The Astrology Podcast

Episode: The 5th House in Astrology, Part 3: Ruler of the 5th House

Host: Chris Brennan

Guest: Leisa Schaim

Date: November 6, 2025

Overview

In the third installment of The Astrology Podcast's deep-dive into the 5th house, host Chris Brennan and guest astrologer Leisa Schaim shift focus to the crucial topic of the ruler of the 5th house placed in each of the 12 houses. Through a rapid-fire succession of over 50 timely and memorable chart examples, they demonstrate how this placement interweaves the core themes of the 5th house—creativity, children, pleasure, sex, fun, and risk—with other houses’ areas, revealing a vast range of biographical outcomes. The episode is charged with practical chart reading insights, astrological nuance, humor, and rich technical detail.

Key Themes & Structure

• Why Rulers Matter:
  Understanding the ruler of a house reveals how that house’s topics travel into other sectors of life, often with substantial and specific biographical implications.

• Approach:
  The episode is highly example-driven, featuring celebrities, public figures, and even some anonymous cases to illustrate each potential combination. Patterns, nuances, and recurring chart themes are highlighted.

• Layered Interpretation:
  The hosts constantly emphasize the importance of context—sect, planetary strength, aspects, and the multiple signification of houses.

Segment Breakdown & Notable Examples

[00:00–02:32] Introduction & Core Methodology

• Chris:
  “This is where it becomes really interesting...when we get to the rulers of the houses.”

• Leisa:
  “It just gets a lot more interesting and complex when you bring in all the different houses connecting with the fifth house, because it just shows a much greater range of specific subtopics connected with the fifth house and how that plays out in different people's lives and biographies.”

[02:32–32:58] Ruler of the 5th in the 1st House

Main Biographical Themes:

• 5th house matters become central to self-identity, physical experience, or even physical body.
• Classic themes: public personas built on sex, pleasure, children, love, creativity; sometimes actual bodily impact from 5th house issues.

Notable Examples:

• Marie Antoinette: [02:32–05:52]
  Ruler of 5th (Mars) in 1st (Cancer). Pressures of royal expectation to produce heirs; public scrutiny over sexuality; repeated loss/trauma with children.

  • “Her identity was partially wrapped up in ... not being able to have children or her not being able to carry [his] children.” —Chris

• Dr. Ruth Westheimer: [05:57–08:22]
  Libra 5th, Venus (ruler of 5th) in Gemini near Ascendant — her public identity blended with open, joyous sex education.

• Dan Bilzerian: [08:23–12:47]
  Ruler of 5th (Saturn) in Libra conjunct Ascendant—identity as playboy, lavish parties, near-death experience from sex/partying.

  • “He literally almost died... from things related to sex. Nearly dying while...having sex.” —Chris

• Gianna Jessen & Norma McCorvey (‘Jane Roe’): [12:48–19:55]
  Both with ruler of 5th in 1st. Life stories inherently connected to issues of birth, abortion, and reproductive controversy.

• Linda Goodman: [19:56–23:01]
  Author of “Love Signs,” her identity and career blend astrology and the topic of love.

• Chaz Bono: [23:01–27:05]
  Public identity tied to sexuality/gender transformation; forcibly and voluntarily coming out matching Venus/Saturn cycles.

• Mackenzie Scott: [27:05–30:23]
  Philanthropy as 5th house (good doing) central to personal image after divorce.

• Kevin Hart, Donatella Versace: [30:24–34:09]
  Humorous self-deprecation; personal name as creative/family brand.

Memorable Quote:

“...sometimes the first house represents self in the chart... This is a really literal example... he is often making jokes about himself in his comedy routine.” —Chris (re: Kevin Hart) [32:00]

[34:10–51:46] Ruler of the 5th in the 2nd House

Themes:

• Money/livelihood is directly tied to 5th house: sex industry, artistic creation, romance novels, music, gambling.
• Can manifest as both gain and loss, security or difficulty, depending on conditions.

Notable Examples:

• Heidi Fleiss, Annie Sprinkle, John Holmes, Rock Hudson [34:09–43:28]
  Sex work, pornography, queer identity and financial or health risk/concealment.

• Rupert Murdoch: [43:35–45:28]
  Children/5th house as agents of financial legacy (inheritance battles).

• Dr. Dre: [45:28–47:06]
  Wealth via music and brand tied to 5th house pleasures.

