Your Brand’s Too Polite: Why Being Neutral Is Costing You HUGE.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Art of the Brand Episode: Your Brand’s Too Polite: Why Being Neutral Is Costing You HUGE
Release Date: May 16, 2025
Hosts: Camille Moore and Phillip Millar
Description:
In this episode of The Art of the Brand, Camille Moore and Phillip Millar dive deep into the pitfalls of overly polite branding and the dangers of neutrality in today’s volatile market. They explore how brands can become irrelevant by avoiding bold stances and the crucial role of authenticity and creativity in building resilient brands.

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1. Introduction to the Episode's Themes

Camille and Phillip kick off the episode by setting the stage for a transformative discussion on branding in the age of AI and social consciousness. They emphasize their commitment to challenging conventional marketing wisdom and providing actionable insights for founders and CEOs.

[00:00] A: "Entire swaths of industries are going to be wiped out for how fast AI is moving."

2. AI, Creativity, and the Future of Marketing Jobs

The hosts discuss the disruptive impact of AI on marketing jobs, citing a statistic that 60% of marketing positions are at risk within the next 18 months. They analyze how AI tools like ChatGPT are automating creative tasks, potentially rendering large marketing agencies obsolete.

[00:48] A: "All of the messaging we've been getting the last 10 years, especially to some of the younger generations, be fragile, feel like you're entitled."

[10:52] B: "I think you should be spending two hours a day on ChatGPT or the language learning model to learn it."

3. The Importance of Personal Branding in an AI-Driven World

Camille and Phillip highlight the increasing necessity for individuals to build personal brands to maintain credibility and relevance. They argue that as AI takes over routine tasks, creativity and personal authenticity become the new currency.

[07:19] B: "I think why you're so in demand is people now know you as a human and they want to work with your brand."

[40:43] A: "There's no one in that cog that's looking for like outside of the box strategic thinkers."

4. TV Commercials and the Rise of Virtue Signaling

The discussion shifts to the current state of TV commercials, which Camille criticizes for prioritizing political correctness over product messaging. They argue that this shift towards virtue signaling dilutes brand messages and alienates target audiences.

[16:37] B: "They're paying a million dollars for a piece of crap written by a DEI committee that doesn't understand how to message."

[17:05] A: "It's actually trying to, like, brainwash the populace of, like, don't ask questions."

5. Resilience vs. Fragility in Branding

Exploring the concept of antifragility, the hosts contrast it with the current trend of promoting vulnerability and entitlement. They assert that brands need to build resilience by embracing challenges and criticism rather than seeking to please everyone.

[31:20] B: "It's been. People have become fragile and weak. But Antifragile says you must be able to deal with black swan events."

[35:05] B: "You have to encourage yourself to get out there and get criticism, feedback, fall down, scrape a knee by analogy for your business so that you can become resilient."

6. Current News: TikTok's Ban and Pinterest's Changes

Camille provides updates on the ongoing TikTok ban, mentioning President Donald Trump’s stance and the potential extension of the ban. They also discuss Pinterest’s new generative AI tool aimed at making content more shoppable, which is a strategic move to enhance its ad revenue capabilities.

[41:59] A: "So TikTok adds new tools to Pulse Core to give brands more placement options."

[44:55] A: "Facebook is a really underutilized place for attention right now."

7. Hot or Not: Blake Lively's Brand Challenges

In the Hot or Not segment, Camille and Phillip critique Blake Lively’s recent actions that have reportedly tarnished her personal brand. They discuss the implications of her lawsuit against co-star Justin Baldoni, drawing parallels to the myth of Icarus to illustrate the dangers of overreaching and the importance of maintaining authentic brand alignment.

[47:27] A: "I think she really actually ruined her brand."

[53:02] A: "You can't be cancelable when you're being yourself, when you're being authentic."

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Camille and Phillip wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of authenticity, creativity, and personal branding in building resilient and antifragile brands. They encourage listeners to embrace AI as a tool for enhancing creativity rather than a threat to their careers.

[55:03] B: "And it doesn't have credibility if your brand is that. I'm obsessive compulsive about perfection."

[56:09] A: "But what's the personal brand takeaway from this?"

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Key Takeaways:

• Avoiding Neutrality: Brands that fail to take a clear stance risk becoming irrelevant in a competitive market.
• Embracing AI: Leveraging AI tools can enhance creativity and efficiency, but overreliance may lead to obsolescence.
• Personal Branding: Building a strong personal brand is essential for credibility and resilience in the face of AI advancements.
• Authentic Messaging: Advertising should focus on genuine product benefits rather than superficial virtue signaling to effectively engage target audiences.
• Resilience Over Fragility: Brands should cultivate resilience by embracing challenges and criticisms, fostering long-term sustainability.

Notable Quotes:

• Camille Moore: "Entire swaths of industries are going to be wiped out for how fast AI is moving." [00:00]
• Phillip Millar: "Creativity is a new currency. If you can be creative, you can do wonderful things." [15:02]
• Camille Moore: "You can't be cancelable when you're being yourself, when you're being authentic." [55:03]

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This episode underscores the critical need for businesses to pivot from being overly polite and neutral to embracing bold, authentic branding strategies that resonate with modern audiences and withstand the rapid changes driven by AI and societal shifts.

Transcript

[A]

Entire swaths of industries are going to be wiped out for how fast AI is moving.

[B]

So you run a commercial with two people who look like they may have been fired from Starbucks for being too woke. Do you know? Do you know what I mean? And then telling you're not wrong. I think people are very ignorant as to how good Facebook is because Instagram makes them feel cooler. Facebook doesn't seem cool and words speak data screams. And that's why you always want to look at your data and not your preconceptions. All of the messaging we've been getting the last 10 years, especially to some of the younger generations, be fragile, feel like you're entitled.

[A]

That's not the message, but it's okay.

[B]

Will you tell us what you think the message is?

[A]

I don't have to agree with the ideology that you're putting out there, especially when your goal is to sell a bottle of fucking ketchup. What a brand, what a brand, what a brand, what a mighty good brand. Say it again now. What a brand, what a brand, what.

[B]

A brand, what a mighty good brand.

[A]

Welcome back to another week of Art of the Brand. We're continuing to shake up our format.

[B]

So, no, we're shaking up the marketing world is what we're doing. We are challenging conventional wisdom, saying what most people are scared to say, and making stuff happen for founders and CEOs.

[A]

So today we're going to talk about AI, creativity and personal brands. We're going to talk about TV commercials. Have they become a way to socially engineer the population, control the mind of the people. We're going to talk about building antifragile brands. We're going to talk about founder brands and why they matter. I've got an in the news segment and then we're going to break down some hot or not.

[B]

One of us is going to praise Blake Lively and one of us is going to rip her apart. You guys, guess who that's going to be at the end?

[A]

Who's praising her?

