Sammy Nusdorf’s Playbook for Meadowlane (How to Build in Public)

Summary

The Art of the Brand: He Built a Business Before It Opened (Here’s How)

Podcast: The Art of the Brand
Hosts: Camille Moore & Phillip Millar (Third Eye Insights)
Guest: Sammy (Founder, Meadow Lane)
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into how Sammy, founder of gourmet NYC grocery store Meadow Lane, built a cult following—and a profitable business—before opening his doors. Through candid conversation and real examples, the hosts and guest explore the concept of “building in public” using social media, authentic branding, and community engagement. Listeners are treated to insider knowledge on leveraging TikTok as a marketing tool, managing public scrutiny, and the humbling journey from kitchen taste tests to headline-making scandals (and, ultimately, business success).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Pitfalls of “Building in Public”

• No Blueprint—Learning On the Go

  • Sammy did not set out to “build in public” intentionally. He began sharing Meadow Lane’s journey out of personal excitement and a desire for customer feedback ([02:13]).
  • “I was so excited about this and it’s not going to come to fruition for so long … I may as well get customer feedback and build the consumer and show them the process well before I start.” — Sammy [01:34]

• Content Consistency and Simplicity

  • Content started simple: taste tests, logo reveals, and renderings for close friends on Instagram, but massive reach came through TikTok ([02:30]).

  • Encouragement for founders: Perfection and overproduction isn’t required; authenticity carries the day.

    “You’re actually an inspiration for people who don’t naturally create content… you’re literally opening your phone, pouring honey mustard dipping sauce onto your chicken nuggets, and you’re eating it. And that will blow up.” — Camille [03:29]

• Value Drivers in Content

  • Sammy identifies vulnerability, authenticity, or relatability as essential for TikTok success.
  • “People crave authenticity in people. If you’re not being yourself, it’s so easy to clock, especially in front of a camera.” — Sammy [04:04]

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2. Building Community Before the First Sale

• Monochannel Focus and Audience Engagement

  • Meadow Lane’s launch focused almost exclusively on TikTok, rejecting the pressure to be everywhere at once ([05:33]).
  • Dedicated fans emerged through direct product and process engagement—even minutiae like choosing grout or comparing shopping bags became content hooks ([26:22]).
  • “You actually are a great proof case of like if you own a channel and a platform, the rest will come.” — Camille [05:52]

• Customer Feedback Loop

  • Sammy leveraged TikTok for real-time input—from menu items to branding decisions, making followers feel part of the journey ([25:20]).
  • “It’s a collaborative effort… I found it really hard to get prepared food that I liked in New York City. So, tell me what you want to see.” — Sammy [28:59]

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3. The Opening Day Phenomenon and Operational Realities

• Opening Frenzy & Underestimation of Demand

  • Meadow Lane’s grand opening drew international visitors and block-long lines, selling out by early afternoon ([09:02]).
  • “The first customer got in line at 4am and I got here maybe at 5 or so… By the time we were ready to open, the line was around the block.” — Sammy [09:07]

• Success Brings New Pressures

  • Over triple expected daily customers overwhelmed the team and led to shortages and production hiccups ([09:48]).
  • “We were projecting… 300 tickets a day… we were doing a thousand. So we weren’t producing … food that we needed…” — Sammy [09:48]

• Rapid Crisis Management

  • When a procedural error led to undercooked chicken nuggets, some customers went straight to TikTok with their complaints ([11:05]).

  • Sammy’s response: full accountability, direct apologies, refunds, and public transparency ([11:36]).

    “Obviously apologize, take full accountability and refund them immediately. Invite them back to the store, let them pick out whatever they want, make right by the customer.” — Sammy [11:39]

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4. Viral Scandals and Owning the Narrative

• The Double-Edged Sword of Exposure

  • Viral exposure meant both wins and failures played out in the public square ([15:58]).

  • “Building in public is a double edged sword… your wins are loud and your fails are also loud.” — Sammy [15:58]

  • Advised to “lean in” to controversy rather than hide it. For example, when an old video of a mouse in the unfinished store went viral, Sammy responded by making a custom t-shirt, embracing transparency ([21:53]).

    “With, you know, ratatouille gate, it’s like, lean in. Always lean in.” — Sammy [22:33]

• Media Manipulation & Misinformation

  • Media often prioritized sensational buzzwords over accuracy ([15:11]), but trolling and controversy ultimately drove business rather than destroyed it ([17:18]).
  • “The media doesn’t care about the truth. The media cares about their viewership and their business.” — Sammy [15:11]

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5. Demystifying Branding at the Luxury Level

• Accessibility vs. Aspiration

  • While Meadow Lane is a luxury space, Sammy worked to keep it approachable, encouraging two-way dialogue with customers to avoid a “fashion brand” exclusivity vibe ([28:17]).
  • “I didn’t want customers to feel like this was too unattainable, that… they couldn’t shop here.” — Sammy [28:25]

• Transparent Pricing Debate

  • Press tried to paint Meadow Lane as outrageously expensive; Sammy clarified context and effort put into curation, comparing fairly against Manhattan competitors ([13:57]).

    “Objectively, it’s expensive. Respectively to Tribeca, it is not. For prepared foods. I tried to be as fair as possible and I looked at comps and it’s under our comps.” — Sammy [13:50]

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6. The Human Side: Handling Criticism and Staying True

• Emotional Toll & Letting Go

  • At first, internet rumors and media spin were distressing, but Sammy learned to detach and focus on real relationships ([17:18]).
  • “None of that matters. I know who I am and I know my truth and my… the people in my life who know me, not the parasocialism on TikTok, that’s what’s important.” — Sammy [17:18]

• Founder-Driven Social Presence

  • The founder is the ultimate brand ambassador; no agency can replace the passion and authenticity of the business owner ([39:17]).

    “Nobody cares more than the founder.” — Camille [39:17]

• Learning by Doing

  • Overcoming discomfort in front of the camera, not being naturally extroverted, and still using social media effectively.

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7. Meadow Lane as a Launchpad for Other Brands

• Small Brand Success Stories
  • Meadow Lane’s platform has helped launch or boost new CPG brands through in-store sales and viral exposure ([41:12], [41:35]).
  • Examples: Chara Greek frozen yogurt (“Definitely Chara. … We’re definitely their first retailer in the northeast”), Enzo chips with exclusive flavors, Little Sweet Treat Swedish candy.

