Loading summary
Transcript50 lines
- [00:00]
A
They're shooting themselves in the foot. The person that is creating interest, driving awareness, creating ticket sales is the first person that they're tearing down.
- [00:14]
B
What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand.
- [00:24]
A
We have to talk about the WNBA and how it's losing its brand.
- [00:29]
C
All right. Alongside the rest of society losing its mind. Let's do it.
- [00:33]
A
To me, it's a topic that we resisted because I was trying to find what business or brand owners could learn from this. And it's getting to the point where we have to discuss it from a branding perspective because it's hurting female sports.
- [00:51]
C
Well, it's just a textbook example of how the basics of business matter and can't be clouded by, you know, emotions. Right. And it gets in the way of big companies making money and you can see it leaking out of everything in the WNBA right now.
- [01:07]
A
It's a mess. Like there, there's an article that just came out saying that Caitlin Clark is the ninth best player in the league. By, by what standard? She, this is literally a perfect case of the wnba. Shouldn't, should, should have embraced this as tides lift all boats. And she could have been a Michael Jordan story for the wnba. Like the NBA where they were able to attract a larger audience and have a cultural moment for an absolute opportunity for the first time in female basketball that has increased ticket sales, drive to awareness and has had buzz talking about it and they're tearing her down.
- [01:45]
C
They're just getting in the way of their own success. And I'm not scared to say it, I think it's race based. I think because it's a white player, there is a large segment of the WNBA that doesn't want the top player to be white because the sport is seen to be black. And people seem to be scared to say that, but that, that racism is stopping from raising all boats. As you say, by making the sport more profitable, they're essentially killing a brand power that could have lifted the sport so everybody makes more, more money and they're trying to minimize it and it's short term thinking that's going to kill long term game gain of the sport.
- [02:22]
A
Well, especially since the WNBA is now allowing the players to be coming out in these T shirts claiming like pay us what we're owed. And it, it becomes, when you allow a, a complicated political narrative to enter into something that's supposed to be attractive for the masses, you allow more people to not want to Touch it than wanting to be involved.
- [02:44]
C
And sorry, it just dawned on me. We can't shy away from it because it happens in organizations. Stupid thinking is contagious. And if you come out and say, pay us what you owe us, but your league is losing $40 million a year and it's completely subsidized by the NBA, that doesn't make sense. You can't say pay us what you owe us based on you don't get paid based on what you think you deserve. You get paid based on what you earn. And so you have T shirts that say pay us what you owe us. Makes no sense. Just at a basic principle of basic.
- [03:19]
A
Ticket sales based on basic demand based on what. And. But in addition to that, where they're shooting themselves in the foot is that they are the person that is creating interest, driving awareness, creating ticket sales is the first person that they're tearing down.
- [03:43]
C
No, I know, and that's what I'm saying, that stupid thinking is contagious. You say, pass what you owe us, but the one person who could help you get paid more, you're tearing down. So it's, it's identity politics, you know, taking precedence over business principles. It doesn't make sense like make your product better, lift up your superstars so that you can get more revenue, and then pay people what you can afford to pay them. But don't wish that you get more or think you're owed more just because you identify with one segment of society. It's nonsense.
- [04:14]
A
I wish these female sports organizations could rally together and hire professional messaging and positioning strategy because I would love to support female sports. I think that there's a lot of intangible good that can come from young women seeing women in sports. And there could be a fantastic narrative. And I think that there is a lot of good things that could come from this. But there is such an anger and an ugliness focused around a me ness that they're looking to achieve in this. And it makes people not want to touch it. And it becomes. It hurts the future of female sports more than it helps. Because the way that it's being presented is. It's just they're allowing themselves to crash and burn so that they can say, look, you had an opportunity and look what you did with it. And it's not fair.
- [05:06]
C
It's hard to express wokeness. It gets in the way. The NBA has gone woke and it's seeing its numbers down. And it's not because the.
- [05:15]
A
The worst of all time, like it's never had the NBA's have never had record lower viewership.
- [05:20]
C
Right. And I understand that Wokeness had good intentions and there's a lot of people who can mean well, but you can't get away from the. The fundamentals of business is focus on the game, focus on the entertainment. When, when you be. When product to get infected with politicization, it takes away from it and there might be a short term bump. It's happened in the NBA and in the wnba. Everybody should be singing the praises of this Caitlyn girl and it would lift people up. Like not don't foul her all the time, but have people build rivalries. Like have some other athletes fight to be better with her. But there's a, there's a mean girl attack going on against her that's making the sport look shittier than it is. And it's dominant. By way of comparison, it's not completely relevant, but when Tiger woods came in to golf originally, he encountered some prejudice. Like people didn't really want him to come into the clubhouses at the beginning. But what was spectacular about his response in a way is that if he wasn't allowed to do something, he goes, that's fine, where's the T deck and what's the course record? And he just beat it. But then the sport community got behind him and he changed the nature of spectator golf. And they have a similar opportunity here with another skill set, a superstar who may not be the predominant race in the league, but embrace the difference. Like use it for the sport and for everybody else. It's really dumb how they're dealing with this.
