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- [00:00]
A
All right, so we just got back from Ireland. Fun fact.
- [00:05]
B
Yes.
- [00:06]
A
We did the Guinness Irish tour and it is the number one tourist attraction in Ireland. So we are talking about the iconic brand that is Guinness today.
- [00:16]
B
What a brand. What a brand. What a brand.
- [00:18]
A
What a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand. What a mighty good brand.
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B
And imagine that it is a brand that is the number one tourist attraction in a country. Yeah, that is, that is brand status.
- [00:36]
A
That's brand is religion. That's like the Mecca of branding. Well, it's interesting. The moment that we had got, we had landed and we had to go through customs in Ireland. I didn't know this before going to Trinity College library. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for. But that the Guinness heart is actually the national icon. Is actually the national icon of Ireland. And the reason why I took a photo of it at security is I was so blown away that Guinness represents iconically how Ireland sees itself. Like from an emblem standpoint.
- [01:20]
B
Yeah, I didn't really, I never, I didn't really resonate as much with you on that. Like it's on the currency. Like they use, like using a maple leaf.
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A
I didn't know that.
- [01:28]
B
It's like using a maple leaf.
- [01:29]
A
I didn't, I didn't know that. I saw it as, as, because it's like you don't usually see countries use something like a harp. You know what I mean? Like, it's usually something that's in nature, not something that's like crafted.
- [01:42]
B
Okay.
- [01:43]
A
I don't know. Just. All right, well that's, I, I thought was interesting. So let me know if you think that's interesting next. But I've got some interesting facts on Guinness before we, we roll into it. All right, so Guinness is a 200 year old brand started in 1759. And when they had acquired their lo. Their iconic location at St. James Gate, which is where the Guinness factory is still today, in fact, the Guinness tour, that the number one tourist attraction in Ireland is the old factory that they like redid into like really this like beer Willy Wonka thing. It's crazy. It's like eight floors and. But when they signed the lease in, I'm Gonna tell you, one December 31st in 1759, they signed a 9,000 year lease to keep that property.
- [02:40]
B
Wow.
- [02:41]
A
So in 1759 they knew they were on to something.
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B
That's hilarious.
- [02:46]
A
Is that crazy? A 9,000 year lease. But it's a pretty iconic location in Dublin. So let's get Into Guinness.
- [02:54]
B
Yeah. Well, clearly from the videos, you didn't enjoy the taste.
- [02:58]
A
I did not.
- [02:59]
B
How do you explain that something that doesn't taste well can be so popular?
- [03:04]
A
Well, I mean, I'm, I. I don't think that I'm the gold standard of beer taste buds. Beer really isn't for me. Never has been for me. I mean, my father, literally, I think if you like analyzed, his blood is like 30% Guinness. So it's. I can. There's a cult following for this product. People love it. It's very unique. It's one of a kind. I don't think there's anything else that's really like it. Right.
- [03:24]
B
No, there's lots of stout beers. It's called. So. But Guinness is the iconic one. Like, there's in different Irish cities, they have their own stouts. Cork has one.
- [03:33]
A
And of that dark with the light topic.
- [03:36]
B
But the stout, I think for North Americans who grow up, like, they're not really introduced to stout in high school.
- [03:42]
A
Yeah.
- [03:43]
B
Or even in university. Like, nobody brings it at university. And I remember my first one I had when I was in the military. I didn't like it at the pub, you know, but then it's funny and I think you resonate with this. I became a fan of it is when I was flying through Ireland going to a tour in the military, and I was coming back actually, and we stopped in Shannon Island Airport and we all had a Guinness there. And I think the ceremony of it just made me always love Guinness after that because I had done it in Ireland after it. So the story of it being the Irish drink is what?
- [04:18]
A
Well, everyone says that Guinness is better in Ireland.
- [04:21]
B
Yeah.