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8. Looking Ahead

• Expansion and Scaling
  • Plans to expand after streamlining local operations; interest for more stores in NYC and eventual out-of-state/country branches ([36:18]).
  • Meadow Lane was profitable within two weeks—contrary to most brick and mortar launches ([37:29]).
  • Emphasis on curating (not overwhelming) product selection, making shopping efficient and enjoyable ([45:59]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | [01:34] | Sammy | “I was so excited about this and it’s not going to come to fruition for so long… I may as well get customer feedback and build the consumer and show them the process well before I start.” | | [04:04] | Sammy | “People crave authenticity in people. If you’re not being yourself, it’s so easy to clock, especially in front of a camera.” | | [09:07] | Sammy | “The first customer got in line at 4am… By the time we were ready to open, the line was around the block.” | | [11:39] | Sammy | “Obviously apologize, take full accountability and refund them immediately. Invite them back to the store, let them pick out whatever they want…” | | [15:11] | Sammy | “The media doesn’t care about the truth. The media cares about their viewership and their business.” | | [15:58] | Sammy | “Building in public is a double edged sword… your wins are loud and your fails are also loud.” | | [17:18] | Sammy | “None of that matters… I know who I am and I know my truth… the people in my life who know me, not the parasocialism on TikTok, that’s what’s important.” | | [21:53] | Sammy | “With… ratatouille gate, it’s like, lean in. Always lean in.” | | [28:25] | Sammy | “I didn’t want customers to feel like this was too unattainable, that… they couldn’t shop here.” | | [39:17] | Camille | “Nobody cares more than the founder.” | | [41:35] | Sammy | “Chara. Definitely Chara. It’s a Greek frozen yogurt brand. We’re definitely their first retailer in the northeast…” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Building In Public & Social Media Beginnings: [00:02] – [06:48]
• The Meadow Lane Origin Story: [06:48] – [08:23]
• Opening Day Experience: [09:02] – [10:22]
• Crisis (“Chicken Nugget Gate”) and Handling Virality: [10:22] – [13:01]
• Media Perception & Navigating Misinformation: [13:31] – [15:11]
• The Double-Edged Sword of Going Viral: [15:58] – [17:00]
• Emotional Impact and Learning to Let Go: [17:18] – [18:33]
• Handling Pricing & “Luxury” Brand Perception: [13:31] – [15:11], [28:17] – [29:22]
• Community and Audience Involvement: [24:29] – [26:44]
• Collaborations, CPG Brand Launches, and Product Selection: [41:12] – [46:37]
• Future Plans & Lessons for Young Entrepreneurs: [36:18] – [38:50]
• Branding, Merch, and Swag Stories: [47:02] – [47:29]

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Final Takeaways & Lessons for Listeners

• Building buzz and community before you open is possible—by being transparent, authentic, and consistently engaging.
• Social media doesn’t require slick production; value, honesty, and personality matter more than polish.
• Viral moments—good or bad—can propel a brand, but founders must own their story (even the uncomfortable chapters).
• Founders are (and must be) their own best marketers; hands-on involvement in branding pays dividends.
• Sharing process, missteps, and behind-the-scenes triumphs is not just engaging content—it’s a springboard for business growth.

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Episode in One Sentence

How relentless authenticity and strategic use of TikTok turned an unknown founder into NYC’s most talked-about grocer—proving that even luxury brands can thrive by building (the brand, and the business) in public.

Transcript

[A]

I'm not relatable. Never tried to be.

[B]

Are you a billionaire with unlimited resources?

[A]

People crave authenticity in people. If you're not being yourself, it's so easy to clock, especially in front of a camera. The building in public is a double edged sword. The media doesn't care about the truth. The media cares about their viewership and their business. And they'll prioritize using the buzzwords over an actual true story. Scrolling is lucrative for business. Controversy can be lucrative for business. Like, I was very protective of my truth and my narrative, but you kind of have to give that up. It's the same way with like any, you know, performer or like people that are in headlines or anything like that. Like, they keep going to create line culture around your store and build this demand that most brands would Dream of. Marketing yourself on TikTok. To work, you need to have one of three things. And like, what are you offering your audience? Is it humor? Is it intellect? Is it wisdom? Like, you need to be offering something, you need to have the value driver. Yeah.

[B]

What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. I can't believe I'm finally in Meadow Lane. I'm so excited to speak with you.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I use you as a case study all the time of, like, shut up and start posting before you open. Because so many businesses wait until after they open as if, like, people will care. And you did the complete opposite. You started years in advance.

[A]

Yeah. Which wasn't exactly intentional. And I had never seen a case study before because I didn't have TikTok, so I'd never seen anyone like, build in public. I didn't know what building in public meant, but when I met with marketing agencies, when I was thinking about marketing the business, I was like, well, I'm just gonna do it myself because I don't want to pay people to do something that feels like, please buy my product and pick me. So I was like, all right, I'll do it myself. And I'm so excited about this and it's not going to come to fruition for so long because it takes forever. So I may as well, like get customer feedback and build the consumer and show them the process well before I start.

[B]

But how did you know that it was going to catch on?

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

Did you have followers when you started?

[A]

No.

[B]

You had nothing?

[A]

Zero. My Instagram is private. So, like, I didn't have a Instagram Social presence or anything. But, like, my Instagram is like a fin. Like, I just post whatever I want. And I was posting, like, what renderings and stuff and the new logo that we made, and it was just my friends, like, oh, cool. But then with TikTok, I was like, people want to see how things are created start to finish, whether it's your hair or your makeup or, you know, grooming your dog, like, whatever. So I was like, how cool would it be to show people what it goes into building a business start to finish.

[B]

How did you figure that out? Like, how did you decide? And, like, not only, like, I'm going to do that, but, like, keep doing it after the first month, the second month, you know, like, consistency is what kills people.

[A]

Yeah. I wasn't as consistent in the beginning. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And getting comfortable in front of my phone slash camera was challenging. I was, like, crawling out of my skin. But it ended up I just learned as I went. And the first video that performed well was, like, me tasting, taste testing overnight oats. And I got all these comments and likes and stuff. I'm like, oh, this piqued people's interest. Like, go do more of that.

[B]

You're actually an inspiration for people who don't naturally create content. It overwhelms people to have, like, two camera setups and, like, mics and, like, professional editing. But, like, you literally are, like, opening your phone, pouring honey mustard dipping sauce onto your chicken nuggets, and you're eating it. And, like, that will blow up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's. It's not complicated stuff.

