Guest 12: Nature, Luxury & The Power of Persistence: Emily Carter’s Path to High-End Design

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Art of the Brand Episode: Guest 12: Nature, Luxury & The Power of Persistence: Emily Carter’s Path to High-End Design
Release Date: February 4, 2025
Host: Camille Moore and Phillip Millar
Guest: Emily Carter, Founder of Emily Carter Studio

---

Introduction and Guest Background

In the twelfth episode of The Art of the Brand, hosts Camille Moore and Phillip Millar welcome Emily Carter, a prestigious luxury designer based in London, England. Emily, who flew to Dublin exclusively for this in-person interview, delves into her journey in the high-end design industry, balancing her passion for nature with luxury branding.

The Essence of Emily Carter’s Brand

Emily introduces her brand, Emily Carter Studio, highlighting its foundation in artistry and personal reflection. She explains:

"Every design that I create is a representation of a memory or a feeling. And I think that's what people need to buy into these days. I think that's what matters to people is buying into stories, buying into their memories."
— Emily Carter [00:43]

Her accessories, primarily silk scarves, are hand-drawn and meticulously crafted in England. Emily emphasizes the blend of textures, natural elements, and antiquity in her designs, drawing inspiration from jewelry, baroque art, Dutch flower paintings, and her extensive travels.

Intersection of Nature and Luxury

Emily’s deep-rooted love for nature stems from her childhood aspiration to become a biologist and a scientific illustrator. She shares:

"I spent most of my childhood in the garden finding bugs. And I've got the most beautiful garden at home where my dad lives, so that's where it all came from."
— Emily Carter [02:09]

This connection influences her dual personality—balancing the glamour of high-end fashion with the groundedness of her scientific interests. Emily is also a professional rower, a commitment that she humorously contrasts with her luxurious lifestyle:

"I'm half glamorous and can put on that show. But also I'm a rower as well, so like very outdoorsy."
— Emily Carter [03:47]

Journey into Luxury Design

Emily’s path to becoming a luxury designer was not straightforward. Initially motivated by ego and the allure of the luxury industry’s mystique, she later recognized the darker aspects of the sector. Reflecting on her evolution, she states:

"My connection to luxury was my connection mostly with the ego. Once I'd sort of got rid of the ego a few years ago, I started to ask myself, what am I doing this and why."
— Emily Carter [09:18]

Her journey has been tumultuous, marked by extreme highs and lows, including managing a full-time job at Harrods while growing her brand. A pivotal moment was seeing Kate Moss wear her scarf in Vogue, which happened unexpectedly just a month after leaving her full-time position.

"Seeing Kate Moss wearing my scarf in Vogue was probably the best moment because I didn't expect it."
— Emily Carter [11:22]

Marketing, Social Media, and PR Strategies

Emily discusses the significant shift in social media’s role in branding over the past decade. Initially, organic Instagram growth was effective:

"Pretty much all of my buyers, pretty much all of them, bar the ones that I knew personally, found me on Instagram."
— Emily Carter [14:38]

However, as the platform evolved, she found success dwindling unless she paid for promotions. Frustrated by ineffective outsourced social media strategies, Emily adopts a hands-on, trial-and-error approach, trusting her understanding of her brand’s unique appeal.

"I think running a business is pushing you to become a version of yourself that you never could see yourself being."
— Emily Carter [31:10]

When it comes to public relations, Emily has never invested in paid PR. Instead, she relies on networking, direct outreach, and organic mentions, such as consistently supplying Vogue with her scarves.

"I've never paid for PR. I've done all of my PR myself through networking, emailing people, DMing people."
— Emily Carter [29:14]

Overcoming Challenges and Building Resilience

The luxury design industry presents numerous challenges, from maintaining authenticity to navigating business pressures like economic downturns. Emily candidly shares her struggles during a recession:

"It has been really difficult sometimes. It's a roller coaster."
— Emily Carter [10:08]

Despite feeling overwhelmed at times, Emily emphasizes the importance of persistence and incremental progress:

"I just need to keep doing little things. Little things matter. The only thing you need to do is just keep doing."
— Emily Carter [38:24]

Her resilience is further exemplified by her experience with rejection and setbacks. Emily adopts a mindset inspired by Jamie Kern Lima, viewing rejection as redirection.

"Rejection is redirection. Even when six deals fall through in two weeks, I got most of those deals back again, but in a better way."
— Emily Carter [39:13]

The Future of Branding and Adaptation

Emily reflects on the evolving landscape of branding, especially under the influence of younger generations like Gen Z and platforms like TikTok. She feels pressured to modernize her brand to cater to younger audiences but remains cautious about maintaining her brand’s integrity:

"There's a pressure at the moment to conform to this kind of modernism. But I don't want to cheapen the brand or potentially cheapen the brand by doing something like that."
— Emily Carter [26:12]

She advocates for brands to stay true to their core values and customer base, resisting the urge to dilute their identity for broader appeal.

Lessons and Insights for Business Owners

Emily offers invaluable advice for entrepreneurs and business owners, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, persistence, and the willingness to step out of one’s comfort zone. She underscores the significance of building a supportive network:

"Having a community of people that get what you're doing or understand what it's like running a business helps so much."
— Emily Carter [32:05]

Moreover, Emily encourages business owners to embrace rejection and view it as a pathway to better opportunities, fostering personal and professional growth.

Conclusion

Emily Carter’s story is a testament to the fusion of personal passion and professional excellence. Her journey from a garden-loving child to a celebrated luxury designer underscores the power of persistence, authenticity, and the importance of storytelling in branding. Through her candid discussions, Emily offers profound insights into navigating the complexities of the luxury market while staying true to one’s artistic vision.

