The Athletic NBA Daily – April 9, 2026

Episode Theme:
All-Perimeter Defense Team with Fred Katz
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Guest: Fred Katz

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the under-celebrated world of NBA perimeter defense. With guest Fred Katz, the team discusses Fred’s annual All-Perimeter Defense Team selections, the overlooked value of elite guard and wing defense, Derek White’s unconventional role with the Celtics, and broader conversations about defensive awards, positional recognition, and the impact of defense on the game’s outcome.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brooklyn Nets’ “Tanking” and NBA Development Culture

(03:08 – 11:11)

• Fred opens with an anecdote about his friend Wade—"the only remaining" Nets fan—and the psychological turmoil caused by the Nets winning meaningless games, possibly losing lottery positioning.
  • "Wade is having a breakdown because the Nets... might are in danger of falling to maybe fifth lottery positioning after what was supposed to be a glorious tank season." – Fred Katz (03:10)
• Discussion about the perverse incentives around tanking, where teams play or bench certain players based purely on chasing lottery odds, even at the expense of development.
  • "What a sad place for the league when we're talking about... you can't be playing Day Ron Sharp in fourth quarters. Way too good of a rebounder, which he is. That's malpractice." – Fred Katz (05:29)
• Arguments for giving prospects real NBA minutes, development over strict asset protection.

2. Jagor Gilman and Defensive Three-Second Calls

(09:13 – 10:43)

• Fred shares a quirky stat: Nets rookie guard Jagor Gilman got called for an unusual number of defensive three-second violations.
  • "Never seen a guard get called for so many defensive 3 second calls. The Nets in general just get like a ton of defensive three second calls." – Fred Katz (09:13)
• Minor talk about Gilman's potential, shooting, and passing.

3. Defining and Selecting the All-Perimeter Defense Team

(14:42 – 18:56)

• Fred details the process—watching hours of film, cutting a broad list to 10 total players (split between first and second team).
  • "I think I had 66 guys on my initial list. And then I was like, okay, I think I just named every perimeter defender in the NBA who's not a minus." – Fred Katz (15:41)
• Explains the anxiety of leaving deserving players off—Chris Dunn as the toughest final cut.
• Players like Derrick White, OG Anunoby, Scotty Barnes, and Asar Thompson were “slam dunks” for him.
• Notable quote:
  • "If you want to vote [Chris Dunn] real all defense, like, no argument, he's great." – Fred Katz (18:52)

4. The Line Between Perimeter and Interior Defense

(18:56 – 21:08)

• Zena asks criteria for who counts as a perimeter defender, especially with “big wings” like Barnes and Anunoby guarding centers at times.
  • "Versatility is something that gets you onto the team. Probably shouldn't eliminate you from the team." – Fred Katz (19:40)
• It's about primary assignments and roles, not actual listed position—big men like Wemby and Bam are excluded from perimeter voting.

5. Derrick White: “Boston’s Best Center” and an Outlier Rim Protector

(21:26 – 27:20)

• The Celtics’ scheme now treats Derick White as their “dominant defensive center.”
  • "Derrick White is their dominant defensive center." – Fred Katz (21:40)
• Dave: why isn’t White in DPOY talk, given his rim protection as a non-big?
  • "You don't get compensated for how hard your job is. You get compensated for how much of an impact you make." – Fred Katz (22:01)
• Fred compares White’s weakside/rim-protecting role to prime Giannis:
  • "He's been like the guard version of Giannis." – Fred Katz (23:13)
• Insights:
  • Boston intentionally stations White as a “rover” in the weakside corner to maximize rim help, an extreme rarity for a 6’4” player.
  • "He's going to become the second player in NBA history of his height to block 1.3 shots a game. Just the second. Dwyane Wade's the only other guy who has done this." – Fred Katz (26:14)
  • White averages almost as many blocks as fouls (1.3 vs. 1.6), elite for his position.