- [04:22]
A
So maybe that also contributed to. Could be your experience. But I. But I also think that's what Rory Sutherland talks about is if stout is a specific Irish beverage based on the ingredients that are there and you needing maybe a more heartier drink for that weather, it makes sense that it tastes better where it's from. Right. Not because something about it is better, just because when you're drinking something that's been forged by its environment and enjoyed because of the environment that those who enjoy it are consuming, it does elevate the experience.
- [05:00]
B
So what did you think of the tour?
- [05:03]
A
My favorite part of the tour was the advertising floor, actually. I think if I took a step back, if I was to rate it, number one was the advertising floor. I thought it was so cool to see how Guinness has branded over the years and how ahead of the curve they were during their earlier years when it was harder to put. Push the boundaries, be as bold, be as dynamic in your campaigns. I know we'll get into that. The other thing I thought was really interesting was when we first entered in and they. They make it a museum, and they break down each step into being a piece of art. Like, I really enjoyed, like, seeing the wheat with, like, the light and moving through those rooms.
- [05:45]
B
It was like a gladiator moment.
- [05:47]
A
It really was a gladiator. And there was nobody there, which was awesome.
- [05:49]
B
That's true. No, they, they, they. They primed you for what you were doing, right, by taking, like, they. They took you on a journey.
- [05:56]
A
Yeah. It was interesting doing the Guinness tour. I booked it before we got there, and I didn't know that it was the number one tourist attraction in Ireland. I actually didn't know what to expect. I just knew that it felt quintessentially Irish to go to Dublin and to do the Guinness tour. Because to me, Guinness has always been an iconic brand. Probably because my father has always loved the beer. So I really didn't know what to expect. But what I was really impressed with and blown away is it. It surpassed my expectations because I had none. And it reinforced why the brand is iconic, because they spend and they focus on experience. And that comes to. Even the way that they set up the pour and how it. How it was presented in the bar. But you can tell that that same level of thinking and creativity was put into how they designed the full experience. And really no dollar was saved. Like, they made this museum quality to experience the brand. And I think that goes hand in hand with being iconic, is understanding the importance of experience and branding.
- [07:05]
B
I'm actually thinking of it now. I wonder if on the kind of the plan for this tour, because when you think of it, they've taken you perfectly through every step. There's the old facade, but then you enter, and then you go on a journey that's artistic, that lets you understand where it came from. And then you see some advertising. Like, they build you look at the steps they take you to, and then it's like. Then they allow you to drink one, right? And then they teach you to pour one. And then the last step is to be in the social environment where you'll drink it in the future. Like, it's a very.
- [07:38]
A
Well, I think we should break that down a bit slower because that is a really brilliant point. So you come in and it's first the museum, and then you go on to the museum is actually. I think it was like two floors. It was quite robust. And you go through different. Like it's all of the 12 steps for creating a Guinness beer which is quite robust because it's a very specific process. They really explain like the craft that goes into it. Like there's daily Guinness tasters. Like their full time job is to like ensure that the batch is consistent. And they drink out of these like really cute mini Guinness glasses, which I'm sure you know right away because the glass is so iconic. And then once you go through the museum, then you get to the tasting floor and this is when it really was like I met. I'm at the Willy Wonka factory for. For Guinness. Because even the way they bring you into that room, it was like became instantly like super modern. They had those like big drums with like the four core smelling.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But it was very Willy Wonka. Like it was like you're ushered in. It's like white light like from. Compared to a factory contrast that you've seen like feeling more like old.
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B
Yeah. But it's like they brought you into a modern laboratory.
- [08:52]
A
Yes.
- [08:53]
B
In this future.
- [08:54]
A
And they have like all the poor stations where they're like pouring these cute mini glasses. Then they usher you into this like makeshift old. Almost like headmaster's office.
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B
Yeah.
