The Algorithm Doesn’t Make Mistakes — How to Take Control of Your Brand, Content, and Growth - The Art of the Brand

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[00:00]
A
The algorithm does not make mistakes. Seek the content you want to receive. On the second hand, create the content that you want to be known for, because the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target.
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B
It's almost like reframing it. Don't be a slave to the algorithm. Be a master of the algorithm.
[00:17]
A
So the whole idea is that I got high, and it's a Puma commercial, and it's basically the idea that she got high running. And that is the concept. So that it's kind of playing on smoking weed, but it's the high because she went running hot or not.
[00:36]
B
What a brand, what a brand, what.
[00:37]
A
A brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what.
[00:43]
B
A brand, what a mighty good brand.
[00:46]
A
Welcome back to another episode of Art of the Brand. This week is a big week. We're coming off of Camille on Trial, which was a really big moment. We've done a whole podcast segment on that, which, for those who liked the posts, please listen to that. For me, the really core takeaway was how much support and positivity comes through when you're raw and when you're real. And it's such an important takeaway for business owners is like post everything. The highs, the lows. That's how you build a tribe. And raving fans.
[01:24]
B
Yeah. I was always surprised how interested people are in law. You know, like, I used to post more about legal issues. People were fascinated about it. But now that it's more business. But definitely this. That podcast about Camille on trial is going to give you some interesting insights on what a trial looks like. When hotshot lawyers think they're going to take on what they consider an ordinary citizen who then eats their lunch in front of the whole courtroom.
[01:48]
A
Yeah, honestly, it's a. It's a really good podcast episode and a listen for you business owners that need that kick in the pants to show up and do things that are uncomfortable because it's. Times are tough, like you need to be able to actually stand up for yourself. And it was such an empowering experience. It's not about the money. We did win both cases, so we made back our few thousand bucks. But it really wasn't about the money. It was the growth that. That I experienced. And that's where everyone was so overwhelmingly positive and supportive. And it's. I'm not gonna lie, it's really nice when people show up and they're, like, cheering you on. So it was a really great. So Camille on Trial, that episode is out. You've Also had a big week. Do you wanna share the camera? Your newest baby?
[02:41]
B
This is the picture of me with whatever these cameras are called, Polaroids in front of my new Tesla Cybertruck. I was an original buyer of Tesla Model X seven years ago. So I've always been a big fan of the company, the technology and the brand, and wanted to show my support by continuing to support amazing products and leave the politics out of it. However, as you were aware, I did engage with the protesters for about half an hour in healthy dialogue about what's going on there. And I literally, I think about half of them I talked to in the end were like, those are good points we hadn't thought about. And one of my pleasures in life is just engaging in good dialogue with people who disagree with me.
[03:22]
A
It's to stir the pot.
[03:24]
B
No, I think humans need to understand what's important rather than just kind of do what they're told is important. And we don't have enough dialogue with people who disagree with us. And it's a main thing I was writing about this week. People are. People want to be right so badly that they no longer care about finding the truth.
[03:42]
A
Yeah.
[03:42]
B
And I think it's really applicable. Probably talk about in the podcast in the marketing and branding world.
[03:46]
A
Yeah.
[03:47]
B
Right. The truth is what matters if you're looking for success, not what your tribe wants to feel is right.
[03:54]
A
I think it's. No, I was actually gonna say I think it's deeper than that. I actually don't think that that statement was deep enough because I think that it's. The problem is that a lot of the poor decisions that are being made right now in branding or marketing are being done through the lens that because it matters to you, you therefore think it matters to a brand that you haven't built into all of their customers. And the justification of this matters to people is why it gets across the line and across the table. When really putting larger issues on faceless companies, especially companies where like, these are trends of the moment versus brands that have been built over decades or a century, it becomes. It just becomes very sticky territory. So it's. It's even deeper than what you said because it's not necessari. It's not even about what you think that they want. It's that there's actually no indication that the populace for this brand or that, like the community for the brand has indicated they want that. It's that in your position because so much of what you do to give them credit at least, is you're very Siloed, Right. Like you're making these decisions in your 14th floor office and the people that you're really needing to speak to is the board.
[05:08]
B
You know what was a missed opportunity for me, and I know that I must walk and spend two minutes in the box and feel shame because I did not film these dialogues. It was my potential kind of moment to interview people. The conversations were phenomenal. Like, they're actually warm. I should have filmed them. And I didn't follow our own advice in terms of authentic content. I just went out and had a conversation.
[05:30]
A
Well, I think that's actually a really good actual takeaway that we can kick off with in that it's funny we don't talk enough about our own growth and how uncomfortable it is to like document your life and like create content as a business owner, which is what Philip and I are also doing. And for me, a big takeaway that's really changed for me is one, just getting in the habit of trying to see everything you're doing as an opportunity to shoot content. So just first and foremost going through the mental shift of like, okay, I'm going into a meeting, what could I shoot? What could I record? I'm going to go pick up my new car, what could I shoot? What could I record? And it's not even necessarily to use it in the beginning, it's just getting in the mental head space. Because there's nothing more frustrating than when you leave these big events, especially as a business owner. When you're running these events, your mind is doing the work, you're not thinking about yourself. So you first need to go through that mental shift. And then once you go through the mental shift, then you can be more critical on yourself. And you should be critical on yourself because in the beginning it's not going to be good, but at least you're thinking about it. And that's number one. And then number two is then when you're thinking about it, getting better at what you get. And then three, the third step is once it starts getting better, having a plan and a so what? So on one hand you should have just a bank of content that is just useful for reels or for swipe throughs or for you to post just for. You have to kind of have filler to use because seldom, you know how many, how many photo shoots are you doing per year. Like you need kind of that filler content for the background of graphics or stories. But two, once you start thinking about a so what to your point, like you could have created some really great content at the dealership.
[07:21]
B
I just wrote down. I'm gonna go back on Saturday with my son and get him to. I'm just gonna have a goal to try and get people to agree on a couple things.
[07:28]
A
Yeah.
[07:29]
B
And have a good discussion. Cause that's what I like to do.
[07:31]
A
Well, even what we talked about with you this week. Philip is a prolific YouTube consumer, and he's consuming so much YouTube content. Like, every single piece of video that you consume on YouTube, make a video on it. Steal like an artist. Amazing book that you guys should read. Austin Cleon. And basically, the premise is, like, all those. Those four different videos that you've watched, the accumulation of the range, your life experience, the touch point through those four videos, you're not taking anything. You're repurposing it. You're making it your own. You're making it better. And that's, like, an easy way to start getting into it. But ultimately, like me filming that video when we got out of the courthouse, that is a trained skill, and it did so well. But there's, like. It's so easy for me to be like, holy shit, I've been in here for an hour. I've got emails to do, like, let's go for lunch. Let's get. Like. But to stop and in the intentionality of shooting takes time to get there. But it's so valuable for you to do it because that video did, like, 35,000 views and. And it took nothing to do it.
[08:27]
B
No. And I'm one of those people who. A lot of our listeners are. Who are business owners, who. I don't really like having the camera trained on me. You know what I mean? Like, I like serving others, helping others. I'll step into the fight when it's there, but when it's just on you, it makes me feel uncomfortable that I feel like I'm putting too much tension on myself and I missed a good opportunity that I didn't do a video like you did outside the courtroom when I was leaving the Tesla dealership about why I purchased the Cybertruck.
[08:53]
A
But here's. Here's the true secret. It doesn't come easy to me either. Even though I'm younger, you know, like, it. It's actually something that has me. I've been. I think back, and I get so mad at myself for how many, like, trips we've done, how many cool moments there's been that I haven't thought about how to leverage that as a piece of content. And obviously, hindsight is everything, but it doesn't come easy even to be mean.
[09:16]
B
I wonder if I can. One thing I did when I was younger that made me a great speaker when I talk in front of crowds or in courtrooms or to officials, is I took Toastmasters when I was young.
[09:28]
A
Such a great program.
[09:29]
B
And I don't know how many people who are our listeners take Toastmasters, but for something that seems so simple, it really helps you build a couple of building blocks. And the best part of it to me, every week somebody would take turns giving a 10 minute speech to the group of supporting people. And it was awesome because you'd have somebody who'd count the amount of ahs you said. You'd get really healthy, constructive feedback in a safe spot. Amazing organization for young and the old. But the thing I liked the most was called Table topics. And so you would just, somebody would write 10 random topics on and everybody would pick it and then you'd turn it over and you had to talk about that topic for one minute just off the top of your head. Just teaching you to get comfortable, not having a script. Right. And it's hard at the beginning. But I think for anybody who wants to start creating content, you might meet some people. But doing something like Table topics with your team can get you over that edge where you can learn to talk because you have good things to say. You just have to get past those barriers you've put there to speaking freely.
[10:27]
A
I'm listening right now to a book by Roger Love, who's a really famous voice coach. And it's really funny that you brought that up because really his whole premise, and it's a fantastic audiobook, I highly recommend because he does both voice coaching by way of singing. He's worked with all the big singers, but he also does voice coaching. And he says one of his clients. Super fascinating point. Actually studied effectively the intonation of the English language and realized that there's certain like tonal values that professions exist within. So like bankers, like basically their O's are more like muted and then like, you know, teachers would have like a higher, like. So it was really fascinating.
[11:11]
B
Radio hosts who are on classical music are very breathy.
[11:18]
A
Yes. But the premise of his book, which is really fascinating, is that so many people default to calling themselves tone deaf. He goes, tone deafness is actually a very rare condition that is often onset from damage to the eardrums. Like you actually are deaf to the tone versus you are untrained to use your voice. And the whole concept is that also your intonation, your tone, your strength of word choice. It's actually a trainable skill and to kind of. To leverage listening to that book and doing something like a Toastmasters. It's like you're not limited to what you feel you're stuck with. These are like, okay, one last passage from the book I'm reading this week, Pound the Stone. Really an interesting kind of analogy kind of fable. Have you heard the story where elephants, when they're. When they're grown up, basically, like their master only holds onto them by a very small piece of rope. And the reason that they hold on to this piece of rope is because when they're. When they're babies, the elephants, when they're the. When they fight the most, the rope can actually hold them back. And they're trained at that age that they can't break that rope.
[12:32]
B
They think the rope is unbreakable because of their past experiences.
[12:35]
A
Yes. And the idea is, like, what ropes are you still living with now that you're an adult that aren't truly holding you back?
[12:43]
B
This is getting deep. Like parents telling you that you're not good enough to talk. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of stuff there that could be holding you back that really isn't holding you back. You're just allowing it to. Good analogy for content. May I provide one last rogue lawyer tip of the week, please. Since we're on the topic of public speaking listed as scarier than skydiving. Right. I wanted to share with the audience if they don't know. And I'll ask you, how many people know where butterflies come from? Butterflies is that feeling in your stomach when you get nervous.
[13:13]
A
Yeah. I don't know.
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B
Right. Most people don't know where it comes from. And it makes them feel scared. I'm getting butterflies. It makes them feel scared.
[13:21]
A
Yeah.
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B
What butterflies is. And it's a sign to you that it's time for you to perform. Because when we're not engaged in a fight or flight or important situation, the majority of our blood actually resides in our small intestines. Our small intestines are huge, like, quite like the length of a football field if you lay them out or whatever, the majority of our blood sits in our small intestines digesting food. When our body. When our brain and body realize that we're in a position where we have to perform, the adrenal glands release. What's it called? Adrenaline. And what adrenaline does is it tells the body, this blood in my small intestines for digestion is needed in my brain and my Muscles, because I have to perform. And so when you get in that situation, you'll feel these butterflies. That's the blood just being redirected to your muscles and your brain so you can be better. So next time you feel butterflies, welcome it, say, amazing. My body knows it's time for me to prepare. This is blood going to where it's needed at the moment. And then lean into that butterfly moment because your body knows it's time for you to show up.
[14:25]
A
Well, that also probably speaks to. To why you feel, like, almost it's very close to feeling like you have to go to the washroom. You know, like, it's a very fine line of, like, how everything is, like, happening in there. But it's such a great. It's such a great point because I. So many of the. Of my age and younger, when you get that sense of sensation, of feeling, we're just. We retreat back. Like, we don't lean into it. And that's why the whole Camille entre, like, I was fucking scared shitless when I was, like, going into the courthouse because I didn't know what was ahead of me. It's the Pima Trodern concept of resistance when things fall apart. Another great book of what we fear most is the idea of the thing, not the thing itself. But it was those moments when you feel. I had actually a friend of mine, she said this so astutely. She said, whenever I feel that she goes, that's when I know to lean into it because it's what feels uncomfortable, but I'm gonna actually get something from it. So that's lean into it philosophical brand conversation. Well, let's, I guess, lead into now. The. So we've got two topics actually that I want to touch on that are algorithm AI focused and number one is what you search matters. So this is a conversation that you and I were having this week, and it's a really important takeaway for listeners that what you search for on social media matters, because what you search for is what you see.
[15:51]
B
I remember this conversation.
[15:52]
A
It's good for you and how important it is to be intentional with what you're searching because it's going to improve and change your algorithm.
[15:59]
B
You want me to expand on it?
[16:00]
A
Yeah, jump in.
[16:01]
B
I just think, like, some people. Sometimes people are like, how do you get that? How did you find that out? And you actually set the conditions for your own consumption of information by what you go on. And I think too many people start on social media because they want to look at football, hunting, fashion trends, Celebrities, Right. It was the fastest way to kind of get the skinny on that stuff. But now the algorithm has a profile on you and it's going to feed you that. And you almost have to accidentally get something that really. But a lot of people are inquisitive, curious and desire real knowledge. But because they've been on social media, it's trained them to consume that content. It feeds them that content. What we've done with some people is get them kind of on a detox where you can sometimes start a new profile or just start searching every day. Things that will make you smarter, like, you know what I mean? Top 10 philosophers in the the world. Right. Best way to analyze financial documents. Right. The top marketing trends of this. So you can train the algorithm that you're spending so much time on to recognize that you want that information. And then it'll start feeding you things that will make your life better rather than just take time off your life.
[17:08]
A
The whole reason why we came onto this is that we had an in person session with our team last week and one of our team members had sent me over the course of a few days some really great videos. And I was like thanking her for it, but like also having that moment of like, let's connect over like what was kind of sent offline. And her comment out loud was, yeah, like, my algorithm has been really good the last few days. And it led us down a rabbit hole of us having this conversation where it's really important what you search for and how you spend your time online. Because it's so easy to not get. See that video because you went for purses instead of clicking on that, you know the base claw clip breakdown, right? How the algorithm then starts spewing you more content based on what you've clicked on. Because the whole point of what the algorithm is trying to do is trying to keep you on that app longer.
[18:01]
B
It's almost like reframing it. Don't be a slave to the algorithm. Be a master of the algorithm. Like put in inputs so the algorithm can make you better. You can still have fun on it, but at least every day put in search inputs that tell the algorithm what you want to see.
[18:15]
A
I disagree. I think it's, you should be using socials for what you want to get out of it. And if you find that you're kind of mad at yourself, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that you know at the end of the night you're just like brain rotting because you're just getting like Real Housewives of Atlanta clips. And then it's like how to do heatless blowout curls. And you feel like you're just in this, like, doom scroll. You have to actively change what you're seeing. And that's what makes social media so interesting, especially from another perspective on the kind of content that you're creating for who you want to attract. The algorithm does not make mistakes. And if you do a video that's for a, like, for a niche audience or for a niche company, like, they're going to get it. And maybe it's not on the first, but keep making that content because the algorithm is super intelligent. So on one hand, seek the content you want to receive. On the second hand, create the content that you want to be known for, because the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target.
[19:14]
B
Perfect.
[19:15]
A
Cool. All right, so next section. So really interesting. Remember that we talked about two episodes ago, Pretty Little thing, that fast fashion brand had done that full rebrand. Well, the top comment on its post that got the most likes was someone calling out the Pretty Little thing rebrand for the ChatGPT hyphen. And there's this video of this roundtable of women that talk on TikTok. And I love this video. And they were basically kind of breaking down of how now people are calling out the signals for ChatGPT writing and how it's kind of like ChatGPT malpractice to leave in those indicators. Now, what's funny about that is I went to school for English. One of my signatures, so that hyphen is called the EM dash. And I love writing with the EM dash. So I felt instantly targeted because I'm like, shoot, now I need to change my writing style because people are now calling out the ChatGPT hyphen.
[20:18]
B
These discussions to me are a complete waste of time, really, on one level, because there's just people who want to signal that they're on top of something. And I think it goes back to what I talked to about status last week. You can't do big things if you're focused on small things. And most people are focused on small things. Why is this person driving so slow? Why did this person do that? Why did you spell that wrong? There are people who live in the world of the small, right? And they use it to kind of just take shots at people. But, like, use ChatGPT, put in the good inputs and then judge if the content is helpful or not. Who gives a frick if it's got the hyphen. Like, yes, I personally will do things to make sure that the. So it doesn't look like there's chatgpt in there.
[20:58]
A
The random bolding.
[20:59]
B
Yeah, but if there is, like, I don't care. I just. We just want to make good content, share it, and raise everybody up. But I love that quote. You can't do big things if you're focused on the small things, and that's in your personal and profess life.
[21:10]
A
Yeah. No, and you're completely correct. It's interesting. I. Okay, so one, like, all hail. You're. You nailed it. I completely agree.
[21:19]
B
I wasn't trying to undercut your point. I just mean, like, it just made me.
[21:22]
A
You're right. And what I thought was actually really interesting. The reason why you're right, and what's fascinating about this is one, I wanted to talk about the origins of the EM dash because the reason why I loved writing with it is that it. It has a very interesting historical context. So it was actually Emily Dickinson that made or that popularized the EM dash in her poetry in the 1800s. Because before Emily Dickinson, she's a prolific American writer. Poet, Some people might not know. Don't roll your eyes. But before her style of writing, it was very rigid. And what she brought to poetry is that it was more conversational, so it better represented kind of like the true human thought. So the idea of the EM dash, or using the EM dash was to signal, like pause, hesitation, or breath. So it was to represent kind of the rhythm and ambiguity.
[22:10]
B
More conversational.
[22:11]
A
More conversational. And what's interesting is that's why I've used it is I like it as a kind of a connector between thoughts and the reason. So I asked ChatGPT why it uses it so much. And the reason. The example that it gave me is that it actually makes the copy feel casual, human, and conversational. And it's a. Basically, it's a quick, clean way to break up long sentences without feeling academic. And it mimics how we pause and speech. So it performs better in digital environments, emails, captions, and blogs. And it keeps people scrolling because it visually breaks the wall of text. And what's interesting is it said a lot of the readers and some editors are saying ChatGPT overuses it in their right. The algorithm was trained on mountains of modern blog content, captions and articles that heavily favor the EM dash to keep writing, informal, scrollable, and easy to digest. It's not a bug, it's by design.
[23:03]
B
And ChatGPT has scholarly. You can go on ChatGPT Scholar and get different types of answers, but I.
[23:09]
A
Think that really the answer that we're getting here and the reason why the EM dash is popularized is to your exact point is that you're literally picking fly shit out of pepper because beautiful.
[23:19]
B
Just take a moment and imagine that everybody with tweezers.
[23:23]
A
But it's like when you look at that paragraph by pretty little thing, it makes it read much better. And it's such a moot point. People. This is, this is seven days out from Forever 21 saying that they've gone bankrupt for the second time. Fast fashion is at an all time low. This brand is trying to save itself. It's also. They're just literally going for any way to attack it.
[23:48]
B
That person exists in every corporation that exists to point out why things aren't perfect and you can't get anything done. Like it's why the 80% solution on time is better than 100% late.
[23:59]
A
Yeah.
[23:59]
B
These people exist everywhere. They're in the corporate marketing departments, they're everywhere. And that's why founders can't get stuff done. You need to have consultants who get you and move you forward.
[24:10]
A
And before I move on to the last section, the reason why it's called the EM dash, I thought it because it's em. I thought it was the EM dash because of Emily Dickinson, but it's called the EM dash. The EM dash because the dash is the same width as an M. So it takes up the same amount of space on a page. All right, so next segment is actually also chatgpt, but then after this we'll move out. And this was a really interesting experience that we had with the team this week and that I got this email from this client and how they were using ChatGPT versus how I use ChatGPT. And I figured this is actually a really good segment to bring you guys all through for how you're using ChatGPT and how you're directing your team to use it.
[24:52]
B
What did you ask the team to do?
[24:53]
A
I asked the team to give me a response to the email that I, the client had given me and I forwarded it to them and the response I got was task oriented, not action oriented. And it was not good enough.
[25:09]
B
Effectively. Yeah.
[25:10]
A
And when I had gone and when I found the time to put it into ChatGPT and do it myself, I got on the first pass exactly what I was looking for. And I stopped myself and I said, okay, this needs to be a teachable moment for myself in how I direct the team as well as for my team to learn how I'm wanting to use ChatGPT. So I put in my answer, I took their two answers and I said, based on the difference in response, can you provide an analysis or a summary of how I got to mine versus how they got to theirs? And the response was fascinating. And I think this is a really important segment. So number one was that my prompt was outcome oriented versus task oriented. So a lot of people are in quotations, lazy in the sense that they will just ask, like, can you reply.
[25:56]
B
To this email, you know, indicating that we were time constraint, you know, whatever it was, da da, da da. And then it will just explain.
[26:03]
A
Yeah. So like their prompts were task oriented and generic. They likely asked what content can we make with this story? Or how can we use this patient story for content. Right. But it misses the bigger opportunity to tie it strategically to the brand's goals. Right. Versus mine, which is more action oriented. I focused the prompt on the actual goal and I didn't just ask a simple like task oriented question. And then the second is that I included context that actually mattered. So what most people miss when they're speaking in ChatGPT is they don't provide context. And context is very relevant because it's a language learning model. So without context it can only give you based on the knowledge at hand, which is limited.