[A]

No, I. It's not. I think, like, in order for, you know, building in public or if you're marketing yourself on TikTok to work, you need to have one of three things, and it's vulnerability, authenticity, or relatability. I'm not relatable. Never tried to be.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, certain things, like, I think I can relate with an audience on, but, like, I'm going to get dragged for that. I think, like, people crave authenticity in people. Like, if you're not being yourself, it's so easy to clock, especially in front of a camera. And then vulnerability, like, how honest are you? Which relates to the authenticity part. But people really need those three. One of the three things to work. And, like, what are you offering your audience? Is it humor? Is it intellect? Is it wisdom? Like, you need to be offering something. Is it a skill set? Are you good at cooking? You need to have something.

[B]

A value driver.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One thing that you said that was really interesting is you actually like don't really post on Instagram. Like you're private on Instagram.

[A]

My personal one, yeah, it's private and.

[B]

But you. So you went all in on TikTok. Was it because that felt more anonymous?

[A]

No, I mean I have like kind of an Anonymous Persona on there, but like that was very quickly outed. I don't know. I got to learn TikTok and I'm like, I don't really want to do another platform. I don't really have time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I tried to get the broke back Contessa handle on Instagram but they never responded. It wasn't available. Such a great handle.

[B]

Yeah, it's actually such a great handle. So interesting. So TikTok, you just, you saw it as like a burgeoning platform. You figured it out and you're like, I'm just gonna double down and master one before me, try to like be on all the things.

[A]

I don't really want to be omnichannel. Like TikTok is enough for me. And I, I don't really.

[B]

I mean it built a huge fan base.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is a really refreshing perspective because a lot of people, like, if you have the content, I mean, me included, it's not perfect. If I have the content, I'm putting it on all the channels because like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. But like, you're actually a great proof case of like if you own a channel and a platform, like the rest will come.

[A]

Yeah. I mean it's a, it's just a lot of work, like operating the business, being in the store, being customer facing. That is a full time job. So there was more time for TikTok before we opened and now it's like a constant reminder. Post a video today. Yeah, So I film almost every day.

[B]

Wow. And you find it hard now that.

[A]

It's not hard. I just have to remember to do it now. I'm very quick about it, like, oh, I'm going to eat dinner anyways. I'll just film it and then I'll edit it and post it.

[B]

Yeah. Like you went through enough reps. Like your brain has changed for how you decide to fit it in. It's just thinking about fitting it in.

[A]

It's just remembering, like, I don't have to think too hard of like, what should I talk about? What should. Like, it's. I have thoughts constantly throughout the day. I'm constantly doing different things. I'm like, oh, I can just film myself doing that. It's not like Premeditated at all.

[B]

Got it, got it, got it. Let's talk about the Meadowlane story. How did you. How did this come to me?

[A]

I think it all started when Dean and DeLuca went out of business. Like, as a kid, I loved going to the grocery store. It was my favorite activity. And I've always been passionate about cooking and food. I grew up going to Dean and DeLuca on the upper east side, among many other grocery stores. And then they went out of business when I was working in VC downtown. And we used to go there all the time for lunch and I'd do my grocery shopping there. So they went out of business and I was like passively saying to a coworker, I'm going to open my own grocery store one day. Like, we'll see. And kept working in VC for five years and then started working in floral design in la. And I noticed all the amazing markets they had. And then I like, you know, grew up going around Swamp in the Hamptons, which is a great prepared food market. And I'm like, where is this in New York City? Like, Dean's Luke is gone. There's a couple little markets and bigger grocery stores that have prepared foods. But like, there's nothing like really well made that I thought was like, actually delicious. Like a restaurant, but grab and go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I decided to. Originally, the plan for Meadow Lane was to be a just a cafe with flowers. Just like place you can get coffee and do your work with tons of flowers and plants everywhere.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

And yeah, those are real. With this like hole in the market in New York with prepared food or lack thereof. I was like, this has to be in. We have to add food to the model. So I added prepared food, grocery and CPG and then started working on it, I guess, two years ago.

[B]

Did you expect it to be literally an international sensation?

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, people flew in for your opening.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Was that crazy?

[A]

I was not expecting that at all.

[B]

And it's crazy because we're sitting in here. I mean, it's sizable for New York, but for how big of a name Meadow Lane became, it's not huge.

[A]

No, it's very small. This is a 2300 square foot retail space.

[B]

And you like, it's quite even spacious too, in the opening. So it's really like. It's not.

[A]

It's really like less than 2, 000 square feet because the remainder of the square footage is back of house.

[B]

Oh, right. Yeah, that's a great point.

[A]

Yeah. It's a small space, but it was

[B]

like literally Your opening day, were you expecting like you shut down by 3 o', clock, right.

[A]

Earlier, I think the first customer got in line at 4am and I got here maybe at 5 or so and he was waiting outside. It was like 20 degrees. And we got him, we put a chair out there, did coffee runs for him. Like he came in to use like the restroom once or something and like he was dedicated. And then it kept growing and growing and growing. And then by the time we were ready to open, the line was around the block. Wow.

[B]

And were you like, was it the best feeling or was it like a oh shit feeling?

[A]

I. I don't even know what it like it was, it was just shocking. It was shocking and like exciting.

[B]

But it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

[A]

Yeah. I mean we were open 48 at. Well, not even we on our second day or third day of operations. You know, we were projecting for the business to do 300 tickets a day. 300 customers between coffee, food, produce, we were doing a thousand. So we weren't producing the food that we needed to be producing, like in quantity. So there was pressure on the kitchen to make more food and keep up with the demand because we closed early day one and people were still waiting on the line from earlier that day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I was like, I don't want people to come inside and, and see empty shelves after they just waited in 20 degree weather for three hours. Like they should have the full experience. So I was like, do I let them come inside to empty shelves or do I close and give them a fast pass like voucher for the next day? They get to cut the line because they waited already. So we went with the latter. And people were naturally upset. Some people understood. But the next day we increased all of our par sheets for the menu items to get cooking with chicken nuggets. You know, everything we make in house in order for the process of a chicken nugget, like we make it fresh, we batter it, we panko it and then we freeze it so that there's more, you know, ready available and then we thaw it and then fry it. So one tray of chicken nuggets didn't get thawed all the way through. So they went into the fryer, not like room temperature. So several people got slightly undercooked chicken nuggets and several people messaged me directly, like, hey, I just want to let you know, like I'm a huge fan. Like just let you should know. Couple people, like two really took to TikTok first to make a video about

[B]

it and you're like, of course. Yay.