- [09:04]
A
They teach you the ceremony, the story. They teach you how to say Cilantro. Cilantia in Irish. And you're basically kind of ceremoniously after you've gone to the tour, had your first mini Guinness and then you leave the tasting and then you go to the next floor, which is the advertising floor. And the advertising floor, it shows why Guinness was iconic. I do want to come back to that, but I'll just finish the floors. And then after the, after the Guinness floor, you go to the putting your selfie. They call it a stoutie. So a selfie on your pint of beer. Which was really funny to me because to me, when I saw that, I wasn't really that wowed by it. Like to me I'm like, this feels very amusement parky. Like I. This was like a thing where I'm like, this of all the things. Isn't that cool? But it's crazy how that was what I got probably the most response to on social media. And people were just like, no way. Like, you gotta be kidding me. And I'm like, really? Like. But they did use a laser printer on from.
- [10:13]
B
I thought, I thought it was actually one of the more brilliant things because one, it's creating digital shareable moments.
- [10:19]
A
Yeah, I guess.
- [10:20]
B
Right. Because you're like, you can go into the Guinness thing, but what are you gonna share on social media that people will comment? Or like, probably your face.
- [10:27]
A
Yeah, well, you're dead on.
- [10:29]
B
But your face on top of. Because it takes so long to pour, it's like, you couldn't do that on a Coors Light because the foam, you know what I mean, it's so bubbly and it just disappears. Right. It's actually reinforcing that it's a stout beer.
- [10:40]
A
Interesting, right?
- [10:42]
B
And creating a magical moment because it's actually like malt spray they put on top of the beige foam. So it's actually part of the beer, what's left over in the bottom. And so they spray your photo on the thing. Like, I thought it was brilliant, but I know what you mean about being kitschy, but it actually was just brilliant. And you got to drink a beer. Like, so you pour you a beer and it's got your picture on it and you're drinking it, you see it.
- [11:06]
A
I will say that one was the best Guinness I drank was the one of me piecing it out. So after we do the stoutie, the selfie stoutie, then you go up to. To where they teach you how to pour. And this is a whole. It's a six step process. And they walk you through each step. And once you're done, you're pouring, you get an official certificate that you know how to now pour a Guinness beer. And you were horrible at this.
- [11:36]
B
I wasn't paying attention.
- [11:37]
A
You were so bad at it. But I had learned how to pour a Guinness back in my serving days, so.
- [11:43]
B
So there's six steps. But I thought that was amazing because now they're reinforcing that this product is special, that there has to be a way to deliver it to a glass that must be followed. Like, it's making everybody see how special it is. And it takes time.
- [11:58]
A
It stops you in your tour of, like, now that you've seen how we make it, now that you've seen how it. How we sold it, now you're gonna learn how important it is to receive it. And like the care that we went in, to me, it's like, this is. This is the masterclass. If you want to be an iconic brand, to follow is creating steps of care in order to receive the product. It makes it a ceremony, right? And that's what great branding is all about.
- [12:28]
B
Certainly you'll remember it. And anytime you go into a bar, it increases the likelihood. But then I even like how they finished it off with like a rooftop.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah. So that was the last stages you go. Actually, no, it was three restaurants. So after you now have drank two in a mini glasses of beer pints, you now go to a floor where the entire restaurants are made with Guinness. So it's like Guinness steak, Guinness pie, Guinness stew, Guinness ice cream, Guinness cake, Guinness bread. And it also kind of speaks to how Guinness has really infiltrated Irish cuisine, which is also super fascinating and iconic because we had gone even throughout Dublin and out of Dublin. Guinness stew, Guinness bread. It's, it's a thing.
- [13:22]
B
But what I liked about that last level and I, I, I bet you there's something intellectual behind it or is that it takes you from the experience of seeing the wheat being grown, right to now being at the consumer end of the brand, which is you're buying it in a bar, in a social environment. So you're now like you've taken them to every step. So there's, you're relating it not just to, hey, this is a nice iconic thing to learn about. It's actually trying to pattern it into your behavior Total.