[26:47]
B
The language learning model is lazy and linear is what I found to just throw some else in there. So when people kind of say, oh my God, ChatGPT and they don't like it, ChatGPT just reflects the intelligence and the ability of the user to ask the right questions. And personally I've experienced this where I've started almost kind of giving ChatGPT shit and saying, look, that answer is lazy. Now it's probably my fault, but I think you have to push the models. You have to give it context. You have to say, I do not want a linear traditional response. I want you to understand the context of where we are, what do I want to achieve and where we need to go.
[27:23]
A
You nailed it. That's actually point number three is ChatGPT said you told ChatGPT what you didn't want. So that's very important, very important to tell them what you don't want. Because again, it's, it's lazy and linear. It's only going to give you what you're asking of it. So if you're not giving context, if you're not focusing on it being like more action oriented and it having context as well as what you don't want, it can't give you that Full answer. And the last is I asked for next steps. So this was super important, is that I made it clear that I wanted something that my client could actually execute. Not just ideas, but a plan. And that's what leaders want and that's what clients want. So my team had stopped at just like content ideas versus how do I get the action steps needed to bring these ideas to life? And it just, it provides a more holistic, comprehensive answer. It makes the language learning model think more.
[28:20]
B
Can I give an example? We work with a company that does concrete and you can really use it intelligently if you push the boundaries. So what I've done is put in the LinkedIn profile of the people who approve the concrete contracts in the big cities, right? And then I took the other concrete companies and their posts and put it in ChatGPT. And then I put in our client's strategy and what we thought our strengths and weaknesses were, and then asked ChatGPT, Analyze the competing strategies, analyze the profiles of the decision makers and come up with a probability of what will be the strongest themes to get contracts and what would be the weakest. And you just keep asking questions and the data you get is fantastic, as opposed to just say, give me a marketing strategy to do this.
[29:03]
A
And if that sounds overwhelming, you're using ChatGPT wrong. Like that's the level you need to be treating ChatGPT as if it's like a. You're like your chief of staff, like it's a real human. You're giving clear marching orders, objective direction, what you don't want, like just asking it a lazy question, you're going to get a lazy answer.
[29:23]
B
No, it's more effective than top performing humans.
[29:26]
A
It is.
[29:26]
B
You still need a couple. But if you ask it the right questions, it will actually do work so much faster.
[29:32]
A
And I've got actually the five prompt directions that get you CEO level answers. So I'm going to break these down. Number one is clarifying the real objective. What are we actually trying to do? Number two is provide the necessary context. The who, what, why, how. So give those interrogative live questions. So provide context. Three, say what's missing and what you don't want. Okay, so what not to do, where not to focus, what to ignore, what's missing from this for them to fill in. Number four, ask for strategy and actionable next steps. Not just ideas, but a plan. So how can you get to what you're achieving or suggesting to do? Because oftentimes ChatGPT will give you an answer. It reads well but it's actually not actionable or executable. So for example, we're doing a speaking engagement in Australia and I was trying to plan out kind of the trip for that and I asked if we can extend the trip basically here or there, where are some other places. And it gave me this fantastic trip. But then one of the places was a 12 hour drive to get there and then it was a three hour flight and they wanted me back the same day. And like, so sometimes without explaining, like, give me the plan. It will give you things that can read well if you glance it, but it's not actually possible, you know, the.
[31:01]
B
Picture I just had. If you want to visualize ChatGPT as some brilliant savant with, with inexhaustible research capabilities, but who sits there and kind of will almost smile at your questions? Like it's almost like talking to like an old oracle which will just literally answer your questions. Literally.
[31:20]
A
Yes.
[31:21]
B
Right. And kind of internally smile and it's hoping that you ask more questions, but it's not going to. It's starting to prompt a little bit at the end, but I think. Did you hit the fifth one?
[31:32]
A
No. So the fifth one is, is effectively ask for deliveral. It's exactly what you're saying. So what you're, what you're breaking down from that image is perfect because imagine your like setting the foundation, you're providing the plot and the meat. You're asking for kind of like the actionable steps and then you're going further with the deliverable. And that's what most people miss is that to go back to elementary school when like an essay is like a sandwich, you need to see how you're asking ChatGPT to be like a sandwich. Like you should be typing out a full blown paragraph because you're giving context, you're giving, explaining the who, what, where, why and how. You're giving the, the indicators of what you want and what you don't want.
[32:13]
B
That's why I like the app, you know, and Grok is getting good. Anything that you can actually dictate into because when you dictate you actually give yourself a little bit context. You give yourself free flow to get in this context that you would. Because we're taught to kind of use less words and it's. And then it will pick up on that. So try and use the audible dictation. The audible dictation. You'll get better answers. May I add potentially a sixth one that I don't think has been considered, but I think is the Most important.
[32:40]
A
Ok. Right.
[32:41]
B
Especially for business owners or people who are high up. I can't remember what the quote was. Right. It's what we don't know that will kill us. It's what we know to be true that isn't true that will kill us. I think it was Mark Twain or something like that.
[32:54]
A
It is Mark Twain.
[32:55]
B
Right. So ask ChatGPT at the end when you've done this, having considered everything we've done here, what is it that I don't know that could be a risk to the success of the project.
[33:05]
A
Like.
[33:06]
B
Like use that to try and access your own blind spots. Because blind spots can kill us and we can frame the questions in a way that ignore it. So getting that now is essentially similar. What I'll do is what we used to do in military planning and war gaming. I will say pretend you're my opposition and rip apart my plan for vulnerabilities at every step.
[33:25]
A
Yeah.
[33:25]
B
That type of stuff is the. Is the icing on the cake of these questions.
[33:29]
A
This is the quote. The humorous Mark Twain is often credited with a variation of this. It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
[33:39]
B
Just pulled that right out of my head.
[33:40]
A
Yeah, that's a. That is bang on. So Those are the six things that you need to know for constructing your ChatGPT prompt. Lastly, I don't know if we talked about on the podcast, I think we might have, but Claude is also such a fantastic addition to your creative writing. So ChatGPT, that is like. Think of ChatGPT as like your chief of staff. Like it's built into your business. Everything should go through ChatGPT. Claude is a fantastic creative writer. It lacks that uncanniness where you can't just quite put your finger on like how it's like chatgpt esque. It's a very good writer. The issue with Claude is that it has a usage limit that you can't buy out of. So it's one of those things where it doesn't make sense for you to be using Claude at the level you should be using ChatGPT. But it's a great. In addition to. Because it will really enhance your creative writing. So ChatGPT, the base Claude 2 Enhance.
[34:34]
B
Grok is the best I find for trends and media because it has.
[34:39]
A
It scans Twitter.
[34:40]
B
Yeah, it scans Twitter. So it's actually getting more data because everything about language learning models is getting new data. And so because it has that and Elon feeds Tesla visuals into his AI. So it's seeing the world through a million or a billion cameras. It changes the world. And Gemini Deep Research is very good on Google. If you use Gemini Deep Research, it provides exceptional results.
[35:07]
A
All right, so actually, funny enough, we can chat about this super quick. So I don't know if you've seen this, the new upgrade to OpenAI, the image generator. So effectively the breakdown is like using Claude for prompting and then using like from the prompting. So coming up with a creative brief and then using ChatGPT for the static generation is an absolute game changer. Like it's all of these ads were completely made with AI and it just shows you that we can now do vibe based marketing.
[35:38]
B
Well, what it tells you is that traditional agencies and establishments are going to become obsolete because they insist on doing things the way they were done. So that's better than most graphic designers. The most important thing is the strategic inputs. Yes, right. Yes, the labor part of it can be done, but agencies are still charging people a fortune to do things that can be done by tech today. Better. Yes, but they don't have the right inputs.
[36:02]
A
And so if anyone hasn't tried this yet, this is like a news breaking this week. The image generators are absolutely insane. Like way better than most agencies. So that is a huge breakthrough. And that ends our segment on GPTs. Next thing I want to talk about, to go back to our kind of deep philosophical intro was the book that we both finished, the Chop Wood Carry Water. And I just really love taking those breaks to go back to kind of those like books that make you think.
[36:37]
B
Deep in life as kind of a martial arts enthusiast. Like I love those, those kind of Buddhist samurai or whatever, like the philosophy of happiness and success. And everybody is always getting so complex, so complex. Right. But even in business, anybody who does the best at their products, they always go back to first principles and simplicity. You know, like the masters in martial arts go back and they're still trying to master the simplest steps. And so these books kind of bring us back from all of the distractions of the world to focus on what really will bring us some happiness and harmony.
[37:14]
A
Yeah, I wanted to both talk about two things, two standout moments that spoke to us. To me, the thing that really stood out was the concept of building your own house. So this book was by Joshua Metcalfe, if you haven't listened to it. And I'm not going to ruin the book because it's one of those books where there's just every chapter is filled with some kind of proverbial insight. So in the book the Master, he, the the sensei is explaining a story of this master home builder. And effectively the master home builder is about to retire and the company asks to build one more house and he's ready to get on with his life. He's seeing the things that are coming down the way, but he does his job and he finishes this last house. And at the end of the building of the house, the company was actually gifting him this house as his like passing present. And there was that instant pang of self frustration and disappointment because had he known it was going to be his house, he would have built it different or he would have just had a different approach.
[38:13]
B
I forget about his focus because he built other people's house beautifully. But on the last house, he didn't take it seriously.
[38:18]
A
And how that changed his perception on the joy he felt in the house and the experience he felt in the house. And it really, really sat with me because it's so easy to not be present in the tasks you're doing and to not have that focus and commitment that not only is it your house, but it could also be your last house. And I spoke to the team about this because I think it's a really strong message for your team in remembering that, you know, times are tough. We're in a weird spot right now in the economy. People are holding back, spending every single customer that walks in the door, like, you should treat this business like it's your house.
[39:02]
B
It's a beautiful point for team members. It's hard to get team members to care that much, but the meaning comes from caring. Yeah, right. It's not about just phoning it in so you can go do like you have to. You have to have meaning. What I loved about the book and a theme I've been focusing on is our society is addicted to easy right now. Right? It's just addicted to easy. Everybody wants a shortcut. Everybody wants to make it quickly. And this history doesn't lie. And the people who become great do the reps, they do the work. They're getting their fingernails dirty. They're up when others are sleeping. And we kid ourselves into thinking there's another way to be great. And what this book reminds us, especially in the samurai saying, look, chop wood and pack and carry water before you're going to learn how to shoot the arrows. It's just reminding people that there's other benefits that come from hard things. It's not just traceable. And the quote that Struck me in that book is greatness isn't reserved for the chosen few. Greatness is reserved for the few who choose to do hard things. Right. And so that's why I keep saying do hard things. Like, it just makes life better doing.
[40:11]
A
Hard things, but it's also doing the boring things.
[40:14]
B
Yeah.
[40:14]
A
You know, like the chopping wood and the carrying water. Like, he's not saying climb a mountain every day. You know, like, not that chopping wood and carrying. It's not hard, but it's the idea of that. Also, those boring, those monotonous things, they make you better at whatever you're doing. And I love what the book also says is like, stop comparing where you're at to whomever you're comparing yourself to. Whether it's competitors, whether it's somebody else on the Internet, you're building your own house. And all it's about is your own house and you putting your head down and doing the work to chopping wood and carrying water. It's going to make you better for wherever you're going because you're focused on your house.
[40:55]
B
And that's where people make mistakes too, is they want to. They want to take a shortcut to the house, or in our context, they want a shortcut to having the best social media accounts or the best businesses and all that. And you can't really take shortcuts. You have to get the right advice, strategy.
[41:09]
A
You gotta chop wood and carry water.
[41:10]
B
Chop wood and carry water, and then a tribe will follow you eventually.
[41:13]
A
You know what I also love, too, is he talks about in the book the, you know, the focus on how we're always looking at that as you keep leveling up the people that you continue to look up to, there's just, there's, there's, there's never the end for more. You know, like, whether it's more followers or more money or more trips or posting more, how they're showing up on the Internet and how happy they look and how glamorous their life looks and just realizing, like, when have you reached enough? When are you at the point where this is enough? And I don't think we talk about it enough in branding and in marketing and creating content. Like, when is it enough? What are we chasing?
[41:54]
B
People think there's a destination that they arrive to, and all of a sudden they're happy. Right. It's not the destination, it's the journey.
[42:01]
A
It's finding happiness.
[42:01]
B
So it's not enough. And then as you're on the journey, redefine what, what you want from happiness. Right. When you're young, it's I want a car. Like some superstar or something.
[42:11]
A
No. So you want a car period or you're never happy. Yeah. I want to show you my favorite Oscar Wilde quote. The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last. I love that quote because it's the best part of this journey is the suspense of what's coming. So find joy in this moment. Find joy in the struggle and trying to get a post that goes out. Find joy in figuring out your message and your brand and connecting with your customer. Find joy in posting the ninth video that got six views. Because it's going to work. It's just what makes the journey the best are those moments until you figured it out. Because that's what makes you a cooler, deeper person.
[42:52]
B
What I want to converse about with that quote is it's funny. You can get a quote at one age and it doesn't hit you. And then you can get a quote at another age, like after you've grown and it hits you. The best words, the best quotes are ones that have different, different, different meanings to you at different times.
[43:10]
A
And expand. Yeah.
[43:11]
B
That quote, when you think of it, the suspense is beautiful. I hope that it lasts.
[43:15]
A
It's terrible.
[43:15]
B
It's terrible. I hope that it lasts. That's somebody who knows there's an end, right? Not somebody. Right. Because those moments of suspense, they're the most alive you feel like I can, you know, it's for me sitting on a C130 Hercules before the first jump. Like the suspense was frickin terrible. Right. Like it was. But you know, you don't get that rush until after or waiting for a jury verdict. Right. When that jury walks in, it is scarier than most of the things I ever did in the military and the same in business. You're launching the product you want to see. Like we work for that moment where we drink deep of life. Right? So just it reminds everybody that the small things we're doing, the content, just enjoy those moments, drink deep of life. Because it's going to lead to a moment that gives you joy.
[44:04]
A
Seems a bit shallow to connect to this, but I feel like there is a larger point where I'm going, it was interesting. I was on shoot with Ethan the other day and Ethan Shaw is a fantastic photographer with a large following. And he does, you know, like he has leaned in. He's really leaned in and he really actually credits our tough advice to him as being the difference that really changed his path. But him and I were kind of laughing because he's really blown up. Like, I want to say, he's got like half a million followers now. Super talented young guy. What's actually crazy is that if you post every single day, like, if you just actually show up and, like, you are among such a small percentage of creators worldwide or people in your industry. Yeah, people in your industry, it's actually just bound to work. Like, it just the way that it accumulates and how it compounds because, like, really, it's like, for how much content that we've created and that, like, brand awareness, it's really actually so simple to make a name for yourself and different contexts.
[45:06]
B
If you're a business owner, a founder, if you post every day, you will be in the 1% or 5% in your industry. If you post once a day, you'll become better at posting. True. So you're not just in the elite now. You're becoming way better. Where corporations get it wrong is they post once a day, but they don't have a strategy, and it's garbage. And they're paying somebody to just chuck out garbage. But we're talking to those people who own their businesses, who care about their clients, their business. Like these guys and girls that we know who own businesses from 5 to 20 million dollars. They got there because they're exceptional, they worked hard, and if they could just kind of make a little pivot into building their personal brand, the world is their oyster. To get to 100 million.
[45:49]
A
And where this ties back to that Oscar Wilde quote is you get this momentum and this excitement of the suspense because it starts working and you don't know where it's going. And it's such a small world. The opportunities that are potential to you are truly endless. Because when you start creating content and your brand and your character starts emerging, you never know who it's gonna connect to and what doors it's gonna open. But most people fear that sense of suspense, and they just keep wanting more, and they don't realize that, like, that point's the best point. So there's the first path, like the first stage of our own proverbial Buddhist story is, like, the resistance to not doing it right. Like, always putting it off, not posting that piece of content, not investing in the brand. And then you get over that hump, and then you get, like, actually addicted because you start getting, like, the feedback. You start generating business, and then it becomes addictive. But then you get addicted to, like, the constant dopamine hits of seeing your feedback.
[46:42]
B
That's a big danger.
[46:43]
A
And like being, okay, how can I get more, where's more, where's more, where's more? And then that's where you kind of get to that point where it's like, when is it enough? And that's where listening to this chop wood, carry water. It was so important to me because I need to be reframed of. This is enough. I have enough. Now we're creating content to just keep helping people, but I don't.
[47:05]
B
Not chasing celebrity.
[47:06]
A
Yes. I just. This is enough.
[47:08]
B
Well, unhappiness comes from chasing celebrity or egoic things as opposed to chase impact, but not egoic validation.
[47:17]
A
Yeah.
[47:17]
B
So it's a good line.
[47:18]
A
I highly recommend that. And then now I'm listening to Pound the Stone, which is also by Joshua Methclf, and I'm really enjoying that too. So that is kind of. That is that section. Do you want to move into Hot or Not?
[47:29]
B
Let's do it.
[47:30]
A
Okay, so the Hot or Not segment, we've got a bunch of stuff to break down. So Ramoa launched a new campaign and it is a effectively kind of a vintage Pan Am esque luggage set, an archive piece reborn. So it's called the Ramoa Holiday Case. It's a celebration of bold archival design featuring bright primary colors and cutting edge materials. So effectively, it's just kind of bringing something back from their archive. And then they took kind of an approach of being like really kind of vintage images. Hot or not.
[48:06]
B
I think I haven't seen all of the products. I think it's hot in the perspective that 1950s and 60s design is coming back because it has vibe, because design has become so garbage, modern cement. Like, there's no art, there's no artisticness between it. So Ramowa is expensive and, you know, has plastic molding luggage. So to go back to a vibe of a better time, the Pan Am times, I think most people kind of yearn for that feeling of travel being special, of having things that people paid attention to in terms of service luggage experience. So I think it's a great trend. I'm just not sure that I love the color palette from there, but. So I'm kind of hot. But I think they're on the right trend. I think they could have just done a little bit better, you know, what was that other luggage we looked at that had the kind of leather around the steel?
[49:00]
A
Oh, that one I got Carl Frederick.
[49:03]
B
Yeah, like, I think that's got cool.
[49:05]
A
Carl Frederick I quite like because I, I wanted a Ramo, but I could not justify the price tag because we Travel so much, and our just. Our luggage gets so beaten up. So it's like this. I get this, like, frustration of, like, I almost don't want to use it. And it's. That's not proper. So actually, a little tip. If you guys like Carl Frederick, if you Google Carl Frederick Refurbished, they have a hidden page on their website that they don't publish where, like, people who return the luggage, you can buy it at, like, a pretty steep discount.
[49:33]
B
It's going to be sold out now because of how popular the podcast is. And this reminds of White Lotus last night, where I like that shirt that.
[49:40]
A
Whatever Brooke's brother Saxon was wearing, the blue that's kind of Louis Vuitton.
[49:44]
B
And so I'm like, I love that. And you're like, love it. Let's try and buy it.
[49:47]
A
I was like, pause it. We got to search it right now because it's going to be sold out if we don't. And it was already sold out.
[49:51]
B
So you're welcome. Edward Frederick or what?
[49:53]
A
No, Carl Frederick.
[49:54]
B
Carl Frederick.
[49:55]
A
I think. I think that you nailed it. I agree. I think it's hot in that it's. People are talking about the brand. I love that it's vintage. I love that it's different. I love that it's going back to its roots. I love that it's talking about. Old is cool. You know, like, old is an old. But I just. I think it's really cool. Like, if I saw the right person with it, I'd be like, you're cool. To me, it's not practical because I carry too much when I travel, so. But I love.
[50:19]
B
What's the most. What do you think is the most famous piece of luggage from cinema? People put it in the comments. Do you have. Do you have a piece of luggage from cinema that pops out to you?
[50:29]
A
I think it'd be something like that because.
[50:31]
B
From a movie, but I think it.
[50:32]
A
Is the briefcase, because they haven't really done too much of branded luggage in movies.
[50:37]
B
It's not a briefcase is dating, but every human should watch It's a Wonderful Life, one of the best movies ever made. And if you look at when it was made right after World War II, the social zeitgeist is huge. But the suitcase from It's a Wonderful Life that the main character had because he always wanted to travel and he had it ready and it. He just never got to take it and travel. Like, it would almost be nice to buy the rights to kind of that It's a Wonderful Life suitcase look.
[51:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[51:05]
B
And then lay it out there.
[51:06]
A
That's very true. Very cool. Love that. All right, I got the next one. This is Puma. So the whole idea is that I got high and it's a Puma commercial. And it's basically the idea that she got high running, and that is the concept. So that it's kind of playing on smoking weed, but it's the high because she went running hot or not.
[51:34]
B
Amazing song. I have to admit that during my years of consuming cannabis for therapeutic purposes, I always love that song. I Got High made me laugh, especially when I was high. Not that I'm advocating that as a former veteran and prosecutor, but. So I love that vibe. Right. I thought it was going to be about a high jumper or something. Not I get high from running, but it's kind of a stretch. I think it can work, but it didn't really resonate with me as much as I think they were trying to. So I kind of say not. Even though I admire that they're stretching some boundaries.
[52:10]
A
To me, it's a total knot. I think that I'm shocked that it got. I'm shocked that it got approved. And I kudo them for getting approved.
[52:18]
B
That's what I'm saying.
[52:18]
A
But it's such a blase ad. Like, the woman is, like rubbing her ankle like she wasn't going to go running because it's sore. But then she got high and she's like it. And then I had a girl, you're right.
[52:32]
B
It's a little too young and thinking that they're being dangerous, but without understanding what the strategic goals are.
[52:38]
A
But it's like, it's just not Puma. Like, if you're going to do that, like, I just. I think there's a way to do it. Funny is that nothing about the ad was funny to make it to play. It's not like the, you know, the pregs for cats.
[52:48]
B
Yeah, that's a great point.
[52:49]
A
Right?
[52:49]
B
Because Puma. But even its brand and logo is a fun sleek like the Puma. It does not get high with cannabis. You know what I mean? Like, it's a weird. It's kind of off brand, but trying to make a point.
[53:01]
A
It's just. It's not good, but it's interesting. Actually, one of our clients, Kyle, he texted me when we had posted on my story and they had. He said, I expected it to be higher. Like, taking me higher, higher. Like, that would have been a better song because it would have, like, alluded to it. Then doing like that song does not.
[53:23]
B
Appeal to anybody who does fitness generally. Maybe a couple of athletes who are in pain who have already made it.
[53:29]
A
But it's a no.
[53:31]
B
But the whole song is like, I was going to go work out, but then I got high. Right? Yes, yes, I understand the kind of.
[53:39]
A
Play, but I'm going to pull up this one. This was actually interesting. So this is by Hellman's Ketchup, and it's called ketchup Currency. And effectively they've created this microsite where consumers can use the cameras on their mobile devices to scan their spare ketchup packets to get a dollar or $2 off their mayonnaise because they found more people like mayonnaise now with their fries than ketchup. So it's kind of a play of, like, all these, like, random packets you have in your house to be a reason to buy more mayo. And the ad is, like, in mayo.
