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Josh Robbins
Good morning and welcome to the Athletic NBA Daily. Coming up, we have got Josh Robbins of the Athletic to break down all things about the Orlando Magic. The big, big, big move. Probably one of the biggest moves of the off season was the Magic trading for Desmond Bane. A lot will be said about the hole that they traded in order to acquire a player like Desmond Bain. But from your perspective, why is it that they did that trade? In this moment right now, heading into the season.
NBA Analyst
He ought to make them much better offensively. And I'm pausing because I'm not sure that we know exactly why this was the moment to do it. I suspect, and I think they have alluded to this, that they felt like this was the time to really show their roster into an equal extent their fans, that they are purposely setting another step forward as the goal. It was so fascinating. I was there at the after they exited the first round, you know, battered and injured against a better, deeper, more experienced Celtics team. And that next, that day, that next full day, they were in Orlando, I spoke with Jeff Weltman, interviewed him, and for Jeff Weltman it was a stunning comment to say where he said, and I'm paraphrasing him, where he said it's time to take that next step. Nothing is off the table, I think was the phrase he used.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
And for, for Jeff Weltman, who I've covered now for I guess seven, eight years, that's a very rare thing to say. And so who was he signaling to? Was he signaling to the fans? Certainly. Was he signaling to Paolo? Was he signaling to Franz, to the entire roster, to rival GMs to say, hey, I'm looking for, to upgrade, we're.
Josh Robbins
Open for business, Right?
NBA Analyst
Yes, well, certainly he said that and that is what happened. And so Desmond Bain ought to do everything and more offensively that they hoped KCP was going to do when they signed him last year. He ought to shoot close to 40%. You ought to handle the ball a lot more than has been discussed in the media. And the question is he's a willing defender, but he's not the defender KCP was and is. And so how much does he elevate the offense? Probably quite a bit. And how much does the absence of KCP degrade the defense? Remains to be seen. So a gutsy move, one that after this upcoming lottery, if Phoenix and Washington are both horrendous in the year ahead, could turn into a lottery pick that they gave away.
Josh Robbins
Yeah, that, that swap is, I mean if you go and look and read it, the swap that they gave out, it's incredibly convoluted. But I'm glad you boiled it down to it's either Phoenix or Washington. If they're both bad, might ends up being, might end up being a lottery pick. The, the Bain situation is interesting because I think so much of it has been, so much of the conversation has been about value.
Co-Host
Right.
Josh Robbins
How could you give up this much for a player who hasn't been an all Star before? And truthfully I think that's, that's boiling it down to something that it's not accurate to just talk about the value from that perspective because they were also getting off of KCP's contract, which probably required them to attach a first round pick. And they also, in the climate of today's cba, where getting a player of Desmond Bain's caliber is incredibly difficult, doing so using first round picks is a testament to what you believe your stars can do. In Paolo Banchero and in Franz Wagner. Those guys had injury riddled seasons last year. In fact, the Magic in general were decimated by injuries. Jalen Suggs didn't finish out the year for him. That's a massive part of this. Who is the player that has to take a step forward for them next year as they reach into their hopefully title window.
NBA Analyst
So I think it's Jalen Suggs and for him it's twofold. A, he's got to stay healthy which to his credit he plays so hard.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
And is so gritty and tough and that it's going to be difficult to stay healthy for him. And it makes him an all NBA caliber defender but it also makes him more susceptible to injury. And in addition to that, he's got to return to where he was as a three point shooter two seasons ago. He's got to be somewhere close. Well, as high as possible, but at least you would hope. 38%.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
So I think that if last season taught the basketball world nothing else, it's that the intangibles and the defense that Jalen Suggs brings were undervalued by the rest of the league.
Josh Robbins
Absolutely.
NBA Analyst
So if he's healthy and remains so and takes that step forward offensively, then they're really in business.
Co-Host
Yeah.
Josh Robbins
And like between. Between Suggs, between Bain, who I'm glad you mentioned the ball handling because this is a guy who like last year for the grizzlies operated in over 400 pick and rolls like this is a guy who pretty frequently handled the ball for Memphis outside of John Morant. And now they also added Tyus Jones. So they have three guys who ball handling wise should be able to alleviate some pressure off of Paolo and off of Franz to create everything. What are the expectations for those guys though for Paulo and Franz heading into this season? Because I think the, the roster has been made to a point. I'm sure they can improve in other ways too, but it's made to bring out the best in those guys. What is the expectation heading into next year for Paolo and France?
