The Astrology Podcast

Episode: The 5th House in Astrology, Part 2: The Ruler of the Ascendant

Host: Chris Brennan
Guest: Leisa Schaim
Date: September 20, 2025

Brief Overview

This episode continues Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim’s in-depth exploration of the 5th house in astrology, focusing on what it means when the ruler of the Ascendant is placed in the 5th house. The episode centers around real-life examples – the hosts examine over 50 natal charts of notable figures with this placement to illustrate a broad array of fifth house themes, including children, pleasure, sex, creativity, and good fortune, and how these topics manifest in people's lives. The discussion balances technical astrological insight with the personal stories behind the charts, giving listeners a vivid understanding of this placement’s practical expression.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Why Example Charts Matter

• Reviewing how examining real lives grounds the abstract significations of houses (00:28)
• Fifth house themes: children, pleasure/enjoyment, sex/sexuality, creativity, good fortune (04:23)
• The metaphor: The Ascendant is the helm; its ruler is the ship’s captain steering you toward a specific house’s topics (01:19 / 02:33)

2. Children as Core Fifth House Theme

Judy Blume (Children’s Author)

• Libra rising; Venus (Asc ruler) + Mercury, Jupiter, Sun in Aquarius 5th (05:51)
• Wrote explicitly about childhood, adolescence, and taboo topics for youth (06:29)
• Quote:
  “She was one of the first young adult authors to write novels focused on some controversial topics…[which]…are fifth house topics as well.” (07:15)
• Started by writing stories for her own children, for pleasure (09:49)

Walt Disney

• Virgo rising; four-planet Capricorn stellium in 5th (12:00)
• Not strict Asc ruler in 5th but illustrates a strong pull to children (12:40)
• The ruler of the 3rd (communication) in 5th: “He’s literally communicating to children.” (12:35)
• Also creates pleasure/fun for families through theme parks and creative output (13:12, 13:30)

Jill Biden

• Sagittarius rising; Jupiter in Aries 5th (15:20)
• Lifelong educator – focus on students/youth in her dissertation (16:05)
• Also became a stepmother — fifth/seventh house overlap; “You'll often see when there's a combination between the 5th and 7th that…children come into the life through a partner.” (16:45)

Thomas Beatie (The “Pregnant Man”)

• Libra rising; Venus (Asc ruler) + Sun, Mercury, Jupiter in Aquarius 5th (17:55)
• Famous for transgender pregnancy, legal precedent around family, children, and gender (18:34)
• “His chart has mutual reception between the fifth and ninth houses (law/legal precedents tied to fifth house).” (19:59)

Childfree, Reproductive and Saturnian Fifth Houses

• Example: Michelle Oberdorf – Pisces rising, Jupiter (Asc ruler) square Saturn (24:29)
• Chose not to have children, wrote honors thesis on childfree women (25:50)
• Saturn aspect: “One of Saturn’s functions is to say no to things or to negate things.” (23:57)
• Fifth house can be strongly present even by negation or inversion (27:13)

“Lots of Children” Examples

• Elon Musk: Cancer rising; Jupiter in Scorpio 5th – “Wanted to have lots of children...Jupiter in the fifth house, indicating the native having lots of children.” (29:55, 31:15)
• Mia Farrow: Jupiter in 5th, many biological and adopted children (32:18)
• Nick Cannon: Gemini rising, stellium in 5th, 12 children with 6 women (34:10)
• Discussion of pleasure, not just parenthood, but also entertainment careers (35:18)

Paternity & Stepchildren

• Gwen Stefani: Saturn (Asc ruler) in 5th, story involving stepchild, paternity drama (36:14)
• Story of sudden stepmotherhood reflects Saturn as ruler negating or complicating children topics (40:00)
• Noted Venus in 9th; her children have dual citizenship—ruler of 5th in the 9th (41:26)
• Eddie Murphy paternity/astrology curiosity anecdote (42:01)