[54:13]
B
I would almost guarantee there's an military person behind that ad. That type of thinking is like guerrilla fighting. Great thinking.
[54:21]
A
It was really good. To me, this is a hot.
[54:23]
B
And you can get free mayonnaise if you.
[54:25]
A
You get a dollar to $2 off.
[54:27]
B
So if you have, like, people are going to be going and stealing ketchup packages. So they can.
[54:31]
A
No, but they. They want that. You know, like, Hellman's isn't tight on. Isn't tight on dollars. Like, that makes it like a guerrilla campaign. It's kind of like, remember back in the day, like, those, like, coupon shows where, like, there's these people that, like, basically the way that the math works is that if they get enough coupons, they actually get, like, free things. And there was, like, always the suspense at the end if, like, it's a part of their strategy. So.
[54:54]
B
No, but it's a good way to message something that's interesting and it has a reward. And today's world requires an element of gamification to get engagement on many levels. Because people want to have some sort of gamification.
[55:06]
A
Yes. So the next one is by Coors Light.
[55:09]
B
That was hot.
[55:10]
A
Yeah, very hot. Coors Light taps AI into baseball fans and invites consumers who are sitting in obstructed view seats to visit a microsite and upload a photo of their spot. And basically, the more obstructed your view, the more brew you get. So you download this app and you use AI. So if you're, like, behind one of those big poles, you get, like, basically more free beer. So the worse your seat, the more that the brand is going to reward you to make it a positive experience.
[55:37]
B
Yeah, Interesting. Like that will produce some social media posts, Right? Because what it does is people are posting it. I imagine they have to post it in order to get the free beer. But it's a great way to get recognition and to reward humans. Love. When you're rewarding people who care. Right. And that's where that brand is being intelligent. Because the lifers who are up in the top row in the nosebleeds or who are there, they're actually the people that the players should be playing for, not the corporate people down below who don't even watch the game. Like when we go to a Leafs game, like, half of the place isn't even watching hockey. They're just there for social status signaling. But that speaks to the customer who buys their product. Right? That's the person who buys a Coors Light. So it's intelligent. Bud Light should take a lesson from whoever's doing that. Good job. Hot.
[56:29]
A
The reason why I really liked it is both of these. This one, more than the last, are actually quite inexpensive for the impact that it drives. Because.
[56:39]
B
And it gets your audience to participate and be engaged.
[56:41]
A
Like, think of how, like, I would just buy Hellman's. Like, I'm not going to go home and scan my ketchup packs, but I'm going to think of Hellman's and I'm going to reward Hellman's by a purchase.
[56:51]
B
Because every time I see a ketchup pack.
[56:53]
A
Yes. I'm going to think about. I'm going to talk about them. Same with.
[56:56]
B
No, that's why it's guerrilla strategy. If you're exposed to that ad properly, like, if they actually get it out there. Every time you see a ketchup pad pack, you think of the other product, the competition. It's. It's brilliant. That's why I said I thought it was a military guy or girl. Because there's a brilliant guerrilla strategy behind that.
[57:12]
A
Yeah, I love it.
[57:12]
B
And let's reach out to them and see if.
[57:14]
A
Think about how many. Few people actually have obstructed views at the baseball game. You know, like, but.
[57:19]
B
But it can grow because it could be somebody who's standing up all the time. It could be those obnoxious.
[57:23]
A
But that's my point is that from a percentage of how intelligent this is, stadiums aren't designed to give a large majority obstructed views. But you're more likely to even buy the brand because you're celebrating. And this is what.
[57:35]
B
It's relatable.
[57:36]
A
It's Relatable. But what I find most brands miss at all stages is the potential of. They'll be like, oh, well, what if half the stand is obstructive? Like, and we have to. We're giving away half the stands of free beer. I'm like, that's the best thing that could happen.
[57:51]
B
Because isn't that related to that pizza place that gave a free slice of. Of pizza if they got some home run in some inning?
[57:58]
A
Yeah, well, even the Raptors do too. It's like you get free. Well, they've now all done it. So the original one was if they get over 100 points, you got a free slice of pizza at any pizza pizza.
[58:10]
B
Everybody in the stadium.
[58:11]
A
Everybody in the stadium. And it was so funny because my mom would go quite a bit to the Raptors games and she would come home and like my brother would, we'd never get one slice. You know, we'd always get more than that. And it but it even. It always reminded me of pizza pizza because there was like a tide shared moment and a memory with it. And now they do that with like Wendy's. I think you get free fries. And then like they've now all done it with all the different sports. But that was the original one.
[58:37]
B
The lesson learned is there was some courage in that decision maker because a bunch of bean counters would tell you, no, we're going to lose. You know what I mean? But the ROI was down the road. It was a brilliant strategy.
[58:47]
A
As an aside, I learned this actually a few years ago working with the person that developed the Cineplex program. So like the points you get at movie theaters to get free movies and how complicated they have to like bring in like high level actuarials to develop loyalty programs because you need to factor in for like, for like big ones, like shoppers and stuff. Because you have to factor in if everybody comes in and uses their points, like what the dollar value is, because there has to be kind of that potential. So if everybody comes in and cashes out their dollars for inventory, they need to have that on hand.
[59:23]
B
I should put in the reserve. I should put in the notes. There's some very fascinating articles and studies on that in that the airlines, like, it's actually become a currency that they trade. And the airlines make most of their profit off of the points.
[59:36]
A
Yeah.
[59:36]
B
So they sell their points. So it's all. And that's why if you're always confused about point system, it's because they're using actuaries and it's become a currency that they trade on a market nobody sees.
[59:45]
A
Yes.
[59:46]
B
It's actually a big scam.
[59:47]
A
It's a huge thing. Well, even to. I realize this with shoppers who know, like, the optimum points that owns, like, like Esso and blah, blah, all these things that own them. I was, like, so addicted to the optimum points. And then I realized shoppers is, like 30% more money than everywhere else.
[60:01]
B
I'm like, you realize you're paying 30% more for everything so that you can collect points that are maybe worth 3% of the price it was.
[60:08]
A
I can't unsee it now, so I hope we impart some wisdom. Okay, back to hot or not. So let's talk about the AirPods for noise cancellation. This is a short film by Spike Jonze, and it's the actor from Narcos.
[60:26]
B
And The failed Gladiator 2, sadly. But he's got a good brand. I like the guy, but that movie sucked.
[60:33]
A
Oh, no. So I guess he, like, leaves someone. Anyways, it's a short film. It's worth you watching if you did. If you haven't, it's five minutes and 36 seconds. And it's actually a short film put on by Apple.
[60:44]
B
Hot or not, Philip, Everybody should watch it. I think it's a departure from their stupid newtopia. They're trying to tell a story. It's beautifully executed, and when you have a lot of money, you can have essentially, I don't even know how many millions this cost. I think it's hot in the visuals. I think it's hot in that it's trying to tell a story that's relatable to its audience. I think it creeps into naught because it allowed some creatives to go too far in terms of. This is what happens when you allow creatives like the old days. Rory would talk about it. You would have the most beautiful ad in a magazine, but nobody knew what it was for, right? And it just became. The art became higher than the message. So this short film, I think, is a little too long because it doesn't really have a plot in the end, and it wallows in beautiful visuals for too long rather than kind of moving from where the noise cancellation would affect their customer's life in a more practical level. So I'm saying not on that level because it's not practical enough, but artistic. It's one of their better ads.
[61:50]
A
To me, it's complicated to analyze because my. Okay, so on one hand, I watched it till the end. In that way, I got, you know, that gets a Check to the brand. Because I invested five minutes and 36 seconds on effectively waiting for, like, the kind of the pin to drop. I was really impressed by his ability to dance. I actually was like, like, let's go. I'm like, you're fantastic. And you can tell that he wasn't like a dancer, but he worked very hard for this short film, so I loved that. It also. I kind of felt to be completely raw and real. I was like, I feel like this also tells you that if anyone works hard enough, they can dance well. Because I was like, this is like, wicked how well he's dancing. But I agree with you. And I think where my brain goes is, you know, what was the point of this? Because really, Apple AirPods, they have the majority market share, like, who's really their top competitor. And you kind of realize, like, people from all socioeconomic classes because it's priced at a point where I'm not saying it's cheap, but it's definitely not expensive. You know, like $150 for a pair of earphones. Like, the average person can at least justify splurging on that. And that's where I think is really.
[63:03]
B
Interesting is because 10 years ago, 20 years ago, Bose owned this market.
[63:07]
A
Yeah.
[63:07]
B
But back it was 500 bucks. Back then it was really on its own. Like, you really had to be an audiophile, and so we didn't. What I think they're doing nicely is transferring that noise cancellation into an ability to enjoy life more. You know what I mean? Because it gets rid of the noise that can make us feel stressed.
[63:28]
A
I think this is a move for Apple to do, like, you know how before it was like, product placement in movies? It's like, for brands to do movies for their product, you know, like, because it's. Who is the customer? Like, who is this for? Like, what's really interesting to me is, like, every once in a while when I'm like, with my mom because she watches regular tv, crazy concept. I find it really fascinating for how brands get to TV commercials. And like, Apple watches have and like Fitbits have. And that's when I find it. There's like that really interesting kind of tipping point where the masses are now wearing these Apple watches and Fitbits. Like, it's no longer kind of a bit of a niche and AirPods are kind of the same. So who is this? Because it's not really an ad. It's an ad, but it's not. It's not speaking to the people who don't know about this. Product.
[64:19]
B
I think it's 100% an ad. But I think what it's speaking to, from my perspective, is it's trying to redefine the category of the noise cancellation earbuds so that it can get a higher price point. Because when I look at it, what it's showing is that this doesn't just cancel noise. It makes your life better. Because it's got very dreariness at the beginning. You put the noise canceling on, and all of a sudden it's full of color, it's full of joy, and a lot of people are carrying around stuff and aren't happy. And so it's trying to say, like, this just isn't a headphone that cancels noise. This is a pathway to being happier, you'd think.
[64:56]
A
But then he's still wearing the headphones, and he's still going through life with his head down while wearing them. And he almost is looking at a different version of himself with the headphones. So I don't think the headphones are the difference.
[65:10]
B
Well, it's saying that it's aspirational when you have this, you can change your life. I think what you're saying.
[65:14]
A
But he had them.
[65:15]
B
Yeah, but he wasn't using them well. Or he wasn't. That's where the ad kind of fails.
[65:20]
A
Yeah.
[65:20]
B
Because what I would do is I would have done this ad. Being in a noisy coffee shop, putting it on, and then being in a Zen garden or being on a subway and hearing a couple argue in a horrible way, putting them on and finding peace. Like showing where your users can make their life better if they just have this product.
[65:37]
A
To me, my core takeaway is I want to give it a hot. Because I watched it and it was different and I appreciated the color and, like, what they did, but it's not in the sense that it comes across to me as like, a brand with too much money. That's like doing things that's lacking impact because it. I don't. I don't feel more connected to the brand. I don't feel more connected to the product. I don't feel like it's doing artistic things for the sake of furthering the creative community. And I just. I kind of feel like they're paying for this top actor. And I'm waiting for the pin to drop, and it's not quite coming.
[66:13]
B
Good insight. The other thing I think about is, like, noise canceling. It's also kind of isolating. Right. Cause, like, when you have it on, you can't hear people. It Kind of takes you away from humans. But it's like saying when you put it on in this video, all of a sudden humans are dancing around you, but when you put it on, you're actually isolating yourself from hearing people.
[66:31]
A
Well, it's funny, the experience that I actually got from it before it turned so bright was I felt like a part of me is not living my life. Cause I felt more connected to the dark one, where I'm like, I feel like, yes, my head's down, people are avoiding me. I'm putting my headphones in. And I was even interestingly thinking about the other day, I had happened to not have my headphones in. And I realized a fork dropped into the carburetor. And I'm like, those are the things that I can miss when I'm constantly walking around with my noise act like my noise canceling. Because if I was looking here and it dropped there, I'm like, these are the moments that. So I actually didn't find that I felt coming out of this how powerful they are, because I really do love the app. I've got literally four pairs of them. But I felt more connected, even though I feel more aligned with a positive person because I'm happy and life is colorful for me. I'm like, to your point, your approach to it would have been a better click and reinforcing of I access my Zen garden when I have them in the coffee shop, versus I'm closing myself off. And I can't have random impromptu conferences.
[67:35]
B
Conversations, because, like, going for a walk with noise cancellation headphones in the forest is very stupid. Right? Like, you should hear the forest. You need to be bathed in the sound and smell and texture of the forest. And I think they're trying to. I think they're trying to cut off maybe what they see as a decline. Because there's also the talk about something so small, so close to your brain that is so powerful. You know, I think there's like, safety concerns coming. You're seeing more people wearing wired headphones these days. I think you might. They may have looked at it and said, look, we're susceptible to wired headphones coming in that change the dynamic. So that might be it as well.
[68:11]
A
Yeah. Complicated one. I'd love to hear your guys feedback on that. Hot or not.
[68:15]
B
Great dancing Dances with the Stars. I bet you. I think it was on Dances with the Stars. Actually.
[68:20]
A
He must have, because he was good. Like, it was really good. Okay, last. So I've got two more here, actually. I got three. I got four. I'll be really quick. Really quick. Rapid fire. Ikea and Severance did a collaboration for work that is mysterious and important. Acoustic screen for desk, $200 hot look.
[68:40]
B
That's a collaboration that's risky, but it's amazing that Severance is intellectual. It's well done. People love it, it's relating to them. And so it's relatable to the people who probably buy Ikea for their apartments in town, like, you know what I mean? In towns. And I think most people, because Severance is about the loneliness of the person working in a place by themselves, walking through it. And those people are generally Ikea's customers. Right. You put your furnishing a one or a two bedroom in an urban area. So I think that collaboration is amazing as long as they manage it not to lean into the negative aspects of the corporate world that Severance is talking to, which is where the danger is, because they're essentially showing office furniture that replicates that kind of suffocating environment that he's living in.
[69:23]
A
I wanted to go back actually a few weeks ago when I said that the Burberry bringing on that the Amy from White Lotus was a nod. And I actually wanted to kind of to take that back because it's been really cool showing up every Sunday to see that episode go live. Like, I really haven't done that in a long time. And it's interesting at the like with the pace of social media to be able for these brands to tap into a relevant moment. And I want to applaud brands for being able to move fast because so much of our criticism has been that they move too slowly. And I do like this, like, relevance tapping because it really gives these brands personality, which is what we're advocating for. So it was a risk. Well done. And I want to reward them.
[70:06]
B
I think it's a hot, yeah, dangerous ground, but at least they're doing something interesting. They'll get purchases from it.
[70:12]
A
Yeah, I think it's super smart. Well, but I think that's also the reason why I'm happy about it, is it's not dangerous ground because everybody watching the show knows it's a show. And that level of thinking is what's. Was what's held brands back for a long time. And they need to lean more into. We understand where there's creative freedom. Right. Like ikea. Tapping into that is making it more relevant because you're tuning in every Sunday to see the episode drop. You're not, you're not thinking. Same with the four seasons and White Lotus like we, the HR departments and the legal departments continue to say no.
[70:48]
B
I wouldn't be surprised that I didn't research this because you always surprised me with these. But I bet you IKEA is actually trying to furnish severance. Right. The same reason why Four Seasons wants to be the site of White Lotus. Because there's now nuance to association.
[71:02]
A
Yes. And no one thinks that by furnishing your office your severance, it just, it makes you more relevant, it gives range to the brand.
[71:10]
B
Because the design of Severance looks good. Like the furniture looks. Looks functional. Like everything is functional. So it's an interesting dynamic.
[71:17]
A
This is actually really interesting too. It's also Severance. So Apple is continuing its understated advertising spree on its hit Apple TV show called Severance. The Lumon Terminal Pro is a prop from the show and it's now listed on the Apple store alongside Max.
[71:31]
B
That is something that's kind of interesting.
[71:33]
A
Yeah. So it kind of makes you want to buy it. Yeah. If you've been, if you've been basically it's like attention severance fan. You've been dying to have your own in mini experience. Apple has a surprise for you. So they're actually selling it on the website.
[71:45]
B
I'm telling you it's a new like five years from now this is how products are going to be sold like on entertain, like just like we talk content, entertaining content, showcasing things like that's going to be how you generate sales.
[71:56]
A
This is an absolute hot for me.
[71:58]
B
Yeah.
[71:58]
A
So okay, this is last two. They're very fast. So GymNation unveils the world's first in Gym Hotel. So effectively it's like hotel rooms within a gym and the first was in the is in the Middle east and it is a really interesting collaboration. Hot or not.
[72:21]
B
What do you mean the hotel rooms in a gym like are people working out while you're in there? Kind of seems creepy but it looks like a full gym. Like it's not just that it has a chin up bar in your hotel room.
[72:30]
A
So the GymNation Hotel is right on site. Is right on site offering the ideal place to relax between sets or rest after a late night session. No need to head home for recovering any directly bookable through the gym. This isn't your typical hotel. It's a premium recovery hub specifically designed for fitness enthusiasts who are always ready to move. Picture dumbbell shaped towels to elevate your gym vibes and a press for protein button to have fresh protein shake delivered straight to your bed. Short on time. Switch on the TV for a quick gym flicks session while stretching or foam rolling. The GymNation Hotel isn't about snoozing. It's about fueling and resetting so you can stay on top of your fitness goals.
[73:06]
B
Is it an actual gym first or is it just a hotel chain that's this, like I'm all for increasing revenue funnels. So like if you're closed from nine to eight and you want to use your spot and rent it, like maybe you can rent out your coffee shops. You know what I mean? Everything can just be a hotel room. But I just, I think it's got a lot of issues.
[73:26]
A
So I was in Dubai.
[73:27]
B
Yeah, that. So Dubai. I've told this to people. When you have too much money, you see a lot of stupidity. Right? Great design has to have restrictions to force innovation. When you have too much money, you never get good design. You can get copying, you can get opulence, you can get beautiful hotel lobbies. But if the budget is unlimited, you don't get good design. And to me, this is a big nod for me.
[73:48]
A
It's interesting because I think it's fake. Like there's no real photos of what the hotel room would look like and it makes no sense to be sleeping in like the middle of the gym floor.
[73:58]
B
No, it's not enough.
[73:58]
A
So I think it's fake. I think it was designed to get pr.
[74:03]
B
But for who?
[74:05]
A
For the brand.
[74:06]
B
If gymnasium actually is gyms.
[74:08]
A
Yeah, it's a chain of gyms. The people's gym. Best gym in looks like Dubai. Pay monthly, open 24 7. So I think this was just like a PR move for people to be like, this is.
[74:17]
B
I bet you it's not true.
[74:18]
A
Yeah, I believe it's fake.
[74:21]
B
Try and book.
[74:21]
A
It doesn't make. There is no booking. Yeah, so it's fake, but so it's a parody.
[74:26]
B
Parodies can work. I don't know if it's will result in more sales or a better brand.
[74:31]
A
But yeah, I want to, I want to give it though a hot because I know.
[74:36]
B
Blown away.
[74:37]
A
I know.
[74:37]
B
No way.
[74:38]
A
I want to give it a hot because I found when I was doing like the research for this week and I was looking at the swipe throughs, it was one of the things that was the most shocking that stood out to me. And if it is fake, it doesn't cost a lot of money for the, for a brand to do something like that.
[74:53]
B
But we do a lot of, we've done a lot of. Of fitness facility work. If I'm like in a town looking for a high end gym, that doesn't, that doesn't make me want.
[75:00]
A
But it's not a high. It's kind of an elevated good life. Like it's a 247 gym. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a drop in gym concept.
[75:08]
B
Okay.
[75:08]
A
It's hard for brands like that to have breakout moments, but I don't think.
[75:13]
B
It translates into revenue or brand elevation.
[75:16]
A
I think it does because I think people that are in that market, they're now talking about that gym. They're more likely if they're deciding to sign up for a membership, go to one that's doing something viral. Like it's, it's the simplicity sometimes of virality when you're a gym chain. Right. Like if they have a hundred of them in Dubai and they're all over the place and this is like breaking news on the Internet, it's going to result in a lift because it's awareness.
[75:39]
B
Agree to disagree.
[75:40]
A
Yeah, let us know guys, what you think. All right, last one. Okay, so Doc Martens did a collab with Brat dolls. So there's like now a full line of Brat Doc Martens on the Doc Marten website. And they have a, they had a really co breakout video of like Bratz wearing Doc Martens and we had a bunch of like K pop stars wearing them. And this was like a big collab this week. So hot or not, I am a.
[76:06]
B
Big fan of the Doc Martin brand. When I was young, it was cool. Their product has a really cool story and I always found their shoes very comfortable and it was kind of the first dress shoes I had when I was in university. Like that kind of looked like a dress shoe, but it was casual. But then it had that, that soul that was so cool. I always liked the brand. I didn't know where it went for probably a couple decades. So I like the idea because the products are generally good. What I'm concerned about is they have too many SKUs or trying to please too many people. But I do see this appealing to young people. There is something about the Doc Martin story that appeals to people and Bratz is probably a good way to get some people interested in it who are younger.
[76:46]
A
Well, it's interesting on the Bratz front though is like I don't even know if Bratz are relevant to younger kids anymore.
[76:52]
B
No, yeah, they're right. They're in their 20s because Bratz was.
[76:54]
A
When I was young. And the woman who runs Bratz also runs a really high end fashion brand. Called Cult Gaia because it was her father that I guess started Bratz. So she now runs it. So it having a fashion collab makes sense for kind of where the brand is going. I think on the face it's hot because basically the way Bratz worked is like they always had these like big boots or big shoes because it was like clicking. So I think it's a really smart move for the understanding of the brand. What sucks for me is I find the designs like, weirdly for like kind of a northwest, like a 12 to 14 year old, which I just, I don't know if the mom that has a 12 to 14 year old had Bratz or if the 12 to 14 year old is reaching the Doc Martin message. Like, they're not particularly like, like why they've got like here, I'll show you. Like, who's that?
[77:46]
B
What's that?
[77:46]
A
Brand new John Fluvog.
[77:48]
B
Fluvag, right. It's like kind of in that flu.
[77:50]
A
But like, look at that purse. Like it's a little heart shaped. They put like this, like, who's wearing this pink?
[77:55]
B
I wonder if they got bought Doc Martens I should check out. Because whenever you see the introduction of tons of new skus. Right? Like, rather than keeping your classic pieces because they look like they're going too.
[78:06]
A
Far to me, it just, I don't know who the customer is for this. Like, I think it's really cool and I would have bought if they had done the collab right. Like maybe the stitching was purple instead or like it was more subtle. Like more for, let's say, festival season. But this just kind of seems like, you know what, maybe it's for the Korean or Asian audience. Like, this does kind of feel k.
[78:28]
B
Poppy because remember, they love tiny like miniature croissants, miniature everything. Like I can imagine on a Brat being able to take off a. A Doc Martens shoe and have like the real tiny Doc Martens. Like that would be cool.
[78:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe that's the angle. A's are going for like a Korean.
[78:43]
B
Asian audience.
[78:44]
A
An Asian audience. Because that's to me, I don't understand who the customer is, but. But overall a hot.
[78:49]
B
Good for them.
[78:50]
A
Cool.
[78:50]
B
Doing something interesting.
[78:52]
A
Well, that wraps up this week's episode of Art of the Brand. If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it. Yes, because shares matter more than follows. Obviously we'd love a follow, but if you're going to do one thing for us, share it. And second, if you haven't checked it out yet, the social Media Masterclass is now available. We poured our heart and soul into.
[79:11]
B
This and we reward people to get to the end. So. So now if you go into the bio, you can click and get a discount on the course for a listen to the end.
[79:18]
A
And if you can't afford it, send us a message because we want to help all business owners. Thanks for stopping in for this week's episode out of the Brand.