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

All right, so let's talk about AI, creativity and personal brands. We've got a crazy stat here. We think 60% of marketing jobs are going to be at risk in the next 18 months. It's just like a serious time to wake up and listen up.

[B]

I think it'd be one of the greatest disruptions to the workforce in the last hundred years. And I think people are not taking it seriously enough and aren't researching its potential impact in their industry. Their heads in the sand, they're distracted by AI. But they don't know what it can do to their industry.

[A]

Well, it's complicated to unpack because AI and marketing, branding is kind of being looked at as this amazing tool that no one's talking about. There's enhancements to it. Right. Like we're talking about copywriting and AI. You're seeing a lot of like canva tools and like there's, there's, it's definitely obviously greatly entering into marketing and branding because for the most part marketing and branding is like idea ideation which is kind of easy for ChatGPT to come into. But what's complicated about it is we're not talking about the jobs that are going to be lost, especially when we just watch the diary of a CEO and in one of the segments he talks about this platform which I have pulled up actually called replit, which effectively through AI will completely build for you and like an entire shop, like a Shopify shop that can take payments, like full apps, like SaaS based platforms, like entire swaths of, of industries are going to be wiped out for how fast AI is moving.

[B]

By way of comparison, we can put up the photo, but it's, there's a picture of a New York City street that is full of horse and buggies and then from the exact same vantage point there's a picture of it 13 years later and there's no horse and buggies, it's all cars. That's 100 years ago or whatever, before we had computers. The pace of Change today is 10x or thousandx of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So understanding that that pace of change now is so much faster Once you introduce AI that can build websites, put Shopify is on it, do graphic design, write copy, think of how many jobs in the marketing space can be replaced by AI or will be replaced. And so you have to ask yourself, how do I remain relevant in this market?

[A]

A lot of these big agencies are obsolete. Like they have too many bodies, they have too big of a footprint, they have too big of an office. And you're going to see a lot of these C suites all breaking off to be all become these like boutique individual proprietorships. And there's going to be so much more competition.

[B]

So to me the currency is going to be creativity. We've heard of a lot of layoffs in the big agencies where you're not really creative, you're just moving product or just doing things. And what I think is interesting is AI can produce things that seem new to you, but really all it's doing is looking at what's happened Before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then generating something. So human creativity is where we generate a new idea or a new question. And that's going to be the value that you can bring to the table in this industry and to clients who need creativity. Because a lot of, a lot of the founder companies and the CEOs that we help, they're being serviced by marketing agents that are using 80% AI right now to do all of the work and they're not getting creativity.

[A]

There's two camps. There's two camps. There'S. Because we had a team member come from one of the bigger agencies and I asked her like, how much of your job are you using ChatGPT? And she's like zero. Like they completely frown against it. Like they're so. Because ChatGPT can also be so reliable when you're a big business and you've got tons of employees. It is a scary oversight when you've like, you've kind of risen through the ranks and like an old school model and you're at the top of this business and like ChatGPT can make a ton of mistakes. It's over. People can become over reliant on it. There's a lot of like visual cues that it's ChatGPT and if you did an RFP for a million dollars and the brand catches wind that like their account manager was using all chatgpt, like that could be a brand killer for these huge agencies. So there's two camps to it.

[B]

You know, I think the legacy institutions are holding on tight. You see it in law too. Like they're trying to hold on tight to. I have relationships. This is how we do things. And I think we're going to talk about it later when we talk about TV commercials. Like you're not really. We're moving away from the old model of what an advertising agency did. Right. You just don't create a cheesy restaurant commercial or to sell a cheap product like that. That model is moving. I think they're holding onto it because they have big contracts. But soon people are going to realize that they're not getting value for their million dollar.

[A]

But this is also where it's like complicated too. I think there's going to be a massive changing of the guards. Like there's brands that have continued to do well or do good enough based on really well executed strategy of the past. Like Heinz Ketchup. We're going to talk about. Right? Like Heinz did such a great job advertising, messaging and positioning. They had great brand for many, many, many years. There's now this kind of like over reliance through these legacy brands who just because they have market share and market domination, they have money, but they don't want, they're not their heads. Headspace isn't in the place to like be strategic, be innovative, be creative. So they're just going to that like reliant model of like old school agency. Like there's no one in that cog that's looking for like outside of the box strategic thinkers. Like they just want someone that's going to just go and like do what they say. Copy and paste, do the same boring stuff.

[B]

I think why you're so in demand is people now know you as a human and they want to work with your brand. Like they know you in a world where AI is going to replace a lot of the humans. If you're in the industry, in the marketing industry or any industry, you have to develop your own personal brand so that people can relate to you and want to work with you. Because that's the only thing that's going to save us in this market is having personal relationships.

[A]

Well, investing in a personal brand is always also just important for a ton of different reasons. Number one is so many agency owners, if we're going to talk about the agency space, but also any industry are not investing in their future self, like their future potential. And if every industry is going to become more competitive because AI is coming in to take away more jobs and it's still going to be humans hiring humans, you don't want to be starting creating a personal brand when we're in a massive crisis and everyone is trying to enter into the space. But two outside of that, a lot of professionals in all industries are resisting ChatGPT or AI because they think that they are the best. It's their expertise. They're arrogant. They're not leveling up their humanness by being like plugged in. And that's what you and I talk about. Like why would you want to hire a human that's not maximizing their time on stupid things? Like you're not hiring me to type out the document. You're hiring me because of all of my experience, everything I've read, my perspective on life, like what I'm putting into the machine is not what you're putting into the machine. So the fact that the machine is typing it out and my brain is scanning it and reading it and saying no, that's not correct. I want this angle, I want this approach. It's that input that I can't train somebody on.

[B]

So I think what AI is going to usher in is a phase of the return to the generalist. For, like, the last 20 to 30 years, everybody has told you, specialize, specialize, specialize. What AI allows you to do is access the specialized knowledge you couldn't get if you didn't specialize. Yeah, right. And now it's going to come down to being able to understand a complex system. And it's almost like you're. If you're. You can't plan if you're going to surf. For example, Brett Weinstein gave this example. I love this tinker. You can't chart the route you're going to surf. If you're a surfer, you can't plan the whole way from the wave to the thing. You have to be somebody who can understand a complex system and respond to things as they go down and then you surf the wave. And in an AI world where we have a complex system of things changing so rapidly, if you're a specialist, you're going to get left behind because everybody will move fast. You have to be able to see the patterns, respond to them, and keep moving.

[A]

I love that because that perfectly captures not knowing what's coming, but being prepared. That change is on the horizon. Like, that's super important. I don't want to get bogged down in the anxiety of it all because it is definitely stressful. But there's also. What I'm noticing as well is they're putting limitations on the GPTs as we move. Like, they're really using the drug dealer model. Right. They want you to get addicted and it's gonna start being capped where if you want the best access, it's gonna cost you a hell of a lot of money. And you're even noticing with the changes week over week how I even find how it answers or how it's trying to pause and it's not giving me the response, and it's trying to push me to give delivery dates a week or weeks later so that you're not just consuming an insane amount of energy. Like, there are changes that are also coming and being implemented. And like all industries, the best time to get involved is in the beginning because it helps you chart those waves.

