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- [00:00]
A
It's harder for when people are being presented stuff. They can just be like, that's good enough. And they can just say like, that it, that looks nice, but they don't realize the power and the psychology of how our brains categorize and sort like, what a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Let's talk today about the power of font. Font is such an important aspect to branding, and it's what a lot of brands overlook. Fonts are as important, if not more important, than the logo because the way that your brain understands the design of the font adds quite a bit to the experience that the brand provides.
- [00:52]
B
I don't know until, until we've started talking about it, I never even really thought fonts mattered. But then as soon as you told me or we had discussed why they matter in terms of being part of an overall brand, and now you can, now I can immediately pick up when it doesn't match something about the brand or when they've picked a bad font.
- [01:09]
A
It's interesting because fonts need to work with the entire visual identity. Like, it needs to complement the colors, it needs to complement the architecture of the logo, and it adds to the universe the brand is trying to create. Most people, though, don't realize the importance of font, and they default to generic fonts that a lot of people use. Like Montserrat is a font that a lot of businesses use. Same with pop ins. And it's hard to differentiate yourself and not, not become a part of a sea of sameness by using the same font that everybody else uses.
- [01:43]
B
This is, this is one thing I think people can consider in fonts, and I think a lot of people miss it because we're taught to read in a letter format like you, you read every letter, make a word. But having taken a speed reading course, you can learn to read like six words at a time, right? And then when you're thinking about your brand and your microscript, your, your brain actually isn't seeing each letter and kind of reading. Your brain is seeing a picture of a phrase. And so the font helps capture what you want the phrase to capture. You know, by the way, it's, it's illustrating, like, the way it's illustrated creates the feeling if it's a soft font and you have a soft message, but if it's a bold, bold microscript, then you want, you know, it like it supports the messaging, but it requires kind of an Artist skill to make sure it matches properly.
- [02:35]
A
It's really interesting because font really, really provides so much context to a brand. But I would say font problems aren't weighted equally like small businesses. I find their biggest issue with font is either they're using a generic font that makes it harder for the, for the consumer to differentiate them because it looks the same as so many other industries and it also looks very small business. But I also find small businesses suffer from wanting something that looks pretty, but it's very hard to read, and it, it's very illegible. And then there's also an art to balancing your H1 and your body font, and that's also important. So when you, when your, your brand should have a font family. So it's typically two fonts. It can be three fonts. If you have three fonts, it's typically a stylized version of one of the two fonts, typically the headline font. So if you're using, like our brand font is IvyPresto. So IvyPresto is a font family. It has different weights and then it also has like a, with like an italics version of it. So like a slanted version. So RH2 could be an italicized thin font versus the H1 could be a bolded font of that font family. So it's, it's the same font, but it's, it looks, it looks different because it has a different weight or stylization to it. So what we often see, well, businesses and you should also have your body font be a sans serif. So the difference between serif and sans serif is serif is like those pretty little licks. So like a Times you Roman is a serif font and then sans serif is without the licks. So that's where you get more of that, like, tech feeling of font, where it's like more rounded and it doesn't have the licks. Times New Roman fonts with licks or the serifs typically represent something more prestigious for something. Something more prestigious. Something more like elevated, like a law firm. You see.
- [04:45]
B
Older.
- [04:46]
A
Older.
- [04:47]
B
It's more of the antiquated calligraphy.
- [04:49]
A
Times you Roman is an extremely old font. I think it's like one of the original fonts, like when fonts were Roman.
- [04:55]
B
I don't know.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah, no, true, But I don't think they had fonts then. Like, I think it's like 18th century. I should Google that.