For those interested in exploring Emily Carter’s exquisite designs, you can follow her on Instagram @emilycasterlondon and visit her online platforms:

• Shop: emilycarsh.co.uk
• Retailers: Liberty, Fortnum & Mason, Harvey Nichols, Gary Zafayette
• International Availability: Hong Kong and Doha

Emily Carter’s dedication to her craft and her unwavering commitment to her brand’s story make her a quintessential example of "Marketing is storytelling, baby."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Emily Carter [00:43]: "Every design that I create is a representation of a memory or a feeling."
• Emily Carter [02:09]: "I spent most of my childhood in the garden finding bugs."
• Emily Carter [09:18]: "My connection to luxury was my connection mostly with the ego."
• Emily Carter [11:22]: "Seeing Kate Moss wearing my scarf in Vogue was probably the best moment because I didn't expect it."
• Emily Carter [14:38]: "Pretty much all of my buyers, pretty much all of them, bar the ones that I knew personally, found me on Instagram."
• Emily Carter [29:14]: "I've never paid for PR. I've done all of my PR myself through networking, emailing people, DMing people."
• Emily Carter [31:10]: "I think running a business is pushing you to become a version of yourself that you never could see yourself being."
• Emily Carter [38:24]: "I just need to keep doing little things. Little things matter."
• Emily Carter [39:13]: "Rejection is redirection. Even when six deals fall through in two weeks, I got most of those deals back again, but in a better way."
• Emily Carter [26:12]: "There's a pressure at the moment to conform to this kind of modernism. But I don't want to cheapen the brand or potentially cheapen the brand by doing something like that."
• Emily Carter [32:05]: "Having a community of people that get what you're doing or understand what it's like running a business helps so much."

---

This summary encapsulates the rich and engaging dialogue between the hosts and Emily Carter, providing comprehensive insights into her brand, challenges, and philosophies in the luxury design industry.

Transcript

[A]

The best thing about running a business is it pushes you to become a version of yourself that you never could see yourself being.

[B]

What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Welcome to Art of the Brand. Today I'm joined with Emily Carter, a top designer out of London, England. She has flown to Dublin, Ireland to do this interview exclusively in person. And I'm so excited for you to hear about the good, bad and the ugly of luxury design. Emily, welcome. Please introduce yourself, who you are, what you do to set up this podcast off.

[A]

Right, thank you for having me. Firstly, my name is Emily. I own a luxury silk accessories brand, Emily Cards, London based in the uk, all made in England, all hand drawn by myself.

[B]

It was really interesting because when I saw your stuff right away it felt, it was this feeling of I've seen the brand before, but I've also never seen anything like it. Oh, I, I appreciate that, but it was a really. It felt like something that I. It's so classic, but it's also so new. I guess maybe explain how. What, what is your brand?

[A]

It's a really difficult question to answer. I would say it's a complete reflection of me, like as a person, obviously. Artistry, craft in general, it just comes from your soul. Right. Comes from your heart. And everything that I draw comes from some deep emotion or something like that. And, and yeah, that's basically the brand and it is a reflection of me, which is nice, I suppose.

[B]

And every piece of your scarves has a mix of texture, natural elements and some kind of antiquity design. How would you describe it?

[A]

I would say because I love jewelry, baroque, any kind of art, Dutch flower paintings, any of these kind of art eras. So I mix all of that in. I travel a lot, so all of my travel goes into it and obviously my love of nature. So I suppose it's just a montage of everything that I. That I like.

[B]

So why do you love nature? Tell me about your relationship with nature.

[A]

So I actually wanted to be a biologist, so I spent most of my childhood in the garden finding bugs. And I've got most beautiful garden at home where my dad lives, so that's where it all came from. And yeah, I also wanted to be a scientific illustrator. So I've kind of ended up doing that at the same time as. As running the brand, which is a bit of a. Yeah, oxymoron. But it seems to work. Yeah.

[B]

So describe. Cause I think that's A really interesting intersection of who Emily Carter is. You're like this high end fashion designer living in London, England who prefers to be like analyzing and drawing bugs.

[A]

Completely accurate for like science textbooks. That's what I do in my spare time. Yeah. So.

[B]

And you're the most. Tell me about the thing that you're the most proud of right now.

[A]

So I have an entomological book coming out which is the study of insects. So I have massive bug book coming out which is going to be launched in the Natural History Museum in September. And actually I actually wrote the bio that I wrote in. It was this is for my inner child because actually as a five year old this would have been my dream to do that. So it's a very personal and very sweet project actually.

[B]

So you're experiencing peak life at such a young age when you've like, this is where I want you to become more uncomfortable and like, and less humble because it's so hilarious for what you've achieved in the high five. Yeah.

[A]

Going to the fashion awards and ball gowns and. Yeah. Meeting celebrities, being in Vogue and celebrities.

[B]

And being sold at the highest end department stores in London, England. And you're like, yes, I'm doing a bug.

[A]

Bug. Yeah, yeah. This is my like duo personality that most people find very confusing because I'm half glamorous and can put on that show. But also I'm a rower as well, so like very outdoorsy. Can put my flip flops on and just go and take my boat out for the day, like and just love that too. So it's interesting mix of personalities, which is very confusing.

[B]

Rowing is very fabulous though.

[A]

Like it is so gruesome in the Thames though. No, it's not fabulous. You have to like trudge in the Thames with your boat, like carrying your boat on your own.

[B]

You're rowing in the Thames. Yeah.

[A]

Like when, like five times a week. Professional rower. Like a race? Yeah.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, I'll show you afterwards. You look so confused.

[B]

You carry a boat in London into the river at like four in the morning.

[A]

No. Like seven.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we do evenings as well, slightly the sunset.

[B]

And with like with your team?

[A]

I go out with my team sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm going off tangent here. I'm really sorry.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that was just the natural kind of grounded element which I think is quite interesting.

[B]

I'm just more fascinated for like how much stuff you pack into your life.

[A]

So I live next to the rowing club, to be fair, so I don't actually have to travel to it. It Is just there.

