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- [00:00]
Camille Moore
You really should be investing money right now.
- [00:02]
Philip Miller
The roast has kind of become the last vestige where you can actually say funny things.
- [00:07]
Camille Moore
You have to do crazy shit because you need to stand out and be unique on the Internet, you know, yes,
- [00:12]
Philip Miller
you're making a movie, you're world building. The question is, are you doing it
- [00:15]
Camille Moore
well, if your socials are not top notch, they're not picking you.
- [00:19]
Philip Miller
What I see with TikTok shop now is a potential competitor to Amazon.
- [00:22]
Camille Moore
The hardest job for us to fill in the agency is a social media coordinator.
- [00:27]
Philip Miller
I think Drake may be used to write some good songs. I think it's auto tuned. I think most of it's garbage.
- [00:31]
Camille Moore
My brain expands me to do those things after hours and that's what kills you.
- [00:35]
Philip Miller
They will buy up the up and comers who are making an impact in order to kind of dilute the brand and extract as much value. It's warfare.
- [00:42]
Camille Moore
You're going to have to do it to get ahead and it's going to be so much more expensive and more complicated later.
- [00:48]
Philip Miller
The people who make those performers money are the people in the nosebleeds.
- [00:53]
Camille Moore
You're not going to get any younger and it's not going to become easier if you don't start tackling it now. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, Brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Well, welcome back to another week of the Art of the Brand. I think we talked about on the last episode that we have a new podcast room. We got our olive tree. That's what we talked about last week.
- [01:16]
Philip Miller
So we're not between two ferns, but there's an olive tree between two.
- [01:21]
Camille Moore
Design is happening slowly because we just got back actually really late last night from San Antonio, Texas. We were speaking with a room full of really driven hair stylists, which is cool to be able to give back and to help small business owners level up on socials.
- [01:38]
Philip Miller
Again, this in the public speaking world, it's so good to speak to people who really want to hustle.
- [01:43]
Camille Moore
Oh, the best.
- [01:44]
Philip Miller
And that's why, like, even in your business, when there is a financial obstacle to cross to grow, it makes makes sure people are committed as opposed to people just been flown out to a talk and they're there for vacation. These people were very committed on their business. It's a really great point and it's amazing to talk to those people because they will do the work.
- [02:03]
Camille Moore
To me, that's like where if I'm going to spend two hours trying to teach you something. Like teach to people to be taught. Right? Like that's why it was so awesome. I would say my takeaway for it for you guys to learn something from that room that I was speaking to. Honestly, it really came down to this is the greatest time to be investing time, money and effort in launching your personal brand and taking your business's socials further. I kind of had an aha moment in the two hour talk. I mean I broke down a lot of things, things that will that are in the course that are in the plan. So if you want more of that like IP for how to build it exists for you to access. But really my aha moment was you really should be investing money right now. Like you should be investing money, time and energy and effort. Because the gap for where like how much more serious business owners are going to be taking social media in the next five to six years, you're going to have to do it to get ahead and it's going to be so much more expensive and more complicated later. Like it's already so much harder now than it was 10 years ago. But we're not moving further away from that because a lot of the questions actually I was talking to the female quotient is like aio, like how to get ahead with artificial intelligent optimization, which is the modern version of SEO. And a lot of that is based off of media searchability and how legit you are.
- [03:34]
Philip Miller
You know, like in the military we always were fixated on our kit. Like you need to have kit that helps you secure the mission, whether it's personal kit or the chopper or whatever the delivery system was. Business is warfare. You have to have the right kit. And the right kit today isn't, you know, pads, papers and all that. You need to have information, right? And so if you're in your business and you're looking at getting ahead, you need to have the right information to succeed. So you can't go into battle at an F1 race with a pinto, you know what I mean? Or an escort. You have to have that strategy.
- [04:07]
Camille Moore
Yeah, you're right.
- [04:08]
Philip Miller
To be able to dominate and win in the digital world. What I wanted to share with the listeners is when it comes to development, there's a lot of charlatans out there that will charge a lot of money for you to scale and to get a coach. But coaching works at a psychological level because if you don't pay for something subconsciously, you don't feel obligated to follow through with it. And so you need to kind of trick yourself to doing what you need to do. So if you pay but then it gets misused by people who want to take your cash. But if you put down 10 grand or 20 grand, you are subconsciously and consciously going to put the time in to get it done. So if you identify you have to do something, pay for the right level of coaching because it'll drastically improve the likelihood of you doing it.
- [04:49]
Camille Moore
Well, that's what that to me was actually exactly. Almost the unlock in the talk. It's funny you picked that up us investing like back when you made us pay for that video team to come in. I can't remember what it was once a month, twice a month. I wish I was documenting that better than world building. Yeah. Like I. Oh man. Like I really. The videos we do and we do and honestly it's a testament to like it feels embarrassing whenever you start and so it, if, if I can tell you that I hope that that makes you feel better because it's real. But that was such a great point is that Philip hired a video team and at the time that was expensive. It wasn't an agency like they were clipping, they were editing, they were showing up. And because there was a cost associated, it was totally that. That psychological paying for a workout class. Right. Where you're more likely to go when you pay the money and put your card down. And a part of the talk that to me that I really wanted to reinforce with you listening is there's a lot of ask for like hey Camille, like will you do like a quick video on like how to edit your cap cut or like will you put that in the course? And the answer is no because that stuff is changing so quickly. But the best use of 15 minutes this week is for you to search on YouTube how to use cap cut or for you to set up a Claude cowork to give you a prompt of like three social media trends or things that are changing on the algorithm for you to be on top of like this mindset of the business owner that the, the this person that's supposed to do socials for you is this great arbitrage. They're cheap, they're young, they've got no other options to, you know, for work and they're just going to make you a boatload of money and they're 21 and they don't know the wiser is a way to think because it's not the way that socials right now the hardest job us to fill in the Agency is a social media coordinator. That role is so valuable. Like, who's looking for creative, who's putting it together. It is not a cheap hire.
- [06:48]
Philip Miller
No, no, it's. It's a, it's a high value, high intellect, creative person. It's not just somebody who couldn't get into a different school and so goes and does like a little marketing babysitting,
- [06:58]
Camille Moore
but instead is going to put together your socials.
- [07:00]
Philip Miller
Not if it's your brand. No, but I wanted to. To say I've struggled with this because, like, I like making content, but because I'm not comfortable with the phone and editing, I don't make as much as I want to. And I was just reflecting on what you're saying. When I am enrolled in a course, like, I love to learn and, and master it.
- [07:20]
Camille Moore
Yeah.
- [07:20]
Philip Miller
But if I'm not in a course and somebody says, hey, look at a YouTube video, I'll do it. But there's so much other stuff to go. And so it's almost like if I was to like, pay to get a video editing course on my phone and it was expensive, I would do it and crush it if there was other people on it. So sometimes I think you have to actually pay for something.
- [07:38]
Camille Moore
No, it's like, why it actually would be easier for me just, you know, to do the course, to sell the course so that you feel like, you know, it's vetted and you're gonna spend the money. But the problem is the unlock for your brain in listening to this is that everybody else, not only that's listening to this, but are in these rooms that we speak and we meet. It is so much. There's so much friction to go and watch that YouTube video on how to edit cap cut. It's why everyone is kind of at the same place of where they're sitting. So if you want to disproportionately ahead, stop, expect. And I think this is a big thing for me this year is I kind of. My brain expects me to do those things after hours, and that's what kills you. But it's actually the best use of the first 15 minutes when you get into the office.
