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The Art of the Brand
Guest 11: Noelle Crooks: Reinventing Yourself & Building a Modern Renaissance Brand
00:49:33
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the art of the brand.
- [00:02]
B
So excited.
- [00:03]
A
Today's a really different episode. I'm excited to talk about personal branding and what it means to expand your personal brand with the ultimate girls girl. So welcome Noelle.
- [00:16]
B
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
- [00:19]
A
Give me the 411. Who is Noelle Crooks?
- [00:22]
B
Okay. Noelle Crooks. I'm an author. I'm a creator, an entrepreneur. I kind of always like to just describe myself though, like the modern renaissance woman I've always known. I've wanted to be multi hyphenated and so I kind of like to do a little bit of everything. And as you said, I also identify as the ultimate girls girl.
- [00:41]
A
Cool. And so you, you're coming off of being the author. Talk about that journey.
- [00:49]
B
Yeah, it's a crazy journey. So I always knew I wanted to be an author, but I kind of imagined me being an author when I was older, White hair, like in the woods somewhere, writing some kind of non fict book recalling this fabulous life that I had. But lo and behold, during COVID I was watching a lot of Netflix and I sort of thought, like, I'm just gonna get really fat and stupid sitting here watching 700 Hours of Netflix. And so I decided to work on a fun little project. I'm very ambitious. And so I just started to write a little story on my old MacBook Air. And then one thing kind of led to another. I decided like, okay, I'm actually think this story is good. I'm gonna kind of do all the efforts to try to get it published and everything like that. And now here we are, four years later, it's published, it's international hardcover, paperback, and it's been just an incredible journey.
- [01:44]
A
That's awesome. There's. There's so much more to you than on just the book side. But I, I do think a lot of you listening are probably interested in the book journey. So beginning to end. How long did it take to get the book from writing it in Covid to out in the shelves?
- [02:00]
B
Yeah. So from idea to bookshelf, it took around three years.
- [02:04]
A
Wow.
- [02:04]
B
Yeah. Which a lot of people actually don't realize is very fast for the publishing world. Like this was an expedited type of process for me, but three years also. It just goes by fast, especially with COVID world and stuff like that.
- [02:17]
A
Totally. And you've got a really interesting story. So your book is called under the Influence. Yeah. And you've had multiple moments in your life being around people of influence.
- [02:31]
B
Yeah.
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A
And I think that's A really interesting segue to what you're doing now.
- [02:36]
B
Yeah.
- [02:37]
A
Do you want to, in your own words, maybe bridge kind of that gap and bring it all together into the personal brand piece?
- [02:42]
B
Yeah. So I spent a lot of years working in marketing, and I've worked both on the brand side of sort of, like, influencer world. I've also worked for influencers. And the book is. A lot of it is inspired by a melting pot of my experiences. Friends, family, co workers, things like that. But at the end of the day, the story is about kind of what it's like to be under the influence of power and greed and being in a toxic workplace. And for me, I kind of view that as something that I can really relate to. I feel like in my life, I have spent a lot of time being in environments that were either, like, not correct for me or places where I sort of felt like I want to, you know, be doing something different, essentially. And so that's a lot of what my book is. It's the message of it is very much about being able to kind of trust your gut feeling when you feel like something isn't right. And for me, what that looks like was being in places where I don't feel necessarily empowered, I don't necessarily feel supported, and, like, it's a good place for me to grow. And so now so much of my mission is about creating spaces and environments where women specifically, can connect. They can come together, build community, network, and essentially just support one another.
- [04:09]
A
You literally took the words out of my mouth because I was like, I feel like there's been so much growth in your journey that's led to here. Even in the three years of writing your book and it becoming published and doing really well. What does your personal growth look like?
- [04:24]
B
Yeah, it's basically, I feel like a new person. It's funny to be on this podcast because I always say I've rebranded myself because I really feel like my journey, especially the past, like, three to four years, has been crazy. I personally have gone through a lot of just, like, introspective thinking about, like, how I want to show up to the world, and not even necessarily in these, like, huge philosophical ways of, like, what's my purpose in life? But even small things like wearing hair extensions and, like, dyeing my hair certain colors and things that just, you know, at the end of the day, it's like how you're kind of presenting yourself. And so I've kind of gone through this journey of really trying to get comfortable with, like, who I am and I think it's hard, especially when you're a woman. You're a woman in a world of media and social media and influencers and kind of all of these different things that are telling you you need to be a certain way, look a certain way. It's challenging. And that those were things that I really struggled with in my 20s. And so now I'm in my 30s. I always say it's the best decade, and I feel like at this moment in time, I'm the best version of myself. I really feel happy and settled about who I am. And a lot of that has to do with just sort of these, like, trials and tribulations I had gone through.
- [05:47]
A
Yeah. I feel like your, your point on, like, becoming unhot. Like, I want you to touch on that, because I think for a lot of women listening to this that are, like, in their 30s, like, understanding that there's, there's an evolution of beauty.
- [06:01]
B
Yes.
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A
And I, I, I want you to touch on that.
