64:30]
Philip
It made me think back a little bit when you're describing, when we were talking about the masters. The one thing that's kept the masters so good is they don't give a crap about pleasing everybody.
- [64:40]
Camille
Yeah, right.
- [64:42]
Philip
And we said this before, if you try to please everybody, you please nobody. You have no brand. If you're trying to please everybody other than being a no name generic brand. And I was an early adopter of Tesla because I admire what Elon did and I wanted to have an electric car. I've always, I was part of the Green Party, the cybertruck. To me, I actually went and got the cyber truck almost because I knew it would piss off people who are not high achievers. You know, it in my mind, right, Because I just double down on my brand. Like, I like merit, I like winning. I like things that push boundaries. And so, you know, to me, you're like, I'm. I get joy from the people coming and giving me the finger on the road. Like, it just.
- [65:23]
Camille
It literally lives for it. It's so annoying because, like, when I see it and he doesn't. Like, I don't tell him because I'm like, he just. We're not. We're not. This is not happening right now.
- [65:32]
Philip
But the kids love it.
- [65:33]
Camille
The kids love it. I mean, like, oh, my God. Young boys, 12 and under. Holy shit. I mean, like, it's literally. You're like Santa Claus driving through the area. But what's really interesting is that you've been driving a Tesla since, like 20. 20. 18. 2018. And you just transitioned from the X with the gull wings to a cybertruck. And the difference between driving a Tesla before and being, like, blended into society versus, like, driving a cybertruck, same brand.
- [66:02]
Philip
Tesla, its design is somewhat different. Like, it does look like a monstrosity on first look. Like it doesn't hide.
- [66:09]
Camille
No, it doesn't.
- [66:10]
Philip
So it does. It does scream to me.
- [66:11]
Camille
It's interesting, though, that, like, Tesla drivers can be on the road and aren't being given the middle finger. But, like, the cybertruck is like a what, like, you represent appraising of Elon. Like, that's what's really fascinating to me.
- [66:22]
Philip
Yeah. No, it just shows that humans are stupid. Right. Because the Model Y is the most popular car in the U.S. like, everybody's driving. There's more Model Y's right now than anything. But because I bought a Cybertruck, which was a new model, but in no way is it tied to anything political. There's nothing about it that's political. But people are now attacking it. They're attacking a cybertruck because it represents. It's interesting now I think of it. It represents a change. And so kind of what. What they're doing in the States right now is they're changing kind of the world order in terms of challenging established bureaucratic institutions of power. And so they're unsettling it. And change makes people upset. And the cybertruck is change in the automobile market because it doesn't look like anything else. Right. So I think that Might be that element is. It represents a change and people are resisting it.
- [67:09]
Camille
Well, what's also really, what's been interesting for me because I had to drive it into Montreal and I was nervous because I was already. This isn't mine, you know, like, wasn't driving it because I mean, like, you don't like, it's a move. Yeah. Like, and it's not. It wasn't a move that I made. But I'm driving the car. However, it was truly the best drive of my life. Like, I ended up like, loving it. I love like coming out of it. I love like, even I had to stop to do a few pit stops to like, see clients and stuff. And like, even like the way that they're like, you're cool. Like, this is cool. I ended up really loving it and, and I wanted to touch on, just to make an interesting takeaway because we always want you to have learnings from this podcast is the reason why it drives so well. So if you don't know, it's got full autonomous driving. So if you type in the address for where you're going, you literally do not drive there. So before Tesla's had like amazing like highway auto drive. Now it's like on side roads, like any amount of trips you. The. The car will drive itself, which is new.
- [68:11]
Philip
It's. It's always had. Well, it's had that ability. It's been restricted by guidelines, but until it's been able to be proven. But they're, they're launching the best versions.
- [68:19]
Camille
Of it in the new Tesla's and it's amazing. But the reason why it's so interesting is a few years ago we were in Arizona and we, we realized that every single one of the cars that were picking us up were always Tesla.
- [68:31]
Philip
For the Ubers.
- [68:31]
Camille
For the Ubers.
- [68:32]
Philip
Yeah.
- [68:32]
Camille
And we ended up asking some of the Ubers like six or seven Ubers in and they're like, yeah, actually they. Tesla has done this incentive with us where it effectively costs us nothing to drive Ubers if we use a Tesla because, like, they include charging and they basically add access to the car. And what Tesla was doing is across states. California, Arizona, I think Florida, among. Among others.