- [05:02]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:03]
A
So Times New roman is from 1932 and it was commissioned by a British newspaper. We have a font expert in House at t@tei. And I find it really interesting for us to learn the history and the psychology behind fonts. Like, there's really so much that goes into a font and what you're seeing that's really cool is more and more bigger brands are commissioning artists to create custom fonts for them. So this is interesting for two reasons. The first is when businesses are transitioning between being, let's say a brand into a good brand, and you're now investing and getting rebranded by a professional agency, you will be often shocked to find that the cool fonts or the fonts really rooted in psychology that will help shape how your customer feels about your brand. Cost money and the licensing fees are actually quite high because there was basically the fonts that are created outside, like the Times New Roman and the pop ins, which are considered like the Google fonts or the free fonts, they're developed by an artist custom. So you have to pay really big dollars. Like it's a whole industry, the font industry. So these big brands are getting basically these agencies to commission to create custom fonts because one, they can save money on licensing fees and two, it's a font that nobody else can use, so they can create their own iconic font. And this started becoming a big thing in 2010 with tech companies. You saw Android launch one, Google launch one. Let me actually read them to you. So in 2010, you had Android's Roboto font, Google's product Sans, Apple, San Francisco YouTube, sans, Samsung One, and then you also later had Netflix Sans, Airbnb Cereal, Uber Move, Twitter's Chirp, Burger King's Flame, and Popeye's Chicken Sands. So it also becomes, it should all pop up, but it also becomes like a part of the brand. Like to name your font in, in extension to what that brand represents.
- [07:16]
B
Well, like even for the word Uber, like it just takes what it makes artistry out of a word.
- [07:25]
A
Yeah.
- [07:25]
B
Right. So but it's, it's always tied to letters. Right. As opposed to, it'd be interesting if you tried it to the word. Right. So you're making your word or your microscript look more impactful through artistry of language. Yeah, artistry of language. It's interesting, but it's interesting.
- [07:42]
A
It's like, you know, the topic of font is so obvious to people who get into like a certain area of their business. You know, like once you decide to rebrand and you do it at a professional level, you are exposed to the importance of font. But a lot of like the small businesses that are struggling, I Would have you reflect and look at your font and be quite critical of it. Because where I find small businesses hold themselves back in is I don't understand the obviousness and the simplicity of how our brains categorize products when we look at them.
- [08:15]
B
Can I jump? I think I remembered. Cause first of all, for a lot of small business owners, unless they're incredibly artistic, it's a new thing to think about your font necessarily. You just kind of like one thing or another, but it also shows on that pathway of brand progression. So you start a business and so you have a business and a brand. So generally you just don't want to make a critical error on your font, right. Like when you're starting a business. But then once you start growing into a good business then you kind of get this phase, okay, we gotta, we're gonna re look at things. Are we messaging now? You kind of can start looking at subtler things and it just imagine in a house, as you get go up the scale of house quality, the details start to matter more. The details start to matter more and so then you get a good one. But if you want to go to a great one, then you want like art artistry into your font and, and you have to have somebody who can, who can tell you what you need to know because you can't know everything. Like if you're great at supply chain, you know, management, it's hard, it's hard to know what font helps you get more sales or create your brand.
- [09:18]
A
Well, it's interesting because if you are like in listening to this, analyze the best brands, right? Like brand execution at the highest level should appear simple. So when you pull up a website like Airbnb or an app like Uber or you look at like level eight that was at sleep brand. We looked at the other day when you go onto their website, even Apple, like there's very few data points to create an understanding right away, right. And it's really comes down to imagery, colors and font.
- [09:56]
B
Can I, can I. I think even to maybe more of the male or whatever sided brain. When you look at a beautiful Porsche, it doesn't have tons of, of angle. You know what I mean?
- [10:07]
A
Like font and color and design.
- [10:09]
B
Like it's well done. Like just even the car, right? Like it's, it's the simplicity of design which is sometimes people like oh, it's so simple. Oh, it's just like four letters. It's well to get. Just do it to look the best. Probably spend six months because you have a microsecond to have people pay attention. And so those details are important. But when you look at a car that looks beautifully aesthetic, it's the same as looking at a logo or a microscript and it looks perfectly aesthetic.
- [10:34]
A
But where it's different though is their logo is. Is a font based logo.
- [10:39]
B
Right.
- [10:39]
A
Like it's their name written out versus like the, the Porsche like crest. Right. Like that's kind of more, I would say their icon. But that is the, that is the product and execution Porsche we learned. Yes. I just, I still feel like an idiot when I say Porsche even though it's right. But when you like look at the iPad, like if I'm gonna hold up the iPad, like this is the product as you experience it and there's the Apple, you know, on the back. But when you go to the Apple website, that's where font lives. Oh, so they've just gone totally down to an icon. So this is a bad example.