- [08:24]
Philip Miller
Or hour.
- [08:25]
Camille Moore
Or hour. Right. Like, if you start looking at those things differently, that they're going to compound and change how you think and change how you hire and change how you direct and change how you get your dollars out of the people that are working for you. It is the single best use of your time. The problem with marketing to build on this is there's such an opportunity cost to the business that you don't receive because you are so fixated on doing the work. But the problem is all this business that's being potentially referred to you or all of, or that could be finding you online. If your socials are not top notch, they're not picking you. Yes, it sucks and there's a million things to do, but if you change your prioritization because you can get it done in the day, imagine how much more ahead you'll get in 11 months.
- [09:16]
Philip Miller
And for people who are top performers in their field, they don't like feeling not good at something. And the phone, you know, for a lot for Gen X's and some of those people, it's actually like you want to do it, but you don't feel natural at it. So you need to, like, say to yourself, okay, I need to have this phone for me. This is. I'm just revealing this now. I need that phone to feel like my old service pistol. Like, that comfortable where you're doing, like, hours and hours. Like, you need to feel like it's part of you that you can actually edit and move on. It's. I'm saying this from a different generation, actually really hard when you're older to do it because it doesn't seem important. You're just thinking about the emails that need to be answered. You're thinking about all the other stuff,
- [09:53]
Camille Moore
the urgent, immediate, and important.
- [09:55]
Philip Miller
It doesn't seem as important.
- [09:56]
Camille Moore
You know, I think that's a really, a biggest unlock is all these beauty brands are chasing this Hailey Bieber effect. You know, like, Road was sold for a billion dollars. And what a lot of people miss, the. The people that are benchmarking that tend to be older because when you're successful in business, you usually, you know, have a few years under your belt. And what people miss is that Hayley has more of a Gen Z mindset than that kind of Gen X, even millennial, right? Like, I've really had to heavily train myself to think in terms of picking up my phone, creating content, because although I am, I am. I'm not really young anymore. But, like, I'm younger. Like being 30, I still didn't grow up with a cell phone. Right? And I. That's a really relevant point, is that when you didn't grow up with a cell phone, you don't have those years of hours of just programming, of feeling interconnected with your phone. And I am better because I still got a ph. I don't know. Grade. Grade. I mean, we had blackberries and Razors but you didn't have the Internet. My point is, by the time Instagram rolled out when I was in grade nine, so I have more time and more experience than say, you do. But when I look at, like, the Alex Earls, the Hailey Biebers, the Hawk, Earl Pickles, they, their approach to their cell phone is so much more mundane. It's simpler. And that's actually what you need to study when you struggle with it, is see it as a skill to overcome, opposed to, you're not gonna get any younger and it's not gonna become easier if you don't start tackling it.
- [11:21]
Philip Miller
Now, there actually this move that, like, older people now are becoming more valuable because they have context and a greater ability to get things. And so that's an advantage, but it's a wasted advantage if you don't master the phone. So, yeah, the younger people have the phone, but if you master the phone, they can't get what you get.
- [11:39]
Camille Moore
Well, that's the biggest unlock.
- [11:41]
Philip Miller
So, like, so anybody there who's struggling with it, just understand the young people can't get your life experience, can't get your context, your exposure to taste, your ability to solve problems because you've got range of life experience. If you can master the phone will beat them.
- [11:54]
Camille Moore
And you're so right. And I'll add to it, the algorithm loves newness. So the algorithm can only choose from what content exists within it.
- [12:02]
Philip Miller
I can't believe there's not a grandma with like a hundred million views right now. There should be a grandma celebrity, but there should be like a mega grandma.
- [12:09]
Camille Moore
No, there is this one named something Babs, and she's like, kind of from the south, and she does these like, cooking things, and she's like, not quite like 90 grandma, but she's like early 70s, living her best life grandma. And because, you know, grandmas have range. Yeah, I think that was a really good segment. Get into some very quickly pop culture trash headlines. Kevin Hart roast. We watched it. We had some thoughts. Let's make this zeitgeist relevant to give you kind of some pieces to noodle on and consider if you watched it. So, Philip, what were your thoughts on the roast?
- [12:41]
Philip Miller
The roast has kind of become the last vestige where you can actually say funny things, like, real things. Liberals kill comedy because if you're not allowed to offend, you can't be comedy. Comedians are designed to attack people, places and things. And if you can't offend anybody, you generally can't be funny. And that's just. That's evidenced in all comedy, it seems like Netflix is really kind of stretching its legs trying to get things to. Trying to bring people in by. That roast is like, the one place you can go now and get some comedy that's edgy, like, at points, even uncomfortable. But it was a fascinating experience.
- [13:18]
Camille Moore
But I'll tell you why the. The second screen phenomenon is massively increasing the stakes, like, for viewership and for trying to get people. Like, that's why Netflix just did that whole UFC ripoff, right? Of like doing the bringing Fight MMA fighting to its channel. It needs to have extremity when you're fighting another screen, right? Like, and that's that. Like, that's why I think these roasts are becoming these, like, hyper cultural moments that are, like, that are extreme and that are designed to be controversial because people are looking for really extreme settings to be able to break from their cell phone.
- [13:58]
Philip Miller
And it's fast, super fast. Because it's not like a two hour.
- [14:00]
Camille Moore
It actually wasn't. It was three hours. No, it was 2:45.
- [14:03]
Philip Miller
They did a great job of making it seem like putting it together and bringing personalities together. Like politics came in a little bit, which made it feel a bit wonky. But what I would say to our listeners, what I took away from it is if you watch it in the bowl in front of the performers, where are kind of like the elites we're setting, the judgy people who virtue signal their morality to everybody, that's a different audience than the people who paid to be in the cheap seats around the
- [14:30]
Camille Moore
auditorium that wanted the extremity, that wanted the rawness.
- [14:33]
Philip Miller
The people who make those performers money are the people in the nosebleed, not the people who are the first to kind of post a judgment or to sit there and say, I can't laugh at that. I just want people to keep that in mind. Focus on your customers, not the people who are going to judge you for doing something meaningful.
- [14:49]
Camille Moore
So your point to that is understanding who your customer is, which I think is kind of a larger trend right now. And that's. I think, what hurts a lot of business owners is that there is. I really think that's actually the Lululemon store, right? There's people that they think they're speaking to based off of comments and overall kind of like zeitgeist feeling. And then there were their customers, and they lost sight of their customers for trying to be this virtuous company that kind of spoke to everyone and was for everyone and was all things. And by doing kind of both, it ended up speaking to nobody and it's kind of lost its way. Is that how you felt really what you think the roast was in the end?
- [15:35]
Philip Miller
Yeah. Just when you saw Shane Gillis, he's trying to make jokes and he's looking down at people who aren't laughing and there's no response. But you can hear people roaring with laughter in the outside and is a perfect microcosm of what we deal with in business is these judgy people. Like, this is a LinkedIn crowd who's posting every day how proud they are or how something shows how moral they are versus the people who will like, flock to you if you make them feel part of your tribe.