- [13:51]
A
But before you get. Because the last step is this like insane Sky Bar and you can see all of Dublin. It's one of the highest points in Dublin because there's not many skyscrapers or high rises in Dublin. And you, it's a full panoramic view. So it's a 360 glass dome. It's, it's beautiful. It gives you the full view of the city. And that's where you're to your point where you're ending in how the beer is, is consumed, which is like that, that social setting and you actually get a ticket to get a free beer at the sky bar. So by the end of your tour, you've had three to four Guinnesses. But you're right. But what I think is interesting before you get to that level is it's also Guinness is food. So before, like where you end where it's the most obvious to have a Guinness, but before you get to that step, it's, you can also cook with this. So that's where I found it was like, it was very kind of intelligently American. You know, like, it's like all the stages and steps your brain goes through before you consume it. Because if the restaurant floor was after the bar floor, it wouldn't prime your brain for like where the, where the natural end is which is to drink it. So I remember before we didn't stop to eat, but we had, when we went through that floor, it was like, this is really Interesting look at all the ways that we can consume it before we drink it. So it made it more interesting. I totally agree.
- [15:21]
B
So why do you think it's so successful? I guess. Or let's. You want to go back to the advertising floor and talk? Let's talk about why Guinness's advertising was so good and how that led to an amazing brand.
- [15:35]
A
Well, that's where I want you to have your line on the. The. Because I don't want to take it. Like, money alone doesn't buy great stories.
- [15:45]
B
Something.
- [15:46]
A
Let's try about the advertising floor.
- [15:50]
B
Oh, okay.
- [15:51]
A
Let's talk about the advertising floor. And I thought we had a conversation about this afterwards. And you brought up a really brilliant point.
- [16:00]
B
Obviously, when we travel, we look at the country to see what stories it tells and what brands it does. And when we were discussing how interesting and amazing a story Guinness was, I was like, there are so many brands that are spending tons of money, but they're not making good stories. They're just making crappy stories. Right. And so investing in a good story is part of an amazing brand. But more money doesn't make stories. It just makes more shitty stories.
- [16:30]
A
Yeah. What I found interesting about Guinness and its approach to advertising is its connection it made with animals. I found that really fascinating, especially in analyzing Irish culture and seeing the landscape. What's really interesting about Ireland is topographically, it feels very similar. Like, you can be driving for hours, and you don't get that sense of, like, it's really changing. Like, it's very green, it's very pastoral, it's very kind of rolling, but it's really kind of the same three tones. Like, it's gray, it's green, and it's white, you know? And what's interesting about the animals that Guinness chose to align with were exotic and colorful, and they brought color into the Irish landscape by connecting with pubs and leveraging almost the side of their wall. They actually had a name for it. We were in one of the small, and I think it was in Sligo, and I had asked, you know, how much WB8 stuff is here in Sligo that we could go check out. And they're like, oh, there's not much. You'll only see it on. And they had a word for, like, how you advertise on the end of a butt of a building. And what was really interesting for me is as you're driving through these small towns and these villages, those Guinness ads of the colorful toucans really stood out as a contrast to what you see in that Country.
- [17:58]
B
Yeah. Jumping into the advertising, like the word stout is. Is also an adjective for kind of strong and resilient. And you know, it's not flashy.
- [18:08]
A
Yeah, Right.
- [18:08]
B
And so it's a stout beer. So it's kind of a beer you have to help you get through a difficult climate. And so. Right. But I think what they were angling on is like this is like a little bit of color and in kind of a dreary place. And so drinking your Guinness gave you that smile at the end of the day. And so then they flash color on dull palates.
- [18:31]
A
Well, that's really what Guinness was. It was a luxury for the working class. And that's where we had broken down ceremony. You had said this, that going through the time it took to pour it, the time it took to get it, the experience that that hard working person, like that ceremony at the end of the day was a gift.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah. The time thing, again, people have talked about it, but the fact that the customer knows it takes time to make it makes it seem more valuable to them psychologically when they get that.