- [06:03]
B
Yeah. So I make TikTok videos, and I talk about how I intentionally wanted to be less hot to become more beautiful. And it's kind of funny because people are like, what does that even mean? So to me, what it looked like was I was feeling a lot of pressure, both from the outside but also just, you know, as a woman, you're, like, putting your own pressure on yourself to kind of look a certain way and to be, like, hot and have longer hair. And honestly, this is so embarrassing, but, like, blonde hair, and I'd wear, like, tight clothes and stuff like that, a bunch of makeup, but I was doing all of that pretty, like, consciously knowing that that's not who I am on the inside. Like, I'm, I'm a sweater girly. I'm like, someone who just doesn't go out wearing, like, sexy outfits. And so for me, I was really projecting, I think. And so I now talk about being less hot to be more beautiful, which was, I decided, like, what actually makes me, like, nobody else. Not my partner, not my best friend, not the Internet, like, what makes me feel beautiful? And let's just focus on that. And so I did a lot of things. Like, I went on Pinterest, and I started to just be, like, I'm not going to be California coastal or a coastal gram or any of these things. Like, what am I just attracted to? And so started pinning stuff. I started listening to the right podcast, like, meditating, just doing a lot of inside work. And it's funny because I feel like when you do so much inside work, it kind of manifests to the outside and you glow different. You sort of like show up more confidently. But yeah, so now I no longer identify is hot and I'm perfectly fine with that.
- [07:44]
A
And what has, what has changed for you in having a different perspective on beauty?
- [07:49]
B
Yeah, I think I'm able to feel more confident and that's something that's huge for me. I feel like before kind of I knew I was wearing a mask in some way and I would show up places and I would know in my head like, well, if it were up to me and this is so strange, I would be wearing this or I would be doing whatever. And it kind of was like a light bulb where I realized it is up to me. Like it's up to me to decide how I want to show up at these places. And so I feel like if anything it's really skyrocketed. My motivation, my confidence. I feel really excited about when I go to events and I meet people and it brings this different type of honestly peace within me because I get to have peace knowing like, you know, it doesn't mean that now every time I go somewhere everybody likes me or everyone thinks my outfit's cute, they want to wear what I'm wearing. Nothing like that, but it's a type of piece where regardless if they like it or not, I like it. And that's what matters.
- [08:48]
A
Yeah, I think that's like a, it's a really interesting way of looking at growth and becoming your own personal brand. Because by becoming your own personal brand, you're rooted in authenticity and understanding what makes you you. And the biggest variable for branding is time. And like to become the best personal brand or version of yourself is understanding what you need to learn about yourself over time. And we put so much pressure on ourselves as women where, and I think for the greater part of your 20s, where you're trying to conform, you're trying to be a version of yourself that looks like someone else. And especially with social media and it's what gets in our heads and holds us back.
- [09:28]
B
I completely agree with that and I wish so badly, you know, I'm happy for the journey that I went on. I wouldn't, you know, I don't really like to live life with regrets, but I do wish that I could speak to like the 22 year old girls out there, the 24 year old girls out there because frankly, it's only getting harder, right? There's only more social media, there's only more like pressures. And I wish I could just say to like, really sit with yourself and write out the things that make you happy. Write out the things that light you up. What are the things that you just kind of have, like, a tug, a little string inside of you that, like, is a calling or something like that. What are the, like, outfits that make you feel pretty? Like, you put on this dress and you go out and you're like, I feel really good in this. And focus on that and let all the other noise just be noise.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah, I love that. I want you to touch on, and I know that you're not wanting to publicly share, and I can also cut out this part, too, but I want you to. To talk about being in other people's shadows and going forward into your own without needing it to be about them. But I just feel like there's something I'm really interesting to touch on there for your own personal brand.
- [10:33]
B
Yeah. So I have spent a lot of my 20s. I kind of feel like not tapping into my Batman is sometimes what I call it. And it sounds silly, but, you know, there's a Batman and there's a Robin, and, like, that's just the way it is. And I feel like I was born a Batman, but I just kept playing this role of Robin so many times in my life. And essentially what it looked like was living in other people's shadows. And that looks like me working for, you know, hard bosses, bosses that were very public, and I would sort of write things or do work for them, and, you know, they would get credit, which I get. You know, it's a corporate setting. That's how things worked. But there was so much of me that would go back to my desk and think, like, if I just had my own business or, like, if I got to do this for myself, right? And I'm not clocking in and clocking out and getting paid on someone else's dime. I really think I can make a bigger impact here. And it also looks like in my personal life, like, I have spent time. I've dated, you know, different men in the world, and I also. That's a whole other podcast about men and women, dynamic relationships. But there was a relationship in particular that I really fell to the wayside. And I will say it wasn't necessarily just him. And I think, you know, friends, family, girlfriends, always want to put the blame on the guy. Just not to say that there's no blame. But I will say I. Like, I gave up the driver's seat willingly, right? Like, he kind of pushed to be the driver, and instead of standing in My own. I scooted over easily and sat there and just lived in the shadow. And it looked like, you know, I naturally am the type of person that goes to events that's so happy, that's buzzing around, that's meeting people. Like I said, I'm a girls girl, so I'm always like, where are the girlies? Like, who. Who's here? Kind of thing. But I spent a lot of time going to these events and just kind of like being a little arm candy, just kind of sitting, standing. And then people would ask me about me, and I would feel pressure to be, like, really concise about it. Such. Oh, I just, you know, I just do this little thing. I like, write books, like, no big deal. And they would say, oh, you're so lucky to date this person. And I heard it enough times. I think I started to believe it. And so now I feel so happy to be like, it is my Batman era, and I'm so owning that.