- [15:59]
Camille Moore
I mean, you are 100% correct. And I think that was even some of the feedback is that when you're obviously in conflict or getting a read from like, who you can see and what you can see. And it was like mixed sensations. Cause there was like so much response sensorially. But when you were looking forward and you can only see so far back, that wasn't. That wasn't matching, I would say, for the Kevin Hart roast. What I found interesting in the end is I think the way they set it up, it was really good and you can tell that they felt pressure because Tom Brady was the last one. But comparably, Kevin Hart is a very accomplished person, but there's not much to joke about other than his height and the kind of movies he's in. And I. I do think that you need more plot and more characters. I thought it was kind of odd who they pulled. It didn't really feel like for how big Kevin Hart is in comedy that they brought out that roster. Like, it seemed like. It seems like roast is popular for the people, but it's not popular for the elites. Like, they don't really want to be a part of in case it goes like, it goes wrong and it gets into that cancelable sphere. But I feel like everyone I've spoken to was like, meh, it was fine.
- [17:08]
Philip Miller
Look, it talked Epstein, it talked Saudi Arabia, it talked racism, homosexual homophobia. Like, the only thing it really didn't touch was Islamophobia. But it pretty much, you know, took a shot at every place you're not supposed to go at, which made it very interesting. So it's capturing what's going on in culture.
- [17:25]
Camille Moore
But is it controversial to make a stab at, like, people in Riyadh spending tons of money on comedy? Like, that's also kind of a thing in golf too, that they're like, they have so much money that they can buy up all the talent. Like, that's not really as controversial as. As you're kind of laying it out.
- [17:42]
Philip Miller
There's a soap opera of superstars because some people went to Riyadh for some didn't. Pete Davidson's there. His dad was killed in 9 11. So the jokes go back and forth. Chelsea Handler had an Epstein dinner, but is always criticizing Trump for being on the files, but she went to a dinner. Like, you had all of this.
- [17:58]
Camille Moore
The Diddy stuff was kind of like, I didn't like. He for sure was out there.
- [18:02]
Philip Miller
You had these competing, very emotional things going on that made for great entertainment. So lesson learned is make things interesting.
- [18:09]
Camille Moore
Okay, next headline. I really don't think there's much more branding to talk about, but just worth saying on the show, which is actually hilarious because the team sent it this week and they're like, we don't know if this makes sense for the show, but here we are. So in case you missed it, there was $8.4 million in cocaine found in the latest skims shipment that entered into the US Border. So that's a pretty wild headline.
- [18:31]
Philip Miller
Yeah, I can talk about as a former prosecutor and somebody who's. Who's familiar with moving things across borders and wild. I think people want to use it to kind of throw shade at skims and Kim.
- [18:41]
Camille Moore
No, it has nothing to do with that.
- [18:42]
Philip Miller
It's very. Well, they just want to look at skims like, so the brand. Obviously, there's nobody secretly in the brand doing it. Organized crime elements find things that have high cachet and are considered checked, and then they pay somebody off to put it in there.
- [18:58]
Camille Moore
Totally.
- [18:58]
Philip Miller
So if they're putting it in your shipment, it means that you're a pretty well established, successful brand, because they would assume a brand wouldn't risk that.
- [19:06]
Camille Moore
Yeah, that's what I suspected right away.
- [19:07]
Philip Miller
Yeah, maybe you should have been.
- [19:08]
Camille Moore
I mean, I don't think. I don't think Kim needs to risk her reputation to some cocaine.
- [19:13]
Philip Miller
No, no, it's the people around the team. Somebody inside was getting paid off to put that stuff inside, probably at like,
- [19:20]
Camille Moore
the shipping warehouse or something. That's pretty wild, though. Can you imagine when they got that call? They're like, hey, by the way, you know, I. I believe $8.4 million.
- [19:28]
Philip Miller
That's a lot. This is what I would do if the clothes didn't get. Get taken, whatever that word is, seized. I would auction off the clothes that were in that container.
- [19:37]
Camille Moore
And it's so smart.
- [19:38]
Philip Miller
And you'll have people buying it and
- [19:40]
Camille Moore
kind of, I would totally like to have that memorabilia.
- [19:42]
Philip Miller
Like this is the stuff that actually was in the giant cocaine.
- [19:44]
Camille Moore
She should make a probably a good movie. She should stop focusing on the Calabasas reality TV show and started focusing on.
- [19:50]
Philip Miller
You could just say, okay, we're going to take this shipment of the stuff that wasn't seasoned. We're going to sell it as part of that. Remember? And they should just put like a little white snowflake on every piece for fun.
- [19:58]
Camille Moore
Oh my God. You definitely delivered on that one. Okay, so this is, I been interviewed on this headline, kid you not five times this week by like Vogue, like big publications. So in case you missed it, ever, Sheen purchased Everlane for a hundred million dollars. And this has been the ironic brand headline of the week. Because in case you don't know, Everlane is a clean clothing company. It was started and founded on strong values. It was pre quints. It really kind of kick off this like clean clothing movement before it was really a movement. And it's ironic that that's being sold to one of the largest kind of fast fashion monsters which is obviously Chinese owned Sheen. So this has been the headline that everybody has been wanting to talk about this week. And I just, I don't, I can understand why it's a headline because it is, is extreme and odd. So it gets a click. But past the click, I'm very shocked that this is as like for, for how much media attention it's getting, like for how many interviews requests that I'm being asked for. So let's break this down.
- [21:17]
Philip Miller
The world is short sighted. And what I tell people is even if you make a faux pas, like I often say that when you're canoeing, when you do a paddle, you have that swirl. If you do two more paddles, that swirl just dies behind you. Just keep going in the direction you to want. But what it shows you is that people want to discuss this because at this kind of surface level thinking it's like this is a clean company. This is not a clean company. This shouldn't be happening. This is somehow newsworthy as opposed to if you go like deeper into thinking this is how all businesses operate, like all of the clothing companies, the food companies, like Pepsi is buying all the health, like it's just the way the market works. They will buy up the up and comers who are making an impact in order to kind of dilute the brand extract as much value. It's, it's, it's warfare.
- [22:03]
Camille Moore
Am I off to Think that this is a good sign for many who don't know this. Big conglomerates purchasing what is becoming relevant to the general population is not a new thing. So the tobacco companies, when tobacco was becoming strictly regulated, started purchasing highly processed sugar foods. So like Oreo, like all of those, like sugary cereals, like Post Tobacco went in and bought up all of those brands because as cigarettes which are highly addictive and have a large market cap when they're an addictive substance, as that was becoming regulated and smoking was becoming less cool, they needed to buy something that was also very addictive and would be able to reach the masses. So that became sugary processed foods. In the last few years we've seen Pepsi, among other huge conglomerates spending billions of dollars buying up gluten free and in like healthy foods. Like uh, Pepsi bought poppy for $2 billion. It bought siete for $1.2 billion.
- [23:10]
Philip Miller
I would say over 50% of, of erewhon is now major food conglomerates owning
- [23:14]
Camille Moore
the brand because that's what people want. And so. But what's also interesting is in the article that I wrote on this, I talk about how it's so crazy to me that this point is so controversial to people. So the Maha movement, Make America Healthy Again, which came out during the last election cycle, has been spending a lot money, energy and education to change the awareness around food choices. And the Maha piece, RFK Jr. Was a democratic person.