- [11:15]
B
Like those are the old. But you can see that the, the way they wrote Apple has changed over the years.
- [11:21]
A
Oh yeah, totally. And it like this, like Apple is.
- [11:24]
B
Like, is like that one on the top right is gross.
- [11:27]
A
Oh, horrible. But that's also like I wonder what year that was. Yeah.
- [11:31]
B
Then there's a thick one. Look at the one with the rainbow.
- [11:34]
A
But this is an important, this is an important discovery. Like the, your logo. Even if it's written out because that font looks good.
- [11:41]
B
Right. Like it looks clean intact.
- [11:44]
A
So clean intact. Apple here is just like the font. Like they just, they take font so seriously. But that's, that's an interesting point that you bring up though, right? Is there are, there are many brands where their name is a font. Right. Their logo is a font type because it rests more on their name than on an emblem. So like Buc. EE's is an example of like their brand is an icon. It's a beaver. Right. Whereas Apple is an icon. It's. It's the, the bitten apple.
- [12:16]
B
You can't have a serif. A serif logo and then sans serif font, can you?
- [12:22]
A
Totally. You actually should.
- [12:23]
B
Yeah.
- [12:23]
A
So you typically, you actually have a more stylized. Because it's harder to write body content. It depends. Font is so psychologically tied to what you represent. So if you are a law firm, if you are a research agency, if you are in data like you, you're kind of like a market research data company. If you're something that's rooted more in like education and expertise, having serif body and serif headline could make sense. Typically though, it's a different weight or a different. It's a, you would use like a font family. Most brands today, the trend is that you would use a serif headline and a sans serif body because it's easier to read body paragraph that's serif than having the licks. That's also often like, that's what small businesses miss is that you can pick a headline font that looks nice as a headline because you seldom see more than a sentence of text in a headline font versus seeing paragraphs with the licks. It's a very different reading experience. So when we're talking about, when we're talking about the customized font, of course logos are customized and they should be customized. So when you're working with the designer and you're creating a font, a font based logo, they should be manipulating the font type so that it's uniquely your own. So they can use a free font.
- [14:01]
B
Or it's like a color palette.
- [14:02]
A
Yes.
- [14:03]
B
Right. And I think when people go onto a website subconsciously, you don't know why sub websites seem just very easy or pleasant to navigate. It's because your brain is seeing something that flows like the. It's like if you go onto a color palette that doesn't work, your brain doesn't like it and you don't know why you don't like it. Same thing can happen with font, but.
- [14:25]
A
It'S, I think it's, it's harder for when people are being presented stuff, they can just be like that's good enough. And they can just say like that it, that looks nice. But they don't realize the power and the psychology of how our brains categorize and sort. Like if you look at baby products, they're very commonly like soft nude tone palettes. You will have like rounder, lulling fonts. It will seem very kind and approachable. And for children, like if I was to give you words like, that's what would come to mind. If you think of energy drink companies, it's very bold, it's very striking colors, it's sharper fonts, it's more cap like fonts like you get kind of more, it's more aggressive. So if you were to compare like baby companies versus energy drink companies, that may seem obvious to you because you were so used to it, because this is being sold at the highest level. But you need to understand what does your consumer expect from, from your caliber and your category of brand and how can you ensure that your font furthers that connection representation you're, you're looking for your brand to hold real estate in your consumer's mind.
- [15:39]
B
Yeah. We saw a construction company the other day that actually had fonts that were kind of like the softer babyish fonts and were like. And they, they probably didn't know it, but it, that was what was incongruent about their branding when they were looking at it is they probably at the beginning, somebody, some nice designer said, hey, doesn't this look nice? And then they grew into this big company, but their font didn't match their messaging of tough products.
- [16:02]
A
You actually see it all the time in small to medium sized businesses. They don't realize how powerful the psychology is. And it can be something as small as your font that's really holding you back. Because if someone sees your brand and they can't figure out how to sort you, like this has happened so many times when I'm walking by. Especially like brick and mortar, like stores.