Summary8 min read

Podcast Summary: The Art of the Brand Episode: The Algorithm Doesn’t Make Mistakes — How to Take Control of Your Brand, Content, and Growth
Release Date: April 7, 2025
Hosts: Camille Moore and Phillip Millar
Duration: Approximately 80 minutes
Transcript Provided by User

1. Introduction and Recap

The episode kicks off with a brief recap of a significant prior episode titled "Camille on Trial." Camille shares her experience of being on trial, emphasizing the immense support and positivity received by staying authentic and transparent. Camille states:

"For me, the really core takeaway was how much support and positivity comes through when you're raw and when you're real." ([01:24])

Phillip echoes this sentiment, highlighting the importance of stepping into uncomfortable situations for personal and business growth.

2. Authenticity in Branding and Building a Tribe

Camille:
Emphasizes the value of sharing both highs and lows to build a loyal community. She advises business owners to “post everything” as a means to create raving fans.

Phillip:
Reflects on the surprising interest people have in legal issues and authentic stories, noting that real-life challenges can inspire and engage audiences.

3. Mastering the Algorithm

The hosts delve into the interplay between content creation and social media algorithms. They assert that:

"The algorithm does not make mistakes. Seek the content you want to receive. On the other hand, create the content that you want to be known for, because the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target." ([00:00])

Key Points:

Intentional Content Creation:
Don't be a slave to the algorithm; instead, master it by intentionally searching for and creating desired content. Phillip succinctly puts it:

"Don't be a slave to the algorithm. Be a master of the algorithm." ([00:12])
Reframing Social Media Use:
By curating search habits and content preferences, users can train algorithms to serve more valuable and relevant content, enhancing personal growth and brand alignment.
Practical Application:
Camille shares a strategy to view every action as an opportunity to generate content, fostering a mindset shift essential for consistent and meaningful content creation.

4. Leveraging ChatGPT for Business Growth

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to effectively utilizing ChatGPT as a tool for business strategy and content creation.

Camille's Insights:

Prompting Techniques:
Introduces six essential prompt directions to ensure ChatGPT provides CEO-level, actionable responses:
1. Clarify the Real Objective: Define clear goals.
2. Provide Necessary Context: Include who, what, why, and how.
3. Specify What’s Missing or Undesirable: Guide the AI on what to avoid.
4. Request Strategy and Actionable Steps: Move beyond ideas to executable plans.
5. Ask for Deliverables: Ensure the output is comprehensive and usable.
6. Identify Blind Spots: Encourage the AI to highlight potential risks or unknowns.
"Point number three is ChatGPT said you told ChatGPT what you didn't want." ([26:47])
Case Study:
Camille contrasts her effective, outcome-oriented prompting with her team's task-oriented responses, demonstrating the superior quality and applicability of her approach.

Phillip's Contributions:

Advanced Utilization:
Shares an example involving analyzing competitor strategies and decision-maker profiles to derive tailored marketing themes, showcasing the depth possible with proper ChatGPT usage.
Encouraging Depth Over Laziness:
Stresses the importance of pushing ChatGPT beyond surface-level answers by providing comprehensive context and clear directives.

Notable Quote:

"It's lazy and linear. It's only going to give you what you're asking of it." ([26:47])

5. Book Discussions: "Chop Wood Carry Water" and "Pound the Stone"

The hosts explore insights from two impactful books that resonate with their branding philosophy.

"Chop Wood Carry Water" by Joshua Medcalf:

Key Concept - Building Your Own House:
Illustrates the importance of being present and committed to every task, treating each action as if it's building one's own legacy.

"It's a strong message for your team in remembering... treat this business like it's your house." ([37:14])
Societal Reflection:
Highlights society's addiction to easy shortcuts and underscores the value of doing hard, meaningful work to achieve greatness.

"Greatness is reserved for the few who choose to do hard things." ([40:13])

"Pound the Stone" by Joshua Medcalf:

Elephant Analogy:
Discusses how past experiences can create invisible ropes holding individuals back, urging listeners to identify and remove these self-imposed limitations.

"What ropes are you still living with now that you're an adult that aren't truly holding you back?" ([12:32])

Phillip's Takeaway:

"Our society is addicted to easy right now... people want to take the shortcuts, but you can't really take shortcuts. You have to get the right advice, strategy." ([39:02])

6. Hot or Not: Evaluating Recent Brand Campaigns

In this engaging segment, Camille and Phillip review and critique various brand campaigns, categorizing them as "Hot" or "Not."

Featured Campaigns:

Ramow Holiday Case by Ramow:
- Description: A vintage Pan Am-esque luggage set revival celebrating bold archival design.
- Verdict: Hot
  Phillip: Appreciates the nostalgia and trend alignment but has minor reservations about the color palette.
  
  "I think they're on the right trend." ([48:06])
Puma - "I Got High":
- Description: A commercial playing on the double entendre of "getting high" from running versus substance use.
- Verdict: Not
  Camille: Finds the ad lackluster and misaligned with Puma’s brand identity.
  