- [13:01]
A
I love that. I feel like there's so much allure and excitement for things that take away from it being about you. And what I love about your story and getting to know you better is that you've had your own moment of even calling it being under the influence, you know, like, it's flashy, it's supposed to be sexy, but there's something about it that feels. It feels a little. Ick is the wrong word. It's like, if you're someone that wants to be in your own spotlight, it's not fun to share it because of. Because other people think it's cool, you know?
- [13:35]
B
Yeah. And it felt like I was like a closeted entrepreneur or something. Like, I would go and clock in at this job, and then I would go home and I would have all these amazing thoughts and ideas and all these different things, and I wanted to be able to execute them in, like, an independent way that wasn't under the umbrella of somebody else or under the shadow of somebody else. And so, yeah, to your point, like, I definitely think that if you are ever in those positions, like, it's important to. To reflect and just kind of figure out, like, what do you want out of life? And are you acting in tandem to that?
- [14:14]
A
Yeah. So I guess that kind of, I think, takes you where you are now. So you moved to New York. What did you feel like was missing?
- [14:24]
B
Yeah.
- [14:24]
A
And what have you leaned into?
- [14:25]
B
I've always had a calling to live in New York. I was the girl that, like, would watch the Macy's Day Parade and be like, I, you know, and of course. And at the time I moved, I had gone out of this relationship. I moved to New York with two suitcases, which was kind of crazy. And I was ready to be with Carrie Bradshaw, basically. Like, I was like, okay, time to be Carrie Bradshaw. I'm ready to date money to all these things. And I truly. I'm so biased. I think New York is the greatest city. I've been able to come. I've lived here for four years, and I've been able to come and make the best community. New York is such a place for connection. And I think, if anything, it really brought that part of me and that passion out in me because I love, like, random coffee dates, like events, things like that. I've been able to really, I think, make the best out of the city. And. And I think that's what New York is like. It's a place that's hard, but I think if you extract all the goodness, like, you can really change your life coming here.
- [15:31]
A
And so what. What has that allowed you to forge?
- [15:34]
B
I don't know what that means.
- [15:36]
A
Like, the. Your ladies groups, your girls groups.
- [15:38]
B
Ah.
- [15:39]
A
I guess I can reset it up. I'm just trying to get to the, like, girl. The. Yeah. Like.
- [15:44]
B
Yeah.
- [15:44]
A
But I. But I feel like there's also probably in some way, like, New York allows you. It gives a ton of. New York gives you a ton. I'm just gonna hide this.
- [15:57]
B
It lets you be whoever you want to be kind of thing.
- [15:59]
A
Yeah. Like, New York allows you to be whoever you want to be. But I also think that New York is also. It's the survival of the fittest.
- [16:05]
B
Yeah.
- [16:05]
A
And unless you have that community, there's. It's hard to get the kind of growth that you. Where you can really take from it.
- [16:12]
B
Yeah. I. Okay. So I feel like New York, obviously, there's so many people here. I think there's some around 8 million. And it's a city that a lot of people can feel lonely. And just generally, even outside of New York, we are all facing this loneliness epidemic. And for me is something that I have always felt passionate about is connecting women. Like I said, I'm such a girls girl. And so I decided, kind of through inspiration that I. I wanted to create a space where women like me, who love to be a girls girl, who love business, who maybe have a tip about their favorite facialist, who maybe want to talk about the discount they got on their shoes and whatnot, but who also are, like, really trailblazing women who are building businesses who are doing amazing things who are, who are sort of at the cross section of influence and impact in business. Let's get all of those women together at a table. Because I feel like there's so much power when women come together. And that's where I thought of the Idea Girl Dinner nyc, which is a monthly dinner series that I host where I basically, it's invite only. And I curate the most amazing, trailblazing, inspiring women across fashion and beauty and health and wellness and all of these different spaces to come together and just, like, sit in conversation in community and talk and help truly raise each other up. Because it's so needed in a city that's like this with 8 million people. Like, you need to have some girls that you can call upon, especially if you're building a business.