3. Sex and Sexuality

Wilt Chamberlain

• Taurus rising; Venus (Asc ruler) in Virgo 5th (45:49)
• Claimed to have had sex with 20,000 women – a “most literal example” of 5th house sex themes (45:49)
• Quote: “I’ve found out that having one woman a thousand different times is much more satisfying…never came close to marrying and had no intention of raising any children.” (46:22, quoting Chamberlain at 46:35)

Kristine Gebbie (AIDS Policy)

• Pisces rising; Jupiter (Asc ruler) exalted in Cancer 5th (48:37)
• U.S. AIDS “czar,” top medical authority; fifth house = sexuality and public health at the highest level (49:04)
• “Her role as the first AIDS czar was a significant step forward…” (52:32)

Sexual Orientation & Exploration

• Nathan Lane: Cancer rising, Moon in Scorpio 5th (55:36)
• Well known actor; public coming out as gay; “Is this area a big deal for whatever reason, for this person?” (55:36)
• Eve Sedgwick: Cancer rising, Moon in Scorpio 5th + Venus/Jupiter 9th – influential queer theorist; creator of critical queer studies (58:50; 60:14)
• “Her chart has Mars-Saturn in 3rd, ruler of 5th in 3rd – writing about sexuality” (62:07, 62:49)

LGBTQ & Explicit Literature

• Barbara Wilson: Gemini rising, Mercury in Libra 5th (stellium) – early lesbian mystery/feminist fiction publisher (64:41)
• William S. Burroughs: Aquarius rising, Saturn in Gemini 5th (stellium) – openly gay, explicit works at forefront of Beat movement (66:18)

Pornography, Sex Industry, and Taboo

• Larry Flynt: Gemini rising, Mercury in Libra 5th (70:27)
• Founder of Hustler magazine; “a strong sexuality focus with his Ascendant ruler in the fifth house.” (70:57)
• Connection of house position to type of sexual content; explicitness compared with other publishers (72:45)
• Mary Laurent: Scorpio rising, Mars in Pisces 5th – famous courtesan/model in artistic Paris (74:22)

Negative/Challenging Manifestations

• Ted Bundy: Leo rising, Sun (Asc ruler) in Sagittarius 5th (80:20)
• Crimes driven by sexual pathology; chart features Sun + malefics and “dual life” aspects (81:55)
• “Some of the greatest challenges or difficulties or setbacks in the life, broadly speaking, would theoretically come from the same place.” (81:47)

4. Games, Sports, and Enjoyment

Games & Hobbies Become Destinies

• Fifth open to pleasure, hobbies, entertainment; with Asc ruler, can elevate a hobby to focus of life work (84:11)
• Garry Kasparov: Sagittarius rising, Jupiter in Aries 5th (86:23)
  • World chess champion, “became literally the best chess player in the world.” (86:23)
• Tiger Woods: Virgo rising, Mercury in Capricorn 5th (sun conjunct) (89:51)
  • Elite golfer, ruler of 5th (Saturn) in 12th; scandal invoked challenge (92:14)
  • “It doesn't necessarily negate that he has a life focus on the fifth house. It's just…a greater challenge.” (92:42)
• Danica Patrick: Libra rising, Venus in Aquarius 5th (93:42)
  • Famous professional race car driver.

Poker, Fortune, & "Luck"

• Phil Ivey: Venus exalted in Pisces in 5th, mutual reception with Jupiter in Taurus 7th (95:00)
  • Best poker player in the world, "good luck," and competition as fifth house themes (98:01)

Animals & Non-Humans

• Secretariat (Racehorse): Aries stellium in 5th (100:00)
  • Noted for both “games” and prolific breeding; activations (eclipse, Venus Rx) coinciding with Derby (101:59; 102:17)
  • “It shows when you can start applying it to other living entities, that the underlying symbolism…still works…” (103:26)

