Podcast Summary: "Why Lululemon Is Failing and What Trump Gets Right"

The Art of the Brand
Hosts: Camille Moore & Rory (Phillip Millar) | Third Eye Insights
Date: October 17, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the state of modern branding, focusing on the recent decline of Lululemon’s brand and stock, and what business leaders can learn from surprising places—including controversial figures like Donald Trump and OnlyFans creators. The hosts, Camille and Rory, critique risk-averse, bland corporate approaches and emphasize the need for bold, differentiated branding in a noisy world. Additional topics include the creative limits of AI, shifts in luxury fashion branding (Dior’s logo change), lessons from successful personal brands, and the thin line between standing out and chasing shallow virality.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fall of Lululemon: From Cult Brand to Corporate Caution

• Lululemon’s stock is down 57%; the brand is now described as "boring" and indistinguishable in the market.
  • [00:00, Camille]: "Lululemon doesn't represent anything anymore. It's boring. There's no difference in market."
• Loss of brand identity: Teen sentiment is that Lululemon no longer signifies aspiration—"you become another person in a crowd."
• Founder’s War vs. Corporate Bureaucracy: Chip Wilson’s public critique (full-page Wall Street Journal ad) underscores the perils of removing founder vision and embracing board-led "bean counting."
  • [03:47, Rory]: "I love founders because you can't build anything unless you go against conventional wisdom. ...founders are the warriors who get into the dirt and make something amazing."
  • [06:19, Rory]: "We need to start identifying things that don't make sense. We need to tell the emperor they have no clothes."
• Death by a Thousand Cuts: Lululemon’s decline attributed to a series of misguided inclusivity moves alienating its original health- and wellness-driven audience.
  • [08:38, Rory]: "In a business, you need honesty, you need radical honesty in order to create a strategy that works."
  • [11:23, Camille]: "When you try to speak to people that you were never initially speaking to in an aggressive way, where you're trying to change your brand identity, it doesn't work."
• Chip Wilson’s Ad (read aloud):
  • [12:55, Camille] (paraphrased): Wilson outlined how relentless focus on innovation and culture was dismantled by the board’s risk-aversion and short-term focus.
  • Notable Quote from Wilson’s ad:
    “Like a plane crash, decline rarely happens because of a single failure. It’s a series of mistakes.”

Memorable Analogy:
[14:27, Rory] "We called it the Swiss cheese model...if all the holes align, that's when you can have a catastrophic error...what he's saying with his company is once he let these...in this reinforcing self serving narrative, all of these things started to happen at the same time."

2. The Dangers of Playing it Safe: Innovation vs. Bureaucracy

• Parallels to Military Bureaucracy:
  • [10:30, Rory]: "When you get growth without dynamism, you get a bunch of people who are just being obedient and are feeding the system what it asks for."
• Innovation Stagnation: Lululemon's men’s products have barely changed in 15 years; contrast to earlier product risk-taking ("anti-bull crushing" pants, edgy campaigns).
• Generic Brand Death:
  • [15:24, Rory]: "They are now just, they're almost a generic no name."
  • [18:17, Rory & Camille] summary: "Don't be boring. It doesn't work."

3. AI in Branding: Help or Hindrance?

• AI as the Ultimate Yes-Man:
  • [18:17, Camille]: "AI is desperate to please, makes things up on the fly, and tells everyone what they want to hear."
  • [18:39, Rory]: "You know what it sounds like? Lululemon employee managers."
• AI suits risk-averse corporations, but stifles real innovation for founders
  • [18:58, Rory]: "AI is perfect for...corporations that don't want to take risk because it's just going to use what's been said before...But if you're a founder...you have to be dynamic, you have to disrupt."
  • [21:27, Camille]: "I can tell it's ChatGPT when I'm like on a client's socials...it's very obvious and it's not good enough."
• Creativity is Non-delegable
  • [22:46, Rory]: "Creativity is probably the most important area of your business where you have to get the top talent you can afford."