- [17:57]
A
Well, that's exactly where we also bonded is I'm at such an interesting point in my life where I don't feel like I connect with the people that were supposed to be the lifelong friends. And it's. I don't think that we're. We're not having these conversations enough where it's okay to outgrow your friends, but where it becomes a problem is when you don't. When you're not filling the gap. Like, it's harder to find friends when you're no longer, you know, in an English class with 45 other people your age, or you're not in a postal code or a zip code where, like, you're being fed into a high school. When you're not forced into these situations to make friends as all adults, it's hard to fill them. And a mentor of mine, one of my favorite lines that I got from him is he said, as humans, we're really bad at buying, but we're really bad at selling. And he was talking about it for, like, basically stocks. We hold on to things for too long and the hopes that, like, it's going to go up. But like, often there's every indication that it's not going anywhere good. And it's the same thing with friendships, same thing with relationships. Like, we're really good at taking on friends, we're really bad at letting them go. And we have such a difficult mindset of, like, I'm a bad person or I'm supposed to just keep collecting friends. And if you're not collecting friends with where you're growing, there's a cap to your growth or there's a waste of your time. And when time is finite, you need to protect your time in order to get the most out of where you're going, and that's where I'm at right now, is if you don't fulfill my situation, like, if it's constant drama or if it's, you know, we just no longer have anything in common. Wish you the best, love, you, think you're amazing, but that's not what I need in a friendship. And that's what you're doing, which I love, is you're filling that gap for me. You're filling my cup because you're like, well, here's other women struggling with what you're struggling with. And, like, here's an opportunity to meet them and connect.
- [19:56]
B
Definitely. And I think so many women can relate to what you said. I know. I specifically have definitely had moments with friends or in reflection of friendships where I'm like, I just don't think we are built the same anymore. And, like, there was a time in our life that we were, like, we were doing the same things. Maybe it was college, we had the same priorities or the same worries, things like that. And then, you know, I always sometimes think about life as sort of like an elevator where everybody's in an elevator. Have you heard this before?
- [20:26]
A
I'm just laughing. I'm thinking about, like, the hills. When she says about her and Jason, like, life is like an island. We can't be together anymore because, like, life isn't an island. But I'm just. I get where you're going with it.
- [20:36]
B
But I think about life being like an elevator where everybody, you know, you make a new friend, they hop in with you, you make a boyfriend, they hop in with you, you go, go, go. But, like, elevators, like, people get out at different floors and, like, not everyone's meant to come to the top. Like, not everybody's meant to be with you for your whole life. And sometimes with peace, you can be like, it's okay, it's okay. Like, it's your. It's your stop, so you have to get out kind of thing.
- [21:03]
A
1. It's also interesting, too. So much of what makes a memory great is that it's shared, you know? And, like, in order to really enjoy a memory is to enjoy it with. With people who share that memory. But the problem is, most of what had happened at that time for forging friendship just isn't dynamic. It's not applicable to the rest of life. Like, you talk about what happens in university. Well, like, that's a very controlled situation. Like, you're paying to be there, you're picked in the residence, you're going to be in and you make the most of that situation, and that can be great for a lot of people. But if your focus is investing in your business, investing in your personal brand, the things you're struggling with at 30, 40, 50, 60, are no longer those same problems in that res block. You know, it's no longer about Jonathan. You know, like, it's. And we. We feel guilty about even having this conversation because it becomes almost like you're too good.
- [22:07]
B
Yeah. And.
- [22:08]
A
But honestly, what I struggle with now as a business owner, as a human being at this point in my life is vastly different than what I struggled with in my early years in university. And I. I need a very different person, and I don't need them to be the same age as me.
- [22:29]
B
Yeah.
- [22:29]
A
I don't even need them to look the same as me. I don't even need to be from the same city. I need you to have gone through what I'm going through, which is very unique or something similar, too, in order for me to keep chucking through this journey.
- [22:43]
B
Yeah. That is so real. And I feel like I can relate to it so much because, I don't know, I just feel like there's people. When you think about the friendships you've had, and you're like, oh, we used to talk about, you know, sorority life or whatever, and now you're like. Like, we don't have much to talk about anymore. Or like, if I think one of the biggest tells that you've kind of outgrown a friendship is when you're together and all you talk about is the past or other people. Yeah. Like, all you talk about is like, oh, my gosh, remember this? Like, you're just only reminiscent. Or like, oh, did you hear what that person's up to? Or did you see what that person's doing now? I think it's funny. So you just shared with me Otter AI. And to me, I feel like it's such a tell of, like, yes, I. This is the type of friendship I love because I love women that are building businesses that also share little tips. And you're like, this is what I use for my meetings, blah, blah, blah. And like, those are the things that sound so silly. At one point in my life, maybe I was excited by, like, fraternity, you know, gathering or something like that. And now I'm sitting here getting hyped up on, like, an AI app that.
- [23:52]
A
You'Re Shanifa, you told.
- [23:53]
B
Yeah.
- [23:54]
A
Like, oh, my God.
- [23:55]
B
Yeah, exactly. And. Or people sending me a podcast that's like, this was so good. You should Listen to it. And it just is funny because that just not everybody's thing, like it's not everyone's thing. There's different types of people that have different goals. And I know mine are very, you know, big, exciting and things that light me up, but that's just not how everyone functions. And that's also okay.