• Barbara Cartland: [47:12–48:48]
  Epic romance novelist—“Her livelihood was connected to that creative artistic output, but also literally the topic of romance as the fifth house.” —Leisa

• Renoir vs. Debussy: [48:48–51:46]
  Artistic brilliance—one achieves wealth/fame (bonified), the other struggles (conjoined Saturn).

[51:53–68:24] Ruler of the 5th in the 3rd House

Themes:

• Siblings and 5th house topics (competition, creative talent, fame)
• Writing/communication about 5th house matters; sexuality, children, creative arts in publications.

Notable Examples:

• Serena Williams: [53:42–57:55]
  Sibling rivalry/support at the pinnacle of the tennis world: “There would be no Serena if there wasn’t a Venus. She burst open that door and I ran through.” —Serena Williams (quoted) [56:08]

• Ben Affleck: [58:47–61:12]
  Creative writing/acting career intertwined with childhood friend (Matt Damon); “...childhood neighborhood friend.” —Leisa

• Hugh Hefner, Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick, Adrienne Rich: [61:13–64:47]
  Founders/writers on sexuality and identity; importance of 3rd house (writing, communication) in 5th house industries.

• T. Berry Brazelton: [64:52–67:27]
  Pediatrician whose breakthrough was seeing babies' (5th) nonverbal communication (3rd: “babies communicate through their behavior”).

[68:26–104:32] Ruler of the 5th in the 4th House (and the IC in the 5th)

Themes:

• Creativity, pleasure, children, or sexuality thoroughly interwoven with home life, parenting lineage—or hidden/private matters.
• “Nepo baby” and family dynasty charts; home-based hobbies.

Notable Examples:

• Tori Spelling, Margaret Qualley, Sofia Coppola: [68:26–75:04][88:54–93:24]
  Children of parents in the arts; familial connections (sometimes nepotism) create career paths.

• Joe Rogan, Jay Leno: [75:05–77:43]
  Creating venues or collecting (hobbies) at home.

• Malala Yousafzai, Jean Genet, Harvey Milk: [77:43–88:50]
  Parents’ values/struggles shape 5th house outcomes; home as site for outreach or activism.

• Billie Jean King, Ola Bimpe, Charles Lindbergh, user story: [93:24–104:14]
  IC in 5th—supportive creative homes or, in Lindbergh’s case, stark tragedy (child abducted and killed—Mars on IC in 5th by transit).

[104:32–139:00] Ruler of the 5th in the 5th House

Themes:

• “Doubled” fifth house, planet in domicile/exaltation: often prodigious talent or extreme manifestation in some 5th house area; autonomy, excellence, or notoriety.

Notable Examples:

• Ariana Grande, Diana Ross, Matthew McConaughey, Joey Chestnut, Nikki Arnstein:
  Major creative talents (music, acting), outsized personalities around pleasure/fun, even champion competitive eating.

• Paul Germain (“Rugrats” creator):
  Children’s TV writer/producer with Mercury in Gemini—his three kids also writers.

• Nadya Suleman (“Octomom”):
  Mercury in 5th: literal multiplicity—gave birth to octuplets.

• Prince Charles, Tony Wolf:
  Issues of legacy, succession, non-traditional relationships (open extramarital, mistress).

Quotes:

“When a planet’s in its own sign in its own house, it sometimes just stands out or excels in that area as being particularly gifted or particularly skilled at that thing.” —Chris [104:32]

[139:00–159:37] Ruler of the 5th in the 6th House

Themes:

• Fifth house topics entangled with work, routine, illness, subordinates, or difficulty.

Notable Examples:

• Maria Montessori, King Louis XVI:
  Developed schools after working with children with disabilities; delayed (Saturn, retrograde) sexual/childbearing issues in monarchy.

• Monica Lewinsky:
  Affiliated with sex/romance in the workplace.

• Theodor Adorno:
  Famous philosophy describing “the culture industry”—blurring line between work and pleasure.
  “Amusement under late capitalism is the prolongation of work.” —Adorno [149:40]

• Sidney Biddle Barrows (“Mayflower Madam”):
  Managed sex workers as employees (5th–6th connection).

• Eazy-E, Maria Shriver, Nike employee anonymous chart:
  Health impacts from sex, secret child of spouse and household employee. Sports company employment as literal 5th–6th.