[A]

But the first I found out was the video. And then. Yeah, so I had never done this before. So all I knew what came to me was like, okay, you know, obviously apologize, like, take full accountability and refund them immediately. Invite them back to the store, let them pick out whatever they want, like, make right by the customer. Like, it's, you know, not an okay thing. It's a terrible mistake. And they were all super friendly and, you know, understanding.

[B]

She even did another video for you.

[A]

Yeah, she did. Yeah.

[B]

I'm sure I didn't do as well, but she did do another video for you.

[A]

Yeah. I think like the people who took to TikTok, they followed up being like, this is what happened and these are my new nuggets and let's taste them. Or, you know, and they. They got the experience that was intended for them.

[B]

But do you find that the standard is higher? Like people, like people are looking to nitpick and they're looking to tear you down.

[A]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I think it's common in any restaurant scene now. I think hospitality people really struggle with the new age of social media. It's like all it takes is one person's testimony take down in business now. And I think with Meadow Lane's opening, it was so widely broadcasted, not just on social, but in the media, that any controversy about this topic was going to go viral.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you can see it when you. When you watch a video on TikTok and they. They edit it in a way where the problem, even though it took place on minute number three of filming is in the first three seconds of the video, not on minute three. Like they put the problem in the beginning, the hook, because then it amasses all this virality. So while there were Meadowlane super fans, they put their own virality ahead of, you know, their fandom or appreciation for the store.

[B]

Yeah, I want to kind of lean into kind of the. The more. I don't know if it's like negative, but the teeth here, headlines that you've gotten of, like it's handed. Like everything is so expensive and bougie. Like, I actually just think it's well curated. Like a flaming cookbooks. 20 bucks. Like your salad is 20 bucks. Like your stuff is actually not expensive.

[A]

I mean, objectively, it's expensive. Respectively to Tribeca, it is not.

[B]

But like for prepared foods.

[A]

For prepared foods. I tried to be as fair as possible and I looked at comps and it's under our comps. Yeah, I Mean, if you're in Manhattan, like it's pretty standard to be spending around 20 bucks for a salad.

[B]

I feel like salads are $30 now. $35 when you add protein to them. Yeah, I mean, like I feel back in Canada when I order salads at lunch, they're like $35 when I add like a piece of chicken.

[A]

And it's organic. It's organic. It's really thoughtfully sourced food and protein. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think the media wanted to cover the most expensive things here. I think they probably looked at the $12 chicken salad that competitors sell for 20 and they're like, no, I'm gonna stick to the $65 olive oil and the $750 tin of caviar.

[B]

Like olive oil. It's important. Like you've got really well curated like, like there. And it's also not brands you see at every store. Yeah, like I feel like you picked really good quality brands.

[A]

We taste tested, you know, we were delayed a year, we taste tested and used that time to curate, you know, as well as we could, the best stuff. But the media doesn't care about the truth. The media cares about their viewership and their business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They grow their viewership by using buzzwords and they'll prioritize using the buzzwords over an actual true story.

[B]

I want to like lean into like the kind of the two sides of it, you know, it's a really, is a double edged sword because like on one hand you've had a lot of misinformation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like really big publications and press saying things where you're like, this is news to me, like, how did you come up with this? Like, you interviewed me and this is not truthful. But then on another hand, I feel like you've bypassed so many problems that new businesses might face in a down market. So like it's been incredible for you because you have a, a massive name, you've got demand all over the world to open more stores, but then you're also constantly dealing with bullshit that comes with it. So like, what's the pro cons?

[A]

The building in public is a double edged sword. Like you are able to create line culture around your store and build this demand that most brands would dream of. And it lasted three weeks. There were lines around the block. That's a pro con is like you are having a moment on the algorithm and any topic, like anyone talking about it, good or bad, is going to get attention for it because that's what's hot at the moment. So you know your wins are loud and your fails are also loud. I think the wins are louder though and the failures are like. Or I guess the low points are, you know, if someone has an issue with some good or service at Meadow Lane, like it's for everyone to see just as much as the winds are for everyone to see. So that comes with the territory. And you know, you're public facing now and the media can spin any sort of story that they want and you lose control of your narrative.

[B]

A lot of people listening to this like the idea of building in public but are crippled by the idea to do it because of one person, like seeing something or posting something that you can't but they can't control. How have you worked through that and why was it worth it?

[A]

I'm a very honest person and I just like at first when people were spinning my truth and changing my narrative, I was like spiraling. I'm like, how that's not true. What they just said isn't true. That's crazy. And it's like I had to learn over time that none of that matters. Like I know who I am and I know my truth and my, the people in my life who know me, not the parasocialism on TikTok, that's what's important. So people can say whatever they want about you and you could be misunderstood, but they're by people that you'll never meet and that don't know you and that don't matter. Right. So. And ultimately that's just good for business. Like if someone's saying something nasty and it's got 2 million views or whatever, like, okay, that's like more attention for the brand. Trolling is lucrative for business. Controversy can be lucrative for business. You don't want to push it too far, but it doesn't end up hurting me anymore. I think before it was like I was very protective of my truth and my narrative, but you kind of have to give that up. It's the same way with like any, you know, performer or like people that are in headlines or anything like that. Like they keep going. They're not going to stop filming movies or doing whatever it is that they do.

[B]

You're totally right. You're bang on about that. Are you a billionaire with unlimited resources?

[A]

That's news to me. I think that people found it unfathomable that someone at my age could fund their own business. And like with what limited information is online. You make assumptions, but this is self funded and there are not unlimited resources and I always wanted to be autonomous and have my own agency and be separated, like, severed from my family and not rely on them. So that is super important to me. And I think the media, you know, it's back to the buzzwords. It's like, what makes a punchier headline. Totally.

[B]

Like, I love when you were saying before we started recording, like, people are saying, like, which billionaire should I support? Like, Whole Foods or better? Like, we're not the same.

[A]

I was like, I mean, now I'm, like, insecure. I'm like, do I need to be, like, you know, making more money? Like, I. I just, like. I mean, Jeff Bezos are not on the same playing field.

[B]

I know, but it's like a really. It's. It was an interesting narrative that really took off online. It was also your hook, Right. Like, you're. I'm building the gourmet.

[A]

Opening a gourmet grocer in Tribeca.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm opening a gourmet grocery in Tribeca. And the other thing that I love that you did is. Let's talk about the rat story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I feel like that was a real moment of power for you.