- [24:19]
A
No, I, I think that there's cut Jasmine. There's a lot of, there's a lot of celebration and conversation around lifelong friendships. That's there, that exists. What's missing is the conversation around firing your friends and leveling up. And if you're hyper invested in your personal brand or your business brand or doing things that need to make you better, you need to change the people around you because there's a limit to how far you're going to be able to push yourself if you're not adding more people into your elevator. And that was what I struggled with is when I first started creating content, all that I had were up. The people around me were those who knew me. And it was the most crippling thing to start creating content because it was all the girls I knew from high school, all the girls I knew from university, and the people I collected along the way from those beginning jobs that get the first crack at seeing you start to change. And they're the worst and they continue to be the worst. And I spoke about this in a caption. I said, the small minded people, they stayed small minded, but my world got bigger. And that's what to me you represent is, is they can stay, it's their prerogative, Stay where you need to stay. But if you're invested in making yourself bigger, you got to expand that circle. And the only reason, the only way you do that is by adding people in and embracing a network and a network that's designed to lift you up, which is what we don't talk about enough as women. For those who are struggling with the relationships they have, that's what this conversation is for.
- [25:59]
B
Definitely. And that's what I love about girl dinner is being able to see women. I had one recently where somebody left and they were like, listen, I go to a lot of events in New York. You sort of go, you have like this small talk, things like that, but you don't always kind of like leave with a friend, stuff like that. And she said, I'm leaving. I'm in a group chat with these girls that I met here. This was so amazing. I feel like I've left with friends. And to me that's such A win to hear, because that's what I want. I want every single person who comes to feel like they left with a friend. They left with maybe a book that they should be reading. They left with a tip on an app that someone's finding productivity hacks or something like that. I want someone to leave really feeling like they're buckets of woman in business friendships. All these different things. Like, everything is kind of filled.
- [26:55]
A
No, it's. It's leaving with. With more, not less. And this is what I've struggled with too, is I find I'm. I'm trying. It's like you almost get, like, some form of Stockholm syndrome. It's like when you leave your. These like, old friends and you, like, start to kind of miss them, and you start. You still start to feel kind of guilty, and then you see them again, and then you're like, no, nothing has changed. They still suck. And I still regret it. Every moment that I spend. Especially when you're busy, like, time is finite, and where you decide to spend your time is capped. One of my favorite insights that I learned is that I watched the documentary on Bill Gates and he said, the only thing that I protect is my time, because it does not matter how much money I have. The only thing I can't buy more of is time. And I find the simplest things are the are is what is the most transformational for me. And when I heard that and I was young, like, this was years ago when this documentary came out, and I'm like, I finally understood time, and I understood that my time is limited. I need to make the most of my time. And I see things through additions or subtractions. You know, was it an addition or was it subtraction? And being around women that can just talk about, like, great places to shop or, like, cool apps to use. Like, it doesn't have to be, like, dynamic, like cost accounting techniques. Like, it can just be things like that, to me, is more in line than spending time talking about a girl that I went to university with that maybe breaking up with her ex husband. Like, I don't care.
- [28:31]
B
No time for that.
- [28:32]
A
No time for that. But, like, talking. But a cool new boutique, like, in the west side, it's like, that's still an addition. I'm still gonna check it out.
- [28:39]
B
Totally. Yeah. Like, oh, where did you get that jewelry? Oh, my gosh, this is my friend's company. She's building it. Blah, blah, blah. Like, no. And. And that's the thing is it's not like an IRL women's LinkedIn. Like, we're not here to just talk cost accounting. Yeah, yeah.
- [28:54]
A
HR principles.
- [28:55]
B
Yeah.
- [28:56]
A
Still normal people. Yeah.
- [28:57]
B
No, we're, like, having drinks.
- [28:59]
A
We're so fun.
- [28:59]
B
Is cute. The ambiance is stunning. But, you know, hopefully there's things that, for example, what you're talking about, about friendship, I totally relate to that. Like, I'm very much in a mindset right now of I'm focused on my goals. I'm heads down and I'm moving forward. And the friends when I lift my head up that are left and right are still there. Great. Those are my real friends. The other friends that I, you know, haven't been able to connect with or no longer sort of like going on this journey with me. I have to be okay that I'm gonna leave those friendships behind. That is something that is a total conversation, I feel like starter at a girl dinner where. Yeah, you're not necessarily talking about, like, the biggest plays in any sort of, like, business industry, but you're maybe talking about these things that, like, women can relate to.
- [29:49]
A
But. But it also the opportunity for the conversation to happen. Right. And like, that's. It's become a bit of a cliche of, like, you know, you want to be the dumbest person or, like, the, you know, the least of the five people, or you are a product of the five people that you're around. I like to take it to the next level and say, I would like to be where I think is at the bottom of the five people around me. Because what you struggle with as you grow in life can be in different boxes. Like, it can be in a relationship, it can be in business. It can be in personal finding yourself or in establishing what. What your personal brand looks like or who you are, what you should wear. But I would still rather get that advice for someone that I feel more in line with and I look up to more than someone where I only feel like they knew me at a part of my life that they can understand my mindset. And to me, I don't think it's. It's different. Like, I would rather ask more menial things, meaning menial by way of, like, it not being business, it being more personal with someone I respect in a business setting, because that is still someone that I feel more aligned with. And we don't use, like, alignment, especially women, where we lack often confidence in understanding where you're at. And it's. It's okay that if you're focused on growing and reading and pushing yourself and pushing your boundaries and your friends at a point of your life are not. You're growing. And, like, you have to. If you're like, I'm invested in growth, I'm investing in always being better. If I'm 1% better every single day, even if I see a friend, you know, three months later, ideally, I'm 10% better. So if. If that growth continues to trajectory and to change, the idea is that there's probably less that I can get from them than meeting more people that have been pushing themselves, ideally, even harder than I have been, so that I can get more for where I want to go and wherever that is.