Game Show Hosts

• Fifth as games—manifestation by type of show matches rulers’ house
• Drew Carey: Mars in Pisces 5th; comedian and host of 'The Price is Right' (105:54)
• Bob Barker: Jupiter in Sag in 2nd (rules 5th) – “guessing the price of things” show (107:32)
• Alex Trebek: Saturn (rules 5th) in Taurus/9th (with Jupiter) – 'Jeopardy!' game about knowledge (108:22)

5. Comedy, Humor, and Laughing at Oneself

Comedy as Fifth House Manifestation

• Fifth explicitly tied to merriment/laughter (Valens); Asc ruler here can make comedy central career theme

Lucille Ball

• Capricorn rising, Saturn (Asc ruler) in Taurus 5th with Mars (111:23)
• Comedy based on physical mishap/self-deprecation, Saturn-Mars combo (112:22)
• "Physical comedy, and the injuries as a part of comedy..." (116:36)

Self-Deprecating or Risky Comedy

• Johnny Knoxville: Capricorn rising, Saturn in Taurus 5th; Saturn-Venus mutual reception (121:49)
  • Pain/injury for laughs (“Jackass”); Saturn return coincided with show’s release (123:53)
• Tom Green: Cancer rising, Moon in Scorpio 5th; Mars ruler in 8th (127:08)
  • Comedy of discomfort, shock, “cringe” humor; cancer experience documented for comedy (130:14)
• Kevin Hart: Virgo rising, Saturn (rules 5th) conjunct Ascendant (134:16)
  • “Self deprecating or self effacing...makes him more relatable.” (135:14)
• Amy Poehler: Aquarius rising, Saturn in Gemini 5th (120:50)
  • Renowned comedy & sketch work, awards, Walk of Fame star (121:14)
• Janine Garofalo: Aries rising, Mars/Venus in Leo 5th (118:26)
  • Stand-up, noted for being asexual (Saturn opp)
• Dick Gregory: Aries rising, Mars in Leo 5th (136:09)
  • Comedy as social critique, activism, huge family (11 children), benefits manifest as children and activism
  • Quote: “I noticed that once you get a man laughing with you, it's hard for them to laugh at you.” (146:26)
• Joe Rogan: Taurus rising, Venus in Virgo 5th (141:43)
  • Comedy, then leveraging platform for game shows, podcasts, political influence
• Nikki Glaser: Taurus rising, Mercury in Virgo 1st (rules 5th); self-deprecating humor and roasting (155:52)

6. Acting, Creative & Artistic Professions

Fifth as House of Performers, Actors

• Shirley Temple: Sagittarius rising, Jupiter (Asc ruler) + Venus, Mercury, Uranus in Aries 5th (160:33)
  • Prodigy, child star, quintessence of childhood (162:57)
  • Later became a US Ambassador (164:18)
• Jake Gyllenhaal: Leo rising, Sun in Sagittarius 5th (184:02)
  • Sibling influence (third house), career-defining gay role in Brokeback Mountain: “set a precedent..." (166:36, 167:58)
  • On Brokeback: “It’s possible…you can find love anywhere…intimacy exists in so many places that convention and society won’t allow us to see...” (169:06)
• Margot Robbie: Cancer rising, Moon in Scorpio 5th (174:13)
  • Produced/starred in Barbie (children’s toy); after, literally had a child (176:03)
  • “As a child, she was enrolled in circus school where she learned trapeze” (176:22)
• Timothée Chalamet: Virgo rising, Cap stellium in 5th (Mars exalted): ambition for acting greatness (177:24)
• Ian McKellen: Sagittarius rising, Jupiter+Saturn in Aries 5th (179:51)
  • Theater then blockbuster later in life, openly gay, LGBTQ activism (181:39)
• James Dean: Aries rising, Mars rx in Leo 5th, Uranus on Asc (183:25)
  • Symbolizes rebellious youth, died during racing (183:40)
• Tracee Ellis Ross: Taurus rising, Venus in Virgo 5th, Saturn square from 2nd (184:03)
  • Actress, childfree by choice, promotes alternate models of fulfillment (186:05)
  • “My life is full and joyful on its own terms.” (186:05)
• Will Smith: (Possible Gemini or Cancer rising; both = Asc ruler in 5th) (195:35)
  • Acting, integrated children into career ("King Richard” biopic), complex family legacies