4. Lessons from Personal Branding Missteps

The Hairdresser Parable

• Popularity vs. Functionality on Social Media
  • [26:39, Camille]: "She's prepared to do the easy work...what she's struggling [with] is doing the hard work, talking about her story, her approach to how she does hair..."
  • [29:19, Rory]: "It's depressing in that it has such a stranglehold on the ego...her default was ‘do you want to see what I went shopping for?’ when she's a hairstylist."
• Building Reputation Over Time:
  • [31:38, Rory]: "Success...is actually fighting against our natural evolved instincts. Humans have a tendency to overestimate what they can do in the short term...and they underestimate what they can do in the long term by a bunch of small wins."
  • [33:52, Camille]: "If your first video does a hundred views, that's a hundred more people than you would have talked to by not doing it."

5. Viral vs. Strategic Creativity: What’s Worth the Risk?

On Skims' Provocative Marketing

• Costume Drops & Chasing Shock Value
  • [67:00, Camille]: "Skims today launches this, like, vintage video...all these thongs that have fake hair on them."
  • [69:46, Rory]: "Somebody kind of deviant has got into Skims, like, at that creative level because you get the nipple piercing bras, and now you got pubic hair and underwear."
• But Is it Brand-Building?
  • [70:17, Rory]: "If you're doing that before you go public, it, to me it's a bit of a warning sign because you're actually stretching for attention."
  • [72:19, Rory]: "[Skims’ creative:] there’s not a lot of creative there...it’s very linear, there’s not nuance. There’s definitely not high context."

6. The Power of Polarization: What Trump Gets Right

• Learning from Winners—Even Controversial Ones
  • [47:04, Rory]: "If somebody doesn't agree with his politics but you ask them that [what can you learn from Trump], the intellectual, thoughtful friends...can still say what they can learn from him."
• Trump as Brand Model:
  • [45:47, Rory]: "If you don't want to learn from somebody who is successful because you don't like them, you're limiting your growth potential."
  • [48:53, Rory]: "He understands what the fashion industry does...wins and losses get you attention. The name of the game is be in the press, be in the game, be in people’s name."
• Microscripts & Messaging
  • [51:11, Camille]: "The number one thing that Trump understands is attention spans and microscripts...when he started calling his opponents Sleepy Joe Biden, crooked Hillary, Little Marco...the power of the microscript is really working."
• Don’t Be Afraid to Offend Non-Customers
  • [53:23, Rory]: "What Trump...do[es]...is they know who their client isn't and they're not scared to offend their non clients. And actually by offending their non clients...you actually get more loyalty from your clients."

7. Controversy, Differentiation, and the Rule of Not Being Boring

• Bonnie Blue (OnlyFans) Case Study
  • [54:12, Camille]: "Bonnie Blue...intentionally takes controversial headlines, micro scripts...starts a lot of the videos of telling women, this is not for them, this is not for you...in the hopes of the boyfriend and husband then go and secretly subscribes because her name is now top of mind."
  • [56:14, Rory]: "If I say to you, don't think of a pink elephant right now, everybody's going to quickly picture a pink elephant in their head. So there's a reverse psychology to how you get your message across...none of it is related to being boring."
• Study the Outliers, Not Just ‘Best Practices’
  • [57:04, Camille]: "We're not studying from the people who are killing it because we want to think we're better than them...We want to live on our moral superiority of there's nothing that I can learn from an only fans porn star...or Donald Trump."
• Managerial Class & Virtue Over Success
  • [58:08, Rory]: "There's actually a managerial class that would much prefer to be seen as morally right than successful."

8. Fashion Branding—Logos and the Shift to Subtlety

• Dior’s Logo Change as a Case Study
  • [38:37, Camille]: "Dior changed its logo...now with a new creative director...brought back the original logo, but without the Christian first—you’re seeing more and more brands move away from overly branded looks."
  • [38:48, Rory]: "...on the right side [of the logo chart], they all look very similar...shows the kind of conglomeration in that they're getting group think."
  • [40:41, Camille]: "Now...the signal for class and status in society is moving away from big logos."
  • Fashion shows are engineered for polarizing buzz, not volume sales—controversy generates $50M+ in earned media for Chanel.
    • [43:12, Camille]: "The whole point of these fashion shows is to be ridiculous, is to create controversy and headlines..."