NBA Analyst
Palo for sure has shown he can play his best in playoff games. I think that is maybe the most stunning takeaway of the five game exit to Boston.
Co-Host
Yeah.
Josh Robbins
Last spring and, and the series versus Cleveland.
Co-Host
Right.
Josh Robbins
I mean he was.
NBA Analyst
That's true. That's true. But he did. Yes. And I would say that he did what he did against Boston with less support.
Josh Robbins
Yes, absolutely.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
Thugs wasn't there. Mo Wagner was not there. So they firmly believe he is an all NBA caliber player and a big part of that is staying healthy and fulfilling your potential. So they're, they strongly believe, and I think they're right that he has that potential. Franz Wagner, he has everything to his game.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
Except for a three point shot. And at the end of last year, particularly after he came back from a torn oblique.
Josh Robbins
There was a lot of torn obliques on the Orlando Magic.
NBA Analyst
Right. It's almost like a baseball team. And, and which is strange. But after that there was a funkiness to his three point shot that I think is fair to say is concerning.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
So he's got, he proved after Paolo got his injury to the point between where Franz got his oblique tear that he can be an all star.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
And so yes, he's got to stay healthy, which as with every number one and two option for any contender you have to have, but that three point shot has got to creep toward league average and then in the years after that go above that.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
But they feel very confident in their top two guys being potentially an elite number one guy and an elite number two guy.
Josh Robbins
Was it at all coincidental? And I'm curious to get your thoughts about this specifically because it might be more narrative driven than anything else, but you know, Paulo obviously started out the season incredibly well last year, got hurt. Then Franz jumped in and was just incredible. Look like he was on pace to become an all star. He gets hurt and then once Franz leaves and Paolo comes back, Paulo's the one like is there anything coincident, Is it coincidental at all that they played their best basketball while the other one was hurt?
NBA Analyst
No, because. No, it's not coincidental. But not. And I think it is fair to question whether they can coexist.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
And have a high, an upper level offense because that's something the Magic have not had in this Franz Paulo Suggs era of theirs. That's a fair question and yet to be determined. And one of the reasons why it's so important to, for both Franz and Paolo to upgrade their own three point games, but really to surround them with three point shooters.
Josh Robbins
Absolutely.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
And they probably don't have enough three point shooting even with the additions of, of Desmond Bain and Tyus Jones. But when each of them was out, the other had to have more attempts and had to be relied on more and was involved in more actions and had the ball in his hands more often. So yes, his, his scoring, each individual's scoring average was going to be better. I don't think that the efficiency was necessarily better.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
But they had more, more reps, more at bats. But you know, now as I think about it more they. That is a question that the Magic as an organization and as a coaching staff have to answer. Can an offense with Paolo Bancaro and Franz Wagner have enough talent around them, enough, particularly shooting talent, to have an upper level top 10 offensive rating team, which they have not come anywhere close to over the last three years? Yeah.
Josh Robbins
And if you look at, I mean, the fact that they have went out and made this Bane trade, I think more than, more than even entering this competitive moment for this Magic team, it's also, hey, let's see how good Paolo and Franz can be when there is shooting around them. When you know, their, their driving game, the driving lanes can be opened up for them and they can weaponize how strong they are because they're both such incredibly physical players and how they can utilize that skill to be able to drive an offense? I think that's one of the most fascinating questions with this Magic team. Next year is like, how much better can their offense be with Desmond Bain in the fold, not just because of Bane, but because of the trickle down effect with everybody else. They also.
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Josh Robbins
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NBA Analyst
Edu. Welcome foreign.
Josh Robbins
Depth. And that depth is worth mentioning. A bit of a log jam at the center spot with three centers who I think are very interesting players, and Wendell Carter Jr. Gogo Batase and Mo Wagner. Jonathan Isaac should be mentioned as well. This team went out and made its big trade already. Do you expect them to be players in the trade market at the deadline this year?
NBA Analyst
Yes, I think that they're going to have to continue to make calls after that Desmond Bain trade. I wouldn't put almost anything past them. Having said all that, they are very tightly hemmed in now in, in an age of a first and second apron where things are going to get very complicated for them very quickly. They already are complicated. They've got a bankero start of the 26, 27 season. He's going to be at a max salary. That's when that new extension of his kicks in Franz already now max salary. Bain Suggs, 32,33 million a year players and that's just this year. So yeah, the positive for them is that they've got four very high level young players. The negative is, is that you have to pay for talent and production. And with those that talent they now are very boxed in as to what they can do with their roster. So much so that right now they're at the point where they can't fill that 15th roster spot.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
Because they're, they're hard capped. They use their, their mid level exception on Tyus Jones and. Or was it Mo Wagner? Either way they use their mid level exception which hard caps them at the first apron. They, it can't exceed it under any circumstances. So they're going to have to wait just to fill their 15th roster. That's, that's an example of what I'm trying to convey. Yeah. That they're going to need even more artistry to augment the roster with less optionality.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
Than they had before this and less.