[B]

Let me say it simply to people who are listening. I think you should be spending two hours a day on ChatGPT or the language learning model to learn it. Because I think for the first time in history, we're going to think of writing. Like when writing was invented, it was transformative for the human species. But only a few People could write and it could only be disseminated. There was no printing press. So it was actually a slow change. It was powerful, but it couldn't be multiplied at a level the printing press is seen as the biggest thing, the last biggest thing to happen to us. Right. Because it allowed us to print books.

[A]

On mass, allow us to convey information across territories.

[B]

But today, with AI en masse, en masse, you're going to see people who are 1000x more capable than people who aren't using it. It's not just going to be 10x or double, it's going to be a thousandx. You're going to use that software we talked about. You're going to be able to create apps. Websites move at such a pace if you're skilled at it. And so if you're not investing in that, you could be one of the people who are left behind. So whatever industry you're in, you need to, you need to understand this and you need to be working with people who understand it so you can move fast.

[A]

Yeah, it is true. I also think too like this whole idea on like these video based avatars, I actually think they're gonna have their like time and it's gonna kind of expire because ultimately consuming content only from a like an AI avatar is extremely limiting for what humans actually look for. Like, there's no drama, there's no tea. You can't like see them dating someone in real life. You can't buy a ticket to go to their show, you can't hire them.

[B]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you. There's a. Because what I've been hearing from some of the people who are running the big podcasts is that they're doing beta tests now where they're using video avatars with the same audio from their live one and they put it out and it has the exact same engagement. So the avatar version of the three people, it doesn't.

[A]

No, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the avatarization of real people isn't going to be a massive opportunity. It's that creating only an AI avatar that didn't have a real person counterpart is not going to be the future. Deep fakes is a real scary problem and issue that we're going to have to like, counteract with some form of like a blockchain verification technology.

[B]

I'm still going to have to go ahead and disagree with you. I think the next God in our society is going to be An AI avatar. No, but listen, if you can create that a God where people worship any.

[A]

No, because God at present doesn't exist on Earth.

[B]

Okay, right, like I know we're having a geography discussion.

[A]

No, but I agree with you that we're going to have like AI deities because it's an ominous thing that's responding to you. That doesn't exist. That's what religion is built on.

[B]

Okay, wait for those comments.

[A]

No, but it, but that's. You don't like and go for 2.

[B]

Billion people that God doesn't exist.

[A]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's one sided relationship from a, from a carbon perspective. Like from a carbon relationship.

[B]

Yeah, no, the avatar is more like a cult leader that you can follow in present time.

[A]

Yes, historical.

[B]

I understand what you're saying.

[A]

My point is like, is like are we going to have all these like podcast hosts and like these social media presence where like you're consuming a bunch of their information and it's not a real person? Like probably they'll have a lot of followers. But that isn't really like the real fear for like taking over your wedding planning business. You know, like it's because you want a physical wedding planner at your physical wedding in real life. But like a lot of the work from a wedding plan, like a wedding planner isn't gonna need five assistants. Like she can scale all of the planning.

[B]

Although I believe AI avatar doctors are gonna replace family physicians.

[A]

Totally. But there's still gonna be a ton of people that wanna go in person to show them their elbow.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, like there is still gonna be a lot of that. Like the point is there's just like a lot of anxiety around it. Opposed to like adopting this. Like this is the best use of time for you to learn and to like level up with. Because it's going to be a massive division of the populace. People who use AI and people who resisted AI.

[B]

Creativity is a new currency. If you can be creative, you can do wonderful things. If you're a rule follower in a big agency, pack your bags well.

[A]

You're just going to be like strapping yourself into your Metaverse pod and your living in the 50s, whatever that movie is. And I can never remember the name. So important for movies to have, well branded name.

[B]

If the name is too long, it's hard to remember. It's like a business. The best business names are short names.

[A]

It shows you though, like how the power of having a like name brand actor. Because the first thing I typed in was Harry Styles movies. You know what I mean? Like, the name of someone is such an anchor point. It's a brand. Don't Worry, Darling. Which has nothing to do with the concept of the movie.

[B]

Well, a little bit, in that it's kind of placating a type of Stepford Wife. But don't worry, Darling just doesn't stand out from it. Sounds like a hundred other movies from the 50s till now.

[A]

It's not that movie. Like, it's not the difference for that movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so number two, TV commercials. So we were watching the Toronto Maple Leafs, who are going strong in their second round, and we had to watch TV commercials. And it's interesting because we're in advertising, we're in branding, and we should from, like, what we do in our daily jobs because we're so invested in this. Love watching TV commercials. I would rather watch paint dry than watch current TV commercials.

[B]

I would rather stick a fork in my eye.

[A]

Dull butter knife.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because they're just. I actually feel like.

[B]

I feel like they're made for lunatics.

[A]

It annoys me for the. For the one every 12 brands that actually invest in the commercial being, like, a good. A good commercial, because I feel like the reality is, like, the good commercial is actually being missed if, like, every other commercial is just, like, so bad because it makes you not want to watch commercials at all. And the people that are, like, watching commercials are just plugged into the metaverse.

[B]

They're paying a million dollars for a piece of crap written by a DEI committee that doesn't understand how to message.

[A]

No, it's. It's actually trying to, like, brainwash the populace of, like, don't ask questions. Don't. Like, you can't say that this is a bad ad because we've checked every single box. And by you criticizing the validity of this ad, you are a bad person.

[B]

I don't even know if it really takes seriously their target market audience, because I could kind of think of some examples, but let's say it's Cracker Barrel, right? Like, the whole ad would be East Indian and Chinese people. It's like, if it was in Canada, it's for crackers. Like, it's for white. You know what I mean? But like, every commercial, it's like, okay, we got a black father, we got a white mother, and then we got an Indian in East Indian. Like, it's. It's just. It's a cornucopia of. Of diversity, which is fine, but it's. It's not reflective of what society really is or what your target market is. And you're just distracted by all of the social. Social virtue signaling messages that are getting in the way of the product or the message.

[A]

They're trying to put political. It's. It's hard to hear this as, like, a snapshot without us, like, being able to play the array of commercials. Is it there. There's a. There's a gap from, like, what we're seeing versus what we're seeing.

[B]

This is all over. The people are like, I cannot watch a TV commercial without being inundated with. With multiracial families.

[A]

Like, but the Canadian commercials are worse. Like, they're. They're worse from a perspective.

[B]

Not that England, England, Scotland, disastrous right now, but they're.