- [31:39]
B
Definitely. Have you heard about the concept of adders, multipliers, subtractors, dividers? No, wait, really? Okay. It's a book. I wish I remember the author's name. In summary, it basically says that people. There are all sort of people, but they all fall under this category in your life. So there are people who are adders. So people who, when you meet them, you feel happy. You sort of, like, your cups filled up. You know, everyone kind of knows what that is. There are subtractors. So you meet them and they take. You're exhausted after. Maybe they're complaining about their boyfriend the whole time. Maybe they're telling you about how much they hate their job, and you're just sort of like, whoa, mentally drained after. Then there are multipliers. So the multipliers are sort of the adders on steroids. So you are with them, but instead of just you leaving, being like, wow, that was so great. I had a great time. You're leaving and you're feeling, like, inspired. You're leaving. Yeah. You're leveling up. You're talking about an idea, a concept. You're talking about something that you're like, I'm struggling with this right now with my branding, and you're giving me advice saying, you should make content about this, this, that, And I'm walking away being like, I just have a great time. I'm, like, motivated to do more and to be more because of this interaction. And then dividers are not just people who take away. They're people who cause friction. So you said people who talk about other people, drama. Like, those are the dividers. So we are in a season of adders and multipliers only.
- [33:03]
A
Totally.
- [33:04]
B
No, because.
- [33:04]
A
Because you have to be. And I. I love what you're building. I love what it represents. And I. I love being able to speak. I feel, like, almost embarrassed to, like, be vulnerable to new women and be like, I like you know, I've got friends. Like, you know, I'm not a loner. Like, it's not like I have nobody, but. But to be like, I, I want more in my friendships and I am confident enough to say, hey, like, I'm looking for friendships that, that add in my life. And I, I see myself and I'm told that I'm like more confident than the average person and I feel vulnerable doing it. And I just want to at least open up the dialogue that if other people are listening to this and they're feeling the same way, you're not alone.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah.
- [33:53]
A
And there needs to be outlets and opportunities and maybe it's a growth trajectory to be invited to the girl that are nyc. But at least know that I want to help start this conversation with you if you're feeling that way. Because the goal is in listening to this, you're trying to level up. And I want you to level up.
- [34:11]
B
Absolutely. And I think that's what girl dinner is for. And it's for exactly what you're kind of going through. Through. And I think so many other women and female founders, especially again with social media where it's just like essentially everyone's seeing a highlight reel. You're sort of seeing the best of the best. It's easy to get in your head or it's easy to feel vulnerable or to feel like, I'm not good enough. Nobody's. Yeah, I'm not good enough. Nobody else is feeling this way. Nobody else has gone through this. Those sort of things. But to create a space that's intimate enough where people. People can kind of raise their hand and be like, no, I am currently going through it. Or I feel the same exact way. Or I have been through that. Like, let me help you. That's what I want. And I'm here. There will be no boy dinner NYC for the women only I ride for the girls. So that's hilarious.
- [35:01]
A
I also think too is. I guess in kind of summary there's. You wrap up a really good point that I want to remember. What did you just say before you went to the Hobie? No boy dinner. That was so cute. The girl social media.
- [35:15]
B
Everybody looks a certain way.
- [35:17]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the other thing too is. And Jaz, you can put this before her summary point. Cause that was such a great summary point to wrap it up. I think that's another great point too is that when. When you're wanting to invest in your personal brand and you want to start putting yourself out there we had this conversation right before filming this. You feel like you don't know how to start. And even though it can be so much of your life, like, you are totally a fashion influence, you're totally a business influence, you're totally a network and a connector, you feel almost like an imposter to start creating the content. And you, like, look to other women and that are already, like, that have been doing it for years. And you're like, that's who I would love to be, but there's no way that I can be them. And because they have that social proof of, like, doing the reps and posting about it, they're in some way more validated than someone that could be doing it at the same or a higher level already. And I think that's another benefit to this conversation, to open up for those listening, is that it sucks to start, and it's normal to suck to start. And it's a whole part of the process is that often women who want to be perfect right away, and we don't want to go through that struggle, period. And that's where you need to surround yourself with better people that multiply or divide. No, sorry, not divide. Multiply or add, I guess, probably multiply, but to multiply so that not only are you leaving charged up, but, like, with more ideas on how to execute it. Because it doesn't happen alone. Like, it takes a village 100%.