[B]

But where do you park your boat?

[A]

Oh, it's in the boat club.

[B]

Oh, so you hold it there and.

[A]

Then you like, it's not my boat either. Like, it's their boat and, like, yeah, just carry it out.

[B]

I thought you were like, you know, I have people, like, carry their bike to work and, like, you're like, oh, no.

[A]

Yeah, it, like, stocks up. Oh, so take it on the Jeep.

[B]

This is so stupid, but I need to ask now that I've gotten myself to this position, there are no solo rowing boats. Yes, no, there are.

[A]

They're called sculling boats. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

Okay, so I'll show you afterwards.

[B]

So do you also scull?

[A]

Yes, yes. That's what I do most mornings. Yeah.

[B]

Cool. Yeah. I can only imagine how hard it is. I mean, it's fun. When I said it's fabulous, it was not that it was for the faint of heart, but it's like, no, it.

[A]

Just is a bit more greedy than fabulous. I think it's, you know, you're rowing out there in the snow, sometimes you just get on with it.

[B]

Like, to me, it's just a sport of fabulous people. Like, you're looking at row. I'm like, yeah, okay.

[A]

It's quite British, though. I get the quintessential. I guess the category goes with the brand.

[B]

Very British. So explain your personal brand to me.

[A]

It's a really difficult question because, again, I can't. I don't really have an answer for it. It literally is just. It's me or my personality is all my things that I'm interested in on paper. So. And pure craft, pure artistry and other things that I value. And obviously everything's made in the uk, small teams making everything. So. Yeah.

[B]

And what is that process? So you sell accessories, you're an accessory designer, and you hand sketch, maybe like, break. Break down those steps.

[A]

So, yeah, everything's drawn with pen and then it's scanned in and I digitally color it all. I don't do it with paint. With paint anymore. It just takes too long. But yes, digitally colored, that actually takes longer than the drawing sometimes. And then everything is individually placed. So some of my, like, SC can have like hundreds and hundreds of layers in. This has got quite a few. But.

[B]

So what do you mean by layers?

[A]

So each drawing is like a separate drawing and everything is laid out individually.

[B]

But do you plan the full square as one square?

[A]

You mirror it. So you do one corner and then you mirror it because they're generally all mirrored. But yes.

[B]

But when you're saying, like, when I look at the scarf that you're wearing, like, so the. The chains become, like, its own layer. But it was a part of the original drawing.

[A]

Yes. So that's an individual drawing. So every section is an individual, like, piece. So I'll draw, like, that section and duplicate it around on the scarf.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

So here's an individual drawing. Keys are all individual. So that's probably got about 20 drawings in it.

[B]

And so when you draw each of them, how do you decide that they're all gonna go together?

[A]

Oh, that's a really good question. So usually I have the design in my head already, and then I know what elements I need to draw, and then I put them in. And if some of them don't work or I need to add a bit, you know, different tail on it or a different, like, section on it, then I do. But, yeah, I already have the design how I want it to look in my head before it's done.

[B]

But how do you see the designs in your mind?

[A]

Someone's asked me that before, and I don't. I don't know how to answer that question. They're just. I can just see what it's supposed to look like.

[B]

Like, you see that? Yeah, you see the final product, and it stays in your mind. And when you decide to go in and do it, you're like, oh, okay, you know, I've done the peacock, and I've done the Jaguar, but haven't done the chain yet. That's how you.

[A]

Yeah, So I think you know the elements that you want in it. So for this one, I was like, okay, I want it to be green. I want a leopard in it. I want it to be quite jewelly, quite opulent. Maybe some, like, tassels in it. And then I just keep adding and adding and adding. So I don't think there's a clock in it as well. So a lot of my designs have references to time and slightly more interesting references as well.

[B]

Where I found our conversation really interesting and where I want to dig into is. You've fallen into becoming a luxury designer.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

And I find luxury branding fascinating. Before I get into my opinions on where luxury is going, I'd love to hear your perspective on. At what point did you realize you'd become a luxury designer?

[A]

This is a really interesting answer because actually, it was something I realized recently that my connection to luxury was my connection mostly with the ego. And actually, once I'd sort of got rid of the ego a few years ago or lessened, reduce the ego Actually, I sort of asked myself, what am I doing this and why? But in the beginning it was all like, I want this fabulous brand because I want it to represent this side of me, if that makes sense. And that's what it. Yeah, that's what it meant to me. And I just thought the whole industry was fabulous. I had always been inspired by it. Yeah. There was a mystery to it that I wanted to understand and I wanted to be part of. But I've now been part of it and seen the other side of it too, which it's never quite what you expect it to be.

[B]

I believe that. I mean, what has your journey to luxury been like?

[A]

Tumultuous, pretty. There's a lot of extreme highs and lows doing this and a lot of the time you're wondering why you're doing it because of, of it is. It is really difficult sometimes. It's a roller coaster. But yeah, I don't know how on earth to not be so honest answering that question.

[B]

No, I mean, I think the honesty is what people need to hear is like you, you always want something you don't have and you aspire to have the absolute top, especially in a brand that feels so close to you. Like anyone thinking about their brand thinks their brand is great and thinks their brand should be sold by the biggest brands and, you know, worn by the biggest celebrities. But seeing it on the other side, like, clearly there's an ugliness to it.

[A]

I mean, there's ugly parts to everything. Right. Nothing is, nothing's going to be shiny and beautiful all the way through. And yeah, luxury just has a, it has darkness to it too. It's a particularly. It's just a very interesting industry to be part of.

[B]

What has been some of the biggest milestone moments, you know, in your career to becoming a luxury designer.

