She Made $1 Billion On Glasses

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "She Made $1 Billion On Glasses"

The Art of the Brand | Third Eye Insights
Date: July 8, 2026
Host: Camille Moore and Phillip Millar
Guest: Linda Hammond (Founder of Key and Otra sunglasses)

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Overview

In this episode, Camille Moore and Phillip Millar sit down with Linda Hammond, the entrepreneurial powerhouse behind two blockbuster eyewear brands (Key and Otra). Linda shares her epic journey from market stalls with $165, to building and exiting a $1 billion brand, and coming back with Otra. The conversation is a masterclass in branding, influencer marketing, business resilience, and honest founder grit. Linda’s refreshing candor, humility, and granular advice make this essential listening for anyone building a brand, especially in fashion or D2C.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Starting Small, Thinking Big

• No Business Plan, Just Hustle: Linda and her husband started with $165, selling sunglasses at markets to go on holiday, never borrowing a cent and reinvesting every dollar into stock ([03:08-03:42]).
• Education and Background: Both left school at 14; Linda went into sales, her husband was a butcher. The lack of formal education freed them to work on instinct.

“We were like almost school dropouts… Winging it, designing glasses that we’d never done before. We were like, what the hell are we doing?”
— Linda ([07:11])

2. Family Business Dynamics

• Role Clarity: Linda and her husband survive and thrive in business and marriage by having clearly defined roles ([02:04-02:12]).
• Doing What It Takes: Linda remains hands-on, handling everything from DM replies to toilet cleaning, fostering mutual respect with her team ([33:11], [43:14]).

“My team work with me, not for me. I’ve never told them to do something I don’t do.”
— Linda ([33:31])

3. Early Influencer Marketing and PR Mastery

• Gifting Before It Was a Thing: Reluctant at first to gift to celebrities, Linda’s PR pivot (sending bulk gifts to Kardashian-Jenner clan) led to organic exposure ([05:00-06:26]).
• The Kylie Effect and Beyond: Kylie Jenner, Lady Gaga, Gwen Stefani, and Desi Perkins all became key organic influencers.
• Game-Changing Collabs: The Desi Perkins x Key launch did $7M in 12 minutes, briefly breaking Shopify’s servers ([14:30-15:33]).

“Shopify rang us… ‘Do not ever do that to us again!’”
— Linda ([15:18])

4. Creating Market Gaps

• Inventing the “Middle Market”: Noticed a gap between gas station sunglasses and expensive luxury brands, Linda’s affordable “cool, not cheap” approach defined a new segment ([11:11-11:54]).
• Community Before It Was Cool: Built a genuine brand tribe before “community” was a buzzword ([19:12], [46:28]).

5. Building and Selling a Billion-Dollar Brand

• Virality and Infrastructure: Facing viral demand, Linda regrets not hiring earlier and building infrastructure fast enough, warning of potential implosions from unchecked growth ([18:24-19:14]).
• Exit to Private Equity: Unplanned sale after being approached by a Boston private equity, designed more to safeguard the business and its staff than to maximize payout ([30:33-32:32]).

“Business was not for sale. I’d never even heard what a private equity was.”
— Linda ([30:33])

6. Reinventing with Otra

• Back to Basics, Again: Launched Otra after seeing a void left post-Key, running Otra as a lean, genuine startup, intentionally not relying on prior wealth or established names ([29:35-30:14], [47:34-47:49]).
• Community Over Celebrities: Gifts to smaller “tribe” influencers (2,000-5,000 followers) proved as powerful as reaching mega-stars ([50:49-51:48]).

“Even that girl that’s got the 5,000 followers, that’s 5,000 people… Why is that not enough for you?”
— Linda ([50:53])

7. Brand DNA & Lessons Learned

• Do It Genuinely, Do It Yourself: Linda is still personally involved in customer support and product design.
• Don’t Compare or Copy: She never watched competitors; focus on your own lane ([61:19-61:48]).
• Action Beats Procrastination: Founder ADHD and gut instincts create momentum—don’t over-strategize ([25:38], [27:19]).
• Mistakes = Learning: Not enough early hires, underestimating demand, and ignoring the need for system infrastructure ([18:24], [48:04]).

“There’s signals and there’s noise. Don’t copy the noise. Follow the signal.”
— Camille ([61:17])

8. The Emotional Cost and Rewards of Building

• Imposter Syndrome and Grieving the Sale: Linda reflects on imposter syndrome, not realizing her achievements, and the grief of selling her “baby” ([31:31], [53:57]).
• Staff Loyalty: Caring for, retaining, and rehiring her core team remains central ([33:11]).

9. Culture, Trends & Retail Insights

• Retail Reimagined: Gentle Monster admired for experience; traditional sunglass retail lags—Linda won’t copy, she’ll innovate her own way ([59:31-60:43]).
• Focus on Affordability: Never raised prices despite inflation/tariffs, to keep up with fans’ cost-of-living pressures ([45:35-46:28]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Building from Scratch:
  “$165. Like, even a $10,000 check is not much. Maybe 25 years ago, a $10,000 check would have been great.” ([08:52])
• On Viral Collaborations:
  “We did $7 million in 12 minutes… Shopify rang us… ‘Do not ever do that to us again!’” ([14:30-15:33])
• On Not Chasing Corporate Validation:
  “Put me in a boardroom and it kills my soul. I’m not a corporate girly.” ([26:10], [35:23])
• On Community:
  “I answer every single person… Even if there’s 200 in my inbox.” ([34:03])
• On True Passions:
  “If you’re passionate about what you do, you don’t work a day in your life.” ([53:29])
• On Brand Philosophy:
  “I think me coming back into the market thinking, can I trust myself to do it again? Can I do it again? Can I do it without leveraging off that I have built a brand before…?” ([41:36])
• On Strategy:
  “Don’t procrastinate… Things don’t have to be polished… Sometimes I’d rather see the fuck ups.” ([27:19-28:05])
• On Not Imitating:
  “I don’t kind of care what other people are doing… Don’t watch what anybody else is doing.” ([61:19])
• The Power of Micro-influencers:
  “That girl that's got the 5,000 followers, that’s 5,000 people…” ([50:53])
• On Teamwork:
  “My team work with me, not for me. I’ve never told them to do something I don’t do.” ([33:31])

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Important Timestamps

• 03:08 — Starting sunglasses business, humble beginnings
• 05:00 — Kylie Jenner first wears Key, start of influencer strategy
• 14:30 — Desi Perkins collab: $7 million in 12 minutes
• 18:24 — Mistakes and lessons, hiring & infrastructure
• 30:33 — Selling Key; unplanned exit, impact on her and her team
• 41:36 — Reinventing with Otra, testing her own skills again
• 45:35 — Brand ethos: affordability and community first
• 53:29 — Life lesson: passion is the secret, not money
• 61:19 — Don’t copy noise, follow the signal

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Recurring Themes and Takeaways

Founders’ Grit and Authenticity

Linda’s journey epitomizes the power of resilience, self-belief, and genuinely caring about your product and people—over formal education, industry dogma, or surface branding.

Community Before Trend

Linda’s hands-on engagement, respect for fans of all sizes, and refusal to chase influencer hype for its own sake, show building a real “tribe” always wins over viral "chasing."

Execution > Ideas

Quick pivots, relentless drive, and not waiting for things to be perfect are central to Linda’s successes (and acknowledged mistakes).

Never Underestimate "Small" Influencers

Working with micro and mid-tier influencers nets as much ROI, if not more, than chasing the most famous names—they drive loyalty and authenticity.

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Final Reflections

Linda Hammond’s story is a testament to building—from both the gut and the ground up. She rejects over-polished, copycat branding in favor of instinct, customer-first thinking, community, and never losing sight of her roots. Whether you want to build the next big fashion brand or understand genuine modern marketing, this episode is a gold mine of lessons and laughs.

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Host Closing:
“Don’t watch anybody else. Don’t copy the noise. Follow the signal.” (Camille, [61:17-61:19])

Find Linda:
@otra on Instagram — Try “The Veil” shield sunglasses ([69:05])

Transcript

[A]

Don't watch what anybody else is doing. I never watched when bigger brands with, you know, when I was with Key, I never watched what other people were doing. I didn't care.

[B]

There's so much of like, oh, they did this. Let's copy and paste that. There's signals and there's noise. Don't copy the noise. Follow the signal.

[A]

Instagram was really the turning point for the brand. Apparently the sisters and the mum were fighting, so we would actually have a rule. You send one, you send 10, but

[B]

you literally have everybody wearing them.