9. Originality vs. Copycatting—The Super Matcha Example

• Super Matcha (Korean) vs. Toronto's ‘Matcha Matcha’
  • [63:35, Camille]: "They used such a rich green...obvious when you walk in a store...one of the few brands that made me stop in my tracks."
  • Toronto ripoff: "It's called Matcha Matcha, and they're completely ripping it off."
  • [65:20, Rory]: "I just don't think when you'd steal like that, you capture the essence of the original brand."
  • [66:17, Camille]: "...seldom do I really feel an emotional connection to a brand...in North America...the brands we celebrate are...just the most celebrity collabs, the most money...not real differentiation."

10. Takeaways: The Path to a Strong, Unforgettable Brand

Don’t Be Boring

• The unifying message across all segments: strive for boldness, risk, and distinctiveness—not safety and blandness.
  • [56:45, Camille]: "That's the through line for this episode: don't be boring."
  • [58:53, Camille]: "There isn't one way to do it. But I can tell you, sure—the way to break through is not to be boring."

Debate, Differentiate, and Win

• Study winners regardless of your personal biases.
• Offend non-customers if it strengthens your base.
• Take risks aligned with your brand, not just for temporary virality.
• Use controversy and earned media judiciously to build, not just shock.

Practical Metric: 90-91 Rule

• [36:27, Camille]: "Do your framework...the first 90 minutes for 90 days, do the one thing that’s focused on the goal..."

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Camille, on Lululemon’s Blandness:
  [00:00] “Lululemon doesn't represent anything anymore. It's boring. There's no difference in market.”

• Rory, on Founders:
  [03:47] “Founders are the warriors...then you have bureaucrats just managing things to try to extract more value before the brand dies.”

• Camille, on Trying to Please Everyone:
  [06:42] "Lululemon is a masterclass in when you try to please everyone, you please nobody, and you kill your brand over time."

• Rory, on Cautious Branding:
  [15:24] "They are now just, they're almost a generic no name.”

• Camille, on Social Media Ego:
  [30:05] "Almost everybody on social media...can't look at it objectively. Their ego is so tied...you default to ‘I need to make them care about me’ versus ‘I need to ultimately care about you.’"

• Rory, on Learning from Trump:
  [45:47] “If you don't want to learn from somebody who is successful because you don't like them, you're limiting your growth potential.”

• Camille, on Power of Microscripts:
  [51:11] "The number one thing that Trump understands is attention spans and microscripts...packed in so much power and meaning into one word.”

• Rory, on Offending Non-Customers:
  [53:23] "They know who their client isn't, and they're not scared to offend their non clients...you actually get more loyalty from your clients."

• Camille, concluding Theme:
  [56:45] “Don't be boring.”

Major Segments & Timestamps

• Lululemon Postmortem: [00:00–18:17]
• The Role (and Limits) of AI in Branding: [18:17–24:33]
• Hairdresser Social Example / Ego and Social Media: [24:33–36:28]
• Dior Logo/Fashion Branding: [38:37–43:35]
• Trump as Branding Masterclass: [45:26–54:12]
• Bonnie Blue/Controversial Personal Branding: [54:12–58:53]
• Imitation vs. Originality (Super Matcha): [62:12–66:17]
• Skims Campaigns – Risks, Rewards, and Relevance: [66:46–73:40]
• Closing: Brand Exercises, Casinos as Brands, Upcoming Segments: [73:40–end]

Final Takeaways

• Blandness is Death: The market punishes companies that become too safe and undifferentiated.
• Seek Out Lessons from the Unlikely: Study winners—even polarizing or controversial ones—if you aspire to breakthrough success.
• Creativity Deserves Investment: Don’t delegate the crucial creative elements of your brand to “yes men” or machines.
• Own Your Target Audience: Be clear about who your brand isn’t for—polarization can be powerful.
• Branding is Not Theory: Boldness, emotional resonance, and a willingness to risk are non-optional in today’s saturated marketplace.

For more in-depth learning and the upcoming Brand and Social Media Masterclass, follow the hosts on Instagram and join the conversation on best/worst sports logos next week!