[A]

They're worse from the perspective of the commercial has nothing to do with the brand. That's where the criticism is. The criticism isn't in. We have a very multicultural country. We're very celebratory of. We call them new Canadians. We don't call them immigrants. This is not a everyone needs to look the exact same and be white. It's that where advertising is going is truly virtue signaling. It has nothing to do with the brand, which is ruining brands. And it's what's also showing you why these big agencies are useless because they're just trying to exercise their political correctness, not what's most important for the brand. For example, there's this commercial right now being aired for TikTok.

[B]

We should find out who did that commercial.

[A]

It's by. For TikTok Canada.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's two large individuals who. I have no idea what they do for TikTok. And it's this, like, podcast of them talking about how amazing TikTok is. It's made by Canadians, it's run by Canadians. It's for Canadians. Like, TikTok is a app made in China by, effectively by the state, run by the Chinese government. It is in a massive contention right now with the US Government because it's been proven to be spying on people's phones. And the ad that they're running is that it's by Canadians for Canadians, and it's a Canadian.

[B]

Like, I think this is where it gets nefarious, because what TikTok is best at is its AI algorithms know how to kind of trap the human mind in distraction. And that's a very good quote that I think I'm going to use again. So the AI algorithm is trapping human minds in distraction, and I think it's resulting in humans being unintellectualized they can't really analyze any issues. And then. So you run a commercial with two people who look like they may have been fired from Starbucks for being too woke. Do you know? Do you know what I mean? And then telling you're not wrong? No. And then telling people that TikTok is made by Canadians. For Canadians, it's like the power of virtue signaling kind of doing what you're told from a social engineering signaling perspective overrides like our critical thinking to say, wait a second, what's going on here? First of all, it's not Canadian. Second of all, why are these people talking to me about TikTok?

[A]

But it's also just like, what's the. So what? Right? Like, if you're trying to connect with business owners to get onto TikTok, there's an entire entirely different strategy, message and position for that ad. The point being is Canada tends to be more behind than the United States for like adopting technology, adopting trends. And there's a lot of business owners that could really benefit from like, from going on TikTok. We also don't have a lot of the features and such that us TikTok. But it doesn't matter. Like, they need to see the numbers to roll out the investment in the, in the programs, but they're not doing it.

[B]

I'm just like, I get agitated because it's all about. TikTok is diverse. TikTok is. For Canadians. It's like that message means more than saying, if you're a small business owner, this is how TikTok can double your revenue. Like, it's, it like these agencies, whenever your advisors have more control over your strategy and they have their own, they have their own agenda. Because I feel like these are all agency driven campaigns from people who are living in this ESG world and they're just ruining brands with nonsense. But we saw it three times in the hockey game and every time we're like, what the f is this commercial?

[A]

It actually just makes me genuinely angry because it's taking such an important opportunity and real money that could be used for a million other things to just really exert power. The whole point of why TikTok became the largest app is it's, it's basically whatever you like. So it's like when you go on TikTok, you're gonna have a very different algorithm than what I'm gonna see on TikTok. That entire commercial is like, you can't like anything other than what we're talking about right now. And if you like Anything outside of this space. And if you see TikTok as a. As if you question that it's not a Canadian app, that maybe the TikTok Canada office is obviously run by people in Canada because why would the TikTok Canada office be run by people in.

[B]

They ignored. It's the greatest source of only fans revenue. You know what I mean? But they're making it look like. Like it's like so bad.

[A]

It's so bad. And then also.

[B]

But then we went.

[A]

Oh, sorry, no, go ahead, go ahead.

[B]

No, but then we went on to the Heinz commercial.

[A]

That's what I was going to say. Yeah. So then the Heinz commercial came out, which I guess, like, is Heinz Canadian?

[B]

Can we set up? No, it's not.

[A]

No.

[B]

But Heinz has plants here. But let's set up because I think we had both read a book and we're in love with the Hinds ad. There was a famous Heinz Adilvy book. Yeah, we'll put it up. Ogilvy is the G of original agencies. They've gone woke. But this ad is so fantastic at making the audience fill in the missing detail in a powerful way. Yeah, right. And it's the one with the French fries and it doesn't actually show the ketchup.

[A]

I'm just. You know what? It's definitely my trash side. I just love for mayonnaise white sauce all the way.

[B]

But what we saw was a focus on why your product was worth buying. Right. Heinz? There are no other kinds, right? It was. And the. The commercial on TV was just a complete departure from that.

[A]

It was literally, again, it was another, like, virtue signaling festival of just all these different people that may or may not work at Heinz, like, trying to make it like it's a Canadian. But this is also too, like a huge push because of what's happening in the news right now, where everything is like, let's make things that were never had gluten in it, gluten free. So, like, things that, you know, were just because of the whole, like, frustration with the US and Canada. So, like, they're now just making every angle.

[B]

But it's not just Canada that's doing this. It's all over America. It's all. It's all over Ireland, Scotland, England. It's not just Canada. So I see it in everything, the.

[A]

Way that they're positioning. Like the whole commercial was that it's like they're grown in Petrolia, Ontario, the tomatoes and like, the people that they like go to barbecues on the weekend and she shows people that she filled that bottle because she works at the factory plant. And it.

[B]

So I think what it's reflecting is, is a movement away from the product and why the product is amazing to, hey, look at how virtuous we are. We grow this here. Look at our people that are diverse like I imagine. And if anybody's working in these big companies, I know in some of them, having consulted for them, they have a dei, a Diversity Equity Inclusion committee that sits on major decision points for advertising and branding. And they're having a disproportionate effect on how they're building a brand. So they're saying if we're going to do a commercial, they'll be right there saying this commercial has to show every gender and every ethnicity within 100 miles. And put that on the commercial. But that messaging takes over. It takes away from the brand. Like there was nothing really about the product or why it was great.

[A]

Well, that's the exact point that we need to make because we're totally gonna get misquoted on the first part. Because the real issue is they're moving away from good marketing is selling the brand, it's selling the product. Current marketing is selling an ideology. And that is why this is so problematic is that I don't have to agree with the ideology that you're putting out there, especially when your goal is to sell a bottle of fucking ketchup. So the point is, is like, I want you to be marketing your ketchup. I don't want you to be selling me what your perspective is on society at present. Because then that's what now gets the majority of people stuck. They don't feel like they can say anything. They don't want to push the boundaries, they don't want to rock the boat. So they just continue to move with this like vague cloth cloud of status quo where we don't really know what anyone stands for. We don't feel like we can talk about anything, but we're not selling the thing.

[B]

And how are you differentiating when every agency is doing the same thing?

[A]

No, but you're not differentiating.

[B]

Every company can be doing the same.

[A]

And where does it go?

[B]

Anything? Like it's. Is it not about your product or is it about that you're more obedient to societals?