Josh Robbins
First round picks than they had before this too. And.
Co-Host
Right.
Josh Robbins
And that's. I think that puts a level of pressure, as you said, financially to some of the secondary rotation players for them to really develop. I'm looking at Anthony Black, I'm looking at Tristan De Silva as two players who they need to pan out into rotation players for this team. What are you, are they the swing factors for this team next season? Is it Anthony Black and Tristan De Silva?
NBA Analyst
I. Yes. But, but I still think that the biggest X factor is Jalen Suggs because of the potential of he's got to stay healthy and he's got to hit his threes as all the guys do. But from a roster construction perspective, the most fascinating player now on that roster is Anthony Black. Here's a former 6 overall pick who is 6, 8, 6 9, maybe 6, 7. Yeah, he's, he's already at an all defensive level.
Co-Host
Right.
NBA Analyst
Can he become a spot up three point shooter and can he become a ball handler like he was projected to possibly be coming out of his draft? And I'll just tell you, when I go into any of these arenas, a lot of these scouts and executives still equate me as someone like a ma as the writer who covers the Magic. Old habits die hard. Old perceptions die hard. And they're not wrong. But when they talk about the Magic, which is what I'm trying to say, often they bring up Anthony Black and they see in him potentially found money for the Magic, that if he just gets to, to his best self and he's only 21, I think so he's still got time. Then it's found money for the Magic. They would suddenly have five players, 28 or younger who are upper level players and there's only a handful of teams in the league who have upper, at least five upper level players on their roster. So I think he's the most fascinating player on the whole team.
Josh Robbins
I wouldn't discount Tristan De Silva either though. I think, I think he has. He showed in moments last year his ability to score the ball and I mean the creation was very interesting for me even as a rookie. And I'm very curious to see how he fits into what the Magic want to do. Just because to your point about three point shooting earlier, this is a team that needs guys who are going to alleviate some of the pressure off of their stars. And De Silva is a guy who at the very least can shoot the ball and you know, catch and shoot shots are very important for this Magic team heading forward.
NBA Analyst
Well, I agree and I don't mean to, to mitigate the importance that Tristan is going to have because he is an important player and they're going to need him to produce and he plays the game in a way that makes sense. That's just natural for him.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
Having said that, again, Anthony Black was the sixth overall pick in a loaded draft.
Josh Robbins
He has more potential. Absolutely.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
So. But yes, I mean, you're so right. We were joking in the break. It would be funny if one of us said no. I totally disagree with you.
Josh Robbins
Yeah, well, you know what? That's actually what I was trying to do.
NBA Analyst
Just.
Josh Robbins
No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
NBA Analyst
But you're, but I, I have to confess, you're, you're 100% right that Tristan is an important player for them.
Co-Host
Yeah.
Josh Robbins
It. They're they're a very deep team. And to your point about, you know, first round picks earlier and kind of having to work around the margins moving forward, that's why these younger players are so important to this Magic team. It's not just, you know, they need extra shooting, they need extra spacing. They need guys who can defend and play in the identity that they want. But it's also long term future. This team, they have to have a path forward once they become ultra expensive with that core 4. Look into your crystal ball, Josh. In May, June, July, what is the most realistic outcome for this Magic team?
NBA Analyst
So I think the most realistic outcome for them is to get to the second round.
Co-Host
Okay.
NBA Analyst
Most realistic. That's not their ceiling. Their ceiling is the Eastern Conference finals. I think that's a legitimate possibility. Now, they're not the favorite in the East. They're not the set, the runner up favorite in the East. You know those two, the two teams who are. That are Cleveland and New York, correct?
Co-Host
Yeah, absolutely.
NBA Analyst
I mean, I think we would agree on that. But progress for this team is to get out of the first round. Would they like to do better than that? Of course. And given how lethal their defense is, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they get to the conference finals. But for, for such a young team, where the two young, two stars are young, a second round appearance would be, would be progress. Now, what is the floor? Well, assuming that they stay healthy, the floor would be a first round exit, which is projectionable considering that their offense is not lights out, or at least it hasn't been so far. So as all these coaches who I've ever covered, and there have been a lot of them would always say you got to be able to do two things well come playoff time, they know they can defend. Can they score and can they score when the other team is confining them to the half court and when the other team is trying for 48 minutes to really lock down. And that was their, in addition, injuries, their Achilles heel the last two years. And that's the hump that they have to get over this year.