[A]

I had just gotten knocked down from Chicken Nugget Gate, and like, a day later, someone posted this video, which I had seen before. And it was in our construction phase. We were, like, finishing the final touches of construction, and we were getting ready for our photo shoot, which, like, the pictures are now live and everything, but we were decorating the store with, like, props and things. And we didn't have window blinds because we were like, who cares? We're not opening anytime soon. And the lights were on. And a neighbor. Well, I guess several people must have taken a video, but there was a little mouse on a chair like that over there. And a neighbor sent me the video and was like, hey, just want to let you know, like, we're a neighbor restaurant. You might want to call it an exterminator. I was like, oh, thank you so much. Like, we'll take care of that right away. And, you know, New York active construction sites are like a problem with vermin. But it was just that one mouse, because we called the exterminator. They came the next day, handled it, done. Then they started coming every week, made checks like, that's standard. And then after Chicken Nugget, Fast forward six, seven months. Someone else must have taken their own video. It wasn't the neighbor that shared it with me, because it was a different angle. And they posted it from a TikTok burner account. And they posed it in a way that was like, oh, like they have a rat infestation. I'm like, you can see this wasn't like, an infestation. It was one thing. But also, you can see the store wasn't ready, that this was filmed months and months ago. So that took off. And, you know, I addressed it like, this is a severe case of. Of a con and of building in public. Like, you are under a lot of, you know, scrutiny, and people can change the narrative and make something look as if it's, you know, in the present moment, but it's not.

[B]

And then what'd you do with it?

[A]

Francis made me a. A custom T shirt that had that chair, like, embroidered with, like, a little mouse on top of it. Like, just leaning in. Yeah. Like, I mean, there's. It was six months ago. Like, that. Nothing to be ashamed of. Like, that's the truth. And I have all the receipts, too. It's like, when people make paid press allegations, I'm like, First of all, 90% of this press is, like, not good. So, like, I don't. Yeah. Like, I. Legally, you can't even pay for press. So I have all the receipts of, like, when editors or writers reach out, oh, we want to do a story on Meadowlane. And I'm like, here you go. Like, nothing to hide. But when there is controversy, like, with, you know, ratatouille gate, it's like, lean in. Always lean in.

[B]

Yeah. What's the worst that's gonna happen when you own your narrative? But, like, I think that's such a powerful takeaway, because was there a moment before you had the power and the confidence and the receipts, all of those things to lean in where you second guessed it, where you're like, what am I doing?

[A]

No, I don't think so. I think I felt empowered by leaning.

[B]

So there was never a moment of, like, this is all happening at one time. The world is falling in on me. I'm. I wish I didn't do this.

[A]

No, I think not responding and listening to people who work in PR who are like, don't respond. Don't answer. It's going to fuel the fire. I was like, no. Like, it's such a wrong approach with the nugget thing. They were like, don't. Don't respond. I'm like, why? What do you mean? Like, I have been so honest and open about this whole process. Like, of course I'm going to respond. I just need to figure out how to do it. And I think it took, like, two takes or something. But, like, I was like, you know what? Like, honesty is just an accountability is, like, that's back to the vulnerability piece that people appreciate totally. And the authentic, like, you know, people can sense the authenticity. And I think, like, they noticed that from the beginning where I was like, this isn't tasting the way I want it to. And, like, doing several renditions over and over, like, they can sense it totally.

[B]

Well, at what point did you realize, like, you really had a community? Because by the time, like, it really caught on for me was before you were opening and you were comparing the bags.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I felt like I was the last person to know about you. Like, it was at a point where, like, everybody was talking about it around me and everyone was dialed into the storyline in the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of meddling.

[A]

I don't know. Like, I've never looked at it from the outside looking in. And, like, my friends, like, they just know that as me, but I don't know. I've never asked anyone that, like, knew me from the screen to now.

[B]

Like, when did it click? Interesting.

[A]

I don't know if it ever did.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I don't know if it did.

[B]

Let's talk about characters, because you've. I feel like you also understand that you kind of have a TV show. Like, you've got Frances as this, like, character that comes in and comes out. How did you decide to. What to share? How to separate your life? Because you haven't really shared. Cared a ton about you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's really been about this place.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't. I don't think too much about it. It's just like, I get a. Like, I'm like, oh, I should showcase this part. Like, when I did the video about the food that did well, I was like, well, what else would they be interested in knowing? And it kind of was just like, whatever I was dealing with that day. So, like, a construction meeting or the bag drama or someone trying to sue me for trademark infringement. I'm like, anything that, like, sparks an interest in me or creates sort of emotion, I'm like, let's share that. It's a part of the process.

[B]

So it was, like, highlight moments. It wasn't, like, a requirement to post three times a day. You were, like, looking for things that added to a TV show?

[A]

No, I wasn't even thinking about it as a TV show. I was just like, let's try and incorporate all the different elements that go into building a business, and maybe that inspires an entrepreneurial audience. And I don't Think I was being as intentional as people think. It was kind of just like whatever gravitated towards me. I think at some points it was because I was like, oh, I want customer feedback on this. Like how are you enjoying the coffee? Or you know, which Uber, which platform do you like better for third party delivery? Uber or doordash? Like I got good customer feedback before.

[B]

What a gift. Yeah, like to be able to ask a built in audience of what do you like? But with some of the stuff, like you went even so far as to compare like what grout you wanted to use, like was any of that over dramatized or was it like seriously that level of decision making that you were focusing on, focusing on for the space?

[A]

It was that level. I am very meticulous and I don't think I asked anyone for design advice with the store. I'm like super ocd.

[B]

But that's where you said like earlier to your point on like authenticity, like you weren't trying to be something. Like these were the, the battles that you were having in your head. So you're like, this is interesting probably, let's record it online.

[A]

Yeah. And I was just passionate about it. Like from the design to the flowers to the food to the produce to the CPG brands, I was just like I was. And I am extremely passionate about all those things. So whenever I feel like a sense of passion, I want to share it with people. Because I think what I realized from the first video that took off is like there are people also that are passionate about food, flowers, CPG products, experiences, retail, all these things. And I like, that's when I realized there was a community that had a similar interest and it was like, okay, we have like a similar tribe. Like what you were saying in your podcast, it's like we have this mutual passion for things and like that's what the captivated audience was interested in.