- [23:48]
Philip Miller
He was an activist lawyer who fought big corporate pharma, corporate and everything. Like he was, he was a good,
- [23:53]
Camille Moore
like he's a principal against Trump. And then he moved in under this auspice of like we're going to have healthy food and have healthy things. I'm not saying like the Maha movement during that election cycle was very powerful and it brought a lot of people from the middle over because there's a health crisis in the United States and a big way to fix that is by changing the health, the food choices. And then the Maha movement ended up expanding into clean clothing, into like beauty and to overall toxicity. And it doesn't matter if you're a Republican, that education entered more largely into the zeitgeist and it changed buying behavior.
- [24:31]
Philip Miller
There's an economy of scale. So a lot of people can't buy these clean clothing because it's just priced too much like we were talking about it, right?
- [24:37]
Camille Moore
Yes.
- [24:38]
Philip Miller
And when a big company buys it, if they stay true to the principles of the brand, they can now produce that clothing a little cheaper and then expand the availability. So on one hand it's good. But what I think we're missing in society, and I know you're going to talk about it, is we don't really have the investigative journalists or the people who can hold the corporations accountable to make sure that they're actually delivering the clean ingredients once they buy. You know what I mean? But like, because I'd love to be able to wear only clean clothing or everybody to wear only clean clothing. It's, it's not affordable for most people. So this could translate into more affordability and move that zeitgeist momentum to make most clothes a little bit cleaner.
- [25:16]
Camille Moore
What I think is really interesting about this. So ultimately the reason why Shein is purchasing Everlane is that it's become gen pop relevant to be making better choices, underscore better choices. Not elite premium organic, super expensive erewhon choices, but better choices. And the reason why this is relevant is like there's a, there's a butterfly effect, there's a rippling effect of when something takes, takes hold during an election cycle where, where most of a country is listening to or at least receiving from. And even if you're not on the Republican side, Trump and RFK Jr. They won. So there was a lot of amplification around this, this messaging and how does that trickle down? You're now seeing people objectively. There is so much consumer behavior and data around it. It' Pepsi and Coca Cola are buying cleaner brands because people are making underscore better.
- [26:10]
Philip Miller
Nobody wants to drink Pepsi and Coca Cola.
- [26:12]
Camille Moore
Less people at right, because, because people are talking about social media. Access to the phone is what changed it.
- [26:18]
Philip Miller
No, your example of tobacco buying food, Pepsi buying organic, like that's just the migration. The beauty of it is is we as a population can actually make trends through digital media. We can actually create more.
- [26:31]
Camille Moore
We can amplify and respond to things so much faster. And it's no longer a political thing.
- [26:35]
Philip Miller
The past, it was just delivered through supply channels. You had commercials. We couldn't affect the market. Now the consumer can affect the market.
- [26:42]
Camille Moore
So my point to that is, and it's so funny that this happened this past week because I happened to be having a conversation with my sister in law and she is a middle class, she's an, she's in insurance and she was explaining to me how she would love to be able to buy clean clothing. She's super educated in this stuff. She's using social media to like research and find better choices. She's a little cash strapped based on her, you know, her income bracket than having Young kids. And her exact words to me was, I follow a lot of these clean influencers and I look at their shop, my links and I can't justify or an organic, an organic t shirt at $150American. And as a Canadian, that's like 165. With shipping, you're getting to 170. And when you have young kids that are growing, they can't justify that price point. So what is Sheen doing? Shein is a massive conglomerate that like all massive conglomerates want continued hockey stick growth. There's a limit to in which you can do that when you're perpetually recycling trends and you've been selling it at a cheap rate and you've been doing this for years. The next market to grow into is to purchase the supply chain and distribution from Everlane, a failing company so that you can add clean alternatives into the market at a cheaper price point.
- [28:00]
Philip Miller
If I'm on the board of Target or Walmart, Walmart, I'm very upset that we didn't do this right. And then create. And you guys should call us because you should actually make a campaign to make clean clothing affordable.
- [28:13]
Camille Moore
Yeah.
- [28:13]
Philip Miller
And you can drive a lot of moms who want to take care of their kids but can't afford to do this.
- [28:18]
Camille Moore
Moms that want better choices for their
- [28:19]
Philip Miller
kids and for them.
- [28:21]
Camille Moore
And that's why when you were saying like you don't like that these big companies that they make it imperfect, but imperfection is a fine alternative to nothing. And like there's nothing in the market servicing that person who's looking for better
- [28:34]
Philip Miller
choices, choices, purists can interfere with growth because if you, if you insist on pureness of everything, you can't grow. You need kind of micro step growth to get you where you want to go.
- [28:44]
Camille Moore
And the next question that people are asking, they're like, well, what do you think about the brand? And I'm like, truthfully, I don't really care because Sheen isn't a brand focused brand. The whole point is that they rip off a trend and because they've got insane manufacturing, they can see a photo on the Internet, recreate it with their AI based design labs and have it printed it out the door with AI ads in the next week. And they win based off speed of market and ripping off designs that other people have done. That's why people hate Sheen. But the issue is that Sheen doesn't really have a brand.
- [29:18]
Philip Miller
But who hates Sheen? The people who don't buy from Sheen.
- [29:21]
Camille Moore
Well, that's what I mean.
- [29:22]
Philip Miller
Like when they say people hate Sheen.
- [29:24]
Camille Moore
Like, when I'm getting interviewed by McVogue, we're not the customer. You know, like, Sheen is doing extremely well. They by recycling trends to people who live on the Internet and want a cheap alternative and don't care that it's polyester. There's an entire world that doesn't exist to people who are on the pulse of, like, daily headlines with Vogue and business of fashion. Like, that's what this world is for. And that's why I'm like, I don't think it's bad. Everlane is a failing country.
- [29:51]
Philip Miller
Why it's important to media is so that everybody can show outrage.
- [29:54]
Camille Moore
Yeah.
- [29:54]
Philip Miller
And, like, honestly, outrage bores the F out of me. But in the media world, it's like, oh, let's show outrage. Let's get some media to. To talk about how this is not good. Like, you can get, like, a little churn in the day. Right. That's why your interviews, when I listen to them, were actually very thoughtful. I could even see in some cases, people are like, oh, this is. This is actually an interesting.
- [30:11]
Camille Moore
I was expecting a purist approach on brand. And I'm like, well, she ain't no purist approach on brand, my friends. And Everlane. So the other thing that's really interesting, we can move on from this headline just to give you all of the facts so that you sound super smart this weekend at your cocktail party. Everlane was. Was created during the kind of that Obama era of brands that came out of New York that were values based. A lot of these founders came from, like, J.P. morgan, Oregon or different, like, private equity banking backgrounds. They left this log. They disagreed with that kind of work ethic and approach, and they went and incubated and created their own brands. This is like the Allbirds era, the Casper era. And they created these brands that were focused on values first and they were made for profit. And the founder had an amazing exit. He exited Everlane, he went and started a drink company. He got into, like, a magnesium electrolytes. And the private equity firms that bought them, the majority being El Catron, which is the LVMH private equity firm, took it over. The founder left. They didn't. They. There was no scalability for the brand when the founder was gone. It was. It was an idea. And ideas don't scale without clear standard operating procedures and a clear foundation and a clear structure. And then competitors like Quince entered into the market and took the opportunity that Everlane, Everlane entered in with. And because Quince owned it was direct it like they owned the entire supply chain. So they owned like the factory relationship and it goes straight out to the customer. Whereas Berlane didn't. The company was like, was bleeding cash. They didn't know who their position was anymore. They were trying to go after these theories and more stylish brands while being clean, which didn't work because that's not what they needed to be in the market. And the private equity company wanted to stop the bleed and they sold it off. And there was few people that wanted to purchase a dying business for basically parts.