- [68:56]
Philip
All over the world.
- [68:57]
Camille
All over the. Yeah.
- [68:58]
Philip
Programs for. Even in Canada, they had programs for all Tesla Uber drivers that they were.
- [69:02]
Camille
Taking all of this data before.
- [69:04]
Philip
Yeah, that's what I want. Before we say it for listeners, think about, we talk about second and third order thinking. Think about why that's brilliant and why somebody like Elon is maybe the type of person you want solving problems, right? Because you're like, why would he be giving away Teslas at a loss or at cost? Right. But now you can finish your point. I just, I thought I would ask them to think about why that would work.
- [69:27]
Camille
Because they were able to generate so much data that they've now created based on probably trillions of data points. Not even billions. Like T's not B's of real live driver experience to train the artificial intelligence to be the safest car on the road. Because when I talk tell people that this, these cars drive themselves. Like, that's horrifying. Like, no, no, no, no. Here's what they did. And in order to get to like the best driving experience, they took all of these data so that the car is a better driver than me. Like it, it actually is a better driver. And we've had this proven. We were dropping off my grandmother. God bless my 9 year old grandmother that was in the cybertruck who texted me today. She's like, love the truck. And she. We picked up my 9 year old grandmother and Philip's like in the back, he's being, he was being a passenger princess because he wanted my grandmother to be in the front seat. And we went to go turn onto this road where there was like construction and there was like basically like big cement blocks and there was these like signs and he's like, camille, like take over. I'm worried about how the car is going to take this turn and because the way that the cybertruck drives it has like such a crazy turning radius, turning access that it actually makes me more nervous because it turns way more accurately than my regular suv, like my regular car. So I was actually more worried to take over the steering, steering because it. There's a higher chance that I'm actually gonna overturn than like underturn into the cement. This truck took the turn perfectly. There was like kids on a bike, like not stopping safely. The car stopped safely. It Pre red like 20 meters ahead that the kids were standing there like slowed down. It like didn't drive because it wasn't sure if the kids were gonna walk or not. And like the dad like waved it by because the kids wanted to see the car drove by. So like I had to like help the car move because the car was not going to move while the kids were there. It like there was construction signs saying that like a stop sign was coming up and like you were like, be prepared because the car might not stop because there was so many like red things that looked like stop signs through autonomous, like brain. It had a brain. Like it had a brain. My grandmother was blown away because at 90s years old, like, think about how much tech she's seen in her lifetime to like have this truck drive her to the restaurant.
- [71:47]
Philip
But the thinking, the thing I like that we want to bring to businesses is like, what is it that you're trying, you're ultimately trying to sell and what has the most value? So what Elon realized, or his team is that the software system that allows for autonomous driving is a trillion dollar product. So they were willing to sell model Y's at a reduced rate to allow other people to do the work. Yeah, so they had hundreds of thousands of people driving 12 hours a day with all of the sensors uploading the data. Who can compete with that?
- [72:19]
Camille
Nobody.
- [72:20]
Philip
Right? You have to think, you have to think like that in your own business.
- [72:23]
Camille
And it's also further to like stop judging people for driving cybertrucks. It's the, it's a better car. And it's been a big change for me because like, again, I'm not someone that like wants to be particularly political. But it's a better car, it's a better experience.
- [72:37]
Philip
No, no, there's, there's a movement to tear down people who do great things.
- [72:41]
Camille
True that.
- [72:41]
Philip
Right?
- [72:42]
Camille
True that. All right, so we've made it to Hot or Not. We've kept you guys for a long time. Let us, let's go move through Hot or Not. So first, Hot or Not, Heinz ketchup did these like cap grills that you can put on that are basically like perforated as a way to like perfectly tear your condiments. And it was like a whole ad campaign that they did of like different people wearing these.
- [73:08]
Philip
Is it true or is it fake?
- [73:11]
Camille
I mean, it's fake. Cuz that's what they have to be made. Customized to your teeth.
- [73:14]
Philip
Yeah.
- [73:14]
Camille
So it's like a fake campaign.
- [73:16]
Philip
But, but so may I say why? I think a lot of them are often kind of both a little bit. But I would say in the end for me that would be a not, although it's hot, because it's kind of clever. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, oh, look at this. Like I, I find like a lot of stuff is like, hey, we're going to be clever and make something that, that looks. But to me that reinforces how bad those packages are in terms of opening them. You know, like if you have to put something customized onto your teeth to rip it open for God's sakes, just put a little bit more effort into designing packages that don't require special implements to be plastered onto your teeth to open them.