[A]

That gives me a buzz because I think they have a choice.

[B]

How do you win? Create a great product, my friends.

[A]

That's as simple as it is.

[B]

It's not going to be everyone, but find your tribe.

[A]

That's it. And even that girl that's got the 5,000 followers, that's 5,000 people.

[B]

Like, why is that not enough for you? Feel like sunglasses is in that weird place of, like, you're almost cooler because, like, the margin's stupid.

[A]

My models are always dressed in Zara. If I'm out there promoting a $65 pair of glasses, I'm not going to dress them in high end.

[B]

It wasn't a cheap brand. It was affordable.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

It isn't a mistake that you've been successful twice. Like, you're involved in every detail. Like, nothing is below you.

[A]

No.

[B]

And that's the difference. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. I am joined with the queen of fashion, Sunglasses. Do you think it's a fair title?

[A]

I don't know. I still don't. Don't refer to myself that way.

[B]

What do you refer to yourself as?

[A]

I know. I think I've got imposter syndrome. Even to this day, when you're sitting

[B]

in your hyperbaric chamber

[A]

working on my laptop. Yeah. I don't know. I think when you're in the grind of it daily, you actually don't realize what you build.

[B]

Ain't that the truth?

[A]

Everybody around me used to be like, oh, my God. Do you realize what you guys have done as a family? Because we were a family unit. Yeah. Yeah. Husband and wife, kid. Everyone was like, how are you and your husband still together running a business? We just knew each other's role. But everyone would say to me, like, do you realize what you've done? Like, what you've built? I still don't.

[B]

You speak so lovingly about your husband. Do you think that the. The reason for that, in working together was because you had clear roles, Correct.

[A]

Exactly. He knew that I'm a million miles an hour. He knew that from early days. We've been together since we were teenagers.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

We got married when I was 17.

[B]

No way.

[A]

And had our kid at 19.

[B]

No way.

[A]

So we've been together. We'll be married 35 years this year. It's. It's crazy.

[B]

And then I've got goosebumps. How often do you hear that? And to a very modern business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you guys didn't inherit, like a concrete business or like a pylon business. No, it's like a fashion business.

[A]

Yeah. And neither of us, um. This is probably quite interesting. Both of us left school at 14.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. So I love school. And then all of a sudden I hated school. And I'm like, this is not for me. My husband Left school at 14. My husband was a butcher. I went straight into sales. So I think I had the gift of the gab. He's the one who decided that we were going to do sunglasses.

[B]

Why?

[A]

We wanted to go to Bali. So we literally started a sunglass business selling at market stalls and festivals. We had $165 in our bank.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And we started. We bought $165 of glasses. Had no idea what we were doing. Rocked up to a market and sold $500 worth. We were like, right, we earn a wage, let's not spend it. Let's just turn that 500 back into stock. And it just. It snowballed from there. So we never, ever borrowed a cent to our business.

[B]

So you guys kind of foresaw the festival market?

[A]

We did. Yeah. So we had friends that were doing. We had a run called Big Day Out. Very much like the Coachella of now, but it was in each state. So we would pack up a van and we were like, you know, just van people at the time. We knew that festival run was our time. And it was four to five months a year. We'd work and then we'd do nothing for the rest of the year.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Until a light bulb moment where I got a customer from Canada in winter, a wholesale customer. And I'm walking around my warehouse packing their order with a beanie on and a big sweater on. And I'm like, there's life outside of Australia.

[B]

Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Because that was probably before Too social. Really took off.

[A]

It was before Instagram.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And it's a. You know, Instagram Was what, 2013?

[B]

Yeah. Something like that?

[A]

Something like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Two friends of mine in, we're at Vegas one night and they're like, why don't you have Instagram? And I'm like, what's that? And I still thank him to this day because we literally. I think Instagram was really the turning point for the brand.

[B]

Well, because you also got one of the most iconic people that started on Instagram to rep the brand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's talk about her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're talking about Kylie Jenner.

[A]

Yep. So I was a Kardashian fan and never was ashamed to say that. That I would sit there and that was just like my. My turn off moment, watching it. And I was sitting there one day and Kylie was wearing a pair of sunnies and her mum's like, I'm sick of you going into my wardrobe and stealing my stuff. And I'm like, wait. And I paused it and it was key.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So it was my brand and I'm like, what the hell? What's just happened? I think Kylie must have been 14 or something at the time. Then we started gifting. So we had a PR company and they're like, you need to start gifting. And I'm like, I'm not paying people to wear my product. Why am I giving product to people who can afford it? I didn't understand the concept of what PR was at the time and the importance of it. So the PR company for months and months were like, give us a go, Give us one month, we'll prove you. So in the first two weeks, we had Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga was at her peak. Gwen Stefani could not get enough. Every pap shot Gwen Stefani was in then at the point where the Kardashian family was. Were told, they told our pr, you are not allowed to send one pair, you have to send 10. Because apparently the sisters and the mum were fighting. Were fighting. I want that. Why are you sending that to her and not to me? So we would actually have a rule. You send one, you send 10.

[B]

And back then, the whole, like, influencer gifting of it all hasn't become what it is now.

[A]

No, it wasn't monetized back then. And I think that's seen a real shift now in organic growth. I think sometimes it's. I don't see it as a good thing because it's hard for smaller brands to compete with the corporate brands. I went into the philosophy with a second brand that I run it on an oily rag. Like, I'm a startup so my wealth doesn't Come into the brand. Yeah. Because I want to be genuine to where I was the first time round.

[B]

Like, you're. I mean, I'm being a bit derogative, but like Gypsy saw that out of the back of a van.

[A]

Like almost like school dropouts. Not knowing what we were doing, winging it, designing glasses that we'd never done before. We were like, what the hell are we doing?

[B]

So you were designing them too? You weren't just like picking them up from like a factory?

[A]

No. So the first time we sent money to China, we lost it. So we sent a couple of thousand dollars to a factory in China and they weren't even real.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, I didn't even find them then.

[B]

How'd you find them?

[A]

We went to China and it was like an ice cream store.

[B]

But where did you find them?

[A]

Online, Alibaba or something at the time.

[B]

It's hilarious.

[A]

So we'd done. We, you know, did our first lot of money, so we jumped on an airplane and went there. That was probably the most eye opening thing for me as a female. This is going back 25 years ago. We'd go there. It was my husband and myself. Sometimes our son would be off school, so he'd come, we'd be in the factory and I'd be looking around and, you know, telling them what we wanted and creating stuff. And at the end, they wouldn't shake my hand. Wow. And I'd be standing there and my husband knew that I was very strong female, like world's female. And he used to say to them, you shake her hand, she's gonna write you the check. She's the boss. So he actually made them give me the respect that I deserved. Cool. Yeah. And that was 25 years ago. Life's changed now, but I still feel as though there's not enough of us in this world that can just get out there and figure it out.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I'm so excited to talk to you is like, you're so real.

[A]

I am very real. I think I'm very approachable because I did do it tough. Like we didn't have a $10,000 startup check.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

$165.

[B]

Like, even a $10,000 check is not much.

[A]

You know, like maybe 25 years ago, a $10,000 check would have been great. Yeah, great. But we had full time jobs too, so we didn't leave our full time jobs for a while until my husband said, you can't do both. I was a sales rep. I was an interior decorator. Oh, cool. Yeah. That's.

[B]

So were you the designer for the glasses?

[A]

We both were.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yep. So we both equally had a spin on it. And that's where the blurred line was. That's the only blurred line. But we loved creating together. Everything else was like, this is. I was front end. My husband was back end.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

So he'd do all the processing and, you know, we would shipping into Nordstrom and all that sort of stuff, warehousing stuff, and. But for a very long time, it was out of our lounge room.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yep. Our first warehouse was a spare bedroom.

[B]

What was the first, like, the first moment that really got you? Because, like, we've kind of jumped, like, so we. You're selling it out. You're what? Like, what happened to get you kind of to take North America and the rest of the world more serious?

[A]

We were invited with G' Day USA into LA once. And I thought, why not? I don't know what I'm doing, but why not? So I turned up and it was a little tent downtown la, when this is before downtown was gentrified. And I was standing there and a girl walks up. She had a can of bourbon. She puts it down and she goes, oh, tell me about your glasses. I told her about him. And she goes, oh. She goes, I've got a ebay business, but I'm just about to open a website. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's cool. Just got a talking. It was Sophia from Nasty Girl.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

A can of bourbon.