[A]

What are we celebrating? That people no longer see race. We get married to who we want to get married to. We've got kids that are different. Like you've got mixed race kids. Like it, it's normal.

[B]

Ten years ago, when I would Go to downtown New York or more downtown Toronto, because Toronto has always been very diverse and happy, but I literally didn't see race. Like, if somebody came in who was black or somebody came in who was agent, like, we were just all Torontonians, like high level Torontonians. But the last 10 years has seen such a focus on race that now everywhere, like, you just can't help but see it in every business position. Like, it's leading to questioning why everybody is there, what's going on. Like, I think we've. Society has moved to be identifying people more. Like, I'm seeing race way more than I ever saw it before. And I don't know if it's good for society, but I know it's bad for brands.

[A]

Well, the problem though with the race piece is that Toronto is a really special city, so is New York for that reason. Right. And there has. There's needed to be a movement because most cities in most places haven't had that level of acceptance, which has been a very good thing. And I'm glad that that has happened. And there's a massive place for ensuring that we have children that grow up that are understanding of that. Just like the way we were raised, being raised in Toronto, like, that's. I feel the same way. My dad grew up in Africa. Like, the family joke is he would dress me up in African garb to go to wear yours culture to work day.

[B]

Are you saying you were blackface?

[A]

No, I wear a cool little African.

[B]

So you culturally appropriate a race.

[A]

Oh, my God. My dad grew up in Africa.

[B]

So that was just put in the comments. Cancel, please.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

Cultural appropriation.

[A]

But my point of this is that it's not relevant to selling ketchup or that TikTok was made in China.

[B]

Well, when you put the product in the back seat, you can't differentiate. Heinz has been known as the best ketchup. What I would be doing, or if we had been hired by Heinz, is we'd be saying not only have we been the best selection for fries and burgers for your whole life, but create a new market. Like, say we're amazing on eggs. You know what I mean? Like, try to try to create a new market with the same angle of the fries and, and what the ketchup would be on.

[A]

Like, to me, the big point is like, we're moving away to becoming more healthy, right? So like the whole idea is like, I would be tapping into treat culture, you know, like for when you have.

[B]

Fries, make it count and it's almost gone. So far as they're deliberately. It's not as bad as the Bud Light, but they're almost deliberately putting on commercials that don't speak to the audience. Like, it's a UFC commercial, you know, like, they're not really speaking to the hockey players at all. Like, it's.

[A]

The only one that was actually good was the Moors one. The Moors ad was actually quite good.

[B]

Exceptional.

[A]

And it was about, like, that should.

[B]

Be on Hot or not.

[A]

Yeah, we were like, basically men's sweating at, like, summer weddings, and they, like, created this special, like, sweat wicking fabric, and they call it, like.

[B]

So it was a men's formal attire store called Moore's, which is done very well because they know their target audience, and they don't put chiseled face. They don't put chiseled face millennials on it. They put the guy who's got to put on a suit who's, like, a contractor, and you just like the guy. Right.

[A]

It's not. Even though. It's like, not. It's not even. It's just generic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's just generic men. Like, it was a very well done commercial because, like, that's specifically who. And it wasn't overly complicated. They didn't create a crazy storyline. It's like, when are the most amount of weddings in Canada in the summer. What happens at summer weddings? Well, men sweat, and they're sweating in a suit, especially a suit that's not expensive. So they came out with this sweat wicking fabric, and that speaks for the core pain point of all the men that are watching hockey that have seven weddings this summer because. Or they've got prom this summer or wherever they are in life. Right. Like, that was very well done.

[B]

So that was hot. The other two commercials, big knots.

[A]

There was just so many nods. But the TikTok one man, like, can you imagine the boardroom of, like, let's try to position TikTok as made in Canada.

[B]

Like, what, by baristas who were fired from being too woke.

[A]

That was hilarious. All right, so, I mean, I guess we kind of really talked about why this whole antifragile movement needs to happen, and we are really leaning into it, and that's why you tune in. And I don't expect you to be as rash, but it. There is something to learn about or to talk about antifragileness. And this is a fantastic book that really could be a TED Talk. So if you want, like, the short summary is, like, it's pretty good, but it's a good book. But it's like, it's a, it's a.

[B]

Nassim Talib, but it, it's. It's what. And it goes counter to what. Everything has happened the last 10 years in society. Because what's happened in society in the last decade is be fragile. If somebody is rude to you, have, Have a breakdown, like everything about what we've been creating in people, the message is. Can I finish? It is the message. Let me see.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

It's been. People are, have become fragile and weak. But Antifragile says you must be able to deal with black swan events, with events that you're not expecting. But if you don't build up resilience through struggle, through friction points, when a bad event happens, you are going to be dusted and that's going to happen in industries and businesses and professions. Right? So all of the messaging we've been getting the last 10 years, especially to some of the younger generations, be fragile, feel like you're entitled.

[A]

That's not the message, but it's okay.

[B]

Will you tell us what you think the message is?

[A]

The message has been don't keep things bottled up, right? Like express your perspective, express your opinions, express your emotions. Like be you. That's more the message.

[B]

And from who?

[A]

Society.

[B]

Okay, so we might have a different op. I don't think that's the message. I think the. I think we have created a victim economy in which there's whole industries that are making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars by creating additional subcategories of victims. We now have 24 letters of the Alphabet in the flag.

[A]

Okay, but you're going you.

[B]

And that's not the way to survive a bad event. You have to be resilient. You have to be able to work through struggle and setbacks and recessions. And brands can help you get through that if you build a good brand.

[A]

High fragility, though, to the like, to that movement, like the. The point of what's. Of what you're speaking to that requires a better explanation is that there is a push to being you, whatever that looks like, and expressing your emotions, your opinions and your feelings. And with that inch, there's been a mile that's been taken and that there is a massive gap of where now business and brand owners don't think any of these things are wrong per se on the face of it.

[B]

So are you saying that society in the last 10 years hasn't encouraged people to get a hundred times the amount of trauma docs and therapy dogs and survivor dogs?

[A]

Society Isn't telling me to get a trauma dog.

[B]

No, they're making it okay to do it if somebody hurts your feelings.

[A]

They're allowing avenues and channels for people who want to pursue and there's more people that are pursuing it, which is not resilience. That's not the conversation on the brand owner or the business owner. Right. Like what business owners are struggling with is they've tried to pander to a ton of different emotions and opinions. The Internet is overwhelming. You don't want to be canceled. You don't want to talk about what you care about. You've been trained and raised to not talk about politics and sex and all these different controversial topics. And brand owners now have diluted brands that can't do anything in the market.

[B]

I think you're going off the topic a little bit. The resilience element for brands and businesses from a coaching perspective is we often tell people like if 80% of your business comes from two clients or one client, you're vulnerable. Right. And so you're not, you're not anti fragile if you rely on only one or two clients for all of your business.