- [36:49]
B
And I think the fear that I used to have is I'm so scared to be seen trying, and now I've abandoned that. And also because of, like, our conversations that we have, it helps me so much because I used to feel like, you know the kid Dr. Seuss book, are you my mother? That's sometimes what I used to feel like when I was creating content, because I would get so overwhelmed with this idea of, like, I need to fit in a box. I need a niche. If I post one app, like, photo of my outfit, I have decided I'm a fashion influencer. If I, like, share something about a business type networking, I am like, the next LinkedIn influencer. Like, I felt so worried that I was gonna be put in a box. I felt like I couldn't. Like, I wasn't gonna share anything at all at that point. But talking to you and you opening it up of being like, listen, like, your personal brand is you. And it's all of these different things that you like and you do and you see and et cetera. Yeah, it's really helped me sort of feel more comfortable with basically like, understanding this aspect. But also I think it's testament to what you just mentioned. Like, we can't do it alone.
- [37:58]
A
Well, there's also. There's two points to that. The first point is, and I love how you said it, when you think of, like, the. The top influencers, like, when you think of, like, a Melissa Woodhouse or an Arielle Charnas or a Mariana Hewitt, we look at them to today and it's so hard to put them in a box. Like, we use their names because, like, they have dynamic personalities online. And let's use Melissa Woodhouse, for example. Like, she's not just fitness, she's got a great fitness platform, but what makes her content so engaging and so interesting to a lot of people on a daily basis is it's her life. And your life isn't one thing. Your life is a bunch of different things. And when you're wanting to create a personal brand, there's. There's kind of two ways to do it. There's like the influencer or there's like the hyper professional, but there's also a space to do both. And when people are following you as a person, they need to see all those sides of you. And that's why you're seeing influencers so perfectly segue into being business owners, because they understand that what makes a business more interesting is showing the human aspect behind what makes that business a success. And when you think about the, you know, the Elon Musk, the Steve Jobs, like, we know things about them and it's, it's, it's how, it's how we buy.
- [39:16]
B
No, absolutely. I feel like I no longer think about, like, I have to be this. I have to be this. I have to be this. Like, I just. That's why I always say I want to be a modern Renaissance woman. Some might say I have commitment issues or something, but I. Yeah, I just think, especially as a woman, like, you can be it all, want it all, do it all. Like, you don't need to be anything. Yeah.
- [39:41]
A
Like, you don't. You don't have to be put in a box. And often. One of my favorite books is called Range. And the premise of Range is that what makes people interesting or the best of what they do is, is often that they're more dynamic and that they're able to create connections across a range of topics and expertise in order to be really better at one thing. So, like, you are a better or more approachable or more relatable or more interesting businesswoman because you've done x X and X, and you're interested in Y, Z, and it gives you the range and dynamic so that there's no shortage of business women and networking. There's no shortage of them. But, like, what makes you unique is really attractive to a bunch of different women. Because you're fashionable, because you live in New York, you've written a book. Like, these are the storytelling pieces because we sell through stories. Like, think about when you explain me or Alex last night. You don't explain like, oh, this is, you know, Alex, and she does acts. You explain, explain through, like, a whole story of who she is, what she represents and what we do. Like, we sell through storytelling.
- [40:54]
B
Yeah, we're all just walking stories, literally.
- [40:56]
A
And that's the better brand, is to, like, capture your story so it's not doing one thing. I also have another interesting addition to your point on feeling like an imposter or not feeling comfortable and, like, needing to be one thing and one thing only. And. And I had this call the other day with this top news anchor, and she's been on TV for 20 years. She's like, a really big name in TV. And she reached out to me and she's like, hey, I want to build a personal brand. And what was really interesting about her building the personal brand is she's like, the reason why I reached out was one of your videos. And in the video, you talk about it sucking in the beginning, and it's just going to suck and excuse accepting that it's going to suck and becoming comfortable. And she says to me, as she's saying this back, she goes like, I realize that you're the person I want to work with because you're. You're the first person telling me my own fears. And I was like, whoa, because this is a TV anchor of 20 years. And I'm like, it's crazy to me that that's the message of all the messages that you resonated the most with, because that's what you represent in your day job, is what everybody else that connects with that video would never suspect being the person. Like, the fact that you're on TV and you're like, I hate the idea of putting myself online is like such a crazy connection. And was really interesting. Her response was one. She was like, whoa. I never realized, even though it's such a silly thing thing that. That you would think that that's interesting. So she said it back to me being like, well, that's crazy. You think it's interesting because I think that's crazy. But she's like, in reflection on realizing that when I think about being on TV shows, all I'm trying to do is making the cast laugh and there's four people in front of me. And she goes, when you're on live TV shows, you don't get view count, you don't get likes, you don't get comments, you know, you don't get feedback. She was, yeah, people stop you in the streets and, like, yes, you know, like, some cool guests will come on, but, like, you're effectively in a studio room with, like, a few people looking at you. She goes, it is so different than putting yourself online and seeing instant feedback and comments. And she goes, that difference is crippling even for me as a TV anchor.