[A]

Seeing Kate Moss wearing my scarf in Vogue was probably the. Was an amazing moment because it wasn't. I didn't expect it. I had no idea it was gonna happen. And it was the. It's actually a month after I left my full time job. So I was managing a full time job at Harrods for like five years whilst running the brand, which wasn't pleasant. I had no life whatsoever in my 20s and that was the sort of gift to me leaving, leaving that job, which is really nice, had lots of.

[B]

Other ones, but that was a big one. I mean, I want you to talk about your journey to becoming a designer.

[A]

And like the gritty stuff.

[B]

Even like when you were working at apartments, like, you'll never get here and your shit's now sold there.

[A]

Yeah. So there was a department store, I won't name it, that I worked for. It's my first job out of university. I needed to make some money. I was just like, you know, I don't care. I don't care what the work is. It's, you know, I'm going to do some market research and test, have a look at what, what they're selling and understand the customer and all the rest of it wasn't a job I wanted, but I did the cash and they sacked me after a month. And the women that sacked me for absolutely no reason, she just didn't warm to me at all. And they said, no, no, no. What's the word? What word am I looking for? She had no reason to sack me. What's the word I'm looking for?

[B]

I can repeat this, letters, other ways to explain it.

[A]

I'll just say she had no reason to sack me. But she said to me, her departing words were, I know that you've got your little scarf brand. And who knows, maybe one day, Emily, you'll have your stuff stocked here. It's a really patronizing comment, so not with that tone.

[B]

Maybe you'll have it stocked here one day. Goodbye.

[A]

Maybe. I don't know. I think she was just a very bitter individual. But yeah, I was stuck there three years later and a lot of the people that worked there when I worked there were still there and were very surprised to see me, which was quite nice.

[B]

It was quite good feeling, but it was a really good feeling.

[A]

I say what story it was, but it was really good. And that store was really important to me, actually, because I used to go shopping there with my mother as a child. So it was around all of our. Our house was covered in stuff from that store. So it was a really beautiful moment. Actually. That was my moment. That was my proudest moment for the business. I cried when I saw my stuff in there. It was just.

[B]

Yeah, I believe it. I mean, those are the moments when.

[A]

I ask every time, like going there, it's still like, well, I'm like, oh my God, my name's in here still. It's really nice. Doesn't ever go away. It doesn't ever get old. But yeah, that's one of my triumph stories. I do like that one.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's a. That's the story that people need to.

[A]

Turn around and was like, you. I'm sorry, I shouldn't swear, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna get. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[B]

Oh, we drop F bombs all the time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

How did you get into that store?

[A]

The buyer actually saw me. She found me on Instagram, I believe, but I had already been like hashtagging the store as well and all the rest of it. So all my posts that were relevant, that had designs that were relevant to that store had hashtags. So I think that probably helps. Well, back in the day where hashtags used to work, well, I think that's.

[B]

A really a relevant transition. How did you start marketing your business?

[A]

So back, as I said, when social media really, you know, wasn't overly saturated.

[B]

So 10 years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It really works for me. Like all of my buyers, pretty much all of them, bar the ones that I knew personally found me on Instagram. So again, all of my Angelina Jolie commission came from Instagram. Like another massive commission that I had in 2021 came from Instagram, like all of it. So it used to work, used to.

[B]

Really work, and now it doesn't work.

[A]

You have to pay for it to work.

[B]

Interesting. So what has been your experience with the change of socials?

[A]

Absolutely soul destroying. To be honest, it's so hard to. And actually I find that hiring people to do it for you doesn't actually work because actually I know the designs that catch people's eyes. And actually I found a different route to doing it that actually has much more engagement. But again, I've had to just tweak things for like ages and it's just. It's so frustrating. It is so frustrating.

[B]

It's not easy.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think that's a lot of business owners miss is that they're looking for that, like, easy. There's an easy solution, there's an easy path. I could hire someone to pay to do it. Like, nobody gets your brand better and more than you do. No.

[A]

And it's that generally you've got to test loads of things. Like, I'm very much a trial and error person. So I tested tons of different designs, tons of different ads. And actually the ads where that people use the most at the moment do not work for my product. People don't follow, people don't buy. Whereas I post. I am. I.

[B]

What's the word? Upload?

[A]

No, promote. When you promote one particular post and it just flies like everything sells and I get so many likes and followers from it and it doesn't make any sense. Like it's not.

[B]

But what kind of post is it?

[A]

It's just a beautiful design that I have. It's my best selling Design, but it's not got any product linked to it or anything.

[B]

It's just a pattern.

[A]

Yeah. But for some it just goes. It is the best, by far the best performing ad. So actually taking a route that isn't. Yeah, recommended.

[B]

It doesn't make sense. And that's like.

[A]

It doesn't make sense at all. Like I hired somebody to do it for me and we got no traction whatsoever. Like literally nothing.

[B]

And that's the stuff that is actually really hard from my position because I can tell you an educated guess, an educated opinion, like we could create the most expensive, best looking ad and like it doesn't perform and the stuff that performs.

[A]

It doesn't make sense.

[B]

It doesn't make sense.

[A]

It's not logical. There's no logic to it because it's not math.

[B]

It's like, that's why it's like the art of the brand. Like it's this mix of like psychology, science, testing, artistry, like sometimes motion as well.

[A]

That design is so interesting. This design that I did, it was the last design I did for Liberty. It was a collection that I did for them a few years ago. Last collection designer threw and I was like, you know, just test this one. I don't really like it very much, but fine. By far my best selling design of all time. And I realize it's because it's nostalgic to people. People look at that design, they're reminded of their childhood. Like it's a British countryside. Butterflies, orange and purple and yellow design. And it's just for some reason it is, it is extraordinarily best selling. And I have no idea why.

[B]

But what inspired you to design it?

[A]

My childhood. I was in the country at the time and I was like, you know, I'm gonna put all my favorite things together. Fox gloves, like all like really classic British flowers, classic British, British insects. And yeah, it's been a really off piste interesting design that I wasn't expecting.