[A]

Can of bourbon.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because she was such a cool chick and she just. She owned it. She was who she was. She was a startup. She was on ebay. So I didn't really realize the magnitude of Nasty Girl at that stage. Cause I didn't really know the American market.

[B]

I didn't even know she started on ebay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah. So we went along. We started selling to her. So I think there was three brands that really climbed the ladder quite quickly, which would have been Nasty Girl. Jeffrey Campbell and Keith at the time.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah. It was like the three of us just went.

[B]

And it was like, kind of black, it was stylish, and it was. And it was an affordable alternative to, like, fashion.

[A]

Correct. And when we entered the US Market, we didn't realize one thing important. No one knew the word sunnies.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So I'd come in and I'd be like, oh, I've got a sunnies brand. What? What's that? I'm like, sunglasses. Because I didn't realize it was probably an Australian term. Sunnies. Now it's used widely. And secondly, I didn't realize that there wasn't a middle market. So you either had gas station pricing or.

[B]

Expensive.

[A]

Expensive.

[B]

Because it's like a. It's like an oligarchy. It's like two brands that own everything.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

There was nothing that sat under that higher brand over the hundred or your $10 glasses. And we came in and we created that market, and I think we didn't realize that until later on.

[B]

It's funny because when you just said those three brands, I stopped myself because it was like, it was more of the fast fashion before that became ugly. Like before that came. That became gross. Because there was a need for. You want a sunglass to maybe wear out on like a boat on the weekend that might not be your Maui gym that you're doing like a Monday to. I only say that kind of laughingly because, like, those lenses are so great. I love that pair, but I don't need them when I'm going to a brunch with my girlfriends. I want more like the key sunglasses that you had. And that was. It's so crazy that that was a gap in the market.

[A]

Yeah. We just didn't know. We were like, what? What do you mean?

[B]

It's scary that someone figured that out.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is only going back, what, 2009. So this is not that long ago. Yeah. So we had created this market and not realize that people were hungry for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Instagram happened and people were hungry for that. And I tapped into the beauty market no one else was doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I teamed up with some pretty powerhouse beauty influencers.

[B]

Were they the difference?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You think more than a Kylie?

[A]

Yes. Kylie had the name. Absolutely. But the beauty influences were real.

[B]

Well, they had YouTube followers. They were like family. Their followers. They, like, lived and breathed every. I remember totally. It was Nicole Guerrero. Wear your glasses all the time. Jaclyn Hill. Like, they were. And that's who I was watching in high school.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So we sort of tapped into that market where no one else had had crossed over from fashion to beauty. And I was like, well, why wouldn't they? All they're doing is showing their face. It's like that square box.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I thought, that's all I need. Sometimes it's a bit hard with eyewear where you have to show an outfit. We just wanted someone who was doing their face. Yeah, yeah. And again, the beauty girl loved it because if they didn't want to do makeup and go out, they just put on A pair of sunnies.

[B]

The thing that was so cool, when I think back about your brand, is that you had the influencers, but you also had the distribution.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Like what came first?

[A]

I would say the influencers. Yep. We found it very hard to keep up. Very hard to the point, through a

[B]

direct to consumer lens. Like through selling through on the website. What was online sales like back then? Were website sales as big? I can't remember.

[A]

Not as big. I feel as though Shopify wasn't a massive thing yet. That came in 2015, 2016, when we launched a beauty influencer.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And I've spoken about this before, which is just crazy, crazy days. We launched this influencer not realizing her audience was so obsessed with her. We did $7 million in 12 minutes.

[B]

No way. Can I guess who it is?

[A]

Yeah, you can guess.

[B]

Sold 7 million in 12 minutes. A beauty influencer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was it Tati Westbrook?

[A]

No.

[B]

Gigi Gorgeous?

[A]

No.

[B]

Can you give me a letter D? Desi Perkins?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

No way. Seven million in 12 minutes. I feel like, like Alex Earl this week launched real actives and it did 5 mil on the first day.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

But your numbers trumped that. I don't know if there's many other people that have done that.

[A]

No. We literally pissed off Shopify. Shopify rang us and some head of Shopify said, I want to speak to your CEO. I got on the phone like a scared little kid and they're like, do not ever do that to us again. What are you talking about?

[B]

Infrastructure?

[A]

Yeah. They were actually having. And I didn't understand it at the time. They were like, we were taking bandwidth off other websites to stop yours crashing. Because I believe. Were they with an Amazon server or something like that. They were like. And I think it was the same day Kylie launched a lip kit.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

So we didn't time it that way at all. We didn't know. So we sold out. And then we were like, how the hell do we pack all this?

[B]

How big were you then?

[A]

Team of 10.

[B]

Wow. 7 million in 12 minutes.

[A]

And we were doing our own warehousing. No 3 pls back then. Downtown warehousing.

[B]

Those are the best days, though.

[A]

Absolutely Loved it. No sleep. 17 hour days. We had staff that were literally putting their head on the counter in between packing orders because Everybody gave it 150%.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And that was a turning point.

[B]

And then you were like, let's get this into stores.

[A]

We were in stores. But I think that that was really a turning point for the brand with the Exposure that we got and doing something that no one else had thought about. Crossing over into the beauty world.

[B]

Really fascinating. I mean, it's interesting you're using beauty because you're right. But it also was a time of where people hadn't seen these like built in audiences with like non celebrity people before.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Like, it was a really kind of a weird turning point of like, these people live in Milwaukee and Minnesota, but they've got such crazy buying power. And you would have like, because it's, it's simple to think Scarlett Johansson, you know, will sell. But. But they didn't. It was these random women. Yeah, not random, but random in context.

[A]

No, exactly. It's not a big celebrity name. No, they, and you know, I quickly found out that people that weren't in the beauty world didn't know who these people were. No, no one had heard of the three people.

[B]

They actually turned their nose down at them. Lisa Eldridge is a client and she's like, I started creating YouTube videos and she's like, she was a huge makeup artist, like Vogue and you know, like the who's who in the zoo from the makeup artist world. And when she started on YouTube, they were like, what are you doing? This is so embarrassing. And she's like, it's not for you, it's for, it's for these women that are sitting at home that don't get access to someone like me. And look at her now. She's got something like 4 million followers on YouTube and like she's got a community.

[A]

I was going to say that is the early community without having to, you know, go out there and do nowadays guerrilla marketing to get community. The community were going to her.

[B]

It's an invaluable, an invaluable thing that these early people saw. So interesting. So that was a really big turning point. What was a mistake you made during those early days?

[A]

Not having enough staff, not having the infrastructure, not realizing that we didn't know it all. Look, I don't think we ever had the attitude or the ego that we knew at all. But I think that we should have got help earlier on.

[B]

Like, what kind of help?

[A]

Just more dedicated people. We thought, oh, we can run a business with 10 people. My husband and I were flying. We had three offices. We had one in London, one in the US and one back home in Australia. And we ran on an oily rag. Still, I had the most dedicated staff that just loved the buzz and the energy of what we'd created and were coming along with the ride. But the Mistakes I made were never had enough stock, never forecast properly. These sort of things never popped into our head because we were so intensely in the business every day. Working in it and not above it.

[B]

Yeah. And not on.

[A]

Not on it. We should have got experts into the business earlier on to say, hey, this is what you need to do. We were just. I don't even think I had time to hire anyone.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. We would sit at home and we'd be barcoding tags, watching tv.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

Yep. Even when we were doing those numbers, someone had to do it, and if it wasn't getting done, who was gonna do it?

[B]

But even in my own business, it's so complicated to know when. Like, sometimes it's also detrimental to scale too early.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what is kind of that sweet spot you think, from a sales where you need to bring in those more serious people?

[A]

I think, you know, you get to the point where, you know, where it's too thinly spread, especially your D2C customers are the ones who suffer. We never wanted that. We always wanted to be that. Here's your tracking number. You know, you're gonna get it. You're gonna love it. I think we built a community before the community word really existed as well on what we tapped into. So I think there has to be a time where you're like, too many mistakes are being made. We're constantly sold out. We've got people constantly, like, when are you getting it back in? I didn't want to turn my community away because I'd created such a demand for the product that I felt as though it could have got to the point where it imploded on the success.

[B]

Well, that's what I was going to ask is, like, obviously it's a hindsight question, but do you think the lack of inventory and how it was structured, if that had been fixed earlier, would have made your sale even bigger?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Yep. And again, in hindsight, I didn't realize the pulling power of beauty girls.

[B]

Well, how could you?