  "It's just not Puma." ([52:10])
Hellman's Ketchup - "Ketchup Currency":
- Description: A microsite where consumers scan ketchup packets to receive discounts on mayonnaise.
- Verdict: Hot
  Phillip: Commends the guerrilla marketing approach and gamification elements.
  
  "It's a brilliant guerrilla strategy." ([54:20])
Coors Light - AI-Driven Seat Rewards:
- Description: Rewards consumers with more beer based on the obstruction level of their stadium seats.
- Verdict: Hot
  Camille: Values the cost-effective engagement and brand alignment.
  
  "It's intelligent... it aligns with their customer base." ([55:36])
Apple - AirPods Noise Cancellation Short Film:
- Description: A short film by Spike Jonze depicting transformative experiences through noise-canceling AirPods.
- Verdict: Mixed
  Phillip: Appreciates the artistic effort but feels it lacks practical messaging.
  Camille: Likes the visuals but questions the connection to the product's practical benefits.
  
  "It's one of their better ads, but not quite impactful." ([60:44])
IKEA and Severance Collaboration:
- Description: Acoustic screens for desks inspired by the TV show "Severance."
- Verdict: Hot
  Phillip: Praises the intellectual alignment and relevance tapping.
  Camille: Commends the brand’s agility in leveraging relevant content for personality.
  
  "It's super smart... relevance tapping gives brands personality." ([70:06])
GymNation - World's First Gym Hotel:
- Description: Hotel rooms integrated within a gym, catering to fitness enthusiasts.
- Verdict: Hot
  Phillip: Sees it as a PR move that could enhance brand awareness despite practical concerns.
  Camille: Feels it's more about generating buzz than genuine functionality.
  
  "It's one of the most shocking that stood out to me." ([74:03])
Doc Martens x Bratz Collaboration:
- Description: A collaborative line of Bratz-themed Doc Martens footwear.
- Verdict: Hot
  Phillip: Supports the brand’s move to attract younger audiences but has design reservations.
  Camille: Likes the brand alignment but questions the target demographic’s relevance.
  
  "It's a hot because they're doing something interesting." ([75:00])

Notable Insights:

Authenticity and Relevance:
Successful campaigns often align closely with brand identity and current trends, fostering genuine connections with the target audience.
Innovation vs. Practicality:
While innovative ideas like the GymNation Hotel create buzz, their practical application and alignment with consumer needs determine long-term success.
Engagement through Gamification:
Campaigns that incorporate interactive elements, such as Hellman’s Ketchup Currency, effectively boost consumer engagement and brand recall.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Camille and Phillip wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of strategic content creation, mastering algorithms, and maintaining authenticity. They encourage listeners to share the podcast, highlighting the value of community support over mere follow counts.

Camille:

"If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it. Because shares matter more than follows." ([78:49])

Phillip:
Mentions the availability of their "Social Media Masterclass," emphasizing their commitment to supporting business owners.

Final Quote:

"The algorithm does not make mistakes... the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target." ([19:14])

Key Takeaways:

Master Your Tools:
Utilize algorithms and AI like ChatGPT strategically to enhance brand growth and content effectiveness.
Authenticity Builds Community:
Sharing genuine experiences and being transparent fosters strong, loyal customer bases.
Strategic Content Creation:
Intentional and context-rich content prompts better engagement and alignment with business objectives.
Continuous Learning and Adaptation:
Stay informed on best practices, leverage insights from impactful books, and remain adaptable to evolving market trends.

Recommended Actions for Business Owners:

Optimize Your ChatGPT Usage:
Implement the six prompt directions to extract actionable, strategic insights from AI tools.
Engage Authentically on Social Media:
Share both successes and challenges to build a relatable and loyal community.
Stay Ahead of Trends:
Regularly review and analyze brand campaigns for inspiration and to avoid common pitfalls.
Invest in Personal and Team Growth:
Encourage reading influential books and adopting philosophies that promote hard work, authenticity, and continuous improvement.

Resources Mentioned:

Books:
- Chop Wood Carry Water by Joshua Medcalf
- Pound the Stone by Joshua Medcalf
- Steal Like an Artist by Austin Kleon
- Greatness Is Reserved for the Few Who Choose to Do Hard Things (Quoted from Chop Wood Carry Water)
Tools:
- ChatGPT
- Claude 2
- Grok
- Gemini Deep Research

Connect with The Art of the Brand:

Social Media Masterclass:
Available through the podcast’s bio link, offering discounts for listeners.
Support and Community:
Business owners are encouraged to reach out for personalized assistance, ensuring inclusivity regardless of budget constraints.

Final Message:

Camille and Phillip emphasize the importance of embracing suspense and enjoying the journey of brand building, reminding listeners that the interplay of strategy, authenticity, and continuous learning leads to enduring success.

"Find joy in this moment... that's what makes the journey the best are those moments until you figured it out." ([42:11])

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Art of the Brand. Share, subscribe, and join us in mastering the art of branding and strategy.