[B]

I don't think that is that shocking though, because that's, that's storytelling.

[A]

Yeah. But I think, yeah, as you said, like, well, nostalgia is a really interesting thing. And it works.

[B]

It works well, it's storytelling. Like if you, if every person looks at it and they see a memory from their childhood and they get a story that connects to them, that's the highest level of marketing, is true storytelling. It's not like a design that doesn't make sense.

[A]

That looks pretty.

[B]

That looks pretty. If it truly is iconic British symbols from childhood, then that makes sense from why it works. And that also probably drives future collections of maybe through different seasons, what's iconic in different seasons. Because people buy what. If you think about it, like, if you're. If there's 300 scarves and you have to pick one, which is the one you're going to pick, you're going to.

[A]

Pick the one that reminds you of something for the story. The amount of customers I get email me, and they're like, my wife loves hummingbirds because we went on holiday to this destination. I proposed to her there or whatever. Like, it's always something like that. Like, I want to buy this for my partner because it reminds us of a trip that we went on and it was our favorite trip. Like, that is actually the majority of the reason why people buy is because it's something in a design that resonates with a memory.

[B]

So funny. My mom and my aunt, they, like, love hummingbirds, and something about their connection is tied to hummingbirds. And it's gotten to this point where, like, if I see something with hummingbirds, it becomes a part of that larger story that, like, I buy as I travel. So it's. It's. And I feel like cardinals are kind of the same, too. Like, people feel really deeply connected with certain animals that it. It adds to the story. It becomes storytelling.

[A]

Yeah. And it wasn't even an intention for me at the beginning. I haven't ever intentionally gone you. This is a symbolic animal. I'm going to pop it in. It was more just something that was interesting and beautiful to me. To me to look at, basically.

[B]

So that's really interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So why did you start sketching?

[A]

When I was 2, I was drawing fish and spiders when I was 2.

[B]

Wow. And I think that's really interesting because you're. You're quite young for how talented you are, but you've put in the hundreds of thousands of hours because you're sketching textbooks on the side. Like, how. How much art are you doing per week?

[A]

So it's a lot. It goes in periods. So, like this year, for six months, I was illustrating a book, and I was illustrating every day. But I can go for a couple of months and not do anything because I'm focused on the business. So it just depends on what kind of demand. At the moment, I'm doing consulting for various brands as well. So I'm. Yeah, I'm illustrating most days again, which is really nice. But actually, in the last couple of years, it's only been two to three months of the year that I've been illustrating, like, solidly because I do have to run the business as well.

[B]

How do you transition from like doing like an art every day and then doing no art?

[A]

It's not easy. You have. So my staff, the girls that work me, know this really well. I have to go completely off radar when I'm doing the collection because I cannot do both. I have to just cut everything off. All my friends know this as well. For like two weeks at a time. I'll be like, no, please don't contact me because I have to get in the zone. I can't, I cannot complete a design properly unless I have that real space, that really like isolated space. And it sounds very extreme, but it's what works for me because, you know, I've been doing like 25 designs a season for the last like couple of years and it's a lot. It's a lot. I always leave at last minute because that's the only way my brain works.

[B]

And what does the process look like?

[A]

Like, is it like I'm working 19 hour days literally for a month and a half straight. Like I'm sat on my desk and I don't do anything else. You don't.

[B]

But drama.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And you don't like sit around and like, like I like, I find some people, artists journey is like I have to be inspired. I have to wait for that moment of inspiration.

[A]

No, I thought you have to just like you do have to force it sometimes because creativity is not one of those things that just turns up on your step. You have to sit there, go through Pinterest for four hours if you need to go to. I have tons of books. I have books everywhere. So I just have all my books out all over the floor. So. And I have to leave stuff out because it's. Your brain sees things and it pops them in with obviously subconsciously into, into designs and then your brain builds them up. That's how it works. I think from. For me or you take yourself to a gallery, but I think you can find everything on the Internet. And I know that doesn't sound terribly inspiring, but sometimes you just have to get on with it. It's nice to do a trip and.

[B]

Things, but no, no, but I, I wonder like, do you find your inspiration for what you do? Like, you to me seem very like it. It's more things found in like a museum or in like in history. Are those things found on Pinterest you can do?

[A]

So I do have like research weeks and days and I always like do trips abroad and things like that. So one of my best selling designs was from a trip to the south of France. I visited those gorgeous villas, just the baroque, like Italian, French Baroque villas. So, yeah, the baroque Tiger Scarf is the best selling one from that trip. I've got tons of designs from Tripps, so that travel does help a lot. But obviously one isn't, doesn't have a luxury of just going away all the time.

[B]

But how often do you have to design per year?

[A]

Twice. I do two collections per year. Yeah. And I do various other designs throughout the year in between that as well.

[B]

Because you also work for other brands behind the scenes. So you design for brands and they pay for you not to be able to talk about who you're designing for.

[A]

Yeah. So I mean, I will just. Yeah. Harrods is one of my, like, clients and I do some of their work. Obviously I am not at liberty to say what, but I do. I've been designing for them for a long time and they're.

[B]

And like. So you, like, that's really what's interesting is do you feel like your craft and your artistry is going to be taken by AI by big brands like that?

[A]

Yeah, it's been of concern for me recently, I must say, because anybody could use AI and say, look, make a design like Emily Carter's using these elements and it may be able to create something. But I always say that I think the reason people resonate with my work is because you have the artistry, you have the craft and you have the human error in it. With drawing, there's always going to be human error and AI can't quite recreate that. And I don't think AI can create the emotions attached to the art or the story attached. There's always a deep emotion or a deep story that I'm trying to put into something. And I don't think that can be totally.

