The Art of the Brand – Episode Summary

Episode: The Death of Empathy: Why Good Intentions Are Killing Great Brands

Hosts: Camille Moore & Philip Millar
Date: November 6, 2025

Overview

This episode tackles the dangers of “suicidal empathy” in branding—when good intentions, such as performative inclusivity or virtue signaling, undermine what made a brand successful in the first place. Camille and Philip dissect recent industry examples, pop culture moments, and the pitfalls of trend-chasing for brands, emphasizing the need for authentic strategy over crowd-pleasing. They also explore the shifting roles of social media platforms like Snapchat and debate Vogue’s viral “boyfriends are no longer cool” idea, always through the lens of brand relevance and longevity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Empathy vs. Execution in Branding

• Suicidal Empathy Defined
  Empathy is good, but when taken to its extreme—suicidal empathy—it destroys brands, businesses, or even countries by putting the loudest subgroup ahead of core customers.
  • “You're seeing, like, people who are trying to show empathy for the loudest subgroup. Right. And they're doing it at the expense or contempt of their actual customer.” – Philip (00:37, 30:45)
  • Gad Saad’s work is referenced as a warning against self-destructive inclusivity.
• Meritocracy Over Performative Inclusion
  Awarding contracts or creative campaigns based on checking inclusion boxes instead of creativity leads to mediocre outcomes.
  • “It's no longer the best creative agency that's getting the win to do the commercial. It's the most inclusive. It's the agencies that check off the most boxes...” – Camille (03:53)
• Brand Mistakes & Analogies to Sports
  • Parallels between brand blunders and moments in sports where a team beats itself, not the competition.
  • “It's not that the Dodgers won. It's that the Toronto Blue Jays lost, and it was their game to lose.” – Camille (02:22)

2. Social Media Platform Strategy: The Case of Snapchat

• Is Snapchat the Next Big Thing?
  The hosts debate the relevance of Snapchat for brands and discuss if its increased creator payouts merit investment.
  • “Can Snapchat make a creator led comeback?” – Camille (13:26)
  • Snapchat pays $1,000 per million views, second only to YouTube ($2,500), and above TikTok ($600). (17:34)
• Snapchat’s Real Use Cases
  Mostly used by Gen Z as an alternative camera roll and private messaging tool.
  • “Younger kids...are using Snapchat in lieu of the camera roll because they can save photos somewhere else instead of like in their phone camera roll.” – Camille (15:58)
  • Features like Snapchat streaks create artificial engagement.
• Should Every Business Chase Every Platform?
  • The danger of spreading brand resources too thin; strategy should focus on where your actual audience spends time.
  • “I think there's this race to we need to be everywhere when you're not doing any of them properly.” – Camille (24:25)
• Advice for Founders
  Try platforms early if your resources allow, but don’t rush into every “new thing” without a clear strategy.

3. When Good Intentions Undermine Great Brands

• Brands Diluting Themselves for the Sake of ‘Wokeness’
  Examples: Lululemon, Victoria’s Secret, and more:
  • Lululemon’s NFL “swag deal” – no product innovation, just logo-slapping.
    • “There was no innovation in the product. They literally slapped their logo on the scuba hoodies and the aligned leggings.” – Philip & Camille (39:04)
  • Victoria’s Secret pivoted from aspirational to broad-based inclusivity, leading to brand confusion and decline.
• Performative vs. Authentic Empathy
  • “It's good to have values. You just don't want values that everybody else has... be empathetic...in accordance with your values.” – Philip (33:46)
• Consequences for Ignoring Brand Core
  • Brands that abandon their core identity in pursuit of loudest voices often lose both core customers and relevance over time.
  • “Their move to take the saying their running ambassador was the 300 pound woman when the brand was actually built on true athleticism doesn't connect...it's no surprise the company is down 50%.” – Camille (34:19)

4. Ghost Brands: Losing Relevance

• Definition & Modern-Day Examples
  Ghost brands are recognizable by name but no longer relevant. Examples include Kodak, Playboy, Sears, and, as Bill Maher suggests, even the Democratic Party.
  • “It's becoming a ghost brand where there are names of things that you still remember as once being great, but they really don't have relevance to their audience anymore.” – Philip (42:47)
• How Do Brands Become Ghostly?
  • Loss of innovation, resting on past glory, drifting from core audience.
  • Pivoting messaging to be "against something" rather than for something substantive is a losing (brand) strategy: “You can't just be anti something. Right...as opposed to being for something that inspires you to get behind it.” – Philip (43:50)

5. Media Critique: Vogue’s ‘Boyfriends are No Longer Cool’

• Misguided Messaging & Gender Dynamics
  • The Vogue narrative promotes the idea that having a boyfriend is uncool, equating relationships with outdated or political values.
  • “To say that having a boyfriend is not cool is to deliberately lead their audience down a path of unhappiness, I think while pretending to be happy.” – Philip (48:46)
• Polarization & Clickbait
  • Both genders’ digital echo chambers are driving them further apart, contributing to increased loneliness and “a sea of unhappiness.”
  • “When each gender is emnifying the other, the likelihood of you coming together gets lower and lower, which means we're not happy, which means we don't carry on the species.” – Philip (53:12)
• Posting Relationships Online
  • Debate on authenticity vs. validation—what’s the brand cost of oversharing, and is it ever “cool” to keep some things private?
  • “Social media to me is a very powerful tool and it's my business, but from a. I don't need the validation on my life front.” – Camille (62:58)
• Notable Reflection
  • Brands and individuals must be deliberate in what they showcase online, maintaining boundaries between personal and public selves.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You're seeing, like, people who are trying to show empathy for the loudest subgroup. Right. And they're doing it at the expense or contempt of their actual customer.” – Philip (00:37)
• “It's no longer the best creative agency that's getting the win to do the commercial. It's the most inclusive...none of it [is about] creativity.” – Camille (03:53)
• “Empathy is good in terms of helping people around you, but if you just opened your door to every refugee... Your home would be destroyed...that would be suicidal empathy.” – Philip (29:01)
• “If you're focusing on creating content...the price point on tech that makes you stand out and better is the difference.” – Camille (08:37)
• “Ghost brands...they really don't have relevance to their audience anymore.” – Philip (42:47)
• “You can't just be anti something. Right. You can't just be anti Trump.” – Philip (43:50)
• “To say that having a boyfriend is not cool is to deliberately lead their audience down a path of unhappiness, I think while pretending to be happy.” – Philip (48:46)
• “Social media is extremely powerful. It's very much a job. And it's a job that I also want to like clock out of at the end of the day.” – Camille (63:32)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Empathy vs. Strategy in Brand Decisions: 00:37, 30:45
• Sports & Brand Failure Analogy: 01:45–02:46
• TV Commercial Creativity & Meritocracy: 03:12–03:53
• Snapchat Breakdown & Creator Economics: 13:26–24:50
• Suicidal Empathy Defined & Brand Examples: 29:01–31:35
• Performative vs. Authentic Empathy (Land Acknowledgment): 33:05–33:46
• Lululemon Case Study & Collaborations: 34:19–41:29
• Ghost Brands, Politics, & Lessons: 42:39–48:03
• Vogue ‘Boyfriends’ Article & Gender Dynamics: 48:28–55:30
• Relationship Sharing Online & Brand Repercussions: 58:26–63:32

Tone and Style

The episode is lively, blunt, and unafraid to tackle uncomfortable or controversial branding issues. Camille and Philip alternate between industry insider analysis and candid, culturally aware commentary, bringing both humor and depth to each segment. They offer actionable advice while calling out trends that distract from what makes brands—and people—genuinely successful, happy, and resilient.