- [19:04]
A
But it's still simple enough that they're not feeling fancy. And there's such a push against the Irish culture of like not feeling or seeming better, you know. And so it took time. Like it was a treat, but it wasn't beyond or above what was accepted as like a pleasantry at the end of your day. And a lot of the advertisements focused on strength. It focused on making you stronger, making you more resilient, which when you live a tough life is that ultimate. Is the ultimate thing to have is health and strength.
- [19:39]
B
Kind of at the core of the Guinness story you touched on, there is. It's not, it's not being flashy or pretty. It's like this is a tough life. And here's something that makes it better, you know, like, it's just not flashy, just. It's just delivered at a cultural level that everybody can understand.
- [19:56]
A
And the Toucans, they were. They were executed so like perfectly. Like I've always loved the Guinness Toucans and it's it. And they had really cool seals and they. All of their stuff that they had, they had done over the years, it felt very colorful. I would actually would be interested to know if that's kind of where or if the same person that worked on like the retro cereals worked on the, the Guinness kind of branding. Because it feels very fruit loopy. It feels very Kellogg's Y. Like it has that like that element of color.
- [20:31]
B
You're not, you're not being racist here and saying that they did Lucky Charms because, you know, like, we can't do that to the Irish.
- [20:37]
A
No, I actually, I didn't even think about that. But that is hilarious. I was thinking more of the, like the retro feel ones. That's hilarious. Oh my God, that is so good.
- [20:47]
B
But the seal actually had a beach ball. That was colorful.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah.
- [20:49]
B
But I think we should talk about that campaign with the bicycle and the fish because I wasn't that aware of it. But you wouldn't have associated innovation and risk taking with a stout beer.
- [21:01]
A
Well, explain. Yeah, explain that activation.
- [21:04]
B
Well, they have this beautiful model set up of a fish riding on a bicycle and it's pedaling and it's, you know, it's a well done piece of art in the, on the tour. But then when you read what happened is Guinness, you know, in the 70s or 80s, I don't even when it was came up with a campaign. And this is where it's, it's brilliant in that it had nothing to do with wokeness, but it had something to do with empowerment. Because I think they said like a woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle.
- [21:34]
A
That was it. That was the exact campaign.
- [21:36]
B
Right. And like, just interesting. Like it just makes you think about it. But it's, it's, it just empowers women to consider that Guinness as something they can drink.
- [21:46]
A
Like, well, it shows you what was going on at the time. Right. And I think that that message was really important for the dynamics of the time because that was overlapped when Marlboro was the first cigarette company to go all in on masculinity and it became the number one cigarette company for females. It was this, this breakthrough of women are consumers for masculine products and we need to find a way to communicate to them so that we get their market share. Because women didn't want to just drink gin and tonics. Like there were women that wanted to drink a hearty beer. And that's where. Because also Guinness was being served to pregnant mothers. Right. So there was this kind of like this. They weren't really communicating.
- [22:33]
B
Nursing mothers, it might be, but it was pregnant or nursing. But one of the two, because it.
- [22:39]
A
Was like it was medicinal. Right. Like it actually had nutritional value.
- [22:42]
B
Yeah.
- [22:43]
A
And calories was what they were saying. Yeah. But I, what I also thought was like, what I really liked to, to wrap up the advertising. What I liked about what Guinness did is they, they, they entered into the zeitgeist and, and culture and a lot of the Stuff that they were displaying on the advertising floor was the homewares that they made. Like, they made really high quality. What is it? It's like, it starts with a C. Like C. Like the stuff you bake.
- [23:15]
B
Casseroles in a casserole dish. Yeah, Cookware.
- [23:19]
A
It's called like a corral.
- [23:21]
B
Okay. I don't know.