[B]

I wonder though, like, I agree with you because an Emily Carter design, that's where the brand exists, is it's always gonna be yours from the brand. Like an Amazon brand asking to take your style is a different box. Yes, it exists. But what I'm more interested in is, and correct me if I'm misinformed, you go into a brand house like Harrods and you almost have to like conform as a graphic designer. Like, they have their style, they have their approach and you're like, they have the brief. They have the brief and you're like doing what they do. Opposed, like, could Harrods go and say now with these archives and this style, continue to create designs yeah, but again.

[A]

I always say there's a reason I'm a creative and if somebody did that, then I would just evolve differently. Right. So that's the privilege that you have as a creative. You can always reinvent yourself. You need to.

[B]

That's a really. Yeah, that's an interesting point. Like, where do you see the future of branding changing? You know, like even in your own brand? Like maybe, maybe on the PR stuff, maybe on the marketing stuff. Like, how are you seeing it evolve and change in fashion?

[A]

It's a really interesting question. I'm not quite sure what angle to go with, but I think I feel a pressure at the moment to conform to this kind of modernism. The younger customer, the Gen z customer, the TikTok, and a lot of people that are advisors to the brand are like, you need to make it more bonded. You need to make it more like, for the young customer. And I think there is an element of that. And because a lot of big brands are doing that, they're catering different collections to obviously different markets. But for me, that's not my. That isn't my customer.

[B]

No.

[A]

And actually it doesn't make sense to the brand. I don't want to cheapen the brand or potentially cheapen the brand by, by doing something like that. So I think there's, yeah, there's a lot of conflict there for me as to, you know, whether I try and go into a quite pressurized route. I feel at the moment, I think.

[B]

It'S a really interesting conversation to have because when I look at these big brand houses that are like in quotations, killing it on socials, I don't think they're doing a good job, like Loewe is doing a good job on socials. But I think it's losing the customer that it's built over the past hundred years. And that's a relevant question to discuss.

[A]

Yeah, well, you risk alienating your top clients, Right? You've spent years building this beautiful, beautiful group of really, really wonderful clients that I communicate with on a regular basis. And again, if I cheapened the brand, if I redeemed, reduce the prices, if I change the quality of the product, you would lose all those customers. What have you done all this for? You have to retain those clients. They are your business, they represent your business.

[B]

Do you feel a battle between investors asking for more per quarter and understanding the longevity of a brand?

[A]

So I don't have investment.

[B]

Oh, wow, you did it all yourself.

[A]

Bootstrapped.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

But it's something that I'm considering, but that's the reason I've had a lot of investors want to invest in the brand. That's the reason I haven't taken on investment, because I'm concerned that I would be swayed to do something that I don't want to do.

[B]

Because that's really the pressure in brand is. It's perpetual quarters. How do you. And that's where the conversation on Gen Z's and Millennials, where your brand really isn't one to be having a conversation for a younger audience. It's properly mature in a good way. It's a statement piece. You get at a point in your life where you're worthy of it. That's the way that your brand should be seen. But the pressure of perpetual quarters, you have to broaden who you're selling to.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And that pressure wasn't something that I, I will do it at some point. I just don't feel like it was the right time. I think the brand has to be. It has to be established for a little bit longer. I've only been doing this full time for three years. I launched it a long time ago, but as a full time company. It's only been three years.

[B]

Wow. How do you decide to go full time?

[A]

It didn't really give me an option. It was moving too quickly for me to. To not be full time. So. Yeah. Which is good. That's the way you want it to be.

[B]

So it was when you got canned?

[A]

No, that was the second job. No. So I left Harrods at the time.

[B]

So you left Harrods and you still work with Harrods. The relationship was good. That's awesome.

[A]

Managed to retain the client. Yeah, they're good to work with.

[B]

And so we've had a conversation about PR and I want to dig into modern pr. Do you think it's worth it?

[A]

Well, I've never paid for PR. I've done all of my PR myself through networking, emailing people, DMing people.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

I'm. I have no shame in terms of how many people I contact who are contacting. You know, what have you got to lose? Right. And my team, what I've taught my team to do exactly the same. Find all these people and we'll email them and just.

[B]

Yeah, that's why we're here. Yeah.

[A]

And you know, I have. Well, I was very lucky actually with Vogue. For some reason, someone at Vogue, British Vogue, saw my product. This was years ago. And they then proceeded to request the scarves for pretty much every shoot they were doing. So every month we would be Sending stuff to Vogue because obviously scarves were just easy. They're very easy. You know, you need stuff to have in like accessories for shoots. So. Hence why I was invoked so many times. It was just luck, that one. But again, is it luck or. Yeah.

[B]

So you've never paid for pr?

[A]

No, never had a PR in Ginsey. I've had people try and sell it to me and actually I already, I mean I've been. The Financial Times always does so well as. I love those gift guides, they're so good. And I was like, well, if you can't get me anything better than that, then what am I paying for? And I got that for free, so.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

I just. Yeah.

[B]

So I guess one of the lessons you can learn from Emily Carter is don't be afraid to ask.

[A]

Always. What have you got to lose? Unless you're actually like damaging your reputation in some way, I don't see why you shouldn't ask.

[B]

And how many times have you gone against. I find with women especially there's this like crippling paralyzation of like I can't ask because and the because I'll be.

[A]

Deemed to be this.

[B]

Or like it's almost the fear of resistance, of just asking. Like there's no real detrimental outcome of asking. But like it's just, it's so paralyzing to do it. So how did you overcome that?

[A]

It took a long time. A, because I'm an introvert and B, because I had that in my head as well. It's not natural to me at all. And I think running a business, the best thing about running a business is it pushes you to become a version of yourself that you never could see yourself being. I never saw myself being extroverted or you know, called calling. Like I sent. I was at a point last year, I was sending hundreds of cold emails and called calling a week. I just, I lost all the fear of doing it.

[B]

Because you had to.

[A]

Yeah. And it pushes you to just do things that you would never have done before. And it's great actually. And well, I think when you have to make something work, you don't have a choice. So I think it's anything more than that.