Loading summary

Transcript293 lines

[00:00]
A
The algorithm does not make mistakes. Seek the content you want to receive. On the second hand, create the content that you want to be known for, because the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target.
[00:12]
B
It's almost like reframing it. Don't be a slave to the algorithm. Be a master of the algorithm.
[00:17]
A
So the whole idea is that I got high, and it's a Puma commercial, and it's basically the idea that she got high running. And that is the concept. So that it's kind of playing on smoking weed, but it's the high because she went running hot or not.
[00:36]
B
What a brand, what a brand, what.
[00:37]
A
A brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what.
[00:43]
B
A brand, what a mighty good brand.
[00:46]
A
Welcome back to another episode of Art of the Brand. This week is a big week. We're coming off of Camille on Trial, which was a really big moment. We've done a whole podcast segment on that, which, for those who liked the posts, please listen to that. For me, the really core takeaway was how much support and positivity comes through when you're raw and when you're real. And it's such an important takeaway for business owners is like post everything. The highs, the lows. That's how you build a tribe. And raving fans.
[01:24]
B
Yeah. I was always surprised how interested people are in law. You know, like, I used to post more about legal issues. People were fascinated about it. But now that it's more business. But definitely this. That podcast about Camille on trial is going to give you some interesting insights on what a trial looks like. When hotshot lawyers think they're going to take on what they consider an ordinary citizen who then eats their lunch in front of the whole courtroom.
[01:48]
A
Yeah, honestly, it's a. It's a really good podcast episode and a listen for you business owners that need that kick in the pants to show up and do things that are uncomfortable because it's. Times are tough, like you need to be able to actually stand up for yourself. And it was such an empowering experience. It's not about the money. We did win both cases, so we made back our few thousand bucks. But it really wasn't about the money. It was the growth that. That I experienced. And that's where everyone was so overwhelmingly positive and supportive. And it's. I'm not gonna lie, it's really nice when people show up and they're, like, cheering you on. So it was a really great. So Camille on Trial, that episode is out. You've Also had a big week. Do you wanna share the camera? Your newest baby?
[02:41]
B
This is the picture of me with whatever these cameras are called, Polaroids in front of my new Tesla Cybertruck. I was an original buyer of Tesla Model X seven years ago. So I've always been a big fan of the company, the technology and the brand, and wanted to show my support by continuing to support amazing products and leave the politics out of it. However, as you were aware, I did engage with the protesters for about half an hour in healthy dialogue about what's going on there. And I literally, I think about half of them I talked to in the end were like, those are good points we hadn't thought about. And one of my pleasures in life is just engaging in good dialogue with people who disagree with me.
[03:22]
A
It's to stir the pot.
[03:24]
B
No, I think humans need to understand what's important rather than just kind of do what they're told is important. And we don't have enough dialogue with people who disagree with us. And it's a main thing I was writing about this week. People are. People want to be right so badly that they no longer care about finding the truth.
[03:42]
A
Yeah.
[03:42]
B
And I think it's really applicable. Probably talk about in the podcast in the marketing and branding world.
[03:46]
A
Yeah.
[03:47]
B
Right. The truth is what matters if you're looking for success, not what your tribe wants to feel is right.
[03:54]
A
I think it's. No, I was actually gonna say I think it's deeper than that. I actually don't think that that statement was deep enough because I think that it's. The problem is that a lot of the poor decisions that are being made right now in branding or marketing are being done through the lens that because it matters to you, you therefore think it matters to a brand that you haven't built into all of their customers. And the justification of this matters to people is why it gets across the line and across the table. When really putting larger issues on faceless companies, especially companies where like, these are trends of the moment versus brands that have been built over decades or a century, it becomes. It just becomes very sticky territory. So it's. It's even deeper than what you said because it's not necessari. It's not even about what you think that they want. It's that there's actually no indication that the populace for this brand or that, like the community for the brand has indicated they want that. It's that in your position because so much of what you do to give them credit at least, is you're very Siloed, Right. Like you're making these decisions in your 14th floor office and the people that you're really needing to speak to is the board.
[05:08]
B
You know what was a missed opportunity for me, and I know that I must walk and spend two minutes in the box and feel shame because I did not film these dialogues. It was my potential kind of moment to interview people. The conversations were phenomenal. Like, they're actually warm. I should have filmed them. And I didn't follow our own advice in terms of authentic content. I just went out and had a conversation.
[05:30]
A
Well, I think that's actually a really good actual takeaway that we can kick off with in that it's funny we don't talk enough about our own growth and how uncomfortable it is to like document your life and like create content as a business owner, which is what Philip and I are also doing. And for me, a big takeaway that's really changed for me is one, just getting in the habit of trying to see everything you're doing as an opportunity to shoot content. So just first and foremost going through the mental shift of like, okay, I'm going into a meeting, what could I shoot? What could I record? I'm going to go pick up my new car, what could I shoot? What could I record? And it's not even necessarily to use it in the beginning, it's just getting in the mental head space. Because there's nothing more frustrating than when you leave these big events, especially as a business owner. When you're running these events, your mind is doing the work, you're not thinking about yourself. So you first need to go through that mental shift. And then once you go through the mental shift, then you can be more critical on yourself. And you should be critical on yourself because in the beginning it's not going to be good, but at least you're thinking about it. And that's number one. And then number two is then when you're thinking about it, getting better at what you get. And then three, the third step is once it starts getting better, having a plan and a so what? So on one hand you should have just a bank of content that is just useful for reels or for swipe throughs or for you to post just for. You have to kind of have filler to use because seldom, you know how many, how many photo shoots are you doing per year. Like you need kind of that filler content for the background of graphics or stories. But two, once you start thinking about a so what to your point, like you could have created some really great content at the dealership.
[07:21]
B
I just wrote down. I'm gonna go back on Saturday with my son and get him to. I'm just gonna have a goal to try and get people to agree on a couple things.
[07:28]
A
Yeah.
[07:29]
B
And have a good discussion. Cause that's what I like to do.
[07:31]
A
Well, even what we talked about with you this week. Philip is a prolific YouTube consumer, and he's consuming so much YouTube content. Like, every single piece of video that you consume on YouTube, make a video on it. Steal like an artist. Amazing book that you guys should read. Austin Cleon. And basically, the premise is, like, all those. Those four different videos that you've watched, the accumulation of the range, your life experience, the touch point through those four videos, you're not taking anything. You're repurposing it. You're making it your own. You're making it better. And that's, like, an easy way to start getting into it. But ultimately, like me filming that video when we got out of the courthouse, that is a trained skill, and it did so well. But there's, like. It's so easy for me to be like, holy shit, I've been in here for an hour. I've got emails to do, like, let's go for lunch. Let's get. Like. But to stop and in the intentionality of shooting takes time to get there. But it's so valuable for you to do it because that video did, like, 35,000 views and. And it took nothing to do it.
[08:27]
B
No. And I'm one of those people who. A lot of our listeners are. Who are business owners, who. I don't really like having the camera trained on me. You know what I mean? Like, I like serving others, helping others. I'll step into the fight when it's there, but when it's just on you, it makes me feel uncomfortable that I feel like I'm putting too much tension on myself and I missed a good opportunity that I didn't do a video like you did outside the courtroom when I was leaving the Tesla dealership about why I purchased the Cybertruck.
[08:53]
A
But here's. Here's the true secret. It doesn't come easy to me either. Even though I'm younger, you know, like, it. It's actually something that has me. I've been. I think back, and I get so mad at myself for how many, like, trips we've done, how many cool moments there's been that I haven't thought about how to leverage that as a piece of content. And obviously, hindsight is everything, but it doesn't come easy even to be mean.
[09:16]
B
I wonder if I can. One thing I did when I was younger that made me a great speaker when I talk in front of crowds or in courtrooms or to officials, is I took Toastmasters when I was young.
[09:28]
A
Such a great program.
[09:29]
B
And I don't know how many people who are our listeners take Toastmasters, but for something that seems so simple, it really helps you build a couple of building blocks. And the best part of it to me, every week somebody would take turns giving a 10 minute speech to the group of supporting people. And it was awesome because you'd have somebody who'd count the amount of ahs you said. You'd get really healthy, constructive feedback in a safe spot. Amazing organization for young and the old. But the thing I liked the most was called Table topics. And so you would just, somebody would write 10 random topics on and everybody would pick it and then you'd turn it over and you had to talk about that topic for one minute just off the top of your head. Just teaching you to get comfortable, not having a script. Right. And it's hard at the beginning. But I think for anybody who wants to start creating content, you might meet some people. But doing something like Table topics with your team can get you over that edge where you can learn to talk because you have good things to say. You just have to get past those barriers you've put there to speaking freely.
[10:27]
A
I'm listening right now to a book by Roger Love, who's a really famous voice coach. And it's really funny that you brought that up because really his whole premise, and it's a fantastic audiobook, I highly recommend because he does both voice coaching by way of singing. He's worked with all the big singers, but he also does voice coaching. And he says one of his clients. Super fascinating point. Actually studied effectively the intonation of the English language and realized that there's certain like tonal values that professions exist within. So like bankers, like basically their O's are more like muted and then like, you know, teachers would have like a higher, like. So it was really fascinating.
[11:11]
B
Radio hosts who are on classical music are very breathy.
[11:18]
A
Yes. But the premise of his book, which is really fascinating, is that so many people default to calling themselves tone deaf. He goes, tone deafness is actually a very rare condition that is often onset from damage to the eardrums. Like you actually are deaf to the tone versus you are untrained to use your voice. And the whole concept is that also your intonation, your tone, your strength of word choice. It's actually a trainable skill and to kind of. To leverage listening to that book and doing something like a Toastmasters. It's like you're not limited to what you feel you're stuck with. These are like, okay, one last passage from the book I'm reading this week, Pound the Stone. Really an interesting kind of analogy kind of fable. Have you heard the story where elephants, when they're. When they're grown up, basically, like their master only holds onto them by a very small piece of rope. And the reason that they hold on to this piece of rope is because when they're. When they're babies, the elephants, when they're the. When they fight the most, the rope can actually hold them back. And they're trained at that age that they can't break that rope.
[12:32]
B
They think the rope is unbreakable because of their past experiences.
[12:35]
A
Yes. And the idea is, like, what ropes are you still living with now that you're an adult that aren't truly holding you back?
[12:43]
B
This is getting deep. Like parents telling you that you're not good enough to talk. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of stuff there that could be holding you back that really isn't holding you back. You're just allowing it to. Good analogy for content. May I provide one last rogue lawyer tip of the week, please. Since we're on the topic of public speaking listed as scarier than skydiving. Right. I wanted to share with the audience if they don't know. And I'll ask you, how many people know where butterflies come from? Butterflies is that feeling in your stomach when you get nervous.
[13:13]
A
Yeah. I don't know.
[13:14]
B
Right. Most people don't know where it comes from. And it makes them feel scared. I'm getting butterflies. It makes them feel scared.
[13:21]
A
Yeah.
[13:22]
B
What butterflies is. And it's a sign to you that it's time for you to perform. Because when we're not engaged in a fight or flight or important situation, the majority of our blood actually resides in our small intestines. Our small intestines are huge, like, quite like the length of a football field if you lay them out or whatever, the majority of our blood sits in our small intestines digesting food. When our body. When our brain and body realize that we're in a position where we have to perform, the adrenal glands release. What's it called? Adrenaline. And what adrenaline does is it tells the body, this blood in my small intestines for digestion is needed in my brain and my Muscles, because I have to perform. And so when you get in that situation, you'll feel these butterflies. That's the blood just being redirected to your muscles and your brain so you can be better. So next time you feel butterflies, welcome it, say, amazing. My body knows it's time for me to prepare. This is blood going to where it's needed at the moment. And then lean into that butterfly moment because your body knows it's time for you to show up.
[14:25]
A
Well, that also probably speaks to. To why you feel, like, almost it's very close to feeling like you have to go to the washroom. You know, like, it's a very fine line of, like, how everything is, like, happening in there. But it's such a great. It's such a great point because I. So many of the. Of my age and younger, when you get that sense of sensation, of feeling, we're just. We retreat back. Like, we don't lean into it. And that's why the whole Camille entre, like, I was fucking scared shitless when I was, like, going into the courthouse because I didn't know what was ahead of me. It's the Pima Trodern concept of resistance when things fall apart. Another great book of what we fear most is the idea of the thing, not the thing itself. But it was those moments when you feel. I had actually a friend of mine, she said this so astutely. She said, whenever I feel that she goes, that's when I know to lean into it because it's what feels uncomfortable, but I'm gonna actually get something from it. So that's lean into it philosophical brand conversation. Well, let's, I guess, lead into now. The. So we've got two topics actually that I want to touch on that are algorithm AI focused and number one is what you search matters. So this is a conversation that you and I were having this week, and it's a really important takeaway for listeners that what you search for on social media matters, because what you search for is what you see.
[15:51]
B
I remember this conversation.
[15:52]
A
It's good for you and how important it is to be intentional with what you're searching because it's going to improve and change your algorithm.
[15:59]
B
You want me to expand on it?
[16:00]
A
Yeah, jump in.
[16:01]
B
I just think, like, some people. Sometimes people are like, how do you get that? How did you find that out? And you actually set the conditions for your own consumption of information by what you go on. And I think too many people start on social media because they want to look at football, hunting, fashion trends, Celebrities, Right. It was the fastest way to kind of get the skinny on that stuff. But now the algorithm has a profile on you and it's going to feed you that. And you almost have to accidentally get something that really. But a lot of people are inquisitive, curious and desire real knowledge. But because they've been on social media, it's trained them to consume that content. It feeds them that content. What we've done with some people is get them kind of on a detox where you can sometimes start a new profile or just start searching every day. Things that will make you smarter, like, you know what I mean? Top 10 philosophers in the the world. Right. Best way to analyze financial documents. Right. The top marketing trends of this. So you can train the algorithm that you're spending so much time on to recognize that you want that information. And then it'll start feeding you things that will make your life better rather than just take time off your life.
[17:08]
A
The whole reason why we came onto this is that we had an in person session with our team last week and one of our team members had sent me over the course of a few days some really great videos. And I was like thanking her for it, but like also having that moment of like, let's connect over like what was kind of sent offline. And her comment out loud was, yeah, like, my algorithm has been really good the last few days. And it led us down a rabbit hole of us having this conversation where it's really important what you search for and how you spend your time online. Because it's so easy to not get. See that video because you went for purses instead of clicking on that, you know the base claw clip breakdown, right? How the algorithm then starts spewing you more content based on what you've clicked on. Because the whole point of what the algorithm is trying to do is trying to keep you on that app longer.
[18:01]
B
It's almost like reframing it. Don't be a slave to the algorithm. Be a master of the algorithm. Like put in inputs so the algorithm can make you better. You can still have fun on it, but at least every day put in search inputs that tell the algorithm what you want to see.
[18:15]
A
I disagree. I think it's, you should be using socials for what you want to get out of it. And if you find that you're kind of mad at yourself, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that you know at the end of the night you're just like brain rotting because you're just getting like Real Housewives of Atlanta clips. And then it's like how to do heatless blowout curls. And you feel like you're just in this, like, doom scroll. You have to actively change what you're seeing. And that's what makes social media so interesting, especially from another perspective on the kind of content that you're creating for who you want to attract. The algorithm does not make mistakes. And if you do a video that's for a, like, for a niche audience or for a niche company, like, they're going to get it. And maybe it's not on the first, but keep making that content because the algorithm is super intelligent. So on one hand, seek the content you want to receive. On the second hand, create the content that you want to be known for, because the algorithm is going to connect you with your ideal target.
[19:14]
B
Perfect.
[19:15]
A
Cool. All right, so next section. So really interesting. Remember that we talked about two episodes ago, Pretty Little thing, that fast fashion brand had done that full rebrand. Well, the top comment on its post that got the most likes was someone calling out the Pretty Little thing rebrand for the ChatGPT hyphen. And there's this video of this roundtable of women that talk on TikTok. And I love this video. And they were basically kind of breaking down of how now people are calling out the signals for ChatGPT writing and how it's kind of like ChatGPT malpractice to leave in those indicators. Now, what's funny about that is I went to school for English. One of my signatures, so that hyphen is called the EM dash. And I love writing with the EM dash. So I felt instantly targeted because I'm like, shoot, now I need to change my writing style because people are now calling out the ChatGPT hyphen.
[20:18]
B
These discussions to me are a complete waste of time, really, on one level, because there's just people who want to signal that they're on top of something. And I think it goes back to what I talked to about status last week. You can't do big things if you're focused on small things. And most people are focused on small things. Why is this person driving so slow? Why did this person do that? Why did you spell that wrong? There are people who live in the world of the small, right? And they use it to kind of just take shots at people. But, like, use ChatGPT, put in the good inputs and then judge if the content is helpful or not. Who gives a frick if it's got the hyphen. Like, yes, I personally will do things to make sure that the. So it doesn't look like there's chatgpt in there.
[20:58]
A
The random bolding.
[20:59]
B
Yeah, but if there is, like, I don't care. I just. We just want to make good content, share it, and raise everybody up. But I love that quote. You can't do big things if you're focused on the small things, and that's in your personal and profess life.
[21:10]
A
Yeah. No, and you're completely correct. It's interesting. I. Okay, so one, like, all hail. You're. You nailed it. I completely agree.
[21:19]
B
I wasn't trying to undercut your point. I just mean, like, it just made me.
[21:22]
A
You're right. And what I thought was actually really interesting. The reason why you're right, and what's fascinating about this is one, I wanted to talk about the origins of the EM dash because the reason why I loved writing with it is that it. It has a very interesting historical context. So it was actually Emily Dickinson that made or that popularized the EM dash in her poetry in the 1800s. Because before Emily Dickinson, she's a prolific American writer. Poet, Some people might not know. Don't roll your eyes. But before her style of writing, it was very rigid. And what she brought to poetry is that it was more conversational, so it better represented kind of like the true human thought. So the idea of the EM dash, or using the EM dash was to signal, like pause, hesitation, or breath. So it was to represent kind of the rhythm and ambiguity.
[22:10]
B
More conversational.
[22:11]
A
More conversational. And what's interesting is that's why I've used it is I like it as a kind of a connector between thoughts and the reason. So I asked ChatGPT why it uses it so much. And the reason. The example that it gave me is that it actually makes the copy feel casual, human, and conversational. And it's a. Basically, it's a quick, clean way to break up long sentences without feeling academic. And it mimics how we pause and speech. So it performs better in digital environments, emails, captions, and blogs. And it keeps people scrolling because it visually breaks the wall of text. And what's interesting is it said a lot of the readers and some editors are saying ChatGPT overuses it in their right. The algorithm was trained on mountains of modern blog content, captions and articles that heavily favor the EM dash to keep writing, informal, scrollable, and easy to digest. It's not a bug, it's by design.
[23:03]
B
And ChatGPT has scholarly. You can go on ChatGPT Scholar and get different types of answers, but I.
[23:09]
A
Think that really the answer that we're getting here and the reason why the EM dash is popularized is to your exact point is that you're literally picking fly shit out of pepper because beautiful.
[23:19]
B
Just take a moment and imagine that everybody with tweezers.
[23:23]
A
But it's like when you look at that paragraph by pretty little thing, it makes it read much better. And it's such a moot point. People. This is, this is seven days out from Forever 21 saying that they've gone bankrupt for the second time. Fast fashion is at an all time low. This brand is trying to save itself. It's also. They're just literally going for any way to attack it.
[23:48]
B
That person exists in every corporation that exists to point out why things aren't perfect and you can't get anything done. Like it's why the 80% solution on time is better than 100% late.
[23:59]
A
Yeah.
[23:59]
B
These people exist everywhere. They're in the corporate marketing departments, they're everywhere. And that's why founders can't get stuff done. You need to have consultants who get you and move you forward.
[24:10]
A
And before I move on to the last section, the reason why it's called the EM dash, I thought it because it's em. I thought it was the EM dash because of Emily Dickinson, but it's called the EM dash. The EM dash because the dash is the same width as an M. So it takes up the same amount of space on a page. All right, so next segment is actually also chatgpt, but then after this we'll move out. And this was a really interesting experience that we had with the team this week and that I got this email from this client and how they were using ChatGPT versus how I use ChatGPT. And I figured this is actually a really good segment to bring you guys all through for how you're using ChatGPT and how you're directing your team to use it.
[24:52]
B
What did you ask the team to do?
[24:53]
A
I asked the team to give me a response to the email that I, the client had given me and I forwarded it to them and the response I got was task oriented, not action oriented. And it was not good enough.
[25:09]
B
Effectively. Yeah.
[25:10]
A
And when I had gone and when I found the time to put it into ChatGPT and do it myself, I got on the first pass exactly what I was looking for. And I stopped myself and I said, okay, this needs to be a teachable moment for myself in how I direct the team as well as for my team to learn how I'm wanting to use ChatGPT. So I put in my answer, I took their two answers and I said, based on the difference in response, can you provide an analysis or a summary of how I got to mine versus how they got to theirs? And the response was fascinating. And I think this is a really important segment. So number one was that my prompt was outcome oriented versus task oriented. So a lot of people are in quotations, lazy in the sense that they will just ask, like, can you reply.
[25:56]
B
To this email, you know, indicating that we were time constraint, you know, whatever it was, da da, da da. And then it will just explain.
[26:03]
A
Yeah. So like their prompts were task oriented and generic. They likely asked what content can we make with this story? Or how can we use this patient story for content. Right. But it misses the bigger opportunity to tie it strategically to the brand's goals. Right. Versus mine, which is more action oriented. I focused the prompt on the actual goal and I didn't just ask a simple like task oriented question. And then the second is that I included context that actually mattered. So what most people miss when they're speaking in ChatGPT is they don't provide context. And context is very relevant because it's a language learning model. So without context it can only give you based on the knowledge at hand, which is limited.
[26:47]
B