Josh Robbins
Yeah, that works at a micro and a macro level.
Co-Host
Right?
Josh Robbins
Because at a micro level, it's like players individually have to get better and add multiple things, become more dynamic, become more versatile. And then at a macro level, it's like the team has to become more versatile, more dynamic, have more options to go to. Can they be, can they play bigger? Can they play smaller? Can they shoot? Can they do something when the shot isn't falling. Like there's. That's sort of the chain that you have to go through to see if a team is a real contender. And I think Orlando for this year, that's the process.
NBA Analyst
It's.
Josh Robbins
See how far we can really go with this thing. How does this group look when, you know, all cards are on the table and there are expectations to actually go out and win? They were decimated by injuries last year. They ended up still being 500. This team should be much better than 500 this season. I think the expectation league wide, is for them to be that. Now they just have to go out and prove it.
NBA Analyst
And to do that, as with almost every team in the league, stay healthy. They're.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
You know, there may be, what, two or three teams that can overcome the loss of their second or third. Their second best player. Third best player. Health for these guys is important, but.
Josh Robbins
It is.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
But they have less.
Josh Robbins
Less torn obliques. You know, that would. That would be ideal for this team.
NBA Analyst
Yes.
Co-Host
Yeah.
Josh Robbins
Very, very weird injuries.
NBA Analyst
Josh, I have a theory. May I just cut in?
Josh Robbins
I would love. Actually. I would love a theory on the torn obliques.
Co-Host
Yes.
NBA Analyst
So I do have a theory. One of the re. If we are to assume that they suffered these torn obliques, each of them, Paolo and Franz, when they were driving to the hoop.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
Where they had to. Where they had to twist their torso because they were taking a very difficult shot.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
I think that's not just physiologically possible, but I think it says a lot about the links to the difficulty of the shots they often had to take in the half court.
Josh Robbins
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
And having Desmond Bain and Tyus Jones, who are historically upper level three point shooters, ought to make it easier for Orlando to score in the half court, where there are so many times the last two years where either Paolo or Franz would drive and.
Josh Robbins
Into traffic.
NBA Analyst
Yeah, into traffic.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
Because they got to stock up the paint. And then when they look to try to pass it out to an open person, the people who were open were not knockdown shooters. And so just. I'm sorry to keep blabbering, but one of the knocks on Paolo is that he holds the ball too much or he shoots or takes these difficult shots. Well, a lot of that is a prod, is a product, especially in his case of who he plays alongside.
Josh Robbins
It's true.
Co-Host
Yeah.
NBA Analyst
And you gotta. In today's NBA, you gotta be four out. And it's particularly come playoff time. And that's the question. That's yet another question that they have to answer. Can they be four out right come playoff time.
Josh Robbins
We have solved the oblique saga here for the Orlando Magic. Joshua Robbins Appreciate you man. Thank you so much for tapping in. For everybody who listens to the athletic NBA Daily, we will keep going on with these previews. Appreciate you guys. As always, thank you to Josh. See you guys next time.
NBA Analyst
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Episode Date: September 22, 2025
Host(s): Josh Robbins (The Athletic), Co-Host, NBA Analyst
This episode explores whether the revamped Orlando Magic are poised for a deep playoff run in the 2025-26 NBA season. The discussion centers around the Magic’s bold offseason trade for Desmond Bane, the evolution of their young core (particularly Paolo Banchero, Franz Wagner, and Jalen Suggs), the team's improved roster depth, and the new pressures that come with higher expectations. The hosts and guests analyze how Orlando’s ceiling has changed, the risks the team has taken, and the key factors that will determine their ultimate success.
The episode maintains a professional, analytical tone, balancing optimism about Orlando’s growth with sober realism about roster-building challenges and injury risks. There’s an undercurrent of excitement for the Magic’s ascendance, but the analysts are clear-eyed about the team’s offensive lag, cap limitations, and how much hinges on internal development.
"Are the Magic ready for a deep playoff run?" blends the buzz of Orlando’s transformative offseason with hard truths about what it takes to contend. The Magic have made their move, banking on core superstars, improved shooting, and smart roster filling. The coming season is a test of both their young stars’ growth and the front office’s ability to navigate a tighter cap landscape. At best: a dark-horse finalist. At minimum: a team that expects to go beyond round one—if they stay healthy and find offensive answers at last.