[B]

We have a lot of small business owners or like medium sized business owners that listen and consume this content. What has been some moments when you look back that have been those, those stepping stones to where you are now.

[A]

So I think it was, I mean 2022 and 2021 actually were amazing years. And I got all of the store like Selfridges and Liberty placed orders within the same month. Then I had a Kate Moss and then Angelina Jolie and it was just an incremental. Just everything just snowballed from there.

[B]

Holy shit. This is great.

[A]

It was a lot for like a couple of months. And then I won two awards. And again, I don. Like to talk about the awards too much, but I will say it has a bad rep. The Forbes award, the Forbes under 30 award. But the people that I met through that have changed my life and they are my best friends. And having that group of like, people that all around businesses, I don't know what. I genuinely don't know what I would have done in the last couple of years had I not had that network. And we, I mean, we see each other every other day, basically. Wow. Like, we're all always hanging out, always doing dinner parties, always on the phone, like, asking advice from each other. There's a group of about 20 of us in London and I have never. It's the kind of friendship you never expect to have in your. In your adult life. So that's, that's the point that I want to make with that award. Because again, having a community of people that get what you're doing or in some respect, understand what it's like running a business, you need that. Well, stay a founder, you need that.

[B]

But we don't talk about that. Also, you gotta fire your friends and make space for ones that are gonna help you for this chapter in your life.

[A]

Yes. Or just understand that not everyone is gonna get it and that's okay too.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I think everybody's very keen to be very kind of judgmental about whether people get it, whether people see the vision or not. And actually people aren't gonna see your vision. That's the whole point of it being yours. So again, I don't think there's any need to get rid of people from your life, but actually investing in people that really understand it helps. It helps. It helps so much.

[B]

And you have to just be. You have to accept it. Like, it just. It is what it is. Like, some people can be lucky to have friends for their whole life that knew that when they were kids. And then there's other people where that just doesn't make sense.

[A]

You change too much as a person.

[B]

But, like, that's okay.

[A]

And that's okay. It's a good thing.

[B]

It's a good thing.

[A]

I would say I've changed an enormous amount. I'm not the same person as I was even five years ago. And that's Not a bad thing. It's just.

[B]

It is what it is.

[A]

You just go through different stages in life at different times.

[B]

It's all about what you want too. Right? Like, I want to continue to grow and evolve every year. One of my favorite quotes is like, you overestimate what you can do in one year and underestimate what you can do in 10. And by focusing on growth and evolution, the goal is you should bring on more people. But when you bring on. We don't let go of some that no longer suit. Like, we have a capped amount of time. So just understanding how to best use your time and networking and investing in the network, that's gonna help you get to where you wanna go can be the best use of time. And that's okay.

[A]

Yeah, I think just a point on that. I think going with the flow of it all as well, not clinging to situations that are no longer aligning with you. And I think I was so. Yeah, I was always one to do that because I didn't want things to change. And actually, you've just got to. You've got to accept that things are gonna change and just so true. Just let it go.

[B]

So you got Forbes under 40. Sorry, 30.

[A]

That's the one.

[B]

Yes. So you got Forbes 30 under 30. How did you get that?

[A]

A friend of mine applied. You have to be nominated. So I was just nominated. It was just somebody I knew in the past had won it, and it was just on my list to also apply at some point. I never thought that I would actually get it. It was just. I just left Harrods and I was like, why don't I apply for a bunch of awards and see if I can boost my credibility as a brand and as a designer? And. And there we are. It was. Yeah, it was one of the best things that's ever happened in my life. And it's not because of the award. It is because of the people that went through it. I cannot explain. It's so special.

[B]

I love that you touched on that. Because it's something that I say in a different way in that people look for ROI in, like, where it's obvious and it's often very difficult.

[A]

That's what I want to emphasize, to.

[B]

Find the direct ROI. Like, it's not that Forbes 30 under 30 resulted in a massive business, but even what it. What it represents, but it's what you get from it indirectly.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Like, and. And those are the. That's the joy of life. That, like, what is it worth? Like, what is it? If you were to put a dollar value on the front. The networking connections you've made, the friendships you made, like, what is that worth to you? And it's, it's.

[A]

You cannot value it. That's the thing, can you?

[B]

Because it changes your life and it changes your.

[A]

Cannot imagine what my life would have been like without those people. And I think. I think we all feel the same about each other. We had this conversation last night, actually. It was just. It's really beautiful. It's something else.

[B]

And that's what. But those are the things that business owners need to think about is like, take. Not that 30 under 30 is risk, but broadening this concept, like, take risk of the comfortable, like meeting other people, doing things that feel uncomfortable because you're not gonna see right away what the outcome's gonna be. And it's going to change your personal brand and your business brand in ways that are. You can't even draw a line on it. Like, that's been my experience. Tomorrow I'm flying to Cosmopolitan in Netherlands. I got an amazing day ahead of me. And it's all because of. Nine months ago, I decided to go to Korea. And if I was to say, okay, three months after Korea, like, okay, what's the roi? Maybe I could tie some things. But what is that worth in my life? When you look back on your life, what is it worth? You can't. You cannot place.

[A]

No, I have a little mind map that I drew, a little diagram I drew like on my wall. And it's. It's just of a kind of a snake. A snakey kind of. Yeah, of course. And. But it, it represents. I put dots along it. Everything, Everything that you do, Everything that you do has a result of some sort. Anything that you don't do. So again, when you're hitting really hard times like I had this year, it's a recession. It is not easy. It's not. Not been an easy year. And there have been points where I thought, just want to shut the business. I might stress my mental health cannot keep doing this. But I had to look at that and go, okay, but I just need to keep doing little things. Little things, Little things. Even if it's the smallest thing every day, it all matters. And the only thing you need to do is just keep doing.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I think, as you said, the most extraordinary things come from the most inextraordinary interactions a lot of the time.