[A]

No one could. It's. No one had written that rule book yet. There wasn't. The beauty influencers weren't doing brand deals back then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No one cared about them. They were like. They were in the beauty world. They don't cross over into the fashion world. So I just. And, you know, the funny story is that two influencers came into my office. One of them was Desi. And. And I remember saying to my husband, she didn't come in to do a deal. She came in to pick up some sunnies and I said to my husband, we need to do a collab with her. And he goes, what's that? And I said, let's just team up with her and see. See what happens. I think she had 300,000 followers at the time.

[B]

I remember that collab.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I remember that collab really breaking the Internet. I think I actually found out, like, I remember knowing who she was, but her really coming on my radar because that was also a thing that really hadn't been done before either. Like, it was a new concept.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. And I think also the trust that we had with our customers, Kurt Cobain's daughter, Frances Bean, I had her credit card. Every time we'd get a new sunglass in, she'd be like, just charge my card, send it to me. I mean, the trust of having Frances Bain Cobain. She came into our office, she hung out for hours, because I think that she was like, oh, this is not a corporate life. This is actually a family business.

[B]

And it. You feel the value, right. Because, like, they're so fashionable and you don't feel guilty. Like, you. It feels icky to have, like, 30 Chanel sunglasses.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It didn't. And you built this cool brand around it where it wasn't cheap, like it there. It wasn't a cheap brand. It was just. It was affordable.

[A]

Cool. Yep, exactly. I feel like there was a thing. I worked in a toy shop when I was very young, and we used to call it a shut up gift. And it was at the front counter. So if the kid's screaming.

[B]

So Australian shut up gift.

[A]

It was literally like a $5 gift.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And it was enough for that kid

[B]

to put the sunglass wipes. Yeah.

[A]

I feel as though we entered the market where we're like, you can't afford new outfit. Yeah, you can afford. I think key was like, 30 or 40 bucks back then. Yeah. You could afford that. And it freshens up your whole outfit, but it also makes them feel good when it gets to their front door.

[B]

It's the lipstick effect.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And that's why she wanted your credit card on file, as it was a small gift that would show up and it wasn't gross.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. Shay Mitchell. Shay Mitchell reached out to me on DMs.

[B]

It was desi Perkins and Shay Mitchell. That, to me, were your most iconic collabs.

[A]

Yep. And I can tell you, Shay Mitchell was so involved in it.

[B]

Canadian, too.

[A]

Yes. Yes. And she was so involved in the design process. I appreciated it, though.

[B]

Like, sunglasses are so much cooler than, like, a blush or A lip gloss. It's like. Yeah, you transform with the. It's confidence.

[A]

Absolutely. And, you know, I had. I was in New York only a few days ago and I was with some fashion editors and they nailed it. They said, New Yorkers don't like eye contact. Which I'd never actually known.

[B]

Ain't that the truth?

[A]

And they said New Yorkers love sunglasses. Cause you don't have to actually interact with anyone. And I'm like, that's why we. The new brand is so popular in New York, even when there's a snow blizzard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you can put them on. It's that. Do you remember that movie with Adam Sandler? It's got the little kid.

[B]

Oh, yes. Um, the super famous one.

[A]

Yeah. Something daddy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the little kid puts his sunglasses on the. The aviators to disappear. And I'm like, this serves two purpose. You either feel really great when you put them on or you don't have to make eye contact with people.

[B]

It's a great social media post.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, yeah, we'll take a note on that.

[B]

No, you're not wrong. I mean, there's so. I mean, I feel like that's a lot of major city markets. I moved recently outside of the city and I'm like, literally, to my husband, I'm like, people say hi and they make eye contact when you walk. I'm like, it's normal, but I have to adjust. It's too weird in the beginning, like.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But one of the things that's like, people that can. It's so interesting to talk to you because you were at such a critical growth trajectory for these things that have just become commonplace, like influencers gifting Coachella. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You were the first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To so many things.

[A]

And not realising at the time, because I didn't re. I didn't understand why people weren't already doing it. I don't have the business degree.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't that funny? Sometimes I think that's the gift.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't overthink it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just go with your gut.

[A]

That's one thing. I'm not a procrastinator. I think having ADHD and high functioning, I literally. My husband and I, we don't procrastinate on anything. The homes that we've bought, we've walked in and gone. Yep. That'll do. Because I think if you procrastinate, you miss the boat.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

And I think that people nowadays are overthinking and strategizing so much. And, you know, I'm Not. Definitely not. A corporate girly. Put me in a boardroom and it kills my soul.

[B]

Same because you'll want to work harder, but you just have to be in your own framework.

[A]

Yeah. I'm quite happy sitting on my sofa at home or on my dining table and designing and having music in the background and not having that corporate structure because I think too much strategy, sometimes it slows things down.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I'm the sort of person, I'll do things on the fly.

[B]

I mean it's such a great adage. Like ideas are everywhere. Execution is everything.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

And I get hired all the time and people are like, oh yeah, we were thinking that. I'm like, okay. But that's the difference is that you guys said it one time and didn't act on it and came up with 300 other ideas and this is the one you should have moved on seven months ago so you didn't have to pay me to come up with it.

[A]

Like exactly that. Yeah.

[B]

There's only so many options in which you can decide to move forward. Like there isn't an unlimited number in most cases.

[A]

Yeah. And look, shit happens. You're not 100% guaranteed that everything's going to work. We had some flops in our time obviously over the years, but most of the things turned out right.

[B]

What are your core pivot points? What were core moments that people can learn from?

[A]

Don't procrastinate is gotta be number one.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great one.

[A]

Number one.

[B]

Especially when you were breaking like you were literally moving and breaking things fast.

[A]

Correct. I think that things don't have to be polished. I think that people, you know social media and I love TikTok. I've now become an addict. I'm a. What do you call them? Doom scroller.

[B]

We say it out loud. This is where we admit things here.

[A]

To the point where my husband and I now have. Have our own sofas at home because we're empty nesters.

[B]

Is it like the massage chairs almost.

[A]

We lay on the sofa, not say a word and then there's a giggle and one of us is shared with someone like each other.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah. So. But I think sometimes I'd rather see the fuck ups.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I'd rather a brand sit there. I did it myself. The pair that I've got on my head. In fact, I actually owned it on social media. It was called Fuck Up Friday. And it was literally, I ordered these, I designed them and I'm like, I don't know. One of those ones where I'M like, am I too early? I have that ability to be a little bit too early with my designs. Yeah.

[B]

It's a gift.

[A]

And I'm not a designer. I was never trained as a designer, never went to school as a designer. Comes from my gut instinct. So I minimized the units that I made. The quantities sold out within two weeks.

[B]

Wow. Good problem.

[A]

Good problem. Everyone was screaming, why can't I get it? We've got that problem currently with many styles. Many styles. We've got styles that are just going viral that we can't keep up with the demand.

[B]

But you also know why I find sunglasses to be so hard to access. Like, not only on the price point front, but because it's like Tom Ford will make whatever 300. It's so hard when someone's wearing a pair of sunglasses to like go and find it. Like, for example, like shield glasses. They're so in. This year, when you type in shield glasses on Google, you get 10, but there's way more. And then it's so sketchy to shopping for them because, like, where do you. Where do you go sunglass shopping? The sunglass stores that have like half outdated models. Like, it's such a correct. It's so. It's so weird, the industry.

[A]

Yeah. And I think I had to build that trust back up with, you know, Otra. Yeah, with Otra. Because I'd been out of the market for, you know, seven years, so I had to find those girls again. And who are my girls?

[B]

Was it hard?

[A]

Um, I had to back myself.

[B]

Meaning what? Like, just check yourself. That you had your guts. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Can I do it twice? Did it once. Did it once with a family. Second time round. My husband has a macadamia farm. Has no interest in being in the eyewear. He's like, you do you. I think he said to me at one point that he'd probably kill me if I didn't do something because I was annoying him that much.

[B]

Well, he had his macadamia in pharmacy.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm just go, go, go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I have OCD as well. My home looks like no one lives in it. So you can only clean the floor so many times a day. So he was like, if you want to do it, do it.

[B]

So you sold the company?