The language learning model is lazy and linear is what I found to just throw some else in there. So when people kind of say, oh my God, ChatGPT and they don't like it, ChatGPT just reflects the intelligence and the ability of the user to ask the right questions. And personally I've experienced this where I've started almost kind of giving ChatGPT shit and saying, look, that answer is lazy. Now it's probably my fault, but I think you have to push the models. You have to give it context. You have to say, I do not want a linear traditional response. I want you to understand the context of where we are, what do I want to achieve and where we need to go.
[27:23]
A
You nailed it. That's actually point number three is ChatGPT said you told ChatGPT what you didn't want. So that's very important, very important to tell them what you don't want. Because again, it's, it's lazy and linear. It's only going to give you what you're asking of it. So if you're not giving context, if you're not focusing on it being like more action oriented and it having context as well as what you don't want, it can't give you that Full answer. And the last is I asked for next steps. So this was super important, is that I made it clear that I wanted something that my client could actually execute. Not just ideas, but a plan. And that's what leaders want and that's what clients want. So my team had stopped at just like content ideas versus how do I get the action steps needed to bring these ideas to life? And it just, it provides a more holistic, comprehensive answer. It makes the language learning model think more.
[28:20]
B
Can I give an example? We work with a company that does concrete and you can really use it intelligently if you push the boundaries. So what I've done is put in the LinkedIn profile of the people who approve the concrete contracts in the big cities, right? And then I took the other concrete companies and their posts and put it in ChatGPT. And then I put in our client's strategy and what we thought our strengths and weaknesses were, and then asked ChatGPT, Analyze the competing strategies, analyze the profiles of the decision makers and come up with a probability of what will be the strongest themes to get contracts and what would be the weakest. And you just keep asking questions and the data you get is fantastic, as opposed to just say, give me a marketing strategy to do this.
[29:03]
A
And if that sounds overwhelming, you're using ChatGPT wrong. Like that's the level you need to be treating ChatGPT as if it's like a. You're like your chief of staff, like it's a real human. You're giving clear marching orders, objective direction, what you don't want, like just asking it a lazy question, you're going to get a lazy answer.
[29:23]
B
No, it's more effective than top performing humans.
[29:26]
A
It is.
[29:26]
B
You still need a couple. But if you ask it the right questions, it will actually do work so much faster.
[29:32]
A
And I've got actually the five prompt directions that get you CEO level answers. So I'm going to break these down. Number one is clarifying the real objective. What are we actually trying to do? Number two is provide the necessary context. The who, what, why, how. So give those interrogative live questions. So provide context. Three, say what's missing and what you don't want. Okay, so what not to do, where not to focus, what to ignore, what's missing from this for them to fill in. Number four, ask for strategy and actionable next steps. Not just ideas, but a plan. So how can you get to what you're achieving or suggesting to do? Because oftentimes ChatGPT will give you an answer. It reads well but it's actually not actionable or executable. So for example, we're doing a speaking engagement in Australia and I was trying to plan out kind of the trip for that and I asked if we can extend the trip basically here or there, where are some other places. And it gave me this fantastic trip. But then one of the places was a 12 hour drive to get there and then it was a three hour flight and they wanted me back the same day. And like, so sometimes without explaining, like, give me the plan. It will give you things that can read well if you glance it, but it's not actually possible, you know, the.
[31:01]
B
Picture I just had. If you want to visualize ChatGPT as some brilliant savant with, with inexhaustible research capabilities, but who sits there and kind of will almost smile at your questions? Like it's almost like talking to like an old oracle which will just literally answer your questions. Literally.
[31:20]
A
Yes.
[31:21]
B
Right. And kind of internally smile and it's hoping that you ask more questions, but it's not going to. It's starting to prompt a little bit at the end, but I think. Did you hit the fifth one?
[31:32]
A
No. So the fifth one is, is effectively ask for deliveral. It's exactly what you're saying. So what you're, what you're breaking down from that image is perfect because imagine your like setting the foundation, you're providing the plot and the meat. You're asking for kind of like the actionable steps and then you're going further with the deliverable. And that's what most people miss is that to go back to elementary school when like an essay is like a sandwich, you need to see how you're asking ChatGPT to be like a sandwich. Like you should be typing out a full blown paragraph because you're giving context, you're giving, explaining the who, what, where, why and how. You're giving the, the indicators of what you want and what you don't want.
[32:13]
B
That's why I like the app, you know, and Grok is getting good. Anything that you can actually dictate into because when you dictate you actually give yourself a little bit context. You give yourself free flow to get in this context that you would. Because we're taught to kind of use less words and it's. And then it will pick up on that. So try and use the audible dictation. The audible dictation. You'll get better answers. May I add potentially a sixth one that I don't think has been considered, but I think is the Most important.
[32:40]
A
Ok. Right.
[32:41]
B
Especially for business owners or people who are high up. I can't remember what the quote was. Right. It's what we don't know that will kill us. It's what we know to be true that isn't true that will kill us. I think it was Mark Twain or something like that.
[32:54]
A
It is Mark Twain.
[32:55]
B
Right. So ask ChatGPT at the end when you've done this, having considered everything we've done here, what is it that I don't know that could be a risk to the success of the project.
[33:05]
A
Like.
[33:06]
B
Like use that to try and access your own blind spots. Because blind spots can kill us and we can frame the questions in a way that ignore it. So getting that now is essentially similar. What I'll do is what we used to do in military planning and war gaming. I will say pretend you're my opposition and rip apart my plan for vulnerabilities at every step.
[33:25]
A
Yeah.
[33:25]
B
That type of stuff is the. Is the icing on the cake of these questions.
[33:29]
A
This is the quote. The humorous Mark Twain is often credited with a variation of this. It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
[33:39]
B
Just pulled that right out of my head.
[33:40]
A
Yeah, that's a. That is bang on. So Those are the six things that you need to know for constructing your ChatGPT prompt. Lastly, I don't know if we talked about on the podcast, I think we might have, but Claude is also such a fantastic addition to your creative writing. So ChatGPT, that is like. Think of ChatGPT as like your chief of staff. Like it's built into your business. Everything should go through ChatGPT. Claude is a fantastic creative writer. It lacks that uncanniness where you can't just quite put your finger on like how it's like chatgpt esque. It's a very good writer. The issue with Claude is that it has a usage limit that you can't buy out of. So it's one of those things where it doesn't make sense for you to be using Claude at the level you should be using ChatGPT. But it's a great. In addition to. Because it will really enhance your creative writing. So ChatGPT, the base Claude 2 Enhance.
[34:34]
B
Grok is the best I find for trends and media because it has.
[34:39]
A
It scans Twitter.
[34:40]
B
Yeah, it scans Twitter. So it's actually getting more data because everything about language learning models is getting new data. And so because it has that and Elon feeds Tesla visuals into his AI. So it's seeing the world through a million or a billion cameras. It changes the world. And Gemini Deep Research is very good on Google. If you use Gemini Deep Research, it provides exceptional results.
[35:07]
A
All right, so actually, funny enough, we can chat about this super quick. So I don't know if you've seen this, the new upgrade to OpenAI, the image generator. So effectively the breakdown is like using Claude for prompting and then using like from the prompting. So coming up with a creative brief and then using ChatGPT for the static generation is an absolute game changer. Like it's all of these ads were completely made with AI and it just shows you that we can now do vibe based marketing.
[35:38]
B
Well, what it tells you is that traditional agencies and establishments are going to become obsolete because they insist on doing things the way they were done. So that's better than most graphic designers. The most important thing is the strategic inputs. Yes, right. Yes, the labor part of it can be done, but agencies are still charging people a fortune to do things that can be done by tech today. Better. Yes, but they don't have the right inputs.
[36:02]
A
And so if anyone hasn't tried this yet, this is like a news breaking this week. The image generators are absolutely insane. Like way better than most agencies. So that is a huge breakthrough. And that ends our segment on GPTs. Next thing I want to talk about, to go back to our kind of deep philosophical intro was the book that we both finished, the Chop Wood Carry Water. And I just really love taking those breaks to go back to kind of those like books that make you think.
[36:37]
B
Deep in life as kind of a martial arts enthusiast. Like I love those, those kind of Buddhist samurai or whatever, like the philosophy of happiness and success. And everybody is always getting so complex, so complex. Right. But even in business, anybody who does the best at their products, they always go back to first principles and simplicity. You know, like the masters in martial arts go back and they're still trying to master the simplest steps. And so these books kind of bring us back from all of the distractions of the world to focus on what really will bring us some happiness and harmony.
[37:14]
A
Yeah, I wanted to both talk about two things, two standout moments that spoke to us. To me, the thing that really stood out was the concept of building your own house. So this book was by Joshua Metcalfe, if you haven't listened to it. And I'm not going to ruin the book because it's one of those books where there's just every chapter is filled with some kind of proverbial insight. So in the book the Master, he, the the sensei is explaining a story of this master home builder. And effectively the master home builder is about to retire and the company asks to build one more house and he's ready to get on with his life. He's seeing the things that are coming down the way, but he does his job and he finishes this last house. And at the end of the building of the house, the company was actually gifting him this house as his like passing present. And there was that instant pang of self frustration and disappointment because had he known it was going to be his house, he would have built it different or he would have just had a different approach.
[38:13]
B
I forget about his focus because he built other people's house beautifully. But on the last house, he didn't take it seriously.
[38:18]
A
And how that changed his perception on the joy he felt in the house and the experience he felt in the house. And it really, really sat with me because it's so easy to not be present in the tasks you're doing and to not have that focus and commitment that not only is it your house, but it could also be your last house. And I spoke to the team about this because I think it's a really strong message for your team in remembering that, you know, times are tough. We're in a weird spot right now in the economy. People are holding back, spending every single customer that walks in the door, like, you should treat this business like it's your house.
[39:02]
B
It's a beautiful point for team members. It's hard to get team members to care that much, but the meaning comes from caring. Yeah, right. It's not about just phoning it in so you can go do like you have to. You have to have meaning. What I loved about the book and a theme I've been focusing on is our society is addicted to easy right now. Right? It's just addicted to easy. Everybody wants a shortcut. Everybody wants to make it quickly. And this history doesn't lie. And the people who become great do the reps, they do the work. They're getting their fingernails dirty. They're up when others are sleeping. And we kid ourselves into thinking there's another way to be great. And what this book reminds us, especially in the samurai saying, look, chop wood and pack and carry water before you're going to learn how to shoot the arrows. It's just reminding people that there's other benefits that come from hard things. It's not just traceable. And the quote that Struck me in that book is greatness isn't reserved for the chosen few. Greatness is reserved for the few who choose to do hard things. Right. And so that's why I keep saying do hard things. Like, it just makes life better doing.
[40:11]
A
Hard things, but it's also doing the boring things.
[40:14]
B
Yeah.
[40:14]
A
You know, like the chopping wood and the carrying water. Like, he's not saying climb a mountain every day. You know, like, not that chopping wood and carrying. It's not hard, but it's the idea of that. Also, those boring, those monotonous things, they make you better at whatever you're doing. And I love what the book also says is like, stop comparing where you're at to whomever you're comparing yourself to. Whether it's competitors, whether it's somebody else on the Internet, you're building your own house. And all it's about is your own house and you putting your head down and doing the work to chopping wood and carrying water. It's going to make you better for wherever you're going because you're focused on your house.
[40:55]
B
And that's where people make mistakes too, is they want to. They want to take a shortcut to the house, or in our context, they want a shortcut to having the best social media accounts or the best businesses and all that. And you can't really take shortcuts. You have to get the right advice, strategy.
[41:09]
A
You gotta chop wood and carry water.
[41:10]
B
Chop wood and carry water, and then a tribe will follow you eventually.
[41:13]
A
You know what I also love, too, is he talks about in the book the, you know, the focus on how we're always looking at that as you keep leveling up the people that you continue to look up to, there's just, there's, there's, there's never the end for more. You know, like, whether it's more followers or more money or more trips or posting more, how they're showing up on the Internet and how happy they look and how glamorous their life looks and just realizing, like, when have you reached enough? When are you at the point where this is enough? And I don't think we talk about it enough in branding and in marketing and creating content. Like, when is it enough? What are we chasing?
[41:54]
B
People think there's a destination that they arrive to, and all of a sudden they're happy. Right. It's not the destination, it's the journey.
[42:01]
A
It's finding happiness.
[42:01]
B
So it's not enough. And then as you're on the journey, redefine what, what you want from happiness. Right. When you're young, it's I want a car. Like some superstar or something.
[42:11]
A
No. So you want a car period or you're never happy. Yeah. I want to show you my favorite Oscar Wilde quote. The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last. I love that quote because it's the best part of this journey is the suspense of what's coming. So find joy in this moment. Find joy in the struggle and trying to get a post that goes out. Find joy in figuring out your message and your brand and connecting with your customer. Find joy in posting the ninth video that got six views. Because it's going to work. It's just what makes the journey the best are those moments until you figured it out. Because that's what makes you a cooler, deeper person.
[42:52]
B
What I want to converse about with that quote is it's funny. You can get a quote at one age and it doesn't hit you. And then you can get a quote at another age, like after you've grown and it hits you. The best words, the best quotes are ones that have different, different, different meanings to you at different times.
[43:10]
A
And expand. Yeah.
[43:11]
B
That quote, when you think of it, the suspense is beautiful. I hope that it lasts.
[43:15]
A
It's terrible.
[43:15]
B
It's terrible. I hope that it lasts. That's somebody who knows there's an end, right? Not somebody. Right. Because those moments of suspense, they're the most alive you feel like I can, you know, it's for me sitting on a C130 Hercules before the first jump. Like the suspense was frickin terrible. Right. Like it was. But you know, you don't get that rush until after or waiting for a jury verdict. Right. When that jury walks in, it is scarier than most of the things I ever did in the military and the same in business. You're launching the product you want to see. Like we work for that moment where we drink deep of life. Right? So just it reminds everybody that the small things we're doing, the content, just enjoy those moments, drink deep of life. Because it's going to lead to a moment that gives you joy.
[44:04]
A
Seems a bit shallow to connect to this, but I feel like there is a larger point where I'm going, it was interesting. I was on shoot with Ethan the other day and Ethan Shaw is a fantastic photographer with a large following. And he does, you know, like he has leaned in. He's really leaned in and he really actually credits our tough advice to him as being the difference that really changed his path. But him and I were kind of laughing because he's really blown up. Like, I want to say, he's got like half a million followers now. Super talented young guy. What's actually crazy is that if you post every single day, like, if you just actually show up and, like, you are among such a small percentage of creators worldwide or people in your industry. Yeah, people in your industry, it's actually just bound to work. Like, it just the way that it accumulates and how it compounds because, like, really, it's like, for how much content that we've created and that, like, brand awareness, it's really actually so simple to make a name for yourself and different contexts.
[45:06]
B
If you're a business owner, a founder, if you post every day, you will be in the 1% or 5% in your industry. If you post once a day, you'll become better at posting. True. So you're not just in the elite now. You're becoming way better. Where corporations get it wrong is they post once a day, but they don't have a strategy, and it's garbage. And they're paying somebody to just chuck out garbage. But we're talking to those people who own their businesses, who care about their clients, their business. Like these guys and girls that we know who own businesses from 5 to 20 million dollars. They got there because they're exceptional, they worked hard, and if they could just kind of make a little pivot into building their personal brand, the world is their oyster. To get to 100 million.
[45:49]
A
And where this ties back to that Oscar Wilde quote is you get this momentum and this excitement of the suspense because it starts working and you don't know where it's going. And it's such a small world. The opportunities that are potential to you are truly endless. Because when you start creating content and your brand and your character starts emerging, you never know who it's gonna connect to and what doors it's gonna open. But most people fear that sense of suspense, and they just keep wanting more, and they don't realize that, like, that point's the best point. So there's the first path, like the first stage of our own proverbial Buddhist story is, like, the resistance to not doing it right. Like, always putting it off, not posting that piece of content, not investing in the brand. And then you get over that hump, and then you get, like, actually addicted because you start getting, like, the feedback. You start generating business, and then it becomes addictive. But then you get addicted to, like, the constant dopamine hits of seeing your feedback.
[46:42]
B
That's a big danger.
[46:43]
A
And like being, okay, how can I get more, where's more, where's more, where's more? And then that's where you kind of get to that point where it's like, when is it enough? And that's where listening to this chop wood, carry water. It was so important to me because I need to be reframed of. This is enough. I have enough. Now we're creating content to just keep helping people, but I don't.
[47:05]
B
Not chasing celebrity.
[47:06]
A
Yes. I just. This is enough.
[47:08]
B
Well, unhappiness comes from chasing celebrity or egoic things as opposed to chase impact, but not egoic validation.
[47:17]
A
Yeah.
[47:17]
B
So it's a good line.
[47:18]
A
I highly recommend that. And then now I'm listening to Pound the Stone, which is also by Joshua Methclf, and I'm really enjoying that too. So that is kind of. That is that section. Do you want to move into Hot or Not?
[47:29]
B
Let's do it.
[47:30]
A
Okay, so the Hot or Not segment, we've got a bunch of stuff to break down. So Ramoa launched a new campaign and it is a effectively kind of a vintage Pan Am esque luggage set, an archive piece reborn. So it's called the Ramoa Holiday Case. It's a celebration of bold archival design featuring bright primary colors and cutting edge materials. So effectively, it's just kind of bringing something back from their archive. And then they took kind of an approach of being like really kind of vintage images. Hot or not.
[48:06]
B
I think I haven't seen all of the products. I think it's hot in the perspective that 1950s and 60s design is coming back because it has vibe, because design has become so garbage, modern cement. Like, there's no art, there's no artisticness between it. So Ramowa is expensive and, you know, has plastic molding luggage. So to go back to a vibe of a better time, the Pan Am times, I think most people kind of yearn for that feeling of travel being special, of having things that people paid attention to in terms of service luggage experience. So I think it's a great trend. I'm just not sure that I love the color palette from there, but. So I'm kind of hot. But I think they're on the right trend. I think they could have just done a little bit better, you know, what was that other luggage we looked at that had the kind of leather around the steel?
[49:00]
A
Oh, that one I got Carl Frederick.
[49:03]
B
Yeah, like, I think that's got cool.
[49:05]
A
Carl Frederick I quite like because I, I wanted a Ramo, but I could not justify the price tag because we Travel so much, and our just. Our luggage gets so beaten up. So it's like this. I get this, like, frustration of, like, I almost don't want to use it. And it's. That's not proper. So actually, a little tip. If you guys like Carl Frederick, if you Google Carl Frederick Refurbished, they have a hidden page on their website that they don't publish where, like, people who return the luggage, you can buy it at, like, a pretty steep discount.
[49:33]
B
It's going to be sold out now because of how popular the podcast is. And this reminds of White Lotus last night, where I like that shirt that.
[49:40]
A
Whatever Brooke's brother Saxon was wearing, the blue that's kind of Louis Vuitton.
[49:44]
B
And so I'm like, I love that. And you're like, love it. Let's try and buy it.
[49:47]
A
I was like, pause it. We got to search it right now because it's going to be sold out if we don't. And it was already sold out.
[49:51]
B
So you're welcome. Edward Frederick or what?
[49:53]
A
No, Carl Frederick.
[49:54]
B
Carl Frederick.
[49:55]
A
I think. I think that you nailed it. I agree. I think it's hot in that it's. People are talking about the brand. I love that it's vintage. I love that it's different. I love that it's going back to its roots. I love that it's talking about. Old is cool. You know, like, old is an old. But I just. I think it's really cool. Like, if I saw the right person with it, I'd be like, you're cool. To me, it's not practical because I carry too much when I travel, so. But I love.
[50:19]
B
What's the most. What do you think is the most famous piece of luggage from cinema? People put it in the comments. Do you have. Do you have a piece of luggage from cinema that pops out to you?
[50:29]
A
I think it'd be something like that because.
[50:31]
B
From a movie, but I think it.
[50:32]
A
Is the briefcase, because they haven't really done too much of branded luggage in movies.
[50:37]
B
It's not a briefcase is dating, but every human should watch It's a Wonderful Life, one of the best movies ever made. And if you look at when it was made right after World War II, the social zeitgeist is huge. But the suitcase from It's a Wonderful Life that the main character had because he always wanted to travel and he had it ready and it. He just never got to take it and travel. Like, it would almost be nice to buy the rights to kind of that It's a Wonderful Life suitcase look.
[51:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[51:05]
B
And then lay it out there.
[51:06]
A
That's very true. Very cool. Love that. All right, I got the next one. This is Puma. So the whole idea is that I got high and it's a Puma commercial. And it's basically the idea that she got high running, and that is the concept. So that it's kind of playing on smoking weed, but it's the high because she went running hot or not.
[51:34]
B
Amazing song. I have to admit that during my years of consuming cannabis for therapeutic purposes, I always love that song. I Got High made me laugh, especially when I was high. Not that I'm advocating that as a former veteran and prosecutor, but. So I love that vibe. Right. I thought it was going to be about a high jumper or something. Not I get high from running, but it's kind of a stretch. I think it can work, but it didn't really resonate with me as much as I think they were trying to. So I kind of say not. Even though I admire that they're stretching some boundaries.
[52:10]
A
To me, it's a total knot. I think that I'm shocked that it got. I'm shocked that it got approved. And I kudo them for getting approved.
[52:18]
B
That's what I'm saying.
[52:18]
A
But it's such a blase ad. Like, the woman is, like rubbing her ankle like she wasn't going to go running because it's sore. But then she got high and she's like it. And then I had a girl, you're right.
[52:32]
B
It's a little too young and thinking that they're being dangerous, but without understanding what the strategic goals are.
[52:38]
A
But it's like, it's just not Puma. Like, if you're going to do that, like, I just. I think there's a way to do it. Funny is that nothing about the ad was funny to make it to play. It's not like the, you know, the pregs for cats.
[52:48]
B
Yeah, that's a great point.
[52:49]
A
Right?
[52:49]
B
Because Puma. But even its brand and logo is a fun sleek like the Puma. It does not get high with cannabis. You know what I mean? Like, it's a weird. It's kind of off brand, but trying to make a point.
[53:01]
A
It's just. It's not good, but it's interesting. Actually, one of our clients, Kyle, he texted me when we had posted on my story and they had. He said, I expected it to be higher. Like, taking me higher, higher. Like, that would have been a better song because it would have, like, alluded to it. Then doing like that song does not.
[53:23]
B
Appeal to anybody who does fitness generally. Maybe a couple of athletes who are in pain who have already made it.
[53:29]
A
But it's a no.
[53:31]
B
But the whole song is like, I was going to go work out, but then I got high. Right? Yes, yes, I understand the kind of.
[53:39]
A
Play, but I'm going to pull up this one. This was actually interesting. So this is by Hellman's Ketchup, and it's called ketchup Currency. And effectively they've created this microsite where consumers can use the cameras on their mobile devices to scan their spare ketchup packets to get a dollar or $2 off their mayonnaise because they found more people like mayonnaise now with their fries than ketchup. So it's kind of a play of, like, all these, like, random packets you have in your house to be a reason to buy more mayo. And the ad is, like, in mayo.