- [31:55]
Philip Miller
Again, lesson learned for some of our listeners who are in that kind of smaller to medium size acquisitions when we're doing scaling is one of the best ways to scale. And so you always want to have your eye on products or markets that can support what you're doing. And acquisitions actually work. We hear about the big ones doing it. But if you're at that medium size, sometimes intelligent acquisitions can really help you scale.
- [32:18]
Camille Moore
Aligned all the way. So next headline here is. This is crazy. TikTok shop just became bigger than Target and Costco's E Com sales with their Q1 revenue being $4.98 billion. This means you need to stop ignoring TikTok Shop as it's no longer socials. It is social commerce.
- [32:40]
Philip Miller
A little context. I was around when Amazon started. Amazon started selling books.
- [32:46]
Camille Moore
Good. Thank you.
- [32:47]
Philip Miller
Like, it just sold books. And I love books. So I loved Amazon. I was like, okay, this is books. Bezos wanted to prove that he could inventory enough of a product to distribute it in a way that was profitable once he did. I remember when Amazon started selling coffee makers. I'm like, why is there a coffee maker on my special book place? But they kind of proved a concept. I had no idea. I wish I could have invested what they were going to end up doing with their distribution channel, which are giant warehouses. What I see with TikTok shop now is a potential competitor to Amazon, but with democratized distribution channels, it doesn't have to have. It doesn't have to have huge warehouses. It just has to have good content and. And then they distribute it from the. From the actual business owner. It's actually potentially changed the whole landscape of E commerce.
- [33:32]
Camille Moore
Yeah, it is genius. And it's. But there's also aspects to it that are worth talking about because I've been really bullish on TikTok shop and we have had a lot of clients that are on it and I've. I've consulted and worked with a lot of the top sellers on TikTok shop and there I love that you brought up kind of more where it's going than where it is because there's TikTok Shop and there's live shopping through the TikTok platform because over. So TikTok Shop is the integration through TikTok in which you can shop. And it's the first social platform that's integrated this in a way that is really the most like QVC that we've ever seen. So TikTok shop as an integration is when people create content and it can be linkable and shoppable through the content so that you can click to buy. There's also the component of live shopping, which is a tool through TikTok that allows you to leverage TikTok shop capabilities through a live format. And I'm pretty bullish on both of them. But there are kinks that TikTok needs to iron out because it's been first to market and for whatever reason Meta isn't aggressively competing. And a few things to cover is one is amazing for late night impulse purchases. It's amazing for late night impulse purchases. So where TikTok shop is really working is things that are like sub $150 really focus on transformation. Like you can see something instantly happening through the video because the way that the products proliferate is that you have creators that are strong at creating content do the selling for you.
- [35:10]
Philip Miller
I wonder if there's going to be like QVC channels that kind of operate on TikTok shop or they try to build something where you can kind of, you know what I'm saying?
- [35:18]
Camille Moore
Well, that's kind of, that's interesting because that's really what the live shopping model has become. So the problem with the live shopping component is, and I say a problem with an asterisk so that you've got a full picture of what's happening on that platform is that it's, it's really structured like a QVC channel. So the brands that are killing it on TikTok shop, they're really focusing on having like a built out production room where different creators come into the room and they have like their own selling hour. So let me try to, let me pretend I'm selling this Saga lip gloss. So I would come on for an hour and it would be the Camille Moore spot in this room and I would sell this lip gloss and I would do all of this selling and then when my hour is up, I leave the room and the next seller comes in. And then Philip Miller is now in Charge of selling the lip balm. The reason why that's a bit complicated is it's like it's it for the brands, the, the brands that are doing it, they're investing big and they're really.
- [36:16]
Philip Miller
Actually I would sell this self defense pen, not a lip balm, just so you're aware.
- [36:19]
Camille Moore
All right, well I didn't have that in my hand. So the thing that's complicated with TikTok shop is that it's not scalable right now. So brands that are at the top of the live shopping, they're investing in production studios that are bringing these basically sellers into the space and they're taking their own sales slots and then they get a percentage of revenue. And the sellers that are the best, there's actually emerging schools for teaching people to be amazing live shoppers. Because to sell well on TikTok it's actually more weird than normal. So you need to do like extreme things like pouring slime on yourself or like making like getting people to stop the scroll and for it to be interesting. But what's complicated complicated, which is unlike more of the Asian live shopping model is in the Asian live shopping model you can have a ton of different phones and someone's trying to catch the algorithm. It's almost like a slot machine that like one of the ones will catch the algorithm and that one will go viral. TikTok has, has barred that. So you're only like your account can only have one live stream at a time which means you're only able to sell within the parameter of what that stream can sell. And that's why a lot of brand are hesitant because it's a high cost to bring on people to sell and to switch it up every hour. Like it's a hard job for one person for an eight hour day to just be selling. Unless you're like famous or you do what Skims did, which is like make it a variety show format. So the point of what I was saying of like it's like QVC right now. But what's complicated is QVC had QVC stories school, right? And they had a structure and they have like a storyline and they have visuals and they have a format that the buyer and they know that the next 30 minutes the product is going to change. Right now it's just each feed is selling the product and there's a cap to how much you can sell of the product.
- [38:11]
Philip Miller
Why did you say it's hard to brand build on TikTok shop if they're doing so much sales?
- [38:15]
Camille Moore
Because it's really tied to like late night impulse buying. So people are seeing an influencer that creates a video that shows like putting on this eye cream and like half their eye, all of the bags go away and then the other half of the eye, the bags are there because it's hitting them often late at night and it's like a sub $100 purchase. People are impulse buying these products but it's not building your brand. So the piece that's complicated is that TikTok shop operates off of giving you a better price than you can get anywhere else. So like discount pricing, bundle pricing and creator content dependent so the brand has less control on how the product is showing up. And it's a big expense for brands because if you're not only are you spending money on the inventory because you're gifting it to an army of an affiliates to do content, but when one of the pieces hit on TikTok shop, you're often boosting that piece of content as an ad and you've discounted the product to drive down the price. And the reason why you would typically do all of those things things is to capture a new audience and hope to buy second or third or fourth order purchases. Right. Like you're going to discount in the beginning to build a brand because for most people that are doing this, they might not want a discount. Do you get what I'm saying?
- [39:36]
Philip Miller
I used to watch those commercials for the, the chopping thing, the Ginsey.
- [39:42]
Camille Moore
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [39:43]
Philip Miller
And so they kind of are a brand but they all kind of fell under the mage for TV store.
- [39:48]
Camille Moore
Yeah, right.
- [39:49]
Philip Miller
It was like provide something very useful and practical that people will say I need it now and they'll buy. They don't need a brand to buy it.
- [39:57]
Camille Moore
Okay, but let me compare those two examples. If you were watching Slap Chop late at night on qvc, it would often be the founder who had to be trained by the QVC speaking school, who explains the story, who gives demonstrations, who talks about all the ways to use it and then there's some kind of an offer that makes it better valuable. You're still storytelling for the brand and giving brand awareness. Magic Bullet built a very successful business off of that model. Same with like the Slap chop, et cetera. Dr. H. What I'm talking about on TikTok shop is it's not the founder creating that content and giving that storyline experience. It's someone that is like, like freaking out because the Stanley cup like straw stopper is like incredible and you can flip it upside down and it doesn't
- [40:43]
Philip Miller
spill, but it makes it almost more authentic. Even though it's not because they're paid, but it makes it. It's not the founder trying to sell you something, it's somebody who you trust telling you why. It's amazing.
- [40:53]
Camille Moore
You're right. The caveat though to this is the way that the TikTok shop is being sold online is that you need to have an army of like 3,000 affiliates. So it's harder to control that with now how it's being like, it's, it's becoming a bit more flooded. I guess my point is you need to be on TikTok shop because it's no longer a social media. It's where, it's where digital e comm is going. And your example with Amazon is intelligent because you want to be ahead of a curve. You don't want to, you don't want to be behind it for when it's very expensive to enter into that space. People see it as like a sure win. And you need to be aware of the economics and how it's being structured because it really works for a brand like Lemmy that has discoverability and distribution into premium retailers like Erewhon and then more general mass market retailers like target. So the TikTok shop plays into an omnichannel strategy for brands who are looking for like a quick. When TikTok shop isn't brand building, if you're a new brand and you can't afford those other, those other areas. Do you get what I'm saying? Like it's, it's a buzzword. You need to be aware of TikTok shop, but there are also nuances to it that you should be also aware of.
- [42:07]
Philip Miller
It's just democratized access to distribution channels. Through TikTok shop. You get access more people than you can trying to go through a normal distribution channel. So it makes good sense for people who are startups trying to get, trying to make an impact.
- [42:18]
Camille Moore
It does. And especially if you've got like a really cheap product right, where you can do like heavy gifting. And it's not as much about brand building, it's about pushing inventory. Like that's the only component. It's like if you're really hyper focused on brand building, it's a harder channel to brand build on at the current moment.
- [42:33]
Philip Miller
Cool.
- [42:33]
Camille Moore
Cool. All right, drake. So our six God has literally broke the streaming Internet by dropping three albums, 43 songs instead of his over his super hyped one album release. Now I think we got a lot of chat about on brand strategy. There was a video that came out that speaks to the that the reason why this was done was less for this to be a super strategic marketing play, but that Drake is under a very strict deal with Universal Music Group that he wants to get out of that he had signed to 2022 and the reason why he released so many songs is that it allows him more quickly get out of that deal and it's going to tank the stock of Universal Music Group. Is the, is the reason why he did these three?
- [43:25]
Philip Miller
Yeah, but that's, that's the boring part of the story. Like who cares? So he did something to get out of a contract, right? Like obviously he's not going to say that. Somebody points it out, you know, what's the silhouette to that? Yeah, who cares? What I think is interesting is the activation he tried to do in Toronto to draw attention to it. What were you thought? What were your thoughts of this ice structure? Bury the release date in the ice and ask people to try and chip their way in. Like did you think that was a good activation or a bad activation?
- [43:53]
Camille Moore
Safety aside, it, I think everything that Drake did for this was world building and it was novel. Like in a music context. He transformed how people anticipated streaming music. What they showed up for, what they saw. He made history in that way. I think it's good, you know, considering he redid the CN Tower. He had this, you know, he had people that showed up with blowtorches and pickaxes like to figure out the release date. But it was also kind of staged where someone came out and like said it was going to be on May 15th. I think it's good. I think it was good. It worked. I see people all over the world talking about the album. I mean like Spotify literally crashed because people were trying to like access three albums and 43 songs at the same time. So it was a huge download on energy.
- [44:43]
Philip Miller
Yeah, I think, I think it was a good clown show. Like one. Okay. Releasing all those things from a contractual perspective is gonna get you attention. The question is it long lasting attention or is it a flash in the pan? But it was almost Mr. Beasting. Like I'm not a fan of Drake and I have to be careful cause the last time I criticized the Canadian musical icon I got 10,000 negative comments about paper. So. But I think Drake is maybe used to write some good songs. I think it's auto tuned. I think most of it's garbage. And I think what that showed, it showed that he's moving into clown Stuff celebrity, where you put a giant icebox and you hide the release date, which you know, and then you have people try to hack their way into it so they could deliver it to his house so he would know, like, it's all. This is what we were talking about last week, that kind of fake controversy versus authentic. Now, you compare that to the Beatles playing a song illegally on the rooftop in la, or Michael Jackson going to the favelas and getting all of the gangs to provide him security. That is our authentic music world building. This is an orchestra. This is a circus of. I'm going to put a big ice block. They had a lot of money and people are going to come and do nonsense. Like, to me, it just shows us how far we've gone. It might make him money, but to me, I think it hurts his brand. I think it makes him look clownish. I don't get any sense that he's a musical genius. If I was advising him on how to build his brand as a musical legend, it would not be putting a giant ice block in a parking lot and have people try to hack their way in. It sounds like a reality show.
- [46:13]
Camille Moore
I don't know if that was a mic drop. I don't argue with Sunshine.
- [46:16]
Philip Miller
It was garbage.
- [46:17]
Camille Moore
It objectively wasn't garbage. I mean, he.
- [46:20]
Philip Miller
Like a Marvel movie. There's no creativity. It's just a lot of money, smoke and mirrors and people pay attention.
- [46:25]
Camille Moore
But I think that the who the customer is is relevant to this. Right? Like, who the customer is. The city absolutely responded. They bought in.
- [46:34]
Philip Miller
Everyone was upset, the police were upset, they tried to shut it down.
- [46:38]
Camille Moore
But like, the city, as a consumer was not upset. Yeah, the people. Like, the people.
- [46:43]
Philip Miller
Well, I think some people went there to make content. That might be it, but I don't think most people were that interested.
- [46:48]
Camille Moore
But I.
- [46:48]
Philip Miller
But that's like, why am I going to an ice block with something hidden in it that the person who put it in there knows the date on there? Like, it's almost like. It's almost like you should. Everybody who went there is either not that intelligent or is just trying to use Drake to make some content because there was nothing interesting about the activation.
- [47:06]
Camille Moore
But that is the core point, though, of world building. Like, if it's to get people to create content and to create a buzz of it on social media, he achieved that aim. Like, could it have been better? Could it have been more interesting? Sure, but it was within the realm of at least how people should be thinking. Like, it was world building.
- [47:25]
Philip Miller
Yes, but that's that's art, right? The difference between amazing branding and Amazing art is 5%. Right. Like is it the difference between an amazing Coppola movie and a Marvel? You know, yes, you're making a movie, you're world building. The question is are you doing it well? Are you building, are you building a world that's going to be memorable, that has legs or are you undermining your brand by doing too much green green screen?
- [47:51]
Camille Moore
Like I understand what you're saying. Drake's for like the, his two kind of breakout albums. Like how good that music was. It was a religious anthem. Like you can like those songs play everywhere in Toronto and like the rest of the world since kind of hotline bling. I, I do think it's, it's kind of that story of like you made it and it becomes less great. Which I would unpopularly say also was a Taylor Swift story. But I think for where his brand is now and where it's existed within the last few, it is more comparable to a Marvel movie than it is to you saying that this is like the Godfather. You know, like his movies have. His albums as movies. Analogies have have quite slipped from that standard. So I think that it makes sense for who is that loyal and die hard fan.
- [48:43]
Philip Miller
Everybody has their own strategy to get to where they want to go.
- [48:46]
Camille Moore
Well, would love to hear your advice. That was like, that was a hot, hot, hot, hot take. So I want to talk about Gucci because Gucci did a cruise show this past week week that really, really did quite well on the Internet. I was going to say break the Internet, but I'm going to, I'm going to reserve that phrase for when that phrase is, is honest and it's worth talking about because Gucci has been on the decline for several years and it makes up over 40% of Kering's portfolio. And what Gucci has really leaned into over the last few years is world building. And they used this cruise show as an opportunity of. To really stand out where they could in fashion. And I think it's a, it's an interesting case study to learn from cruise show. So all of the designer brands, they do these cruise collections literally C R U I S E like a cruise boat. And the reason why they do these capsules is that historically this high net worth person is vacationing during the summer. Right? The summer months are vacation months and you offer like a more of a resort wear collection. So it's not their summer collection but it's stuff designed more for like yachting or Being at resorts and typically, it's usually a really kind of a nothing moment for luxury brands because it's a small capsule, and it's a small moment. And they do so much at these fashion weeks. And Gucci, I think, set a new standard, by the way, that they did this show. So to give you some. Some deets, they did it in New York City, and they did it in New York City, and they. Which is interesting because Demna is now the creative director for Gucci, and he's really kind of going back to these different versions or mo moments of Gucci. And everyone that was invited to the show didn't know where the show was going to be. So they were sent a key, and the key was actually to their original New York location that open in 1953. And they got. They basically, everything was crumbs. And the event was right, like, right downtown New York city. They had 51 billboards that were all being, like, digitally streaming the event. It created a ton of crowds. They had Tom Brady walk the Runway in, like, a full leather look, which you would think would be cheesy, but actually really worked.
- [50:55]
Philip Miller
I think he looks like Lego Tom Brady. I thought he looked ridiculous.
- [50:59]
Camille Moore
He's like, honestly, so overdone. It's like, it looks like a clone Tom Brady.
- [51:02]
Philip Miller
It looks like a Lego head. Like, this is too pretty.
- [51:04]
Camille Moore
Like, we want him to be less pretty. Like we want rugged Tom.
- [51:07]
Philip Miller
Yeah, I don't know what the heck is that?
- [51:08]
Camille Moore
Not pretty boy Tom. But yes, you're not wrong.
- [51:11]
Philip Miller
It's like he's right out of Zoolander. It was like, literally a character in Zoolander.
- [51:14]
Camille Moore
Literally. But what was cool about it is that. So anyways, it was like a really well done show, but the show started with ads from Gucci of fake Gucci products. So they did, like, a Gucci hotel. They did Gucci pets. They had, like, a Gucci fitness line. Like, it was all. It was world building. It was suggesting of, like, what a Gucci world would look like, which is exactly what they did in the Tiger. Right. So the reason I want to talk about this is caring talked about this in its financial. In its projections that they were very much looking forward to this cruise event because of what they had had planned. And it shows you that brands are looking to disproportionately blow up moments that garner attention. And why we're talking so much about world building is wherever you are or wherever you're showing up, how do you do something that allows someone to enter into a world and to provide an opinion and to create a social moment. That is the world that we're living in now. And I'm wondering with what Gucci just did in for the show, how is that? Is it. Are we now setting a standard that every small moment within these brand houses are going to become these massive productions in these massive shows?
- [52:29]
Philip Miller
I just want to say listeners, like, if you're listening to the podcast next week, you should have a drinking game where you have to drink every time we say world.
- [52:35]
Camille Moore
I agree. It's something that we have to be thinking about. It is the biggest shift because content has become. When I think about why all these brands are doing these collabs, like even Swatch and ap, like how successful that that launch was since we talked about on the last week's, like, there was brawls, there was crazy fights, there was huge lines. It's being sold for a 265% markup on StockX.
- [53:00]
Philip Miller
It's like we live in a world of simulation of like fabric constructed moments.
- [53:05]
Camille Moore
Yes fights.
- [53:06]
Philip Miller
Like if everybody looks like we're living in this, in the simulation, like it looks like we're moving more into major sims shit. My take just. I love a scavenger hunt. Again, I don't know if you ever did a scavenger hunt through a city where you get all these tools. But like, it would be cool from a. It sounds like kind of from a world building. Imagine if you had a scavenger hunt and the first hundred people who got in got to get in. And imagine people going around trying to get clues and you popped it up on a billboard and you found it. Like you could actually create some. A very fun but cool moment.
- [53:34]
Camille Moore
Totally.
- [53:35]
Philip Miller
And you know, the first 500 people could get into the event and then it was closed. Like, that competitive element would be hilarious.
- [53:41]
Camille Moore
I also have to tell you too that after the show they had a party and at the party they had Alex Earl on a treadmill in heels. So like when you were coming in, like, Alex Earl is kind of like running, you know, and like it even kind of just speaks to like it. It really shows you that they were trying to construct a social moment by leveraging someone that is like such a social moment. Like in this time.
- [54:06]
Philip Miller
Like, I know, but what I. We probably all struggle with it. Like we're creating social moments by just combining lots of social things together. But what weaves it all together? Like a good story has like something that holds it together. Like a good brand has something that you can understand. It's not. If you just Constantly go vibe and like, you know, social excitement points. Like you're not. Are you really building your brand or are you just trying to like turn your excitement level to 11?
- [54:34]
Camille Moore
That is the hard part about this job is that I need to analyze a relevant headline that everyone can go search and they can go connect with so that they can study the signals of how to apply it to a brand that's. That's going to have significantly less money and just overall resources and someone like Gucci can. But the core point that I'm trying to. To take away is where Gucci is placing its bets to get ahead because it's been failing for eight consecutive quarters. Is focusing on building a world. And to your point, if storyline, like there's a storyline to what's the world. The world for Gucci is tapping into this kind of underground American kind of like rat race. Like that was the theme of this show and there was all these like crumbs and you had the whole. The show starting with ads from Gucci for brands that don't exist within Gucci was. It was starting the tone of people are entering into almost this Gucci play, right? Like it was like you've now entering into this Gucci world where we've got Gucci pets and these Gucci hotels and these Gucci brands that don't exist. And, and it when you. And to the point where like this show has all these people coming through and then you end the show with going to this party and you have these cre. Like it just it what your takeaway is. Don't focus on the flash and the noise. Focus on the storyline. And what Gucci is doing is it has to have so much flash and noise because it needs to get people to pick it up to post it on socials.