[B]

Totally. I think what makes you the most fascinating case study is you did what gourmet, like I want to say luxury, but I actually think now in seeing your store, it really is gourmet, like upper level premium. Like I agree with you that the price point like, but like it's actually reasonable at $21 salad. I will say that. But what I think is fascinating about you as a case study is that you went against everyone's conception of I shouldn't show the lows, I shouldn't show the mistakes, I shouldn't show the bad. Because I'm trying to launch this luxury gourmet grocery store. Like most people think in at the upper end.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't show anything that's bad. Don't show the process. Have them open the door and be, like, impressed by the view. How did you decide that this would work at a premium price point in a premium city?

[A]

The store looks luxury because it is, like, all these finishes. This build out's not cheap.

[B]

No, it's a luxury space. Totally.

[A]

I didn't want customers to feel like this was too unattainable, that, like, they didn't belong here, that they couldn't shop here. There's certain fashion brands where it feels unattainable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And more aspirational. And maybe some people feel that way. Like, there's this whole topic of, like, food being the new status symbol.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being interactive with my customers every day. Like, I don't see most of them like that. I think they just enjoy the food and enjoy the experience of shopping here. I don't think it's like, I have this new, like, metal lane tote bag. You know, it's not like a Margaux bag.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So as opposed to being like this. We set. You know, what you see is what you get kind of energy. It's more like, what do you guys want? Because I found it really hard to get prepared food that I liked in New York City. So tell me what you want to see. Do you want a green goddess salad? Do you want a different flavor of overnight oats? Like, it's. It's a collaborative effort.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's what builds community rather than being unattainable.

[B]

I think in sitting here and talking to you and getting to know you, the reason why you've been successful is you've been a hundred percent authentic. Like, it is. I feel like it is very much like you to speak out loud, to, like, to want to get this feedback, to make this space feel, like, welcoming to share. Like, you were so authentic in how you documented and how you showed up. Like, there's no difference between the online version of you and the real life version of you.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

No, there isn't.

[A]

I have to ask. Sometimes I'm like, am I like this in person? They're like, yeah, but. Because I never know. Like.

[B]

Like, what do you mean? Like, what part?

[A]

I don't know. Like, I think sometimes I'm, like, more reserved and quiet. And then for TikTok, like, when you start building a Persona on TikTok, it's like, sometimes you feel like you need to be more theatrical and dramatic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is, like, real, you know, like, that Happens. But I'm like, I never wanted to like stray away from myself, but I kind of like ebb and flow in my mood. So that's normal. Total normal.

[B]

All right, so I've have my Meadow Lane basket. I'm actually really here for the chicken salad. I must.

[A]

I'm nervous about the chicken salad.

[B]

Why are you nervous about the chicken salad?

[A]

We're fixing it.

[B]

Have you had feedback?

[A]

I mean, people love it, but like, it's not where I want it to be.

[B]

Honestly, it's interesting that like you're like, I've seen you as you're walking around the store, like, continue to focus on improvement. Like you're not happy with where things are even though they're successful.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, we're still in the first 90 days of operation, so things are gradually going to improve. Like we're going to continually refine and we're gonna add more menu items. You know, we're supposed to. Do you like horseradish, by the way, love? Okay, well, this is horse. Some people think it's like too horseradish forward, but.

[B]

Cheers. Wanna. Wanna hit forks?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a big deal.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Cheers. The chicken salad. Oh, it's great.

[A]

I like it today.

[B]

I mean, is it different for. From you making it to try it out your recipe to scaling it to.

[A]

Well, it's not my recipe, but it's. Yeah, it's different. You know, when you make a chicken salad at home for, you know, a two day supply, it's. It comes out different than when you're doing it, like ordering hundreds of pounds of chicken.

[B]

This is literally delicious. So how did you get Bethany Frankel to try it?

[A]

I did a taste test video of the chicken salad and then it went kind of viral and everyone was tagging Bethany because she's like the empress of chicken salad. Literally. I mean, I'm pretty sure she made it like back in, you know, whatever it's called. She like made it really relevant again. I mean, everyone eats chicken salad, but like, no one was talking about it on Tick Tock really, until her, because

[B]

she's doing that whole. It's the whole model diet, the skinny girl food.

[A]

Everyone was tagging her and then she clocked it and commented something. And then I responded and I think I DM'd her. I was like, how can I send you some chicken salad? And then she gave me like her assistant's email. We emailed, we coordinated sending it to her and she tried it. The review was hysterical. Like I was dying. And she like gave such. She gave Such specific feedback on the chicken salad while she was eating it. And it kind of made sense to me. And then she gave it a 7 out of 10, and I honored the 7 out of 10. Like, we were still R and D the recipe, and I wanted her feedback. And it was. It was solid feedback. No. Then months later, my friend calls me, and he's like, you're gonna get a call from a random number in four minutes. I need you to answer and have someone record you. I'm like, what do you mean? What's going on? He's like, just do it. I'm like, okay, fine. So I'm with, like, Francis, another person that was working for me. The chef was there, and I get this call, and it's actually my friend's mom who I'd never met. And it's Alex Cohen on the phone. And she's like, hi, is this Sammy? Like, I have someone that wants to talk to you. Meanwhile, they're like, 30,000ft in the air. And then I hear Bethany's voice, and I'm like. She's like, is this. Are you in the chicken factory? I was like, oh, my God. So she's like, I like it. I like it. We're on the plane, we're eating it. Six years ago, I met her in Portofino at this hotel. So random. And I was like, you look familiar. Like, how do I know you? And she's like, oh, I'm Bethany. I'm on. I was on the Real Housewives or something. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Because I knew someone that she used to date. He was a family friend.

[B]

Right. I remember. It's in the video.

[A]

Yeah. And. But we had never met. But I think she knew, like, maybe an uncle of mine. That's why she was like, in her video. She's like, I think we have people in common or something. But she gave me, like, a tough review, right? And so then she's, like, giving me more feedback on the phone. It was just so funny. Like, she's so passionate about chicken.

[B]

She's the best. She is, to me, like, the perfect example of, like, being you to the maximum. And, like, people will love you. Like, don't hold back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me the story about this salad.

[A]

That is the Chinese chicken salad. I love Chinese chicken salad.

[B]

Me, too. I got it from the original place in la. Would you know what it's called?

[A]

No. Is there, like, someone that invented it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I don't know.

[B]

I'll get it to be when I get there.

[A]

I love an Asiany like carrot gingery dressing.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Like peanut dressing.