7. Directors: Fifth House as Creativity That Directs

Steven Spielberg

• Cancer rising, Moon in Scorpio 5th with Venus Jupiter (202:25)
• Films often feature children or childhood, or focus on family dynamics (204:43)
• "A consistent theme...is a childlike sense of wonder and faith in the goodness in humanity..." (205:09)
• Challenges in creativity expressed through parents’ relationships (206:50)
• Collaborates with many recurring partners (208:40)

Rob Reiner

• Scorpio rising; Mars in Pisces 5th, mutual reception with Jupiter 1st (211:54)
• Notable for comedies, romance, iconic films featuring themes of “true love” (213:39)

Kathryn Bigelow

• Sagittarius rising, Jupiter in Aries 5th, Mars opp (213:52)
• First woman to win Oscar for directing (Hurt Locker, Point Break, Zero Dark Thirty), action/energy genres

8. Musicians, Singers, and Performers

• Beyoncé: Aries rising, Mars in Leo 5th (217:23)
  • Built stage persona (“Sasha Fierce”), multi-talented performer (218:49)
• Bette Midler: Aries rising, Mars in Leo 5th + Scorpio moon (218:25)
  • Started performing in bathhouses: “Bathhouse Betty” (220:03)
• Dolly Parton: Virgo rising, Mercury+Venus+Sun in Cap 5th; Saturn/Mars-Saturn opposition (222:00)
  • Prolific performer, children’s literacy philanthropy; “All children could be her children.” (223:48)
• Jim Morrison: Aquarius rising, Saturn/Mars/Uranus in Gemini 5th (226:15)
  • Lead singer of The Doors, sexual themes, possible infertility conjecture (226:46)
• Tina Turner: Leo rising, Sun/Mercury/Venus in Sag 5th (229:29)
  • Iconic, overcame abuse, kept performance name as identity (230:09)
• The Weeknd: Cancer rising, Moon/Pluto in Scorpio 5th (231:16)
  • High-profile performer, sexual & intense thematic content (233:27)
• Steve Albini: Taurus rising, Venus in Virgo 5th, mutual reception Mercury/3rd (235:46)
  • Not a lead performer; legendary music producer prioritizing integrity/art over profit
  • “He refused royalties…dedicated to recording a live sound at a cheap price.” (240:28)

9. Writers, Artists, and Intellectuals

• Carol Ann Duffy: Virgo rising, Mercury/Sun/Venus in Cap 5th; Saturn in 3rd (242:31)
  • UK poet laureate, first openly lesbian to hold position (245:15)
  • “Our third house section, when we get to the ruler of the fifth house in the third in the next episode is huge.” (243:51)
• Tennessee Williams: Capricorn rising, Saturn/Venus in Taurus 5th (245:59)
  • Classic playwright, themes of “desire vs. loneliness or desire vs. constraint” (248:20)
• William S. Burroughs: Aquarius rising, Saturn stellium in Gemini 5th, mutual reception with Mercury (248:49)
  • Pioneer of queer/explicit literature; loneliness and sexual themes (252:34)
• Yoko Ono: Libra rising, Venus in Aquarius 5th (254:10)
  • Avant-garde performance artist, notorious for divisive/innovative art, performance pieces about love/peace, court battles over inheritance/children (259:57)
• Charles Bukowski: Taurus rising, Venus/Saturn in Virgo 5th (260:42)
  • “Dirty realism”; creative output built on the mundane/ugly, “Don’t try” philosophy (264:52)
• Frida Kahlo: Sun in 12th, Jupiter (ruler of 5th) in 12th, honorary Asc ruler/5th case (268:11)
  • Creative self-portraiture; art from suffering/limitation (269:50)
• bell hooks: Gemini rising, Mercury (Asc ruler) in Libra 5th (stellium) (277:43)
  • Prolific writer, later career focus on love as transformative force in society (279:26)
  • “She’s broadening [love] to be like, you know, a way through which to improve society.” (280:16)
• Audre Lorde: Libra rising, Venus in Aquarius 5th (stellium) (271:42)
  • Author, theorist, activist; erotic/joy as life force (273:50)
  • “Our erotic knowledge empowers us, becomes a lens through which we scrutinize all aspects of our existence…” (274:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The ruler of the Ascendant was sometimes referred to as the captain of the ship. So it’s as if the captain of your life’s ship…is directing you towards those topics.” – Chris Brennan (02:33)
• “Sometimes an Ascendant ruler in a house draws your life focus there—but the content can be negated or inverted if a malefic is strongly present.” – Leisa Schaim (27:13)
• “A reliable way to locate the life focus is when there’s an Ascendant ruler in a house.” – Leisa Schaim (47:53)
• “Pleasure and enjoyment, things you do for fun, is also a fifth house topic.” (09:49)
• “You can reliably locate the life focus when there's an ascendant ruler in a house to at least one of those topics.” (47:53)
• On comedy: “Sometimes, when the first house is connected with the fifth, we see instances of making yourself the butt of the joke…” (116:36)

Selected Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:28 – Episode purpose: Making the fifth house real through example charts
• 04:23 – Review of the core fifth house topics
• 06:29–14:29 – Discussion of children/creative figures: Judy Blume, Walt Disney
• 17:55–22:20 – Thomas Beatie, being a pioneering trans parent
• 24:29–31:58 – Childfree choices/Saturn: Michelle Oberdorf; multiple children, e.g., Elon Musk
• 45:49–57:57 – Sex/sexuality: Wilt Chamberlain, orientation, and groundbreaking queer writers
• 70:27–80:20 – Sex industry, pornography, transgressive art, negative examples
• 84:11–103:56 – Games: chess (Kasparov), sports (Tiger Woods, Danica Patrick), poker, horse racing, game show hosts
• 110:42–147:42 – Comedy section: Lucille Ball, Johnny Knoxville, Tom Green, Kevin Hart, notable comedic self-deprecation, social impact (Dick Gregory)
• 160:33–201:35 – Actors: evolution of creative stardom, sexuality in Hollywood, generational impact, child actors, career-defining roles (e.g., Brokeback Mountain), parenting and legacy
• 202:25–215:33 – Directors: creative leadership, Spielberg’s child-centered themes, collaboration, breaking new ground (Bigelow)
• 217:23–241:30 – Musicians & entertainers: creative performance as destiny, creative philanthropy
• 242:31–285:42 – Authors & intellectuals: creative writing, sexual orientation and art, performance art as activism, transformative concepts of love/joy

Flow & Tone

Chris and Leisa maintain a conversational yet highly analytical tone, blending in depth chart interpretation with lively storytelling and cultural references. Their mutual expertise, humor, and candor make complex astrological ideas accessible. They consistently link symbolic theory back to empirical reality, reinforcing the educational purpose of the podcast.

Final Reflections

• The ruler of the Ascendant in the fifth house manifests the full spectrum of fifth house topics in widely varying—yet archetypally consistent—ways, depending on the person’s context and the house’s planetary tenants and rulers.
• Chart placements can point toward BOTH the affirmation and negation/inversion of house topics.
• Notable patterns: creative prominence, public enjoyment, self-deprecation, child-focus (variously as parents, writers, or literal children), luck, pleasure, and, sometimes, challenge or struggle via malefics.
• The series will continue with episode three: the ruler of the fifth in all twelve houses.

Next Episode Preview

Part 3: The Ruler of the Fifth House in the 12 Houses — examining the interconnection between creativity, pleasure, children, and the entire horoscope.

Research Acknowledgments

Special thanks to Orla, Lindsay Turner, Camille Michelle Gray, and the Astrology Podcast patrons for their research contributions and support.

For more information, resources, and bonus research notes, join the Patreon community at patreon.com/astrologypodcast.