- [16:23]
B
Yes.
- [16:23]
A
Where they'll like create some kind of signage. They hired someone to do it and they don't realize how incongruent their offering is to their branding. And you'll never walk inside the door. And if you do walk inside the door, you can have a great experience and you can get customers, but you don't realize who you're missing.
- [16:38]
B
Let's double down on that point because I think you went fast over is. It's something we should capture when we walk by it more. But how often you see like that kind of promotion that just doesn't align with the store and so you, you don't go in it. Like it doesn't. Like we've evolved into hunter gatherers. Like we're looking for things that capture our brain and pull us in and it has to, it has to fit certain parameters. And how many times do we walk by and we're like, what the hell is that?
- [17:06]
A
Like, I, I find this is actually a massive issue with small businesses. And it's like the logo is not enough. Like the logo is such a small aspect of the brand. So much of how the brand makes you feel is through the font and through the colors. Because that's where you get additional data points. Right. Like the logo. Only in really well executed branding can the logo alone create an entire experience like it. And it's also when you look at like an Airbnb and like their logo is great. Let's say they had a storefront outside and we would all know it. We wouldn't all know what it is because of that storefront. We know what it is because of how much exposure they've had in market. And it's been imprinted in our mind. And it owns real estate that. That's told us what they do. You don't own that real estate yet. And if your font sucks, you're not going to. You're not going to make a connection that makes sense in your customer's mind, and you're losing business.
- [18:01]
B
There's almost something like digital shelf space in your mind that you can equate to when you go down the grocery store aisle, you know, and you have like, one product or another sitting beside each other. The way that it presents to your brain, you know, like our kind of our primitive brain. At one level, like, your eyes get attracted to one thing or the other based. And the font has a big thing to do with it and what it's saying. So I think as I'm thinking about your promotion, understanding human minds, the reason why we see faces in the clouds is because we've been evolved to create shapes and patterns where they don't necessarily exist so we can understand the world. And when we're doing these promotions, often they're just cluttered. Like, they don't. They don't create an image or something that attracts us into it. It's just. It's too much. And if we were to go back into the 70s, there was this, really. There was this advertising trend of making the images almost sexual. It'd be interesting to go back and look at it. But you were saying one thing, but the actual image overlay was sexual. Right. And I think we've kind of lost that art of suggestion in how we brand. To attract people in font is one way to.
- [19:11]
A
I get what you're saying. I think that that's interesting. But even at a more basic level, your font has to not necessarily even suggest something else. It needs to tell you exactly what you do.
- [19:20]
B
And, like, we got a font.
- [19:22]
A
We're in an attention economy. So, like, you need to be telling people exactly what you do, who you are, and why you're the best person for the job. And if your font doesn't suggest that you are, there's a massive opportunity cost that's impacting your business. And until you take that visual aspect seriously, it's what I think is really weird about the visual aspect of branding that it. It becomes so difficult to quantify or to decide, you know, if we should invest in improving the brand. Because they can be. They can be doing good enough, you know, like, especially that construction company, like, clearly they're doing good enough. It's just the question comes down to like what are you losing? What are you missing out on? And how, how could you improve. How could your visual identity also improve your customers experience so that they're more inclined to refer you to other people or they're more inclined to use you again, like there is something to the psychology of how you make people feel as they're going through the transaction also.
- [20:20]
B
Mm.
- [20:23]
A
So here are some examples of brands that had. Had invested in custom font to elevate or change their brand. And you can, you can see from the way that they change like how what it suggests psychologically. So I find the ones that are the most interesting are Airbnb, Spotify and Pinterest.
- [20:43]
B
See to me, Google seems like a, a change because that original Google was like they were this fun tech guys, but then it became actually kind of more scary. Yeah. Like it become like a scary tech giant. Like.
- [20:56]
A
Yeah, it's interesting like how that font. You're right like to the left actually to the left. It's. It to me is so quintessentially like the mid-2000s. Like that, that. So that's a serif font and that kind of like light Sarah feel like really kind of pushing into the sans serif world like was very 2000. It's kind of what like Oprah's brand felt like. It's what weight watchers felt like. It's like so many iconic Ugg kind of felt like that like this was kind of that that time period. Even Facebook. Like I feel like Facebook and Google both really give you that like I'm a scary tech giant feel. Microsoft's also interesting because it really felt on both sides an example of the times.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah. It just seems weaker. The second Microsoft seems empty. Whereas the first one is like we're the Facebook.
- [21:45]
A
Google and Microsoft are actually all so close together.
- [21:49]
B
Yeah. That it's interesting.
- [21:53]
A
It's really interesting. And what's really interesting is that on.
- [21:55]
B
The left hand side, they're so different.
- [21:57]
A
So different.
- [21:58]
B
Yeah.
- [21:59]
A
And what I find the Microsoft to the left actually almost looks like it could be auto parts.
- [22:03]
B
Yes.
- [22:04]
A
Which is.
- [22:05]
B
But it was driving the computer world. Like to me it was like Microsoft is driving computer world. And that's why, that's why it's almost got the lean to the right. You know what I mean? Like it's driving you. That's what I got to feel from it now when I look at it, it's. I don't see the whole world, the whole word. When I look at the second Microsoft.
- [22:24]
A
To me, it feels, though, where the brand is now, where it's like, kind of clean and forgotten, you know, like.
- [22:30]
B
Yeah, no, it's. It's a tech giant that's. That's making billions in places you don't know.
- [22:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
- [22:36]
B
Whereas on the left, it was much more consumer focused.
- [22:39]
A
Y.
- [22:39]
B
Right. On the right, it's, you know, we've got AI, we've got data.
- [22:46]
A
Sorry. Oh, that's crazy. Hey.
- [22:50]
B
Oh, I like that.
- [22:51]
A
1980. 1982.
- [22:53]
B
That's how it started at 72, look. 75. Crazy. 1980. Yeah. It does look like Metallica. It's hilarious.
- [23:02]
A
Well, they. They ripped off the Metallica logo.
- [23:04]
B
They did.
- [23:05]
A
That's really interesting. I. I think that you nailed it with the driving. That's exactly what it is. Because it. It has movement in it, especially between the O and the F. Yeah. And it's very slightly italicized that it feels like it's moving, which is. You nailed it. Go back to the other one. Jasmine. What I find the most interesting is when I look at Spotify and Airbnb.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah.
- [23:27]
A
Those so look like underfunded startups where, like, their. Their secondary thought is branding.
- [23:34]
B
You know what? Also I think from a branding perspective, it's. It's trying to be literal in the font. So Airbnb, it looks like air mattress. Interesting. Spotify has the, like, the little music thing, like it's on a record player.
- [23:47]
A
But it also feels like a party. Like, I wonder if they created it. Like it was like, party so you.
- [23:51]
B
Could play your playlist. Right. So they're trying to capture the.
- [23:53]
A
You know what? It also feels like Twister.
- [23:56]
B
Yeah.
- [23:57]
A
Like, kind of like how it's, like, moving.
- [23:59]
B
Yeah.
- [23:59]
A
Pinterest, I find it really interesting that they would have launched with that stylized tea because there's already so much going on with the P. It feels off balance. But again, that was also kind of a figment of the time. On the fashion side, I find it really interesting for me, like, it. Okay, wait, sorry, before we move over, if we were to pull out Pinterest and Pinterest. So if it was to go Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Spotify, ebay, they all look so much the same.
- [24:31]
B
0Serif. Like, nobody has serif on in the tech space.
- [24:37]
A
That's how you show tech. It's, like, simple, it's clean, it's easy. It's like.
- [24:42]
B
But even in the fashion, all serif is gone.
- [24:44]
A
But it's. What's interesting in fashion is it's all capped.
- [24:47]
B
Yeah.
- [24:47]
A
So like, the style right now is, like. Is just cap lock. Like, you're just making a statement by the name and the name alone.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah.
- [24:53]
A
I find the fashion one really interesting that they've all gone cap locks.
- [24:57]
B
I just find it very kind of uninteresting. Their fonts, though, Like, I don't find them to be that interesting. Yeah, like that. That artistic. Especially since they're a design company. You know what I mean?
- [25:09]
A
Like, I think, though, that I'm okay with that.
- [25:13]
B
Like, St. Laurent versus Yves St. Laurent. I never. I never liked the Saint Laurent. Like, I. Ysl. I understood Saint Laurent. I don't get it. And the original Burberry.
- [25:26]
A
I think I got the original Burberry. They. I would say on there, the only one that shouldn't have changed was the Burberry.
- [25:34]
B
Yeah.
- [25:35]
A
And the Balenciaga. I think the old Balenciaga was timeless. I think Balmain was outdated. That needed to change. Ramoa. I like the older one better, but I can understand it like a kitchen appliance, to me. Ramoa. Yeah, you're right. It does DVF I really like the most. Like, I think that was a nice change. And. But to your point, what I think is interesting in fashion is outside of this is why ev Saint Laurent made sense. The only time that their logo matters is when it's, like, plastered on a product. Otherwise, it's a tag. Right? So, like, for. For them, like, having a cap lock tag where, like, it's very clear what brand it is actually makes more sense. Like on the back of a shirt or back of a dress when it's, like, on a bag. Like, that's why Balmain made more sense, is like, it made their. They had. They were kind of famous for their. Their printed tees, and that was just so specific for a certain kind of customer that they needed to make it more, like. It's funny to say this in luxury, but, like, more inclusive so that different. Like, so that different types of people would want to wear it. Like, this is very, like, Italian or, like, older Euro to the left.
- [26:46]
B
You're right.
- [26:47]
A
In Saint Laurent, they had the same issue because the YSL looked really stylized and dated on a big bag. And you saw a big push for that in the mid to late 2000s of, like, rewearing brands for brand sake. So YSL, they. They use the YSL in a really cool stack, especially, like, on shoes. And that was really where the brand lived, was like, on kind of. They put it on, like, the front part of your shoe, and, like, it looked really Quite nice. But in any other application, it. It needed to be cleaned up because YSL also really pushes for being this, like, clean, edgy, kind of leathery brand. And like, to the left, it feels more like dated, like, old lady makeup than it does, like a high fashion leather brand. So the. The transition makes sense. Dvf, I think, is the most interesting because she had such a moment with the wrap dresses, and that was so big in the early 2000s, but that was really her only thing. So I find this really interesting.
- [27:48]
B
I see. I bet you there'll be a throwback at some point where people want the luxury. The old version of the luxury.
- [27:55]
A
Totally. But that. Totally. And that's where. So it's actually interesting. Saint Laurent actually kind of went back to its almost more original feel. The stylized YSL was very early 2000s.
- [28:08]
B
Can I. You know how we can maybe tie this in that. That, that. I think we saw that one video or whatever. The person was talking about Vibe. No Vibe.
- [28:18]
A
Yeah.
- [28:18]
B
Right. Like in the fashion industry, they used to be like these to have vibe. And it looks like when you go to the right, it's taking away from the vibe. Right. They look similar down the right side of fashion.
- [28:31]
A
And it's an interesting way of looking at it because you're right. Like, it's. It's interesting. I have two opinions on this. On one hand, when I look at Burberry, that's when I actually really disagree with. Because I feel like Burberry has lost who they are.
- [28:42]
B
Yeah.
- [28:43]
A
Like, it's okay to just be a tartan brand that isn't growing, you know, 20% year over year. Like, just be really iconic in that segment and have it. Everybody really want that.
- [28:51]
B
Like classic Burberry tartan and you live forever.
- [28:54]
A
Yeah. And that's. And that's okay.
- [28:55]
B
Yeah.
- [28:55]
A
But. And I. I like their one on the left more because that. That horse means something, you know, like, it signals something.
- [29:03]
B
I actually think the font captures what I feel about Burberry.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah.
- [29:06]
B
Which I don't catch. I don't get any feel from the Right.
- [29:09]
A
No, it. It just feels no vibe. But I will say on where I don't disagree with it from the. From the vibe perspective is this is what's tough about fashion and fashion specifically is that what makes that industry. That industry is creating different collections four times a year. Society needs to move away from that. But the way that the industry standard is set, this makes more sense so that the art of fashion can evolve and it can have different looks complemented by a tag that's vibeless because the vibe is supposed to be created from.