[B]

And it's not also supposed to make sense. And if you.

[A]

Doesn't make sense.

[B]

And if you.

[A]

It's not. It's not logical. No, never logical.

[B]

When I even think about the agency world, which is a bit different than selling a product, it's the, I've only learned from the toughest clients. Like, I've only ever learned from like the biggest mess ups from like myself or my team, which I have to own because it's still me. That's my, it's my responsibility. And it's like you want the life of not having to deal with that tough conversation or that difficult client or whatever happened. But, but without going through those moments, you don't learn the possibility or the what if of what could happen. And it shapes you in a different way.

[A]

I mean, one of my favorite humans is Jamie Kernliem, obviously cosmetics founder. And she always says rejection is redirection. And I have that in my head the whole time because the amount of rejections that you get, the amount of things that fall through. I had six deals fall through in two weeks this year. And it was just, I was just, I didn't know what to do with myself. But looking back on it now, I actually got most of those deals back again, but in a better way. And you just have to sometimes wait for that to happen. But it, but it's also, you can't see it in the moment, but you.

[B]

Also, sometimes it's very difficult. Like in the moment you can't see this. But what's worth hearing, whether you're going through it or when it happens, is sometimes it's not meant to be the way that you think it's gonna be. Like, you want the convenience, you want the ease of it, but it takes time to come back and say, okay, but you probably were like at wit's end after 6 nos, it was the.

[A]

Last start of this year, was honestly soul destroying. And something really unpleasant happened with quite a prolific person in the industry as well. And I honestly sat with myself and was like, this must be because I shouldn't be doing this anymore. Like all of the signs are telling me that I shouldn't be doing this anymore. And then I actually, again, it's one of my friends that has a business and I watched her last year, I thought about this. She just kept going every step back. She got back up again, got back up again. And now the business is doing extremely well. And I just had that in my head of like, no, it's, I think it's not a, it's actually a choice. I either choose to give up or I don't. And I make it the right decision. If I choose to Continue. Actually, the rest of it is irrelevant.

[B]

And the reason why I want to have more of these conversations is social media allows everything to be a highlight reel. Like, I've also had a tough year, too, and I've had many tough years or tough moments where you would never see the wiser online. And that's a part of the game. A part of the game is to put on the mask, to keep throwing out, checking out content, regardless of where your business is at, keep the facade going. But it's tough when you're on the other side of the business owner because you're like, I'm the only one going through this. Nobody else is struggling with this. And it's a tough divide being a business owner when you're going through the tough time, to also be like, hey, if you're going through this, I'm going through this too, because I'm also a business owner. And, like, I also. Like, a whole part of it is positioning is playing poker.

[A]

Yeah. Pivoting all the time.

[B]

What else can I do?

[A]

How else can I bring in money? What else can we do?

[B]

Pivot was, like, the word of the year.

[A]

Five times a year, I've launched another company because I had to go into services because, like, wholesale just crashed. And it's just like, you know, the whole industry just fell apart. What are you supposed to do? Like, you know, I'm very grateful that we're still here. Like, that's all you gotta be grateful for at this point.

[B]

No, so true. So true. How did you get into your designs?

[A]

So it's actually from a child. I was an only child, and I spent most of my childhood in the garden looking at bugs and finding creatures and things like that and drawing them. So it is from a pure. It's very nostalgic what I do. It's just a pure representation of my inner child and who I grew up being, and actually my love of nature, wanting to be a biologist when I was younger. So that's where it all comes from.

[B]

Really Very cool. And I ask everybody that comes on the podcast, what is a brand to you?

[A]

I don't know how to answer that.

[B]

I know it's a big question, but it's designed intentionally to baby question. So I find it really fascinating how people answer it.

[A]

For me, it was. It was a representation of. Of everything that mattered to me and that everything that I loved and I loved looking at and everything that I'd experienced in my life. Every design that I create is a representation of a memory or a feeling. And I Think that's what people need to buy into these days. I think that's what matters to people is buying into stories, buying into. Yeah, their. Their memories and. Yeah, that's what it. That's what it. That's why I did it. I think that's what art is to me.

[B]

Cool. Brandy is there.

[A]

That's not probably the best answer, but.

[B]

Don'T be so self deprecating. It was a great answer.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where can people find you?

[A]

Instagram, emilycasterlondon. And I've also got an illustration page. Emily Carter Studio. That's one of my services. Yeah. And online. Anywhere.

[B]

And where can people buy your products?

[A]

Websites, emilycarsh.co.uk, liberty seem to be in Fortnum Mason, Harvey Nichols, Gary Zafayette. So.

[B]

And if you're not in the uk, where can people buy your stuff?

[A]

Hong Kong and Doha at the moment.

[B]

Interesting. So not North America.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

This is an exclusive interview. She is the highest event. She also does rowing in the River Times. I don't know if you heard that part of the episode. It's high end lady with me. Lastly, what do you sell?

[A]

I sell silk accessories and home decor and stationery as well. But yeah, printed accessories, luxury printed accessories.

[B]

And what is, what. What do you want to do when you grow up?

[A]

Draw bugs, draw animals, draw wildlife. It's the love of my life. Yeah.

[B]

I really hope that for you.

[A]

Who is like the worst?

[B]

Who is the ultimate like bug designer that you could like, collab with?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

We should know, like, what can we manifest a brand? Maybe you could like, redo the character.

[A]

I never actually had somebody that I like aspired to be either. I didn't really have like sort of Vivien Wester, sort of McQueen. I loved McQueen. I loved. He was probably the only one. But yeah, it was just. It was just what I loved.

[B]

Interesting. Well, maybe because she doesn't exist yet.

[A]

Yeah. Well, thank you. I had to create her, so there you go.

[B]

Well, thank you for coming to Dublin.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me. It's been so nice.