- [56:01]
Philip Miller
But they are focusing on quiet luxury too. I just don't know what the storyline is.
- [56:04]
Camille Moore
I would not. Gucci's quite luxury.
- [56:06]
Philip Miller
No, but I'm saying there is that right? Like, but if you just pay a lot of money like we see people all the time pay a lot of money to get celebrities there, you get traction. What's the brand?
- [56:14]
Camille Moore
Well, you're going to be annoying on this next one too because I wanted to talk about Alo. So Alo chartered this crazy mega yacht and they had it. I'm so pissed. We were supposed to be on the yacht to film the podcast but we, we. We didn't get aligned. It was. They're at the Cans film festival. We're going to can Cannes lions and, and I thought it was sweet that they thought that we'd be official press at the Cannes Film Festival, so just manifestation exercise there.
- [56:41]
Philip Miller
But the press at the Cannes Lions Festival.
- [56:45]
Camille Moore
Yeah.
- [56:46]
Philip Miller
So if you're there, come say hello. We're going to be filming some content and some podcasts.
- [56:49]
Camille Moore
Yeah. Let us know if you're going to be there, if your brand has an event. Because we're, you know, always down to show up and support. But Alo chartered a yacht and they've been.
- [56:58]
Philip Miller
No, they own a yacht, don't they?
- [56:59]
Camille Moore
We don't own. For certain. I know for certain that they've at
- [57:02]
Philip Miller
least said aloe on the.
- [57:03]
Camille Moore
Yeah, well, I mean, that could be vinyl stickers.
- [57:05]
Philip Miller
Sure.
- [57:06]
Camille Moore
That's. That's actually kind of what I wanted to talk about because I knew you were going to be annoying about this. You're going to be like, oh, my God, they buddy up. What can you learn from that? Well, sir does not sound like what. I mean, for sure. What it. What it signals is you have to do these big and bold things so that you can get. You can get reach on the algorithm. That's the signal to learn from this, is that what Aloe is doing to separate itself from the Lululemons, the Adenolas of the world, is to signal that they are the premium activewear brand by doing things that are crazy big, that allow. Like shooting content on the Aloe yacht is different for the algorithm. Like seeing Pilates instructors working out in celebs in, like, all Aloe outfits on the yacht is new. That's new. Don't argue with me on that.
- [57:52]
Philip Miller
I think what Lululemon should do is create a reality show of unhoused people wearing Lululemons, like, on the streets. Like, that might be their aversion of war.
- [57:59]
Camille Moore
Oh, my God, Philip.
- [58:00]
Philip Miller
But she.
- [58:02]
Camille Moore
God. Oh, my God. I can't. Honestly, guys, I can't. I don't even know what's going to come in his mouth.
- [58:06]
Philip Miller
Now. The yacht. I see the yacht as a production studio. I see, like, in a world where you need to get content, you need to produce content. Produce in a production studio. You buy a yacht. That's a lot. That's too much that everybody wants to come into. And then you. You bring people on if they make content. So they essentially have a mobile production studio where influencers and creators can come on and make content.
- [58:28]
Camille Moore
About Alo, we were speaking to a really smart person that said often when these companies get so big, they purchase assets in order to maintain so they don't have to pay so much in taxes. And I do think it's smart for that reason because if they chartered it for that time and then they can make money off of it by renting it out or by the owners being able to use it, whatever, that's super smart. But the, the point of where I want to stretch on this is you have to. Whatever is within your realm of doing something crazy, you have to do crazy because you need to stand out and be unique on the Internet. So if you're connected to like, let's make this up a local hockey team or someone owns or you can ask, you know, Eva, I mean, this is a crazy statement, but like there's a train that's like in your local town. Like, ask them if you can like borrow it to like make it like, like redo it. Like if you actually analyze the aloe photos, outside of the tax implication that I just said, it's actually they just embroidered towels, they got vinyl stickers that they can stick on stuff. It's really not that, that complicated. And that's what Swan Beauty did for acquired styles. Bachelorette is like, it was like this big thing on the Internet because this beauty company that no one had heard completely tricked out this private yacht and flew these two influencer girls on their Bachelorette. But when you actually really look at it, I mean, who knows if they paid for the chart or whatever, but to get some pillows embroidered and you know, to get some cookies in the shape of your logo for them to post the on their stories is really not that high of a lift. But because it's like, it's, it's, it's algorithmically interesting, they got a big lift.
- [60:06]
Philip Miller
It's hard to buy creative. And I think for our listeners, I think alo having that yacht, it's good for, for their visibility, but at the micro level, for the people who are doing it like you. One thing I took from your talk when you were talking to these hairdressers about collabs is, you know, you have to think out of the box. If just in this example, if you're a hairdresser and a media medium sized town, do they have an AHL hockey team? Do they have a semi pro baseball team? Can you invite the wives of the players, the girlfriends in? Can you collab with people who have shared values in your area to make an impact? I love your idea of using a train or renting a big Mercedes sprinter van and putting a wrap on it. Think out of the box on how you can get people to pay attention to your brand. By working with people who have shared values. But that can creative is the new
- [60:55]
Camille Moore
currency in the future and spend to expose your brand. Right. Like I think that's the like the problem is a lot of this stuff is table stakes. Like you have to have a strong organic in feed social strategy but you also have to do things that amplify it so that people are seeing your in feed organic strategy. And that's by talking about the Gucci show is relevant is I didn't go and buy any of their products but I'm thinking about Gucci. I'm talking about Gucci and they invested during a time where they it was a low price attention. It's harder for them to compete during during fashion weeks but they can compete during cruise when no one is focusing. People really liked the pieces. The controversy around the Demna Gucci is that he's recreating pretty much the Tom Ford Gucci era. So it's not his own version. It's a recreation of something that was and we're not in the Tom Ford Gucci era anymore. So it's a bit costume esque. But I will say this show almost everyone that I respect to in the the industry although they said Jonathan Anderson Dior show was like tastefully better from like a clothing perspective Gucci really landed and they really understood that like social zeitgeist which at the end of the day when you're thinking about that that true customer, not the fleeting customer that comes in and buys you know one Gucci bag because they got a a bonus or a promotion or they're you know cutting corners it that that core person they're deciding to buy these brands based on what feels hot, what seems interesting and that's what these brands have to compete on. Which if you look at yourself at a smaller level what can you take from them to apply at your budget.
- [62:30]
Philip Miller
Interesting.
- [62:30]
Camille Moore
Yeah.
- [62:31]
Philip Miller
Great topics.
- [62:32]
Camille Moore
Amazing.
- [62:32]
Philip Miller
Happy to be back.
- [62:33]
Camille Moore
Happy to be back. And I will say that that talk really inspired me for us to do our own talk and to start bringing people together.
- [62:41]
Philip Miller
I got to move city to city because you tried to force so much in two hours and they wanted it. They almost they didn't want to leave after the talk. But I think if people actually invested in a full day workshop on that it would transform their business.
- [62:54]
Camille Moore
I know we're going to plan that. We're going to make that happen.
- [62:56]
Philip Miller
Tell us where we should do it.
- [62:57]
Camille Moore
I love that stuff. Well, have an amazing week everybody and speak to you soon.