- [73:56]
Camille
Like, there's going to be a lot of you listening to this that, like, just did, like, all hail, fill up for that. Like, but. Okay, but here's. Here's my two cents on it. Love the way that your brain is thinking. Need to. Need to praise that. However, I don't think that those packages are actually particularly difficult to open. I think the level of difficulty is relevant to the fact that, like, people have them thrown into their bags. So, like, having ketchup explode in your bag needs to be, like, slightly harder to open. Like, not impossible to open. Like, I don't find this is, like, childproof blister packs where I'm like, I am not a child and I can't open this difficulty level. So I think that this is more like. It's a. It's a cheeky, like, enhancement, because that's the. That's the format. You open up it. You open it up with. And I don't find that they're that hard to open in the ketchup packs.
- [74:46]
Philip
But do you buy those packs? Like, to me, those packs are always given to me for free, so I don't understand.
- [74:52]
Camille
It's just. It's more having a Heinz moment. You know what I mean? Like, you're right. Like, those are free packages. Like, you don't. You don't have those at home. But it's more like this is breaking through to keep Heinz top of mind. Yeah, I think it's hot. I think it's hot because I think that it's. It, to me, it. It made me think in a simple way. So sometimes when ads make you think, it's like, it takes too many levels to get there.
- [75:16]
Philip
But. But as a consumer, I never choose which pack because they're already there. From the. From the restaurant. Yeah, like, and they're not asking my opinion. Right. So, like, is it speaking to its audience? Which is, like, to me, I would be focusing on not having so many get thrown away. I think people take handfuls of them. And often I use, like, people. Like, I've seen my kids take a handful and use one out of five, and so they're throwing 80 away. There's gotta, you know, anyhow, we disagree. I think. I think it's cool, it's novel, but I think it's missing the strategic angle.
- [75:51]
Camille
Okay, guys, let me know what you think about this. So this is the next one. This Is On Running. So On Running did a ad starring Zendaya for their release Zone. And effectively it's kind of crazy that this launched the same week as the Blue Origin stuff because, like, the background is very blue and it's very like spinning space focused. And she basically runs into this, like, formation. And that's the ad.
- [76:18]
Philip
Who's Zendaya?
- [76:19]
Camille
Zendaya is like a. She's kind of like the token. She was the token, kind of like mixed actress, very talented actress, but kind of initially was like in, like, was in a lot of like younger TV shows. She's now become kind of one of the biggest actresses. She's kind of like a bit like.
- [76:38]
Philip
It looks like they're trying to do the. The monster, the glasses thing.
- [76:44]
Camille
Oh, gentle monster.
- [76:45]
Philip
Yeah, it's got that kind of vibe of we're doing something future. What. What is this? Selling shoes.
- [76:52]
Camille
Okay, I know you wouldn't know. Yeah, it's Zone Dreamers is the running shoe. I think it's not. I think it's a knot one. I don't know why On Cloud is partnered with Zendaya. Like, to me it's not as she's not known for being like big into fitness. She's kind of a high fashion, like actress. She's known for having kind of out there fashion. So being with more of a generic shoe wear brand, to me doesn't seem aligned. Also On Cloud is a European sneaker wears and Sendai is very much an American actress. Like, there's none of that, like, cultural feel to it. That a lot. I don't feel like there's strong brand alignment. The ad to me is a very well done TV commercial that doesn't speak to what the product is like. It's not simple.
- [77:34]
Philip
No, it doesn't make me understand On Cloud, like the, the flotation, like on Cloud would have been good to be on the space flight. You know, they should have sponsored that with the shoes or something. But because it did, they are very comfortable shoes.
- [77:48]
Camille
But it's a no for me. Also on Cloud and space.
- [77:51]
Philip
Clouds aren't in space, but you're on the clouds. So you're above the clouds, which is where space is.
- [77:56]
Camille
No, you're on cloud. You're on clouds.
- [77:58]
Philip
Oh, you're on the clouds there. Okay. You're not above the clouds. True.
- [78:01]
Camille
It's a. It's a knot.
- [78:02]
Philip
Okay, so that's high production cost, Good design.