- [23:22]
A
Anyways, so they would create these like high, like high end casserole dishes and like creamer pours and different things that would go in the house that women would be proud of to serve with that were branded in Guinness. And funny enough, even when you were talking to me yesterday about redoing the office, at my office, you were like, you should get an iconic old fridge. Budweiser used to make them, Coca Cola used to make them. And you can tell that there was this period of time where brands were investing in quality home goods or home decor so that the brand lived in the house. And you had this sense of loyalty because that was your cookware you were using. And it, it the association between like basically quality swagger and brand product makes you more brand loyal because you're using it three times a week to serve your family.
- [24:14]
B
Well, what's fascinating to me about that fish on a bicycle, that I'd love to understand because it could be some of the best marketing ever, because they essentially said to females who were empowerment movement, right in the 70s, they just created a comical comparison to that would make them laugh. But it almost like was giving females permission for their men to have beer or permission for them to have it. Like, it just created allies without pandering to anything. Like, I think it just.
- [24:46]
A
No, without tearing anyone down because it was so like there's a cheekiness to it, you know, it's funny, you know.
- [24:53]
B
So the Irish women would laugh at that and go, yeah, yeah, exactly right, Go have your Guinness. You know, it's almost like permission.
- [25:01]
A
You're right. You're totally right.
- [25:03]
B
Kind of interesting.
- [25:04]
A
It's not bold enough that the, the brand is telling a group what to do or how to think, but they're providing that cheekiness that is iconic within a female group. But it also makes men not angry or hate the brand because they're like, that was good, you know, like, it was well executed and the Irish have a good sense of humor, you know. And like, I think that that is. You're right. That was a bang on creative campaign. The other thing though, that I wanted to touch on is how why Guinness became iconic. Right? Because it's one thing for a brand to have status within a country, but it's another for it to kind of elevate and go beyond that and get, you know, mass iconic status. And that to me is, is Guinness is a perfect brand example of that.
- [25:52]
B
Yeah. I think the insight is you can have the best brand in your neighborhood, region or country. It doesn't mean it's going to be an international brand.
- [26:00]
A
Right.
- [26:01]
B
You know, the best, the best beer in Slovakia isn't known to everybody. Right. So there has to be. So what we were interested in is how did it go from like a kind of an iconic national brand with cute advertising into an international dominant player? Right. And I think what we were talking about is it benefited from unintentional delivery systems which were Irish pubs that were popping up everywhere.
- [26:26]
A
No, I thought that was, it was a really interesting point because it made me relook at countries as brands and how brands, if you associate to a country's branding image, can allow you to elevate to a different branding standard. And I don't think enough brands that are aligned with a cultural feeling or let me take a step back, there's two ways to take away from that. One is if you have a product that can be aligned to a country's iconic status or brand status and you're seeing it trend on the up, that's a great way to ride a wave, to access something much bigger. So like a country like Poland, you know, Poland is making a lot of headlines, is on its way up. Something that's tied as a brand or a business that can be tied to Poland's iconic heritage. Could be a good gameplay in the next five to 10 years to, to start riding like an icon status because many brands, Sriracha being one of them for Thailand, become more iconic when they're tied to a country.
- [27:36]
B
Yeah, it's interesting to, to a story. And, and what I, when we were thinking about Guinness, it's like, okay, how did this beer that actually doesn't taste that good to most people in the first time actually become something? And it's because it authentically nailed Irish culture and its placement in that. But then it benefited from the creation of Irish pubs. Like, there's a theme. There's an Irish pub in every major city in the world. And why is that? Because it's people. People enjoy the feeling of an Irish pub and its authenticity. And central to an Irish pub would be this iconic Irish brand that takes a long time to pour. And, and so that became an international distribution network associated with a strong brand. So it won't happen to everybody. But it was an amazing. I think that's why it works so well.