[A]

Sold the company. 2016, 2017. We went through a really long due diligence. Funny story there. Business was not for sale. I'd never even heard what a private equity was. I didn't even know what that word was. I googled it again. We Started key without. We didn't. Wasn't to build it, to sell it, or to make money. We just wanted to go on holidays. We had some spare cash. We wanted to go on a holiday. So we're like, how do we get on our holiday when we're earning wages? Not great budgeters, all of that. Built this brand. And then a private equity comes along. We get an email the day after Thanksgiving in our inbox. My husband wakes me up. He's on his iPad in bed. Think, you need to read this email. I'm like, what does that even mean? So it was a private equity out of Boston saying that they'd been watching us for six months and that they wanted to have a chat. So it was a real battle whether I wanted to give that up or not.

[B]

Like, the money. Initially, the money wasn't enough?

[A]

No, it wasn't even the money. Because money was never. Money's a byproduct for us. We were just so passionate about our business, so passionate about what we built, that it didn't matter what they offered us. I mean, they backed the truck up. We got a lot of money out of it. But it was like, are we ready? And I think it was to the point my husband and I had to sit down. We went to Cabo for the weekend. We flew to Cabo with our son. And we said, what do we do? And we said, for the sake of the staff, I think it's time. Because we had such loyal staff, we didn't want the company to implode on itself. Because it could have been at that breaking point of going either way. We were going viral before things were going viral. We were at that time when supreme was huge. Before that private equity deal, we didn't have people lined up on the street. Cause we didn't have a shop front, but we had people lined up on our website.

[B]

Yeah. Virtual lineups.

[A]

Virtual. Before that was probably a thing. I think that we were at about the same time as Lip Kit when things were going viral. When you'd have 20,000 people waiting online for you to launch.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And, you know, we were two high school dropouts. So.

[B]

Did you take care of your team?

[A]

We did. To the point where I've got one of my old team back. So my right hand. I should call her girl, Sam Samantha. When she. She left Cay right after we sold, she said, if you ever do anything, I'm there. And the moment I said to her, I'm back, she goes, I'm there.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yep. So loyalty is a really big Thing. For me, looking after my team is a really good thing. But I've never, ever, and I think this is one big takeaway as well. Not coming from a corporate world. My team work with me, not for me. I've never told them to do something I don't do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm doing DMs at the moment because we just get so many direct messages. That's me answering DMs. Yeah, that's me doing customer service. Sometimes it's the founder difference, though. Yeah.

[B]

You just. You can't. You can't. You can't fake it.

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, you have to be it.

[A]

And once a month, we send out email marketing and it goes to my inbox and I answer everybody. And I get so many holiday pictures of people on vacation wearing Otra, and I answer every single person.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Yep. Even if there's 200 in my inbox, I answer every one of them.

[B]

It's interesting, though. I've got a few questions on this. So you sold it, your board. You know, whatever terms lift, you can move into it. Did you feel like what you had brought into the world was still missing? Like, what. What compelled you to go back into Sunglasses again?

[A]

It was missing. I think, without having an ego. I think when the Hammond family left that business, it really stagnated. Design. Design is such a huge part of any brand. That's where it all begins. With design. That was a missing piece.

[B]

And you felt like that was lost.

[A]

Very lost. And I just. I watched it. I still owned a third of the business over the five years of the journey. We sold just after Covid the last bit, but I sat there and watched.

[B]

It's hard.

[A]

It's really hard because it was on my site, my baby was breaking. People would DM me and be like, why aren't you answering, you know, your customer service? And I'm like, I sold the brand.

[B]

That sucks.

[A]

Yeah, it was hard. It was hard. Cause I was also a board of director.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which is not me.

[B]

No. And that's not fun.

[A]

No, it's not fun. As I was saying, I'm not a corporate girly. I'm not going to sit there and, you know, I don't care about an ebitda. I didn't even know what an EBITDA was until my first board meeting. They're like, do you know that this business could have broke because our EBITDA was 44%.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

When we sold the business.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's a lot of cash wrapped up.

[A]

Yep. It was insane. Yeah. But again, I guess it's imposter syndrome of not knowing what. What we built.

[B]

Wow. I mean, that's literally incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's interesting when you talked about kind of realizing that there was this gap in the market because Ultra has already been so successful with launching. So, like, how is that gap still not filled? You know, like, that's so.

[A]

I don't understand that either. I don't understand that because I came back into the world thinking, I'm so passionate about sunnies. It's almost weird that I love this creation.

[B]

I love them too, though.

[A]

Yeah. It's a weird. And I'm such a boring dresser. I'm quite happy being in pajamas every day. I had a Ferrari after I sold the business and love.

[B]

Was it black?

[A]

It was white. I wrapped it white because I didn't want red because I'm like, only old men drive red Ferraris.

[B]

I feel like you're a black and white girl.

[A]

Yeah. Really? So wrapped it white. It had a black roof. It was convertible.

[B]

See, I knew the black would be in there. I knew it exactly.

[A]

Well, I am in all black today. Driving down the road one day and I'm picking my husband up from the airport and a guy pulls up beside me and he goes, you married money? Because he automatically thought that we had that one other time when they said, oh, isn't that cute that you let your wife drive your car? He goes, it's her car. Yeah. But for me, I'm quite happy wearing pajama pants and ugg boots every day.

[B]

Love the Uggs.

[A]

Where I wear is such a statement piece for me.

[B]

It's also your outfit.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I feel like you can pass off looking way more put together with a great pair of sunglasses.

[A]

Yep. So I think that it's a weird passion of mine that I was like, can I do it again?

[B]

Did you just want to, like, really, like, just see? Like, could I really do this?

[A]

I wanted to prove a point to not only myself, but others out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I could do it. And I wasn't.

[B]

It wasn't a fluke.

[A]

Wasn't a fluke. Cause I think a lot of people thought it was a fluke. And I think coming back into it. Yes. Granted, I do have contacts in the industry, like our amazing PR girlie, Adee Adee. And I was with a D when she was almost a one man band.

[B]

Oh, she really says that. Like, you really believed in her.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I remember giving her the brand and we just. We skyrocketed together.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Yeah. Her business took off, ours took off, we battled a lot of times, which she may tell you, we're very blunt to each other. Yep.

[B]

That's also the best part about her. Like, she's real. She's real. You are real.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think you can fake shit for so long. I can't fake it.

[B]

No.

[A]

I'm not a liar. So I tend to offend people because I'm like, no, we can't do that. But I feel as though the little team that I have with me now, with Otra, they're exactly the same as me.

[B]

I like people like that better. I'd rather it be on the fence face than, like, it be, you know, like hidden or. Yeah, Very, very cool. Why did you pick another four letter word name?

[A]

It's easy to roll off the tongue and I think that Otra is a lot easier than the word key.

[B]

I'm not gonna lie. I really mispronounced your sunglass brand for a long time.

[A]

I've heard so many variations of it over the years. At one point we put a little key on the Instagram, thinking that would work, pronounced key. To this day, I still see videos every now and then where someone says quay. Oh, I thought it was quay.

[B]

There's something about water, right, that makes it like.

[A]

Yeah, it's by the water. It's an English word for by the water.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because we have an area back home called Queen's Quay. It's the same thing. Exactly, but it doesn't make English sense. Like, you wouldn't pronounce that, so you kind of do have to know. And if you don't come across that, you know, how would you.

[A]

And the European name is quay. Anyway, the proper pronunciation in Europe is quay.

[B]

Oh, do you know how it changed?

[A]

I don't. We just had a really big distributor in the. In Europe and they were like, it's quay.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'm like, well, we obviously the English

[B]

Commonwealth, so I would suspect that's probably the tie in. But why do we pronounce it the wrong way?

[A]

No idea.

[B]

I need answers.

[A]

Yeah. Because if you think of Florida Keys, is that K E, Y S? Yeah.

[B]

The regular way.

[A]

Yeah. And that's by the water, right?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah. So the original brand name was Key Eyewear.

[B]

One word.

[A]

Could you imagine wrapping your head around

[B]

that and an Instagram handle?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, maybe that is the handle key Eyewear. Or is it key?

[A]

I think it's key now. I'm not sure. So we changed it To Key Australia.

[B]

That was what it was. Key Australia.

[A]

Yep. And it took off because it was like, oh, brand.

[B]

But also, though, you were again, ahead of all those Aussie boutiques blowing up. There was a time just like, sabo skirt and like, all, like, all these cute girly. Again, before fast fashion was fast fashion. It was a way to get these, like, styles and designs you couldn't get at the mall at a price point. That wasn't disgusting because, again, do you remember Mink Pink? Of course.

[A]

So we were at the same time as Mink Pink. We entered the US Market at the same time. They did.

[B]

What brand is that? Is that an Australian brand? Because they have that in Canada, too. Mink Pink. It was big. It was a great boutique store.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

They had really cute stuff.