[54:13]
B
I would almost guarantee there's an military person behind that ad. That type of thinking is like guerrilla fighting. Great thinking.
[54:21]
A
It was really good. To me, this is a hot.
[54:23]
B
And you can get free mayonnaise if you.
[54:25]
A
You get a dollar to $2 off.
[54:27]
B
So if you have, like, people are going to be going and stealing ketchup packages. So they can.
[54:31]
A
No, but they. They want that. You know, like, Hellman's isn't tight on. Isn't tight on dollars. Like, that makes it like a guerrilla campaign. It's kind of like, remember back in the day, like, those, like, coupon shows where, like, there's these people that, like, basically the way that the math works is that if they get enough coupons, they actually get, like, free things. And there was, like, always the suspense at the end if, like, it's a part of their strategy. So.
[54:54]
B
No, but it's a good way to message something that's interesting and it has a reward. And today's world requires an element of gamification to get engagement on many levels. Because people want to have some sort of gamification.
[55:06]
A
Yes. So the next one is by Coors Light.
[55:09]
B
That was hot.
[55:10]
A
Yeah, very hot. Coors Light taps AI into baseball fans and invites consumers who are sitting in obstructed view seats to visit a microsite and upload a photo of their spot. And basically, the more obstructed your view, the more brew you get. So you download this app and you use AI. So if you're, like, behind one of those big poles, you get, like, basically more free beer. So the worse your seat, the more that the brand is going to reward you to make it a positive experience.
[55:37]
B
Yeah, Interesting. Like that will produce some social media posts, Right? Because what it does is people are posting it. I imagine they have to post it in order to get the free beer. But it's a great way to get recognition and to reward humans. Love. When you're rewarding people who care. Right. And that's where that brand is being intelligent. Because the lifers who are up in the top row in the nosebleeds or who are there, they're actually the people that the players should be playing for, not the corporate people down below who don't even watch the game. Like when we go to a Leafs game, like, half of the place isn't even watching hockey. They're just there for social status signaling. But that speaks to the customer who buys their product. Right? That's the person who buys a Coors Light. So it's intelligent. Bud Light should take a lesson from whoever's doing that. Good job. Hot.
[56:29]
A
The reason why I really liked it is both of these. This one, more than the last, are actually quite inexpensive for the impact that it drives. Because.
[56:39]
B
And it gets your audience to participate and be engaged.
[56:41]
A
Like, think of how, like, I would just buy Hellman's. Like, I'm not going to go home and scan my ketchup packs, but I'm going to think of Hellman's and I'm going to reward Hellman's by a purchase.
[56:51]
B
Because every time I see a ketchup pack.
[56:53]
A
Yes. I'm going to think about. I'm going to talk about them. Same with.
[56:56]
B
No, that's why it's guerrilla strategy. If you're exposed to that ad properly, like, if they actually get it out there. Every time you see a ketchup pad pack, you think of the other product, the competition. It's. It's brilliant. That's why I said I thought it was a military guy or girl. Because there's a brilliant guerrilla strategy behind that.
[57:12]
A
Yeah, I love it.
[57:12]
B
And let's reach out to them and see if.
[57:14]
A
Think about how many. Few people actually have obstructed views at the baseball game. You know, like, but.
[57:19]
B
But it can grow because it could be somebody who's standing up all the time. It could be those obnoxious.
[57:23]
A
But that's my point is that from a percentage of how intelligent this is, stadiums aren't designed to give a large majority obstructed views. But you're more likely to even buy the brand because you're celebrating. And this is what.
[57:35]
B
It's relatable.
[57:36]
A
It's Relatable. But what I find most brands miss at all stages is the potential of. They'll be like, oh, well, what if half the stand is obstructive? Like, and we have to. We're giving away half the stands of free beer. I'm like, that's the best thing that could happen.
[57:51]
B
Because isn't that related to that pizza place that gave a free slice of. Of pizza if they got some home run in some inning?
[57:58]
A
Yeah, well, even the Raptors do too. It's like you get free. Well, they've now all done it. So the original one was if they get over 100 points, you got a free slice of pizza at any pizza pizza.
[58:10]
B
Everybody in the stadium.
[58:11]
A
Everybody in the stadium. And it was so funny because my mom would go quite a bit to the Raptors games and she would come home and like my brother would, we'd never get one slice. You know, we'd always get more than that. And it but it even. It always reminded me of pizza pizza because there was like a tide shared moment and a memory with it. And now they do that with like Wendy's. I think you get free fries. And then like they've now all done it with all the different sports. But that was the original one.
[58:37]
B
The lesson learned is there was some courage in that decision maker because a bunch of bean counters would tell you, no, we're going to lose. You know what I mean? But the ROI was down the road. It was a brilliant strategy.
[58:47]
A
As an aside, I learned this actually a few years ago working with the person that developed the Cineplex program. So like the points you get at movie theaters to get free movies and how complicated they have to like bring in like high level actuarials to develop loyalty programs because you need to factor in for like, for like big ones, like shoppers and stuff. Because you have to factor in if everybody comes in and uses their points, like what the dollar value is, because there has to be kind of that potential. So if everybody comes in and cashes out their dollars for inventory, they need to have that on hand.
[59:23]
B
I should put in the reserve. I should put in the notes. There's some very fascinating articles and studies on that in that the airlines, like, it's actually become a currency that they trade. And the airlines make most of their profit off of the points.
[59:36]
A
Yeah.
[59:36]
B
So they sell their points. So it's all. And that's why if you're always confused about point system, it's because they're using actuaries and it's become a currency that they trade on a market nobody sees.
[59:45]
A
Yes.
[59:46]
B
It's actually a big scam.
[59:47]
A
It's a huge thing. Well, even to. I realize this with shoppers who know, like, the optimum points that owns, like, like Esso and blah, blah, all these things that own them. I was, like, so addicted to the optimum points. And then I realized shoppers is, like 30% more money than everywhere else.
[60:01]
B
I'm like, you realize you're paying 30% more for everything so that you can collect points that are maybe worth 3% of the price it was.
[60:08]
A
I can't unsee it now, so I hope we impart some wisdom. Okay, back to hot or not. So let's talk about the AirPods for noise cancellation. This is a short film by Spike Jonze, and it's the actor from Narcos.
[60:26]
B
And The failed Gladiator 2, sadly. But he's got a good brand. I like the guy, but that movie sucked.
[60:33]
A
Oh, no. So I guess he, like, leaves someone. Anyways, it's a short film. It's worth you watching if you did. If you haven't, it's five minutes and 36 seconds. And it's actually a short film put on by Apple.
[60:44]
B
Hot or not, Philip, Everybody should watch it. I think it's a departure from their stupid newtopia. They're trying to tell a story. It's beautifully executed, and when you have a lot of money, you can have essentially, I don't even know how many millions this cost. I think it's hot in the visuals. I think it's hot in that it's trying to tell a story that's relatable to its audience. I think it creeps into naught because it allowed some creatives to go too far in terms of. This is what happens when you allow creatives like the old days. Rory would talk about it. You would have the most beautiful ad in a magazine, but nobody knew what it was for, right? And it just became. The art became higher than the message. So this short film, I think, is a little too long because it doesn't really have a plot in the end, and it wallows in beautiful visuals for too long rather than kind of moving from where the noise cancellation would affect their customer's life in a more practical level. So I'm saying not on that level because it's not practical enough, but artistic. It's one of their better ads.
[61:50]
A
To me, it's complicated to analyze because my. Okay, so on one hand, I watched it till the end. In that way, I got, you know, that gets a Check to the brand. Because I invested five minutes and 36 seconds on effectively waiting for, like, the kind of the pin to drop. I was really impressed by his ability to dance. I actually was like, like, let's go. I'm like, you're fantastic. And you can tell that he wasn't like a dancer, but he worked very hard for this short film, so I loved that. It also. I kind of felt to be completely raw and real. I was like, I feel like this also tells you that if anyone works hard enough, they can dance well. Because I was like, this is like, wicked how well he's dancing. But I agree with you. And I think where my brain goes is, you know, what was the point of this? Because really, Apple AirPods, they have the majority market share, like, who's really their top competitor. And you kind of realize, like, people from all socioeconomic classes because it's priced at a point where I'm not saying it's cheap, but it's definitely not expensive. You know, like $150 for a pair of earphones. Like, the average person can at least justify splurging on that. And that's where I think is really.
[63:03]
B
Interesting is because 10 years ago, 20 years ago, Bose owned this market.
[63:07]
A
Yeah.
[63:07]
B
But back it was 500 bucks. Back then it was really on its own. Like, you really had to be an audiophile, and so we didn't. What I think they're doing nicely is transferring that noise cancellation into an ability to enjoy life more. You know what I mean? Because it gets rid of the noise that can make us feel stressed.
[63:28]
A
I think this is a move for Apple to do, like, you know how before it was like, product placement in movies? It's like, for brands to do movies for their product, you know, like, because it's. Who is the customer? Like, who is this for? Like, what's really interesting to me is, like, every once in a while when I'm like, with my mom because she watches regular tv, crazy concept. I find it really fascinating for how brands get to TV commercials. And like, Apple watches have and like Fitbits have. And that's when I find it. There's like that really interesting kind of tipping point where the masses are now wearing these Apple watches and Fitbits. Like, it's no longer kind of a bit of a niche and AirPods are kind of the same. So who is this? Because it's not really an ad. It's an ad, but it's not. It's not speaking to the people who don't know about this. Product.
[64:19]
B
I think it's 100% an ad. But I think what it's speaking to, from my perspective, is it's trying to redefine the category of the noise cancellation earbuds so that it can get a higher price point. Because when I look at it, what it's showing is that this doesn't just cancel noise. It makes your life better. Because it's got very dreariness at the beginning. You put the noise canceling on, and all of a sudden it's full of color, it's full of joy, and a lot of people are carrying around stuff and aren't happy. And so it's trying to say, like, this just isn't a headphone that cancels noise. This is a pathway to being happier, you'd think.
[64:56]
A
But then he's still wearing the headphones, and he's still going through life with his head down while wearing them. And he almost is looking at a different version of himself with the headphones. So I don't think the headphones are the difference.
[65:10]
B
Well, it's saying that it's aspirational when you have this, you can change your life. I think what you're saying.
[65:14]
A
But he had them.
[65:15]
B
Yeah, but he wasn't using them well. Or he wasn't. That's where the ad kind of fails.
[65:20]
A
Yeah.
[65:20]
B
Because what I would do is I would have done this ad. Being in a noisy coffee shop, putting it on, and then being in a Zen garden or being on a subway and hearing a couple argue in a horrible way, putting them on and finding peace. Like showing where your users can make their life better if they just have this product.
[65:37]
A
To me, my core takeaway is I want to give it a hot. Because I watched it and it was different and I appreciated the color and, like, what they did, but it's not in the sense that it comes across to me as like, a brand with too much money. That's like doing things that's lacking impact because it. I don't. I don't feel more connected to the brand. I don't feel more connected to the product. I don't feel like it's doing artistic things for the sake of furthering the creative community. And I just. I kind of feel like they're paying for this top actor. And I'm waiting for the pin to drop, and it's not quite coming.
[66:13]
B
Good insight. The other thing I think about is, like, noise canceling. It's also kind of isolating. Right. Cause, like, when you have it on, you can't hear people. It Kind of takes you away from humans. But it's like saying when you put it on in this video, all of a sudden humans are dancing around you, but when you put it on, you're actually isolating yourself from hearing people.
[66:31]
A
Well, it's funny, the experience that I actually got from it before it turned so bright was I felt like a part of me is not living my life. Cause I felt more connected to the dark one, where I'm like, I feel like, yes, my head's down, people are avoiding me. I'm putting my headphones in. And I was even interestingly thinking about the other day, I had happened to not have my headphones in. And I realized a fork dropped into the carburetor. And I'm like, those are the things that I can miss when I'm constantly walking around with my noise act like my noise canceling. Because if I was looking here and it dropped there, I'm like, these are the moments that. So I actually didn't find that I felt coming out of this how powerful they are, because I really do love the app. I've got literally four pairs of them. But I felt more connected, even though I feel more aligned with a positive person because I'm happy and life is colorful for me. I'm like, to your point, your approach to it would have been a better click and reinforcing of I access my Zen garden when I have them in the coffee shop, versus I'm closing myself off. And I can't have random impromptu conferences.
[67:35]
B
Conversations, because, like, going for a walk with noise cancellation headphones in the forest is very stupid. Right? Like, you should hear the forest. You need to be bathed in the sound and smell and texture of the forest. And I think they're trying to. I think they're trying to cut off maybe what they see as a decline. Because there's also the talk about something so small, so close to your brain that is so powerful. You know, I think there's like, safety concerns coming. You're seeing more people wearing wired headphones these days. I think you might. They may have looked at it and said, look, we're susceptible to wired headphones coming in that change the dynamic. So that might be it as well.
[68:11]
A
Yeah. Complicated one. I'd love to hear your guys feedback on that. Hot or not.
[68:15]
B
Great dancing Dances with the Stars. I bet you. I think it was on Dances with the Stars. Actually.
[68:20]
A
He must have, because he was good. Like, it was really good. Okay, last. So I've got two more here, actually. I got three. I got four. I'll be really quick. Really quick. Rapid fire. Ikea and Severance did a collaboration for work that is mysterious and important. Acoustic screen for desk, $200 hot look.
[68:40]
B
That's a collaboration that's risky, but it's amazing that Severance is intellectual. It's well done. People love it, it's relating to them. And so it's relatable to the people who probably buy Ikea for their apartments in town, like, you know what I mean? In towns. And I think most people, because Severance is about the loneliness of the person working in a place by themselves, walking through it. And those people are generally Ikea's customers. Right. You put your furnishing a one or a two bedroom in an urban area. So I think that collaboration is amazing as long as they manage it not to lean into the negative aspects of the corporate world that Severance is talking to, which is where the danger is, because they're essentially showing office furniture that replicates that kind of suffocating environment that he's living in.
[69:23]
A
I wanted to go back actually a few weeks ago when I said that the Burberry bringing on that the Amy from White Lotus was a nod. And I actually wanted to kind of to take that back because it's been really cool showing up every Sunday to see that episode go live. Like, I really haven't done that in a long time. And it's interesting at the like with the pace of social media to be able for these brands to tap into a relevant moment. And I want to applaud brands for being able to move fast because so much of our criticism has been that they move too slowly. And I do like this, like, relevance tapping because it really gives these brands personality, which is what we're advocating for. So it was a risk. Well done. And I want to reward them.
[70:06]
B
I think it's a hot, yeah, dangerous ground, but at least they're doing something interesting. They'll get purchases from it.
[70:12]
A
Yeah, I think it's super smart. Well, but I think that's also the reason why I'm happy about it, is it's not dangerous ground because everybody watching the show knows it's a show. And that level of thinking is what's. Was what's held brands back for a long time. And they need to lean more into. We understand where there's creative freedom. Right. Like ikea. Tapping into that is making it more relevant because you're tuning in every Sunday to see the episode drop. You're not, you're not thinking. Same with the four seasons and White Lotus like we, the HR departments and the legal departments continue to say no.
[70:48]
B
I wouldn't be surprised that I didn't research this because you always surprised me with these. But I bet you IKEA is actually trying to furnish severance. Right. The same reason why Four Seasons wants to be the site of White Lotus. Because there's now nuance to association.
[71:02]
A
Yes. And no one thinks that by furnishing your office your severance, it just, it makes you more relevant, it gives range to the brand.
[71:10]
B
Because the design of Severance looks good. Like the furniture looks. Looks functional. Like everything is functional. So it's an interesting dynamic.
[71:17]
A
This is actually really interesting too. It's also Severance. So Apple is continuing its understated advertising spree on its hit Apple TV show called Severance. The Lumon Terminal Pro is a prop from the show and it's now listed on the Apple store alongside Max.
[71:31]
B
That is something that's kind of interesting.
[71:33]
A
Yeah. So it kind of makes you want to buy it. Yeah. If you've been, if you've been basically it's like attention severance fan. You've been dying to have your own in mini experience. Apple has a surprise for you. So they're actually selling it on the website.
[71:45]
B
I'm telling you it's a new like five years from now this is how products are going to be sold like on entertain, like just like we talk content, entertaining content, showcasing things like that's going to be how you generate sales.
[71:56]
A
This is an absolute hot for me.
[71:58]
B
Yeah.
[71:58]
A
So okay, this is last two. They're very fast. So GymNation unveils the world's first in Gym Hotel. So effectively it's like hotel rooms within a gym and the first was in the is in the Middle east and it is a really interesting collaboration. Hot or not.
[72:21]
B
What do you mean the hotel rooms in a gym like are people working out while you're in there? Kind of seems creepy but it looks like a full gym. Like it's not just that it has a chin up bar in your hotel room.
[72:30]
A
So the GymNation Hotel is right on site. Is right on site offering the ideal place to relax between sets or rest after a late night session. No need to head home for recovering any directly bookable through the gym. This isn't your typical hotel. It's a premium recovery hub specifically designed for fitness enthusiasts who are always ready to move. Picture dumbbell shaped towels to elevate your gym vibes and a press for protein button to have fresh protein shake delivered straight to your bed. Short on time. Switch on the TV for a quick gym flicks session while stretching or foam rolling. The GymNation Hotel isn't about snoozing. It's about fueling and resetting so you can stay on top of your fitness goals.
[73:06]
B
Is it an actual gym first or is it just a hotel chain that's this, like I'm all for increasing revenue funnels. So like if you're closed from nine to eight and you want to use your spot and rent it, like maybe you can rent out your coffee shops. You know what I mean? Everything can just be a hotel room. But I just, I think it's got a lot of issues.
[73:26]
A
So I was in Dubai.
[73:27]
B
Yeah, that. So Dubai. I've told this to people. When you have too much money, you see a lot of stupidity. Right? Great design has to have restrictions to force innovation. When you have too much money, you never get good design. You can get copying, you can get opulence, you can get beautiful hotel lobbies. But if the budget is unlimited, you don't get good design. And to me, this is a big nod for me.
[73:48]
A
It's interesting because I think it's fake. Like there's no real photos of what the hotel room would look like and it makes no sense to be sleeping in like the middle of the gym floor.
[73:58]
B
No, it's not enough.
[73:58]
A
So I think it's fake. I think it was designed to get pr.
[74:03]
B
But for who?
[74:05]
A
For the brand.
[74:06]
B
If gymnasium actually is gyms.
[74:08]
A
Yeah, it's a chain of gyms. The people's gym. Best gym in looks like Dubai. Pay monthly, open 24 7. So I think this was just like a PR move for people to be like, this is.
[74:17]
B
I bet you it's not true.
[74:18]
A
Yeah, I believe it's fake.
[74:21]
B
Try and book.
[74:21]
A
It doesn't make. There is no booking. Yeah, so it's fake, but so it's a parody.
[74:26]
B
Parodies can work. I don't know if it's will result in more sales or a better brand.
[74:31]
A
But yeah, I want to, I want to give it though a hot because I know.
[74:36]
B
Blown away.
[74:37]
A
I know.
[74:37]
B
No way.
[74:38]
A
I want to give it a hot because I found when I was doing like the research for this week and I was looking at the swipe throughs, it was one of the things that was the most shocking that stood out to me. And if it is fake, it doesn't cost a lot of money for the, for a brand to do something like that.
[74:53]
B
But we do a lot of, we've done a lot of. Of fitness facility work. If I'm like in a town looking for a high end gym, that doesn't, that doesn't make me want.
[75:00]
A
But it's not a high. It's kind of an elevated good life. Like it's a 247 gym. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a drop in gym concept.
[75:08]
B
Okay.
[75:08]
A
It's hard for brands like that to have breakout moments, but I don't think.
[75:13]
B
It translates into revenue or brand elevation.
[75:16]
A
I think it does because I think people that are in that market, they're now talking about that gym. They're more likely if they're deciding to sign up for a membership, go to one that's doing something viral. Like it's, it's the simplicity sometimes of virality when you're a gym chain. Right. Like if they have a hundred of them in Dubai and they're all over the place and this is like breaking news on the Internet, it's going to result in a lift because it's awareness.
[75:39]
B
Agree to disagree.
[75:40]
A
Yeah, let us know guys, what you think. All right, last one. Okay, so Doc Martens did a collab with Brat dolls. So there's like now a full line of Brat Doc Martens on the Doc Marten website. And they have a, they had a really co breakout video of like Bratz wearing Doc Martens and we had a bunch of like K pop stars wearing them. And this was like a big collab this week. So hot or not, I am a.
[76:06]
B
Big fan of the Doc Martin brand. When I was young, it was cool. Their product has a really cool story and I always found their shoes very comfortable and it was kind of the first dress shoes I had when I was in university. Like that kind of looked like a dress shoe, but it was casual. But then it had that, that soul that was so cool. I always liked the brand. I didn't know where it went for probably a couple decades. So I like the idea because the products are generally good. What I'm concerned about is they have too many SKUs or trying to please too many people. But I do see this appealing to young people. There is something about the Doc Martin story that appeals to people and Bratz is probably a good way to get some people interested in it who are younger.
[76:46]
A
Well, it's interesting on the Bratz front though is like I don't even know if Bratz are relevant to younger kids anymore.
[76:52]
B
No, yeah, they're right. They're in their 20s because Bratz was.
[76:54]
A
When I was young. And the woman who runs Bratz also runs a really high end fashion brand. Called Cult Gaia because it was her father that I guess started Bratz. So she now runs it. So it having a fashion collab makes sense for kind of where the brand is going. I think on the face it's hot because basically the way Bratz worked is like they always had these like big boots or big shoes because it was like clicking. So I think it's a really smart move for the understanding of the brand. What sucks for me is I find the designs like, weirdly for like kind of a northwest, like a 12 to 14 year old, which I just, I don't know if the mom that has a 12 to 14 year old had Bratz or if the 12 to 14 year old is reaching the Doc Martin message. Like, they're not particularly like, like why they've got like here, I'll show you. Like, who's that?
[77:46]
B
What's that?
[77:46]
A
Brand new John Fluvog.
[77:48]
B
Fluvag, right. It's like kind of in that flu.
[77:50]
A
But like, look at that purse. Like it's a little heart shaped. They put like this, like, who's wearing this pink?
[77:55]
B
I wonder if they got bought Doc Martens I should check out. Because whenever you see the introduction of tons of new skus. Right? Like, rather than keeping your classic pieces because they look like they're going too.
[78:06]
A
Far to me, it just, I don't know who the customer is for this. Like, I think it's really cool and I would have bought if they had done the collab right. Like maybe the stitching was purple instead or like it was more subtle. Like more for, let's say, festival season. But this just kind of seems like, you know what, maybe it's for the Korean or Asian audience. Like, this does kind of feel k.
[78:28]
B
Poppy because remember, they love tiny like miniature croissants, miniature everything. Like I can imagine on a Brat being able to take off a. A Doc Martens shoe and have like the real tiny Doc Martens. Like that would be cool.
[78:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe that's the angle. A's are going for like a Korean.
[78:43]
B
Asian audience.
[78:44]
A
An Asian audience. Because that's to me, I don't understand who the customer is, but. But overall a hot.
[78:49]
B
Good for them.
[78:50]
A
Cool.
[78:50]
B
Doing something interesting.
[78:52]
A
Well, that wraps up this week's episode of Art of the Brand. If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it. Yes, because shares matter more than follows. Obviously we'd love a follow, but if you're going to do one thing for us, share it. And second, if you haven't checked it out yet, the social Media Masterclass is now available. We poured our heart and soul into.
[79:11]
B
This and we reward people to get to the end. So. So now if you go into the bio, you can click and get a discount on the course for a listen to the end.
[79:18]
A
And if you can't afford it, send us a message because we want to help all business owners. Thanks for stopping in for this week's episode out of the Brand.