[B]

Should be Kardashian shakes.

[A]

I would just hold it.

[B]

Imagine like I

[A]

these new containers. Like, they don't.

[B]

Okay, you too. Your turn.

[A]

I have like an art of doing it.

[B]

It's like a shake weight.

[A]

You gotta get like all different directions going.

[B]

I'm very impressed.

[A]

I love Chinese chicken salad, so I wanted to make my own and I didn't think there were many or any grab and go in New York.

[B]

I'm trying chicken salad. I gotta get you that. Yours is better than the original. I will say, what is a hidden gem here that you think more people should make more viral?

[A]

I think the curry tuna.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The tuna salad, like, people have caught on. And some. Some people made videos being like, why is no one talking about the curry tuna? So I made a video saying that as well. But it's picked up momentum. That one for sure.

[B]

Cool. I mean, we must try it. There's a crab salad there. Film too.

[A]

The crab salad is incredible.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

That's one of my favorite things. That with a master chip is spectacular.

[B]

Wow. I love those master chips.

[A]

They're good.

[B]

Where do you think? What's the future of Meadowlane look like? Where are you going?

[A]

Right now? I want to just streamline operations here as much as possible. Make more menu items. You know, I taste tested hundreds of things and right now our menu is super small. So grow that probably once. That's once I'm feeling more comfortable with the operations here. Look for a second location in New York. Yeah.

[B]

You think you have enough demand?

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Do you think that you have enough demand to launch it in London, England or Dubai?

[A]

I mean, yes, because the viewership is so spread across the country and even out of country, but not until you've created enough of an awareness of the brand in the United States. First, like, I would want to. I. First of all, I only plan on making a one store. Initially, I was like, this thing needs to break even. If it breaks even, I'm happy. It's a tough business to be in, but we were operationally profit on week two. I would want to do like several in New York City and then go to like Florida or Texas.

[B]

Can you believe that? Like operationally profitable on week two.

[A]

Nuts.

[B]

Like, that is such a reason to put up with all the. That you had to put up with. Yeah, like, because there's nothing more stressful than money stress. Yeah, like there's nothing that keeps you up at night more than money stress. Think of all of these small businesses that are listening to this and watching this all over the world. Like, you literally avoided hiring the expense of marketing agencies because you could do it yourself and you did it yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't need, like, crazy fancy ads or sophisticated SEO. Like, you just picked up your iPhone and you recorded the video.

[A]

I think it's good. It's a good case study. And, like, there's a reason why I liked your podcast so much is because you were defending building in public for young entrepreneurs where there were other people on the end of the spectrum saying, this is the case study as to why you should not build your business in public. Because look at this disaster. And I'm like, well, you're only watching a couple tiktoks that make you think it's a disaster, but you don't know the business. Like, you don't know the balance. So ultimately like it. I wanted to inspire young entrepreneurs who are bootstrapping their companies because they can save tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs by not hiring ad agencies, marketing agencies, or PR agencies. Like, you can definitely do it yourself.

[B]

Well, that's the thing that's so mind blowing about this is that none of this is that complicated. I don't want to undermine, like, the thinking and, like, the ability to understand a hook. But other than studying that people want to, like, outsource. Like, they think it's below them. Like, they think that it's like, that's a role that you can, like, hire and get somebody else to do. It's not something that the founder should take on and how wrong that is. In a social first world, like, the founder has to be. Nobody cares more than the founder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even if you're hiring an agency, the founder has to be so involved in working with the agency because no one is as committed to the success of the business than the person who owns the business.

[A]

Yeah. I used to feel the exact same way. And then Francis was like, it's not that easy. And I like, always listen to her because she sees everything and we work so closely together. And she's like, it's not as easy as you think. Like, you have to be an entertainer of sorts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to, like, understand consumer psychology. You have to play along with your audience. Like, not everyone has that ability. Some people don't get out of the uncomfortable in front of the camera phase, and they take on a Persona that's not authentic to themselves. And then people meet them in person and they're like, wait.

[B]

Like, I mean, that's also the celebrity problem, too, of this curated PR that doesn't match them.

[A]

Yeah, but I don't know. I, I, I'm not exactly sure, but I have, like, I don't know, it's hard to say.

[B]

I'm not undermining the skill that exists,

[A]

but I'm, but, but I don't know if it's skill. I think it might just be inherent to people's personalities.

[B]

Maybe. But I'm also meeting you too. Like, you're not particularly, like, extremely outgoing. You seem more pragmatic. Like, you are more practical in the way that you approached it. You're like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna figure it out. Like, you're not someone that is, like, thriving on Instagram, posting seven times a day. Like, you're not a 21 year old that like, lives to Snapchat their friends like all day, every day. Like, like you saw the utility in it as well. But, but you're right, and I do think that's a good point is that, like, socials is not for everyone, but for a lot of people that consume a lot of content, it's a skill for you to learn. Like a golf, like a skiing, like, it doesn't come natural to anybody.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

But I mean, I don't disagree either that not everyone should be on camera. So let's talk about the metalane effect. You said that you've created a lot of super success for people by launching some brands in the store.

[A]

A lot of CPG brands that we carry, this is their first retailer that they're.

[B]

And so look, I feel I'm like, geeking out. I haven't tried Coconut Cult. Going to try that.

[A]

There's also a lot of CPG brands that are making us custom flavors that are exclusive to the store. Oh, cool. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So which of these have you changed their business?

[A]

Chara. Definitely Chara. It's a Greek frozen yogurt brand. We're definitely their first retailer in the northeast, I think the country as well.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

It's very delicious and people go crazy for it.

[B]

Love.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, we have regular celebrities that come here and they are obsessed with it and they're like on their own volition, posting it on their social and tagging. Chara.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And we have a great relationship with the founder and she's like, over the moon and I think it's done wonders for her business.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah, it's really cool to see even

[B]

these bars, these dipped raspberries. Oh, my gosh. These look incredible.

[A]

Those do really well. The Cafe Pana collaboration that we did, you know, they don't need any extra marketing or attention. They're a beast of their own. People love that.

[B]

Man, these look great. Show me some other favorites in the store.

[A]

Yeah. For CPG, Masa Chips is one of our highest performing CPGs. Zaza Chips. This is a great company. Like, the most delicious pita chips.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

That is a top 5 highest selling item in the CPG section.

[B]

I love these, like this packaging, this Enzo. I've never seen it before.