[A]

Yeah. And that was that kind of.

[B]

But it went downhill since they must have sold too. It's shit now.

[A]

Yeah. Unfortunately, I think that's where the demise of brands happen.

[B]

It is. And it's the kind of. The worst part about it is that

[A]

it's a numbers game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was never about the numbers game.

[B]

It's actually what shows you the power of a brand. Right. Like, once you build something to this, they can actually do the math that you will still come back and keep buying based on that trust and credibility,

[A]

like people still do now.

[B]

Totally. I mean, how would you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. We got to work on your personal brand. That's what's next.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, how would you know?

[A]

Yeah. And I think me coming back into the market thinking, can I trust myself to do it again? Can I do it again? Can I do it without leveraging off that I have built a brand before because not everybody associates the two brands. Well.

[B]

I think that's kind of the best part, though. It feels almost like you found this new. It's like your secret because it looks super expensive.

[A]

Yeah. And to the point where I think these celebrities don't know the cost of it.

[B]

No.

[A]

They get gifted in.

[B]

But you literally have everybody wearing them.

[A]

Literally everybody.

[B]

Like, it's.

[A]

But it's like, that gives me a buzz because I think they have a choice.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

They have a choice to either wear expensive or vintage, but it doesn't matter. Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not like a purse. Like, people don't, like, aren't like, oh, you know, you're using your Ardine bag today. Like, it's not the same thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, no. If anything, I feel like sunglasses is in that weird place of, like, you're Almost cooler if it's not because, like, the margin's stupid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's no need to pay a thousand bucks.

[A]

Yep. I think I translate that to. Also when I'm doing photo shoots, I don't do photo shoots like anybody else probably does at my level. I'm at the shoots. I did a shoot 2d two days ago. Yeah. I don't know my left or right when I have to tell the model up or down. It was the photographer, the model and myself.

[B]

But I think that's another lesson here of, like, it isn't a mistake that you've been successful twice. Like, you're involved in every detail. Like, nothing is below you.

[A]

No, ever.

[B]

And that's the difference.

[A]

I clean the toilets.

[B]

It's the difference.

[A]

I wouldn't do anything that I would expect my staff to do. I have to do the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Very rarely. Like, I had to ask, you know, my right hand girl, Sam, last night to do something for me in order for me that I couldn't process because I was doing a spreadsheet for Revolve today. My photographer sent me images at 10:30 last night. I was sitting in my hotel on the bed doing spreadsheets, putting lookbooks together.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So I don't outsource that. I have such a passion and an eye for it. I know what I want.

[B]

It also shows you though too, that, like, money, money isn't at all. Like, you really are. Like, you're fired up from the purpose, like from the joy from the drive. And like, this actually is the best part. Like, once you get the exit, you actually come back for.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm doing it purely for fashion. I'm sorry.

[B]

For passion, for love and for fashion.

[A]

Yeah. I couldn't buy stuff even with my six or seven years out of the game. There was nothing I wanted. I went to Gentle Monster.

[B]

They're the coolest though.

[A]

Yeah. I love art. I love art, but they're not an art.

[B]

They're cool for what they do, but they're not like the LA cool girl fashion.

[A]

Correct. So with me, with a shoot, um, you know, I don't know if it's controversial. I go to Zara. My models are always dressed in Zara because it makes sense. If I'm out there promoting a $65 pair of glasses, I'm not going to dress them in high end. My girl can say, oh, shit, I can actually look cool like that.

[B]

No, that is me. I see myself in that model.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's problem matching. Right. Like, I want to look cool on a budget. So you make the models look cool on a budget and they see themselves.

[A]

My model the other day was wearing H and M pants and a Zara tank and my shoes.

[B]

I actually thought, honestly, the photos looked super cool too.

[A]

Yep. She was wearing black barrel pants. And I'm like, if someone asks where the outfit's from, it's affordable. She was probably wearing a 60 outfit.

[B]

You know what, you actually should link the outfit. I feel like that's actually an iconic, even like, next move.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To like, shop the whole look and

[A]

they can see that I'm not. It's not a high, low fashion here. I'm promoting that you can afford. Especially with the cost of living.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

The world is hurting right now with the cost of living. And for me, if I can help someone feel better. We didn't put our price up when the tariffs went up.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

I actually went on my socials and said, we are going to actually wear the cost for as long as whatever's happening in the world. We haven't put our price up. Cool. Even when every raw material went up eight days ago, still didn't put our prices up.

[B]

You know what's cool? I feel like the people that are really dedicated founders have this language. I was with Rebecca Minkoff yesterday and she said the same thing. She's like. She was talking about another founder brand that was there and she's like, now that I know the cost of manufacturing, she's like, I can't spend 700 on a cashmere cardigan. She's like, I just can't do it. And I feel like you've. When you're kind of in. When you're so into it and you're so passionate and. And you see through it, like you just can't do it in good conscience.

[A]

Yeah. I can't justify. So I couldn't do that to my. I would call them. I think we've already built that community. We have girls that are on their seventh or eighth purchase. We have collectors even more than that.

[B]

Yeah, collectors. Amazing.

[A]

We have collectors. We have people now that are like, oh, my God, my son is from two years ago. I really want another pair. And we're like, sorry, we don't have them anymore. And we will go on Google search and try and find someone who's got them for them.

[B]

Oh, that's cool.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

When it comes to, like, how you launch new products outside of having pr, which is, you know, fine in its own box, are you feeling like you need to do these, like, Heavy influencer pushes with new camp, like with new campaigns coming out or do they sell kind of themselves?

[A]

I think they sell themselves. Yeah. I think I just want to be really genuine. I want the younger girls coming into this industry, whether it be eyewear, fashion, beauty, anything like that, that are like, I can do it too. And that's why I really made a point with this, that I didn't bring my wealth into this brand. And I've always said that to anyone, even as a PR event where you

[B]

don't look at my pockets.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. My pockets are not for the business. I am a startup. We're only. We'll be three years old in May. I'm still a startup at three years old. I'm still running it on an oily rag. There's four of us in the business.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

No one realizes that I'm answering their DMs. I'm answering, you know, these monthly emails where they're showing me vacation photos or telling me, you know, they've just had a baby or I'm actually answering them.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You said in the beginning of this episode that, you know, if you had had that $10,000 check when you started the second business, what were those non negotiables that you started with?

[A]

Building a system in the back end. I think it's really important. So we spent months at my dining room table, Sam and myself, building out an infrastructure. I think that I'd learned from the first business. If you don't have a good infrastructure, then it goes to shit really quick.

[B]

What does that mean? Like a HubSpot? Like a what?

[A]

An ERP system? A brain. The brain. Building out Shopify, getting developers on Shopify. We learned a lot ourselves. We build a lot of things ourselves still. We try not to outsource everything. We try and figure it out.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah, I think that. And also getting people that are not influencers, where you're having to pay them, because I think it's a bit unfair that there are lots of large companies out there that will throw huge money. And it's. I guess it's not fair for the girl coming up that sits there and she's comparing herself to a big business. We all do it on social.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We all compare ourselves to somebody else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think it's really disheartening for a young girl who's trying to break into the industry to go, you know, they've contacted and it is monetized. The influencer, I see their side too. It's a business. It's their brand. But I think that the takeaway is that this startup business can find community girls that will work with them. And I think I've found that again, even without using that. I have got 25 years in the business. They're just looking at my website even before the celebrity started wearing it. It's a cool brand. I just say to them, let's do a contra basis. I'll gift you. You need to send me some photos.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

So that's how I built that.

[B]

And I guess that's like a good takeaway for people listening is this kind of feeling like you're in this rat race of pay to play if your product is cool enough? You don't.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

But I think that's a really important detail, though, that people look over is they just expect. They expect so much without also hearing the hard facts of, like, if your product isn't cool on its own, you gotta pay. Correct. But if your product is cool on its own, that's where you can get these windfalls. Because the people want to genuinely wear your product.

[A]

Correct. Yeah.

[B]

I was actually saying that right before. I had a business call right before, and I was like, you know, I got gifted some product from a clothing brand and they asked if they could post the vote. I'm like, absolutely, you deserve that. Like, I'm not going to charge you for that. You gifted me products. I enjoyed it and I genuinely like wearing it. And like, that to me is, yeah, use the photo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're right. Like, it's not going to be everyone, but find your tribe.

[A]

That's it. And even that girl that's got the 5,000 followers, that's 5,000 people.