[A]

Sure. But that's not fragility. That's also reliance. And we need to talk about that too. Especially with the business potential. TikTok ban. Fragility is.

[B]

You're arguing me over what fragility is.

[A]

Fragility is not. You're not.

[B]

Fragility is. You break easy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's called fragile.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if you're super sensitive to criticism, comments, setbacks, market changes, you're fragile. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

[A]

But that's not. That's also the over reliance on tick tock. That's not really fragility. You're stretching.

[B]

The fragility is if you're on one platform only and that platform shuts down, you're not resilient.

[A]

Yeah, but that's. You're stretching the definition. What you're said.

[B]

Where did I stretch it?

[A]

You stretch. Because what you said before is more relevant. Business owners that are too afraid to be themselves, where they're too afraid to exercise and make decisions that make sense for their customers.

[B]

I think the point you're saying is you can't become resilient and tough unless you get criticized.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so if you live a life to not be criticized, you are not going to become a resilient brand. You're going to be a fragile brand because you're trying to please everybody. So you have to encourage yourself to get out there and get criticism, feedback, fall down, scrape a knee by analogy for your business so that you can become resilient. But too many businesses are like, I don't want to offend anybody, I don't want to do anything, I don't want to reach into here. And so when you have a big hit, you're going to be very fragile.

[A]

I mean, you brought up a good point. I don't agree that it's fragility, but I do agree that having an over reliance on platforms, especially with how fragile the social media landscape is right now, boom. But one of the things we're going to talk about in the news segment is that the tick tock ban is being extended, right? And TikTok has been very odd and it was a big wake up call for us because TikTok was our main platform. It was the easiest to get started on. It felt the less like I was. I wasn't like ruining my brand on Instagram for the people that knew me initially. So like it was the safest from a social embarrassment standpoint. It was the easiest from a best algorithm standpoint. But I'd never really watched a platform like come and go like that. Especially when like at the rate that it was like YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, they've stuck around. And it just shows you that everything in the world right now is fragile. Right. And being over reliant on anything is stupid. And you. We've been working with amazing business coach who we're going to be doing actually a segment, an in person session in Austin and Dallas. And Dallas. There's more to come, but those are the first ones that are being announced. We're thinking it's going to be June 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, but we're going to be doing a business branding and leadership masterclass. It's like an 8:30-12 segment. So come if you'd like to come. But we were talking with him, his name is Glenn and he was explaining to us that like there's a lot of businesses where 80% of your income.

[B]

Can come from one, one supplier one.

[A]

To you know, 20%. Right. Like the reverse of the Pareto and how risky that is for your business's longevity. And there's never a convenient time to fix that when like the money is good. But there's like my one my favorite JFK quotes is the best time to fix a leaky roof is on a sunny day because when it's raining you don't want to fix it. I'm sure that was obvious to most people, but I just Wanted to give my ad lib storytelling.

[B]

That was, that was jfk, I think it was Jack Black and Nacho Libre.

[A]

It wasn't.

[B]

Okay, we're going to, I'm going to verify that. Okay, let's move on to founder personal brands.

[A]

Okay, cool. So we can talk about founder brands and why they matter. I mean, we really touched on it kind of in the, in the early segment. But like the core piece of this is it's actually not about visibility. And that's what most people miss is they think that personal branding is about being visible, being findable. There's this egotistic element to it. It's actually about credibility. And if you don't have a personal brand in the current age, you are not credible because you're not verifiable. And it's not about direct ROI of posting and getting the bump. It's about showing up so that when someone is deciding to hire your business, they can verify that you're the right person for the job.

[B]

People don't want to buy from nameless corporations would have high advertising budgets anymore. They want to know the story behind the brand and the story behind the brand. Just like in any great book or movie, there's a hero, you know, and that hero is the, the personal brand of the founder.

[A]

It's not even about hero to me. It's character. There's a character to that story that.

[B]

Explains why they care about your ex and that's why they created this. Why?

[A]

Well, it's. You're talking about founder brands, which is more of like the Sarah Blakely, the, the Elon Musk, the Gary Vee. To me, when I think of founder brands that are more relatable, it's more of kind of like the Emma Greed. Right? She's running right now, Good American. She runs skims, she's works with the Kardashians. But she's a very different story. She grew up with a single mom in East London. You know, like she's mixed race. She's like now running multiple, multiple billion dollar brands. And she's got a personal, a personal brand as a founder that's very relatable that like you can connect. She shows the behind the scenes. She's very much not Kardashian ified. And she to me is a perfect example of you also should have a personal brand even if you're not this like incredible thought leader, mad scientist founder.

[B]

In today's world, it's the cheapest and most effective way to showcase your brand is to have somebody have a Spokesperson for it.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And generally the spokesperson should be the founder, but if it's not the founder, find the right person to be the spokesperson for it. So there is a human element to your brand.

[A]

You need to have somebody attached to your brand, whether it's like employee generated content, whether it's user generated content, whether it's founder generated content. And truly it's probably more likely all of the above. Like you need to have a solid mix that's like invested in like who actually works there, not just like paid actors do these crazy big commercials. Because when you even think about the brands that you like the most, when you go to the store, like CT chips and you turn around the back of the bag and you can see that family, like their real family photo, you just feel better eating the food. Like it just, it, it's.

[B]

And I don't even then lays the market has shifted. So if you're a founder, you need to start creating a personal brand right now in order to be anti fragile as well.

[A]

I have a really interesting quote that I wanted to get your thoughts on. So Emigrate was just actually on Diary of a CEO and her controversial take that kind of blew up on the Internet is she said work life balance isn't the responsibility of the employer, it's the responsibility of the individual. Isn't that crazy that that's controversial?

[B]

Okay, so I guess it is because you find your own work life balance, but the brand or the culture of the company kind of affects that as well. Right. Because the people who work at Tesla for the most part love it, but they don't have much work life balance like at SpaceX either.

[A]

Right, but that's what she's kind of saying. Like the expectation isn't on the employer to provide that. It's like this. The job is going to lay out the requirements of the job. It's your job as the individual to decide one, do you want to work there? Do you like that culture? Are you committed to that mission? And if not, move on, do your thing.

[B]

Well, that's where the personal brand of the founder is external to the customer and also internal to the people there. Right. Because there are some people I've worked with who I loved working hard for because they made me feel proud to be part of it. There are some people who tried to make us work hard you frickin hated.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

So that personal brand element is a new element of leadership as well. Like you have to be known for something.

[A]

All right, Philip.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Let's move on to in the News.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I want to do a quick segment here in the news. So as we chatted about the TikTok ban is still set to to June 19th. President Donald Trump has come out and said that he will extend the ban if he has to, but he is hoping that the app can find a US person to purchase it. Do you have any insight on this? Have you heard anything? Is there any rumbling still? If it's gonna be Microsoft, I have.