- [28:23]
A
But it posed the question. It poses the question that does. Is Guinness iconic or was it that Irish pubs are iconic and they were a facet of an Irish pub in Ireland, that they therefore grew to international cult status? Like, that's an interesting question to pose because Irish pubs is. What's actually iconic in order for Guinness to be world renowned is because everyone knows the Irish love to drink and they have a great pub setting. So it's. It's kind of. It's interesting. It's a bit of a chicken or the eye conversation. Is, is it Guinness or is it Irish pub and is it Guinness? Because Irish pubs are a thing.
- [29:11]
B
I think it's great product and brand taking advantage of distribution channels. So without the one, you wouldn't have the two. So it's. It's great.
- [29:21]
A
Both. Yeah. But what I really thought was, was the, the iconicness, though, of Irish pubs is worth analyzing further. And you taught me about this, where there's always a look and feel to an Irish pub. Right. It's not something like, you know, like a Thai restaurant or like a Vietnamese restaurant where there's almost a lack of.
- [29:43]
B
Consistency in those, except that's kitchen table chairs everywhere.
- [29:46]
A
And they have the funniest names, like shout out to the Thai and Vietnamese restaurants. They have the funniest names. But there's almost like a lack of standardization in Italian or French or Vietnamese or Thai. But Irish pubs always look and feel the same way, and there's actually a reason for that. So. So what's really cool about Irish pubs is that typically when they're commissioned, they actually have an Irish team of carpenters that come from Ireland.
- [30:13]
B
So there are Irish pubs, which in Ireland feel like Irish pubs. And then they opened Irish pubs all around the world, and in a lot of places, they just used local contractors. And for the most part, they don't feel like Irish pubs. But the most successful Irish pubs around the world are ones where they bring Irish contractors, carpenters in, they go back, they build the pubs in Ireland, ship them back, and actually have that full Irish feel.
- [30:41]
A
Just say that again, because that really made no sense.
- [30:43]
B
Huh?
- [30:43]
A
Like that when you're saying that the Irish, they ship them in, they ship them back, they ship like, oh.
- [30:50]
B
I don't even know if we need to get down there that much. But I think it's really cool. Yeah. So I think the story you're getting at behind Irish pubs is that there are some that feel really authentic and amazing. And it's not just that they're recreating what it looks like in Ireland. They're actually bringing Irish carpenters over to New York City to map out the place, to draw it out, fly them back, and then build the pub and all of the furniture with Irish wood and craftsmanship, Right? And then put it in a sea container, ship it over, and then install it in, you know, Soho in New York City or in Chicago.
- [31:29]
A
But it's like Irish wood. Irish carpenters, like, it's a full. It's an Irish pub, so it's trying.
- [31:34]
B
To capture what we think and feel like. It's so clear to people what an Irish pub should feel like as a place to go and gather and have a drink at the end.
- [31:44]
A
I think that's the best thing they did for their tourism, too, because we really have a feel for Ireland. Scotland feels more distant to me. You know, like, I have some kind of. Is it kind of like Ireland? You know, like. But it's Irish pubs because they invested in having that level of care and execution, has a very clear brand standard in my mind, which I thought was really fascinating. But.
- [32:06]
B
And then central to any Irish pub, like, central to the bar is the Guinness poor.
- [32:13]
A
But because it also is visually so different. Right? Like, it's a slow pour. It looks different. It comes in its own glass. It's actually quite of a heavy pour. Like, it's a. It. It's a big glass of beer. Other beers have now followed for having, like, huge glasses. But I remember they're called pints.
- [32:28]
B
Everybody drinks pints. They're. They're all the same glass in. In England and. And Ireland and Scotland.
- [32:33]
A
But I remember when I was waitressing. Yeah, yeah. In here. And the Guinness glass felt like. Stella also did a good job of it, too, with the Chalice. But there were a few. The brands that people felt the most passionately about were the ones that came with their own branding experience because they knew that they had such. They had such a small window to create a differentiation in order to create loyalty.
- [32:57]
B
This is why I love these conversations, honestly, popped in my mind is I love creating those associations in clients who have businesses that need to be recognized, but they're just not leveraging that kind of final storytelling element to make it iconic.