- [06:48]
A
It makes no sense to me why someone who's objectively the best you would tear down because it doesn't suit your narrative for who you want to see be good in the league. And it, it where it hurts, where it hurts the league is that female basketball. Just like, it's so bad to say, but like, it's not entertaining to watch. Like without, like, without players like Caitlin Clark, like, they're raising the standard, they're raising the bar. Like it's. It. Why are you like, she sells out stands. People want to see the swagger of Caitlin Clark.
- [07:25]
C
Well, it just, yeah. And so you don't want to kill it.
- [07:29]
A
Like, it doesn't make sense. It's like, it's like removing Connor McDavid from the NHL because he's just so good. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
- [07:37]
C
I, you know, it's a contentious issue. It needs to be spoken about because in the business of founders. You don't want to, you don't want to allow stupid thinking to infect your strategy, right? Or you don't want to allow identity politics issues to affect your strategy. What is your product? How do you maximize your investment on your product and, and, and reinforce success? You know, but this is just this pay us what we owe. It's just become a vehicle for this type of politics that's ruining the product. And the product had a point where it could move into a different level and they may be sacrificing that opportunity because of what I think is, is ill thought out politics.
- [08:21]
A
It's complicated because there is a part of me that from a, from a, a non emotional business perspective asks the question of if female sports aren't as entertaining, right? If there is. If the barometer, like to use the word good is like is is emotionally charged and it's controversial to say. But if like sports at his bets is played by the most athletic species, which tends to be like for something like basketball, for something like football, for something like hockey, like if it's not as fast, not as strong, not as powerful for women to play it, the question becomes the supply and demand. Like if there is no demand for it, like how long do you keep it going and who needs to fund it and to what point do you allow it to ride out? But then the second question is I, as a strong female who doesn't subscribe to feminism for the sake of like, just because you're a woman, therefore I must support it. But from the sake of I want for my future daughter to have options and not to be limited because she is a girl. But so then my brain goes, well then I want more people like Caitlin Clark because that actually shows me that there is demand and there is proof that female athletes can drive demand and sustainable ticket sales. Like I don't think for the next 50 years we just want male leagues like acting like a charity to female sports and like funding it. And the, the stands are empty so that 17 people can say they're a pro something player, but there's no money there. Like it's a complicated. It's. It's complicated.
- [09:53]
C
Camille, Beautifully said. Bring on the haters. Because when you speak sincerely and logically, people will come and attack you for not just agreeing with them. You know, one of the things in basketball, one of the reasons why the NBA is suffering is they figured out that the three point shot system makes you win games. So it's taken away the, the slam dunks, right, which used to Be the Michael Jordan thing. So the NBA is less. They have to realize that the NBA is less entertaining because of that strategy. But in, in WNBA games, do you see a lot of slam dunks?
- [10:27]
A
No, I like that number one player who's like launching the me bounds. She's like famous because like she shoots to get a rebound because, like she can't get the shot. So she's kept collecting her own shot and then she's now. Which is a brilliant brand.
- [10:40]
C
I love that brand.
- [10:41]
A
The mebound, it's. She's throwing it so she can get it back to herself so she can get another shot. She's got a higher likely percentage if she gets six shots, that two are gonna go in. But that's not sport.
- [10:54]
C
Like, that's not winning. Like, you win however you can win. But there's elements of sport. Some sports are more problematic. That's not.
- [11:01]
A
Well, that's not the sport that you go to watch. Like, you go to watch Connor McDavid dance through the world's best team players and, and score in his five hole, like, or top shelf.
- [11:11]
C
And the same thing in golf, you know, somebody might be able to win a PGA tour just by hitting seven irons dead straight and safe. Not that exciting. Tiger Wood comes in and pulls out a three iron and hits a 260. It's because it's extreme.
- [11:25]
A
The reason why basketball is entertaining is because basketball players are 7ft tall. They're freaks. Like, they come out. They're these huge freaks of nature. Like, you don't get to see that in the regular world. And they've got fireworks. And then cheerleaders come out and then they're like, you get to see this guy that's 7ft tall from across the court, you know, throw a free throw when it goes in. And then it, you know, like, it's, it's cool. Like, that's cool. But like, basketball on its own isn't like super interesting. It's that it's. To me, it's that.