[B]

Isn't that hilarious?

[A]

You get 5,000 people in a stadium or you feel 15 airplanes.

[B]

When was the last time you were. You were in front of 5,000 people?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, why is that not enough for you?

[A]

Yeah. We get reached out by girls that have got 2,000, and I look and I'm like, that makes sense. And they are so appreciative.

[B]

Totally. I actually think that people think that getting like a Kim Kardashian is the difference. Seldom it is. Because also, too, there's so much noise. She's posting so much. She seems so out of touch. And people think it's purchased. But when you see a girl that's got 2, that's got 5, that's got 15, or if you even have someone with more that genuinely stops what they're doing and they're like, these are my favorite sunglasses. And they only cost 65 or $85. But like, stop looking for the big things.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a testament to that is I'm doing a photo shoot tomorrow with a influencer who's got maybe 2, 300,000 followers. We had a sunglass that we couldn't sell. Couldn't sell. I offered it to an off price retailer. They took it off the spreadsheet. This girl wore it and it went viral. So tomorrow we're doing a collab with her with three colors in that frame that. No way. Yep.

[B]

Well, by the time this goes out, it'll be over. So tell. Who is it?

[A]

Her name's Christine Lee and the frame is called Derby. It's just a really cool, you know, you would see the girl in Japan wearing it, the street fashion, the tomboy girl.

[B]

Oh, cool about finding your audience.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And that's actually the power though of digital is that you don't have to play by the retailer's rules anymore.

[A]

No.

[B]

Find that cool chick that's got her own, own style in her own niche. Right before Linda and I started recording, there was these super cool sisters that are like chess masters that were in this youth. The space where we're recording, they're huge YouTubers. And I'm like, that's such an untapped audience. Like, find those people.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Their audience is not going to be the Desi Perkins of the world. But like there's still 1.9 million females that follow them.

[A]

They have such a cool factor because they're not following the tribe.

[B]

Wouldn't that be such a cool collab, like with chess pieces, like, love them. I f cking love them.

[A]

Yep. Sisters for one thing. So it's a family unit. And the fact that they're not. They're not playing by any rule book.

[B]

No.

[A]

To see two young hot girls, super hot.

[B]

Who play chess, Ms. Botez, the botet

[A]

sisters, they should be on everybody's radar.

[B]

What's a life lesson?

[A]

You live by whatever you do, you need to be passionate about it. I think that's a huge life lesson. I heard it early on. Don't remember who quoted. And it was like, if you're passionate about what you do, you don't work a day in your life.

[B]

Ain't that the truth.

[A]

And I've done 20 hour days. I've done 100, 150 hour weeks, if that's even possible. And I never hated it. I love that even to the day I sold it. And I think I had to. I went through a grieving process. When we sold it, I bet it was a.

[B]

It was a death.

[A]

It was a death. We went to Cabo again. So we went. Cabo's our place. We decided to sell it. I went there. I didn't eat for four days.

[B]

But you went with your gut. It still felt right.

[A]

Yes and no.

[B]

Would you go back and make a different decision? Yep.

[A]

Absolutely. Yep.

[B]

Are you going to keep Otra?

[A]

Yeah, I'm going to be the Betsy Johnson of the eyewear world. I can't wait. Well, I am in my 50s now and I'm still doing it, but I feel as though my audience is probably a little older too, than that festival girl.

[B]

Yeah. Well, you didn't do Coachella this year.

[A]

No, no. I think there's a lot of noise. Coachella is an exciting thing for a lot of brands, but I think you have to have a big budget, huge budget to make any noise, to make any impact. And that's just not for us.

[B]

I feel like you've really mastered the strategy of underpriced attention. You know, like go where people aren't looking, where you can just get absolute arbitrage.

[A]

Absolutely. And as you were saying before, you know, you don't play by the retailer's book. Retailers notice that, they notice that. That you are different. We, next week we're launching in Bloomingdale's.

[B]

I was gonna say, are you in retail this time?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Where do you think retail's going?

[A]

It's an interesting time. I don't think anyone has a. A magic ball for that at the moment.

[B]

Like, as long as we are carbon, you know, four dimensional creatures, there's still going to be a demand to go inside. But I think the problem is that they're trying to impose upon us a way that things what, like, was. Were before, but, like, when everything else around us has changed and they won't innovate. I think that's why the gentle monster experience is just. It's why it's so success is that. Yeah, they're just speaking to like, our overstimulated brain and like giving us something when we, when we leave the house. We want a full experience. You don't want to, like, go into your shitty sunglass department section and be like, barrage by someone and then I'll have like. They're the, like, security things where you can't really try it on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You want the robot. Yeah.

[A]

And I think that with our social, like, we don't have a huge social media following. It's very hard these days.

[B]

It's hard to grow.

[A]

Hard to grow.

[B]

I was going to ask you that actually.

[A]

So with key I had it to 850,000. I would post a picture of a pair of sunnies sitting on a floor and get 25,000 likes. It was insanity. Now you're lucky to get 30 50.

[B]

You're literally doing backflips.

[A]

It's like maybe 30 likes. Here's me backing myself when I'm saying that we've just ticked over 30,000 followers.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Over three years. It's not what it used to be.

[B]

Over three years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you've been in OCHA for three years.

[A]

Three years. In May we'll be three. Yep. We spent the first six to eight months really building the back end.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

So that we didn't make the mistakes that we made with the first brand. And I think having, you know, three very strong individual females that have in within internally without our marketing girl, all have their expertise. Cool. Yeah.

[B]

So you have your rules again.

[A]

Absolutely. I don't micromanage anybody quite often. Sam will say to me, do you think this is okay to air freight this? It's more urgent. Sam, you own it.

[B]

Yeah. Do what you need to do.

[A]

Do what you need to do. So I really, I really value my team.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's another thing that's really important for people coming through. Always remember where you came from.

[B]

It's the people too.

[A]

Yeah. Because they're on the journey with you.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

You know, Sam comes to my apartment and works two days a week. Cool. You know, she just walks around my place like it's hers.

[B]

Love.

[A]

Yep. She has a K to my house.

[B]

It's honestly the dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because like you gotta love what you do. Like work is such a big part of life.

[A]

Yeah. Like eight hours a day.

[B]

And like love who you work with and respect them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I don't understand is like I don't understand why people like want the cheapest. Like why wouldn't you want people around you to be more of an equal? Like more of that team. More of that like where it's what a better life to not have to be stressed about every decision.

[A]

Yeah. Like I've. I really do have two really strong willed females in my business. Sam being one. You know, I did a video on my socials two weeks ago. We've got this style that we just can't keep in stock. So I'm like, let's do a vanilla color in it. You know this 2016 movement on socials, like back to 2016. Let's do that one in white with a brown lens. She's like, hell no, you are not. I'm not ordering it. She refused to order it. She does all my production orders. I'm like, Sam, you need to order it. So we actually made a video and posted it to social and she's sitting there drinking her matcha with this foul look on her face and I'm like, I'm gonna prove you wrong. So I shot it yesterday, day before and then revolve. Saw it on my socials and it was only meant to be an online exclusive. They're like, can you go into production for that? So I don't mind proving a point either.

[B]

No, but that's also awesome too. It's like working. I mean, that's also what I'm sure she wants to hear, right? She's like, you know, all tides rise, all boats, you know. But yeah, it's good to have that kind of feedback.

[A]

But we have that connection where she's definitely not intimidated by me.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The best.

[A]

Where she's like, I'm not gonna order that. But she's also. She was on the journey with Kay. She was in the factories with me.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

Yeah. 15 years ago.

[B]

Do you think that there's a place for OTRA to get into experiential realtail, like Gentle Monster or is that their own thing?

[A]

I think that's our own thing. I'm a very big art lover. I have an uncle who's a world renowned artist.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And I think that's maybe where I get some sort of creativity. I hope. I can't draw. And as we discussed before, I don't know my left from right. I'm left handed. But when I come to the U.S. i don't know which is my left or right. I love that because I'm driving on the other side of the road. I think Gentle Monster does it so well that anybody else. It's an inferior product.

[B]

Isn't that a great point? Like once it's been done, don't. You can't outdo the master.

[A]

No, it's.

[B]

That's their art form.

[A]

And I remember I used to walk into the one downtown just to see the art installation in Australia, Downtown. Here in la they have a Gentle Monster here. They do on Broadway. I used to like, I still see the one at Sydney Airport in International Departures and they've got this big.

[B]

The big head.