- [78:07]
Camille
Cash barbecue cash BBQ. All right, here's the next one. So Roy McElroy, Nike commercial. And it's Effectively at the dry cleaners, the. They stop the dry cleaner like rotator, and it's the master's iconic green jacket. Or it's inside of a dry cleaning bag and then across it says McElroy with a sticker that says Sunday pickup. And the ad says, this was always waiting for you, period. And then it goes to a Nike logo. Hot or not.
- [78:48]
Philip
This was always waiting for you. I, I like that more than the dry cleaning thing in that. I think what Nike, when it was aspirational is like you have the potential if you do the work and will be your. You will accompany you on the journey to getting there. Right. Like, to me, that's what Nike, when it, when it was at its best is that they weren't the hero. They, they accompanied the hero on their journey to getting the jacket or the ring.
- [79:17]
Camille
Yeah.
- [79:18]
Philip
So I like that at the end, the dry cleaning thing, to me, I think interesting, you know, and it doesn't really resonate with me. I think it could have been done better, but I don't understand the dry cleaning relevance to it. But because Rory has so many emotional stories to tell, like the way that he, when he finished for anybody, even people who aren't McElroy fans, they teared up because they saw how much it meant to him to win it.
- [79:42]
Camille
Yeah. I mean, they had a square and slam.
- [79:44]
Philip
Yeah. But that, that tournament is so hard to win that particular one. And so he. There was a really emotional storytelling there. And I don't find that kind of a dry cleaner spinning captures the gravitas of what it meant to him.
- [79:57]
Camille
I agree with you. But where I don't think that it's fair is that this creative was done prior to the win. So this is like, this shows because McElroy was a Nike athlete. Like, he was wearing Nike all four days. So this was done in preparation where, like, it wouldn't have been aired if he didn't win.
- [80:17]
Philip
Yeah, yeah, I got that.
- [80:18]
Camille
So to me, I think it's the reason why I like it is that when I first saw it, the ad is captivating enough that you don't really know what's going to happen. And then to me, it's kind of like shocking that they had the creative at this level done that quick for the win.
- [80:35]
Philip
It may have been done beforehand.
- [80:37]
Camille
Yeah, of course.
- [80:38]
Philip
Well, because he, like, he was the lead, he was the favorite to win. But if I was gonna tell the story, McElroy as a boy was really cute when he was like on talk shows talking about it. Right. Like his first time in the Masters. But maybe he wasn't, I don't know, maybe he wasn't sponsored by Nike back then. But you know what I mean? You might want to kind of. I would like to captured his journey and then, you know, he got here with Nike.
- [81:01]
Camille
Yeah.
- [81:01]
Philip
You know what I mean? Like, because you could have pre done that as well. I just. To me this is a, this is clever again. But it's kind of a cheap way to pre do.
- [81:09]
Camille
But I don't think it's a knot. Yeah.
- [81:12]
Philip
Because it's better than most.
- [81:13]
Camille
It's good, you know, it's good. And I think that that's where it's hard. Yeah. But that's also where it's hard from our position because we can always find ways to make things better.
- [81:22]
Philip
But that could have been way better.
- [81:24]
Camille
I think it's good. I think it's hot.
- [81:26]
Philip
No, it could have been way better for the moment of what that representation did at the Masters wearing their stuff. That's again, it's, it's not high level thinking. Like it's novel. It's agency.
- [81:38]
Camille
It's agency thinking. Like I, I hear your point.
- [81:41]
Philip
Well, I'm not going to give it a hot unless it's at like the.
- [81:44]
Camille
Level that we expect spectrum, you know, like it's binary options. I think it's definitely not.
- [81:50]
Philip
Okay, let's not talk about spectrums.
- [81:51]
Camille
Okay, next is. This is an Easter themed ad. It's by Walkers and it was launched ahead of Easter and it's effectively an Easter egg shaped chip. And the tagline is for when you've had enough of chocolate.
- [82:09]
Philip
I imagine they must be an old company that kind of owns that red and yellow because it looks like a McDonald's.
- [82:17]
Camille
It looks like Lay's. It's almost the exact same logo as Lays. So Walker's has to be older.
- [82:21]
Philip
And the red and yellow though, it just looks, you know, to me, it's okay, a little meh about it.
- [82:29]
Camille
I liked it. I'm gonna give it a hot because I liked how simple it was and how effective it was.