6. Defense as 50% of the Game? The Offense-Defense Value Gap

(27:20 – 31:14)

• Discussion triggered by Wembanyama’s public claim that “defense is 50% of the game.” Draymond Green's response agrees, but hosts debate if this matches reality in MVP and awards voting.
  • "We tend to focus on wherever the ball goes. So we tend to focus on the guy who missed what would have been the game winning shot as opposed to the guy who stopped the game winning shot." – Fred Katz (28:26)
• Defense gets undervalued in highlight culture and legacy conversation (“make or miss league” skepticism).

7. Awards Talk: Defensive Player of the Year, Clutch, and Positional Recognition

(31:14 – 38:01)

• Fred strongly advocates for a Perimeter Defender of the Year award, borrowed from how baseball added the Cy Young for pitchers.
  • "Last year [Jalen Williams] went on... and was like, all these bigs are winning. There should be a perimeter defensive player of the year. And I was like, he’s right." – Fred Katz (33:01)
  • "The league might be positionless, but it’s not roleless.” – Fred Katz (36:04)
• The hosts are deeply critical of making all-defense and all-NBA teams “positionless,” arguing it warps recognition in a sport where roles are still distinct.
  • "Positions are there so that like a novice can understand the game... And that's still how it works in the NBA, believe it or not." – Dave DuFour (35:34)
  • "The expected rim protection [from that position] might as well not be there." – Fred Katz (37:11)
• The panel argues for requiring positional balance on teams and for greater emphasis on the unique difficulty of perimeter defense.

Notable Quotes

• On Derrick White’s Defensive Role:
  "Boston is using him... where they have intentionally pulled him off of the other team's best perimeter player... using him in that sort of weak side corner roving... Just take away that side, take away the passing lanes, come over and help, take away the rim. And he's 6 foot 4 and you're not supposed to be in that role at 6 foot 4." – Fred Katz (24:49)

• On Defensive Awards:
  "I want perimeter defender of the year... It's similar to baseball, where they realized... pitchers just weren't winning [MVP], so they created the Cy Young." – Fred Katz (32:18, 33:01)

• Basketball as “Roleless?”
  "The league might be positionless, but it's not roleless." – Fred Katz (36:04)

• On Value of Rim Protection by Guards:
  "If it's a Zubatz is a good defensive center and a massive human being and opponents are shooting 55% against him at the rim and they're shooting 55% against Derrick White at the rim... that Derrick White stat, even though it's the same number, is so much more valuable because it is coming from a place where you normally... might as well not be there." – Fred Katz (37:11)

Important Timestamps

• [03:08] – Fred’s Nets “tanking” story; conversation on player development and incentives
• [09:13] – Jagor Gilman’s odd stat (defensive 3-second violations)
• [15:32] – Fred explains how he compiles his All-Perimeter Defense Team
• [17:29] – The Chris Dunn vs. Dyson Daniels decision
• [18:56] – Defining “perimeter defense,” Scotty Barnes/OG Anunoby eligibility
• [21:26] – Derrick White as “best center” and All-Defense linchpin
• [23:13] – The “guard version of Giannis”
• [26:14] – Unheard-of shot-blocking from a 6'4" guard
• [28:26] – Value of defensive plays and “game-winning stops”
• [31:14] – Critique of the Clutch Player of the Year award
• [32:18] – Advocacy for “Perimeter Defender of the Year” award
• [36:04] – “Positionless” NBA vs. real roles

Memorable Moments

• Hilarious lament over the Nets’ “tanking” travails and the welfare of the single remaining fan, affectionately named “Wade.”
• Fred’s passionate and clear breakdown of why Derrick White’s defensive value is historic for a guard, likening him to “the guard version of Giannis.”
• A deep basketball-nerd dive into the importance (and difficulty) of properly recognizing perimeter defense with the current awards structure.
• The panel’s unified plea to return positions to award voting, blending technical analysis with humor and storytelling.

Episode Tone

Insightful, analytical, and conversational. The episode balances light, self-aware humor—especially around the Nets—with deep-dive basketball nerdery, compelling stats, and a clear love for the “defensive glue guys” who rarely get the mainstream spotlight.

Summary by The Athletic NBA Daily Podcast Summarizer