[A]

The big head at the moment. And I'm like, that is so cool. I can also Appreciate when other brands do things well.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I agreed. And that's like. Because you're a purveyor of the art form. Right? Like, so you. When you see somebody else doing it in their own way, you're like, exactly.

[A]

And I think I have such tunnel vision. And we did also back in the day, and that's probably why we succeeded. I don't kind of care what other people are doing.

[B]

Yeah, you're doing your own thing.

[A]

I'm doing my own thing. It seems to work. It's worked once and it looks like it's working again.

[B]

Well, that's like. I. I think that's another great lesson without you directly saying it is, like, just figure out who is your brand and do that 100. Don't be like, yeah, there's so much of, like, oh, they did this. Let's copy and paste that. And I'm like, no. Like, once it's been done, like, that works for their brand. Like, sick. Like, there's signals and there's noise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't copy the noise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Follow the signal.

[A]

They must have. At the moment that you decide to start a business, there must be something that pops into your head to say, what can I do better than them? Run with it. Don't worry about what they're doing. Don't watch what anybody else is doing. I never watched when bigger brands with, you know, when I was with Key, I never watched what other people were doing. I didn't care and I don't care now. People say like, oh, did you see what so and so's? No, why would I?

[B]

I'm doing my own thing, my head's down.

[A]

I don't go on other people's websites.

[B]

I. Well, I'm doing lookbooks till midnight. I don't know about time.

[A]

Literally, I'm sitting there doing lookbooks last night and I could see these flashes going on. I'm like, is there lightning in la? It was paparazzi for you. No, not for me. I'm staying across from the sushi park.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So it was Kendall, Kylie and Timothy.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, had I had slippers on, I would have bolted over there with some sunnies.

[B]

You should have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is amazing. That is amazing.

[A]

And also, I'm doing a collab with. I've got another collab coming up with Kylie's stylists.

[B]

Oh, cool. Dani.

[A]

No, the Grand Quiz Sisters.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

They're amazing.

[B]

I mean, they literally plug your product all the time.

[A]

Yeah. And they're always Saying, oh, Kylie wants another pair of Kenny.

[B]

Is that the OGs?

[A]

Yep. They're the ones she's been wearing. I think she wore. She wore the Lulu or the Kenny to Jeff Bezos wedding.

[B]

Oh, cool. Isn't that crazy?

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

But it shows you, though, like, why this is so smart, because she do that as an equivalent to a bag. But sunglasses, it doesn't matter. In fact, I feel like it's almost sometimes cooler for it to not be branded.

[A]

Yep. And I think that there was such a buzz on social media where people were like, we need to find out what brand she's wearing. There was social media posts where there was one girl, in fact, that we contacted and gave her a pair because she tried so hard to find the brand. We found her.

[B]

I mean, that's a great use of, like, resources, is to, like, find those people creating content on it and give it to them.

[A]

One pair. It cost me one pair.

[B]

Oh, it's. So how many did it sell?

[A]

We sold out.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Sold out again. Love that.

[B]

For you.

[A]

Yeah. Everything that, you know, someone, like, Kylie wears sells out. Yet it's a $65 product.

[B]

And, like, you literally couldn't pay for that placement. Like, it's the best. That's why, like, create a great brand. It's like, what is. How do you win? Create a great product, my friends.

[A]

That's as simple as it is.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

Because you can pay that person to wear it. They're gonna wear it once. Cause they're obligated to wear it. And Kylie wears that. She's had four pairs.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Of the same. And they're called Kenny. They're not named after her sister. I had a koala in my tree at home, and I called it Kenny the Koala.

[B]

Did you articulate this to her?

[A]

No.

[B]

This is not named after your sister.

[A]

It was after a really cute koala.

[B]

Linda, quickly tell them. The animals that live on your property, koalas. Isn't that crazy?

[A]

Yep. Snakes. Very big snakes. To the point they come into the house.

[B]

No, thanks.

[A]

Yep. One licked my husband on the nose on his chair. He was on his iPad. Turn around, and it licked him on the nose.

[B]

Did he freak out?

[A]

Yeah, he jumped.

[B]

And then where did the snake go?

[A]

In the chair. So we had to lift the chair out of the house. Yeah. We get spiders that are as big as your hand. Oh, yeah.

[B]

That's, like, one reason why I'm. Sometimes I'm like, I can maybe wait.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have scorpions too?

[A]

We don't. Oh, no, but I. A friend of ours is Robert from Shark Tank.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

Canadian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He sends me videos all the time because he's like, I'm not going to Byron Bay. He sends me videos of snakes in shopping malls. I'm like, well, if you think that's the only thing that we've got in Byron Bay. Yeah.

[B]

But I mean, your house is beautiful.

[A]

It is beautiful.

[B]

It is beautiful.

[A]

And from where we came from, high school dropouts, 165 bucks.

[B]

Best story.

[A]

Yep. Never owed a cent in business.

[B]

You're. You're awesome. You're one of a kind. When's your book coming out?

[A]

I've been asked for the last 10 years to write a book.

[B]

You should.

[A]

Yeah. I think I might offend a few people, though.

[B]

I think the best kind of book, it's juicy. It keeps you reading it.

[A]

It'll be real juicy if I started and open that book out.

[B]

I always ask Linda, I guess on the show, what is a brand to you?

[A]

I've never been asked that question before. I know.

[B]

I've never had the same answer twice.

[A]

I actually have no words, which is really hard for me because I think I've only ever known a brand.

[B]

Isn't it crazy? They're so tangible, but so intangible.

[A]

I mean, for me, it's passion. Lots of people have come back to me and said, why are you doing it? You don't need to work. It's just passion.

[B]

How do you feel towards other brands? What do you think of when you think of when we say something like a Ferrari or out your super cool Chinese takeout YSL bag? Like, what do those brands mean to you?

[A]

Again, I probably get that feel good feeling. For me, it means that I've accomplished a lot in life to where I came from.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And I always remember that.

[B]

Yeah, it has meaning to you.

[A]

Real big meaning. And that's why I've never forgotten where I've come from. I've never, like, I. Like, I'm a giver more than I should be in this world. That's. You know where they say kindness for weakness? That's probably me a lot of times where I've really had to stop helping a lot of people because it became a real problem when I sold key. Everybody came out of the woodwork.

[B]

I bet you're gonna be like, you're like the Godmother to like 40 kids. Yeah.

[A]

But other brands, like, you know, how did you do it? There's no recipe. I can't give a recipe. I've never been really able to mentor because I don't know what to tell people.

[B]

Cause it's a passion.

[A]

It's a passion. I don't think there's a rule book. So I'm really sad to see a lot of young people coming through in the business world with social. You know, the downfall of that is that people do compare themselves to somebody else's journey, and you don't know what that journey is. Someone could have had 500,000 to start that business, and you're sitting there with your $10,000 check and in comparison, is

[B]

a thief for happiness. Right. Like, as long as you think that person has more, you feel robbed.

[A]

And I think we do personally, too. When you look at someone that looks prettier than you or, you know, there's filters and things like that, or they're

[B]

just showing how perfect their life is when that's.

[A]

And it's not.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

It's not. Yeah. So even me, I'm quite raw on my social media. I do have a private social media page. Not so much of an open book because it does lead to lots of people saying, give me the recipe. There wasn't a recipe. There's not a recipe with round two, either. I feel like I'm still winging it. I'm relearning again because social media's changed totally. You know, when I was doing it, it wasn't monetized.

[B]

No. And it wasn't like affiliate revenue and paid ads and whitelisting fee.

[A]

I don't get all that GMV. I. I was talking to TikTok the other day, and they're like, GMV. And I went, huh? What is that?

[B]

English, please.

[A]

What is that?

[B]

You know.

[A]

You know, white listing. I didn't even. I didn't know what whitelisting was.

[B]

I know. It's a. It's a total. Its own ecosystem. It's crazy. It's like. It's. It's a different planet.

[A]

The younger generation probably got a head start to where we are. They understand social media. I don't. I understand how to post if you like it. Great.

[B]

That was a great answer. I think this is a great episode. I'm so happy that we made this happen. I guess people can find you on otra.

[A]

Yes, I can.

[B]

All right. Awesome. And your favorite pair of sunglasses that they can buy right now.

[A]

The ones on my head. The veil.

[B]

Let's model them for me. Let's go. Oh.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Cool. The veil.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

They're very cool. They're the shield glasses. Love.

[A]

Correct. Come above the face, love.

[B]

Well, thank you for coming.

[A]

Thank you for having me.