- [82:33]
Philip
That would get sales because it'll tell people. I guess I would give it a hot because that if the purpose of that is to get sales in the quarter, it reminds people that not everybody loves chocolate and that there's too much sweet in Easter and that we're your staple to get your salt snack and we've made it into a thing. So it's actually at a simple level. You're right that that's a hot because it executes.
- [82:54]
Camille
And I think compared to like the ads, like Zendaya's ad, there's like, there's such a trend to like this over complication, over production and.
- [83:01]
Philip
Well said.
- [83:01]
Camille
To execute so well. Simply. I don't think that they should just get sit on on because it was not.
- [83:06]
Philip
No, but that's good.
- [83:07]
Camille
You came, you came through. You came through. I'm gonna give that a hot. Okay, so that wraps up the hot or not. So the last section here that I want to cover is Rare Beauty and how they're leveraging Substack to develop a brand community. And I think it's worth touching on because this isn't being done. Let me redescript my little section here on it. All right, so the next section I want to talk about is Rare Beauty. So it's the beauty brand owned by subset as by Selena Gomez and how they're using substack to build a community online. And I think this is a very untapped trend that you should be considering for your brand because Substack is a fantastic place to build a community. So effectively Rare Beauty is a beauty brand owned by Selena Gomez and it sold in Sephora, etc. And what they've recently launched is a substack where they're sharing the behind the scenes of their beauty products. And it's effectively kind of like an autonomous narrator, like a kind of a Gossip Girl that's covering how products are made. It's like building a community. It's just basically taking a ton of different angles, but it's very like humanized and real. So like one of the substacks is like going into a meeting but want to ask your question on these thoughts. So it's like really kind of building in that community and I think it's a really smart idea because Rare Beauty is getting attention for it because no other brands are doing this right now.
- [84:40]
Philip
I think people want to observe like I, I think of those cameras that would watch an eagle's nest and how many people would watch it. Yeah, right. Like why? Because they just want to see what's happening in real life somewhere. That's interesting. And so if you're doing something in your business, it's interesting having like some real life observations of what's happening I think does bring the tribe in.
- [85:00]
Camille
Well, the reason why I like it is like Instagram tried to po. Tried to push these broadcasting channels and it was very like one sided, like it was very kind of like I'm speaking at you opposed to like bringing you into a tribe. And what Substack is doing very well is it's, it's marrying kind of Twitter, old school Tumblr and like Instagram, slash Pinterest. And it's becoming, kind of becoming this site for like, thought leadership and to really build a community and a tribe. And what's cool about Substack is you can make it free or you can charge so that people see like a different level of like, information. But brands aren't using this enough. And the core, especially with this whole thing with China, like, if you don't have a brand, if you're only a product, you're not going to last. And by leveraging things like tools like substack, things that aren't being used by brands, but turning it into like a channel where your brand can build a community is a really smart way to establish relevance. But what you can't do is you can't sell. So what Rare isn't doing like rare beauty isn't selling through the substack. They're making it like, relevant and interesting for people to show up.
- [86:08]
Philip
Yeah, it's good. Highly recommended and not that expensive to start.
- [86:11]
Camille
No, I mean, we both are using substacks and I'm loving it. And we're using them more as like, kind of like really as like secondary blogs. But even what I'm learning for Rare, I feel like there's space for us to enhance, even the way that we're using Substack because it shows you that people are wanting to. They want to learn more than they just want to consume. And I think social media has really become this like, barf of like buy, buy, buy, buy a post. Like deep thinking and like actually providing value for your community.
- [86:40]
Philip
Whatever your product or offering is, anytime you can create a description, discussion, or interest in it. Like, I always think of coffee shops when we're having these discussions for some reasons. But if you had a law like you, you could use Substack to say, you know, what are. You could even ask your customers to talk about issues that are relevant, that is coffee shop talk. Like, there's just lots of things you can do to make people get engaged with your product or offering.
- [87:03]
Camille
Yeah, nailed it.
- [87:06]
Philip
Hua. You know what that means?
- [87:08]
Camille
What does hua mean?
- [87:08]
Philip
Whoa. Hua is a military term. I learned it when I worked with the Marines. You know, I'm sure it's used in other units as well. But it stands for heard, understood, acknowledged.
- [87:17]
Camille
Yeah, I knew that.
- [87:18]
Philip
So you go hua, Master Chief means I'm doing what I'm told. You know we're good to go. We got the mission down, so we nailed it today. Good job.
- [87:25]
Camille
Hooah right up. See you next week, Famous.