- [33:11]
A
Totally agree. And to wrap up the point on the tying to culture and to a country's brand status, you had brought up a really great point, like for cashmere, for example, you know, like, if you did a timepiece and getting a brand to go in as the timepiece as, like, this brand's iconic. Like Dubari, for example. It's a brand I fell in love with in Dublin. It's a very traditional Western. Sorry. It's a very traditional equestrian look and. But also at the same time, that, like, hunter vibe. Right. So it's. But a very kind of iconic. It's from Ireland, but it also feels very iconic British, you know, like, and what I. That brand, to me, could even become more iconic and more well known outside of that the aisles, if they tied to the culture or the country. And when you said, you know, a cashmere brand getting into, like, Bridgerton and like, that was a really interesting moment for me because that's when it. When it elevates to a whole other level of like, Dubari is very well respected in. In England and Ireland, people love the brand. But I was more like when I walked into, like, okay, this is good. This is the spot. But I think there's space for that brand to come over here, like an Aragon does. And people being like, that's the brand to buy when you're there. Because, like, that's iconic for being in that country.
- [34:45]
B
No, it's. I forgot about that. But we were thinking about how Guinness took advantage of the Irish pubs and how a brand can. And we were thinking about. I forgot about. That's amazing. Like, that, you know, the right Irish sweater that's done to look unique and super stylish. And you product place it. Now you're tying it to the culture. If the show is very popular about.
- [35:07]
A
Like, that's why I think they aren't. The Aaron sweater is so iconic. Whenever there's a movie, I. For me, it was, P.S. i love you. I mean, have you ever seen the movie?
- [35:15]
B
I don't believe I've. I missed that one.
- [35:17]
A
Oh, my God. The only movie that I think I've watched, like, 10 times. And I always cry in the end when she reads the last letter, and she's like. He's like, I will be forever. And I'm like, sorry, go ahead. The. He wears an Aran sweater, like the cable knit, you know, famous iconic Irish sweater. And to me, when I went to Ireland, I was like, I need to get an Aaron sweater. Because whenever I've seen those moments of any kind of Irish culture, they're wearing those sweaters. So you're so right in that a great way. Like, when we say roots in Canada, like, we had a whole thing on the Olympics, and we're like, it should be roots. And we had we had actually some listeners respond and be like, roots only did it for three years. Just been crazy.
- [36:02]
B
Yeah.
- [36:02]
A
Like, they really were never the, like, official Olympic sponsors. But when we think Canada, because it.
- [36:08]
B
Was such a good match, I think.
- [36:09]
A
It'S such a great match because it's Canadian, you know. And Ruth has done such a good job of like, when we had our fantastic videographer and editor move to Canada, the first gift that we got her was a root sweater.
- [36:20]
B
That's true.
- [36:21]
A
Because we were like, that.
- [36:22]
B
You have to start wearing it now for every episode. She said she loves it, but when.
- [36:27]
A
I want, it's cozy and warm. She's Canadian.
- [36:30]
B
But a takeaway people can use to brands maybe, and it's just another version of going back to story is if you are making a product or delivering a service, go back to the roots of what inspired that product and then try and tie your product to a grander story or brand that makes an association easy. Like, these are the best hiking boots from Denmark. You know, like, try and tie what you're doing to something bigger so that humans can make an association and then remember you better.
- [36:59]
A
Totally. Right. I really enjoyed chatting about Guinness and Ireland with you.
- [37:07]
B
Amazing brand. But if you saw the video, Camille could not smile while she was drinking it.
- [37:13]
A
I tried so hard because Rory Sutherland, who I deeply respect, was like, guinness tastes so much better in Ireland. And I was so excited to have that moment where I was like, you're so right. It's so good. Nice. But the one that tasted the best is one with me on it.
- [37:27]
B
I will say no comment.
- [37:31]
A
That's awesome. Gotta go.