[B]

No idea what's gonna happen with Tick Tock. I think a lot of it is some distraction by some politicians. Like I don't, I have no idea what's going to happen with Tick Tock. I just know that the consumers want Tick Tock in the US So it should stay there. But we just announced a trade deal and it didn't really mention TikTok.

[A]

Well, our trade deal has nothing to do with Tick Tock because Tick Tock.

[B]

In Canada is not being U.S. canada trade deal. So U.S. china trade deal was just announced. It was huge. Yeah. And they were only talking about TikTok.

[A]

Interesting. All right, well there's another update today that I'm going to explain. It's called TikTok the Pulse and this is actually really good for, for business owners. So TikTok adds new tools to Pulse Core to give brands more placement options. So TikTok has expanded its Pulse suite with a new feature called Pulse Core. Pulse Core now offers four ad placement options tied to top performing user content and cultural trends. Basically it's allowing you to publish like ads with your publishing partners. So brands can now place ads next to curated high performing content on TikTok using generative AI tools. So like if you've got like a, a great piece of content that's performing for the brand, like if F1 paid us to do like a segment today, up next would come like an F1 ad. So it would hire that like rule of seven. TikTok also introduced a new on and off platform sponsorship solution. Um, so basically they're doubling down on generating more ad revenue because TikTok wasn't predominantly in the beginning focused on ad revenue. So this is showing you a move that TikTok is becoming a better ad partner. We have a ton of clients that use the TikTok tools and it is a nightmare. So this shows you a move of them really trying to become more profitable which shows a potential more positive future for TikTok. Because why would they be doubling down on monetization if they weren't sticking around?

[B]

We have an Instagram TikTok battle going on. Yes, there is very much for video content. Meta has recognized it.

[A]

Yeah. And for for ad placement.

[B]

But you know what's odd is I find with a lot of our clients, everybody's following the Instagram metric. It's but then the calls are coming in off of Facebook because they, you can post them. They get posted on both. But I find I just finding more and more clients are getting their calls from Facebook even though everybody is fixated on the Instagram metrics.

[A]

Well, it depends what kind of a business you are. If you're a local brick and mortar. Right.

[B]

No, we just had one yesterday. Totally. Never would have thought. I think people are very ignorant as to how good Facebook is because Instagram makes them feel cooler. Facebook doesn't seem cool and words speak data screams. And that's why you always want to look at your data and not your preconceptions.

[A]

Well, Facebook is a really underutilized place for attention right now. But there are also though a lot of businesses where it's not as strategic. Right. Because Facebook tends to skew. You're not wrong though.

[B]

Like I think you're arguing from a previous position and not recognizing new data. Like say that saying Facebook skew used to older. Like it's true. But I, I, I'd see the data. But the calls that are coming into some clients from Facebook from Instagram videos to is is quite impressive these days.

[A]

Well, Facebook people are using Facebook also, also truthfully and people aren't talking about this. More people are using Facebook Marketplace. Right. Like we're in a down economy. It's a very fantastic way.

[B]

It's become the best buy and sell things.

[A]

And when you're on Facebook Marketplace, you're on Facebook. So like I even find myself like more likely to like, oh my gosh, I forgot that I had that person on Facebook. Like let me click their stories like so you're not wrong.

[B]

And I found myself doom scrolling on their shorts, which are really Instagram reels. Like so when you're going through Facebook now they have the shorts, right? Which is like YouTube shorts, but the Facebook shorts are Instagram reels. And I found myself, I got caught on it and I was scrolling and it was like this was an amazing set of videos.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. And then lastly, Pinterest has had massive ban issues for the last month. It's been shutting down a ton of accounts. They're really not coming out and speaking as to why, but there is a ton of backlash and there is because they've Rolled out new community guidelines and they have, like, bots that are, I guess, like, scrolling them. Scrolling them. But they're not communicating why they're shutting them down. So Pinterest is in the hot seat right now, and they just launched, actually, this week, a another AI generative tool that effectively allows you to, like, shop pinned content on Pinterest, which is, like, a big move for being more shoppable. Because what sucks about Pinterest is that anything that's an ad on Pinterest, you can't pin it. So where they really messed up is, like, if you're selling your shirt and you push ads on, like, male dress shirts on Pinterest, I can't pin your shirt to my pin board if I'm, like, doing like, a, like, inspo for shopping. So it's, like, annoying because, like, you can't use the ad in, like, because, like, the ad is fleeting. Like, it could disappear. So this is a big move because you can now shop content. So anyone that has a CPG brand, consider this move, because Pinterest just launched it this week. So those are the breakdowns in socials. And then let's do Hot or Not.

[B]

Today's Hot or Not is not just on ad campaigns. It's on personal brands. So we wanted to do a little bit of an assessment on personal brands. What's hot, what's not, who's killing it, who shit in the bed.

[A]

Yeah. And today we're gonna talk about Blake Lively because she has been under fire this past year and we have not talked about her. She's not been in our hot seat.

[B]

No. And I think she is colloquially shitting the bed on her personal brand.

[A]

I think she really actually ruined her brand. I think in the short term, that pocket in la, like, doesn't want to not pick her, but I think that she'll slowly start not getting callbacks in the coming years because it's. It doesn't look good.

[B]

Well, if you think of the roles now, like, she. Her roles were being this kind of larger than life female. Right. Who is joyous and happy and gorgeous. And what happened with the Baldini lawsuit, it just. It just makes it have this taste of nobody wants to be around her. Like, it seems what I tell people sometimes when they're asking me about big decisions is I always ask them, like, have you considered the law of unintended consequences? Like, if you do this, even though it'll make you feel good here, what are some of the things that could go wrong? And not enough people kind of war Game. What could go wrong if I do this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And her going after Baldini, who was somebody with less power, who's somebody she was actually bullying on the set to take it over. Right. And the stories that are coming out, she kind of thought, well, I'm supposed to be the one with no power because I'm. Why. But then in the end, it looks like she's being the bully and that she's got caught up in her own fear. Fame. And most people don't like that.

[A]

This is obviously like an Icarus story to me. You know, like it's. She just got too big for her britches and she. How, like, how many times do you think this has happened that she just hasn't been called out for?

[B]

So Icarus is the. I don't know if it was Greek or Roman. Right. Where the guy built his wings, glued him with wax, and flew so high towards the sun that it melted and then he fell and died. So it's people getting a little bit too big for their situation and then kind of self destructing because they flew too close to the sun. I don't know if it happened because I thought her and Ryan seemed like a nice, happy couple. Like, before this happened, I saw their brand as two happy, funny people who seem to love each other. Like, the PR showed them being gentle, seeing uncelebrity. Right. And that was the brand that I liked about. About them. And as they were evolving. But then it seemed like in this case, they became very, almost mommy dearest bullying, which nobody likes that person, like. So I, I don't know where this really came from, but it's. It. It's destroying her brand.

[A]

My perspective on him actually has also really changed. I. I can't really see him the same way, but I also don't understand his role in this. Like, I don't know why.

[B]

I think he was jealous. Like Baldini's gorgeous man. And their dancing scenes were very intimate. Like, it looked like they were flirting. Like what we've seen seen from the lawsuit, right? And when it looks like she's flirting with him and he's flirting with her, and then all of a sudden your husband is getting upset. Well, you're gonna say, oh, no, this guy's harassing me. Like, but when we saw the videos that have come out from the lawsuit, she looks like she's really flirting with the guy. So I think that's where this came out of.

[A]

It's like, isn't he gay?

[B]

I don't believe he is.

[A]

You said Justin Baldini Was gay.

[B]

I did not. I never said that. I said he's. Hope he's gay, because otherwise I'll get knocked off the best looking man. And.

[A]

No, you told me that he's gay.

[B]

He just. He may have seemed a little bit.

[A]

No, he didn't seem at all gay on his.

[B]

On his voice notes that he left her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, where he was, like, falling all over himself, apologizing, saying, you know, that was a little bit. I. I don't think so, but I think that's why Ryan was. Was very sensitive to anything that was going on.

[A]

But, like, they're actors. Like, this happens all the time. Like, you have to have, like, flirt. You have to kind of fall in love with the person you're with because you have to, like, fake it on stage, on screen.

[B]

Like, they also often hook up.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

When they're married. So, like. But he. He wrote. He was in charge of the movie. Right. And she came on and took it over, and it was like, it was one of those things where she was using power against him and then hits him with a lawsuit because it was coming out that she was being a bully. Yeah, right. And then his lawyer, who I'd love to have on my podcast at some point, because that guy came out like a rogue lawyer. Like, he just said, you want to do this?

[A]

He's like, you want to do this?

[B]

Boom. I'm not scared of you. I'm going to dump it out there. And I've seen that in lawsuits, even ones I'm in, where they think you can threaten that, like, you want to go to war. It's total war. It's the only way to beat a bully is to go total war. And her advisors destroyed a billion dollar brand, I think. And that it goes to the point of this actually is related to another lawsuit. Your advisor could be destroying you. Right. Because they're just blowing smoke up your ass. And I've had it happen to me and it's happening to other people. I know. And it happened to Blake Lively. They're blowing smoke up your ass, telling you how great you are, telling you everything is amazing. But they're. They're doing things for their own purpose. And I see a lot of CEOs in that situation, professionals in that situation. And it can ruin your brand if you don't have somebody who you trust to say, stop, you're going too far. People are scared of saying no to you. You're not being well served.

[A]

No, you're totally right. And I think the lesson to learn from this is.

[B]

Well, I think there was a little overconfidence that you can disclaim sexual harassment and you're going to win. Right? Like, I think that's where her lawsuit came out of. I think people around her said you can disclaim it and then it's going to win. But in the end, there was enough hard evidence to show it wasn't happening, that she's going to lose.

[A]

But what's the personal brand takeaway from this?

[B]

The personal brand takeaway is when you become successful, don't fall in love with your own press.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Have people around you, have that friend or trusted advisor who can come up and goes, look, man, you're, you're way out of line. But what happens, you get drunk on your own power, and then it encourages sycophants to come in who are saying pleasant words to you, but they're just draining your resources. And in the end, your brand will suffer while they take your resources.

[A]

I would say, though, that it's harder to think that you're Blake Lively because she's now an unlikable person. But I think what you're saying is two levels deeper than that, that it's, you need to make sure that you don't have yes men around you that are gonna lead you into a place that you can't turn back from.

[B]

And it happens in industries. Right. You become the top restaurant in a city. Right. Or you become the top X in your market. And then you're, you're ready to scale to 100 million a year, but you're like 5 million a year. But then you start believing all the sycophants around you. So just, just be very aware of the advice you're getting when you're building a personal brand.

[A]

I think the better takeaway though, is you can't be cancelable when you're being yourself, when you're being authentic. If you make an error in like saying something or you're misinformed or like you do something that comes from a good place, but it's not like a character flaw. You're going to be fine. Because it will course correct. People have got a 15 minute attention span. Like, you're good to go. Where you can't come back from is, well, one, character flaws, but two, using outdated mechanisms like these old school, like, PR tactics where like, you're being positioned as something and then it comes out that you're not like that. And that's why like, we, we criticize so much. This whole approach to like the jlos and the, you know, these old school. I had this, actually a really well known pop star reach out to me and she's like, I really. She was like, I don't even really know where to start. She was like, I come from that age of like, I was told what to be, who to be, what to look like. And she's like, now the record labels are nowhere to be found. They're like, have a personal brand. Go for it. And she's like, I don't, like I didn't come from this world. And it kind of goes to this piece on Blake Lively is like, she was shaped. She was a young child star. Like she was grew up through the ranks. She had old school pr. We don't really know what her and Ryan are like. We liked the image that PR put out, but it's not in line with the actions we're seeing from her. And that's what ruined her brand is that there's now a disalignment with what we had bought into from a brand perspective. And we now no longer trust her brand.

[B]

And it doesn't have credibility if your brand is that. I'm obsessive compulsive about perfection. That can be your brand brand. But don't have PR make it look like you're a kind, you know, like relaxed person, right? Like the brand has to be authentic.

[A]

Or you're like this messy, like chill, like surfer person. Like that. That there's incongruency with that. And then when we don't know what to expect when, when that trust and credibility erodes. Like, right? A brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. Like, what I now want to say about Blake Lively is not what we all know about Blake Lively, but after.

[B]

The movie, all the people who watched it, they started saying the things about her when she wasn't in the room. That got out. And that's where your advisors may tell you it's a good idea to get into a prolonged lawsuit. Like you can make a splash, but it's a prolonged lawsuit. Right? So it's not a 50 minute attention span thing. Like when she launches a big lawsuit against Baldini. It's not just that one headline because his lawyer realized that he gets a headline turn and now you're going to have discovery and then you're going to have an Amber Heard moment on the stand. Right. It's not good strategy. She should never, ever, ever have done that lawsuit.

[A]

But is it going to go to court like this?

[B]

Yeah, he counters suit for 400 million. Baldi, she sued. It's going to be Johnny.

[A]

It's civil. Is going to be on the. On the stand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Amber Hooten heard and Johnny Depp's was civil.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Yeah. So I just want to pay to watch the the cross examination because I'll get another million views just ripping apart what's on going. Going on on the. Okay, Philip, two million. Sorry.

[A]

His name is Baldoni.

[B]

Also, what I say, what I call.

[A]

It, like everything, but I call it Baldoni. Baldini.

[B]

Baldoni. Why don't you tell me how to define fragile again?

[A]

Well, thanks everybody, for listening to Art of the Brand for another week. We'll see you next week. Please share this if you liked it, because sharing is the golden metric.