[A]

Yeah. So, Enzo, are these Japanese sweet potato chips and the founders, actually, I did a video on it, eating them, I think, with one of our caviars. And they were like, we want to send you all of the different flavors that we're R D ing. I was like, oh, great. They sent me like 20 flavors. Wow. And they're like, whichever one you like the best, we're going to run into production. I was like, like, really? Like, I've never had the opportunity to do that before.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And so my favorites were the rosemary garlic and the sweet chili.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

But they were just samples, you know, from their co packer. And I was. So I told them those are my favorite. They ended up making those flavors and. And running them into production.

[B]

You should have like a little card here that, like, Sammy selected and like, just be like the brand. Like, these are the two flavors that he picked. Like, I feel like you're getting that lore. Like, I would buy them both of them, just because I now know that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I did talk about it in a video, but so people might already know. But it's been really cool.

[B]

People know. But it's hard. But it's hard from like a. For how much content you post if I miss that video to see that, to know that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, we like to mix, like, brands that you've never seen before and that you've never heard of with, like, really institutional brands. Because I believe that just because something is widely accessible on every shelf and it's mass commercialized, like, it doesn't mean it's a bad product. Yeah. Like, it's good for a reason. It's popular for a reason. So we kind of like do a high, low mix here.

[B]

Cool. What are some other ones that you feel like people should try?

[A]

If they come in, Strip jerky is really good. People are loving it. We just added it to the shelf. And the founder's, like, super excited and she. Like, a lot of people drop off samples here and like, oh, I really want to be on the shelf. And we. We try it. We try everything.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And it's cool to see that come to light. All it.

[B]

It's so cute. Little sweet treat.

[A]

Yeah. I got to pick out every sour candy in this bag.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Yeah. And she also marketed her brand on TikTok.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Pre launch.

[B]

But this looks like it's branded by you. Or is her company called Little sweet Treat?

[A]

No, her. So her company is Little sweet Treat. It's a Swedish sour candy company.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

She's opened like eight stores.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah. Marketed all on TikTok.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So she. Before we opened, she came here when this was a construction site. And I was like, like, take a bag of your product and like, put it on this shelf when it was just like, metal and stuff. And then I'll show you the tick tock after. And then she saved that. Year and a half later, she's putting this custom bag on the actual shelf.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

During the opening week. And it was like, it was really cool.

[B]

That's amazing. I love the packaging here. Like, from a branding perspective, I could really geek out, like, from the June salted pistachios to, like, the papadelics. Like, it's so well packaged.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah. We spent much time doing that. This is another brand fro. It's like a Danish bread.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she gave us samples, and now they're on the shelf. You know, like it's. And it's flying off the shelf. It's unbelievable. Cool. We kind of wanted to make the choice easier. I think consumers are paralyzed by an overwhelming amount of choice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it makes grocery shopping take longer. And a lot of Meadow Lanes ethos is like, we're fulfilling a need for people that are extremely busy and are crunched for time. So I taste tested so many things, like, thousands of products. And I. And I mean, I tried to pick what I thought was the best for each category and not an overwhelming amount of choice. Like, how am I going to pick between one of 50 different tortilla chips? You know, like, I don't have time for that. And it's like, oh, my God, Where'd the time go? I've been in this grocery store for two hours here. It's a much faster experience.

[B]

So. Totally. And it's also, to me, it's like, very focused on discoverability. Like, I'm coming in and I'm like, discovering. It's more like, this is a destination. This is an experience. It's. And everything that's in here has that taste barometer of like, I know it's going to be great. Which, honestly, I'm overwhelmed because everything looks literally fantastic. How about your swag? How's your swag done?

[A]

That's all we have left.

[B]

How much did you order?

[A]

Thousands.

[B]

Thousands?

[A]

Yeah. This is all we have left. And they're like XLs.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

At least the sweats.

[B]

And once they sell out, are you going to replenish them?

[A]

We're gonna make new ones, like, different design.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

Leaning into a lot of the controversy. Like, I got canceled at Metal Lane Merch.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

We just don't have time right now, but we'll do it eventually.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah. All the art, too, was donated or like on lend, basically for free from Creative Art Partners.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And it's been. Yeah, it's been cool to, like, have brands just want to be a part of it, you know, and we get to like, they get to have exposure on the shelf or on the wall, and it's just been like a cool way to partner and meet other founders.

[B]

Totally. I'm very impressed with what you built, and I cannot wait to watch your success.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You're. You're a rock star. I feel like this is kind of a religious moment

[A]

like you've waited a lifetime for.

[B]

So what's like, the sauce etiquette?

[A]

I do a big dip because I

[B]

kind of work out for sauce.

[A]

You what?

[B]

I work out for sauce.

[A]

Yeah. That is a good sauce to work out for.

[B]

You know, like, I live for sauce.

[A]

Yeah, it's. Do you like honey mustard?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, it's a good.

[B]

Like, I drink it truthfully. All right. Like, which one do you think looks the best in my option? So here we go. We got a. We got a container here.

[A]

I like the way that one looks.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, it looks kind of like it's got a little bit of grease on it.

[A]

Are you gluten free?

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, they're gluten free.

[B]

Would you like to join me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would you like to dip first?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Wow, look at that sauce. All right.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Cheers. Worth the hype.

[A]

It doesn't get old for me.

[B]

No. These are really good. These are, like, real. What makes it so good?

[A]

We use really high quality chickens.

[B]

I'll double dip a few. Double dip.

[A]

Yeah. I don't care.

[B]

Okay. I mean, I feel like you can't, not without it.

[A]

And, like, I'm usually not a gluten free alternative person, but I figured we can cater to both types of people as long as it didn't compromise texture. I mean, these are cold right when

[B]

is gluten free ever better? It's better right now.

[A]

Well, it just doesn't taste gluten free. No. Yeah.

[B]

You know, people say like butter in France and like pasta in Italy, I kind of would go as so far as to say it's like tenders and Tribeca.

[A]

That's insane. I love it, though.

[B]

Like, I feel like I honestly might exclusively only eat this now.

[A]

It's really good. Yeah, it's a big hit. Wow.

[B]

Well, thank you for having me.

[A]

Thank you for coming.

[B]

I'm just. I'm a big fan of Madeleine. He's got me. I look forward to when you release the mouse embroidered collection. Please make sure that I'm on the list.

[A]

I will send you one for sure because I just.

[B]

I really believe in fuck the haters.

[A]

I concur.

[B]

Until next time, my friend.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for coming out.