[159:37–198:10] Ruler of the 5th in the 7th, 8th, and 9th Houses

Ruler in 7th (Marriage/Partners/Others):

• Step-parenting, collaborative creativity, public affairs/partnership scandals.
• Ex: Jill Biden, Patrick Watson, Steven Spielberg, Ben Affleck, Christian Dior.

Ruler in 8th (Death/Inheritance/Other’s Money):

• Child loss, inheritance, sex/death overlap, collective fears/paranoia.
• Ex: Elon Musk (child died; motivated by “death of humanity” fears), Queen Elizabeth II (issues of succession), David Carradine (died during sex act—8th/fatality connection), Reid Erikson (philanthropy—other people’s money to help queer movement).

Ruler in 9th (Belief, Education, Foreign, Law):

• Children/pleasure issues entwined with belief, travel/migration, or education.
• Ex: Gwen Stefani (children with dual US/UK citizenship); Judith Butler (gender performativity theory, Jupiter in Leo: “performance” as gender), Anita Bryant & Andrea Dworkin (sexuality and religious/political crusades).

[198:10–242:38] Ruler of 5th in 10th, 11th, & 12th Houses

Ruler in 10th (Career/Reputation):

• Public creative, romantic, or child-related career—child actors, authors, artists.
• Ex: Beverly Cleary, Drew Barrymore, Billie Jean King, Leonardo DiCaprio.

Ruler in 11th (Friends/Groups/Social Change):

• Creative contributions to community, children’s groups, activism, art collectives.
• Ex: Sally Struthers (children’s charities), Fred Rogers (“Mr. Rogers Neighborhood”), Stevie Nicks (band romance drama), Dr. Drew (radio sex advice with a friend and collaborator), Salvador Dali (surrealist group).

Ruler in 12th (Hidden, Undoing, Enemies, Isolation):

• Secret children, loss, exile, imprisonment, careers built from or inspired by struggle or marginalization.
• Ex: Joe Biden, Catherine de Medici (lost children), Howie Mandel (lockdown podcast with daughter), Jodie Foster (celebrity stalker disrupts college), Pamela Anderson (sex tape scandal), Arnold Schwarzenegger & Tiger Woods (hidden affairs and consequences), King Farouk (exile), Bobby Fischer (chess war with national “enemies”), Jeffrey Epstein (conviction, death in prison), Laverne Cox (played character in prison).

Notable Quotes & Astrological Insights

On House Ruler Connections

“When you see crossovers between two parts of the life, it can create much more highly specific delineations involving the fifth house.” —Chris [01:47]

On Patterns & Complexity

“Oftentimes, if you look at the house ruler placement and then look at the ruler of that placement, you see further pieces of the story.” —Leisa [19:29]

On Specific Chart Examples

“She’s an older lady at the time she became super famous...very enthusiastically and freely talking about sex and giving advice about that.” —Leisa (about Dr. Ruth) [06:59]

“In this instance, when there’s a connection between the second house of money and finances and the fifth house of sex, sometimes sex work and things related...can come into play.” —Chris [35:05]

“Ruler of the 5th in the 1st, there’s a strong focus and a clear ability to go forward with fifth house things.” —Leisa (re: Octomom) [127:58]

On Narrative and Falsity

“Sometimes what one feels about the connections between those houses is still an important part of their story, even if every piece of it isn’t totally true.” —Leisa (re: Jean Genet) [84:17]

On Methods and Learning

“It's almost like astrology works...but also figuring out what the limits are and how to phrase things in a way that's broad...then seeing how the specifics work out.” —Chris [68:00]

Final Reflections

[307:24–315:35] Series Summary, Research Methodology, Calls for Community Contribution

• The episode (and preceding two) demonstrates how house ruler placements serve as a key to unraveling life themes.
• The research process: OCD-level example gathering, biographical immersion, watching movies, note-sharing, and open acknowledgment of chart nuance and context.
• Listeners are encouraged to contribute further examples and insights in the YouTube comments, forming an ongoing research dialogue.

Closing Remarks

"I hope this research helps to influence and give people a good idea about what the fifth house means in astrology and to ground it in some actual empirical research...the most important part is showing the empirical process of looking at people that have important placements with the fifth house and then letting the biography speak to us.” —Chris [314:38]

This summary omits repetition, tangents, advertisements, and non-content sections, emphasizing the rich, example-driven understanding of the 5th house and its rulers as explored by Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim.