Are the NBA playoffs too physical? + Rockets even series with Warriors

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Are the NBA Playoffs Too Physical? + Rockets Even Series with Warriors Release Date: April 24, 2025

Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni
Guest: Kelly Eco

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, hosts Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, and Esfandiar Baraheni delve into the escalating physicality of the NBA playoffs, focusing on the tense Rockets-Warriors series. They explore key injuries, standout performances, and the impact of officiating on the game's intensity.

2. Jimmy Butler’s Injury and Its Impact

The episode opens with a discussion about Jimmy Butler's unfortunate injury during the Rockets-Warriors Game 2. Butler suffered a pelvic contusion after a hard fall in the first quarter, raising concerns about his availability for Game 3.

• Esfandiar Baraheni (03:13): "Jimmy's gonna get an MRI tomorrow. He's actually flying back tonight, which shows the level of urgency here."

• Dave DuFour (03:13): "Jimmy always feels fine. It's more about pain tolerance and seeing if there's anything else."

The host trio analyzes Butler's playing style, emphasizing his high pain threshold and the nature of his injury as a result of intense, yet not intentionally dirty, play.

3. The Rockets-Warriors Series Overview

With the series tied at one game each, the hosts provide a comprehensive overview of both teams' performances.

• Mike (02:47): "Warriors lost a game and may have lost Jimmy Butler for Game 3. The series is tied one game a piece."

• Zena Keita (05:11): "Cleveland scored 25 points in the first quarter and another 25 in the first six minutes of the second. Their offense is explosive."

The conversation highlights the Rockets' physical approach and the Warriors' defensive strategies, particularly how the Rockets have effectively contained Steph Curry through aggressive defense.

4. Jalen Green’s Stellar Performance

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Jalen Green's remarkable performance in Game 2, where he scored 38 points efficiently and showcased his defensive prowess.

• Kelly Eco (17:29): "Jalen knew he had to bring his A-game and finding a rhythm early was key to his productivity."

• Dave DuFour (20:09): "Jalen had a complete game with six assists, four rebounds, three steals, and two forced turnovers."

Kelly Eco praises Green's growth, highlighting his improved defensive capabilities and increased confidence, which have made him a pivotal figure for the Rockets.

5. Physicality in the NBA Playoffs: Is It Too Much?

The hosts engage in a lively debate about the heightened physicality observed in the playoffs, questioning whether the intensity has crossed the line into being detrimental.

• Dave DuFour (07:54): "Have we gotten to the point where the playoffs have gotten too physical? It was from physical play, not a dirty play."

• Zena Keita (09:22): "Physicality is a factor. The pace slows down, leading to more half-court offenses where physical play is more prominent."

• Esfandiar Baraheni (10:15): "It's hard to answer if it's too physical because injuries are always a factor in intense postseason play."

The discussion underscores the balance between maintaining competitive intensity and ensuring player safety, with references to recent on-court altercations and the role of referees in managing the game's physical aspects.

6. The Role of Officiating in Playoff Physicality

A critical examination of how referees influence the physical nature of playoff games is undertaken, with the hosts suggesting that inconsistent officiating may exacerbate on-court tensions.

• Mike (10:46): "The officiating needs to be tighter. Technical fouls down the stretch can spiral things out of control."

• Zena Keita (12:26): "Where is the line between physical play and altercations? Officials play a crucial role in maintaining this balance."

The hosts argue that stricter and more consistent enforcement of rules could mitigate unnecessary physical confrontations, thereby preserving the game's integrity.

7. Kelly Eco’s Insights on the Rockets’ Strategy

Kelly Eco offers an in-depth analysis of the Rockets' aggressive strategy and how it serves as both a strength and a potential vulnerability.

• Kelly Eco (15:31): "The Rockets like to get physical because it allows them to disrupt opponents' offensive flow. Their defensive aggression can blow up opposing offenses."

• Kelly Eco (21:11): "Jalen’s defensive improvement raises the team's ceiling, making them a formidable force when he locks in defensively."

Eco emphasizes the importance of the Rockets' physical defense in their recent successes and how Jalen Green's enhanced defensive play contributes to their overall strategy.

8. Future Implications and Game 3 Expectations

Looking ahead to Game 3, the hosts speculate on possible adjustments from both teams, considering Butler's injury and the Warriors' need to adapt without their star player.

• Dave DuFour (23:15): "If Jimmy's out, it really changes everything for the Warriors. They need to rethink their strategy."

• Kelly Eco (24:03): "The Warriors struggled with the Rockets' physicality, especially against the 131 zone. They need to find a counter to Houston's aggression."

The conversation suggests that both teams might need to adjust their tactics significantly, making Game 3 a pivotal moment in the series.

9. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a consensus that the Rockets-Warriors series exemplifies the intense physicality characteristic of the NBA playoffs. While this aggression enhances the competitiveness and entertainment value, it also brings to light concerns regarding player safety and the necessity for balanced officiating.

• Dave DuFour (25:08): "This series is so good. The physicality, I'm into it."

The hosts express enthusiasm for the upcoming Game 3, anticipating continued high-stakes competition and strategic adjustments from both teams.

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Notable Quotes with Attribution:

• Dave DuFour (03:13): "Jimmy always feels fine. It's more about pain tolerance at this point."
• Zena Keita (05:11): "Their bench unit is so fun offensively. They just hit a barrage of threes."
• Kelly Eco (17:29): "Jalen knew he had to bring his A-game and finding a rhythm early was key to his productivity."
• Mike (10:46): "Don't make it so that a foul is a foul. Let's just call it a foul instead of saying, you know, if."
• Kelly Eco (21:11): "Jalen’s defensive improvement raises the team's ceiling."
• Dave DuFour (25:08): "This series is so good. The physicality, I'm into it."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the topics covered without needing to listen to the podcast directly.

Transcript

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[Mike]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, the warriors lost a game and may have lost Jimmy Butler for Game 3. The Cavs and the Celtics have make it look easy so far. And S And I talk about all the physicality in the playoffs. Good morning everybody. Good morning.

[Sarah]

S. Good morning.

[Mike]

Kind of a bit of a bummer last night. Warriors Rockets. The Rockets get the win, which is, you know, it's not a bummer. The series is tied up one game a piece, you know, going back to the bay. But late in the first quarter, Jimmy Butler took a hard spill. They. They diagnosed him in the back with a pelvic contusion and he missed the rest of the game. S Is there any update on Jimmy Butler?

[Sarah]

Yeah, so Anthony Slater mentioned that Jimmy's gonna get a MRI tomorrow. He's actually flying back tonight, which is just showing the level of urgency here. The pelvic contusion like you mentioned, assuming the X rays were clean that point. Steve Kerr also said that Jimmy always feels fine. So it's more about pain tolerance at this point and seeing if there's anything else. But I mean, we'll see. Man, Jimmy, pelvic contusions for the warriors contagious. Yeah. What a strange thing. Steph Kaminga and now Jimmy dealing with pelvic contusions. Just please wear those pads.

[Mike]

You know, I would call that that's an effort injury though. You know what I mean? Like this, you know, he was going hard. I mean that kind of stuff happens. It was a nasty fall. Yeah.

[Sarah]

And by the way, I've seen a lot of talk about like it was that intentional? I. I definitely seen the replays. I don't think it was intentional at all. Yeah, it was just hustle and physicality.

[Mike]

Right. We're gonna go deep with Kelly Eco after the break. On the Rocket side of this, Jalen Green was awesome, especially as like we called him out for, for the game one. We were saying, totally, hey, this guy is like on some all NBA ballots. What's he gonna do?

[Sarah]

And the way he bounced back, man, that impressive. Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike]

Speaking of physicality, the Cavs and Celtics, all right, they're, they're facing a couple teams that like to get physical. And part of that is because they, they're calling card is defense. They can't really score, especially compared to The Cavaliers and Celtics, two of the best offenses in basketball. What do you think about how the Miami Heat came out against the Cavs? They jump out to that lead. They were trying to just, you know, hit him in the mouth and hope that they. That they staggered. But, I mean, the Cavs, like kind of a machine.

[Sarah]

Yeah, the cat. I mean, look, the Cavs in the first quarter scored 25 points. They scored 25 points in the first six minutes of the second quarter. That's the type of offense that this team can be like. They just exploded with their Ty Jerome.

[Mike]

Out there, and for some reason, it's just like it's jump starts.

[Sarah]

Guys just get involved. It's incredible to watch. Their bench unit is so fun offensively. They just, they hit a barrage of threes and that's the way Cleveland gets into it. But you're right, the physicality from Miami was the way that they got back into the game. I'm thinking about Davion Mitchell. It feels like I mentioned him on basically every podcast at this point, but he was awesome in that order to get them back up. He did have an on night and you know, the combination of Haywood Highsmith, who was knocking down his shots and being really physical. Bam. Adebayo, always constantly very physical with the way that he plays in the front court. So it's, it's the defensive side of the ball that these teams, both Orlando and Miami hang their hat on. It's just, it's tough to compete for Miami.

[Mike]

I mean, Cleveland just, they just attacked Kyler Hero, right? Like, I mean, he's a target and it's hard to cover up. Yeah, yeah, it's hard to cover that up. Let's wait to the Celtics in. In case you guys, you know, didn't know, Jason Tatum got injured in game one. He missed game two with the bone contusion in his wrist. He was a game time decision. It was actually kind of shocking. I assumed when we heard it was a pain tolerance thing. I really thought he would play, especially given that Joe Missoula was yelling at him to get up and, you know, they kind of have this, you know, this, this tough mindset.

[Sarah]

He's also a guy that doesn't miss games. Like, if you look through, he is a stay healthy.

[Mike]

He's a very tough and resilient player. So I was a little bit surprised. So, you know, he's actually hurting. Makes me think totally, you know, ahead to Game 3. But as when we were coming into the series, you actually mentioned, because we were talking about Jaylen Brown's knee. You said, you know, the Celtics could probably win this without Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown was awesome. And, and it looks like they could win this without Jason Tatum, so we might see the other guy get a break. But this was, this was probably Orlando's best chance to, to steal one. And outside of, you know, knocking the snot and blood out of Kristaps Porzingis, you know, they, they failed. I mean, this is, they're down.02 and, and look, I didn't expect them to win the game, right? But when Tatum was out, I thought they had a chance.

[Sarah]

You know, this was, this was their best chance. This was their best opportunity. And I don't know what Tatum status will be going forward with the series. Who knows how long that bone contusion in his wrist will be. But like, ultimately, I think that's more of a question for round two and how healthy he looks because it is on his shooting hand. That's part of, like, how he's going to be active. When you think about facing the Knicks or the Pistons in round two, and I, I, I think that's more of a question for the second round, but for this series, you know.

[Mike]

Yeah, you come back against the Pistons, there's another physical team.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Mike]

Yeah. Okay, let me ask you this, because we know that the playoffs, you get to turn it up a notch. You get to be more, more handsy, you know, Totally. Have, have we gotten to the point where the playoffs have gotten too physical? I mean, we have. You know, look, the Jimmy Butler injury, it, it came from physicality. It wasn't a dirty play. You know, obviously the, the entire Warriors Rockets game was physical.

[Sarah]

It's, it's a fight.

[Mike]

Gundy's on the broadcast essentially saying if he had been allowed to guard Steph Curry like that, they would have beaten the warriors every single time. And he's right. I mean, he's grabbed around the waist. I mean, Jalen Green had a, had a, a nice steal on Steph, but he grabs him around the waist. Tari Eason, obviously super physical as a defender. Jason Tatum, you know, the play he gets injured on, I mean. Right, right. Yeah. Is it too physical?

[Sarah]

I think too physical is a tough line. Like, it's hard to answer the fact that this is too physical because ultimately we've seen it with every postseason where injuries are a factor. Physicality is a factor. The pace slows down, so teams are playing more half court offense versus transition offense where there's less opportunities to be as physical. I think that plays into the fact that it's physical. The other thing is, if you look at the way some of these teams, and especially referees are officiating these games.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

It's more about letting things go. Does that actually impact. And this is a good question for you, because I know you've seen it from a coaching perspective. How much does that bleed into what happens on the court? Because we saw it in Rockets, warriors, right? The first 10 minutes of that game, five minutes of that game was insanely physical, and it led into tons of, you know, scraps in the fourth quarter and hoopla and all that type of stuff. How does it play into the buildup of a game?

[Mike]

You know, I mean, exactly the way you think, right? It's. It's snowballs, right? Frustrations. You get frustration fouls. I mean, I've fouled people, like in basketball games, like in high school, when I didn't think I got a foul call. You know, Nikola Jokic was kind of famous for that, Right? He would have.

[Sarah]

We forgot the Norm Powell, Jamal Murray thing.

[Mike]

Right. I mean, there is a real thing, but I honestly, like, I think that it's not. I don't think it's too physical at all.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Mike]

I do think that there is a lot of stuff that the refs let go. It becomes a different sport when you get to the playoffs. Right. So I would just like to get it balanced out. You know, don't make it so that, you know, a foul is a foul. Let's just call it a foul instead of saying, you know, if. All right, we don't feel like it had that big of an effect, and we don't want to stop the flow of the game. I also don't want to stop the flow of the game. But it gets to the point where, like you said, it just. It does spiral kind of out of control.

[Sarah]

I do feel like we've seen more chippiness, though. I'm thinking, obviously, the Pacers and Bucks have a long history, but it does feel like any sort of. If a guy falls down, if there's a hard foul, all that type of stuff, they're immediately jumping out. There was a moment in this magic Celtics game where Al Horford trips on Kentavius, Caldwell Pope, and he just springs up. Al Horford, right, springs up, tries to chase after kcp.

[Mike]

I mean, there's.

[Sarah]

There's just a lot of these moments.

[Mike]

For times like this, though, you're right. We begged for times like this where these guys cared, where they. They weren't all, buddy, buddy, you know.

[Sarah]

Like, we have actually, that works well.

[Mike]

The rivalries are back. Like these guys. There's, there's on the court bad blood, which is great, I think, for the NBA now there is a, you know, finite amount of that that you can have before it does spill over. And you got to be careful. And we've seen that with the Rockets this year. We've seen that with the Pistons a couple of times. But we really did beg for this. And now that we've got it, I'm glad it's here. I do wish the officiating would just, you know, let's get it tighter. I don't want these guys getting technicals down the stretch of games.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Mike]

I just think that it, you know.

[Sarah]

Like, I like that the. They had, you know, Draymond Green and Fred Van Vliet, they had that moment where they were face to face. No text, nothing.

[Mike]

No, no. Eason got attack for throwing the towel, which, hey, you know what? Don't throw the towel. The warriors were about to do that anyway. Like, you know, save yourself the technical and let them throw in the towel when they pull Draymond out.

[Sarah]

No, I agree with you. I don't think the physicality is the issue here. I think it comes down to how much are the officials going to allow it.

[Mike]

Right.

[Sarah]

And where is that line to. To your point of, you know, what we're going to decide is physical versus what might end up in some sort of fight or altercation.

[Mike]

Honestly, every series, I mean, Lakers Wolves has something hundred percent every series except for Thunder Grizzlies, because the Grizzlies have just, they've just rolled over.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they're done.

[Mike]

It's.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

We're done with this segment. We'll be back after the break with Kelly Eco to talk about Jalen Green's ridiculous night.

[Kelly]

Foreign.

[John]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

[Mike]

If you're like us on the show, you're always on triple double watch. That's why we were impressed when we learned that Apple Card was posting numbers of their own.

[Sarah]

That's right. With Apple Card, you can earn 3% daily cash back at Apple and 2% back on everything you buy using Apple.

[Mike]

Pay, not to mention 1% back on everything else. That's a stat line that any fan can appreciate.

[Sarah]

Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app on your iPhone today and start using it right away with Apple Pay.

[John]

Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com as we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com/credit card.

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[Mike]

Well, the warriors lost Jimmy Butler in the first quarter and then lost the game to the Rockets. Now the series is even one to one. Here to talk about it, Kelly Eco. He covers the Rockets for us over at the Athletic. Kelly, this series, I think if I was gonna pick one word to describe it so far, besides entertaining, it would be physical. Extremely physical. We saw, you know, Jimmy Butler obviously had it was a hard fall, but nothing dirty. But it was from physical play. Draymond Green obviously getting in the mix with Fred Van Vliet and Dylan Brooks and the way they're guarding Steph Curry physical enough that Stan Van Gundy's calling it out on the broadcast. You were talking to Eme Adoka about this after game. What did he have to say about it and what do you think about the physicality?

[Kelly]

Yeah, IME kind of said, you know, this is the identity that their Rockets have built, you know, over the past two seasons. This is who they are. They're going to be a team that likes to muck things up. They like to get physical. They enjoy that. They thrive off of it because it allows them to. As long as the officiating is in their favor, it allows them to, to, to thrive and be the best version of themselves. Obviously, this is a team that's pretty up and down offensively, but defensively, if they can get into you physically at the point of attack, they can blow up your actions. Now it becomes a battle of wits. And as you saw in game two, technical fouls, flag and fouls, scuffles, dust ups. That's kind of the game they enjoy because it takes the air out of the room. And I think for this Rockets team, especially if you look at how they've been able to defend Curry tonight, being able to Be aggressive at the point of attack, not letting him get free off of those actions that he's thrived on for over a decade. You can kind of see where the Rockets can find their advantages now obviously heading into game three, there are going to be some counters to those and there's going to be some changes. But I think as far as this series remains chippy and competitive, the Rockets have that in their back pocket.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I think this physical play obviously lends to a really, it's favoring the Rockets. Right. I think back to a quote Davion Mitchell had when the Raptors were facing the Cavaliers and he said, hey, they can't call every foul, you know, and like that sort of leans into what this Rockets team likes to do. But they also took care of business offensively. Jalen Green had a massive bounce back game, finished with 38 points, did so efficiently. You know, post game he mentioned that he thought maybe in game one some of the, the lights were brighter than he expected. But he bounced back in game two. What you see from Jalen in game.

[Kelly]

Two, I just saw confidence. Obviously this was pretty much the biggest game of their lives because if you go down 02 to warriors team this experienced, you're not getting control back in this series. So obviously from that perspective alone, Jalen knew he had to bring it his A game and he knew that. Finding a rhythm early. If you've watched Jalen over the years, that's the biggest key to having to seeing the games he has that are productive. When he gets cooking early, the Rockets kind of feed into him more. They allow him to progress and go through his reads and they play off of his aggression. And ironically enough, you know, that thing started early. Defensively he was locked in on Curry. He was in the passing ball, two.

[Mike]

Jumps balls in the game, two jump.

[Kelly]

Balls and just being aggressive as that lead a defender and that kind of fueled his offense because it gives you more juice, more energy to want to score and want to be that go to guy. And obviously, you know, given the kind of player he is and the kind of person he is, you understand that he's extremely confident in his own abilities. And this is the biggest time of the year where those big time players show up so impressive for him to come back and respond after, you know, the last five games, just where he was averaging, I think like 5.25 points a game and just not looking the kind of score that we know him to be. So for him to go and have that kind of performance, they really galvanized the group and now heading into game three, they should be full of confidence that they can have a similar type performance.

[Mike]

I'm glad you brought up his defense because he actually had a complete game. And I. And this gets lost sometimes with Jalen Green because they don't. They don't run things like other teams. So he's not a prototypical number one option. He doesn't stand out as a number one option unless you watch, you know, somewhere north of 60 Rockets games a year like, like we have. Right. And then you see, okay, he is the number one option. The problem is it falls apart when it doesn't work. And. But look at his game. I mean, he has six assists, four rebounds, three steals, the two force jump balls, and also was involved in so many of the traps and, and switches. I mean, this is the sort of thing that, you know, when you're thinking about a guy, does he develop into the number one guy? Like, the guy. I mean, how do you see what Jalen Green, you know, over the course of the season, not just tonight, because this guy had a really great year on a team that was a two seed in the West. What do you think about the way that, like, this season went for him and how do you see his career? You know, what's the difference between, like, now and when we started the year?

[Kelly]

I think the biggest thing now is trust. Trust in the coaching staff, that renewed sense of communication and honesty between those guys, and seeing the deficiencies in his game and where he needed to improve on defensively because, you know, early on, when IME first got to Houston, it was a common thing to take him out end of games whenever he needed to get a stop. Right? And as a player, your pride and ego is affected by that. You know, if that happens five, six, seven times, because, you know, in. In this day and age, that becomes a label on you. So, yeah, what Jalen did is have those hard talks with ime, have those hard talks with Ben Sullivan, the coaching staff, and, and figure out exactly what he was doing wrong defensively. And now you're seeing his tendencies are improved, his reaction time has improved, the overall IQ has improved. And because of his size and length and his speed, if he's able to lock in defensively, it really raises the ceiling more than anyone else on that roster because of what he can do offensively as well.

[Mike]

Right.

[Kelly]

And given his, I guess, his ceiling, you know, as a potential, you know, a one guy, these are the games that you have to show that your teammates can trust you in, because this is the first time all of you are going to the playoffs as the young core, it's going to be a lot of, you know, information that's going to be carried over to the offseason that will affect some of our decisions, you know, future contracts, stuff like that. It starts now. And credit to Jalen, he's put in the work behind the scenes to become that dependable player, especially on the defensive end. He's. He's worked hard to not be a liability on the end of the floor, and because of that, he's become a positive team defender. And as you saw in game two, when he's aggressive and he's spearheading that scheme, there's no telling what that team can do. So I think to kind of see his, to kind of forecast his projection, it's really hard to say because, you know, is this a one off or is this, you know, going to be a big moment of.

[Mike]

Was it coming out party?

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

Coming out party.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So. So I think it's, it's, it's a good thing for young players to kind of have those moments like tonight where you kind of feel good about yourself and you understand what it really takes to win at the highest level. It's not just about scoring 30 points 15 times in the month of March. You have to be able to lock in against the best of the best in a slugfest like tonight was.

[Sarah]

I honestly think this game, the way that he answered back was a testament to his ability to get to that level.

[Mike]

Right.

[Sarah]

You see, you can get to that height now. Now it's about doing it consistently and doing it at the highest level you possibly can. That's a huge step for him in his career too, which is massive. But moving into game three, you know, we obviously know that there's the Jimmy Butler question in this going to Golden State. What are you looking for? I guess adjustment wise from Houston's perspective in this game. Obviously, given the whole Jimmy situation is up in the air too.

[Kelly]

I think Steve Kerr talked about it, like, if Jimmy's out, it really changes everything. They have to rethink everything, which is very true, I think, for Houston. You know, given that they've been able to impose their will physically in this year, I think they're up, I think they're a plus 34 or 33 on the rebounds over this the last two games. Yeah, tonight they had almost, what, 20 more points in the paint than Golden State. And just from the eye test, like you're watching a team dominate, you know, them on both Ends of the floor with their physical abilities.

[Mike]

Right. So huge.

[Kelly]

I think if there's going to be a counter, I think if there's going to be a counter for Golden State, you know, they did have some success. I mean, you saw the 131 zone. The Rockets kind of struggled against that. And that goes back to their overall half.

[Mike]

They've been doing that all year. Right. Falling apart in fourth quarters as soon as teams throw the zone at them.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Mike]

How'd you feel about how they handled Kumingo coming out? Because that was a curveball. You know, Jimmy Butler goes down and Kuminga, nobody really expected him to play. How do you feel about how they adjusted when, when Kuminga hit the four?

[Kelly]

I think initially it kind of took them by surprise because, you know, Kaminga still has that size and speed as an impact player. I think the problem for, for, for Kaminga is that because you as a player, you need that rhythm as well. So, you know, it's obvious that Steve Kerr doesn't play him for certain reasons in terms of how he fits in with Jimmy and the other guys. And he's kind of like Pat Spencer.

[Sarah]

Gave them more problems, you know.

[Kelly]

Exactly. So I, I think it's, it's tough like when you have those kind of dark horse type players. Yeah, it's really hard to scheme for them because you're not sure with this warriors team who's going to step up now if Jimmy's not able to play Game three, who's going to be that next go to guys. It's going to be. Is it going to be pods? Is it going to be jk? Is it going to be Buddy?

[Mike]

If he'll get the shots up. Right?

[Kelly]

Someone has to.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I think if you were to look at it in a vacuum, it has to be Kaminga. But you know, who knows to see how they actually, I mean, look, he.

[Mike]

Had a good season against the Rockets. I mean he, he had some of his highest scoring outp games against the Rockets. And, and physically I think he matches up pretty well. And you know, we were talking, we, we could go on and on and on. We've already hit this a dozen times. But Kelly, thank you so much for hanging out. Look forward to seeing what, what you're writing ahead of game three and we'll see what happens. This series is so good. This is fun. The physicality, I'm into it. That's going to do it for the show, folks. For Kelly, Iko and esperahenny, I'm Dave DeFore and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.