- [43:17]
B
That is crazy. And that makes sense. Like, I. I do think a lot of people feel. Feel the fear of, like, putting things up online, and it's just, like, up for the peanut gallery, so. But it's crazy to think about a TV anchor feeling that way, because I've been on tv, like, in those sort of rooms, and I think that's one of the most intimidating. Like, camera, lights, everything, like, all in your face. And the fact that she does that with ease. And then, like, at home a little. Yeah, like, that's crazy.
- [43:49]
A
Especially with it being live, like, getting one shot and being like, okay, there we go. But what I loved about it is I just love every day the people that I hear and the stories and the vignettes. I think it's what made, like, the humans of New York so big is it becomes so easy to be like, they can do this because of X and I can't do it. And I love seeing the anxieties that exist in all of us and helping them and using them as, like, stories for empowerment for someone to be like, actually, they feel that way too, so I'm gonna do it because they feel that way and they're going to do it because without having these conversations and.
- [44:29]
B
These connections, you just hold yourself back 100%. I kind of live by the philosophy that I think that we are all so much more similar than we are different.
- [44:39]
A
And.
- [44:39]
B
And I think the more people I meet only confirm that belief.
- [44:43]
A
Oh, yeah. I mean, that's. I couldn't agree more. And I think the higher up you go, I think that's been, like, the most interesting thing for me in my job is that there's so much, like, glamour and coolness with the big brands. And, like, I suffered with them. I suffered this, too. I was like, oh, my gosh, you Know, like, there's no way that this small business couldn't any be similar to, you know, the big name, the big brand. But it's the same people struggling with the same things with budget, with performance, with how social media works, with whether or not this product launch is going to be successful. They're just doing it with more money and with a different like, level of stress. But like the issues, the core components are exactly the same and it's really what it comes down to. And that's why I really enjoy actually working more with like the, the small business, the average business, because it's so much more fun having the data of what works. Because, like, what works is what works. Like humans are humans. Like, and that's why we almost love that success story of like that small business doing this crazy gorilla thing on TikTok. Because when a smaller business does it and it works, works, it's so much cooler than when like a big company that has tons of money, like throws ideas at it.
- [46:01]
B
It's so boring.
- [46:01]
A
So boring.
- [46:02]
B
Oh great, you're still doing well. But like when the underdog, when that like, like I don't. Did you see the viral Tik Tok video? This was months and months ago about the author, like selling his books just at a little like, no, it was almost like a lemonade stand and like nobody was kind of coming by and he was sitting there and I don't know where he was. He must have been in like a department, like a Walmart or something like that. And he just like brought us like brought his books, a couple of them I think was a sci fi book or something. And he just sat there and like nobody was really buying them and somebody recorded him and I think they went up and like bought a book and as Tick Tock does, it went so viral and he ended up being I think like a New York Times bestseller. Something crazy. Yeah, because. Because I think as humans as much as you know, we support and like, we do put our money towards like bigger brands and stuff like that. Like, I love a small business, I love to shop small, but I can't say that I exclusively do that. But we love like the small business and we love, to me especially I think if you're an entrepreneur because, you know, like, it's so fun to know the human behind something and I'm so much more willing to put my money towards something even if, if it's more expensive when I know like that is someone who is hustling, they are staying up, they're like fulfilling orders at their kitchen table. Like, I love that.
- [47:23]
A
But it's like, we love a good story, but what makes a good story a good story is when it's not a huge brand. The problem is that the small business holds themselves back by not thinking outside the box because they don't think they have the power, the reach. And like, that's what's changed is that when a small business thinks in an interesting and a dynamic way through the power of social media, they can get a disproportionate effect. Even when you think a few years back of, like, that bakery in New York that did, like, the rainbow bagels and, like, it blew up. Like, the average small business is just like, how do I survive today? And when they're constantly like, how do I survive today? You're not innovating and being dynamic. Whereas Oreo is like, how do we kill it? Next quarter, let's do a Barbie Oreo and we'll buy it. Like, we support it. It does well there. It's dynamic thinking, but it's like, it's not dynamic to us because we expect those levels of brand collabs and such.
- [48:19]
B
Right, Right.
- [48:20]
A
What has been your learnings in networking and how to network in a big city?
- [48:24]
B
I think my number one tip is genuinely to take all the fear that you have and put it in. In a box and go put it somewhere else. Because I feel like the number one thing I hear about people connecting, even in a city like New York, is fear. Like, I don't want to come across weird that, no, we're not doing that anymore. Like, I'm such a believer of just shooting your shot and in a tangible way. What that looks like is, let's say you follow someone on Instagram. Like, you are trying to get into the beauty space. You. You are following someone who's building a beauty business. I think the best thing to do is to go on Instagram, send them a DM and be like, hey, I love what you're doing. I love what you're building. I would love to go grab coffee with you if you have any time. I do that all the time. Like, I'm constantly. I. I probably am in more DMS than all of the, like, FBoys out there sliding into DMS. Like, I. I so believe that that's such a great way to connect with people. And I also will say I think people feel more comfortable, almost like behind a screen, obviously, you kind of, like, feel more powerful.