- [29:53]
B
The collection, but has Chanel. I wonder if we could see if Chanel has changed its.
- [29:58]
A
It definitely has because right now it has the same concept. It's like cap lock.
- [30:02]
B
But we should look because that's to me that's like the OG of of brands, you know, and they do the fashion industry.
- [30:09]
A
But I'd be more interested in inner maze. I find Chanel right now is actually not impressive. Like they're Chanel logo change. No, it's no change.
- [30:19]
B
That's what I didn't think so.
- [30:21]
A
And that shows you like how iconic it is. Literally matches exactly where those, those brands were.
- [30:28]
B
But they, but they had that before. Yeah, you know what I mean? So they kind of owned that feel and I think it worked with the C's back to back.
- [30:38]
A
Those C's back to back is iconic. But what I find interesting though is like these brands, like when you look at that list of fashion brands, like really, other than Burberry, the rest are new. Like they don't have the longevity. Like they don't have the same cachet as Hermes and Chanel. But what's interesting is that Hermes and Chanel have been kept locked fonts for over 100 years. You gotta cough out of the thing. Cap. They've had cap fonts way before. So it's really interesting that they've. And that's timeless. That's a vibe. This is kind of where the conversation is like, is it. There's luxury and there's legacy. You know, like it's. Anyone can create a brand that has the right capital to sell something at an extremely high price point and have nice looking stores and that can be considered luxury, but it's not legacy. Right. And like that's kind of. We're in, we're in a world where you can manufacture, you can manufacture luxury. And when you look at the original pillars of what made a luxury good, like one of them was a rich heritage. And like many brands today that are in this luxury box don't have that. They're transient, you know, like they're throwaway. So we're looking at a list of brands that are relevant today. But like nothing that Balenciaga does is. Would be buy the four pillars, like what luxury is.
- [32:02]
B
No, it won't exist in five years. Especially when they get bought up by giant corporations.
- [32:06]
A
They're all owned by one.
- [32:07]
B
Right. And then it's all just increase market share, not make a legacy brand.
- [32:11]
A
Yeah.
- [32:12]
B
So as soon as a Legacy brand gets purchased by a big conglomerate, it's its valuation. If I was to bet against that brand, I would bet shorts on that brand once it gets bought up, because.
- [32:23]
A
I would also bet short on Balenciaga. Like, I don't. I don't think. I don't see anybody going to that store downtown. Like, I don't. I don't understand. I wonder if, like, Balenciaga is money laundering because, like, I don't get it.
- [32:33]
B
In the end, you can, you can hire somebody to create a font for you. Probably not the right thing to do at the start of your business journey, but, you know, as you grow, it might be time to get, like, some expert opinion on what font works for you and maybe try to get something that really captures what you're trying to.
- [32:49]
A
Well, I think the takeaway from this is Google is your friend. You know, there's. There's a lot of psychology. There's tons of research. There's. You should be deciding if the font that your brand is working with one makes sense for your brand, and if not, what kind of fonts or what font families work for that industry. And then depending on where you're at, deciding what route to take, you know, do you take a free font, do you take a purchasable font, or do you take a custom font? But there's three levels. All of them have to come down to matching your brand and being in line with where your brand is at.
- [33:26]
B
I almost thought about talking about that horrible movie watch Frosted, like, unfrosted, like in the aisles. But like, when they, when they launched the Pop Tart on one side and the country squares on the other, there was a. There was a good clip from that of the visual of looking at the Pop Tart, all the kids, and then looking at the country squares and how they all just went one side and it's the exact same product. Right? That from a branding perspective, it's interesting because they were making fun of themselves that their products sucked. Their flavors were the same, just with different dyes, and people just bought it based on what brand alone.
- [34:00]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, that's, that's the whole thing, right, is like your. Your brand is your gatekeeper to experiencing your product. And if you're not signaling the right signals to your customer, you're. They're never going to be able to have your brand experience. And that's like, that's a big opportunity cost. You know, like, that's really where. Where businesses need to be quite critical on the way their brand is presented.