- [11:56]
C
No, it's a fun game. But if you were to look at basketball, you know, in, in the 50s and 60s when there wasn't a lot of slam dunks, it just wasn't that entertaining. It's become entertaining. I think. I think the NBA should raise the, the hoop a couple feet to make slam dunks.
- [12:10]
A
To make it.
- [12:10]
C
Because people have become bigger, more enjoyable and, and take away the whole thing of, you know, what I would do is I would make the slam dunk three points and I would get rid of the Three point arc.
- [12:21]
A
Yeah, like you're right.
- [12:21]
C
And I bet you that would make the game because you would see people kind of crashing towards that net for three pointers. Like that would be something that would change the game.
- [12:30]
A
The, the reason I think it's reasonable to be a little bit controversial on the basketball front is because the role of, of branding and how much it reinvented it, right. Like with the LA Lakers and how they introduced courtside and the, from getting the founder's name right now they did that whole documentary on it. He revived basketball in the, in the 80s, right. Like he, there was the, the sport was fledgling, there wasn't excitement and entertainment and he injected all the shock and awe, the surprise and delight. He made it an opportunity for rich people to show up to be seen courtside. He made, he marketed the sexiness. He made, he made basketball sexy. And it completely spiked viewership, it increased revenue for the league and it was because of marketing and branding that really made basketball like a big three sport in the United States. And it's reasonable to touch on that point because without that glitz and glamour and that optics, basketball isn't as interesting.
- [13:28]
C
You know, and it occurred to me, it's like all of society wants equality of outcome in everything. As opposed to saying, okay look, there are some things that have high value for entertainment purposes and you can't kind of say, well we want to create equality of outcome for, you know, people who, from a different type of category doing the same thing. Like the NBA is entertainment when it's played at its best. But you can't say we want equality of outcome for the WNBA just because they're females. Like the NBA is just more entertaining by a certain percentage. So they'll make more. If the WNBA becomes equally entertaining, they should get paid the same amount. It's like the women's soccer team in the United States, like they played the national women's soccer team, played a 15 year old state men's soccer team and the 15 year old boys team beat them 14 to 1. Right. Like that's just a reality now. That doesn't mean anybody is better or worse humans. It's just what is entertainment worth when.
- [14:32]
A
You'Re going to be entertained?
- [14:33]
C
Yeah, like you pay.
- [14:35]
A
It's, it's like a shitty thing to say because I am a, I'm, I'm the first woman in my family to go to university. I am a very strong female. I'm advocating for myself in the workplace. I very much subscribe to where I think feminism is done right but at the end of the day, I mean, I don't want to watch women's basketball. Like, I want to watch women's volleyball or I want to watch. I want to watch women's tennis, women's tennis, or I want to watch women's gymnastics, or I want to watch women's figure skating, like, or cheerleading. Like, there's a ton of things that I would love to watch women do.
- [15:11]
C
It's okay to be different, but I just know I want. I want to raise some money, reach out to me. I want. Want to create the W. NFL. And I. And I just wanted to have tackle.
- [15:20]
A
Football, but we just, like, can't have these conversations anymore without being just it. And it's what's wrong with society, you.
- [15:29]
C
Know, where I think it's actually been done. Okay. And a lot of people want to hate on Dana White, but in the ufc, he actually was very fair in terms of bringing females.
- [15:37]
A
I love watching the women fight in ufc. I think that's a great point. They do fantastic. And Rhonda Rousey was a fucking killer.
- [15:43]
C
She, at one point was the highest paid, but remember when she was asked a question, do you have any issue with. I think it was about women's soccer. She goes, do you have any issue with the women's national soccer team making less than the men's national soccer team? And she goes, don't ask me to get on this train. She goes, I'm the highest paid person in the UFC because I'm the most entertaining.
- [16:00]
A
Yeah.
- [16:01]
C
And she just slammed it. But that reality is.
- [16:03]
A
No, that gives me goosebumps, because that's exactly the point that we need to make, is that it's ultimately up to the players to create a game that is entertaining. And they're being mean girls in the wnba and the woman who is driving objectively the most eyeballs and the most ticket sales is who they're trying to exit out the back door or stage left. And it's going to be the demise of the ability for that to be successful, because it's going to move other women like Caitlin Clark that have that skill set that might not look the bill to not be in women's sports.
- [16:40]
C
Shooting yourself in the foot, missing the three, the free throw marbles in my mouth again. You know, just get out of your own way when it comes to success. Don't cloud it with politics. Don't cloud it with other issues. Focus on the product. Make the best product possible, and if it's not good enough, move on. But don't ruin things because you're trying to be right.
- [17:02]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [17:03]
C
Boom. Haters, pylon.